edealinfo wrote:

Pakyong airport is back online in Sikkim but no airline wants to fly to the ghost airport

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.financ ... 3243/lite/

You put the 6E and UK link here. The correct link is as follows: http://voiceofsikkim.com/2020/03/09/pak ... ation-aai/

In any case, PYG is cursed. The difficult terrain means nobody wants to fly there and make it easy for consumers who want to get closer to Sikkim than IXB.

FligtReporter wrote:

BawliBooch wrote:

subramak1 wrote:

PNQ is the airbase that protect Mumbai and Bombay High oil fields and is geared towards to that . PNQ airbase may not be sufficient to be a full fledged airport a la bangalore/ hyderabad

KK

There are 2 airfields in Nashik one of which (HAL Ozar) is currently under used can be easily upgraded to play the role currently played by PNQ airbase - ie 2 min interceptor coverage for oil fields in Bombay High. If the Air Force vacates PNQ, there is enough space to upgrade the airport+terminal to international standards. Issue is new airport development in Rajgurunagar/Purandar is more lucrative for politicians. The last time this plan was proposed, the excuse used was the presence of the Southern Command HQ in Pune allowing for "joint ops" - an exercise that has remained theoretical for past 35 years!

It is not just length. The PNQ runway will have to be upgraded to handle widebody landings. In the early 90's, Indian Airlines operated a A300B2 for a military charter as a test and it punched holes in the runway! Air India operated an A310 4/5 years later on the inaugural BOM-PNQ-DXB route and it seemed to have gone better. Later replaced with AIX 737-800.

I just measured on Google Earth and it seems PNQ has the runway size equal to that of my base however the civil tarmac is half the size of LKO all thats needed is the increasing of the tarmac for up to a KM and get a new terminal simple.

Because We handle regular A330-300s and at times 744s and 788s too so if LKO runway and tarmac can handle these big birds I think PNQ with a little upgradation could possibly have direct flights from Sudia,Malaysia,SIA,Thai and even Lufthansa because PNQ has demand for EU but sadly it lacks the infrastructure..the MAH and GOI needs to get it sorted because the airport is the gateway of opportunities into and out of any city,a very major part of all the cities around the globe and Pune being one of our metro cities should have it ASAP but its only possible when MAH GOV and GOI start treating PNQ like they treat BOM

Much smaller cities like TRZ, IXM, IXE and CNN have plenty of international flights simply because they are South Indian, even though they are far removed from the state capitals of MAA, BLR and TRV. Indeed, as I have mentioned, IXC and GOI despite being civil enclaves (part-military) get lots of love. (This even though the ‘shameless Puri’ argument applies only to ATQ and not IXC, even though both are in Punjab.) How come only PNQ should suffer?

I am also reminded of GAU whose only international tenant is currently Drukair. SG cancelled flights to Dhaka and Nok Air cancelled flights to Bangkok DMK. As much as CCU is enjoying a Southeast Asian boom from 6E, GAU is completely neglected.

VTCIE wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

Pakyong airport is back online in Sikkim but no airline wants to fly to the ghost airport

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.financ ... 3243/lite/

You put the 6E and UK link here. The correct link is as follows: http://voiceofsikkim.com/2020/03/09/pak ... ation-aai/

In any case, PYG is cursed. The difficult terrain means nobody wants to fly there and make it easy for consumers who want to get closer to Sikkim than IXB.

FligtReporter wrote:

BawliBooch wrote:

There are 2 airfields in Nashik one of which (HAL Ozar) is currently under used can be easily upgraded to play the role currently played by PNQ airbase - ie 2 min interceptor coverage for oil fields in Bombay High. If the Air Force vacates PNQ, there is enough space to upgrade the airport+terminal to international standards. Issue is new airport development in Rajgurunagar/Purandar is more lucrative for politicians. The last time this plan was proposed, the excuse used was the presence of the Southern Command HQ in Pune allowing for "joint ops" - an exercise that has remained theoretical for past 35 years!

It is not just length. The PNQ runway will have to be upgraded to handle widebody landings. In the early 90's, Indian Airlines operated a A300B2 for a military charter as a test and it punched holes in the runway! Air India operated an A310 4/5 years later on the inaugural BOM-PNQ-DXQ route and it seemed to have gone better. Later replaced with AIX 737-800.

I just measured on Google Earth and it seems PNQ has the runway size equal to that of my base however the civil tarmac is half the size of LKO all thats needed is the increasing of the tarmac for up to a KM and get a new terminal simple.

Because We handle regular A330-300s and at times 744s and 788s too so if LKO runway and tarmac can handle these big birds I think PNQ with a little upgradation could possibly have direct flights from Sudia,Malaysia,SIA,Thai and even Lufthansa because PNQ has demand for EU but sadly it lacks the infrastructure..the MAH and GOI needs to get it sorted because the airport is the gateway of opportunities into and out of any city,a very major part of all the cities around the globe and Pune being one of our metro cities should have it ASAP but its only possible when MAH GOV and GOI start treating PNQ like they treat BOM

Much smaller cities like TRZ, IXM, IXE and CNN have plenty of international flights simply because they are South Indian, even though they are far removed from the state capitals of MAA, BLR and TRV. Indeed, as I have mentioned, IXC and GOI despite being civil enclaves (part-military) get lots of love. (The ‘shameless Puri’ argument applies only to ATQ and not IXC, even though both are in Punjab.) How come only PNQ should suffer?

I am also reminded of GAU whose only international tenant is currently Drukair. SG cancelled flights to Dhaka and Nok Air cancelled flights to Bangkok DMK. As much as CCU is enjoying a Southeast Asian boom from 6E, GAU is completely neglected.

Why are these step motherly treatment to these airports anyways ? This reminds of my a neighbouring town to my base KNU whose Partial military air base is used as a civil airport and same for IXD and AGR ..Oh and GOP as well..Damn I guess in my state only LKO and VNS are two fully Functional Civil International airports others are just at the mercy of Air Force.

This PNQ plight has now ignited a fire in my avgeek heart to do more research about such cities which are at the mercy of Air Force but do deserve a fully functional Civil Airports with full liberty and freedom.

