Indian Aviation Thread - March 2020

sand26391 · Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:05 pm

Seems like SEA-BLR flight is bookable through AAdvantage miles.....
https://twitter.com/JTGenter/status/1234149224830373899

edealinfo · Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:55 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
...With Subramanium Swanmee breathing down their necks..

I think he already ruined Tata's chance. Any Tata-owned airline will have a tough time getting the US Department of Treasury clearance to start or continue US ops. Of course, GoI may pull out all the stops. Do some offline research, google "Delhi HC orders ED pgurus". On the surface Swamy made it look like an Air Asia issue, so PMO doesn't interfere, but he was setting the stage to screw the crown jewel of aviation.

So, who is Swamy favoring to get Air India? Obviously he can't stop the sale but presumably can somewhat influence who gets the baby.

edealinfo · Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:56 pm

airboss787 wrote:

But none of those codeshares go beyond LHR, as of today. So unless they enhance that, there's very little advantage to being at LHR.

Fair point.

edealinfo · Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:11 pm

VTORD wrote:
In fact I would go so far as to argue that NRT wouldn't be such a bad idea for Vistara:

This makes no sense to me for the following reasons:

1. Narita is in to boondocks so to speak and is TWICE the distance from the Tokyo City center as Haneda. Unless you are implying that business passengers enjoy the views of a longer ride.

2. Business passengers prefer convenience. Why do you think JAL and ANA instantly decided to move from Narita to Haneda.

3. This market (Delhi- Japan) is all about O & D (connections to N. America is an afterthought). The choice of the airport for O & D MATTERS.

4. JAL and Vistara will only have a codeshare not a joint venture on this route. This means that its in each individual carrier's interest to get as many higher paying passengers on its metal than the other.

5. Vistara is already starting with a disadvantage even in economy. 9 passengers abreast versus JAL's 8 and JAL's economy received best economy class ranking from Syktrax. Further, Japenese passengers, by a huge margin prefer flying their own carrier (for language, space, food, familiarity, etc.)

6. If JAL is asking Vistara to use Narita despite a free platinum slot at Hanenda, that's, as an analogy like British Airways telling Vistara - hey, I heard you can get a $35 million intrinsic value slot at LHR for free but why don't you instead fly to Stanstead airport since we already have LHR nicely covered. Wouldn't it be great for passengers to have a choice of also flying to Stanstead, rather than LHR, which we nicely cover anyway. And, guess what, we will codeshare on this flight of yours to Stanstead and also on our flights to LHR. Do we have a deal, now? Which flights do you thing the premium paying passengers will choose? Who is the big loser here? I stand by my comment that if Vistara picks Narita they have been totally outmaneuvered, outwitted, and heck, conned (for lack of a more polished word) by JAL.

edealinfo · Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:35 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
...With Subramanium Swanmee breathing down their necks..

I think he already ruined Tata's chance. Any Tata-owned airline will have a tough time getting the US Department of Treasury clearance to start or continue US ops. Of course, GoI may pull out all the stops. Do some offline research, google "Delhi HC orders ED pgurus". On the surface Swamy made it look like an Air Asia issue, so PMO doesn't interfere, but he was setting the stage to screw the crown jewel of aviation.

What’s Swanee’s beef with the Tatas?

vadodara · Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:25 pm

Looks like NRT is headed to be the LCC hub. If so what would make Vistara fly there?

If anything this might be Air Asia turf but for such a long route it is doubtful the LCC model would work.

VTORD · Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:48 pm

edealinfo wrote:

This makes no sense to me for the following reasons:

1. Narita is in to boondocks so to speak and is TWICE the distance from the Tokyo City center as Haneda. Unless you are implying that business passengers enjoy the views of a longer ride.

47 miles from one of the most populous cities in the world is not "the boondocks". If you really want to know what the boondocks is, try an airport called Joplin, MO.

edealinfo wrote:
3. This market (Delhi- Japan) is all about O & D (connections to N. America is an afterthought). The choice of the airport for O & D MATTERS.

