So, no world-class Vistara 789 service to those poor guys. What happened to any airline would do it, AI is not doing anything great and it is social responsibility speech?

So India will not bring back its own citizens home and expect Iran to provide medical services.

FligtReporter wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

It appears there are 250+ Indians with COVID-19 in Iran. When can we expect Vistara to pick them up? Or they have to settle for AI or Mahan.

I say gov should shut AI today itself and Then reoperate when everything is fine..Our brave Indians in Iran with Positive Chinese Wuhan Virus till then must stay safe and Stay indoors and enjoy their stay in Iran and keep praying to recover cause most likely they will..Or better Indian Gov should send in the food items there and a note reassuring them for return flight when They get Negative certificates ..Simple !

Isn’t the government supposed to help Indians in need as opposed to helping only those who are well. The correct approach is to fly them to India and give them treatment in a quarantined area. but maybe India has not developed scientifically and operationally enough to have this expertise/pull this off?

edealinfo wrote:

FligtReporter wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

It appears there are 250+ Indians with COVID-19 in Iran. When can we expect Vistara to pick them up? Or they have to settle for AI or Mahan.

I say gov should shut AI today itself and Then reoperate when everything is fine..Our brave Indians in Iran with Positive Chinese Wuhan Virus till then must stay safe and Stay indoors and enjoy their stay in Iran and keep praying to recover cause most likely they will..Or better Indian Gov should send in the food items there and a note reassuring them for return flight when They get Negative certificates ..Simple !

Isn’t the government supposed to help Indians in need as opposed to helping only those who are well. The correct approach is to fly them to India and give them treatment in a quarantined area. but maybe India has not developed scientifically and operationally enough to have this expertise/pull this off?

AIR INDIA ZINDABAD but the gov should wait for at least 30 days and let our Indians act as good ambassdors of India and cooperate with Iranian authorities and do as they are told and once they recover,India should get them back till then I think its better they take good rest because travelling is not safe in such critical condition and I read somewhere that its good for corona infected people to sleep more so they should be advised to sleep more and more.

Its for the saftey of everyone to let our brave Indian ambassdors fight their corona battle there and show the Iranian victims how to fight it..Go Indians You can do it !

trinidadeG wrote:

CaliguyNYC wrote:

trinidadeG wrote:

COVID19 is a great excuse for the government to shut down AI pending its sale. There is no point in endlessly pumping taxpayer money into the carrier while it awaits a buyer.
Once the airline has been sold, the buyer can resume operations.

Totally disagree with you. This is actually the time you do pump money in. Every country in the world will be pumping in money to help airlines. Airlines drive an economy and are part of national security. Post this crisis, many airlines will take time to resume service to India. Air India will actually be key in restoring connectivity of india to the world. It’s more important than ever. That said, it still should be sold. But bailouts have nothing to do with the fact that it is up for sale.

Sure, airlines do drive an economy, but Air India's share in the domestic market is in the minority now. So, the Government helping Air India does not amount to it "helping" the airline industry.

Even in the international 'connectivity' theatre, AI only connects Delhi to the rest of the world, with a smattering of routes from BOM and other cities. Most of the 'connectivity comes from foreign carriers to many more Indian cities. Its a small player even in that space.

I feel we are giving too much importance to the role that AI's North American/European operations play in the grand scheme of things.

What does the fact that it connects Delhi to the world not mean it connects India? Many people from all over india connect through Delhi on AI and AI still has decent international market share. what many here fail to grasp is having 20 flights to DOH doesn’t help business. Because DEL is so well connected, tourists, cargo etc all flow in. This is good for india as a whole. Myopically focusing on the fact it isn’t your city doesn’t change the economic reality. I’ll say it again, when the crisis calms down, many foreign airlines will be slow to restart india. AI will be key in adding immediate connectivity

FligtReporter wrote:

Well isnt that obvious ! Im certain that given the Chinese Wuhan Virus devastating the aviation industry world wide it is indeed very unlikely for any airline to announce any new routes

Then stop posting childish nonsense like

FligtReporter wrote:

I was just talkin about UA connectivity and Praising AI for theirs and wishing them start flights to DFW and IAH and as i look up at the radar BAYM.!! There is a UA 789 coming to Del from IAH

and ask a normal question!

