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MIflyer12
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:02 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
If there is material doubt over Norwegian as a going concern...


There is no need for an 'if' there. The CEO has repeatedly noted things are dire.

davidjohnson6 wrote:
is it optimal for a lessor to recall their aircraft, just to have certainty that the aircraft can be flown to somewhere other than Norway and put into storage, safe from the reach of any bankruptcy court that could take its time deciding what to do with any borrowed aircraft ?


What's the evidence that courts in countries with bankruptcy proceedings firmly established in rule of law (as a shorthand, let's say countries of the OECD), have a problem quickly peeling off aircraft assets? Aeromexico and LATAM lease returns have proceeded without drama even in COVID. Where would NAS file for reorganization or liquidation? Do you think Norwegian/Irish/UK/U.S. courts would struggle?
 
SIVB
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:04 pm

jayunited wrote:
According to this article in Airways Magazine they are stating the government declined to offer more support because DY promised to shrink operations but is now planning on resuming as many routes as possible. It looks like DY may have led the government to believe they would become a small domestic carrier to secure funding 6 months ago. However according to Airways Magazine the government now believes DY would use the money to expand and bring back flights instead of focusing on the domestic market like they promised.

https://airwaysmag.com/airlines/governm ... egian-air/


This is interesting and should not be overlooked. If the info is correct, DY could find financing from the national government as long as the airline commits to domestic services. It makes sense that the Norwegian government cuts financial support if those resources are used elsewhere rather than Norway itself.

In any case, I believe that the government won’t reverse this decision and funding for DY will be hard to find. Even the lessors that own a share of the company are there because they can’t find clients for their aircraft. Without Covid19, I believe those lessors would have withdrawn their support for DY long ago.

Time will tell, I feel sorry for the employees that are losing (and will lose) their jobs. My deepest sympathy for them in these hard times.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:18 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
is it optimal for a lessor to recall their aircraft, just to have certainty that the aircraft can be flown to somewhere other than Norway and put into storage, safe from the reach of any bankruptcy court that could take its time deciding what to do with any borrowed aircraft ?


What's the evidence that courts in countries with bankruptcy proceedings firmly established in rule of law (as a shorthand, let's say countries of the OECD), have a problem quickly peeling off aircraft assets? Aeromexico and LATAM lease returns have proceeded without drama even in COVID. Where would NAS file for reorganization or liquidation? Do you think Norwegian/Irish/UK/U.S. courts would struggle?


I don't think the courts would make an unjust decision, but I do think it might take a considerable amount of time for the courts to make a decision for four reasons.
A) Covid and social distancing means things take more time. It seems that Europe is more strict on social distancing than the USA which increases the risk of court delay
B) Norwegian has a very complicated legal structure which increases the time courts needs to examine everything
C) Norwegian is based in multiple jurisdictions which increases the complexity and thus decisions from more than 1 court may be needed - again adding delay
D) Law is never drafted perfectly - there is always the risk that a court makes a surprise decision for some obscure reason
 
debonair
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:25 pm

Someone83 wrote:
Norwegian just announced they are furlough 1600 employees and reducing the active fleet from 21 to 6 aircraft, basically going back to a scaled down and minimum Norwegian domestic network, similar to the one in April/May


Just to clarify the situation.
These 6 aircraft operating are Norwegian Air Shuttle (DY) ONLY and NOT the other branches like Norwegian Air UK (DI) or Norwegian Air International (D8), isn't it?!

Something strange about their summer schedule from LGW. norwegian is still selling tickets to the US, flight numbers are "DI" for Norwegian Air UK - however, proceeding the bookings, the information given is, that flights are "Operated by Norwegian Air Shuttle The 787 Dreamliner"... AFAIK Norwegian Air Shuttle is is not operating a single B787 - only Norwegian Long Haul (DU), Norwegian Air Sweden (LE) and Norwegian Air UK (DI). So what is all about, how can it be!? Will the B787 fleet transferred to Norwegian Air Shuttle (DY) anytime soon?!
 
skipness1E
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:47 pm

debonair wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
Norwegian just announced they are furlough 1600 employees and reducing the active fleet from 21 to 6 aircraft, basically going back to a scaled down and minimum Norwegian domestic network, similar to the one in April/May


Just to clarify the situation.
These 6 aircraft operating are Norwegian Air Shuttle (DY) ONLY and NOT the other branches like Norwegian Air UK (DI) or Norwegian Air International (D8), isn't it?!

