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SRGVA67
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Re: Norwegian Seeks Another Round of Financing

Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:34 am

I can't see anyone in their right mind putting more money into this airline unless it will be completely restructured. The airline should cut it's operation down to European services out of Norway and get rid of it's longhaul operations out of other countries where nobody has waited for Norwegian to come along. I really can't understand why the Norwegian tax payer should help to save Norwegian's UK or other operations. Let it become a Norwegian flag carrier serving Norway's market requirements to Europe and it will have a chance to get more funds, if not, it 's simply throwing money into a bottomless pit
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Norwegian Seeks Another Round of Financing

Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:03 pm

They couldn’t make money in good times, I don’t get why they are worth saving.

Dropping fares and making routes accessible to more is great. But if you can’t operate a sustainable business on it, it isn’t worth it.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
Capricorn
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Re: Norwegian Seeks Another Round of Financing

Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:13 pm

Is anybody really surprised? Personally I don't see DY making it through the crisis. DY's LCC competitors (FR, U2, W6) are in way better shape and can probably survive the inevitable "fare war" that S21 will probably turn out to be. Additional with very low EU-US traffic, DY's main long haul market, and no change in sight, they have a big fat problem on their hands. The only future I can envision for Dy in near term is being an airline that mainly focuses on flights in and out of Norway, but that would require a massive downsizing. Or they will turn into the second coming of AZ, but I am not sure if the Norwegian government and taxpayer would like that.
 
f4f3a
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Re: Norwegian Seeks Another Round of Financing

Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:32 pm

With Vs pulling out of lgw and BA scaling back. It may be if they could hold on to next year they might be in a good position . A lot depends on how long this madness carries on though . Just impossible to run an airline with constantly changing restrictions at present
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Norwegian Seeks Another Round of Financing

Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:19 pm

It is only a matter of time before Norwegian collapses. Its business model, finances, structure are not meant for the pandemic (or post pandemic world). It was unprofitable for the most part before COVID19.
 
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LaunchDetected
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Re: Norwegian Seeks Another Round of Financing

Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:18 pm

Taxpayer money will be better invested in Wideroe to support remote cities.

https://www.lifeinnorway.net/wideroe-cu ... in-norway/
Caravelle lover
 
N1KE
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Re: Norwegian Seeks Another Round of Financing

Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:19 pm

Won’t be the first and won’t be the last to come back to begging bowl again. Surely when the last round of financials were completed the money men must have known this was going to be happening? Cannot believe they are unaware after doing a lot to save them last time. Hopefully they can get it sorted, but one day someone is going to say no and they will fold. Can hardly be doing customer confidence any good. Unfortunately it is a tough environment out there.
 
dstblj52
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Re: Norwegian Seeks Another Round of Financing

Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:20 pm

N1KE wrote:
Won’t be the first and won’t be the last to come back to begging bowl again. Surely when the last round of financials were completed the money men must have known this was going to be happening? Cannot believe they are unaware after doing a lot to save them last time. Hopefully they can get it sorted, but one day someone is going to say no and they will fold. Can hardly be doing customer confidence any good. Unfortunately it is a tough environment out there.

The majority of shareholders are aircraft leasing companies who have no other customers who want the planes right now but it makes no sense to keep Norwegian flying just to make payments so I suspect they're going to sell everything that isn't nailed down to keep the company paying leases as long as possible then filling for bankruptcy.
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Norwegian Seeks Another Round of Financing

Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:22 am

Opus99 wrote:
Norwegian says it needs another round of financing as we enter the winter season. Norwegian government was initially reluctant to back norwegian but did in the end. Will they get a second round?

Norwegian need all the financing they can get. But it will hardly make much difference to how the company will evolve.

Norwegian is no longer really a "norwegian" company. It is now mostly owned by its leasing companies, especially Chinese banks. They own the planes, and they will operate the company when it is cheaper for them to have Norwegian pay a small part of the leasing fees than just parking the planes in a dessert. The alternative - to place the planes with profitable airlines - does not exist for the time being due to the COVID crisis.

What money Norway taxpayers may dump on Norwegian, that will hardly influence the operation of the company. It will be a direct support of Chinese banks, and no more.

