Indian Aviation Thread - March 2020

dtw2hyd · Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:29 pm

trinidadeG wrote:
Its a struggle now, eh?? Why, because edealinfo says so??

You can look at their performance over the last five years, no need to rely on others' opinions or assumptions.

Couldn't grow organically, couldn't monetize 9W's demise, couldn't get the cabin config to match market demand, but ready to run AI.

There is a proverb that explains Vistara's situation.

He that can't ride a gentle horse, must not attempt to back a mad colt.

The South Indian version of the same proverb is much lively.

trinidadeG · Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:54 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
trinidadeG wrote:
Its a struggle now, eh?? Why, because edealinfo says so??

You can look at their performance over the last five years, no need to rely on others' opinions or assumptions.

Couldn't grow organically, couldn't monetize 9W's demise, couldn't get the cabin config to match market demand, but ready to run AI.

There is a proverb that explains Vistara's situation.

He that can't ride a gentle horse, must not attempt to back a mad colt.

The South Indian version of the same proverb is much lively.

Looks very similar to edealinfo's opinion to me.....

"Vistara's decisions till date do not fit my personal yardstick of how an airline ought to be run, hence I declare that they're struggling."

You say they couldn't do this and that.. But what if the airline management simply chose not to?

What if they chose not to "grow organically" at the rate you expected, adding unsustainable FSC capacity on domestic routes willy-nilly like 9W did?
What if they chose not to monetise 9Ws demise in a way that you expected?? (they DID take over many 9W slots and routes out of BOM)
What if they're choosing to learn from the market slowly and change seat configs rather than take impulsive decisions like Messrs Goyal and Mallya??
This is the TATAs we're talking of, at the end of the day.

Sure, all of us here are watching some horses prancing about and stating our humble opinions based on what we perceive, but I believe that some of us are aware of the Chessboard under the horses feet, while others are only commenting on a Rodeo performance....

edealinfo · Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:31 pm

avier wrote:
Be it using BOM or NMIA, either ways, Punekars are going to be using the two Mumbai airports for a long time to come.

Knowing the lackadaisical MH gov and the pace of their project developments, this might be the reality. I just hope the new Pune int'l airport comes up before NMIA, lest the MH govt becomes complacent over developing the new Pune airport saying Punekars are happy with NMIA and it will now serve as the new airport for the city, thereby scrapping the new Pune airport project altogether.

Is the New Mumbai airport on the way from Mumbai to Pune or is it in a different direction?

edealinfo · Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:36 pm

So, on to my pet subject.....Vistara.

Are they taking delivery of their 787 now that they can't realistically fly it anywhere for the next 3 months at least (because of the coronavirus? How much have they, or the lessor, already paid in pre-delivery payments? If they defer delivery, will the lessor still require them to pay the lease rates?

Because of travel and flight bans, the only way from Europe to the US is now essentially through London. So, the ghost flights to LHR will continue and Vistara's chances of getting slots ain't necessarily getting better, coronavirus or not.

edealinfo · Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:41 pm

I found an paper of pre-delivery payment but didn't have time to go through it (prefer one-page summaries). Basically teh pre-delivery payment is only about 30%. That's not much in the grand scheme of things relative it to it baking under Delhi's sun. Heck, Vistara should DEFER delivery NOW!!! If only they heed my advice........but no, they will rely on the Tata geniuses deputed to Vistara!

https://www.vedderprice.com/-/media/fil ... action.pdf

dtw2hyd · Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:46 pm

Delta suspended JFK-BOM. It appears whenever AA announces India, Chapter 11 shows up. Happened after ORD-DEL and now the rumors.

UA is the only one able to sustain India ops.

edealinfo · Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:49 pm

the 787 production spreadsheet shows that Vistara's second aircraft to be delivered this month has not taken its first flight as yet. I suspect delivery will be deferred anyway by teh manufacturer/Boeing (regardless of whether Vistara wanted it or not) but for how long I don't know. Remember Seattle/Washington State is a hotspot for the coronovirus.

edealinfo · Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:51 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Delta suspended JFK-BOM. It appears whenever AA announces India, Chapter 11 shows up. Happened after ORD-DEL and now the rumors.

UA is the only one able to sustain India ops.

So, if you have AA miles do you cash out now on getting a ticket on their partner airline or do the miles usually survive bankruptcy? If they don't, no one would ever use American Advantage credit cards that offer miles which I believe right now are through Citibank and Barclays.

CaliguyNYC · Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:55 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Delta suspended JFK-BOM. It appears whenever AA announces India, Chapter 11 shows up. Happened after ORD-DEL and now the rumors.

UA is the only one able to sustain India ops.

I think you are reading too much into this. India announced a ban on all foreigners from entering India. Lots of airlines are stopping flights. DL is very new on the JFK-BOM route and their J class is driven by US origin travelers. UA has the luxury of a long history on EWR-BOM and the huge STAR FF base in India (thanks to AI and LH). I think DL will just funnel all BOM traffic through LHR and then VS to BOM. Will probably serve whatever Skyteam / DL loyal pax who still are flying.. I expect AF and KL to stop flights to india real soon or maybe maintain CDG-DEL just to have some connection and serve cargo

edealinfo · Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:01 pm

GST on MROs reduced to 5% in India.

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/gst ... 17021.html

chepos · Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:08 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Delta suspended JFK-BOM. It appears whenever AA announces India, Chapter 11 shows up. Happened after ORD-DEL and now the rumors.

UA is the only one able to sustain India ops.

AA started ORD-DEL in 2005, it declared BK in 2011 (6 years after it started DEL).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

edealinfo · Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:16 pm

Now flights from the UK and Ireland to the US are also banned. The poor Americans who are abroad in Europe are now left to fend for themselves as the US government would rather have their soon-to-be-sick citizens left on someone else's soil and not included in the US "count" of coronavirus victims. Window dressing, unfortunately at its best.

chepos · Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:20 pm

edealinfo wrote:
Now flights from the UK and Ireland to the US are also banned. The poor Americans who are abroad in Europe are now left to fend for themselves as the US government would rather have their soon-to-be-sick citizens left on someone else's soil and not included in the US "count" of coronavirus victims.

