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qf789
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Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:51 am

Today VA CEO has indicated that Virgin could place an order to replace the existing widebodies that start coming off lease in 2024.

Both the 6 A332’s and 5 77W’s would be replaced by a single fleet being either 787 or A350.

Personally the 787 would be better, both BNE and MEL to LAX could allow them to go daily, perhaps start SEA and would be a better fit for future flights to Asia and more the right size for domestic runs

https://www.reuters.com/article/virgin- ... SL4N2AP1J3

https://twitter.com/aeronewsglobal/stat ... 65093?s=21
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:53 am

Hopefully they learn from their previous mistakes and go for a smaller bird that they can fill regularly.
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:55 am

787s seems perfect for them, right capacity range for them and plenty of range.
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:02 am

Let’s hope common sense will prevail at VA. I think they should replace the 11 aircraft with a much smaller fleet of say 6-8 787-9. This would be the right size aircraft (I’m guessing 270ish seats for VA) which would allow them to easily fill daily ex MEL/BNE/SYD-LAX.

The extra 2 aircraft could be used for HND (if it’s still around) or a SYD/MEL - PER rotation. Personally I think 6 would be sufficient and just keep international to LAX.

What is the range of the 339? Can it fly MEL-LAX?
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:07 am

Both the 789 and A359 would be fine for their international services to US and Japan. If they intend to also use these planes on domestic services, then the 787 is probably preferred but I suspect that they will withdraw widebodies from domestic use once the A332s are returned and the 737-10s arrive.

Having said that, I wonder if they are seriously looking at replacing their widebody fleets given the depressed WB market means the owned 77Ws are going to be hard to shift at anything approaching book value. Maybe they are just mentioning this to increase pressure on the A332 lessors to extend the existing leases on more favourable terms or they'll get 6 A332s on the doorstep in 2024.
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:35 am

QF742 wrote:
Let’s hope common sense will prevail at VA. I think they should replace the 11 aircraft with a much smaller fleet of say 6-8 787-9. This would be the right size aircraft (I’m guessing 270ish seats for VA) which would allow them to easily fill daily ex MEL/BNE/SYD-LAX.

The extra 2 aircraft could be used for HND (if it’s still around) or a SYD/MEL - PER rotation. Personally I think 6 would be sufficient and just keep international to LAX.

What is the range of the 339? Can it fly MEL-LAX?


9x A359 or 789s would be more suited for VA.

x6 for SYD/BNE/MEL-LAX daily
x1 for BNE-HND (or weekend Fri-Sat BNE-DPS, consolidated into 1 daily flight rather than the current x9-x10 weekly on BNE-DPS)
x2 to x3 for SYD/MEL-PER rotations.
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:38 am

I would a thought a mix of A350-900s for Domestic/Asia and 1000s for USA.

Perhaps even the A330neo would be suitable if it has the range for LAX
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:50 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
I would a thought a mix of A350-900s for Domestic/Asia and 1000s for USA.

Perhaps even the A330neo would be suitable if it has the range for LAX

A339 does not have the range for LAX-MEL. It has still air range to do BNE-LAX but would probably struggle westbound. The A338 could comfortably do LAX-BNE but unlikely to make LAX-MEL.
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:51 am

qf789 wrote:
Today VA CEO has indicated that Virgin could place an order to replace the existing widebodies that start coming off lease in 2024.


My first thought is with what money. If they want them by 2024, then they’d have to order in 2021/2022. I am surmising they believe they’ll be profitable by then.

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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:57 am

If they’re wanting to standardise on one plane, which is probably the most practicable option, then the 789 is probably their better choice.

Otherwise I’d suggest 4-5 A339s to do BNE-HND and some OZ transcontinental, and 6 A359s do to BNE/SYD/MEL-LAX.

Rgds,
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:07 am

Boeing wants to keep the output as high as possible, so this will be a killer deal for VA with Boeing\GE
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:08 am

Do they really need widebodies for PER-SYD/MEL/BNE? Could the max-10 not cover this mission?

789 makes most sense to me.
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:53 am

Ideally VS needs a B789 sized aircraft but also needs to grow capacity beyond 2025 to a bigger plane as demand + competition heats up.