Norway should do something about it. It is not healthy for a country like Norway to have a substantial part of their physical infrastructure owned and run by foreign banks which are owned by a communist dictatorship placed on the opposite side of the globe. And it isn't needed at all. Norway has fully the economic power to have full control of her important air infrastructure. It is only a question about getting organized by true professionals, and not by adventurists like the original, former Norwegian leadership.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Norwegian Seeks Another Round of Financing

Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:01 am

prebennorholm wrote:
Norway should do something about it. It is not healthy for a country like Norway to have a substantial part of their physical infrastructure owned and run by foreign banks which are owned by a communist dictatorship placed on the opposite side of the globe. And it isn't needed at all. Norway has fully the economic power to have full control of her important air infrastructure. It is only a question about getting organized by true professionals, and not by adventurists like the original, former Norwegian leadership.


And Norway does. NAS isn't important air infrastructure - it's a money-losing hobby.

One needs to be careful about closing off foreign direct investment. Norway doesn't need the capital but it does need competition. It also needs places to invest the sovereign wealth fund.
 
Someone83
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:33 am

Norwegian never said they were fully financed when they refinanced this Spring. They always said that they would need more money later this year or early next. So not really anything new here
 
LJ
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:34 pm

Someone83 wrote:
Norwegian never said they were fully financed when they refinanced this Spring. They always said that they would need more money later this year or early next. So not really anything new here


Yet, it's now only 4 months after the restructuring. I agree, it fits the definition of "later this year", but I would guess many assumed that "later" would be Q4 2020, not end of August 2020. Moreover, if they need money now, one can almost assume a third round will be coming as well. It's not that Winter is highly profitable or cash generating for airlines.
 
Someone83
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:19 am

LJ wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
Norwegian never said they were fully financed when they refinanced this Spring. They always said that they would need more money later this year or early next. So not really anything new here


Yet, it's now only 4 months after the restructuring. I agree, it fits the definition of "later this year", but I would guess many assumed that "later" would be Q4 2020, not end of August 2020. Moreover, if they need money now, one can almost assume a third round will be coming as well. It's not that Winter is highly profitable or cash generating for airlines.


They haven't said they need the money today. So "later this year", still apply in that case
 
LJ
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:09 am

Someone83 wrote:
LJ wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
Norwegian never said they were fully financed when they refinanced this Spring. They always said that they would need more money later this year or early next. So not really anything new here


Yet, it's now only 4 months after the restructuring. I agree, it fits the definition of "later this year", but I would guess many assumed that "later" would be Q4 2020, not end of August 2020. Moreover, if they need money now, one can almost assume a third round will be coming as well. It's not that Winter is highly profitable or cash generating for airlines.


They haven't said they need the money today. So "later this year", still apply in that case


The CEO and CFO are sending somewhat conflicting information. The CEO apparantly mentioned that the financing has to be completed in the autumn whereas the CFO mentioned that he needed the money for the next 6 - 7 months. Though the first does not exclude the latter, they do seem very keen on completing the financing as soon as possible, which points to a sense of urgency (unless they think that the situation on the capital markets will be coming less favourable soon). Then again, I probably read too much in the statement of their CEO.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/norwegian-air-aims-secure-more-105736995.html
 
a350lover
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:45 pm

LJ wrote:


They mark 2022 to be back with “full capacity”. Maybe too optimistic? Have they opened any other crew base apart from OSL yet?
 
LJ
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Re: DY Financial Discussion - 2020

Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:15 pm

a350lover wrote:
LJ wrote:


They mark 2022 to be back with “full capacity”. Maybe too optimistic? Have they opened any other crew base apart from OSL yet?


They mean full capacity in accordance with the new plan and start towards that goal as of Q2 2021.

Norwegian aims to gradually rebuild operations from the second quarter of next year, albeit on a smaller scale than before the crisis, hoping to reach full capacity in 2022.


(my emphasis)
 
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mercure1
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:20 pm

Norwegian opened for booking 6 routes to the USA from Paris CDG for summer 2021 - AUS, BOS, DEN, JFK, LAX, MCO.

https://www.air-journal.fr/2020-10-26-n ... 23509.html
mercure f-wtcc
 
a350lover
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:59 pm

8 routes on sale from Gatwick: SFO, MIA, JFK , MCO, BOS, LAX, DEN, AUS. JFK will see up to 3x/daily. Didn't notice when exactly they put them on sale. Do you think Norwegian could make some money with the leisure/VFR traffic UK-USA in 2021?

