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myki
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:32 am

I guess the government can provide support to keep the airlines running, or they can pay unemployment benefits. They will need to consider the cost of either (and not just direct funding costs).
 
aerokiwi
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:36 am

qf2220 wrote:
aerokiwi wrote:
The next debt maturity is in October 2021, which if I'm reading it right, they've already set aside $350 million for. This then reduces their cash on hand to $900 million, still a fair chunk.

Given I think it's pretty likely we'll see some temporary government support - loans, lines of credit, not cash handouts for those that are easily outraged - I think the situation is a little brighter than otherwise portrayed. Don't get me wrong, still extremely serious and likely to result in a massive change to the business and upheaval for staff. Hopefully the government support is able to stave off any further decline in market conditions.

It's going to be a long winter.


What about VA and QF sitting down with some of these debt financiers and renegotiating terms? Id be thinking many airlines will be doing the same thing. I would hope that governments have a hard line on this before any support is given so that the support isnt just about paying back finance companies for debt that has an inherent risk in it.


Oh absolutely. I'd imagine that'll be happening across the whole economy. Debt relief measures, repayment holidays... it's in no one's interests to see the whole economy collapse and have to be rebuilt, aside from short-sellers and liquidity agencies.

I wonder how far along Scurrah was going with the renegotiation of the 330 leases? I think it's absolutely reasonable to expect VA to ground the entire widebody fleet, drastic though that is. I don't know what happens then.

Though I've been wondering about whether or not airfreight might come to the rescue a bit, and is it worth flying empty passenger jets to keep freight on the move? I read a rumour on another thread that Cathay was doing just that out of Hong Kong. QF has the dedicated 767s and 737s but perhaps VA would be willing to use some of that empty cargo hold?
 
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Chipmunk1973
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:55 am

EK413 wrote:
Flyerqf wrote:
We could see all 5 remaining B744 retired early. It’s unlikely the demand will recover enough for them to be required before their planned retirement at end of this year.
With 3 more 789 to join this year, can’t see a need to keep the 744’s now.

I’d say the 3 B789 deliveries would be delayed with the pause button yet again on BNEORD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Bit of a shame about the 747s going early. I’m booked to HND at the end of August and had hoped it would be my last chance to fly one before they’re gone.

c'est la vie
C1973
Cheers,
C1973


B707, B717, B727, B734, B737, B738, B743, B77W, A300, A320, A332, A333, A339, A388, BAe146, Cessna 206.
 
zkncj
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:29 am

Looks like VA has started to pull there AKL-SYD,MEL,BNE flights from sale, if you look at next week all the options to book on there services have been pulled.
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:31 am

zkncj wrote:
Looks like VA has started to pull there AKL-SYD,MEL,BNE flights from sale, if you look at next week all the options to book on there services have been pulled.


They did say a few days ago they would operate to 22 March though that was before Australia announced its measures
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:36 am

SCFlyer wrote:
VA's S&P Ratings Update (17 March 2020). Ratings remain at B-, and VAH knows that ALL of their parents have 'financial' difficulties of their own to come help.

Source: https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20200317/ ... 35m16b.pdf

Although Voluntary Administration for VAH seems unlikely at this stage, the questions remain if any (remaining) interested parties (if any at all) are 'waiting' on VAH to go into 'Voluntary Administration' then to pick up the 'assets' at a 'fire sale' (namely half the 737 fleet and SYD/MEL slots) to start a separate bare-bones domestic operation (without the Virgin licensing fees and the debt from VA).

Or whether if VA are able to ride out the COVID-19 situation (with or without government assistance), with a restructed operation and different/less 'shareholders' at the table (with little to no International Operations left).
Edit: I'm tipping TT is likely to be a goner (before most if not all VA'Intl ops) either way. Even more so for TT if any potential 'government assistance' to VAH was to be tied with conditions.

Keep in mind the contentious contender for VA's assets doesn't exactly have a stellar track history at their overseas investments (NZ/AN, VS, TT, VA, etc). I'd predict that mob would be way too cautious before having a "4th" go at the Australian market.