US citizens will still be allowed into the country. However, they are being asked to self quarantine upon return. In this time of everyone being a bit stressed please post responsibly.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

edealinfo · Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:34 pm

chepos wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Now flights from the UK and Ireland to the US are also banned. The poor Americans who are abroad in Europe are now left to fend for themselves as the US government would rather have their soon-to-be-sick citizens left on someone else's soil and not included in the US "count" of coronavirus victims.

US citizens will still be allowed into the country. However, they are being asked to self quarantine upon return. In this time of everyone being a bit stressed please post responsibly.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And how are they supposed to get from Europe to the US? Swim across the Atlantic Ocean?

edealinfo · Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:07 pm

SpiceJet, GMR sign pact to develop a free trade zone at Hyderabad

Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... 619739.cms?

dtw2hyd · Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:39 pm

edealinfo wrote:
chepos wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Now flights from the UK and Ireland to the US are also banned. The poor Americans who are abroad in Europe are now left to fend for themselves as the US government would rather have their soon-to-be-sick citizens left on someone else's soil and not included in the US "count" of coronavirus victims.

US citizens will still be allowed into the country. However, they are being asked to self quarantine upon return. In this time of everyone being a bit stressed please post responsibly.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And how are they supposed to get from Europe to the US? Swim across the Atlantic Ocean?

Flights are not banned, just foreign nationals, originating from or visited EU/UK. Cargo is not banned.

So airlines are trying to figure out TATL capacity to support belly Cargo and returning US Citizens.

What US should have done with China, Japan or Korea long back, doing it with Europe/UK.

The announcements are so vague, don't quote me on anything I said.

edealinfo · Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:27 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
chepos wrote:
US citizens will still be allowed into the country. However, they are being asked to self quarantine upon return. In this time of everyone being a bit stressed please post responsibly.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And how are they supposed to get from Europe to the US? Swim across the Atlantic Ocean?

Flights are not banned, just foreign nationals, originating from or visited EU/UK. Cargo is not banned.

So airlines are trying to figure out TATL capacity to support belly Cargo and returning US Citizens.

What US should have done with China, Japan or Korea long back, doing it with Europe/UK.

The announcements are so vague, don't quote me on anything I said.

The thing about flights transatlantic
1. The traffic, if any would only be US citizens returning back from Europe to US. How many are left there?
2. How many US citizens want to fly from the US to Europe; zero.
3. It is hard to operate flights if the plane will be empty one way.
4. There really is no business case.
5. Expect massive cancellations to Germany, France and Spain......and much of Europe. Flights, if any, will be token.
6. Europe and USA are grinding to a hauult .

edealinfo · Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:49 am

Per today’s Business Standard newspaper

“No need for aviation sector to worry about coronavirus: Hardeep Puri”

O’brother. Do they have to be lying politicians

FligtReporter · Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:17 am

Wuhan Virus has drastically effected not only the aviation sector but also the tourism industry in general.I just pray that Wuhan Coronavirus is contained by some sort of a medicine soon so the world could be back to normal

FligtReporter · Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:24 am

avier wrote:
Be it using BOM or NMIA, either ways, Punekars are going to be using the two Mumbai airports for a long time to come.

Knowing the lackadaisical MH gov and the pace of their project developments, this might be the reality. I just hope the new Pune int'l airport comes up before NMIA, lest the MH govt becomes complacent over developing the new Pune airport saying Punekars are happy with NMIA and it will now serve as the new airport for the city, thereby scrapping the new Pune airport project altogether.

Your words are somewhat simillar to that of my Punekar folks in PNQ..they say the same thing for them they feel PNQ might never get a full fledged Intl airport and a dream of ever catching a direct flight from PNQ to EU,SEA may never be fullfilled because of NMIA which the MAH GOV is working more promptly to get completed with than they are with the new PNQ Airport and they too think its purposely done because NMIA will be more closer to Pune than present BOM Airport and that would sort of give the MAH authorities an excuse to never built the new PNQ Airport as they would by default make NMIA Serve BOM and PNQ both.

What a messy state of affairs and really sad for PNQ folks

sand26391 · Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:17 pm

Some interesting numbers below:-

TOTAL SEATS OFFERED AT DEL,BOM,BLR,MAA and HYD for 2015 through 2019 along with the % change vs 2015.

1) DELHI

2015- 58,029,810
2016- 68,525,853
2017- 76,222,634
2018- 81,312,652
2019- 81,848,603
% change vs 2015= 41

2) MUMBAI

2015- 52,149,225
2016- 55,649,981
2017- 57,436,377
2018- 58,903,848
2019- 56,136,864
% change vs 2015= 8

3) BANGALORE

2015- 22,614,244
2016- 27,613,552
2017- 29,653,381
2018- 37,945,135
2019- 38,984,721
% change vs 2015= 72

4) CHENNAI

2015- 19,110,980
2016- 22,143,686
2017- 24,000,234
2018- 27,591,382
2019- 27,323,157
% change vs 2015= 43

5) HYDERABAD

2015- 15,391,665
2016- 19,256,476
2017- 22,840,430
2018- 27,298,945
2019- 29,146,916
% change vs 2015= 89

pune · Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:21 pm

edealinfo wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
Khajuraho group of monuments

Hopefully, someday.

There are so many other beautiful sights in India that could could market to the world if only they they maintained them well. They should led corporates "adopt" these sites if the Govt doesn't have enough money to invest in them. The corporates would love chipping in -- its their "social responsibility" contribution --- and the resulting goodwill is their payback.

Kudos to the Dear Leader for his sanitation initiative. I know the Government has achieved a lot of goals with regard to construction of toilets but hopefully people are actually using them!
.