Pretty rich for someone who has been literally and repeatedly harping incessantly about connections to NA. Did you even read points 2, 3 and 4 in my post or were you too busy "reading between the lines" per usual?

edealinfo wrote:
4. JAL and Vistara will only have a codeshare not a joint venture on this route. This means that its in each individual carrier's interest to get as many higher paying passengers on its metal than the other.

You are going to explain the difference between a codeshare and a JV to me? Also rich for someone who has been ad-nauseam calling a 1-way codeshare to 13 domestic destinations a "partnership with BA" and over the top BS like "BA stabbed Vistara in the back by not helping them out in LHR slots"!

edealinfo wrote:
5. Vistara is already starting with a disadvantage even in economy. 9 passengers abreast versus JAL's 8 and JAL's economy received best economy class ranking from Syktrax. Further, Japenese passengers, by a huge margin prefer flying their own carrier (for language, space, food, familiarity, etc.)

Then why bother starting the route in the first place.

edealinfo wrote:
6. If JAL is asking Vistara to use Narita despite a free platinum slot at Hanenda, that's, as an analogy like British Airways telling Vistara - hey, I heard you can get a $35 million intrinsic value slot at LHR for free but why don't you instead fly to Stanstead airport since we already have LHR nicely covered. Wouldn't it be great for passengers to have a choice of also flying to Stanstead, rather than LHR, which we nicely cover anyway. And, guess what, we will codeshare on this flight of yours to Stanstead and also on our flights to LHR. Do we have a deal, now? Which flights do you thing the premium paying passengers will choose? Who is the big loser here? I stand by my comment that if Vistara picks Narita they have been totally outmaneuvered, outwitted, and heck, conned (for lack of a more polished word) by JAL.

I do not need silly cliched analogies to be explained a situation I fully understand back to me! My entire post was speculative (My personal opinion) on what could be an option for Vistara incase the HND slot falls in the lose it category after March 29th as YOU have been claiming without providing a published verifiable source for literally every third post in this forum. "May not be such a bad idea" does not mean "it is a good idea"! But people who are habituated to read between the lines all the time do not necessarily read the literal.

Look buddy, if you want to engage in childish posting and deliberate spelling mistakes of the most simple names and words, by all means have at it. I am done engaging with you. I do not need to lower the level of my discourse or of this forum. Thanks!

edealinfo · Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:06 am

Rainer777, who is active on the separate Haneda slot thread, made the statement about the March 29 requirement which I have restated. I have further restated on this forum several times, that the march 29 date is likely extendable because of the caronavirus and because India and Japan can always work it out because of the excellent relations. So, March 29 shouldn’t be an issue which you now make it out to be. The choice is very clear, Haneda or Narita for Vistara’s picking. As an analogy, oh, wait a minute.... you don’t like analogies because it really drives home my point on Vistara’s choice. I stand by my contention, that this one is Vistara’s to lose (or gain, based on the choice).

edealinfo · Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:24 am

Narita is a downright bad choice when compared to the free coveted daytime slot pair at Haneda, available to Vistara on a titanium platter. This opportunity hasn’t been around for the last 4 decades and won’t be available At least for the next 6 decades. And, airlines can’t buy a Haneda slot like they can at LHR. Additionally, the costs to operate to Haneda or Narita are roughly the same so the revenue potential is the differentiator.
The intrinsic value of the slot is in using it to generate premium revenue. If Vistara can’t make Haneda work, there is zero chance Narita ever will.

edealinfo · Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:21 am

Per today's Hindustan Times newspaper, in 2019, 65 of Air India’s "young" co-pilots, who were to be promoted to the post of ‘pilot in command’, quit the airline due to uncertainty over its future.

“There was uncertainty towards the airline privatisation in 2018, due to which only one pilot had quit in that year. However, it was only when the government commenced the privatisation process for a second time and issued the expression of interests (EoI), that the pilots started quitting in 2019,” said a senior airline pilot.