No routes from/to BCN or FCO.
 
CALMSP
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:02 pm

a350lover wrote:
8 routes on sale from Gatwick: SFO, MIA, JFK , MCO, BOS, LAX, DEN, AUS. JFK will see up to 3x/daily. Didn't notice when exactly they put them on sale. Do you think Norwegian could make some money with the leisure/VFR traffic UK-USA in 2021?

No routes from/to BCN or FCO.


given what's transpiring right now in the UK, I'd say no. But, COVID is going to go away soon based on comments from a presidential candidate here in the US, so, if thats all cleared up by February, maybe.
 
airsmiles
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:19 pm

a350lover wrote:
8 routes on sale from Gatwick: SFO, MIA, JFK , MCO, BOS, LAX, DEN, AUS. JFK will see up to 3x/daily. Didn't notice when exactly they put them on sale. Do you think Norwegian could make some money with the leisure/VFR traffic UK-USA in 2021?

No routes from/to BCN or FCO.


More to the point, how many passengers would risk their money booking tickets in advance with an almost bankrupt airline?
 
TC957
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:00 pm

airsmiles wrote:
a350lover wrote:
8 routes on sale from Gatwick: SFO, MIA, JFK , MCO, BOS, LAX, DEN, AUS. JFK will see up to 3x/daily. Didn't notice when exactly they put them on sale. Do you think Norwegian could make some money with the leisure/VFR traffic UK-USA in 2021?

No routes from/to BCN or FCO.


More to the point, how many passengers would risk their money booking tickets in advance with an almost bankrupt airline?

That's just it - if car rental or accommodation is being booked along with any Norwegian flights best use a tour operator or travel agents that's fully ATOL bonded for financial protection.
 
Blerg
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:49 pm

I have not been following Norwegian for a while now. What happened to their finances and ownership? Who came to their rescue in the end?
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:40 am

Blerg wrote:
I have not been following Norwegian for a while now. What happened to their finances and ownership? Who came to their rescue in the end?

Since six months ago Norwegian has been controlled by its leasing companies, who are new majority shareholders, with BOC Aviation up front. Major debts were converted into new shares. Former owners are either out or converted into minority shareholders without any control.

BOC Aviation is a department of BOC, or Bank of China, a major bank owned and run by the communist government of China.

Somehow it would be relevant to change company name from Norwegian into Chinese, but that will hardly happen.

I doubt that the new Norwegian can go bankrupt. They will not be able to build new major debt in western countries, fuel companies and such will demand payment up front. Consequently an incentive for a bankruptcy cannot be created when new debt can only be created as loan from the major owners.

The leasing companies will keep Norwegian afloat as long as it is better for them to collect a little revenue than to park ALL the planes in a desert, awaiting the COVID crisis to go away so they can sell or lease the planes on commercial terms to other airline companies.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
CALMSP
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Sat Nov 07, 2020 2:27 am

If anything, Norwegian should focus on the core of LAX/ORD/JFK/MIA/MCO only for the time being, moving into secondary markets like DEN/AUS, etc., its simply not going to be there for a while.
 
Blerg
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Sat Nov 07, 2020 6:40 am

prebennorholm wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I have not been following Norwegian for a while now. What happened to their finances and ownership? Who came to their rescue in the end?

Since six months ago Norwegian has been controlled by its leasing companies, who are new majority shareholders, with BOC Aviation up front. Major debts were converted into new shares. Former owners are either out or converted into minority shareholders without any control.

BOC Aviation is a department of BOC, or Bank of China, a major bank owned and run by the communist government of China.

Somehow it would be relevant to change company name from Norwegian into Chinese, but that will hardly happen.

I doubt that the new Norwegian can go bankrupt. They will not be able to build new major debt in western countries, fuel companies and such will demand payment up front. Consequently an incentive for a bankruptcy cannot be created when new debt can only be created as loan from the major owners.

The leasing companies will keep Norwegian afloat as long as it is better for them to collect a little revenue than to park ALL the planes in a desert, awaiting the COVID crisis to go away so they can sell or lease the planes on commercial terms to other airline companies.


Interesting, thank you. I had no idea they basically became a Chinese carrier!
 
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reidar76
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Sat Nov 07, 2020 11:42 am

Blerg wrote:
prebennorholm wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I have not been following Norwegian for a while now. What happened to their finances and ownership? Who came to their rescue in the end?