There is this which was shared by Dhruv Rathee few months back -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bzjA0xhW24

Totally private infrastructure developed unlike the Statue of Unity at very cheap price which will be handed to the Govt. after 50-60 odd years. I do like the idea of also having safety and adventure sports although with the recent corona virus breakout it probably will be few months to a year when people from outside india who come as tourists will be able to experience. Anyways, Kochi is always there for people going on leisure travel as well as the backpacker community.

pune · Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:57 pm

edealinfo wrote:
https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/economy/logistics/grant-thornton-ceo-says-end-of-the-road-for-jet-airways/article31014420.ece

Near the end of the road for Jet Airways, says Grant Thornton CEO

India's are masters of playing the chicken and egg scenario. From the very beginning the DCGA had no intention of re-allocating Jet's slots to a potential successful bidder but refused to call a spade a spade. In fact, they did just the opposite promising slots and then ensured the rigmarole. Why does the DCGA conduct the charade when it is not needed. Jet's bankruptcy was unnecessarily delayed -- bad for creditors, bad for employees who who thought there was some hope, bad for bidders, bad for India's reputation for business. With the latter, it has already taken a beating with AGR, retrospective taxation, requiring companies store data locally, etc.

Grant Thornton’s CEO in a tweet apologised to the grounded airline’s employees, “I’m sorry to report but I fear we are very near the end of the road for #JetAirways- the proverbial ‘chicken or egg’ is what killed the airline- my apologies to all the employees in particular that we @GrantThorntonIN couldn’t do better for you.” BusinessLine had reported that while Synergy wanted clarity on Jet’s Heathrow slots from the Directorate-General of Civil Aviation (DGCA), the Indian authorities told the company to first place a bid. According to a Grant Thornton employee, the reference to the ‘chicken or egg’ proverb in Chandiok’s tweet was to who would be the first mover, Synergy or the Indian government authorities.

the whole AGR (Adjusted Gross Revenue) as well as retrospective tax has been done to death multiple times that both are bad policies for trade and investment. Harish Salve, eminent Indian Supreme Court lawyer had shared a video of the same about couple of hours which youtube removed recently. The only video I can get of him stating that now is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxSEWfNxNww all in all, if I were an international investor I wouldn't invest in India when I have other options to invest my money.

pune · Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:04 pm

hohd wrote:
At the rate Indigo is expanding, soon it will have more than 50% of the traffic in India. Does India have any monopoly or antitrust policy for an private business entity which has more than 50% share. Not that Indigo will increase prices (it is known for dumping capacity and low prices), but if something happens to Indigo, it will be a difficult few months for airline travel to recover.

There is or was an ancient MRTP Act which was replaced by Competition Act, 2002 which is supposed to do what you say above but has been ineffective in doing anything. The Act lacks teeth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Compe ... t_position

This has failed spectacularly in the last 18 years it has been in service . See a recent article which shares a few case studies of the same.

https://blog.ipleaders.in/competition-a ... ve-intent/

There was a 9-member body which was constituted to look into a new law, which made a report but that's about it.

https://www.latestlaws.com/latest-news/ ... vironment/

https://prsindia.org/policy/report-summ ... -committee

pune · Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:16 pm

edealinfo wrote:
hohd wrote:
At the rate Indigo is expanding, soon it will have more than 50% of the traffic in India. Does India have any monopoly or antitrust policy for an private business entity which has more than 50% share. Not that Indigo will increase prices (it is known for dumping capacity and low prices), but if something happens to Indigo, it will be a difficult few months for airline travel to recover.

I don't believe there is any such law. However, there is a "Competition Authority" that makes the rules as they deem fit (just like the Indian Supreme Court which legislates from the bench - i.e., dispenses its own justice not necessarily tied to actual legislation). From a PR perspective, Indigo would be smart not to cross the 50% threshold in the domestic market which would only invite trouble. Too bad the coronavirus has played spoil sport for using their planes in the overseas market. Separately, they said they wanted to fly to Moscow. Could the A321 or A320 neo do Moscow to Delhi? Russia is largely unscathed from the virus.

I just shared that there is an act but how miserable it is and how it has failed India. The current dispensation doesn't have any interest other than maintaining a status quo.

pune · Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:23 pm

JOYA380B747 wrote:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/pune/avoid-personal-cars-for-going-to-airport-authorities/articleshow/74532303.cms

PNQ now is an airport (coincidentally one of India's busiest) that does NOT have vehicle parking facility currently, and will not for a year at least. So much so that AAI is now dictating travelers how they are supposed to travel to the airport. This is India ladies and gentlement where you do not have parking for an airport of 10 million pax/ year.

This is what I have to do whenever I have to fly out. There is simply no other way and has been the state for about 6-7 years now. And mind you, this has been under Central Govt, Ministry of Civil Aviation since inception. The issue has been stuck at land acquisition again for several years now. See https://www.hindustantimes.com/pune-new ... HSMbN.html

pune · Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:28 pm

FligtReporter wrote:
JOYA380B747 wrote:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/pune/avoid-personal-cars-for-going-to-airport-authorities/articleshow/74532303.cms

PNQ now is an airport (coincidentally one of India's busiest) that does NOT have vehicle parking facility currently, and will not for a year at least. So much so that AAI is now dictating travelers how they are supposed to travel to the airport. This is India ladies and gentlement where you do not have parking for an airport of 10 million pax/ year.

I never thought it would be a news one day but having gone through PNQ a few times I have to say my relatives' heads are down with shame when I ask them "Are there any plans to connect this airport with Metro ?" and their response is "Not Possible Unless Pune Gets a New Airport because this one is run by Air Force"

That is a pitty indeed.Looking at GOI,PNQ,BOM,CCU also HYD and BLR which must NOT ONLY have a great parking facility but also a Metro connection is must but sadly none of these Major cities have em.

These are the only 3 Cities that I have been to where I have seen Direct Metro Connection With the Airport
1. LKO ( LUCKNOW aka My Home base )
2. IGI ( DELHI )
3. MAA ( CHENNAI )

There have been rumors of metro being extended to the Lohegaon Airport and it would make sense for lot of commuters both from Hinjewadi as well as central part of town. Today we have to rely on cabs, autorikshaws etc. to make the trip. Would make things lot easier. But it will take a long long time. The metro itself is overdue. it is supposed to start a small part of its operations come this December . Trial runs were run on small stretch of Pune Metro earlier this year but it has a long road to travel still.

pune · Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:31 pm

FligtReporter wrote:
VTCIE wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:

I never thought it would be a news one day but having gone through PNQ a few times I have to say my relatives' heads are down with shame when I ask them "Are there any plans to connect this airport with Metro ?" and their response is "Not Possible Unless Pune Gets a New Airport because this one is run by Air Force"

That is a pitty indeed.Looking at GOI,PNQ,BOM,CCU also HYD and BLR which must NOT ONLY have a great parking facility but also a Metro connection is must but sadly none of these Major cities have em.