Hmm...I will research and list down all the
(AAMOAF) = AIRPORTS AT THE MERCY OF AIR FORCE...Its high time the Aviation authority gives all these towns and cities their right to a proper civil aerodrome ans hope it happens soon !

edealinfo wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

Indigo in a BIG soup as Qatar bans Indians from entering Qatar (along with citizens of a few other countries)

https://simpleflying.com/qatar-coronavirus-flight-ban/

I am puzzled by Watar’s decision to ban Indians. india just Has 45 cases whereas the USA has 722 cases but no ban applies to Americans . Go figure!

These Qatari and Kuwaiti c&*ts should be taught a lesson. I hope our Hon. PM and Hon. MEA Jaishankar take swift action.

As an aside, a interesting experience I had recently. I was booked on AI610 (BLR-BOM) in April, and got it for a ridiculously low (probably glitch) fare on a online travel website. Then, AI decided to prepone the flight from 19:10 dep to 15:20 dep. They offered a refund/reschudule, and the earliest reschedule they could give was the early morning AI604 the next day. To my immense surprise, after explaining that I needed to be back the same day on a evening flight, the agent rebooked me via DEL on AI503 and AI191. This is really rare, and airlines usually avoid this to save money. AI might get a lot of hate, but sometimes they are actually quite good (even if that might mean burning taxpayers cash). On, the other hand, this leaves AI with only three flights a day in the BOM-BLR sector in April, which is probably due to the low demand.

trinidadeG wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

avier wrote:

You should know by now that he loves adding masala to every bit of news. A true indian journo indeed.

Even though it has been baking in the sun for just two week after delivery, I was projecting outwards, and not taking just the 2 weeks and assuming that is the max limit for which it is baked. Certainly, a vey different perspective from yours.

Masala is Masala, whichever way you look at it. Right now, VT-TSD has taken off from DEL, flying south on what i suspect is their DGCA-mandated "proving flight". This is after 10 days of 'baking'

These “proving” flights are a jaunt for civil aviation authorities to try out the flat bed seats (yeah, a better way to sleep on the job) and be treated to 5 star catering. Why is a proving flight required when Vistara flew the plane over 13,000 Kim’s from Seattle to Delhi? Wasn’t that proof enough? Why do they want to waste an airline’s money?

edealinfo wrote:

trinidadeG wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

Even though it has been baking in the sun for just two week after delivery, I was projecting outwards, and not taking just the 2 weeks and assuming that is the max limit for which it is baked. Certainly, a vey different perspective from yours.

Masala is Masala, whichever way you look at it. Right now, VT-TSD has taken off from DEL, flying south on what i suspect is their DGCA-mandated "proving flight". This is after 10 days of 'baking'

These “proving” flights are a jaunt for civil aviation authorities to try out the flat bed seats (yeah, a better way to sleep on the job) and be treated to 5 star catering. Why is a proving flight required when Vistara flew the plane over 13,000 Kim’s from Seattle to Delhi? Wasn’t that proof enough? Why do they want to waste an airline’s money?

Well just see, you added more masala to a small piece of news info you just got i.e the proving flight.
Also, going by your logic, no airline would need to do proving flights for any new a/c types in India or overseas , as their delivery flight from Amreeka or Europe should be proof enough of it. Lol.

Bengaluru's Japan dream of getting a direct flight soon may be stalled due to covid19. JAL is to commence this new flight this month end.

Chennai on the other hand already fulfilled that dream, when ANA started service last Oct on NRT-MAA.

https://bangaloremirror.indiatimes.com/ ... 502225.cms

killswitch13 wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

Indigo in a BIG soup as Qatar bans Indians from entering Qatar (along with citizens of a few other countries)

https://simpleflying.com/qatar-coronavirus-flight-ban/

I am puzzled by Watar’s decision to ban Indians. india just Has 45 cases whereas the USA has 722 cases but no ban applies to Americans . Go figure!

These Qatari and Kuwaiti c&*ts should be taught a lesson. I hope our Hon. PM and Hon. MEA Jaishankar take swift action.

Americans, they didn't even ban Italians. This looked to me just an announcement to make their local populace feel safe and they banned the main countries of their cheap labor. An offensive move IMHO. India should just say ok, then let's shut all flights between our countries. Qatar is still allowing Indians to connect through DOHA if you can freakin believe that.

avier wrote:

Bengaluru's Japan dream of getting a direct flight soon may be stalled due to covid19. JAL is to commence this new flight this month end.

Chennai on the other hand already fulfilled that dream, when ANA started service last Oct on NRT-MAA.

https://bangaloremirror.indiatimes.com/ ... 502225.cms

As of now bookings are still open for BLR-NRT which is DAILY, but for MAA it's just 3x weekly & ANA has temporarily suspended the flights to MAA for this month.

sand26391 wrote:

avier wrote:

Bengaluru's Japan dream of getting a direct flight soon may be stalled due to covid19. JAL is to commence this new flight this month end.

Chennai on the other hand already fulfilled that dream, when ANA started service last Oct on NRT-MAA.

https://bangaloremirror.indiatimes.com/ ... 502225.cms

As of now bookings are still open for BLR-NRT which is DAILY, but for MAA it's just 3x weekly & ANA has temporarily suspended the flights to MAA for this month.

No need to capitalise the word ‘daily’. It is a fact that MAA is an O&D destination whereas BLR is predominantly connecting business traffic, so it will be daily and MAA will not. However, the fact remains that MAA got there first.

NH suspended flights to BOM as well besides MAA, so there is no guarantee that JAL’s BLR route will proceeed without a hitch.

edealinfo wrote:

trinidadeG wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

Even though it has been baking in the sun for just two week after delivery, I was projecting outwards, and not taking just the 2 weeks and assuming that is the max limit for which it is baked. Certainly, a vey different perspective from yours.

Masala is Masala, whichever way you look at it. Right now, VT-TSD has taken off from DEL, flying south on what i suspect is their DGCA-mandated "proving flight". This is after 10 days of 'baking'

These “proving” flights are a jaunt for civil aviation authorities to try out the flat bed seats (yeah, a better way to sleep on the job) and be treated to 5 star catering. Why is a proving flight required when Vistara flew the plane over 13,000 Kim’s from Seattle to Delhi? Wasn’t that proof enough? Why do they want to waste an airline’s money?