The main advantage of an A359/A351 combo fleet is that both these planes can fly from SYD/MEL to LAX/SFO nonstop easily but the B781 cannot.

The 316T A351 can do SYD/MEL-LAX/SFO.

I think it will come down to who will offer the best overall pricing + after sales support package for either an all B787 fleet or A350 fleet. And over here, I give the slight edge to Boeing because VA can request them buying back their B77Ws in exchange for a size able B787 order.
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:03 am

tullamarine wrote:
A339 does not have the range for LAX-MEL. It has still air range to do BNE-LAX but would probably struggle westbound. The A338 could comfortably do LAX-BNE but unlikely to make LAX-MEL.

A339 has the same range as the baseline 744s that previously flew all of the above, so it's doable... though payload hit during seasonal winds would probably leave it out of favor.

A338 in a premium config at 251T shouldn't have any trouble with any of the above; but man, that per-seat cost. :eek:
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:24 am

Emphasis added
qf789 wrote:
Today VA CEO has indicated that Virgin could place an order to replace the existing widebodies that start coming off lease in 2024.

Both the 6 A332’s and 5 77W’s would be replaced by a single fleet being either 787 or A350.
...


Interesting comment.
Does the airline consider the 777-300ER "too big" for their traffic volume?

Do they plan to have more flights to LAX?
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:31 am

Boeing highly likely. They have a 777 Sim also, this can be converted over.

Will form part of slight renegotiating the MAX deal, and potentially a deal offloading the 777 fleet. Also go with Boeing, In terms of delivery adjustments etc for the MAX...becoming more tailored for their future financial means.
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:40 am

Does VA have any realistic growth routes to the US?

Does VA have any realistic growth elsewhere?
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:45 am

qf789 wrote:
Today VA CEO has indicated that Virgin could place an order to replace the existing widebodies that start coming off lease in 2024.

Both the 6 A332’s and 5 77W’s would be replaced by a single fleet being either 787 or A350.

Personally the 787 would be better, both BNE and MEL to LAX could allow them to go daily, perhaps start SEA and would be a better fit for future flights to Asia and more the right size for domestic runs

https://www.reuters.com/article/virgin- ... SL4N2AP1J3


From the article:
* Underlying pre-tax profit falls 78%, posts bottom line loss

* To take A$50-A$75 mln hit from coronavirus impact in second half

* Seven planes to exit fleet, may lead to pilot redundancies

* Considering widebody plane order as early as this year (Adds CEO comments on potential widebody order)


Wow. Things aren’t looking great.
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:53 am

VV wrote:
Does the airline consider the 777-300ER "too big" for their traffic volume?

Do they plan to have more flights to LAX?


LAX isn’t the same as it used to be, it was once needed to be an transit point between Auckland/New Zealand and North America.

That has changed with the 787, allowing more direct point to point routes to be enabled.

A350/787s would allow VA to do non stop services in deeper America, they wouldn’t need to be daily.
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:55 am

I can’t see how the airline will afford this. The airline is not making money and it’s benefactors/shareholders have surely run out of largesse.

But with regard to airline replacement, I’d see the 787-8 and -9 being the most suitable.

The A321xlr should be on the cards for international expansion too if they ever start making money.
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:01 am

questions wrote:
Does VA have any realistic growth routes to the US?

Does VA have any realistic growth elsewhere?


The only "growth" I'd see to the US would be bringing BNE and MEL up to daily.
Otherwise, it would be to a west coast Delta hub, which leaves SEA - but I can't see that being realistic, if they were to make that work they'd have to have first mover advantage.
By the time VA receive the last of the aircraft ordered, SWZ-LAX direct a few days a week.

By 2024, who knows what state SA will be in, so PER-JNB could be a possibility, VA are in the ideal terminal space in PER to take advantage of good connections and QF will probably still be arguing with PER airport authorities in four years time.
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:05 am

Out of interest, why are the A330s operated by "Virgin Australia International"?



Edit: Fixed A330!
Last edited by scbriml on Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:11 am

scbriml wrote:
Out of interest, why are the A300s operated by "Virgin Australia International"?


The A330s are on the VAi AOC, alongside the 77Ws and the former VANZ (Pacific Blue) 738s.
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:12 am

zkncj wrote:
VV wrote:
Does the airline consider the 777-300ER "too big" for their traffic volume?