These are the only 3 Cities that I have been to where I have seen Direct Metro Connection With the Airport
1. LKO ( LUCKNOW aka My Home base )
2. IGI ( DELHI )
3. MAA ( CHENNAI )

JOYA380B747 wrote:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/pune/avoid-personal-cars-for-going-to-airport-authorities/articleshow/74532303.cms

PNQ now is an airport (coincidentally one of India's busiest) that does NOT have vehicle parking facility currently, and will not for a year at least. So much so that AAI is now dictating travelers how they are supposed to travel to the airport. This is India ladies and gentlement where you do not have parking for an airport of 10 million pax/ year.

PNQ is the only big Indian metro that is hamstrung by such a small and constrained airport. Reminds me of TXL in Berlin. At least Brandenburg is going to come up, but Purandar, God knows!

My folks at PNQ told me that this new proposed airport nearby Purandar is supposedly 50 Something KMs from the city and even if its built ( Which they told me,may take about 50 Years lol ) it will be very difficult for city residents to reach unless there is a metro connection and given the high improbability of the city expanding towards the proposed new airport site with geographical cobstraints and terrain its very near to impossible that this new airport would come up anytime soon so they are gonna be stuck with this Air force Station cum Airport forever.

They did tell me that because of all this mess they might never get a wide body aircraft or many intrrnational airlines unless they get a new airport and that obviously is a distant dream...PNQ has to be the unluckiest City in the country and its really sad that such a city is stuck with such a poor infrastructure !

sadly, your folks are right to the button

pune · Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:39 pm

edealinfo wrote:
fortunerunnner wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
My folks at PNQ told me that this new proposed airport nearby Purandar is supposedly 50 Something KMs from the city and even if its built ( Which they told me,may take about 50 Years lol ) it will be very difficult for city residents to reach unless there is a metro connection and given the high improbability of the city expanding towards the proposed new airport site with geographical cobstraints and terrain its very near to impossible that this new airport would come up anytime soon so they are gonna be stuck with this Air force Station cum Airport forever.

They did tell me that because of all this mess they might never get a wide body aircraft or many intrrnational airlines unless they get a new airport and that obviously is a distant dream...PNQ has to be the unluckiest City in the country and its really sad that such a city is stuck with such a poor infrastructure !

While new site as Purandar is far its not that different from HYD or BLR when it comes to distance from the city. There are plans to create expressway/ring road which will connect the city with the airport so it wont be too difficult to reach there if and when airport gets constructed. As far as your other assertion about being unluckiest city in the country, its holds true as its only metro which is not a capital city of their state so it lacks necessary attention from the political establishment. As a NRI of Puneri background, this hurts as I needlessly have to waste 4-5 hours on top of taking almost 24 hour flights to reach my hometown from BOM or fly with AI via Delhi (UA recently became an option but it lacks 2 bag allowance which is a must for returning NRI).

Why do 10 m people need to move further for the airport. Why can’t the less than 10k air personnel move to the new airport and let the population fully enjoy PNQ?

please, you are talking sense but this will not probably not fly because there are probably a whole host of military facilities there. Moving that to Purandar would be good but would need a proposal and a study (cost-benefit analysis) done by Indian defence. There probably would be huge costs which would have to be borne by Indian Air Force which is paid/budgeted peanuts compared to their brothers in the Indian Army . It probably will come down to who will bear the costs among other aspects. Purandar is also hilly region so it will be tricky, although if civil aviation is supposed to work there, then don't see any issues with Indian Air force as they are far more manouverable than a civilian airplane. At the end, I guess it's all about political capital and right now, Pune has no guardians except for Ajit Pawar who may have his own priorties.

pune · Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:47 pm

BawliBooch wrote:
subramak1 wrote:
PNQ is the airbase that protect Mumbai and Bombay High oil fields and is geared towards to that . PNQ airbase may not be sufficient to be a full fledged airport a la bangalore/ hyderabad

KK

There are 2 airfields in Nashik one of which (HAL Ozar) is currently under used can be easily upgraded to play the role currently played by PNQ airbase - ie 2 min interceptor coverage for oil fields in Bombay High. If the Air Force vacates PNQ, there is enough space to upgrade the airport+terminal to international standards. Issue is new airport development in Rajgurunagar/Purandar is more lucrative for politicians. The last time this plan was proposed, the excuse used was the presence of the Southern Command HQ in Pune allowing for "joint ops" - an exercise that has remained theoretical for past 35 years!

It is not just length. The PNQ runway will have to be upgraded to handle widebody landings. In the early 90's, Indian Airlines operated a A300B2 for a military charter as a test and it punched holes in the runway! Air India operated an A310 4/5 years later on the inaugural BOM-PNQ-DXQ route and it seemed to have gone better. Later replaced with AIX 737-800.

On the money. I have been near the HAL Ozar . There are actually few universities having vast campuses around HAL so that could have been exploited. The first time I went there few years ago, I had the same idea and had asked people around. I even asked some of the low-level HAL employees and they had been positive about it. It would have been so much easier for everybody, our fighter aircraft would always have the best of maintainance and HAL employees would have constant source of work which would have been good. And this as has been shared has been known for around 30-35 years but for reasons unknown (greed of politicans) has never been to fruition. I always feel Indian Air Force has always been short-changed. Force magazine has also echoed this view as well as many other people but that probably is a topic for another day.

dtw2hyd · Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:30 pm

edealinfo wrote:
...
The thing about flights transatlantic
1. The traffic, if any would only be US citizens returning back from Europe to US. How many are left there?
2. How many US citizens want to fly from the US to Europe; zero.
3. It is hard to operate flights if the plane will be empty one way.
4. There really is no business case.
5. Expect massive cancellations to Germany, France and Spain......and much of Europe. Flights, if any, will be token.
6. Europe and USA are grinding to a hauult .