To be absolutely clear, I think the chance of Virgin Australia going into administration is very low. If it did, however, the likely buyer would be a venture capitalist, such as Texas Pacific Group. By only acquiring the assets they want, for cents on the dollar to boot, it would be an attractive target as the underlying business is sound and the core domestic market will rebound relatively quickly and could be sold for a decent profit in a couple of years.

The purchaser would almost certainly not be another airline, especially in the current market.
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:21 am

zkncj wrote:
Looks like VA has started to pull there AKL-SYD,MEL,BNE flights from sale, if you look at next week all the options to book on there services have been pulled.


I expect Virgin Australia will pretty much exit the NZ market from next week.
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:22 am

Another one bites the trans-Pacific dust: Delta to suspend Sydney-LAX flights from March 18, same day as AA exits SYD-LAX. Surely UA can't be far behind?

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ax-flights
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:40 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
Another one bites the trans-Pacific dust: Delta to suspend Sydney-LAX flights from March 18, same day as AA exits SYD-LAX. Surely UA can't be far behind?

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ax-flights


and with the likelyhood of VA also pulling out of AUS-LAX in general (unless if the JV requires VA to maintain a drastically reduced SYD-LAX schedule), this will likely leave QF (and/or UA) as the remaining two? Either way/outcome MEL/BNE-LAX on VA is likely gone for at least the short/medium term (if not longer/permanent).
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:47 am

SCFlyer wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
Another one bites the trans-Pacific dust: Delta to suspend Sydney-LAX flights from March 18, same day as AA exits SYD-LAX. Surely UA can't be far behind?

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ax-flights


and with the likelyhood of VA also pulling out of AUS-LAX in general (unless if the JV requires VA to maintain a drastically reduced SYD-LAX schedule), this will likely leave QF (and/or UA) as the remaining two?


While individual routes cuts haven't been announced yet, I think the likely outcome for QF long haul network is 1x SYD-LAX, 1x SYD-SIN and 1x PER-LHR, all on 787s.
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Chipmunk1973
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:52 am

When an airline such as QF has a large number of planes not being used for a period of time, what do they do with them?

In the case of the A380 I expect a lot more of the upgrades taking place and I believe someone stated the other day that would most likely be the case.

But what about the 737s and A330s? I’d imagine if any scheduled maintenance is close to being due then that would be performed. And what about the more extensive maintenance like C and D checks. Could they be performed before the accumulation of flight cycles/time?

Cheers,
C1973
Cheers,
C1973


B707, B717, B727, B734, B737, B738, B743, B77W, A300, A320, A332, A333, A339, A388, BAe146, Cessna 206.
 
zkncj
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:09 am

Chipmunk1973 wrote:
But what about the 737s and A330s? I’d imagine if any scheduled maintenance is close to being due then that would be performed. And what about the more extensive maintenance like C and D checks. Could they be performed before the accumulation of flight cycles/time?


Some of the 738s are nearing 20 years old, you might find some of these will never return to service once this is all over.
 
myki
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:15 am

Chipmunk1973 wrote:
When an airline such as QF has a large number of planes not being used for a period of time, what do they do with them?

In the case of the A380 I expect a lot more of the upgrades taking place and I believe someone stated the other day that would most likely be the case.

While many in the world are working at home, or aren't working, or can't work in groups PLUS every airline wanting to do the same to get their maintenance done during this super down time, remember that there are only finite resources to get it done.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:19 am

zkncj wrote:
Chipmunk1973 wrote:
But what about the 737s and A330s? I’d imagine if any scheduled maintenance is close to being due then that would be performed. And what about the more extensive maintenance like C and D checks. Could they be performed before the accumulation of flight cycles/time?


Some of the 738s are nearing 20 years old, you might find some of these will never return to service once this is all over.

Unless demand is on the floor for a significanlt period of time I bet you'll see them coming back pretty quickly, unless of course QF managed to grab some shiny new ntus like A320neo off market. But even then there's a lot of work to put them into service.