Do they plan to have more flights to LAX?


LAX isn’t the same as it used to be, it was once needed to be an transit point between Auckland/New Zealand and North America.

That has changed with the 787, allowing more direct point to point routes to be enabled.

A350/787s would allow VA to do non stop services in deeper America, they wouldn’t need to be daily.


I am not sure you are right.

In addition it seems Virgin Australia has a codeshare agreement with Delta.

I just do not understand your comment. Is it based on something you really know or is it something you just want to say?
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:21 am

VV wrote:
zkncj wrote:
VV wrote:
Does the airline consider the 777-300ER "too big" for their traffic volume?

Do they plan to have more flights to LAX?


LAX isn’t the same as it used to be, it was once needed to be an transit point between Auckland/New Zealand and North America.

That has changed with the 787, allowing more direct point to point routes to be enabled.

A350/787s would allow VA to do non stop services in deeper America, they wouldn’t need to be daily.


I am not sure you are right.

In addition it seems Virgin Australia has a codeshare agreement with Delta.

I just do not understand your comment. Is it based on something you really know or is it something you just want to say?


VA and DL have a fully immunized JV on the Trans Pacific corridor. Any long term expansion whether if its VA or DL will very likely be to a DL hub (e.g SEA or ATL).
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:25 am

SCFlyer wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Out of interest, why are the A300s operated by "Virgin Australia International"?


The A330s are on the VAi AOC, alongside the 77Ws and the former VANZ (Pacific Blue) 738s.


AFAICS (two different sources), only the A330s are operated by VAI.

I understand about different AOCs, my question was why? Tax reasons, different pay structures?
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:28 am

If they go for one model then the 789 would be best. If they are looking for a family to replace the 77W and A330 then the A350 has a shot. The A35K will comfortably replace the capabilities of the 77W at not much of a reduced capacity and if they need a long haul aircraft with fewer seats, the A359 is more than capable to fill the role.
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:07 am

The 777-300ER was too big for V-Oz even though they run it in a 9-abreast config. This means that the A350-1000 should be declared out of the running, so the only jets capable of VA's performance requirements (I'm presuming they're going for a single fleet, and the longest route they'll have to fly is Melbourne to Los Angeles) are the A330-800neo, A330-900neo (and this would be challenging with TPAC winds), the 787-8 (again challenging with TPAC winds), 787-9 and A350-900.

The A330-800 has very high CASM. The 787-8 has suboptimal CASM but, if it can make Melbourne to LAX, might be a viable choice. The A330-900 probably doesn't have enough performance to make the journey (and if the 787-8 can't, the A330-900 surely won't be able to). The 787-9 could do the routes easily and is easier to fill, and the A350-900 is a little bit bigger but still better than the 777-300ERs.

I'm tempted to suggest VA will go for the A350-900, because then they could claim wider seat width than the Qantas 787s. In addition, VA has a bar for Business passengers (maybe they'll make it more a social space/lounge like Virgin have done in their A350s, but the point still stands), and if they keep that the extra space of the A350 relative to the 787-9 won't be too much of a big deal. In addition, the bigger jet may be helpful in maximizing the number of seats they fly to Haneda Airport (one of the most slot-restricted airports in the world). There's also the fact that the A330neo engines have been slightly unreliable (from what I know) relative to the Trent XWB (as well as the GE engines for the 787s). And the A350-900 would give VOz substantially upgraded cargo capabilities.

I could see Virgin getting 787-9s though. But I doubt they'd be generous enough to run them with 8-abreast Economy seats.

So I wager A350-900s for VOz. Although I wonder how they'll deal with Premium Economy.... VOz has historically been pretty generous with premium economy (42" legroom IIRC) but in the A350-900 they may have to either compromise the seat width (to get 8-abreast) or seat pitch (if they want to have a competitive CASM at 7-abreast).

Glad to hear Virgin will get that fleet renewal.
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:17 am

SCFlyer wrote:
QF742 wrote:
Let’s hope common sense will prevail at VA. I think they should replace the 11 aircraft with a much smaller fleet of say 6-8 787-9. This would be the right size aircraft (I’m guessing 270ish seats for VA) which would allow them to easily fill daily ex MEL/BNE/SYD-LAX.

