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airfrnt
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Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:29 pm

Southwest met with the aviation business committee this afternoon in Denver as the city and the airline are finishing up a contract to add 16 more gates to Southwest's existing 24 gates taking them to 40 gates total. In addition they are also extending their contract with the airport out to 2035 for all gates.

Denver was already Southwest's third busiest city, being 10 flights (214 versus 224) a day behind it's competitors despite the fact that WN has seven less gates in DEN then Baltimore and Chicago. Denver already has more daily destinations then any other city. Southwest plans to add both depth and breadth - more frequency and more cities from Denver, starting with new non-stop to steamboat (which is a incredibly short hop for Denver). Not surprisingly WN is also adding a maintenance complex to the airport.

It sounds like the airport will be back at city council in a few weeks to discuss adding more gates to C west and re-configuring A east. in addition, they are also looking at what to do after these last relatively easy expansions are done. The airport is prototyping some features for the new hold rooms with new chairs and layouts in a "rest and relaxation" area on A concourse.

This follows up on United's recent additional lease of 24 gates, which takes them to ninety gates.
 
WN732
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:45 pm

airfrnt wrote:
Southwest met with the aviation business committee this afternoon in Denver as the city and the airline are finishing up a contract to add 16 more gates to Southwest's existing 24 gates taking them to 40 gates total. In addition they are also extending their contract with the airport out to 2035 for all gates.

Denver was already Southwest's third busiest city, being 10 flights (214 versus 224) a day behind it's competitors despite the fact that WN has seven less gates in DEN then Baltimore and Chicago. Denver already has more daily destinations then any other city. Southwest plans to add both depth and breadth - more frequency and more cities from Denver, starting with new non-stop to steamboat (which is a incredibly short hop for Denver). Not surprisingly WN is also adding a maintenance complex to the airport.

It sounds like the airport will be back at city council in a few weeks to discuss adding more gates to C west and re-configuring A east. in addition, they are also looking at what to do after these last relatively easy expansions are done. The airport is prototyping some features for the new hold rooms with new chairs and layouts in a "rest and relaxation" area on A concourse.

This follows up on United's recent additional lease of 24 gates, which takes them to ninety gates.


DEN has proven to be a very impressive station for WN. Amazing to see the growth it's gone through in just 15 years.
 
BNAMealer
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:54 pm

Good for DEN, it makes a lot of sense for WN to expand there. Though I do wonder how much more they could realistically add (new city wise).

Do you have a source about adding more gates to C west and reconfiguring A east?
 
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william
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:56 pm

For the oldtimers here on Anet, could anyone imagine when Stapleton shut down that in 1995, that 25 years later United and "SWA" would be the largest carriers at DEN?
 
midway7
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:01 pm

william wrote:
For the oldtimers here on Anet, could anyone imagine when Stapleton shut down that in 1995, that 25 years later United and "SWA" would be the largest carriers at DEN?


I would have envisioned United. They were a firm player in DEN and completely on board with the new airport, at least as best as they could be. I would have never envisioned Southwest as #2.
 
GSP psgr
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:08 pm

In terms of completely new network cities: Fresno, Colorado Springs, and Bozeman

As far as network adds from Denver: Charlotte, Providence, Birmingham, Rochester
 
Jshank83
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:47 pm

If they were to start ANC (not sure how likely that is) they could run it from DEN.
 
Northwest1988
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:53 pm

For those of us less familiar, what kind of operation did Southwest have 15+ years ago at DEN? We’re they there at all?
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:59 pm

The Southwest City Fact Sheets (oddly, as PDFs, not HTML pages) are your friends.

Starting Service January 3, 2006
13 daily nonstop departures to three cities: Chicago (Midway), Las Vegas, and Phoenix
62nd city in Southwest's system

https://www.swamedia.com/pages/city-fact-sheets
 
ibthebigd
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:00 am

Will they trim PHX and LAS to be mostly O/D?

As a passenger I try to fly Southwest thru PHX or LAS because of the good weather year around in both cities.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
alasizon
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:01 am

ibthebigd wrote:
Will they trim PHX and LAS to be mostly O/D?

As a passenger I try to fly Southwest thru PHX or LAS because of the good weather year around in both cities.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


No, they are also adding more gates in PHX.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
Vctony
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:12 am

alasizon wrote:
ibthebigd wrote:
Will they trim PHX and LAS to be mostly O/D?