Ishrion · Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:39 am

Anyone know what time the Vistara's 787 ceremony is today?

edealinfo · Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:22 am

VTORD wrote:
as YOU have been claiming without providing a published verifiable source[/u]

https://livefromalounge.boardingarea.co ... don-tokyo/

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1429637&p=21954289#p21954289

qf789 · Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:33 am

Two of Vistara's 789's (ex HNA) all taped up at PAE (26 Feb)

https://twitter.com/KPAE_Spotter/status ... 70560?s=20

oceanvikram · Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:44 am

edealinfo wrote:
Narita is a downright bad choice when compared to the free coveted daytime slot pair at Haneda, available to Vistara on a titanium platter. This opportunity hasn’t been around for the last 4 decades and won’t be available At least for the next 6 decades. And, airlines can’t buy a Haneda slot like they can at LHR. Additionally, the costs to operate to Haneda or Narita are roughly the same so the revenue potential is the differentiator.
The intrinsic value of the slot is in using it to generate premium revenue. If Vistara can’t make Haneda work, there is zero chance Narita ever will.

I can not argue with your logic, they are all valid. But at the end of the day business travellers will book their flights on JAL or ANA, the Japanese will book their flights on JAL or ANA. These are the markets that have money. So whether it is Haneda or Narita would not matter to the Indian traveller who is paying out their own pocket.

Also someone posted about Indians travelling to Japan for a holiday. Sure there are, but how many in a year? Out of 1.3 billion only 200 million can even consider travelling overseas. And of those they would first travel to Dubai, Singapore, Bangkok, Europe or the US. This is the reality and all of them will be happy to pay Rs4,000 less per ticket and fly to Bristol than Gatwick.

At the end of the day India is a third world country and using first world logic does not work … it gets airlines bankrupt. If anything, Ethiopian has figured the perfect balance of providing a good enough service and being profitable.

So if Haneda or LHR slots are free, by all means Vistara should fly to them, if not stick to Gatwick and Narita.

fiestyemus · Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:11 am

Vistara's 787 interiors revealed- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYhfG0k5fh0

sibibom · Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:26 am

fiestyemus wrote:
Vistara's 787 interiors revealed- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYhfG0k5fh0

The Business Class is the same as SQ's regional business class on B787-10

edealinfo · Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:20 pm

sibibom wrote:
fiestyemus wrote:
Vistara's 787 interiors revealed- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYhfG0k5fh0

The Business Class is the same as SQ's regional business class on B787-10

1. If it’s the same as SQ’s “regional” business class, does this mean a huge downgrade, “relatively” when compared to other airlines flying on routes 8 to 10 hours?

2. And is this layout Vistara’s so called “ big” announcement for March 2 for which they had released several promotional videos and engaged in a Twitter and Facebook promotional campaign?

Flywithus · Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:17 pm

edealinfo wrote:
sibibom wrote:
fiestyemus wrote:
Vistara's 787 interiors revealed- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYhfG0k5fh0

The Business Class is the same as SQ's regional business class on B787-10

1. If it’s the same as SQ’s “regional” business class, does this mean a huge downgrade, “relatively” when compared to other airlines flying on routes 8 to 10 hours?

2. And is this layout Vistara’s so called “ big” announcement for March 2 for which they had released several promotional videos and engaged in a Twitter and Facebook promotional campaign?

It's not that bad of a seat. Flew TK IST-IAD and it was decent. Not as great in terms of privacy like Qsuites. Personally I'd take these over reverse herringbone.

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

DIJKKIJK · Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:36 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:

I think he already ruined Tata's chance. Any Tata-owned airline will have a tough time getting the US Department of Treasury clearance to start or continue US ops. Of course, GoI may pull out all the stops. Do some offline research, google "Delhi HC orders ED pgurus". On the surface Swamy made it look like an Air Asia issue, so PMO doesn't interfere, but he was setting the stage to screw the crown jewel of aviation.