The extra 2 aircraft could be used for HND (if it’s still around) or a SYD/MEL - PER rotation. Personally I think 6 would be sufficient and just keep international to LAX.

What is the range of the 339? Can it fly MEL-LAX?


9x A359 or 789s would be more suited for VA.

x6 for SYD/BNE/MEL-LAX daily
x1 for BNE-HND (or weekend Fri-Sat BNE-DPS, consolidated into 1 daily flight rather than the current x9-x10 weekly on BNE-DPS)
x2 to x3 for SYD/MEL-PER rotations.


I think the VA of old would have ordered wide bodies again for PER flights, but I’m hoping under the new management they won’t. It’s really not necessary and VA’s push to try beat QF in every corner has clearly failed (ie trying to compete with widebodies to PER). They should focus on being niche and will probably do quite well (like they used to as DJ).

I also don’t think the cost of acquiring the aircraft could be justified for flights to PER when it can be adequately serviced by a 737. Overall, if they reduce the fleet down to 6-8 from 11 and have a single type, potentially those savings could put them in a better position than they are in now.
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:30 am

The 788 is the 762 of yesteryear, it's too small to be economically viable in the long run, esp. now that there are such low CASM options available.
For VA they should be able to up-gauge and if the 781 can't go the distance well that's a problem. They would be limited to the 789.
The A359 and possibility to upgrade to A351 would give them more capacity, growth potential and longer legs.

I guess the outcome of QF's Sunrise project will also influence this: if QF gets the best aircraft from A or B with some kind of exclusivity, VA will be sitting on the bench and watching.
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:17 am

questions wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Today VA CEO has indicated that Virgin could place an order to replace the existing widebodies that start coming off lease in 2024.

Both the 6 A332’s and 5 77W’s would be replaced by a single fleet being either 787 or A350.

Personally the 787 would be better, both BNE and MEL to LAX could allow them to go daily, perhaps start SEA and would be a better fit for future flights to Asia and more the right size for domestic runs

https://www.reuters.com/article/virgin- ... SL4N2AP1J3


From the article:
* Underlying pre-tax profit falls 78%, posts bottom line loss

* To take A$50-A$75 mln hit from coronavirus impact in second half

* Seven planes to exit fleet, may lead to pilot redundancies

* Considering widebody plane order as early as this year (Adds CEO comments on potential widebody order)


Wow. Things aren’t looking great.


You forgot negative cash flows of $600 million year on year!

Seriously, the business is taking some serious steps to right size. With capacity forecast to be reduced by about 8% over the coming year, with a static market VA could generate profits in the region $200m.

Kudos to the new CEO. He seems to be making the right steps for ensuring a sustainable future.
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:19 am

brightcedars wrote:
I guess the outcome of QF's Sunrise project will also influence this: if QF gets the best aircraft from A or B with some kind of exclusivity, VA will be sitting on the bench and watching.


Huh? QF already operates the 787 and is likely to order the A350 within the next 30 days. By that logic VA can't order anything. But neither OEM would ever agree to an "exclusivity" deal, and especially not for the dozen or so orders that QF are offering, so it's a moot point.
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:30 am

qf789 wrote:
Today VA CEO has indicated that Virgin could place an order to replace the existing widebodies that start coming off lease in 2024.

Both the 6 A332’s and 5 77W’s would be replaced by a single fleet being either 787 or A350.

Personally the 787 would be better, both BNE and MEL to LAX could allow them to go daily, perhaps start SEA and would be a better fit for future flights to Asia and more the right size for domestic runs

https://www.reuters.com/article/virgin- ... SL4N2AP1J3


In the article there is no mentioning of 787 or A350 as the replacement, just that the replacement would be a single model.
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:28 am

They should let go of the A330s after the leases expire and use the money to lease some A321neo for domestic and SE Asia flights. Keep the 77Ws for NA/JP flights unless they are bleeding money due to poor load factors and operating cost in which case lease 5-6 A359/789 depending on the demand.
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:10 pm

zkncj wrote:
A350/787s would allow VA to do non stop services in deeper America, they wouldn’t need to be daily.