Michael
 
cx777fan
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:01 am

Just a thought bubble, I wonder what the logistics would be like to redeploy grounded FAs to work the phones given how unable to cope VA and QF call centres are at present. A week of training? The bigger problem is probably the actual on-shore call centre infrastructure is virtually non-existent now.
 
anstar
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:11 am

cx777fan wrote:
Just a thought bubble, I wonder what the logistics would be like to redeploy grounded FAs to work the phones given how unable to cope VA and QF call centres are at present. A week of training? The bigger problem is probably the actual on-shore call centre infrastructure is virtually non-existent now.


Impossible and EBA's probably wouldn't allow it.
 
aerokiwi
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:23 am

anstar wrote:
cx777fan wrote:
Just a thought bubble, I wonder what the logistics would be like to redeploy grounded FAs to work the phones given how unable to cope VA and QF call centres are at present. A week of training? The bigger problem is probably the actual on-shore call centre infrastructure is virtually non-existent now.


Impossible and EBA's probably wouldn't allow it.


But, in extraordinary circumstances, why not? Surely a labour agreement isn't going to get in the way of people keeping some form of job. Is it?

Clearly the only other option for the carriers is mass redundancies/furloughs of flight crews, while having to staff up in other customer facing areas - I believe NZ is doing just that. Wouldn't that be preferable to no pay at all?

I thought head office staff at airlines like QF and VA sometimes help out in the terminals during peak travel periods. So there must be some flexibility amongst certain groups. Is a government intervention required?
 
aussie747
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:39 am

I have heard fuel excise tax has been withdrawn for the airlines , government aviation charges relief and delayed payroll tax for 6 months (which was expanded from covering small businesses to all businesses) , to help the airlines . This is believed to provide relief to the airlines to the tune of approx $700 AUD million dollars . Source 9news
 
myki
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:56 am

cx777fan wrote:
Just a thought bubble, I wonder what the logistics would be like to redeploy grounded FAs to work the phones given how unable to cope VA and QF call centres are at present.

Manila is under curfew, so people can't get to work there during certain hours. That will be part of the problem for any major company and their call centres.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:08 am

myki wrote:
cx777fan wrote:
Just a thought bubble, I wonder what the logistics would be like to redeploy grounded FAs to work the phones given how unable to cope VA and QF call centres are at present.

Manila is under curfew, so people can't get to work there during certain hours. That will be part of the problem for any major company and their call centres.


Australian companies will be less impacted than North America just by virtue of being on a similar time zone, but if the situation in Manila detereorates further then Virgin Australia could be significantly impacted as the vast majority of their phone agents are based there. I'm fairly certain Jetstar's call centres are also in Manila.

Qantas wouldn't be impacted anywhere near as much, as all of their phone staff (at least those serving calls from Australia) are in Australia or NZ.
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smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:28 am

aerokiwi wrote:
anstar wrote:
cx777fan wrote:
Just a thought bubble, I wonder what the logistics would be like to redeploy grounded FAs to work the phones given how unable to cope VA and QF call centres are at present. A week of training? The bigger problem is probably the actual on-shore call centre infrastructure is virtually non-existent now.


Impossible and EBA's probably wouldn't allow it.


But, in extraordinary circumstances, why not? Surely a labour agreement isn't going to get in the way of people keeping some form of job. Is it?

Clearly the only other option for the carriers is mass redundancies/furloughs of flight crews, while having to staff up in other customer facing areas - I believe NZ is doing just that. Wouldn't that be preferable to no pay at all?

I thought head office staff at airlines like QF and VA sometimes help out in the terminals during peak travel periods. So there must be some flexibility amongst certain groups. Is a government intervention required?


Why upskill FAs when you already have ticketing trained groundstaff who also have no planes or hours at the moment? Not just crew who loose their jobs. NZ has redeployed their domestic groundstaff to contact centres.
 