So, the 'proving flight' this morning was DEL-AMD-DEL.

I suppose more such flights will follow, since they're often a total of 5-6 such flights. Hopefully, we'll see trip reports of UK's DEL-BOM flights popping up by next week itself!

CaliguyNYC wrote:

killswitch13 wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

I am puzzled by Watar’s decision to ban Indians. india just Has 45 cases whereas the USA has 722 cases but no ban applies to Americans . Go figure!

These Qatari and Kuwaiti c&*ts should be taught a lesson. I hope our Hon. PM and Hon. MEA Jaishankar take swift action.

Americans, they didn't even ban Italians. This looked to me just an announcement to make their local populace feel safe and they banned the main countries of their cheap labor. An offensive move IMHO. India should just say ok, then let's shut all flights between our countries. Qatar is still allowing Indians to connect through DOHA if you can freakin believe that.

Well, that's more of their loss than anyone else's. Reason being: they are already facing a major blockade from most of the major gulf countries, so no air connections there.
And now, they added to the list many more countries in that region mostly. So in effect they have isolated themselves in that entire region and nearby. Also, their airline will suffer more.

VTCIE wrote:

sand26391 wrote:

avier wrote:

Bengaluru's Japan dream of getting a direct flight soon may be stalled due to covid19. JAL is to commence this new flight this month end.

Chennai on the other hand already fulfilled that dream, when ANA started service last Oct on NRT-MAA.

https://bangaloremirror.indiatimes.com/ ... 502225.cms

As of now bookings are still open for BLR-NRT which is DAILY, but for MAA it's just 3x weekly & ANA has temporarily suspended the flights to MAA for this month.

No need to capitalise the word ‘daily’. It is a fact that MAA is an O&D destination whereas BLR is predominantly connecting business traffic, so it will be daily and MAA will not. However, the fact remains that MAA got there first.

NH suspended flights to BOM as well besides MAA, so there is no guarantee that JAL’s BLR route will proceeed without a hitch.

Yeah MAA got it first because getting 3x weekly slot was easier than a daily slot at NRT and starting flight purely on O&D basis is a little more simpler unlike for BLR which they had to time it well for the bay are flights along with their codeshare partner timings + JAL were in discussions for tweaking flight timings of other flights for the BLR launch, hence the SS20 launch. I had to put in the word daily as you did not care to mention in your post. JAL has planned to switch it to HND in the coming 18 months or so( that's what I've been hearing). Thankfully as of now they have not cancelled the flight, possible maybe in April they cud reduce freq is what I think may happen.

trinidadeG wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

trinidadeG wrote:

Masala is Masala, whichever way you look at it. Right now, VT-TSD has taken off from DEL, flying south on what i suspect is their DGCA-mandated "proving flight". This is after 10 days of 'baking'

These “proving” flights are a jaunt for civil aviation authorities to try out the flat bed seats (yeah, a better way to sleep on the job) and be treated to 5 star catering. Why is a proving flight required when Vistara flew the plane over 13,000 Kim’s from Seattle to Delhi? Wasn’t that proof enough? Why do they want to waste an airline’s money?

So, the 'proving flight' this morning was DEL-AMD-DEL.

I suppose more such flights will follow, since they're often a total of 5-6 such flights. Hopefully, we'll see trip reports of UK's DEL-BOM flights popping up by next week itself!

The proving flights are also used to cycle the crew so they get familiarity with the lay of the land. Not all crew got a ‘phoren’ trip out of this!

VTCIE wrote:

[
Much smaller cities like TRZ, IXM, IXE and CNN have plenty of international flights simply because they are South Indian, even though they are far removed from the state capitals of MAA, BLR and TRV. Indeed, as I have mentioned, IXC and GOI despite being civil enclaves (part-military) get lots of love. (This even though the ‘shameless Puri’ argument applies only to ATQ and not IXC, even though both are in Punjab.) How come only PNQ should suffer?

I am also reminded of GAU whose only international tenant is currently Drukair. SG cancelled flights to Dhaka and Nok Air cancelled flights to Bangkok DMK. As much as CCU is enjoying a Southeast Asian boom from 6E, GAU is completely neglected.

S India and the nature of the traffic makes it favorable for service using narrow bodies.

Compare PNQ with AMD; AMD is growing 20-25% yoy. However growth is largely driven by ME3 and now LCC’s to SE and W Asia. With the exception of EK and SQ, this is largely narrow bodies.

This story seems to be repeated. For life of me I can’t figure out why the policy is not liberalized further when there is preponderance of data indicating why this simulated traffic.

PNQ as big as it is does not have the international traffic of many smaller South Indian cities. Except for DXB, there is not much ME3 or even SE Asia O & D traffic to/from PNQ. Don't know why it is, may because of the leakage of some traffic to BOM. PNQ had a flight SIN many years ago, but was cancelled due to poor loads.

avier wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

trinidadeG wrote:

Masala is Masala, whichever way you look at it. Right now, VT-TSD has taken off from DEL, flying south on what i suspect is their DGCA-mandated "proving flight". This is after 10 days of 'baking'

These “proving” flights are a jaunt for civil aviation authorities to try out the flat bed seats (yeah, a better way to sleep on the job) and be treated to 5 star catering. Why is a proving flight required when Vistara flew the plane over 13,000 Kim’s from Seattle to Delhi? Wasn’t that proof enough? Why do they want to waste an airline’s money?

Well just see, you added more masala to a small piece of news info you just got i.e the proving flight.
Also, going by your logic, no airline would need to do proving flights for any new a/c types in India or overseas , as their delivery flight from Amreeka or Europe should be proof enough of it. Lol.

It's just amusing to see tantrums being thrown on every small tit bit news coming out and blow it out of proportions. It's as if the management and the airline professionals are 5 year old complete idiots, having no experience in civil aviation or any industry as such.

Anybody with little interest of Civil Aviation will know that, Its a standard industry practice world over (not just for ATQ) to have proving flights whenever new aircraft type is inducted in the fleet.