Re: UA104D IAH - DEL from the always reliable jayunited

jayunited wrote:

Let me start off by saying this was not COVID-19 related.

UA104-16 was enroute SFO-DEL when the left engine PSROV illuminated, this condition prevents operations into icing conditions. with icing conditions being forecasted at SFO, LAX, DEN, ORD, IAD and EWR the only available hub was IAH. Hence the diversion into IAH for UA104-16.

As far as the return there are very strict rules in place covering theater acclimation. Those rules cover mandatory crew rest and how many hours a flight crew can fly once they become acclimated to new theater. As a result UA105-18 will operate over 15.5 hours late and fly DEL-EWR, change crews and customers will clear immigration at EWR, the flight will then continue as a domestic arrival EWR-SFO.

UA105-19 is canceled for crew rest rules as well, and an extra section will be flown on the March 20th. The flight crew of the extra section should be legal to fly DEL-SFO nonstop.

VTORD wrote:

FligtReporter wrote:

Well isnt that obvious ! Im certain that given the Chinese Wuhan Virus devastating the aviation industry world wide it is indeed very unlikely for any airline to announce any new routes

Then stop posting childish nonsense like

FligtReporter wrote:

I was just talkin about UA connectivity and Praising AI for theirs and wishing them start flights to DFW and IAH and as i look up at the radar BAYM.!! There is a UA 789 coming to Del from IAH

and ask a normal question!

Well I didnt specifically asked you, and if you thought it was nonsense you could have ignored it.Just like I cant take the crap from your posts and puttin you on my Ignore list Cuz Im allergic to nicompoop dullards

CaliguyNYC wrote:

trinidadeG wrote:

CaliguyNYC wrote:

Totally disagree with you. This is actually the time you do pump money in. Every country in the world will be pumping in money to help airlines. Airlines drive an economy and are part of national security. Post this crisis, many airlines will take time to resume service to India. Air India will actually be key in restoring connectivity of india to the world. It’s more important than ever. That said, it still should be sold. But bailouts have nothing to do with the fact that it is up for sale.

Sure, airlines do drive an economy, but Air India's share in the domestic market is in the minority now. So, the Government helping Air India does not amount to it "helping" the airline industry.

Even in the international 'connectivity' theatre, AI only connects Delhi to the rest of the world, with a smattering of routes from BOM and other cities. Most of the 'connectivity comes from foreign carriers to many more Indian cities. Its a small player even in that space.

I feel we are giving too much importance to the role that AI's North American/European operations play in the grand scheme of things.

What does the fact that it connects Delhi to the world not mean it connects India? Many people from all over india connect through Delhi on AI and AI still has decent international market share. what many here fail to grasp is having 20 flights to DOH doesn’t help business. Because DEL is so well connected, tourists, cargo etc all flow in. This is good for india as a whole. Myopically focusing on the fact it isn’t your city doesn’t change the economic reality. I’ll say it again, when the crisis calms down, many foreign airlines will be slow to restart india. AI will be key in adding immediate connectivity

True

CaliguyNYC wrote:

What does the fact that it connects Delhi to the world not mean it connects India? Many people from all over india connect through Delhi on AI and AI still has decent international market share. what many here fail to grasp is having 20 flights to DOH doesn’t help business. Because DEL is so well connected, tourists, cargo etc all flow in. This is good for india as a whole. Myopically focusing on the fact it isn’t your city doesn’t change the economic reality. I’ll say it again, when the crisis calms down, many foreign airlines will be slow to restart india. AI will be key in adding immediate connectivity

Can agree on that. AI fills up the big hole in Indian aviation i.e the long haul ops. No other Indian carrier is capable or competent to do that. Vistara got their WB, but it will take time for them to mature and stablize their ops for long haul, especially because covid-19 messed up their plans now.

However, AI's short-haul ops are useless and can be easily filled up by the pvt. airlines within a matter of few months, like they did of Jet's.
Indian govt. should keep AI long haul ops alive through privatisation or co-ownership and the short-haul ops be shutdown. This is a perfect time to do that with the excuse of the virus. Also, AI long-haul should get into partnership with some Indian LCC for feed.

FligtReporter wrote:

A UA 789 is enroute DEL from HOUSTON any idea anyone what is this all about ??