Something strange about their summer schedule from LGW. norwegian is still selling tickets to the US, flight numbers are "DI" for Norwegian Air UK - however, proceeding the bookings, the information given is, that flights are "Operated by Norwegian Air Shuttle The 787 Dreamliner"... AFAIK Norwegian Air Shuttle is is not operating a single B787 - only Norwegian Long Haul (DU), Norwegian Air Sweden (LE) and Norwegian Air UK (DI). So what is all about, how can it be!? Will the B787 fleet transferred to Norwegian Air Shuttle (DY) anytime soon?!


I think they were on the DY codes anyway? Was DU ever actually used/
 
Someone83
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:48 pm

debonair wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
Norwegian just announced they are furlough 1600 employees and reducing the active fleet from 21 to 6 aircraft, basically going back to a scaled down and minimum Norwegian domestic network, similar to the one in April/May


Just to clarify the situation.
These 6 aircraft operating are Norwegian Air Shuttle (DY) ONLY and NOT the other branches like Norwegian Air UK (DI) or Norwegian Air International (D8), isn't it?!


Yes, this is DY - Norwegian Air Shuttle

Norwegian was anyway in the process before Corona to simplify their operating structure. Mainly using their Norwegian and Swedish companies, at least for their European ops
 
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bluefltspecial
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:07 am

debonair wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
Norwegian just announced they are furlough 1600 employees and reducing the active fleet from 21 to 6 aircraft, basically going back to a scaled down and minimum Norwegian domestic network, similar to the one in April/May


Just to clarify the situation.
These 6 aircraft operating are Norwegian Air Shuttle (DY) ONLY and NOT the other branches like Norwegian Air UK (DI) or Norwegian Air International (D8), isn't it?!

Something strange about their summer schedule from LGW. norwegian is still selling tickets to the US, flight numbers are "DI" for Norwegian Air UK - however, proceeding the bookings, the information given is, that flights are "Operated by Norwegian Air Shuttle The 787 Dreamliner"... AFAIK Norwegian Air Shuttle is is not operating a single B787 - only Norwegian Long Haul (DU), Norwegian Air Sweden (LE) and Norwegian Air UK (DI). So what is all about, how can it be!? Will the B787 fleet transferred to Norwegian Air Shuttle (DY) anytime soon?!


Yes, those 6 B737 aircraft were operating under the DY certificate in Norway.

The 787 aircraft ops are a little more complex due to the legal structure. Precovid Norwegian had both NAX (DY) and NUK (DI) operating between JFK-LGW. They had a a good amount of crew "crosstrained" in both bases, for multi certificate operation, it was strange but it worked, as the aircraft and manuals had to line up in key areas to make it legal by EASA standards. Sometimes a DI flight was subbed out and operated as an inhouse "wetlease" by DY reg and crew/crosstrained crew, but still operated under the DI flight banner.
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olle
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:56 am

I know people flying Alicante Stockholm during the week that with hours notice got their flight cancelled.

I was lucky and got my money back from a cancelled flight in April last week. A few more days and I would probably have lost the money totally.
 
a350lover
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:43 am

bluefltspecial wrote:
debonair wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
Norwegian just announced they are furlough 1600 employees and reducing the active fleet from 21 to 6 aircraft, basically going back to a scaled down and minimum Norwegian domestic network, similar to the one in April/May


Just to clarify the situation.
These 6 aircraft operating are Norwegian Air Shuttle (DY) ONLY and NOT the other branches like Norwegian Air UK (DI) or Norwegian Air International (D8), isn't it?!

Something strange about their summer schedule from LGW. norwegian is still selling tickets to the US, flight numbers are "DI" for Norwegian Air UK - however, proceeding the bookings, the information given is, that flights are "Operated by Norwegian Air Shuttle The 787 Dreamliner"... AFAIK Norwegian Air Shuttle is is not operating a single B787 - only Norwegian Long Haul (DU), Norwegian Air Sweden (LE) and Norwegian Air UK (DI). So what is all about, how can it be!? Will the B787 fleet transferred to Norwegian Air Shuttle (DY) anytime soon?!