All valid points, but TATL passenger/cargo traffic will never be zero. US Citizens in Europe or Europeans in the US cannot leave in one or two weeks. We are already seeing multiple frequencies are disappearing, so does points of presence.

pune · Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:43 pm

FligtReporter wrote:
BawliBooch wrote:
subramak1 wrote:
PNQ is the airbase that protect Mumbai and Bombay High oil fields and is geared towards to that . PNQ airbase may not be sufficient to be a full fledged airport a la bangalore/ hyderabad

KK

There are 2 airfields in Nashik one of which (HAL Ozar) is currently under used can be easily upgraded to play the role currently played by PNQ airbase - ie 2 min interceptor coverage for oil fields in Bombay High. If the Air Force vacates PNQ, there is enough space to upgrade the airport+terminal to international standards. Issue is new airport development in Rajgurunagar/Purandar is more lucrative for politicians. The last time this plan was proposed, the excuse used was the presence of the Southern Command HQ in Pune allowing for "joint ops" - an exercise that has remained theoretical for past 35 years!

It is not just length. The PNQ runway will have to be upgraded to handle widebody landings. In the early 90's, Indian Airlines operated a A300B2 for a military charter as a test and it punched holes in the runway! Air India operated an A310 4/5 years later on the inaugural BOM-PNQ-DXQ route and it seemed to have gone better. Later replaced with AIX 737-800.

I just measured on Google Earth and it seems PNQ has the runway size equal to that of my base however the civil tarmac is half the size of LKO all thats needed is the increasing of the tarmac for up to a KM and get a new terminal simple.

Because We handle regular A330-300s and at times 744s and 788s too so if LKO runway and tarmac can handle these big birds I think PNQ with a little upgradation could possibly have direct flights from Sudia,Malaysia,SIA,Thai and even Lufthansa because PNQ has demand for EU but sadly it lacks the infrastructure..the MAH and GOI needs to get it sorted because the airport is the gateway of opportunities into and out of any city,a very major part of all the cities around the globe and Pune being one of our metro cities should have it ASAP but its only possible when MAH GOV and GOI start treating PNQ like they treat BOM

Again onto point but don't think they will do that. In India politicans need an incentive structure (probably like other politicans do) and for them developmental projects like these don't translate into votes unlike a metro or something. Even if people make sensible suggestions, there won't be any action soon. We were promised many things but nothing happened

pune · Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:46 pm

FligtReporter wrote:
VTCIE wrote:
edealinfo wrote:
Pakyong airport is back online in Sikkim but no airline wants to fly to the ghost airport

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.financ ... 3243/lite/

You put the 6E and UK link here. The correct link is as follows: http://voiceofsikkim.com/2020/03/09/pak ... ation-aai/

In any case, PYG is cursed. The difficult terrain means nobody wants to fly there and make it easy for consumers who want to get closer to Sikkim than IXB.

FligtReporter wrote:

I just measured on Google Earth and it seems PNQ has the runway size equal to that of my base however the civil tarmac is half the size of LKO all thats needed is the increasing of the tarmac for up to a KM and get a new terminal simple.

Because We handle regular A330-300s and at times 744s and 788s too so if LKO runway and tarmac can handle these big birds I think PNQ with a little upgradation could possibly have direct flights from Sudia,Malaysia,SIA,Thai and even Lufthansa because PNQ has demand for EU but sadly it lacks the infrastructure..the MAH and GOI needs to get it sorted because the airport is the gateway of opportunities into and out of any city,a very major part of all the cities around the globe and Pune being one of our metro cities should have it ASAP but its only possible when MAH GOV and GOI start treating PNQ like they treat BOM

Much smaller cities like TRZ, IXM, IXE and CNN have plenty of international flights simply because they are South Indian, even though they are far removed from the state capitals of MAA, BLR and TRV. Indeed, as I have mentioned, IXC and GOI despite being civil enclaves (part-military) get lots of love. (The ‘shameless Puri’ argument applies only to ATQ and not IXC, even though both are in Punjab.) How come only PNQ should suffer?

I am also reminded of GAU whose only international tenant is currently Drukair. SG cancelled flights to Dhaka and Nok Air cancelled flights to Bangkok DMK. As much as CCU is enjoying a Southeast Asian boom from 6E, GAU is completely neglected.

Why are these step motherly treatment to these airports anyways ? This reminds of my a neighbouring town to my base KNU whose Partial military air base is used as a civil airport and same for IXD and AGR ..Oh and GOP as well..Damn I guess in my state only LKO and VNS are two fully Functional Civil International airports others are just at the mercy of Air Force.

This PNQ plight has now ignited a fire in my avgeek heart to do more research about such cities which are at the mercy of Air Force but do deserve a fully functional Civil Airports with full liberty and freedom.

Hmm...I will research and list down all the
(AAMOAF) = AIRPORTS AT THE MERCY OF AIR FORCE...Its high time the Aviation authority gives all these towns and cities their right to a proper civil aerodrome ans hope it happens soon !

Hope you do make the list soon, would be of invaluable service to Indian civil aviation enthusiasts like myself.

pune · Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:53 pm

hohd wrote:
PNQ as big as it is does not have the international traffic of many smaller South Indian cities. Except for DXB, there is not much ME3 or even SE Asia O & D traffic to/from PNQ. Don't know why it is, may because of the leakage of some traffic to BOM. PNQ had a flight SIN many years ago, but was cancelled due to poor loads.

That was because it was not advertised properly. I came to know about the SIN route only because I was part of a.net otherwise would have been oblivious. And anyways, civil aviation still serves only a few percentage in this country, we still have to go a long way before we can say ok. For these loads of things would have to improve, loads, destinations, tarrifs which are reasonable vis-a-vis other modes of transport and low taxation on aircraft oil among other things. India should also do lot of R&D but this is probably just a dream atm.

pune · Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:06 pm

sand26391 wrote:
vadodara wrote:
VTORD wrote:
We all know STV is 30% of BOM traffic so that just leaves the other 70%!

Only the Class F/J are BOM origin! Rest come from likes of STV, PNQ, BDQ etc!