So, who is Swamy favoring to get Air India? Obviously he can't stop the sale but presumably can somewhat influence who gets the baby.[/quote]

Swamy has not such clout either in the US or India. He can do sweet FA to influence any deal or any access to the US market. He may file a case or two, but Swamy's lawsuits are possibly the biggest jokes in India's courts right now.

If anything is screwed, it is Swamy's reputation, not that he had any in the first place.

edealinfo · Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:47 pm

Vistara considering a bid for Air India, says chairman Bhaskar Bhat

Bhat was speaking at the unveiling of Vistara's first Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner plane at Delhi airport.
(Does anyone have more info about the unveiling ceremony; did they for instance announce routes or are they awaiting physical delivery of the second 787 before announcing it?)

Per today’s Business Standard newspaper

edealinfo · Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:05 pm

https://onemileatatime.com/vistara-787/

This good article on Vistara’s 787 states the following:
1. the Indian routes in March will be between Delhi and Mumbai (not Bangalore)
2. The first flight will be to London (not Japan)
3. The corona virus has put them in a pickle.

edealinfo · Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:11 pm

Only 10 passengers on Singapore bound Air India plane. Wow, people must be really scared of the coronavirus although Singapore has very high health standards.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.moneyc ... 1.html/amp

edealinfo · Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:36 pm

per Live Mint

The schedule for 3 MORE 787 deliveries are as follows;
March
MAy
June or July

Vistara is exploring flights to Moscow, Frankfurt, London, and Paris.

First A321 to be delivered by March-end

edealinfo · Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:52 pm

per Live Mint

The schedule for 3 MORE 787 deliveries are as follows;
March
MAy
June or July

Vistara is exploring flights to Moscow, Frankfurt, London, and Paris.

First A321 to be delivered by March-end

airboss787 · Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:39 pm

edealinfo wrote:
VTORD wrote:
as YOU have been claiming without providing a published verifiable source[/u]

https://livefromalounge.boardingarea.co ... don-tokyo/

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1429637&p=21954289#p21954289

Never trust blogs. Blogs are not verifiable or reliable as sources. They are mostly just opinions, including the linked article.

subramak1 · Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:57 pm

edealinfo wrote:
VTORD wrote:
RE NAG:
Yeah that's an interesting route. But what is more interesting is that the minister in question has been out of power for 6 years now and the route still exists. Unless QR is trying to appease the philosophical alma mater of Narendra Modi who are HQ'd in Nagpur.
.

The QR route to Nagpur succeeds for the following reasons:

1. QR is blocked from further expansion in India. While traffic between India and Doha, and India and the rest of the world, has grown substantially, and with EK, QR and EY blocked, people use existing routes to the fullest.

2. QR is the only carrier that offers NAGpur residents an outlet to the world. (Air Arabia is nothing, "in comparison").

Nagpur by itself is a failry big city. For VFR travel from NA to Vidarbha region QR is the only option. Not only Nagpur , even folks from Jhakhand like QR for the same reason

Subu

sand26391 · Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:44 pm

American Airlines opens booking for BLR-SEA flight wef 25OCT.

CaliguyNYC · Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:21 pm

I really like Vistara’s J and premium Y seats. Direct aisle access and the new feel. I am glad they didn’t go with a Q suite type of seat. Indian airlines need a bit more dense capacity to make the economics work and truth be told those “doors” add very little. What I really liked about Jet was their food selection, dine on demand and service. if Vistara offers something similar then who cares about a door.

CaliguyNYC · Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:08 pm

sand26391 wrote:
American Airlines opens booking for BLR-SEA flight wef 25OCT.

Happy that AA is back to India and happy that BLR got a US nonstop. While I understand why AA chose SEA for the flight, I still think it is sad that SFO-BLR hasn’t happened. Maybe UA will now launch it. Not saying that I know the route would be profitable, but it would really help BLR’s economy. SFO is probably BLR’s most important business pair after BOM

edealinfo · Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:58 pm

edealinfo wrote:
per Live Mint

Vistara is exploring flights to Moscow, Frankfurt, London, and Paris.