I shudder to think if some of the posters were managing the airline, how soon the plane would crash ...

hohd wrote:

PNQ as big as it is does not have the international traffic of many smaller South Indian cities. Except for DXB, there is not much ME3 or even SE Asia O & D traffic to/from PNQ. Don't know why it is, may because of the leakage of some traffic to BOM. PNQ had a flight SIN many years ago, but was cancelled due to poor loads.

Sure but precisely my point. Why cap EK flights? Publish a negative list of airports and open the rest up.

BIAL PROJECT/EXPANSION SCHEDULE TILL 2033



Link: http://www.environmentclearance.nic.in/ ... earch.aspx

vadodara wrote:

hohd wrote:

PNQ as big as it is does not have the international traffic of many smaller South Indian cities. Except for DXB, there is not much ME3 or even SE Asia O & D traffic to/from PNQ. Don't know why it is, may because of the leakage of some traffic to BOM. PNQ had a flight SIN many years ago, but was cancelled due to poor loads.

Sure but precisely my point. Why cap EK flights? Publish a negative list of airports and open the rest up.

If I am not wrong 9W's PNQ-SIN flight started sometime around late 2018 and was shut down sometime just before the eventual total shut in early 2019 so not sure whether we should attribute that to poor loads. Also re: leakage to BOM, maybe that is precisely because PNQ is constrained that the leakage to BOM is higher than it would be. I find it hard to believe PNQ can't generate significant demand beyond DXB. If only we had a source that could put numbers against PNQ origin traffic ex-DEL/BOM.

We all know STV is 30% of BOM traffic so that just leaves the other 70%!

aarbee wrote:

avier wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

These “proving” flights are a jaunt for civil aviation authorities to try out the flat bed seats (yeah, a better way to sleep on the job) and be treated to 5 star catering. Why is a proving flight required when Vistara flew the plane over 13,000 Kim’s from Seattle to Delhi? Wasn’t that proof enough? Why do they want to waste an airline’s money?

Well just see, you added more masala to a small piece of news info you just got i.e the proving flight.
Also, going by your logic, no airline would need to do proving flights for any new a/c types in India or overseas , as their delivery flight from Amreeka or Europe should be proof enough of it. Lol.

It's just amusing to see tantrums being thrown on every small tit bit news coming out and blow it out of proportions. It's as if the management and the airline professionals are 5 year old complete idiots, having no experience in civil aviation or any industry as such.

Anybody with little interest of Civil Aviation will know that, Its a standard industry practice world over (not just for ATQ) to have proving flights whenever new aircraft type is inducted in the fleet.

I shudder to think if some of the posters were managing the airline, how soon the plane would crash ...

So, did the proving flight prove that the babus didn’t sleep on the job? I am sure they were instead in economy class watching the crew serve economy class meals (most passengers fly in economy class don’t they?)

Did the proving flight prove whether or not the pilots could fly the plane.? Wow we should feel safe now that they also passed the babu check because without it, their pilot license is toilet paper.

Did the flight attendants prove they could properly close the aircraft door? Oh, wait a minute, they ought to have, or else how could the airline have taken off ?

Did the attendants, make the correct announcement on the seat belt (Like they haven’t had for a gazillion times)? Check .

Did the pilots speak to the ATC appropriately? Check.

Does the business class seat back Tv have doordarshan channel? No? Fail!

edealinfo wrote:

aarbee wrote:

avier wrote:

Well just see, you added more masala to a small piece of news info you just got i.e the proving flight.
Also, going by your logic, no airline would need to do proving flights for any new a/c types in India or overseas , as their delivery flight from Amreeka or Europe should be proof enough of it. Lol.

It's just amusing to see tantrums being thrown on every small tit bit news coming out and blow it out of proportions. It's as if the management and the airline professionals are 5 year old complete idiots, having no experience in civil aviation or any industry as such.

Anybody with little interest of Civil Aviation will know that, Its a standard industry practice world over (not just for ATQ) to have proving flights whenever new aircraft type is inducted in the fleet.

I shudder to think if some of the posters were managing the airline, how soon the plane would crash ...

So, did the proving flight prove that the babus didn’t sleep on the job? I am sure they were instead in economy class watching the crew serve economy class meals (most passengers fly in economy class don’t they?)

Did the proving flight prove whether or not the pilots could fly the plane.? Wow we should feel safe now that they also passed the babu check because without it, their pilot license is toilet paper.

Did the flight attendants prove they could properly close the aircraft door? Oh, wait a minute, they ought to have, or else how could the airline have taken off ?

Did the attendants, make the correct announcement on the seat belt (Like they haven’t had for a gazillion times)? Check .

Did the pilots speak to the ATC appropriately? Check.

Does the business class seat back Tv have doordarshan channel? No? Fail!

OMG you are insane. Please read what happens during these flights and what the need for this is. It is not just about 1 set of crews knowing how to fly. It is also about training and making sure the airline has all the documentation and paperwork. It is also to make sure the airline is ready to fly these aircraft en masse. These are not pleasure flights with 5-star food options. It is not like babus are taking these flights and enjoying the Vistara service. They will be DGCA authorities whose reputation is on the line if they screw it up.

If you're a journalist, this is exactly what is wrong with aviation journalism in India. If you dont know something, research rather than just spewing conspiracy theories and making something look bigger than it really is.

hohd wrote:

PNQ as big as it is does not have the international traffic of many smaller South Indian cities. Except for DXB, there is not much ME3 or even SE Asia O & D traffic to/from PNQ. Don't know why it is, may because of the leakage of some traffic to BOM. PNQ had a flight SIN many years ago, but was cancelled due to poor loads.

This is not at all true, the flight to SIN which was axed due to poor loads was never a non-stop flight but rather a one stop option via HYD when it was briefly operated by IC/AI. Later on 9W started SIN flight from PNQ and it was pretty successful until eventual demise of 9W. At one point 9W was also operating AUH flight to feed onto EY network and it was also successful precisely due to international connections it would offer. Both flights ultimately vanished when 9W collapsed.