Since six months ago Norwegian has been controlled by its leasing companies, who are new majority shareholders, with BOC Aviation up front. Major debts were converted into new shares. Former owners are either out or converted into minority shareholders without any control.

BOC Aviation is a department of BOC, or Bank of China, a major bank owned and run by the communist government of China.

Somehow it would be relevant to change company name from Norwegian into Chinese, but that will hardly happen.

I doubt that the new Norwegian can go bankrupt. They will not be able to build new major debt in western countries, fuel companies and such will demand payment up front. Consequently an incentive for a bankruptcy cannot be created when new debt can only be created as loan from the major owners.

The leasing companies will keep Norwegian afloat as long as it is better for them to collect a little revenue than to park ALL the planes in a desert, awaiting the COVID crisis to go away so they can sell or lease the planes on commercial terms to other airline companies.


Interesting, thank you. I had no idea they basically became a Chinese carrier!


BOC Aviation owned by end of 2Q 11.9% of Norwegian, hardly in any controlling position. Here is a complete list of the top 20 owners: https://www.norwegian.no/globalassets/i ... q-2020.pdf

When the Q3 report is published, BOC Aviations position will have declined due to Norwegian issuing more new shares. That's how they get liquidity to survive. Norwegian is currently in hibernation mode, basically only doing domestic flying in Norway.

And of course Norwegian can go bankrupt. The leasing companies still owns their aircraft and they didn't put up any fresh cash, only converted unpaid leasing fees to shares, so they aren't risking anything.

The best hope for survival of Norwegian is the expected massiv compensation from Boeing. With the help of the major leasing companies, Norwegian is taking Boeing to court over the 737 MAX and 787 grounding (Boeing Gold Care for the RR engines).
 
a350lover
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:42 pm

prebennorholm wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I have not been following Norwegian for a while now. What happened to their finances and ownership? Who came to their rescue in the end?

Since six months ago Norwegian has been controlled by its leasing companies, who are new majority shareholders, with BOC Aviation up front. Major debts were converted into new shares. Former owners are either out or converted into minority shareholders without any control.

BOC Aviation is a department of BOC, or Bank of China, a major bank owned and run by the communist government of China.

Somehow it would be relevant to change company name from Norwegian into Chinese, but that will hardly happen.

I doubt that the new Norwegian can go bankrupt. They will not be able to build new major debt in western countries, fuel companies and such will demand payment up front. Consequently an incentive for a bankruptcy cannot be created when new debt can only be created as loan from the major owners.

The leasing companies will keep Norwegian afloat as long as it is better for them to collect a little revenue than to park ALL the planes in a desert, awaiting the COVID crisis to go away so they can sell or lease the planes on commercial terms to other airline companies.


Can Norwegian mean for big leasing enterprises like BOC some sort of experiment? How "big" could be Norwegian back once EU reopens? Do you see them getting back to grow in Spain with as many bases as they used to operate until last March?
 
a350lover
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:36 am

Alex Macheras just posted on his Twitter account

"Norwegian's Govt has announced that Norwegian will not receive further financial support to the airline".

https://twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/13 ... 36321?s=20
 
Blerg
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:56 am

a350lover wrote:
Alex Macheras just posted on his Twitter account

"Norwegian's Govt has announced that Norwegian will not receive further financial support to the airline".

https://twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/13 ... 36321?s=20


What does this mean for them? How much longer can they last without a new cash injection?
 
M564038
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:08 am

That means that after 15 years of posts wrongfully and uninformed predicting their immidiate demise on this and other aviation forums, they are now in REAL trouble.
This is the first time I actually believe they might be going under.

The big difference, and this has been the thing protecting Norwegian, is domestic competition in Norway. Wizz started yesterday, Braathen is maybe starting up, that means Norwegian is no longer a sacred cow of Norwegian infrastructure and can be sacrificed.

Blerg wrote:
a350lover wrote:
Alex Macheras just posted on his Twitter account

"Norwegian's Govt has announced that Norwegian will not receive further financial support to the airline".

https://twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/13 ... 36321?s=20


What does this mean for them? How much longer can they last without a new cash injection?
Last edited by M564038 on Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Mortyman
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:09 am

Blerg wrote:
a350lover wrote:
Alex Macheras just posted on his Twitter account

"Norwegian's Govt has announced that Norwegian will not receive further financial support to the airline".

https://twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/13 ... 36321?s=20


What does this mean for them? How much longer can they last without a new cash injection?