They had over a year to plan and they still haven’t made up their mind where they want to fly (while lease and other fixed payments on the 787s will begin to pile up). So, is this the best brains at Tatas and sIngapore Airlines? And, they want to take over Air India? O’dear.

Maybe Vistara ought to outsource route planning to bloggers who seem far more apt at strategic planning.

edealinfo · Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:04 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
I still think it is sad that SFO-BLR hasn’t happened. Maybe UA will now launch it.

Is it even technically feasible with their existing aircraft? They might need specially modified aircraft (like the one Quantas uses from Australia to London) and UA ain’t going to order 2 of those just for the BLR route.

edealinfo · Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:42 pm

From Business Standard - Vistara refuses to pay for LHR slots and instead will leave its fate to LHR’s worse chances than being struck by lightening lottery system

“Unavailability of slots at Heathrow has forced Vistara to plan its London flight into Gatwick Airport- the city’s secondary airport which isn’t popular among full service airlines. “Anyone who operates to London ideally wants Heathrow Airport. We tried a lot but finding a slot in Heathrow is quite impossible at this point of time. No one wants to give up. We may start with Gatwick and shift to Heathrow whenever slots are available,” a Vistara executive said.

edealinfo · Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:39 am

Per Business Standard newspaper—- Air India crew on Delhi to Vienna flight quarantined after passenger tests positive to corona virus Meanwhile the 200 plus passengers on the same flight are not quarantined. go figure!

“After the Union Health Ministry announced on Monday that a Delhi resident has tested positive for novel coronavirus, the Air India crew who had flown the Vienna-Delhi flight on February 25 on which he was the passenger have been asked to stay in isolation at their homes for 14 days, officials said.“

CaliguyNYC · Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:12 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
...With Subramanium Swanmee breathing down their necks..

I think he already ruined Tata's chance. Any Tata-owned airline will have a tough time getting the US Department of Treasury clearance to start or continue US ops. Of course, GoI may pull out all the stops. Do some offline research, google "Delhi HC orders ED pgurus". On the surface Swamy made it look like an Air Asia issue, so PMO doesn't interfere, but he was setting the stage to screw the crown jewel of aviation.

Sorry not understanding why would a TATA owned airline not get to fly to the US? Running an airline in INdia is super messy. I’d take Tatas running AI over the GOI any day.

vadodara · Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:27 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
...With Subramanium Swanmee breathing down their necks..

I think he already ruined Tata's chance. Any Tata-owned airline will have a tough time getting the US Department of Treasury clearance to start or continue US ops. Of course, GoI may pull out all the stops. Do some offline research, google "Delhi HC orders ED pgurus". On the surface Swamy made it look like an Air Asia issue, so PMO doesn't interfere, but he was setting the stage to screw the crown jewel of aviation.

Sorry not understanding why would a TATA owned airline not get to fly to the US? Running an airline in INdia is super messy. I’d take Tatas running AI over the GOI any day.

If anyone, it was Naresh Goyal who ruined Tata's chances for Air India. Why drag Subramaniam Swamy in this discussion!

dtw2hyd · Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:29 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
...With Subramanium Swanmee breathing down their necks..

I think he already ruined Tata's chance. Any Tata-owned airline will have a tough time getting the US Department of Treasury clearance to start or continue US ops. Of course, GoI may pull out all the stops. Do some offline research, google "Delhi HC orders ED pgurus". On the surface Swamy made it look like an Air Asia issue, so PMO doesn't interfere, but he was setting the stage to screw the crown jewel of aviation.

Sorry not understanding why would a TATA owned airline not get to fly to the US? Running an airline in INdia is super messy. I’d take Tatas running AI over the GOI any day.

Well, every time I post something one group doesn't like it gets reported for deletion, even facts. So I am not going to waste a lot of keystrokes.