As a passenger I try to fly Southwest thru PHX or LAS because of the good weather year around in both cities.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


No, they are also adding more gates in PHX.


They have shifted some flights that rely on connections from LAS to DEN. I don’t understand their plan for PHX. It has been a stagnant operation ever since DEN opened but they are expanding their maintenance base and adding 8 gates.
 
maps4ltd
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:13 am

alasizon wrote:
ibthebigd wrote:
Will they trim PHX and LAS to be mostly O/D?

As a passenger I try to fly Southwest thru PHX or LAS because of the good weather year around in both cities.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


No, they are also adding more gates in PHX.


How are they going to manage all this growth with their current limited fleet?
Delta Gold Medallion
 
alasizon
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:16 am

maps4ltd wrote:
alasizon wrote:
ibthebigd wrote:
Will they trim PHX and LAS to be mostly O/D?

As a passenger I try to fly Southwest thru PHX or LAS because of the good weather year around in both cities.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


No, they are also adding more gates in PHX.


How are they going to manage all this growth with their current limited fleet?


It assumes that the MAX comes back into service.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:23 am

Denver to Honolulu is 5,415 kilometers / 2,924 nautical miles.
MAX-8 has a still air range of 6,570 km / 3,550 nautical miles.
Does anyone think this route is a possibility?

maps4ltd wrote:
How are they going to manage all this growth with their current limited fleet?


I assume that the fleet will be growing by the end of the year, one way or another.
 
flyingchoirboy
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:34 am

Kudos to WN, this is an amazing story and a huge success.

I remember when WN announced their first flights from DEN. It's not like people were saying "That's stupid", "That'll never work", "How can they compete with F9 and UA"? Nobody, though, could have predicted that, one day, DEN would be WN's biggest city.

This is, pure and simple, a testament to WN's business plan and execution. They leveraged their incredible success growing in secondary airports like MDW to enter crowded, primary gateways like DEN, and have continued to grow.

I love WN, they are my favorite airline for domestic travel. Wow! Just wow :)
 
BNAMealer
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:47 am

Vctony wrote:
alasizon wrote:
ibthebigd wrote:
Will they trim PHX and LAS to be mostly O/D?

As a passenger I try to fly Southwest thru PHX or LAS because of the good weather year around in both cities.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


No, they are also adding more gates in PHX.


They have shifted some flights that rely on connections from LAS to DEN. I don’t understand their plan for PHX. It has been a stagnant operation ever since DEN opened but they are expanding their maintenance base and adding 8 gates.


I don’t get it either, but with DAL and HOU constrained and LAS becoming ultra-competitive, I could see the case for expanding PHX. Just wonder how big they want to get it long term.
 
Qantas59
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:52 am

Southwest also served DEN briefly from May, 1983 until Sep, 1986. They did much better on the second attempt!
[photoid][photoid][/photoid][/photoid]/Users/jaytanguay/Desktop/Screen Shot 2016-10-27 at 9.30.09 AM.png
 
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ChrisNH38
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:21 am

People in the secondary New England cities like MHT/PVD need more westbound flights on WN. Aside from flights to MDW, I’d like flights further west to places like DEN and PHX, also LAS because they are often ‘safer’ cities to connect at if you’re going to LAX, SAN, SFO etc.

So I’m cautiously hopeful that these new gates lead to a return of flights to places around here not named ‘Boston.’
https://my.flightradar24.com/ChrisNH
 
ericm2031
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:34 am

I don’t think it has been confirmed how many gates in PHX WN will end up with. They’re adding 8, but 7 of the current gates can’t accommodate 738’s so it is thought that they will give some of those back to the city.

LAS seems vulnerable with so much ULCC competition there although a lot of it is very low frequency.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:46 am

Denver could conceivably climb to the #2 position for domestic enplaned passengers
2018 domestic enplaned in millions
Atlanta 45.711
Chicago O'Hare 33.144
Los Angeles 30.008
Denver 29.883
Dallas/Fort Worth 28.641
...
Las Vegas 21.812
Seattle 21.381
San Francisco 20.995
Charlotte 20.715
Phoenix 20.580
Orlando 20.003
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:02 am

Where are the F9 pilots on here??