I wonder what you have in mind for 'deeper' America.

There's no value to SLC - it offers no meaningful connectivity beyond what DL offers from LAX.

DEN is a UA hub - VA will get no traction. DEN elevation would test range on the return flight.

ORD, IAH, DFW? Questionable O&D and no DL lift.

Something else?
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:22 pm

A359 gives VA the flexibility of future A35K and A330neo. Say they focus on making LAX daily from the big East Coast hubs and HND. Maybe try to tie in with LATAM under DL guidance ? That could help poach QF traffic to SCL and beyond. JNB could also be a possibility.
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:56 pm

Can VA afford any new aircraft? What is their financial position like these days?
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:05 pm

First of all to fly SYD-SCL/EZE or SYD-JNB requires ETOPS 330. These are also niche markets. They should focus on LAX/SFO in the Americas and SIN or HND in Asia.
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:23 pm

behramjee wrote:
Ideally VS needs a B789 sized aircraft but also needs to grow capacity beyond 2025 to a bigger plane as demand + competition heats up.

The main advantage of an A359/A351 combo fleet is that both these planes can fly from SYD/MEL to LAX/SFO nonstop easily but the B781 cannot.

The 316T A351 can do SYD/MEL-LAX/SFO.

I think it will come down to who will offer the best overall pricing + after sales support package for either an all B787 fleet or A350 fleet. And over here, I give the slight edge to Boeing because VA can request them buying back their B77Ws in exchange for a size able B787 order.

Not to nitpick but the stock standard 308t A351/K can do those routes you mentioned easily.
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:16 pm

smi0006 wrote:
Do they really need widebodies for PER-SYD/MEL/BNE? Could the max-10 not cover this mission?

789 makes most sense to me.


Both PER-SYD and PER-MEL can sustain widebodies. There isn't an issue with filling them and I have just checked the loads in business over recent weeks and there is rarely a seat available in J. If they were to use the 737MAX10 on transcon both MEL and SYD would probably need to have a frequency added to maintain capacity that is currently offered on those routes
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:33 pm

VV wrote:
Emphasis added
qf789 wrote:
Today VA CEO has indicated that Virgin could place an order to replace the existing widebodies that start coming off lease in 2024.

Both the 6 A332’s and 5 77W’s would be replaced by a single fleet being either 787 or A350.
...


Interesting comment.
Does the airline consider the 777-300ER "too big" for their traffic volume?

Do they plan to have more flights to LAX?


Its not that it is too big, they certainly don't have trouble filling them during peak times. In off peak times loads do fluctuate a bit and they would get better yields from a smaller widebody. It also is not practical running a fleet of 5 77W's and 6 A332's. Both BNE and MEL to LAX are not daily, an aircraft such as the 789 would allow for a daily service. For SYD-LAX having a smaller aircraft would reduce the number of seats however would be better off during the off peak periods, during peak periods they could increase frequency from daily to 9-10 weekly if they need to
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:38 pm

zkncj wrote:
VV wrote:
Does the airline consider the 777-300ER "too big" for their traffic volume?

Do they plan to have more flights to LAX?


LAX isn’t the same as it used to be, it was once needed to be an transit point between Auckland/New Zealand and North America.

That has changed with the 787, allowing more direct point to point routes to be enabled.

A350/787s would allow VA to do non stop services in deeper America, they wouldn’t need to be daily.


On top of the LAX services, SEA is the most likely though I would also think SFO could be considered along with YVR. Given that VA codeshares with AC and also taking into account the bilaterals where AC is close to their limit, if they wanted to add more capacity VA could add a service to YVR to facilitate that
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:50 pm

SCFlyer wrote:
QF742 wrote:
Let’s hope common sense will prevail at VA. I think they should replace the 11 aircraft with a much smaller fleet of say 6-8 787-9. This would be the right size aircraft (I’m guessing 270ish seats for VA) which would allow them to easily fill daily ex MEL/BNE/SYD-LAX.

The extra 2 aircraft could be used for HND (if it’s still around) or a SYD/MEL - PER rotation. Personally I think 6 would be sufficient and just keep international to LAX.

What is the range of the 339? Can it fly MEL-LAX?