As far as traffic leakage is concerned, its precisely due to lack of better options from PNQ itself as evident by earlier post from another ANetter who drives to BOM to fly to DEL/MAA as its more convenient for him than taking red eyes from PNQ which are forced upon its population by apathy of air force.

Some post back there was suggestion to have air force shift its operations from PNQ to another airfield or perhaps construct air force specific air field at new airport site which actually is most practical option and should be done. Current PNQ is almost smack dab in the middle of the city and is very convenient if runway is upgraded and civil terminal expanded. Air Force can have its air station at new location away from the main city and thus giving it necessary room to expand as well as security it desires. However, touching defense forces is a taboo subject in India and it will never happen thus normal populace has to suffer and make a trek to BOM or that still to be undetermined location for new airport 50KM from the city.

VTORD wrote:

If I am not wrong 9W's PNQ-SIN flight started sometime around late 2018 and was shut down sometime just before the eventual total shut in early 2019 so not sure whether we should attribute that to poor loads. Also re: leakage to BOM, maybe that is precisely because PNQ is constrained that the leakage to BOM is higher than it would be. I find it hard to believe PNQ can't generate significant demand beyond DXB. If only we had a source that could put numbers against PNQ origin traffic ex-DEL/BOM.

We all know STV is 30% of BOM traffic so that just leaves the other 70%!

There is ample demand to some EU destinations such as FRA as well as DXB/SIN etc. I would even say if and when new airport gets constructed, traffic will increase manifold at PNQ. Perhaps additional EU destinations besides FRA are possible since it can become a primary international gateway for nearby middle size towns such as Satara, Solapur, Sangli, Kolhapur, Aurangabad etc. who now have to make their way to BOM for international connections. Heck even significant portion of PNQ originating passengers fly out from BOM on daily basis and KK Travels who runs door to door cab business has multiple cabs operating every hour between Pune City and BOM. They charge 1000+ Rupees per person and is making a killing due to this. Just take a road trip between BOM-PNQ during midnight hours when most EU/NA flights arrive/depart and you can see number of cabs running between the two to see how many people head to and from BOM every single day.

India now suspends all evisa and visas from Spain, Italy and France. I guess the dream of going swadeshi is finally happening.

VTORD wrote:

vadodara wrote:

hohd wrote:

PNQ as big as it is does not have the international traffic of many smaller South Indian cities. Except for DXB, there is not much ME3 or even SE Asia O & D traffic to/from PNQ. Don't know why it is, may because of the leakage of some traffic to BOM. PNQ had a flight SIN many years ago, but was cancelled due to poor loads.

Sure but precisely my point. Why cap EK flights? Publish a negative list of airports and open the rest up.

If I am not wrong 9W's PNQ-SIN flight started sometime around late 2018 and was shut down sometime just before the eventual total shut in early 2019 so not sure whether we should attribute that to poor loads. Also re: leakage to BOM, maybe that is precisely because PNQ is constrained that the leakage to BOM is higher than it would be. I find it hard to believe PNQ can't generate significant demand beyond DXB. If only we had a source that could put numbers against PNQ origin traffic ex-DEL/BOM.

We all know STV is 30% of BOM traffic so that just leaves the other 70%!

Only the Class F/J are BOM origin! Rest come from likes of STV, PNQ, BDQ etc!

My Dream of seeing the Taj Mahal seems being crushed by Corona ish...I have to fly next week to LKO - DEL - HYD - LKO and Then on Inaugural Flight to LKO - AGR - LKO on 29th but Im reconsidering my plans...God knows when will I fly again

hohd wrote:

PNQ as big as it is does not have the international traffic of many smaller South Indian cities. Except for DXB, there is not much ME3 or even SE Asia O & D traffic to/from PNQ. Don't know why it is, may because of the leakage of some traffic to BOM. PNQ had a flight SIN many years ago, but was cancelled due to poor loads.

PNQ can never have real Intl traffic and widebodies unless it gets a brand new terminal,New Runway and no restrictions by AIR FORCE Aka INDEPENDENT CIVIL AIRPORT.

PNQ's condition is really something to feel sad for..I mean for a city like PNQ to have a tiny @** terminal and tarmac its just sad...Even my city has a bigger airport and more INTL flights than PNQ and conditions wont change unless the MAH GOV and GOI acts quick in sorting this airport issue out for PNQ.

FligtReporter wrote:

hohd wrote:

PNQ as big as it is does not have the international traffic of many smaller South Indian cities. Except for DXB, there is not much ME3 or even SE Asia O & D traffic to/from PNQ. Don't know why it is, may because of the leakage of some traffic to BOM. PNQ had a flight SIN many years ago, but was cancelled due to poor loads.

PNQ can never have real Intl traffic and widebodies unless it gets a brand new terminal,New Runway and no restrictions by AIR FORCE Aka INDEPENDENT CIVIL AIRPORT.

PNQ's condition is really something to feel sad for..I mean for a city like PNQ to have a tiny @** terminal and tarmac its just sad...Even my city has a bigger airport and more INTL flights than PNQ and conditions wont change unless the MAH GOV and GOI acts quick in sorting this airport issue out for PNQ.

If you think PNQ is sad, just hop over to CCJ. Not a single taxiway nor is there a regular DEL flight.

vadodara wrote:

VTORD wrote:

vadodara wrote:

Sure but precisely my point. Why cap EK flights? Publish a negative list of airports and open the rest up.

We all know STV is 30% of BOM traffic so that just leaves the other 70%!

Only the Class F/J are BOM origin! Rest come from likes of STV, PNQ, BDQ etc!

Says who? Abt stats to prove this? I keep hearing this fake statements in every forum. But no one provides any proof. The pax at BOM is a mix of connecting and BOM origin, there's no proof, statistics, numbers, infographics etc on any of these forums about this exaggerated & useless statement. Yes a significant part of the Int'l pax at BOM are transit passengers (I'm talking about in a whole day, not a single flight). But no way we can say they come from "SURAT, BDQ, PNQ..." only.

acavpics wrote:

FligtReporter wrote:

hohd wrote:

PNQ as big as it is does not have the international traffic of many smaller South Indian cities. Except for DXB, there is not much ME3 or even SE Asia O & D traffic to/from PNQ. Don't know why it is, may because of the leakage of some traffic to BOM. PNQ had a flight SIN many years ago, but was cancelled due to poor loads.