Remember when you chose Republic over them and they ran you out of your own hub?

How did that work out for you a decade later?

Still the dumbest move in recent US aviation history

Congrats to WN at DEN
 
strfyr51
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:04 am

william wrote:
For the oldtimers here on Anet, could anyone imagine when Stapleton shut down that in 1995, that 25 years later United and "SWA" would be the largest carriers at DEN?

I can Easily imagine United. Southwest? That's a surprise. I actually thought it would be Frontier but they've shown remarkable stupidity when they have a crown jewel like DEN.
 
BNAMealer
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:10 am

ericm2031 wrote:
LAS seems vulnerable with so much ULCC competition there although a lot of it is very low frequency.


With LAX now a base, the growth at DEN and PHX so close, I wonder if WN will consider dismantling their LAS base eventually? It is very redundant and those resources would be better invested in PHX/DEN/LAX IMO.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:14 am

PacoMartin wrote:
Denver to Honolulu is 5,415 kilometers / 2,924 nautical miles.
MAX-8 has a still air range of 6,570 km / 3,550 nautical miles.
Does anyone think this route is a possibility?

maps4ltd wrote:
How are they going to manage all this growth with their current limited fleet?


I assume that the fleet will be growing by the end of the year, one way or another.

Not with 5,431ft elevation 35+ degrees' temperature (Celsius) during the summer.

Michael
 
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SuseJ772
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:29 am

eamondzhang wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:
Denver to Honolulu is 5,415 kilometers / 2,924 nautical miles.
MAX-8 has a still air range of 6,570 km / 3,550 nautical miles.
Does anyone think this route is a possibility?

maps4ltd wrote:
How are they going to manage all this growth with their current limited fleet?


I assume that the fleet will be growing by the end of the year, one way or another.

Not with 5,431ft elevation 35+ degrees' temperature (Celsius) during the summer.

Michael

Not doubting you. But that surprises me. A 16,000ft runway and that still isn’t enough
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
citationjet
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:54 am

Qantas59 wrote:
Southwest also served DEN briefly from May, 1983 until Sep, 1986. They did much better on the second attempt!


In February 1985, Southwest only flew to PHX and ABQ from DEN.
http://www.departedflights.com/DEN85intro.html
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773,788.
 
B752OS
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:12 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Where are the F9 pilots on here??

Remember when you chose Republic over them and they ran you out of your own hub?

How did that work out for you a decade later?

Still the dumbest move in recent US aviation history

Congrats to WN at DEN


Can you give a tl;dr version of what happened?
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:29 am

SuseJ772 wrote:
Not doubting you. But that surprises me. A 16,000ft runway and that still isn’t enough

You could add a second 16,000ft to that, and it likely wouldn't do you much of any good.... aircraft would likely exceed tire limit before even running afoul of the first length.

No one's doing DEN-HNL in a 78M, even if/when the contraption flies again.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Jshank83
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:33 am

I thought there was talk that DEN-HNL could be done with a MAX7. Is that doable?
 
alasizon
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:45 am

Jshank83 wrote:
I thought there was talk that DEN-HNL could be done with a MAX7. Is that doable?


On a 37M it is doable but the question is can WN get high enough yields compared to using that aircraft elsewhere. A 7.5 hour flight has a pretty high opportunity cost.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
n7371f
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:49 am

Helluva question. And one not being asked enough.


maps4ltd wrote:
alasizon wrote:
ibthebigd wrote:
Will they trim PHX and LAS to be mostly O/D?

As a passenger I try to fly Southwest thru PHX or LAS because of the good weather year around in both cities.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


No, they are also adding more gates in PHX.


How are they going to manage all this growth with their current limited fleet?
 
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intotheair
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:54 am

B752OS wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Where are the F9 pilots on here??

Remember when you chose Republic over them and they ran you out of your own hub?

How did that work out for you a decade later?

Still the dumbest move in recent US aviation history

Congrats to WN at DEN


Can you give a tl;dr version of what happened?