Yes, those 6 B737 aircraft were operating under the DY certificate in Norway.

The 787 aircraft ops are a little more complex due to the legal structure. Precovid Norwegian had both NAX (DY) and NUK (DI) operating between JFK-LGW. They had a a good amount of crew "crosstrained" in both bases, for multi certificate operation, it was strange but it worked, as the aircraft and manuals had to line up in key areas to make it legal by EASA standards. Sometimes a DI flight was subbed out and operated as an inhouse "wetlease" by DY reg and crew/crosstrained crew, but still operated under the DI flight banner.


Norwegian used all that mix of registrations to quickly expand and get the rights they needed in order to operate from place to place. Secondarily, it may have meant some cost saving in paying less taxes thanks to Irish registrations for instance. At some point, many other low cost airlines in Europe did the same (i.e Easyjet chose Austria to host and handle their EU AOC when Brexit started or Ryanair establishing Malta and Polish subsidiaries in a clear movement to keep costs down). For Norwegian it only ended up adding inefficiency and extra paperwork.
 
Wf789
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:51 pm

Bonds traded for 13% of face value today:
https://www.boerse-frankfurt.de/bond/no ... 7-25-15-22
 
olle
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:40 pm

Trading in Norwegian is stopped;

https://www.privataaffarer.se/norwegian ... pa-besked/


Share (Updated) Trading in the share in the Norwegian airline Norwegian was stopped on Wednesday afternoon on the Oslo Stock Exchange.

The stop is made while waiting for the company to issue a notice, the exchange operator writes in a statement.

The share was down 0.3 percent at the time of the stop.

Last week, the news came that Norwegian received no further support from the Norwegian state. The airline had to cancel all flights except Norwegian domestic routes and lay off an additional 1,600 employees.

Last week also saw Norwegian's interim report stating that the company burned NOK 1.6 billion during the third quarter and has NOK 3.4 billion left ahead of the winter season that CEO Jacob Schram warned could end the company.

The competitor SAS's share, which rose sharply after last week's gloomy announcement from Norwegian, continues to rise on Wednesday afternoon, awaiting statements from Norwegian. At 3 p.m., the stock was up about 7 percent.
 
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Dahlgardo
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:20 pm

so, apparently they are seeking bancruptcy protection and restructuring under Irish law, press conference at 1800 CET.
https://finans.dk/erhverv/ECE12571748/norwegian-skal-restruktureres-soeger-konkursbeskyttelse-i-irland/?st=1&ctxref=forside

they will continue to operate their fleet, and stock will still be traded
leave your nines at home and bring your skills to the battle
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:30 pm

Dahlgardo wrote:
so, apparently they are seeking bancruptcy protection and restructuring under Irish law, press conference at 1800 CET.
https://finans.dk/erhverv/ECE12571748/norwegian-skal-restruktureres-soeger-konkursbeskyttelse-i-irland/?st=1&ctxref=forside

they will continue to operate their fleet, and stock will still be traded

Once that happens, the ability to collect compensation for aircraft delivery delays and engine problems could be in play. On the one hand, bankrupt company could be argued in no need of planes and engines, and Boeings and RR's of this world could try to wiggle out of paying. On the other, the estate could insist that the problems actually caused the bankruptcy, and demand immediate settlement of all claims (threatening "contempt of court" for failure of immediate payment).
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MIflyer12
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:39 pm

Phosphorus wrote:
On the other, the estate could insist that the problems actually caused the bankruptcy, and demand immediate settlement of all claims (threatening "contempt of court" for failure of immediate payment).


Have courts ordered payment?
 
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Dahlgardo
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:48 pm

here is their own press release
https://media.dk.norwegian.com/pressreleases/norwegian-med-ny-reorganiseringsplan-soeger-beskyttelse-for-norwegian-air-international-og-arctic-aviation-assets-3052136

the bankruptcy process is for Norwegian Air International and Arctic Aviation Assets
leave your nines at home and bring your skills to the battle
 
Capricorn
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:59 pm

What are the chances of DY making it successfully through the bankruptcy process? Slim to none I guess. And at one point or another the creditors will just put an end to this, as they don't want the same procedure to occur every 6 to 9 months or so. DY went as far as they could in this crisis, but I fear only governmental support could guarantee DY's survival in this during this crisis. I am not sure how likely it is for the Norwegian government to change their position on state aid though.
 