Not for long. However the current government is under a lot of pressure from other political parties and labour unions to help. We will have to see.
 
Asiaflyer
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:30 am

The appetite to throw money into bleeding airlines is one of the most astonishing things in business, but now it looks like even Norwegian is coming closer to the end of the road. Who will keep financing now?
In my opinion it’s better to close the shop now by the investors and creditors than keep loosing even more money gong forward. Finally a good call by the Norwegian government.
 
Blerg
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:48 am

I fear they overexpanded over the past years, they were all over the place hoping they would disrupt an already well-established market. They should have focused on the Norwegian market and should have built a megahub in Oslo in stead of going around Europe opening bases in extremely competitive airports like Gatwick, Barcelona...
 
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Mortyman
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:35 pm

This is not really just about Norwegian but the travel industry in general in Norway. The Norwegian government haven't done enough to help the industry I think.
 
bennett123
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:07 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54841427

Frankly, the remaining options seem rather limited.
 
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vhtje
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:18 pm

Who knows? The announcement by Pfizer/BioNTech a couple of hours ago of the 90% effective COVID-19 vaccine may cause a rapid recovery in sentiment in the aviation sector. Already, IAG shares have jumped 40%, Rolls Royce plc by 36%.

That light at the end of the tunnel may change the appetite for further investment in Norwegian.

(Note: that I wrote "rapid recovery in sentiment in the aviation sector" not "rapid recovery of the aviation sector" - I believe the aviation sector will remain well down in demand until well unto 2022. But market sentiment isn't a measure of underlying performance, we all know that.)
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
Someone83
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:07 pm

Norwegian just announced they are furlough 1600 employees and reducing the active fleet from 21 to 6 aircraft, basically going back to a scaled down and minimum Norwegian domestic network, similar to the one in April/May
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:10 pm

At what point do lessors decide to start reclaiming their aircraft for non-payment of fees ?
 
minilinde
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:40 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
At what point do lessors decide to start reclaiming their aircraft for non-payment of fees ?

Since the lessors own DY, I expect this to happen as soon as markets are recovering for real. When lessors can get real money from another customer.
Types flown: A220, A318, A319, A320, A321, A32N, A333, A343, A359, A380, AT42, AT72, B717, B733, B735, B736, B737, B738, B739, B744, B748, B763, B772, B773, B788, B789, C550, CRJ2, CRJ9, DH4D, F50, ERJ190, MD80s/90, RJ100
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:33 pm

Someone83 wrote:
Norwegian just announced they are furlough 1600 employees and reducing the active fleet from 21 to 6 aircraft, basically going back to a scaled down and minimum Norwegian domestic network, similar to the one in April/May

Yeah, that seems to be the case. All DY flights touching Danish airports (about a dozen flights/day) starting Tuesday morning have been cancelled.

Most Danish flights were on the domestic CPH-AAL route in competition with SAS and DAT (Danish Air Transport). Hopefully not many have prebooked at DY - at least they cannot claim that they were not warned in advance.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
jayunited
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:06 am

According to this article in Airways Magazine they are stating the government declined to offer more support because DY promised to shrink operations but is now planning on resuming as many routes as possible. It looks like DY may have led the government to believe they would become a small domestic carrier to secure funding 6 months ago. However according to Airways Magazine the government now believes DY would use the money to expand and bring back flights instead of focusing on the domestic market like they promised.

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/governm ... egian-air/
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:53 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
At what point do lessors decide to start reclaiming their aircraft for non-payment of fees ?


Carriers have a lot of expenses beyond leasing payments for aircraft. When they can't pay staff or buy fuel things will end very quickly.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:55 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
At what point do lessors decide to start reclaiming their aircraft for non-payment of fees ?


Two of the B789s (one of them the former UNICEF special) are already bound for Neos.