Google the highlighted portion and follow the Reference link from December 2, 2016. AFAIK, the US Treasury doesn't allow airlines/owners who have dealings with sanctioned entities. I could be wrong in my opinion.

edealinfo · Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:04 am

Of the 2 new American Airlines long haul routes from Seattle- to BLR and London. Delta fights back by adding a non stop of its own to LHR. Will BLR be next?
https://simpleflying.com/delta-takes-ai ... ouncement/

VTORD · Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:28 am

dtw2hyd wrote:

Google the highlighted portion and follow the Reference link from December 2, 2016. AFAIK, the US Treasury doesn't allow airlines/owners who have dealings with sanctioned entities. I could be wrong in my opinion.

I did. Exactly this: "Delhi HC orders ED pgurus". If you google some key terms from the main article, you will stumble upon some news stories from 2018 stating that NCLT has cleared the involvement in alleged terror links/funding. The Bloomberg Quint story is actually very detailed.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... m-by-court

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 002716.cms

https://www.bloombergquint.com/business ... ted-by-cbi

If Vistara was to be docked for having dealings with sanctioned entities, Boeing would probably not have been able to sell them the 789s either.

edealinfo · Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:53 pm

SeanM1997 wrote:
Air India will maintain 10x weekly flights between Mumbai and London Heathrow in Summer 2020. Daily flights on B777 and additional flights on Tuesdays, Thursdays & Saturdays on B787

Air India will have 31 weekly departures/arrivals at London Heathrow in Summer 2020:
Delhi - 14 (7x B777/7x B787)
Mumbai - 10 (7x B777/3x B787)
Ahmedabad - 4 (B787)
Bengaluru - 3 (B787)

hi Sean,
Over the past 2 weeks, it finally dawned on the geniuses at Vistara that they couldn’t get LHR slots for free by relying, on the past year, exclusively on their chances of being successful at LHR’s lottery system.
So, now, they have finally decided to go to their back up plan of starting Delhi to London Gatwick for which they have formally applied for route approvals with the government. They have already secured 8x weekly slots from Gatwick Airport for the summer of 2020 commencing March 29, 2020, although Vistara may commence the route only from May 2020 onwards.
Would you by any chance know which specific time slots they have been allotted At Gatwick?
Such slot timings will be helpful in knowing:
1) whether it means a daytime or middle of the night departure from Delhi
2) whether it offers convenient connections to British airways flights, if any, from Gatwick to North America (or whether Vistara is solely relying on O & D)

Thanks

dtw2hyd · Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:10 pm

VTORD wrote:
I did. Exactly this: "Delhi HC orders ED pgurus". If you google some key terms from the main article, you will stumble upon some news stories from 2018 stating that NCLT has cleared the involvement in alleged terror links/funding. The Bloomberg Quint story is actually very detailed.
...
If Vistara was to be docked for having dealings with sanctioned entities, Boeing would probably not have been able to sell them the 789s either.

https://www.pgurus.com/delhi-hc-orders- ... terrorist/

That is the magic of the Indian Judicial system, cases never end. Jan 20, 2020, the Delhi court asked ED to submit the probe report. NCLT is a labor dispute/bankruptcy tribunal, its ruling in Cyrus Mistry (vs) TATAs has no value.

Jet Airways always had questionable ownership issues, never stopped it from buying 100s of Boeing planes, became an issue when it applied for the Newark route.

The best option for any TATA owned airline is to resolve these issues in India before applying for US routes.

SABAJE · Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:00 pm

edealinfo wrote:
From Business Standard - Vistara refuses to pay for LHR slots and instead will leave its fate to LHR’s worse chances than being struck by lightening lottery system

“Unavailability of slots at Heathrow has forced Vistara to plan its London flight into Gatwick Airport- the city’s secondary airport which isn’t popular among full service airlines. “Anyone who operates to London ideally wants Heathrow Airport. We tried a lot but finding a slot in Heathrow is quite impossible at this point of time. No one wants to give up. We may start with Gatwick and shift to Heathrow whenever slots are available,” a Vistara executive said.