M564038
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:02 pm

Expertds are saying todays news means a grace period for the entire organization of about 150 days.

Capricorn wrote:
What are the chances of DY making it successfully through the bankruptcy process? Slim to none I guess. And at one point or another the creditors will just put an end to this, as they don't want the same procedure to occur every 6 to 9 months or so. DY went as far as they could in this crisis, but I fear only governmental support could guarantee DY's survival in this during this crisis. I am not sure how likely it is for the Norwegian government to change their position on state aid though.
 
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Dahlgardo
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:11 pm

Capricorn wrote:
What are the chances of DY making it successfully through the bankruptcy process? Slim to none I guess. And at one point or another the creditors will just put an end to this, as they don't want the same procedure to occur every 6 to 9 months or so. DY went as far as they could in this crisis, but I fear only governmental support could guarantee DY's survival in this during this crisis. I am not sure how likely it is for the Norwegian government to change their position on state aid though.


Arctic Aviation is their aircraft holding entity.
No doubt they want to reduce debt and aircraft portfolio drastically in this entity.

They probably want get out of either their MAX or NEO commitments, or maybe even both.

The 787s have been a stone around their neck for a long time, so I hope they will take the opportunity and ditch them, and their long haul strategy too.
leave your nines at home and bring your skills to the battle
 
M564038
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:15 pm

The background pic on the press conference talking about restructuring towards the future was a 787.
So no.

Dahlgardo wrote:
Capricorn wrote:
What are the chances of DY making it successfully through the bankruptcy process? Slim to none I guess. And at one point or another the creditors will just put an end to this, as they don't want the same procedure to occur every 6 to 9 months or so. DY went as far as they could in this crisis, but I fear only governmental support could guarantee DY's survival in this during this crisis. I am not sure how likely it is for the Norwegian government to change their position on state aid though.


Arctic Aviation is their aircraft holding entity.
No doubt they want to reduce debt and aircraft portfolio drastically in this entity.

They probably want get out of either their MAX or NEO commitments, or maybe even both.

The 787s have been a stone around their neck for a long time, so I hope they will take the opportunity and ditch them, and their long haul strategy too.
 
skipness1E
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:47 pm

So this is D8? The Irish registered EU based subsidiary?
 
minilinde
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:06 pm

skipness1E wrote:
So this is D8? The Irish registered EU based subsidiary?


It’s NAI and their aircraft holding company (AAA), and thus is also their Norwegian (DY) involved. It’s all in chapter 11
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Phosphorus
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:01 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Phosphorus wrote:
On the other, the estate could insist that the problems actually caused the bankruptcy, and demand immediate settlement of all claims (threatening "contempt of court" for failure of immediate payment).


Have courts ordered payment?

That would logically be among first requests from DIP, no?
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jayunited
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:27 am

Dahlgardo wrote:
Capricorn wrote:
What are the chances of DY making it successfully through the bankruptcy process? Slim to none I guess. And at one point or another the creditors will just put an end to this, as they don't want the same procedure to occur every 6 to 9 months or so. DY went as far as they could in this crisis, but I fear only governmental support could guarantee DY's survival in this during this crisis. I am not sure how likely it is for the Norwegian government to change their position on state aid though.


Arctic Aviation is their aircraft holding entity.
No doubt they want to reduce debt and aircraft portfolio drastically in this entity.

They probably want get out of either their MAX or NEO commitments, or maybe even both.

The 787s have been a stone around their neck for a long time, so I hope they will take the opportunity and ditch them, and their long haul strategy too.



I think there are quite a few airlines willing to take some of those 787s off their hands as long as the engine issues have been addressed.

Everything that could go wrong since 2016 has gone wrong and now with Norway turning down their request for more funds DY has no choice except bankruptcy.

I agree they should focus on their short haul and operations for now and sunset their long haul operations for the time being.
 