I was just talkin about UA connectivity and Praising AI for theirs and wishing them start flights to DFW and IAH and as i look up at the radar BAYM.!! There is a UA 789 coming to Del from IAH

FLIGHT INFO -:

Aircraft 78-9
Registration N29968
UAL104D
Origin IAH
Destination DEL
Time Taken 14 Hours

It was a diversion from March 16, 2020 flight. UA104 on that day went all the way upto Canadian Border from SFO and then mysteriously diverted to IAH instead of SFO. I had asked about it in another thread and someone responded that it might be because of some ETOPS issue causing the diversion and availability of spare aircraft/crew made them divert to IAH instead back to SFO.

fortunerunnner wrote:

FligtReporter wrote:

A UA 789 is enroute DEL from HOUSTON any idea anyone what is this all about ??

I was just talkin about UA connectivity and Praising AI for theirs and wishing them start flights to DFW and IAH and as i look up at the radar BAYM.!! There is a UA 789 coming to Del from IAH

FLIGHT INFO -:

Aircraft 78-9
Registration N29968
UAL104D
Origin IAH
Destination DEL
Time Taken 14 Hours

It was a diversion from March 16, 2020 flight. UA104 on that day went all the way upto Canadian Border from SFO and then mysteriously diverted to IAH instead of SFO. I had asked about it in another thread and someone responded that it might be because of some ETOPS issue causing the diversion and availability of spare aircraft/crew made them divert to IAH instead back to SFO.

Thanks a lot for the detailed info !

edealinfo wrote:

FligtReporter wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

It appears there are 250+ Indians with COVID-19 in Iran. When can we expect Vistara to pick them up? Or they have to settle for AI or Mahan.

I say gov should shut AI today itself and Then reoperate when everything is fine..Our brave Indians in Iran with Positive Chinese Wuhan Virus till then must stay safe and Stay indoors and enjoy their stay in Iran and keep praying to recover cause most likely they will..Or better Indian Gov should send in the food items there and a note reassuring them for return flight when They get Negative certificates ..Simple !

Isn’t the government supposed to help Indians in need as opposed to helping only those who are well. The correct approach is to fly them to India and give them treatment in a quarantined area. but maybe India has not developed scientifically and operationally enough to have this expertise/pull this off?

Perhaps if you change the channel on your TV from Disney or Baby TV to news sometimes, you might get illuminated on what the government is capable of, assuming you have dish TV coverage under the rocks where you live...

CaliguyNYC wrote:

trinidadeG wrote:

CaliguyNYC wrote:

Totally disagree with you. This is actually the time you do pump money in. Every country in the world will be pumping in money to help airlines. Airlines drive an economy and are part of national security. Post this crisis, many airlines will take time to resume service to India. Air India will actually be key in restoring connectivity of india to the world. It’s more important than ever. That said, it still should be sold. But bailouts have nothing to do with the fact that it is up for sale.

Sure, airlines do drive an economy, but Air India's share in the domestic market is in the minority now. So, the Government helping Air India does not amount to it "helping" the airline industry.

Even in the international 'connectivity' theatre, AI only connects Delhi to the rest of the world, with a smattering of routes from BOM and other cities. Most of the 'connectivity comes from foreign carriers to many more Indian cities. Its a small player even in that space.

I feel we are giving too much importance to the role that AI's North American/European operations play in the grand scheme of things.

What does the fact that it connects Delhi to the world not mean it connects India? Many people from all over india connect through Delhi on AI and AI still has decent international market share. what many here fail to grasp is having 20 flights to DOH doesn’t help business. Because DEL is so well connected, tourists, cargo etc all flow in. This is good for india as a whole. Myopically focusing on the fact it isn’t your city doesn’t change the economic reality. I’ll say it again, when the crisis calms down, many foreign airlines will be slow to restart india. AI will be key in adding immediate connectivity

Air India's international market share itself has dropped less than 20%. Feel free to call that "decent", if you wish. For me (and others), it means that 80% of passengers travelling to India - Four out of every Five persons - fly some other airline, and often, to some city other than Delhi. That 80% traffic constitutes 86 foreign airlines (plus the 4 indian private carriers) flying to 20-odd Indian international airports spread across India. Not just BOM, regardless of the spin you're trying to give my post.