Southwest offered to buy Frontier in 2009. Southwest offered more than Republic during Frontier's bankruptcy proceedings, but Southwest and Frontnier's pilot unions couldn't come to an agreement. The sticking point was that Frontier pilots didn't want to end up relegated to the bottom of the seniority list.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/repub ... 2009-08-13

In hindsight, was Republic a better owner? Maybe not, but I don't think we can blame the F9 pilots for not agreeing to take a serious pay cut just to all become Southwest FOs.
Last edited by intotheair on Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
300 319 320 321 332 333 345 346 380 717 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 762 763 772 77W 788 789 CR2 CR7 CR9 CRK Q400 E175 DC10 MD82 MD90
AA AF AS AY AZ B6 BA BR DL F9 FI GA HA KF LH MI QX SK SN SQ UA US VY WN
 
strfyr51
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:05 am

BNAMealer wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
LAS seems vulnerable with so much ULCC competition there although a lot of it is very low frequency.


With LAX now a base, the growth at DEN and PHX so close, I wonder if WN will consider dismantling their LAS base eventually? It is very redundant and those resources would be better invested in PHX/DEN/LAX IMO.

with the Raiders moving to LAS? I think WN would be shooting off their right Big Toe in leaving LAS. What I suspect will be happening? I think they'll have to expand LAS at the expense of another large station until the 737MAX Airplane are back in service. Especially diring the football season Providing MLB doesn't soon follow the NFL to LAS and the NBA as well..
 
Vctony
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:13 am

ericm2031 wrote:
I don’t think it has been confirmed how many gates in PHX WN will end up with. They’re adding 8, but 7 of the current gates can’t accommodate 738’s so it is thought that they will give some of those back to the city.

LAS seems vulnerable with so much ULCC competition there although a lot of it is very low frequency.


It hasn't been confirmed but most of what I've seen and heard shows WN with all 32 gates on the south side of T4 when all is said and done. The airport needs more gates and so it'll be interesting to see who uses the T3 satellite as well as the "bus gates" being built where T2 currently sits.

I believe that the airport eventually wants to move WN out of T4 and into the new West terminal (whenever that is built) and leave T4 as the legacy hub facility + international terminal.
 
airtrantpa
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:26 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Where are the F9 pilots on here??

Remember when you chose Republic over them and they ran you out of your own hub?

How did that work out for you a decade later?

Still the dumbest move in recent US aviation history

Congrats to WN at DEN


I was going to say YX rejecting FL's planned merger, was the dumbest move in recent us airline history. look how that turned out for YX and their employees.
AirTran: Go there's no stopping you!
712,722,732,733,735,73G,738,739,752,753,762,763,764,772,A318,319,320,320,343,L1011,D8,M82/88/90

flown on all U.S based carriers that have existed since 1991
 
airzona11
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:35 am

Are there mockups of the terminal expansion? I remember flying to Denver from PHX in 2006 when the flights just started. Very cool to see how it’s grown.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:42 am

intotheair wrote:
B752OS wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Where are the F9 pilots on here??

Remember when you chose Republic over them and they ran you out of your own hub?

How did that work out for you a decade later?

Still the dumbest move in recent US aviation history

Congrats to WN at DEN


Can you give a tl;dr version of what happened?


Southwest offered to buy Frontier in 2009. Southwest offered more than Republic during Frontier's bankruptcy proceedings, but Southwest and Frontnier's pilot unions couldn't come to an agreement. The sticking point was that Frontier pilots didn't want to end up relegated to the bottom of the seniority list.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/repub ... 2009-08-13

In hindsight, was Republic a better owner? Maybe not, but I don't think we can blame the F9 pilots for not agreeing to take a serious pay cut just to all become Southwest FOs.

That may well have been short sighted on the F9 pilots part. Pride is a terrible thing if it stands in the way of long term strategy. WN will still get them. Just not as a group.
 
Jshank83
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:59 am

BNAMealer wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
LAS seems vulnerable with so much ULCC competition there although a lot of it is very low frequency.


With LAX now a base, the growth at DEN and PHX so close, I wonder if WN will consider dismantling their LAS base eventually? It is very redundant and those resources would be better invested in PHX/DEN/LAX IMO.


LAX can’t grow any, and I think it’s been pretty flat on growth for awhile for WN. At least until they get the new terminal built which sounds like it is years away. LAS/PHX/DEN they will grow.
 
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william
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:13 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Where are the F9 pilots on here??

Remember when you chose Republic over them and they ran you out of your own hub?

How did that work out for you a decade later?