Full service airlines that fly to LGW:
Aegean Airline
Aer Lingus
Air Baltic
Air Europa
Air Malta
Air China
Austrian Airlines
British Airways
Cathay Pacific
China Airlines
China Eastern
China Southern
Delta
Egypt Air
Emirates
Finnair
Qatar Airways
Rossiya
Rwandair
Swiss
TAP Air Portugal
Turkish Airlines
Ukraine International
Virgin Atlantic

Not popular among full service carriers? Don’t think so!

pune · Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:35 pm

edealinfo wrote:
JOYA380B747 wrote:
hohd wrote:
At NAG, QR has no competition, but with PNQ, BOM itself is competition.

PNQ can sustain multiple international flights on its own without being any competition at all to slot constrained BOM until Navi Mumbai comes online.

PNQ is a slot constrained as well. International carriers need to get a slot of airport’s choice as opposed to the airlines own choice, which means it ain’t great for financial viability.

This is true as well as the fact that was mentioned in last month's thread as well. The fact is both PNQ and BOM are slot-constrained with PNQ being more. I have talked to numerous drivers who just do the PNQ - BOM and vice-versa and most of them have said that 80% of the time it's the westerners who frequent this trip. While this is welcome being a Puneite, I am non-plussed why is it so ? Apart from Osho, Iyengar Yoga school and perhaps a somewhat milder climate than Mumbai has, don't really see the difference. Because as convention centers go, we are in no way a match to BOM to the number of convention centers there as well as modes of funding for conferences etc.

pune · Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:40 pm

airboss787 wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
VTORD wrote:
as YOU have been claiming without providing a published verifiable source[/u]

https://livefromalounge.boardingarea.co ... don-tokyo/

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1429637&p=21954289#p21954289

Never trust blogs. Blogs are not verifiable or reliable as sources. They are mostly just opinions, including the linked article.

The blog is run by a travel journalist who has been known to share/break stories over number of years. I haven't yet seen though how many of his predictions have come right . At the same time, their is always the famous saying ' There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip' . There have been many times even announcements of something happening and then not happening or things not working out, so we have yet to see what happens.

pune · Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:45 pm

avier wrote:

-- snipped --

Speaking of covid-19, Garuda Indonesia is considering adding such temporary flights to India (Mumbai/Delhi) from Bali. This is from spare capacity they have due to large scale flight reductions in their network because of covid-19.
https://coconuts.co/bali/news/garuda-in ... -outbreak/

Even if such routes are economical, I don't think it will have any chance of much uptake. Even if there was 90% discount, I probably won't go flying due to the scare of coronoavirus. Although last I checked almost 60 odd countries have had coronavirus detected in their citizens in which I'm guessing Indonesia is also there, India is as 3 cases have been found so far.

airboss787 · Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:08 pm

pune wrote:
airboss787 wrote:
edealinfo wrote:

https://livefromalounge.boardingarea.co ... don-tokyo/

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1429637&p=21954289#p21954289

Never trust blogs. Blogs are not verifiable or reliable as sources. They are mostly just opinions, including the linked article.

The blog is run by a travel journalist who has been known to share/break stories over number of years. I haven't yet seen though how many of his predictions have come right . At the same time, their is always the famous saying ' There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip' . There have been many times even announcements of something happening and then not happening or things not working out, so we have yet to see what happens.

There are absolutely no sources in the entire article. He may know more than the average Joe in some of these things, but he uses no sources at all which is what a blog usually is. Opinion. Opinions are not verifiable or reliable as sources. I would also say calling him a journalist because he runs a blog and is invited to most things Vistara, is a bit of a stretch. He is a well known blogger who, according to me, is a good PR person for the airline.

VTORD · Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:15 pm

pune wrote:

The blog is run by a travel journalist who has been known to share/break stories over number of years. I haven't yet seen though how many of his predictions have come right . At the same time, their is always the famous saying ' There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lip' . There have been many times even announcements of something happening and then not happening or things not working out, so we have yet to see what happens.