LJ
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:26 pm

Dahlgardo wrote:
They probably want get out of either their MAX or NEO commitments, or maybe even both.
.


AFAIK they don't have any MAX commitments left. The 92 outstanding MAX were already cancelled (though I recall that Boeing just added them to the ASC 606 total).
 
jfk777
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:24 pm

Sad to see Covid kill such a promising airline that recreated a market into the UK from America Laker and then Virgin launched themselves on. Loved the partially Red 787 fleet.so sad to see it end here.
 
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vhtje
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:25 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Sad to see Covid kill such a promising airline that recreated a market into the UK from America Laker and then Virgin launched themselves on. Loved the partially Red 787 fleet.so sad to see it end here.


Has the obese woman actually sung her aria yet though?
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
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gdg9
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:27 pm

So in reality, its the holding company as well as DY, DI, and D8? And whatever other airlines they had going?
@dfwtower
 
mcdu
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:58 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Sad to see Covid kill such a promising airline that recreated a market into the UK from America Laker and then Virgin launched themselves on. Loved the partially Red 787 fleet.so sad to see it end here.


What is sad about a company that bled cash from the start, undercut markets with unsustainable pricing, hired employees through offshore schemes to prevent paying benefits and wages that are commensurate within the industry. This was a house of cards and those that worked for one of the many codes they created to usurp regulations and rules should have seen this coming. Let’s see if the other carriers are in the castaways from this operation when hiring resumes in the future.
 
UPNYGuy
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:48 pm

Would not surprise me to see B6 pick up some LGW slots.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:14 pm

mcdu wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Sad to see Covid kill such a promising airline that recreated a market into the UK from America Laker and then Virgin launched themselves on. Loved the partially Red 787 fleet.so sad to see it end here.


What is sad about a company that bled cash from the start, undercut markets with unsustainable pricing, hired employees through offshore schemes to prevent paying benefits and wages that are commensurate within the industry. This was a house of cards and those that worked for one of the many codes they created to usurp regulations and rules should have seen this coming. Let’s see if the other carriers are in the castaways from this operation when hiring resumes in the future.


I'm not a fan of Norwegian by any means, but lets be completely fair. They also hired loads of employees under better than fair conditions and contracts in Europe. Say what you want about all their malpractices, but they didn't try to undercut pilot salaries with salaries of $950 USD per month. Keep in mind that Norwegians demise has just left a void in the market, and Wizz Air (who pay their pilots that pitiful amount) just happens to have 20 A321XLRs on order. Good luck competing with that, airlines of the US...
 
airsmiles
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:33 pm

VSMUT wrote:
mcdu wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Sad to see Covid kill such a promising airline that recreated a market into the UK from America Laker and then Virgin launched themselves on. Loved the partially Red 787 fleet.so sad to see it end here.


What is sad about a company that bled cash from the start, undercut markets with unsustainable pricing, hired employees through offshore schemes to prevent paying benefits and wages that are commensurate within the industry. This was a house of cards and those that worked for one of the many codes they created to usurp regulations and rules should have seen this coming. Let’s see if the other carriers are in the castaways from this operation when hiring resumes in the future.


I'm not a fan of Norwegian by any means, but lets be completely fair. They also hired loads of employees under better than fair conditions and contracts in Europe. Say what you want about all their malpractices, but they didn't try to undercut pilot salaries with salaries of $950 USD per month. Keep in mind that Norwegians demise has just left a void in the market, and Wizz Air (who pay their pilots that pitiful amount) just happens to have 20 A321XLRs on order. Good luck competing with that, airlines of the US...


Norwegian may have created some jobs but let’s also be realistic that others with competitor airlines must have lost out due to them. The fact remains that new entrants like Norwegian (and WOW) just disrupt the market and eventually fail. They join a long list of other unsuccessful airlines who tried low-cost long-haul and failed. There be a gap in the market but does any airline really need passengers who only want to pay bargain basement fares?
 
VSMUT
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:43 pm

airsmiles wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
mcdu wrote:

What is sad about a company that bled cash from the start, undercut markets with unsustainable pricing, hired employees through offshore schemes to prevent paying benefits and wages that are commensurate within the industry. This was a house of cards and those that worked for one of the many codes they created to usurp regulations and rules should have seen this coming. Let’s see if the other carriers are in the castaways from this operation when hiring resumes in the future.