Norwegian should really focus on short-haul going forward and give up the Dreamliner operation. The question is: who could actually want those frames? There will be a wide-body glut on the back side of this.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:13 am

AFAIK, Norwegian is paying some of the lease fees due to the lessors, but not all of the money due. The airline is therefore operating at the lessors' discretion - in the knowledge that aircraft can (I assume) be recaled at short notice. Presumably the money that is being paid is more than the depreciation cost as well as the accrued cost of any upcoming maintenance checks - if not lessors would have recalled the aircraft and put them into storage.
However.... Norwegian is currently a functioning company and no application has been made to a bankruptcy court. If there is material doubt over Norwegian as a going concern... is it optimal for a lessor to recall their aircraft, just to have certainty that the aircraft can be flown to somewhere other than Norway and put into storage, safe from the reach of any bankruptcy court that could take its time deciding what to do with any borrowed aircraft ? Effectively, sacrifice the modest lease revenue, in return for gaining certainty over legal risk in the expectation that the modest lease revenue will end very soon
 
StinkyPinky
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:37 am

jayunited wrote:
According to this article in Airways Magazine they are stating the government declined to offer more support because DY promised to shrink operations but is now planning on resuming as many routes as possible. It looks like DY may have led the government to believe they would become a small domestic carrier to secure funding 6 months ago. However according to Airways Magazine the government now believes DY would use the money to expand and bring back flights instead of focusing on the domestic market like they promised.

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/governm ... egian-air/


Wonder if that's what they just did to try and get more funding... "Norwegian forced to furlough an additional 1,600 employees following the government’s decision not to give further support"

https://media.uk.norwegian.com/pressrel ... rt-3049635
 
a350lover
Posts: 989
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:51 am

Many had doubts about the lowcost model of Norwegian way before the corona crisis exploded.
Many still have doubts about it in a much worse scenario like current times.
Do Norwegian need all that planned long haul network from Gatwick and Paris to the USA?
Wouldn't make some more sense for them just to shrink the long haul plans (at least for the short-mid term) and focus on their short-haul most profitable routes before corona? Do they really know which ones are those?

I always had the feeling DY was Kjos' dream, more like an AvGeek dream rather than a serious business.
 
IrishLessor
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:44 am

Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:31 pm

Few airlines have made serious inroads in the Scandinavian markets outside of their local airlines. Wizz going on may be another story. However my sense is that Wizz have their eyes set on LGW. Should they precipitate and adverse consequences in the Norway market for Norwegian, it could hold the key to getting a big portfolio of slots at LGW. Should Norwegian fold Wizz will be in like a shot securing the South London Market and they will want to keep Ryanair out and then focus the battle with easyJet...
 
dstblj52
Posts: 727
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:36 am

a350lover wrote:
Many had doubts about the lowcost model of Norwegian way before the corona crisis exploded.
Many still have doubts about it in a much worse scenario like current times.
Do Norwegian need all that planned long haul network from Gatwick and Paris to the USA?
Wouldn't make some more sense for them just to shrink the long haul plans (at least for the short-mid term) and focus on their short-haul most profitable routes before corona? Do they really know which ones are those?

I always had the feeling DY was Kjos' dream, more like an AvGeek dream rather than a serious business.

lowcost long haul low cost doesn't norwegian still has the same fundamental problem where to put planes in the off season that no one has yet answered and until you can find an answer its not a viable business
 
VictorKilo
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:39 am

Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Wed Nov 11, 2020 12:50 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
At what point do lessors decide to start reclaiming their aircraft for non-payment of fees ?


Two of the B789s (one of them the former UNICEF special) are already bound for Neos.

Norwegian should really focus on short-haul going forward and give up the Dreamliner operation. The question is: who could actually want those frames? There will be a wide-body glut on the back side of this.


I expect the market when it returns will be robust for the latest models of WB like Norwegian’s Dreamliners but far less so for older WB like the 77E. So lessor repossession makes more sense in this case than it would for other airframes.
 
FluidFlow
Posts: 1083
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:39 am

Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:19 pm

VictorKilo wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
At what point do lessors decide to start reclaiming their aircraft for non-payment of fees ?


Two of the B789s (one of them the former UNICEF special) are already bound for Neos.

Norwegian should really focus on short-haul going forward and give up the Dreamliner operation. The question is: who could actually want those frames? There will be a wide-body glut on the back side of this.


I expect the market when it returns will be robust for the latest models of WB like Norwegian’s Dreamliners but far less so for older WB like the 77E. So lessor repossession makes more sense in this case than it would for other airframes.


RR Powered frames as well? Their history is not the best and the problem is still not 100% solved. There are definitely not enough engines out there, Lightsaber might know if the actual problem is fixed though.

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