Lufthansa
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:34 am

cx777fan wrote:
Just a thought bubble, I wonder what the logistics would be like to redeploy grounded FAs to work the phones given how unable to cope VA and QF call centres are at present. A week of training? The bigger problem is probably the actual on-shore call centre infrastructure is virtually non-existent now.


here is your problem. A lot of them won't be GDS literate or only a very basic one.
Many airlines these days use overlays for ground staff but if you're modifying a booking
well you need to be able to get in there manually, particularly in times of disruptions and
change things. Most FA's wont be able to do that without more experience.
If you've done it, its like learning another language.
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:55 am

FWIW: the sister magazine to the now-bimonthly Australian Aviation, 'World of Aviation', has been axed after just two issues. Bad timing? Not sure that coronavirus would have much of an impact on advertising in a 'trade' magazine, maybe a bi-monthly global aviation magazine aimed at every from avgeeks to airline management and the vast circle of suppliers, consultants etc was just too ambitious.

https://twitter.com/thatjohn/status/1239842372122484737
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:16 pm

ANA postponing second SYD flight to 25 April, PER to be reduced to 3 weekly

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... erth-tokyo
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anstar
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:38 pm

aerokiwi wrote:

But, in extraordinary circumstances, why not? Surely a labour agreement isn't going to get in the way of people keeping some form of job. Is it?

Clearly the only other option for the carriers is mass redundancies/furloughs of flight crews, while having to staff up in other customer facing areas - I believe NZ is doing just that. Wouldn't that be preferable to no pay at all?

I thought head office staff at airlines like QF and VA sometimes help out in the terminals during peak travel periods. So there must be some flexibility amongst certain groups. Is a government intervention required?


Yes labour agreements do get in the way...regarding head office staff helping at airports - they are on individual contracts not EBA's.
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:47 pm

aussie747 wrote:
I have heard fuel excise tax has been withdrawn for the airlines , government aviation charges relief and delayed payroll tax for 6 months (which was expanded from covering small businesses to all businesses) , to help the airlines . This is believed to provide relief to the airlines to the tune of approx $700 AUD million dollars . Source 9news


Here’s another article on it

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/aus ... n-dollars/
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:48 pm

All Cebu Pacific flights cancelled till 14 April at the earliest

https://twitter.com/flightintl/status/1 ... 90754?s=21
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:53 pm

Indonesia including Bali will close its borders to all tourists from Friday for 1 month

https://twitter.com/renaehenry9/status/ ... 11457?s=21
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:11 pm

Qantas to launch its new points club on Wednesday

https://twitter.com/ausbt/status/123990 ... 11715?s=21
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FL420FT
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:58 pm

The previous posts regarding FA's taking phone calls has actually made it to leadership level..

Logistically, it will be a bit of a small challenge. Issues facing this including having several dozen Laptops / PC's set up available with the correct applications. Training, even on a very basic / rushed scenario of the telephone sales policy's / procedures will be a couple of weeks. Once the training is finished, there are the real world situations that will arise which will require a 'floor walker' to assist with the questions the FA's will definitely be asking.
If it all falls into place, then the Airport staff (who will equally be not be working as much), will also be saying 'hey if the FA's get this opportunities, why can't we'.
 
zkncj
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:20 pm

qf789 wrote:
Indonesia including Bali will close its borders to all tourists from Friday for 1 month

https://twitter.com/renaehenry9/status/ ... 11457?s=21


Probably explains why my AKL-BNE-DPS flights in April are now showing in canceled in the VA App.
 
myki
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:38 pm

zkncj wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Indonesia including Bali will close its borders to all tourists from Friday for 1 month

https://twitter.com/renaehenry9/status/ ... 11457?s=21


Probably explains why my AKL-BNE-DPS flights in April are now showing in canceled in the VA App.

VA wouldn't know if you are tourist, citizen, dual nationality, have a particular visa, etc. My guess is that one or both of the flights are not operating now.
 
zkncj
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:43 pm

myki wrote:
zkncj wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Indonesia including Bali will close its borders to all tourists from Friday for 1 month

https://twitter.com/renaehenry9/status/ ... 11457?s=21


Probably explains why my AKL-BNE-DPS flights in April are now showing in canceled in the VA App.

VA wouldn't know if you are tourist, citizen, dual nationality, have a particular visa, etc. My guess is that one or both of the flights are not operating now.


It looks like everything VA on the Tasman is canceled for the next few months.
 
aerokiwi
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:44 pm

FL420FT wrote:
The previous posts regarding FA's taking phone calls has actually made it to leadership level..