I'm not a fan of Norwegian by any means, but lets be completely fair. They also hired loads of employees under better than fair conditions and contracts in Europe. Say what you want about all their malpractices, but they didn't try to undercut pilot salaries with salaries of $950 USD per month. Keep in mind that Norwegians demise has just left a void in the market, and Wizz Air (who pay their pilots that pitiful amount) just happens to have 20 A321XLRs on order. Good luck competing with that, airlines of the US...


Norwegian may have created some jobs but let’s also be realistic that others with competitor airlines must have lost out due to them. The fact remains that new entrants like Norwegian (and WOW) just disrupt the market and eventually fail. They join a long list of other unsuccessful airlines who tried low-cost long-haul and failed. There be a gap in the market but does any airline really need passengers who only want to pay bargain basement fares?


I agree with you, but Wizz Air and Ryanair are either killing off competitors so passengers have no choice, or forcing the competitors to adapt to their own low standards. See the recent Lufthansa announcement to introduce BoB in economy on short and medium haul flights. Unlike Norwegian, those two have the capital and extreme low costs to start a serious long-term fight with the US3.
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:34 am

Someone83 wrote:
Norwegian just announced they are furlough 1600 employees and reducing the active fleet from 21 to 6 aircraft, basically going back to a scaled down and minimum Norwegian domestic network, similar to the one in April/May

From today Norwegian is back in Denmark again - on CPH-OSL and CPH-AAL.

Wonder if they have activated more than those 6 aircraft.

Following the thomb down by the Norwegian govt it is maybe fair to guess that they have got a better financial agreement with the new owners, the leasing companies, to cater for the slightly expanded activity.
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Someone83
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:21 am

prebennorholm wrote:

Following the thomb down by the Norwegian govt it is maybe fair to guess that they have got a better financial agreement with the new owners, the leasing companies, to cater for the slightly expanded activity.


Don't think so and most of the leasing companies keep selling their Norwegian shares. What Norwegian does now is up the the court in Dublin
 
Someone83
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:44 pm

The court in Dublin has just approved Norwegian's application for creditor protection
 
a350lover
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:59 pm

Someone83 wrote:
The court in Dublin has just approved Norwegian's application for creditor protection


When do they plan to announce (in aviation/production terms) what's the new outlook for the company over the next months?
 
Someone83
Posts: 5009
Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:47 pm

Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:10 pm

a350lover wrote:
Someone83 wrote:
The court in Dublin has just approved Norwegian's application for creditor protection


When do they plan to announce (in aviation/production terms) what's the new outlook for the company over the next months?


That is sort of the process, and they need to find investors and get the creditors to approve a proposed plan and recapitalization
 
a350lover
Posts: 922
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:28 pm

Someone83 wrote:
That is sort of the process, and they need to find investors and get the creditors to approve a proposed plan and recapitalization


They already had a plan dated from May this year which included plans to ramp up an operation of both long haul (based in LGW mainly) and short haul at 80% of capacity approximately for the peak of next S21. I am not sure how different the scenario can be if they don't take real big changes in terms of network, staff and fleet.
 
Channex101
Posts: 17
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Mon Dec 07, 2020 5:48 pm

Norwegian really is the airline with 9 lives!!

Various people just keep investing and injecting money into them but they just dont seem to ever get themself sorted.
At what point do you admit defeat and just wrap it up?
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2602
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 pm

Channex101 wrote:
Norwegian really is the airline with 9 lives!!

Various people just keep investing and injecting money into them but they just dont seem to ever get themself sorted.
At what point do you admit defeat and just wrap it up?


Clearly, Norwegian learned a lot from Alitalia.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:52 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Channex101 wrote:
Norwegian really is the airline with 9 lives!!

Various people just keep investing and injecting money into them but they just dont seem to ever get themself sorted.
At what point do you admit defeat and just wrap it up?


Clearly, Norwegian learned a lot from Alitalia.

The zombie airlines both amaze and scare me. Is Europe short on garlic and wood stakes or something?