Says who? Abt stats to prove this? I keep hearing this fake statements in every forum. But no one provides any proof. The pax at BOM is a mix of connecting and BOM origin, there's no proof, statistics, numbers, infographics etc on any of these forums about this exaggerated & useless statement. Yes a significant part of the Int'l pax at BOM are transit passengers (I'm talking about in a whole day, not a single flight). But no way we can say they come from "SURAT, BDQ, PNQ..." only.

From Pune, I can share quite a few anecdotal stories of either me or my friends who have had to take flights from BOM to x . As far as the PNQ to BOM is concerned, only ola/uber can share those stats as they are now the biggest players around.

pune · Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:23 pm

fortunerunnner wrote:
hohd wrote:
Even if PNQ gets the new airport and is rumored to be about 50 km from the city, the international traffic will not jump, in fact may become worse as many will find it even more convenient to just go to BOM. And let us face it, PNQ does not have the same traffic as many smaller South Indian cities (to Middle East (ex.DXB) and SE Asia) and this clear when you see Indigo (or Spice jet to some extent) jumping all over to start new services from all other cities to Middle east, but has not yet started anything from PNQ. They can get the slots if they want to, since it is for international and for international late night flights are anyway convenient.

Also Pune is as big now because it is fairly close to BOM, as many live/work in Pune since it is cheaper and also many industries are located as they can access the huge BOM market. If Pune was further than BOM (similar to Solapur distance), then I doubt Pune will become as big as it is now.

Pune is not listed as a port of call for many of the International destinations/bi-laterals and operating services there is restricted due to it. Its a fact that Flydubai wanted to operate to PNQ as one of their first destinations in India, Air Force put a block on it for whatever reason so its not true that any airline can start service at Pune. It is simply not that straight forward, they have to first secure the slot but also get NOC from Air Force to start operating there. These issues will dissipate if and when new airport gets constructed and if there are flights/facilities there then demand will organically grow as well.

Next part of this post is now deviating from aviation but I think its relevant to shed some light to what makes Pune grow and correct assumptions that its growing as a far distant suburb of BOM, thats just laughable.

I'm not sure if @hohd is from the area to understand the nuances when it comes to Pune/BOM and its relationship with regards to why Pune grew to the size it is today and driving forces behind it. This has nothing to do with real estate market in BOM or costs associated with it, it might have been true in earlier days when Tata Motors (Telco), Bajaj, Force (Bajaj) Motors (Firodia Industries) etc. opened assembly lines there back in 60s/70s. However the exponential growth of last couple of decades is because its been chosen as a destination of choice by many multinational orgs for their backoffice/IT Development centers etc. The reason for it is not because its closer to BOM but because of availability of the talent pool. Pune has some of most renounced education institutions in India (COEP/PICT/Symbiosis/VIT/VIIT/MIT etc etc.) and they churn out thousands of graduates every year with in demand skills. This is what drove the IT Boom and then add Infotech parks/special economic zones etc. and thats what made Pune grow to the size it is today.

on the money. Even John Deere has a base for their software works in Hinjewadi. It is possible that even TSLA might have done some off-shoring work as well but we wouldn't come to know of that.

pune · Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:35 pm

AirIndia wrote:
vadodara wrote:
Thank you! It seems like the Mumbaikar’s still haven’t gotten over the fact that the sakharam’s were happily shaking every Mallu who was returning home after a stint to the gulf.

Ha Ha Ha.... cant unsee the visualization of that....

that probably was true till probably a few years ago, now as south gets more airports, it probably will be the other way around

pune · Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:42 pm

fortunerunnner wrote:
hohd wrote:
I have lived in Pune for a brief period in the 90's but things have changed drastically now so cannot compare my brief stay there with situation now. However BOM does have the benefit of many transit passengers, but bulk of the passengers are from BOM and surroundings. And there are some from PNQ (and also Surat) as well.

No doubt about that, BOM is a mega city and financial capital of India, no one can claim BOM traffic is due to folks travelling there from BDQ, STV, PNQ etc. Yes, not insignificant number of people travel to BOM to take international flight who would otherwise take it from their hometown if options were available, but its not so significant to claim BOM is sustained only based on that. Again, that is just laughable and person claiming such is not worth to get into a discussion with.

hohd wrote:
PNQ on its own can manage flights to DXB, and may be one other Middle East city and probably to FRA and may be at most SIN.

Also how is the new airport going to solve the problems, with the airport itself will be about 50 kms from the city and many who travel internationally would rather prefer to just go to BOM for their international flights. However for domestic travel, PNQ will benefit greatly with the new airport.

Key here is, what you have listed is true in today's world if airport existed which could handle widebodies and airlines have the necessary slots/rights required to do so. However, how can you be so confident that people would not use the new airport if gets constructed and demand will not grow. Going 50 KM on a decent ring road is way better than going 200KM on an expressway which routinely gets shut down due to accidents and gamble with Mumbai traffic to get to BOM. If people have an option at the new airport if and when it gets constructed and airlines add the flights, then 10 years from now some other destinations would become viable as well. Growth will come organically in such cases as you can see at BLR/HYD etc. Saying there is no need for a new airport because people wont travel 50 Km and saying BOM is sufficient to provide for a growing city is preposterous.

I usually take the morning/evening train to BOM, then use the local to near the airport. There are apparently some lines which will go all the way to Bombay airport in the near future, my last was couple of years ago from BOM, that would convenience Mumbai travellers as well as people like me who come from Pune. I enjoy trains rather than buses but that's my own preference

pune · Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:46 pm

fortunerunnner wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
hohd wrote:
PNQ on its own can manage flights to DXB, and may be one other Middle East city and probably to FRA and may be at most SIN.

Nopes PNQ can not handle NON STOP flights from EU because if LUFTHANSA or other cariers decide to fly to PNQ with a wide body then it will only be possible when PNQ gets a bigger Tarmac but yeah it could possibly get 738s or 320s of mid east cariers also Thai Smile and given the currnt domestic traffic of PNQ it will be more harder for any Intl cariers to begin their ops from PNQ especially those with WIDEBODIES.