Logistically, it will be a bit of a small challenge. Issues facing this including having several dozen Laptops / PC's set up available with the correct applications. Training, even on a very basic / rushed scenario of the telephone sales policy's / procedures will be a couple of weeks. Once the training is finished, there are the real world situations that will arise which will require a 'floor walker' to assist with the questions the FA's will definitely be asking.
If it all falls into place, then the Airport staff (who will equally be not be working as much), will also be saying 'hey if the FA's get this opportunities, why can't we'.


No doubt a complex thing to manage but presumably less difficult than recruiting new employees altogether.

Thanks for the correction smi006 re NZ. Makes sense to use the most closely skills matched staff first.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:58 pm

FL420FT wrote:
Logistically, it will be a bit of a small challenge. Issues facing this including having several dozen Laptops / PC's set up available with the correct applications. Training, even on a very basic / rushed scenario of the telephone sales policy's / procedures will be a couple of weeks. Once the training is finished, there are the real world situations that will arise which will require a 'floor walker' to assist with the questions the FA's will definitely be asking.
If it all falls into place, then the Airport staff (who will equally be not be working as much), will also be saying 'hey if the FA's get this opportunities, why can't we'.


I cannot see if being feasible, especially because the vast majority of calls are either going to be cancellation (which admittedly is fairly straightforward) or rebooking and ticket reissue (potentially very complex). Now is not the time to be training up new staff. It will just divert existing staff to train and supervise them.

To reiterate what Lufthansa said, learning manual GDS commands is like learning a new language. It can take weeks to gain even basic knowledge and months to become proficient.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
aerokiwi
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:03 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
FL420FT wrote:
Logistically, it will be a bit of a small challenge. Issues facing this including having several dozen Laptops / PC's set up available with the correct applications. Training, even on a very basic / rushed scenario of the telephone sales policy's / procedures will be a couple of weeks. Once the training is finished, there are the real world situations that will arise which will require a 'floor walker' to assist with the questions the FA's will definitely be asking.
If it all falls into place, then the Airport staff (who will equally be not be working as much), will also be saying 'hey if the FA's get this opportunities, why can't we'.


I cannot see if being feasible, especially because the vast majority of calls are either going to be cancellation (which admittedly is fairly straightforward) or rebooking and ticket reissue (potentially very complex). Now is not the time to be training up new staff. It will just divert existing staff to train and supervise them.

To reiterate what Lufthansa said, learning manual GDS commands is like learning a new language. It can take weeks to gain even basic knowledge and months to become proficient.


There may be a number of enquiries that can be managed without undertaking booking changes. Effectively a triage operation, providing reassurance and guidance to less immediate travellers and taking the burden off the experts dealing with passengers with more immediate needs (I.e. travel within the week).

This buys time for the airlines to ramp up contingency plans, relieves the burden on the booking staff and gives some degree of confidence to customers.

I worked in the agency that had to respond to the Canterbury earthquakes and increased its call centre from about 20 people to over 1200 in a couple of weeks. It was incredibly difficult, particularly getting people from scratch, and that's in a more flexible labour market.

But people always prefer a voice over a website. And with IT systems the way they are now, there's opportunity for that type of staff to work from home for safety as well.
 
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Chipmunk1973
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:09 pm

Just read in the Brisbane Times that all VAs International flights cancelled from March 30.

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/busine ... 54b7b.html

Rgds,
C1973
Cheers,
C1973


B707, B717, B727, B734, B737, B738, B743, B77W, A300, A320, A332, A333, A339, A388, BAe146, Cessna 206.
 
Captdasbomb
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:48 pm

cx777fan wrote:
Just a thought bubble, I wonder what the logistics would be like to redeploy grounded FAs to work the phones given how unable to cope VA and QF call centres are at present. A week of training? The bigger problem is probably the actual on-shore call centre infrastructure is virtually non-existent now.