9x A359 or 789s would be more suited for VA.

x6 for SYD/BNE/MEL-LAX daily
x1 for BNE-HND (or weekend Fri-Sat BNE-DPS, consolidated into 1 daily flight rather than the current x9-x10 weekly on BNE-DPS)
x2 to x3 for SYD/MEL-PER rotations.


BNE-DPS does not need a widebody on it. If a larger aircraft it put on it over the current 737-800 it will be the 737MAX10. Additionally the VA43/44 rotation which is the 2-3 weekly frequency operates to DRW during NS, therefore it operates BNE-DPS-DRW-DPS-BNE
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:00 pm

sabby wrote:
They should let go of the A330s after the leases expire and use the money to lease some A321neo for domestic and SE Asia flights. Keep the 77Ws for NA/JP flights unless they are bleeding money due to poor load factors and operating cost in which case lease 5-6 A359/789 depending on the demand.


Virgin are not going to operate the A321neo, the 737MAX10 will serve them well and Paul Scurrah indicated last year when they upped the 737MAX10 order in lieu of less 737MAX8 that the 737MAX both 8 and 10 presents the airline new opportunities for new routes
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:23 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Today VA CEO has indicated that Virgin could place an order to replace the existing widebodies that start coming off lease in 2024.

Both the 6 A332’s and 5 77W’s would be replaced by a single fleet being either 787 or A350.

Personally the 787 would be better, both BNE and MEL to LAX could allow them to go daily, perhaps start SEA and would be a better fit for future flights to Asia and more the right size for domestic runs

https://www.reuters.com/article/virgin- ... SL4N2AP1J3


In the article there is no mentioning of 787 or A350 as the replacement, just that the replacement would be a single model.


Sure, but the only reasonable options are 787 or a350.

It's not like they're going to order the 748. The 777X is an absurd upgauge from a a332 so that's not it either.
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:13 pm

Antarius wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Today VA CEO has indicated that Virgin could place an order to replace the existing widebodies that start coming off lease in 2024.

Both the 6 A332’s and 5 77W’s would be replaced by a single fleet being either 787 or A350.

Personally the 787 would be better, both BNE and MEL to LAX could allow them to go daily, perhaps start SEA and would be a better fit for future flights to Asia and more the right size for domestic runs

https://www.reuters.com/article/virgin- ... SL4N2AP1J3


In the article there is no mentioning of 787 or A350 as the replacement, just that the replacement would be a single model.


Sure, but the only reasonable options are 787 or a350.

It's not like they're going to order the 748. The 777X is an absurd upgauge from a a332 so that's not it either.


A330neo is an option.

But the main point was, that reuters did not talk about 787 or A350 as the thread title implies.
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:01 pm

I do not know what you think, but I think the tandem GE/Boeing will work very-very hard to get this deal.
It does not mean Airbus and Rolls-Royce would not do their best endeavor to get the deal too.
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:16 pm

qf789 wrote:
sabby wrote:
They should let go of the A330s after the leases expire and use the money to lease some A321neo for domestic and SE Asia flights. Keep the 77Ws for NA/JP flights unless they are bleeding money due to poor load factors and operating cost in which case lease 5-6 A359/789 depending on the demand.


Virgin are not going to operate the A321neo, the 737MAX10 will serve them well and Paul Scurrah indicated last year when they upped the 737MAX10 order in lieu of less 737MAX8 that the 737MAX both 8 and 10 presents the airline new opportunities for new routes

I was talking more short term till they get enough max 10s delivered not to mention possible delays due to the current groundings.
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:18 pm

789 seems best flexible fit.
 
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Re: Virgin Australia considering widebody order this year, 787’s or A350’s to replace A332’s and 77W’s

Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:26 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
Antarius wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:

In the article there is no mentioning of 787 or A350 as the replacement, just that the replacement would be a single model.


Sure, but the only reasonable options are 787 or a350.

It's not like they're going to order the 748. The 777X is an absurd upgauge from a a332 so that's not it either.


A330neo is an option.

But the main point was, that reuters did not talk about 787 or A350 as the thread title implies.


Not really. the a339 isn't a viable option range wise and the a338 would be commercially as insane as a 748.

Nothing wrong the OP filtering out the absurd to target the likely options. They did not use quotes.
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