Exactly the reason why MH government should get off their behinds (would have used some other terminology but want to keep it civil ) and start long delayed land acquisition and move on with the project. If no new international destinations are added in the short term, new airport is still required for Pune as even domestic traffic is held hostage by Air Force and every single day there is 3-4 hour blackout of traffic during prime hours due to Air Force sorties which they need to run. It will greatly benefit the city, surrounding region and spur organic growth by making city even more attractive to FDI.

you also seem to forget the approach road to PNQ airport and that whole bit from Yerwada to Pune Airport. That whole bit is barely motorable. I know of people who usually walk rather than use any transport if they don't have big bags or such as it's nightmare to drive till the airport, especially that route. There have been countless proposals to improve the road but fallen on deaf ears.

pune · Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:54 pm

avier wrote:
Be it using BOM or NMIA, either ways, Punekars are going to be using the two Mumbai airports for a long time to come.

Knowing the lackadaisical MH gov and the pace of their project developments, this might be the reality. I just hope the new Pune int'l airport comes up before NMIA, lest the MH govt becomes complacent over developing the new Pune airport saying Punekars are happy with NMIA and it will now serve as the new airport for the city, thereby scrapping the new Pune airport project altogether.

This is very much possible. So much for our politicians

pune · Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:58 pm

edealinfo wrote:
GST on MROs reduced to 5% in India.

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/gst ... 17021.html

Good and bad news together. Seems that the Govt. thinks mobile phones are a luxury while MRO is not. While MRO taxation needs had to be lowered, raising mobile prices again is not going to be good for the Indian consumer

edealinfo · Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:33 pm

On the subject of the sale of Air India:

given the timing (caronavirus and uncertainty), will it be wise for Vistara to bid for Air India (possibly buy at bargain basement price because given the circumstances that’s probably the only price Air India could fetch), or downright foolish (throwing good money after possibly bad)?

FligtReporter · Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:33 am

pune wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
VTCIE wrote:
You put the 6E and UK link here. The correct link is as follows: http://voiceofsikkim.com/2020/03/09/pak ... ation-aai/

In any case, PYG is cursed. The difficult terrain means nobody wants to fly there and make it easy for consumers who want to get closer to Sikkim than IXB.

Much smaller cities like TRZ, IXM, IXE and CNN have plenty of international flights simply because they are South Indian, even though they are far removed from the state capitals of MAA, BLR and TRV. Indeed, as I have mentioned, IXC and GOI despite being civil enclaves (part-military) get lots of love. (The ‘shameless Puri’ argument applies only to ATQ and not IXC, even though both are in Punjab.) How come only PNQ should suffer?

I am also reminded of GAU whose only international tenant is currently Drukair. SG cancelled flights to Dhaka and Nok Air cancelled flights to Bangkok DMK. As much as CCU is enjoying a Southeast Asian boom from 6E, GAU is completely neglected.

Why are these step motherly treatment to these airports anyways ? This reminds of my a neighbouring town to my base KNU whose Partial military air base is used as a civil airport and same for IXD and AGR ..Oh and GOP as well..Damn I guess in my state only LKO and VNS are two fully Functional Civil International airports others are just at the mercy of Air Force.

This PNQ plight has now ignited a fire in my avgeek heart to do more research about such cities which are at the mercy of Air Force but do deserve a fully functional Civil Airports with full liberty and freedom.

Hmm...I will research and list down all the
(AAMOAF) = AIRPORTS AT THE MERCY OF AIR FORCE...Its high time the Aviation authority gives all these towns and cities their right to a proper civil aerodrome ans hope it happens soon !

Hope you do make the list soon, would be of invaluable service to Indian civil aviation enthusiasts like myself.

Its under construction..will be released soon !

FligtReporter · Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:05 am

pune wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
VTCIE wrote:
You put the 6E and UK link here. The correct link is as follows: http://voiceofsikkim.com/2020/03/09/pak ... ation-aai/

In any case, PYG is cursed. The difficult terrain means nobody wants to fly there and make it easy for consumers who want to get closer to Sikkim than IXB.

Much smaller cities like TRZ, IXM, IXE and CNN have plenty of international flights simply because they are South Indian, even though they are far removed from the state capitals of MAA, BLR and TRV. Indeed, as I have mentioned, IXC and GOI despite being civil enclaves (part-military) get lots of love. (The ‘shameless Puri’ argument applies only to ATQ and not IXC, even though both are in Punjab.) How come only PNQ should suffer?

I am also reminded of GAU whose only international tenant is currently Drukair. SG cancelled flights to Dhaka and Nok Air cancelled flights to Bangkok DMK. As much as CCU is enjoying a Southeast Asian boom from 6E, GAU is completely neglected.

Why are these step motherly treatment to these airports anyways ? This reminds of my a neighbouring town to my base KNU whose Partial military air base is used as a civil airport and same for IXD and AGR ..Oh and GOP as well..Damn I guess in my state only LKO and VNS are two fully Functional Civil International airports others are just at the mercy of Air Force.

This PNQ plight has now ignited a fire in my avgeek heart to do more research about such cities which are at the mercy of Air Force but do deserve a fully functional Civil Airports with full liberty and freedom.

Hmm...I will research and list down all the
(IAAMOAF) = INDIAN AIRPORTS AT THE MERCY OF AIR FORCE...Its high time the Aviation authority gives all these towns and cities their right to a proper civil aerodrome ans hope it happens soon !

Hope you do make the list soon, would be of invaluable service to Indian civil aviation enthusiasts like myself.

After a profound research and analysis of the Indian Airports Here is My List of IAAMOAF ( INDIAN AIRPORTS AT MERCY OF AIR FORCE ) these airports,out of which some,are the Most famous ones in the country also have huge traffic but still have been denied the Democratic birth right of Free flow of Air traffic at their runways,Infrastructural constraints and overall stalled Potential due to 'em being governed by the Autocratic Air Force Regime.

PORT BLAIR*
PASIGHAT
GUWAHATI*
JORHAT
SILCHAR
TEZPUR
CHANDIGARH*
GOA**
BHUJ
JAMMU
SRINAGAR
LEH
PUNE**
BHATINDA
JALANDHAR
LUDHIANA
PATHANKOT
BIKANER
JAISALMER
JODHPUR*
AGRA*
ALLAHABAD
HINDON (GHAZIABAD)
GORAKHPUR
KANPUR

(**) URGENT NEED OF INDEPENDENT INTL AIRPORT

(*) Deserve to have Independent Domestic Airport

I hope the Indian Air Force either give these airports their rightful freedom to embrace widebodies and planes to far and wide or The Corrupt politicians get them cities an independent Airport !