Thought bubble. Just do it online
 
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QuayWeeAir
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:13 pm

Virgin Australia Suspending All International Flights

https://newsroom.virginaustralia.com/re ... e-covid-19

Key points:

* Suspension of all international flying from 30 March to 14 June 2020

* Group domestic capacity reduction of 50 per cent until 14 June 2020

* Temporary grounding of the equivalent of 53 aircraft from the Group’s fleet

* Dedicated customer care hub for impacted guests at virginaustralia.com
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:35 pm

Captdasbomb wrote:
cx777fan wrote:
Just a thought bubble, I wonder what the logistics would be like to redeploy grounded FAs to work the phones given how unable to cope VA and QF call centres are at present. A week of training? The bigger problem is probably the actual on-shore call centre infrastructure is virtually non-existent now.


Thought bubble. Just do it online


Qantas at least aren't allowing you to rebook online if your flight has been cancelled and you aren't happy with the reaccommodation option provided.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:38 pm

aerokiwi wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
FL420FT wrote:
Logistically, it will be a bit of a small challenge. Issues facing this including having several dozen Laptops / PC's set up available with the correct applications. Training, even on a very basic / rushed scenario of the telephone sales policy's / procedures will be a couple of weeks. Once the training is finished, there are the real world situations that will arise which will require a 'floor walker' to assist with the questions the FA's will definitely be asking.
If it all falls into place, then the Airport staff (who will equally be not be working as much), will also be saying 'hey if the FA's get this opportunities, why can't we'.


I cannot see if being feasible, especially because the vast majority of calls are either going to be cancellation (which admittedly is fairly straightforward) or rebooking and ticket reissue (potentially very complex). Now is not the time to be training up new staff. It will just divert existing staff to train and supervise them.

To reiterate what Lufthansa said, learning manual GDS commands is like learning a new language. It can take weeks to gain even basic knowledge and months to become proficient.


There may be a number of enquiries that can be managed without undertaking booking changes. Effectively a triage operation, providing reassurance and guidance to less immediate travellers and taking the burden off the experts dealing with passengers with more immediate needs (I.e. travel within the week).

This buys time for the airlines to ramp up contingency plans, relieves the burden on the booking staff and gives some degree of confidence to customers.

I worked in the agency that had to respond to the Canterbury earthquakes and increased its call centre from about 20 people to over 1200 in a couple of weeks. It was incredibly difficult, particularly getting people from scratch, and that's in a more flexible labour market.

But people always prefer a voice over a website. And with IT systems the way they are now, there's opportunity for that type of staff to work from home for safety as well.


I guess that could work, especially as a triage system that either offers a comforting voice to tell you they will sort things out and call back nearer the time, or transfer your call to a fully trained agent, without actually having to make reissues.

I have no idea about EBA issues.
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:05 am

Regarding VA all wide bodies will be grounded plus 34 737’s, 6 A320’s and 2 ATR’s

https://twitter.com/avweekscho/status/1 ... 57536?s=21
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smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:17 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
aerokiwi wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:

I cannot see if being feasible, especially because the vast majority of calls are either going to be cancellation (which admittedly is fairly straightforward) or rebooking and ticket reissue (potentially very complex). Now is not the time to be training up new staff. It will just divert existing staff to train and supervise them.

To reiterate what Lufthansa said, learning manual GDS commands is like learning a new language. It can take weeks to gain even basic knowledge and months to become proficient.


There may be a number of enquiries that can be managed without undertaking booking changes. Effectively a triage operation, providing reassurance and guidance to less immediate travellers and taking the burden off the experts dealing with passengers with more immediate needs (I.e. travel within the week).

This buys time for the airlines to ramp up contingency plans, relieves the burden on the booking staff and gives some degree of confidence to customers.

I worked in the agency that had to respond to the Canterbury earthquakes and increased its call centre from about 20 people to over 1200 in a couple of weeks. It was incredibly difficult, particularly getting people from scratch, and that's in a more flexible labour market.

But people always prefer a voice over a website. And with IT systems the way they are now, there's opportunity for that type of staff to work from home for safety as well.


I guess that could work, especially as a triage system that either offers a comforting voice to tell you they will sort things out and call back nearer the time, or transfer your call to a fully trained agent, without actually having to make reissues.

I have no idea about EBA issues.


I still don’t understand why you would prioritise the FA working group over ground staff who if not ticketing and reservations trained themselves, have a fundamental understanding of coupons, reservations etc? And have logins for the systems already?