PNQ can never have real Intl traffic and widebodies unless it gets a brand new terminal,New Runway and no restrictions by AIR FORCE Aka INDEPENDENT CIVIL AIRPORT.

PNQ's condition is really something to feel sad for..I mean for a city like PNQ to have a tiny @** terminal and tarmac its just sad...Even my city has a bigger airport and more INTL flights than PNQ and conditions wont change unless the MAH GOV and GOI acts quick in sorting this airport issue out for PNQ.

If you think PNQ is sad, just hop over to CCJ. Not a single taxiway nor is there a regular DEL flight.

CCJ would probably be a dream for PNQ to be like..CCJ has got Regular flights to Qatar,Saudi,UAE,Oman etc it also handles Widebodies like A333,744s regularly etc which is a distant dream for PNQ that has never even tasted a foreign widebody on its runway in its entire existence.

Oh and the best part is that CCJ isnt run by AIR FORCE its a Fully Independent Civil International Airport serving its proud residents.

PNQ on the other hand is like a shame to the city of Pune and its residents because no one can really believe that its a metro city when they land and see the tiny terminal with tiny tarmac with all passenger planes and private jets cramped together.

So to even put an embarassment like PNQ in the same sentence as CCJ and that too with reference of comparison is just blatant disrespect to CCJ.

sand26391 wrote:

vadodara wrote:

VTORD wrote:

We all know STV is 30% of BOM traffic so that just leaves the other 70%!

Only the Class F/J are BOM origin! Rest come from likes of STV, PNQ, BDQ etc!

Says who? Abt stats to prove this? I keep hearing this fake statements in every forum. But no one provides any proof. The pax at BOM is a mix of connecting and BOM origin, there's no proof, statistics, numbers, infographics etc on any of these forums about this exaggerated & useless statement. Yes a significant part of the Int'l pax at BOM are transit passengers (I'm talking about in a whole day, not a single flight). But no way we can say they come from "SURAT, BDQ, PNQ..." only.

I agree...At times I have transited at BOM enroute EWR or CMB and have dumped DEL and still do at times..So I too am intrested in knowing the so called stats cause I would love to see how many folks from my city transit at BOM.

Intresting Request...Cmon Aviation Experts Im counting on ya...Plz give us the stats !

vadodara wrote:

VTORD wrote:

vadodara wrote:

Sure but precisely my point. Why cap EK flights? Publish a negative list of airports and open the rest up.

If I am not wrong 9W's PNQ-SIN flight started sometime around late 2018 and was shut down sometime just before the eventual total shut in early 2019 so not sure whether we should attribute that to poor loads. Also re: leakage to BOM, maybe that is precisely because PNQ is constrained that the leakage to BOM is higher than it would be. I find it hard to believe PNQ can't generate significant demand beyond DXB. If only we had a source that could put numbers against PNQ origin traffic ex-DEL/BOM.

We all know STV is 30% of BOM traffic so that just leaves the other 70%!

Only the Class F/J are BOM origin! Rest come from likes of STV, PNQ, BDQ etc!

Absolutely!

Mumbai's Twenty Five Million inhabitants ( who are capable of paying for Y class air-tickets) actually take the train/ swim across the Arabian sea instead!! The reality is that South Gujarat and the Pune region people are the ones that actually supply the 40 million annual passengers that keep BOM going.

vadodara wrote:

Sure but precisely my point. Why cap EK flights? Publish a negative list of airports and open the rest up.

You know, this is all based on an assumption that IF these caps are removed by the government, then Emirates (and other hallowed foreign carriers) will start flying to ALL eligible Indian airports.

Its hard to ignore that these airlines DO favour larger Indian airports. What would you say if, (were the Indian government to allow more seats to DXB) EK would simply dump more A380s and B777s to the bigger Indian airports it already serves, instead of flying from smaller airports which "deserve" more flights??

You and I are free to think highly of India's smaller airports, but these airlines know where their bacon (India-US transit traffic) is, and keep dropping hints.. EK dropped two in 2019.
1) AAI allowed wide-body aircraft to return to CCJ recently. Did Emirates return?? No. It sent FZ instead.
2) EK also recently shifted some flights from TRV (smaller city) to BLR (growing South Indian hub).

Removal of the cap will not benefit the country as many think it would.

acavpics wrote:

FligtReporter wrote:

hohd wrote:

PNQ as big as it is does not have the international traffic of many smaller South Indian cities. Except for DXB, there is not much ME3 or even SE Asia O & D traffic to/from PNQ. Don't know why it is, may because of the leakage of some traffic to BOM. PNQ had a flight SIN many years ago, but was cancelled due to poor loads.

PNQ can never have real Intl traffic and widebodies unless it gets a brand new terminal,New Runway and no restrictions by AIR FORCE Aka INDEPENDENT CIVIL AIRPORT.

PNQ's condition is really something to feel sad for..I mean for a city like PNQ to have a tiny @** terminal and tarmac its just sad...Even my city has a bigger airport and more INTL flights than PNQ and conditions wont change unless the MAH GOV and GOI acts quick in sorting this airport issue out for PNQ.

If you think PNQ is sad, just hop over to CCJ. Not a single taxiway nor is there a regular DEL flight.

Didnt 6E recently start DEL-CCJ?

bostrv wrote:

acavpics wrote:

If you think PNQ is sad, just hop over to CCJ. Not a single taxiway nor is there a regular DEL flight.

Didnt 6E recently start DEL-CCJ?

Yes, it starts this month-19th March.
With this, they are also re-timing the BOM-CCJ flight from SS'20, and would no longer be the DEL-BOM-CCJ-DXB rotation basically.

trinidadeG wrote:

You know, this is all based on an assumption that IF these caps are removed by the government, then Emirates (and other hallowed foreign carriers) will start flying to ALL eligible Indian airports.

Its hard to ignore that these airlines DO favour larger Indian airports. What would you say if, (were the Indian government to allow more seats to DXB) EK would simply dump more A380s and B777s to the bigger Indian airports it already serves, instead of flying from smaller airports which "deserve" more flights??