I'll say it again, In My Opinion, in the grand scheme of "India's international connectivity", AI's Long haul international ops are not as important as many make it out to be. They're indeed unique, they do fulfil a purpose - as @avier says, they fill up a big hole - but come at a heavy price to the exchequer. If those Long hauls were to cease and not resume for a few months until after COVID19, "India's connectivity" will not suffer.

In other news, Vistara's first scheduled commercial flight on their Boeing 789, UK933 DEL-BOM and UK996 BOM-DEL takes off on Friday, 19th March.

According to Ajay Awtaney on Twitter, Vistara is running operations at the moment and they need to ensure that this aircraft completes 50 cycles to be ready for international flights by the time COVID19 recedes.

https://twitter.com/LiveFromALounge/sta ... 4482518022

The 50 domestic/proving/corona flights myth spun by Indian av bloggers was debunked by industry experts including a former exectuvie of Vistara. There is no such rule.

SpiceJet stock is going back to its 2014 near shutdown levels, and SG is very very unlikely to be able to survive this corona carnage. They barely had any cash left last quarter, despite recognizing fictious compensation from Boeing worth Rs 240 crore.
Survivng till april end is almost impossible for Spicejet.

Plus, the continued bankruptcy of Indian financial firms like DHFL and Yes Bank resulting from corporate governance issues would probably keep any kind of investors away from Spicejet which is known for unfairly meddling with the govt. Spicejet has many continued corporate governance issues. It's run like a family business for Ajay Singh


In some good news, Feb saw an 8% pax growth rate

https://dgca.gov.in/digigov-portal/?pag ... 202020.pdf

Going back, it was certainly stupid of them to choose to expand rapidly instead of building cash reserves when 9W collapsed. Now they are very well poised to be the next collapse

anshabhi wrote:

Going back, it was certainly stupid of them to choose to expand rapidly instead of building cash reserves when 9W collapsed. Now they are very well poised to be the next collapse

Q. Would Emirates bail them out?

A. If they do, that would be like Etihad helping out the politically connected (at that time) Jet Airway . And we know how that turned out after the Government changed.

unnayan wrote:

you might get illuminated on what the government is capable of

Oh I am fully well aware what the Government and courts are capable of


government; what relative Recently happened in Delhi


court system: see breaking news below:
“The National Company Law Tribunal (NCLT) on Wednesday allowed 90 days' extension for the corporate insolvency resolution process of Jet Airways.

Jet Airways' resolution professional had last week filed an application in NCLT seeking 90 days' extension for the insolvency process of the grounded airline after it failed to attract any bidder.”

GoAir fires expat pilots

https://www.businesstoday.in/sectors/av ... 98612.html

anshabhi wrote:

In some good news, Feb saw an 8% pax growth rate

Feb 2019 saw the aftermath of the 9W collapse. 8% growth rate when compared to that means nothing much.

Canadian plane maker De Havilland sues SpiceJet for Rs 320cr for failing to pay for aircraft order

Philippa King, spokesperson for De Havilland Canada said the company had filed a $42.9 million lawsuit for damages stemming from cancelled purchase agreements after SpiceJet failed to take delivery of 19 aircraft and defaulted on several payments.

After GoAir, now IndiGo has announced cost reduction measures for the steep drop in pax i.e paycut for most employees with the ones at the very top taking a 25% cut while, with others in the 15% range, like pilots etc.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livemi ... 69617.html

Haven't heard anything of Spicejet yet. Very curious to know their situation, as @anshabi mentioned, they are very low on cash reserves.
The govt. has an option now- to save the massive white elephant or their very good pal, Mr. Singh's airline.

Meanwhile, the number of flight cancellations for domestic have swelled up today nation wide.

^^ Yes noticed that today, I noticed that today I5 still have not cancelled as many flights as the likes of 6E, G8... any idea why?

Also nothing very significant... but today RWY 09R/27L was being used for arrivals for the very first time in BLR, since DEC 2019!
The first aircraft touchdown on the new runway(27L) was a Spicejet flight
SG-497 from Mumbai at around 0945am. RWY 27R was being used for departures.