I do not mean to doubt the access and verity of the information Live at a Lounge has but if you read that particular blog edition, they also do not explicitly say that the slots will have to be forfeited. In fact one of their contributors @KaranAtALounge was asked this question explicitly on Twitter and his response was "I don't know". There is nothing to add to this discussion anymore. In about a month everything will be clear. The world will continue to turn irrespective.

pune wrote:
I have talked to numerous drivers who just do the PNQ - BOM and vice-versa and most of them have said that 80% of the time it's the westerners who frequent this trip.

As someone who was educated in Pune and has considerable network of family and friends (not to mention a wistful nostalgia) in that city I know countless such folks in my social circle who use the BOM - PNQ taxi services at least once a year.

Pune is home to Tata Motors, Bajaj Auto, Finolex Group, Kirloskar Group, Force Motors, Firodiya Industries (Kinetic Group), Mercedes Benz India, Cummins (I know their US offices are packed with Punekars), Themax, VW, John Deere India to name a few. Plus the ever burgeoning IT scene in Hinjewadi and Magarpatta. I very much doubt 80% of the BOM-PNQ taxi services are being driven by a few orange robes headed to Koregaon Park.

berari · Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:22 pm

oceanvikram wrote:

At the end of the day India is a third world country and using first world logic does not work … it gets airlines bankrupt. If anything, Ethiopian has figured the perfect balance of providing a good enough service and being profitable.

This means everything.

vadodara · Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:46 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Of the 2 new American Airlines long haul routes from Seattle- to BLR and London. Delta fights back by adding a non stop of its own to LHR. Will BLR be next?
https://simpleflying.com/delta-takes-ai ... ouncement/

DL probably has some spare capacity; having said that, DL has been building LHR in conjunction with Virgin. So not too far fetched.

Any long haul flight not ending at a SkyTeam partner hub ain’t happening unless it is from Atlanta.

fortunerunnner · Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:51 pm

pune wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
JOYA380B747 wrote:

PNQ can sustain multiple international flights on its own without being any competition at all to slot constrained BOM until Navi Mumbai comes online.

PNQ is a slot constrained as well. International carriers need to get a slot of airport’s choice as opposed to the airlines own choice, which means it ain’t great for financial viability.

This is true as well as the fact that was mentioned in last month's thread as well. The fact is both PNQ and BOM are slot-constrained with PNQ being more. I have talked to numerous drivers who just do the PNQ - BOM and vice-versa and most of them have said that 80% of the time it's the westerners who frequent this trip. While this is welcome being a Puneite, I am non-plussed why is it so ? Apart from Osho, Iyengar Yoga school and perhaps a somewhat milder climate than Mumbai has, don't really see the difference. Because as convention centers go, we are in no way a match to BOM to the number of convention centers there as well as modes of funding for conferences etc.

Most of these are executives of North American and/or European companies which have significant operations in Pune. Just look at sheer number of auto/IT companies in and around Pune and their parent companies which are either based out of NA or Europe and you will get the answer as to why LH flight was so successful when it was operating and why westerners frequently take the cabs to Pune.

In my company based out of North America with large presence in Pune, recently they changed the policy after UA/Vistara codeshare agreement that all travel should be done via Delhi. Rash of road accidents and couple of thefts that happened including laptop theft of higher up executive when they were stopped at food mall on the expressway caused this policy change. Earlier these people were travelling every couple of months to Pune office for one reason or the other and always took cab after demise of Jet/Lufthansa flights.

vadodara · Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:54 pm

pune wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
This is true as well as the fact that was mentioned in last month's thread as well. The fact is both PNQ and BOM are slot-constrained with PNQ being more. I have talked to numerous drivers who just do the PNQ - BOM and vice-versa and most of them have said that 80% of the time it's the westerners who frequent this trip..

Really sad state of MH affairs where the long term policy is viewed from the lens of Bombay Taximens Association.

For life of me I can’t understand why a 2nd parallel runway can’t be built. The separation of the two at several constrained airports such as EWR, SJC etc is not that much.

One is used for landing while the other for take-offs.

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