Lightsaber
I cannot wait to get vaccinated to live again! Warning: I simulated that it takes 50%+ vaccinated to protect the vaccinated and 75%+ vaccinated to protect the vac-hesitant.
 
oldJoe
Posts: 362
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:04 pm

Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:07 am

lightsaber wrote:
Dieuwer wrote:
Channex101 wrote:
Norwegian really is the airline with 9 lives!!

Various people just keep investing and injecting money into them but they just dont seem to ever get themself sorted.
At what point do you admit defeat and just wrap it up?


Clearly, Norwegian learned a lot from Alitalia.

The zombie airlines both amaze and scare me. Is Europe short on garlic and wood stakes or something?

Lightsaber


I`m not short of garlic at all !
You can not compare the US with Europe ! When I want to visit Paris I drive by car 8 km and then take a bus ( for free by the way ) to Luxemburg City and then the TGV to Paris takes a bit longer than by air but cost only a 1/3 rd and I`m in the city !
Yes , these are real zombie airlines to say at least !
 
Someone83
Posts: 5009
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Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:31 am

Just announced: Norwegian has applied for reconstruction (i.e. creditor protection) in Norway as well
 
M564038
Posts: 534
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:16 am

Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:23 pm

With the talk of «Zombie»-airlines, you are forgetting that pre-CoV19 Norwegian was doing better than ever, and that most of the problems before that was quite frankly Boeing’s.
The basic bussines model has worked for a long time, and the basic Norwegian airline minus Long Haul has worked great for a very long time. A smoothly operating Norwegian could be a very good airline.
 
a350lover
Posts: 922
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:47 pm

M564038 wrote:
The basic bussines model has worked for a long time, and the basic Norwegian airline minus Long Haul has worked great for a very long time. A smoothly operating Norwegian could be a very good airline.


Over the last years, when Norwegian served from Longyerbayen to Ushuaia many people here warned there was little consistency behind all that hysteria for expanding at the cost of more and more debt.

Norwegian must have had many years of successful operations serving very lucrative markets such as Norway-UK, Scandinavia-Greek islands, Scandinavia-Spain/Italy and intra Scandinavia just with 737s flying short haul. But they complicated themselves unnecessaryly with the B787s and afterwards with the MAX. Surely they are not responsible for Boeing faults, just unlucky.

I am not an expert on finances, but, is there any organized and realistic way that Norwegian could get rid off all the long haul fleet and part of the 737 fleet so that they get back to something similar to what they were before 2012? Or any attempt to do so would kill themselves anyway because of debt?
 
Blerg
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Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:37 pm

Really makes you think where they would be today if they just limited their long-haul flying to Oslo. In stead they entered highly competitive markets while bringing nothing new in terms of product and service.
 
FLYKTPA
Posts: 461
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:56 pm

Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:46 pm

Blerg wrote:
Really makes you think where they would be today if they just limited their long-haul flying to Oslo. In stead they entered highly competitive markets while bringing nothing new in terms of product and service.


But isn’t long-haul from OSL, CPH and ARN what didn’t work? Wasn’t it too seasonal and low yielding which is why most of it was cut?
Huge fan of Tampa International Airport
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 1098
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:51 pm

Really makes you think where they would be today if they just limited themselves to short-haul flying
 
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AirPacific747
Posts: 9725
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:52 am

Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:36 pm

Blerg wrote:
Really makes you think where they would be today if they just limited their long-haul flying to Oslo. In stead they entered highly competitive markets while bringing nothing new in terms of product and service.


They did bring something new. It was an excellent value for money, especially the premium (economy) product. Also, longhaul out of the bigger cities such as London and Paris has been profitable.
 
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Dahlgardo
Posts: 479
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:46 am

Re: Norwegian News and Discussion - 2020

Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:39 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Really makes you think where they would be today if they just limited themselves to short-haul flying


Hard to say.


If they want to emerge on the other side of the bankruptcy process as viable and profitable airline, they will have to find a place in the market that will differentiate them from Wizz and Ryanair.
They will never be able to compete with FR and W6 on seat mile cost alone.

As it is now, W6 and FR are expanding aggressively on DYs home turf (Scandinavia).

The future does not look bright for DY.
leave your nines at home and bring your skills to the battle

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