You and I are free to think highly of India's smaller airports, but these airlines know where their bacon (India-US transit traffic) is, and keep dropping hints.. EK dropped two in 2019.
1) AAI allowed wide-body aircraft to return to CCJ recently. Did Emirates return?? No. It sent FZ instead.
2) EK also recently shifted some flights from TRV (smaller city) to BLR (growing South Indian hub).

Removal of the cap will not benefit the country as many think it would.

Are you arguing with yourself? Dubai carriers are adjusting within the given rights.

Every aviation hub dweller gets feisty even at a remote possibility of a feeder station skipping their hub.

dtw2hyd wrote:

Are you arguing with yourself? Dubai carriers are adjusting within the given rights.

Did you even read the thread? Where have i said that they aren't doing so??

avier wrote:

bostrv wrote:

acavpics wrote:

If you think PNQ is sad, just hop over to CCJ. Not a single taxiway nor is there a regular DEL flight.

Didnt 6E recently start DEL-CCJ?

Yes, it starts this month-19th March.
With this, they are also re-timing the BOM-CCJ flight from SS'20, and would no longer be the DEL-BOM-CCJ-DXB rotation basically.

AI also has a DEL Kannur CCJ rotation.

Fares to CCJ are insane due to lack of domestic flights.. I was checking in April and not one good connection...

trinidadeG wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

Are you arguing with yourself?

Did you even read the thread?

Yes I did, the examples you gave are symptomatic of an airline adjusting exiting rights in the absence of additional rights.

If these are enough BASAs, EK will send a 77W to CCU, keep TRV and increase service to BLR.

VTORD wrote:

We all know STV is 30% of BOM traffic so that just leaves the other 70%!

Guys, I was just joking! This was supposed to be a dig at the WWWAS or whatever they are called. Didn't want to flare passions.....

dtw2hyd wrote:

If these are enough BASAs, EK will send a 77W to CCU, keep TRV and increase service to BLR.

Thats an assumption, as Ive pointed out before. Everyones free to hold on to their assumptions.

EKs management have previously gone on record to say that if they were given more seats, they'd fly twice daily A380 to DEL/BOM if they got more seats.

Their priority to serve the big Indian airports is what I was underlining in my post.. Shifting seats out of CCJ/TRV to BLR hints at the same priority, IMO. You're free to deny it.

trinidadeG wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

If these are enough BASAs, EK will send a 77W to CCU, keep TRV and increase service to BLR.

Thats an assumption, as Ive pointed out before. Everyones free to hold on to their assumptions.

Yes, just like your assumption that BLR is great than TRV is the reason EK moved service. Only thing you are presenting your assumption as fact.

Also about Vistara 789 proving flight assumptions. In 2014, the 789 launch customer Air NZ started commercial service in less than a month from delivery. Transtasman is much more complicated than DEL-AMD proving flight. You are making it sound like Vistara took Wright Flyer delivery.

This is 2020, Vistara is struggling to put ONE WB into commercial service.

PP dumped 60 unwanted WBs on AI, and people complain about AI's incompetence for not able to put those in service.

Even if PNQ gets the new airport and is rumored to be about 50 km from the city, the international traffic will not jump, in fact may become worse as many will find it even more convenient to just go to BOM. And let us face it, PNQ does not have the same traffic as many smaller South Indian cities (to Middle East (ex.DXB) and SE Asia) and this clear when you see Indigo (or Spice jet to some extent) jumping all over to start new services from all other cities to Middle east, but has not yet started anything from PNQ. They can get the slots if they want to, since it is for international and for international late night flights are anyway convenient.

Also Pune is as big now because it is fairly close to BOM, as many live/work in Pune since it is cheaper and also many industries are located as they can access the huge BOM market. If Pune was further than BOM (similar to Solapur distance), then I doubt Pune will become as big as it is now.

avier wrote:

bostrv wrote:

acavpics wrote:

If you think PNQ is sad, just hop over to CCJ. Not a single taxiway nor is there a regular DEL flight.

Didnt 6E recently start DEL-CCJ?

Yes, it starts this month-19th March.
With this, they are also re-timing the BOM-CCJ flight from SS'20, and would no longer be the DEL-BOM-CCJ-DXB rotation basically.

I see that flight lasting for one week on Google flights. Nothing after March 28th.

trinidadeG wrote:

vadodara wrote:

Sure but precisely my point. Why cap EK flights? Publish a negative list of airports and open the rest up.

You know, this is all based on an assumption that IF these caps are removed by the government, then Emirates (and other hallowed foreign carriers) will start flying to ALL eligible Indian airports.

Its hard to ignore that these airlines DO favour larger Indian airports. What would you say if, (were the Indian government to allow more seats to DXB) EK would simply dump more A380s and B777s to the bigger Indian airports it already serves, instead of flying from smaller airports which "deserve" more flights??

You and I are free to think highly of India's smaller airports, but these airlines know where their bacon (India-US transit traffic) is, and keep dropping hints.. EK dropped two in 2019.
1) AAI allowed wide-body aircraft to return to CCJ recently. Did Emirates return?? No. It sent FZ instead.
2) EK also recently shifted some flights from TRV (smaller city) to BLR (growing South Indian hub).

Removal of the cap will not benefit the country as many think it would.

But then, part of the reason that EK (And other gulf carriers) has so much Indian connecting traffic to India from Americas and Europe is because it flies to a lot of these smaller cities that were not previously accessible via one stop options. Big cities like BLR, BOM, DEL were always accessible via European carriers. The same cannot be said about cities like Kochi, Trivandrum, Kozhikode etc. Not to mention, most Indian expats in the UAE are Malayalis.

dtw2hyd wrote:

Also about Vistara 789 proving flight assumptions. In 2014, the 789 launch customer Air NZ started commercial service in less than a month from delivery. Transtasman is much more complicated than DEL-AMD proving flight. You are making it sound like Vistara took Wright Flyer delivery.

This is 2020, Vistara is struggling to put ONE WB into commercial service.

PP dumped 60 unwanted WBs on AI, and people complain about AI's incompetence for not able to put those in service.