Time times for all in the industry, tech and cabin crew are no different to the rest of us having our hours and lively hoods cut. Everyone is buckling down to do our best for our colleagues and make cuts where possible. Airline folk are resilient and caring we’ll look out for each other and get through this somehow even if our industry dramatically contracts.
 
aerokiwi
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Wed Mar 18, 2020 2:30 am

smi0006 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
aerokiwi wrote:

There may be a number of enquiries that can be managed without undertaking booking changes. Effectively a triage operation, providing reassurance and guidance to less immediate travellers and taking the burden off the experts dealing with passengers with more immediate needs (I.e. travel within the week).

This buys time for the airlines to ramp up contingency plans, relieves the burden on the booking staff and gives some degree of confidence to customers.

I worked in the agency that had to respond to the Canterbury earthquakes and increased its call centre from about 20 people to over 1200 in a couple of weeks. It was incredibly difficult, particularly getting people from scratch, and that's in a more flexible labour market.

But people always prefer a voice over a website. And with IT systems the way they are now, there's opportunity for that type of staff to work from home for safety as well.


I guess that could work, especially as a triage system that either offers a comforting voice to tell you they will sort things out and call back nearer the time, or transfer your call to a fully trained agent, without actually having to make reissues.

I have no idea about EBA issues.


I still don’t understand why you would prioritise the FA working group over ground staff who if not ticketing and reservations trained themselves, have a fundamental understanding of coupons, reservations etc? And have logins for the systems already?

Time times for all in the industry, tech and cabin crew are no different to the rest of us having our hours and lively hoods
cut. Everyone is buckling down to do our best for our colleagues and make cuts where possible. Airline folk are resilient and caring we’ll look out for each other and get through this somehow even if our industry dramatically contracts.


I mean, sure, start with ground crew, then - it's not a personal slight against any one employee group. But does their EBA allow it? My point was that you'd hope there would be flexibility in times like this to redeploy staff from inoperable parts of the business to areas where there is a need, and that EBAs aren't barrier. Hopefully common sense prevails if it comes to that.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Wed Mar 18, 2020 2:56 am

United to drop MEL-LAX, SYD-LAX and SYD-IAH from 23 March through to 3 May, SFO stays for both SYD and MEL

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ax-flights
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:08 am

An airline we might need to be concerned about is REX. Not a lot of cash in buffer to help this one ride it out....
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:18 am

qf2220 wrote:
An airline we might need to be concerned about is REX. Not a lot of cash in buffer to help this one ride it out....

As PS said during his media conference today, if this drags on there will be few, if any, airlines around the world that will survive without government help.
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:48 am

tullamarine wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
An airline we might need to be concerned about is REX. Not a lot of cash in buffer to help this one ride it out....

As PS said during his media conference today, if this drags on there will be few, if any, airlines around the world that will survive without government help.

I know this was mentioned in the last thread, with VA dealing with their own financial challenges ahead what are the chances of Rex being absorbed by QF? The impact collapse of Rex would have on the regional market is unbearable.


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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:05 am

EK413 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
An airline we might need to be concerned about is REX. Not a lot of cash in buffer to help this one ride it out....

As PS said during his media conference today, if this drags on there will be few, if any, airlines around the world that will survive without government help.

I know this was mentioned in the last thread, with VA dealing with their own financial challenges ahead what are the chances of Rex being absorbed by QF? The impact collapse of Rex would have on the regional market is unbearable.

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I think VA would be the better fit and get better value from a ZL merger but they may not hav the cash to do so.

Alliance might be one that could take them in too...
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - March 2020

Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:06 am

EK413 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
An airline we might need to be concerned about is REX. Not a lot of cash in buffer to help this one ride it out....

As PS said during his media conference today, if this drags on there will be few, if any, airlines around the world that will survive without government help.

I know this was mentioned in the last thread, with VA dealing with their own financial challenges ahead what are the chances of Rex being absorbed by QF? The impact collapse of Rex would have on the regional market is unbearable.


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If this drags on much longer, let alone for six months as intimated by the PM today, QF won't be in a position to be buying anyone anytime soon either.

Rex will be bailed out by the federal government, you are correct that they are too important to regional markets for them to go under.
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