Looks like United is not operating SFO-DEL in April:
https://hub.united.com/2020-03-17-unite ... 16655.html

sand26391 wrote:

^^ Yes noticed that today, I noticed that today I5 still have not cancelled as many flights as the likes of 6E, G8... any idea why?

Also nothing very significant... but today RWY 09R/27L was being used for arrivals for the very first time in BLR, since DEC 2019!
The first aircraft touchdown on the new runway(27L) was a Spicejet flight
SG-497 from Mumbai at around 0945am. RWY 27R was being used for departures.

Would you happen to have the load factors on KLM in the past few weeks ? Load factors on other international carriers like QR, SQ, AI to LHR etc.would also be appreciated. This would paint the impact of the corona virus and economic turmoil on the airlines in/out of BLR.

FligtReporter wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

It appears there are 250+ Indians with COVID-19 in Iran. When can we expect Vistara to pick them up? Or they have to settle for AI or Mahan.

I say gov should shut AI today itself and Then reoperate when everything is fine..Our brave Indians in Iran with Positive Chinese Wuhan Virus till then must stay safe and Stay indoors and enjoy their stay in Iran and keep praying to recover cause most likely they will..Or better Indian Gov should send in the food items there and a note reassuring them for return flight when They get Negative certificates ..Simple !

I HOPE that was sarcasm! Otherwise....Good lord man! So much sensitivity in one post! WOW!

Big news:
No scheduled international flights to land in India from March 22.
Rule in effect for about a week.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbctv ... 01.htm/amp

edealinfo wrote:

anshabhi wrote:

Going back, it was certainly stupid of them to choose to expand rapidly instead of building cash reserves when 9W collapsed. Now they are very well poised to be the next collapse

Q. Would Emirates bail them out?

A. If they do, that would be like Etihad helping out the politically connected (at that time) Jet Airway . And we know how that turned out after the Government changed.

If you recall Sanjiv Kapoor tried his best to get EK to invest in SG. Investing in an Indian airline means opening up books at home to Indian and other foreign authorities. Emirates Group would never risk revealing arm length transactions. So, that is a no. EY and QR are a-OK, EK is not.

sand26391 wrote:

^^ Yes noticed that today, I noticed that today I5 still have not cancelled as many flights as the likes of 6E, G8... any idea why?

Depends on the airline policy and SOP for op's, which for some could be to operate a flight with even 3pax on board, whereas some other airline would have cancelled/clubbed the flight.
Also maybe I5 doesn't operate to the scale of other airlines, so hard for them to club and rebook pax on their own flights. 6E with high frequency on most routes, can easily shift pax to their other flights and cancel some.

sabby wrote:

sand26391 wrote:

^^ Yes noticed that today, I noticed that today I5 still have not cancelled as many flights as the likes of 6E, G8... any idea why?

Also nothing very significant... but today RWY 09R/27L was being used for arrivals for the very first time in BLR, since DEC 2019!
The first aircraft touchdown on the new runway(27L) was a Spicejet flight
SG-497 from Mumbai at around 0945am. RWY 27R was being used for departures.

Would you happen to have the load factors on KLM in the past few weeks ? Load factors on other international carriers like QR, SQ, AI to LHR etc.would also be appreciated. This would paint the impact of the corona virus and economic turmoil on the airlines in/out of BLR.

Can only post end of any month. But Loads are less on most Intl carriers in general.

trinidadeG wrote:

Canadian plane maker De Havilland sues SpiceJet for Rs 320cr for failing to pay for aircraft order

Philippa King, spokesperson for De Havilland Canada said the company had filed a $42.9 million lawsuit for damages stemming from cancelled purchase agreements after SpiceJet failed to take delivery of 19 aircraft and defaulted on several payments.

Uh, oh. If De Havilland smart, they should try to get this out of Boeing's compensation to Spicejet for the MAX delay. Basically, they should get a court order to garnish the Boeing compensation.

This is a really bad sign of SpiceJet's finances.

Separately, the Dear Leader has taken strong actions to protect the country from the Coronavirus. A Dear Leader is indeed required for such a situation. Hats off for the tough actions and for a long term perspective of the situation.

avier wrote:

The govt. has an option now- to save the massive white elephant or their very good pal, Mr. Singh's airline.

What would your choice be? SpiceJet toes the Govt line anyway by supporting many of its pet projects like UDAN.