So personally I don't give 2 hoots about where Vistara flies the 789s. TBH I am getting tired of the perpetual "London-&-Tokyo-are-most-likely-first-destinations" game. I mean announce it already and good riddance to that conversation!

But I am not sure why you would consider UK as "struggling to put 1 WB in to service" by comparing to NZ in 2014. What global pandemic was threatening to halt NZ's Dreamliner ambitions in 2014? Ebola? That was no where in scale to the COVID-19 problem and the epicenter of that problem was about as far as you could get from the bulk of NZ's network. Flash forward to now and you have established (and by all means professionally run) behemoths like QF defering the starts of announced routes, UK's own parent has cut back on services b/w India and SIN, Entire cities and metropolitan areas are being quarantined at this time and India just banned people from 4 more countries from traveling to India 2 of whom are home to large hubs of airlines with heavy presence in the Indian LH market! Why would any sensible airline not hold back on starting LH ops?

fortunerunnner wrote:

hohd wrote:

PNQ as big as it is does not have the international traffic of many smaller South Indian cities. Except for DXB, there is not much ME3 or even SE Asia O & D traffic to/from PNQ. Don't know why it is, may because of the leakage of some traffic to BOM. PNQ had a flight SIN many years ago, but was cancelled due to poor loads.

This is not at all true, the flight to SIN which was axed due to poor loads was never a non-stop flight but rather a one stop option via HYD when it was briefly operated by IC/AI. Later on 9W started SIN flight from PNQ and it was pretty successful until eventual demise of 9W. At one point 9W was also operating AUH flight to feed onto EY network and it was also successful precisely due to international connections it would offer. Both flights ultimately vanished when 9W collapsed.

As far as traffic leakage is concerned, its precisely due to lack of better options from PNQ itself as evident by earlier post from another ANetter who drives to BOM to fly to DEL/MAA as its more convenient for him than taking red eyes from PNQ which are forced upon its population by apathy of air force.

Some post back there was suggestion to have air force shift its operations from PNQ to another airfield or perhaps construct air force specific air field at new airport site which actually is most practical option and should be done. Current PNQ is almost smack dab in the middle of the city and is very convenient if runway is upgraded and civil terminal expanded. Air Force can have its air station at new location away from the main city and thus giving it necessary room to expand as well as security it desires. However, touching defense forces is a taboo subject in India and it will never happen thus normal populace has to suffer and make a trek to BOM or that still to be undetermined location for new airport 50KM from the city.

fortunerunnner wrote:

VTORD wrote:

If I am not wrong 9W's PNQ-SIN flight started sometime around late 2018 and was shut down sometime just before the eventual total shut in early 2019 so not sure whether we should attribute that to poor loads. Also re: leakage to BOM, maybe that is precisely because PNQ is constrained that the leakage to BOM is higher than it would be. I find it hard to believe PNQ can't generate significant demand beyond DXB. If only we had a source that could put numbers against PNQ origin traffic ex-DEL/BOM.

We all know STV is 30% of BOM traffic so that just leaves the other 70%!

There is ample demand to some EU destinations such as FRA as well as DXB/SIN etc. I would even say if and when new airport gets constructed, traffic will increase manifold at PNQ. Perhaps additional EU destinations besides FRA are possible since it can become a primary international gateway for nearby middle size towns such as Satara, Solapur, Sangli, Kolhapur, Aurangabad etc. who now have to make their way to BOM for international connections. Heck even significant portion of PNQ originating passengers fly out from BOM on daily basis and KK Travels who runs door to door cab business has multiple cabs operating every hour between Pune City and BOM. They charge 1000+ Rupees per person and is making a killing due to this. Just take a road trip between BOM-PNQ during midnight hours when most EU/NA flights arrive/depart and you can see number of cabs running between the two to see how many people head to and from BOM every single day.

hohd wrote:

Even if PNQ gets the new airport and is rumored to be about 50 km from the city, the international traffic will not jump, in fact may become worse as many will find it even more convenient to just go to BOM. And let us face it, PNQ does not have the same traffic as many smaller South Indian cities (to Middle East (ex.DXB) and SE Asia) and this clear when you see Indigo (or Spice jet to some extent) jumping all over to start new services from all other cities to Middle east, but has not yet started anything from PNQ. They can get the slots if they want to, since it is for international and for international late night flights are anyway convenient.

Also Pune is as big now because it is fairly close to BOM, as many live/work in Pune since it is cheaper and also many industries are located as they can access the huge BOM market. If Pune was further than BOM (similar to Solapur distance), then I doubt Pune will become as big as it is now.

VTORD, @vadodara, @hohd, @fortunerunner and others: do you have any insights or possible reasons why nobody has relaunched flights between BOM and PNQ after 9W (the sole operator) collapsed? The demand is high enough to fill three or four A320s a day.

Granted, other than the sole service to DXB operated by SG and IX, a city as major as PNQ will remain unconnected to any and all international destinations, while the CNNs and CCJs of the country leap upon every Middle Eastern route they can find (assuming that there is no coronavirus, as the Middle East is now under such a lockdown that CNN may soon be reduced to a PNQ-like state). Also, PNQ will never be graced by an A330, 777 or 787, which are regular occurrences at—if not CCJ—COK or, up north, LKO for that matter.

In that case, why force all the ex-BOM international travellers to take an Uber from PNQ to BOM? Why not operate feeder flights yourself? Or is it too harmful for the environment? Or will Uber and all the taxiwalas make such fat margins that it is not worth flying? This is a question for 6E, AI and G8 to ponder.

dtw2hyd wrote:

This is 2020, Vistara is struggling to put ONE WB into commercial service.

Are you saying an airline run by SQ (which itself operates only WB's and of every kind) , is struggling to put one WB into service? What makes you say that?
And yeah, like someone pointed out, you seem to have conveniently ignored all other issues plaguing the aviation industry globally right now. If anything, they got their WB's into the fleet far quicker than any other Indian airline. Only one that got it much quicker was KF, but lets keep that dead basket case aside.

International travel from to & from India literally completely scuttled by the govt.

Which airline will close this time? SG or G8?

I find it difficult to even imagine how deserted international terminals at Indian airports are going to be for next few days (or months)