Still the dumbest move in recent US aviation history

Congrats to WN at DEN


DANG JFK! Pulled out the time machine for that one, ouch!

I agree with you though, imagine what a bigger powerhouse SWA would be if they had all of Concourse A to themselves instead of Concourse C, with direct bridge access to the terminal via the bridge.
Last edited by william on Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
ericm2031
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:14 am

maps4ltd wrote:
alasizon wrote:
ibthebigd wrote:
Will they trim PHX and LAS to be mostly O/D?

As a passenger I try to fly Southwest thru PHX or LAS because of the good weather year around in both cities.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


No, they are also adding more gates in PHX.


How are they going to manage all this growth with their current limited fleet?


These are long term plans and investments. They can't limit their future growth prospects on a short(ish) term problem. Even adding half of these new gates, they'd still have higher gate utilization than they do in PHX, so they need relief with what they are already flying.
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:39 am

Since Denver is almost right in the middle of the USA, it seems like a good place with an airline that only has 737s to expand.

https://www.flightsfrom.com/DEN
 
32andBelow
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:42 am

eamondzhang wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:
Denver to Honolulu is 5,415 kilometers / 2,924 nautical miles.
MAX-8 has a still air range of 6,570 km / 3,550 nautical miles.
Does anyone think this route is a possibility?

maps4ltd wrote:
How are they going to manage all this growth with their current limited fleet?


I assume that the fleet will be growing by the end of the year, one way or another.

Not with 5,431ft elevation 35+ degrees' temperature (Celsius) during the summer.

Michael

People from Denver are going to want to go to Hawaii in the winter.
 
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Acey559
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Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:03 am

32andBelow wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:
Denver to Honolulu is 5,415 kilometers / 2,924 nautical miles.
MAX-8 has a still air range of 6,570 km / 3,550 nautical miles.
Does anyone think this route is a possibility?



I assume that the fleet will be growing by the end of the year, one way or another.

Not with 5,431ft elevation 35+ degrees' temperature (Celsius) during the summer.

Michael

People from Denver are going to want to go to Hawaii in the winter.


Then they can just fly United. :D
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
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PacoMartin
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Joined: Sun May 27, 2018 8:18 pm

Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:03 am

These are the BTS results for domestic enplaned passengers(000) both arriving and departing (December 2018 - November 2019). The December results are not posted yet.

But it looks like Denver is now in the #3 position behind ATL and ORD.
LAX
30,239k Arrival
30,316k Departure

Denver
31,740k Arrival
31,761k Departure

ORD
33,888k Arrival
33,862k Departure

Southwest enplaned passengers(000) both arriving and departing (December 2018 - November 2019) still has slight lead at Midway over DEN
18,594 MDW 95.82% of airport
18,152 DEN 28.58% of airport
16,447 BWI 65.39% of airport
 
BNAMealer
Posts: 783
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:11 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
LAS seems vulnerable with so much ULCC competition there although a lot of it is very low frequency.


With LAX now a base, the growth at DEN and PHX so close, I wonder if WN will consider dismantling their LAS base eventually? It is very redundant and those resources would be better invested in PHX/DEN/LAX IMO.


LAX can’t grow any, and I think it’s been pretty flat on growth for awhile for WN. At least until they get the new terminal built which sounds like it is years away. LAS/PHX/DEN they will grow.


PHX and DEN both have significant new real estate coming online in the next few years. Combine that with the increasing ULCC competition and the close proximity of LAS/PHX/LAX, LAS is pretty redundant at this point. Connections are better flowed through DEN and PHX. I don’t see the need for their LAS base anymore.

Vctony wrote:
It hasn't been confirmed but most of what I've seen and heard shows WN with all 32 gates on the south side of T4 when all is said and done. The airport needs more gates and so it'll be interesting to see who uses the T3 satellite as well as the "bus gates" being built where T2 currently sits.

I believe that the airport eventually wants to move WN out of T4 and into the new West terminal (whenever that is built) and leave T4 as the legacy hub facility + international terminal.


Why does PHX need more gates when AA isn’t fully utilizing their existing ones? It doesn’t make sense to move WN and create more space for AA unless they start utilizing their facilities more.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 7776
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:57 pm

32andBelow wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:
Denver to Honolulu is 5,415 kilometers / 2,924 nautical miles.
MAX-8 has a still air range of 6,570 km / 3,550 nautical miles.
Does anyone think this route is a possibility?