#FreedomFromAirForce #WeWantFreedom #AirForceCantRuleUs #WeDeserveWideBodies #WeDeserveInternationalFlights #NoMoreAirForce

unnayan · Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:35 am

FligtReporter wrote:
pune wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:

Why are these step motherly treatment to these airports anyways ? This reminds of my a neighbouring town to my base KNU whose Partial military air base is used as a civil airport and same for IXD and AGR ..Oh and GOP as well..Damn I guess in my state only LKO and VNS are two fully Functional Civil International airports others are just at the mercy of Air Force.

This PNQ plight has now ignited a fire in my avgeek heart to do more research about such cities which are at the mercy of Air Force but do deserve a fully functional Civil Airports with full liberty and freedom.

Hmm...I will research and list down all the
(IAAMOAF) = INDIAN AIRPORTS AT THE MERCY OF AIR FORCE...Its high time the Aviation authority gives all these towns and cities their right to a proper civil aerodrome ans hope it happens soon !

Hope you do make the list soon, would be of invaluable service to Indian civil aviation enthusiasts like myself.

After a profound research and analysis of the Indian Airports Here is My List of IAAMOAF ( INDIAN AIRPORTS AT MERCY OF AIR FORCE ) these airports,out of which some,are the Most famous ones in the country also have huge traffic but still have been denied the Democratic birth right of Free flow of Air traffic at their runways,Infrastructural constraints and overall stalled Potential due to 'em being governed by the Autocratic Air Force Regime.

PORT BLAIR*
PASIGHAT
GUWAHATI*
JORHAT
SILCHAR
TEZPUR
CHANDIGARH*
GOA**
BHUJ
JAMMU
SRINAGAR
LEH
PUNE**
BHATINDA
JALANDHAR
LUDHIANA
PATHANKOT
BIKANER
JAISALMER
JODHPUR*
AGRA*
ALLAHABAD
HINDON (GHAZIABAD)
GORAKHPUR
KANPUR

(**) URGENT NEED OF INDEPENDENT INTL AIRPORT

(*) Deserve to have Independent Domestic Airport

I hope the Indian Air Force either give these airports their rightful freedom to embrace widebodies and planes to far and wide or The Corrupt politicians get them cities an independent Airport !

#FreedomFromAirForce #WeWantFreedom #AirForceCantRuleUs #WeDeserveWideBodies #WeDeserveInternationalFlights #NoMoreAirForce

You missed Dibrugarh

trinidadeG · Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:21 pm

Also missed Visakhapatnam.

Which is under the Navy. But then, so is Goa and Port Blair.

These airfields have been with the MoD for decades. Civil Aviation has boomed only post 2005, and that too only at some military airfields.

Some of the bigger ones like Pune, Goa and Vishakhpatnam already have alternative airports in the planning stages. Should've been ready yesterday, but then, this is India... The rest are too small to really justify the cost of a greenfield..

FligtReporter · Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:35 pm

unnayan wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
pune wrote:

Hope you do make the list soon, would be of invaluable service to Indian civil aviation enthusiasts like myself.

After a profound research and analysis of the Indian Airports Here is My List of IAAMOAF ( INDIAN AIRPORTS AT MERCY OF AIR FORCE ) these airports,out of which some,are the Most famous ones in the country also have huge traffic but still have been denied the Democratic birth right of Free flow of Air traffic at their runways,Infrastructural constraints and overall stalled Potential due to 'em being governed by the Autocratic Air Force Regime.

PORT BLAIR*
PASIGHAT
GUWAHATI*
JORHAT
SILCHAR
TEZPUR
CHANDIGARH*
GOA**
BHUJ
JAMMU
SRINAGAR
LEH
PUNE**
BHATINDA
JALANDHAR
LUDHIANA
PATHANKOT
BIKANER
JAISALMER
JODHPUR*
AGRA*
ALLAHABAD
HINDON (GHAZIABAD)
GORAKHPUR
KANPUR

(**) URGENT NEED OF INDEPENDENT INTL AIRPORT

(*) Deserve to have Independent Domestic Airport

I hope the Indian Air Force either give these airports their rightful freedom to embrace widebodies and planes to far and wide or The Corrupt politicians get them cities an independent Airport !

#FreedomFromAirForce #WeWantFreedom #AirForceCantRuleUs #WeDeserveWideBodies #WeDeserveInternationalFlights #NoMoreAirForce

You missed Dibrugarh

Thanks for adding it !!

FligtReporter · Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:38 pm

trinidadeG wrote:
Also missed Visakhapatnam.

Which is under the Navy. But then, so is Goa and Port Blair.

These airfields have been with the MoD for decades. Civil Aviation has boomed only post 2005, and that too only at some military airfields.

Some of the bigger ones like Pune, Goa and Vishakhpatnam already have alternative airports in the planning stages. Should've been ready yesterday, but then, this is India... The rest are too small to really justify the cost of a greenfield..

Yeah my fight is against Air Force but yeah Its same cor Navy that VTZ is also under an autocratic regime..Its time the citizens of these cities fight for their Airports to have equal opportunities like other airports and enjoy all the benefits of a democratic Independent Airport anywhere in the world !

#WeWantFreedom #PNQdeservesWideBodies #GOIdeservesJustice #PNQneedsIntlAirport

unnayan · Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:51 pm

Moving an air force station may not be as straight forward as it seems. There are associated infrastructures too such as schools, living quarters, permiter security, hangars etc...

dtw2hyd · Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:36 pm

FligtReporter wrote:
...
Yeah my fight is against Air Force but yeah Its same cor Navy that VTZ is also under an autocratic regime..Its time the citizens of these cities fight for their Airports to have equal opportunities like other airports and enjoy all the benefits of a democratic Independent Airport anywhere in the world !

VTZ will never get a new airport and VGA will never get an international service. Andhra Pradesh fails follow basic rules, you turn over the state if you want any services or funds from central government. They haven't learned their lesson, yet.

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