I assume that the fleet will be growing by the end of the year, one way or another.

Not with 5,431ft elevation 35+ degrees' temperature (Celsius) during the summer.

Michael

People from Denver are going to want to go to Hawaii in the winter.


I can't speak to visitors from Denver specifically, but monthly visitor arrivals to Hawaii peak in July. https://dbedt.hawaii.gov/visitor/tourism/

Denver can get some hot days - the on-record high is 40.6C - but the mean high for July is 31C in July, and there's no need to wait until the hottest part of the day to depart. On a June Monday, UA's DEN-HNL/OGG/LIH/KOA flights all depart before noon.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1895
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:05 pm

Vctony wrote:
alasizon wrote:
ibthebigd wrote:
Will they trim PHX and LAS to be mostly O/D?

As a passenger I try to fly Southwest thru PHX or LAS because of the good weather year around in both cities.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


No, they are also adding more gates in PHX.


They have shifted some flights that rely on connections from LAS to DEN. I don’t understand their plan for PHX. It has been a stagnant operation ever since DEN opened but they are expanding their maintenance base and adding 8 gates.


WN historical aircraft turn time gate usage has slowed down since the introduction of the 737-800NG/MAX8.
WN use to on average turn 12 planes per gate.
With the addition of the 800/MAX8 it is now down to 9 per gate. This is because it takes 20 minutes longer to turn a 800 vs 700.
As WN continues to add 800/MAX8 the more gates especially in mega cities there going to need.
It's basically a 50/50 split with turn flexibly and growth.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3447
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:30 pm

BNAMealer wrote:
Jshank83 wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:

With LAX now a base, the growth at DEN and PHX so close, I wonder if WN will consider dismantling their LAS base eventually? It is very redundant and those resources would be better invested in PHX/DEN/LAX IMO.


LAX can’t grow any, and I think it’s been pretty flat on growth for awhile for WN. At least until they get the new terminal built which sounds like it is years away. LAS/PHX/DEN they will grow.


PHX and DEN both have significant new real estate coming online in the next few years. Combine that with the increasing ULCC competition and the close proximity of LAS/PHX/LAX, LAS is pretty redundant at this point. Connections are better flowed through DEN and PHX. I don’t see the need for their LAS base anymore.


LAS is a huge entertainment destination with no legacy hub. Sounds like a pretty good place for a large operation imo. They obviously think the same. WN also has always been one to spread things around. So I don’t see any reason to change what seems to be working for them. They have 40% of the traffic there. Next closest has 10%

They aren’t going to close one of their top 5 stations because of some outside airline pressure. If that was the case they might as well close DEN and most of their other stations and just set up a hub in Boise.
 
User avatar
PacoMartin
Posts: 904
Joined: Sun May 27, 2018 8:18 pm

Re: Southwest adding 16 new gates in Denver, will be WN's largest city

Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:40 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
WN historical aircraft turn time gate usage has slowed down since the introduction of the 737-800NG/MAX8.
WN use to on average turn 12 planes per gate.
With the addition of the 800/MAX8 it is now down to 9 per gate. This is because it takes 20 minutes longer to turn a 800 vs 700.


That is an interesting statistic. From that I can assume:
9 x 175 x 2 x 80% load factor = 2,520 passengers per gate day
12 x 143 x 2 x 80% load factor = 2,746 passengers per gate day

SAN Diego airport is one of the few that reports Gate Utilization rates
Gates
11 Terminal 1 East (Southwest gates)
8 Terminal 1 West
13 Terminal 2 East
15 Terminal 2 West
4 Terminal 2 International
51 Total

Gate Utilization Rate (passengers daily) for 2019
2,360 Terminal 1 East
515 Terminal 1 West
1,326 Terminal 2 East
1,385 Terminal 2 West
245 Terminal 2 International
1,355 Net Gate Utilization

Actual data is a little lower than your estimate, but SAN airport is takeoff limited at night, so that could explain the difference.

As San Diego has been trying to replace Terminal 1 for over a decade, it seems logical that they would report gate utilization rates, but it seems like a useful metric. I wonder why more airports don't report it as part of their traffic reports.

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