GoAir innovates in crisis – to protect PNR for a year

GoAir sent out a press release yesterday informing about a new program where the airline will protect a PNR for a year and let the passenger fly, by paying the fare difference.

The airline, like others, has seen a huge spike in calls to its call center to reschedule / cancel bookings or ask queries.
The airline expects the passenger to not turn up for the flight. It is perfectly fine to not tell the airline that you aren’t turning up for the flight.
While in normal cases, the PNR won’t be accessible anymore and the passenger will be termed a NO-SHOW, in this case the airline will protect the PNR for one year from the date of the original flight.

https://networkthoughts.com/2020/03/19/ ... or-a-year/

edealinfo wrote:

trinidadeG wrote:

Canadian plane maker De Havilland sues SpiceJet for Rs 320cr for failing to pay for aircraft order

Philippa King, spokesperson for De Havilland Canada said the company had filed a $42.9 million lawsuit for damages stemming from cancelled purchase agreements after SpiceJet failed to take delivery of 19 aircraft and defaulted on several payments.

Uh, oh. If De Havilland smart, they should try to get this out of Boeing's compensation to Spicejet for the MAX delay. Basically, they should get a court order to garnish the Boeing compensation.

This is a really bad sign of SpiceJet's finances.
.

I won't blame Boeing if a business chooses short term leverages for growth instead of building cash reserves.

Btw this is likely a big blow for the Dash 8 program as well. Spicejet was the largest order for them, of 50 90-seater Dash 8s.

I remember the pomp and show with which SG had launched the 90 seater Dash 8...

edealinfo wrote:

avier wrote:

The govt. has an option now- to save the massive white elephant or their very good pal, Mr. Singh's airline.

What would your choice be? SpiceJet toes the Govt line anyway by supporting many of its pet projects like UDAN.

Trueeeee. Some govt bailout for SG and others might be on the way:

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/india-p ... rt-2197205

SG, Go Air, Vistara (and may be TruJet) are vulnerable Indian carriers now. They need to conserve cash now to survive the bleak months ahead, which means cut costs, salaries, flights etc. Indigo is not out of trouble and has to do the same. Don't know much about AirAsia and it dubious connections to its parent, so don't care if it goes bankrupt. AI is the GoI's headache and was already in trouble and hamstrung in spending any money.

Because every one knows in the end if an Indian airline fails, it is the Indian tax payer which pays, either through a direct intervention or Indian banks booking the loans as non-performing. It is time for Government of India to step in and caution all Indian carriers to stop any new purchases of aircraft of Indian carriers (except as a replacement) except in the cases where they are not taking any bank loans. And if they continue to disregard, then direct all banks (including private banks) not to loan these carriers any more money. As we know with this Yes bank collapse, even private banks ultimately get some Indian government support.

As a reminder, please provide a link to your source to back up your posts when presenting news.

hohd wrote:

SG, Go Air, Vistara (and may be TruJet) are vulnerable Indian carriers now. They need to conserve cash now to survive the bleak months ahead, which means cut costs, salaries, flights etc. Indigo is not out of trouble and has to do the same. Don't know much about AirAsia and it dubious connections to its parent, so don't care if it goes bankrupt. AI is the GoI's headache and was already in trouble and hamstrung in spending any money.

Because every one knows in the end if an Indian airline fails, it is the Indian tax payer which pays, either through a direct intervention or Indian banks booking the loans as non-performing. It is time for Government of India to step in and caution all Indian carriers to stop any new purchases of aircraft of Indian carriers (except as a replacement) except in the cases where they are not taking any bank loans. And if they continue to disregard, then direct all banks (including private banks) not to loan these carriers any more money. As we know with this Yes bank collapse, even private banks ultimately get some Indian government support.

But wouldn't this setup, lead to more crony-capitalism and take us back to the days of "license-raj" where license/permits where needed for even petty things like increasing production numbers in factories ? Think about it, there would be a new way of corruption where the collusion would be done to allow the airline to get a "replacement-permit", even if their financial situation is questionable. Furthermore, it is possible that even the financially-sound airlines would not be given "replacement-permits" unless, the relevant palms are greased (right from bank officials to ministry officials). Also, it could lead to a case of government harassment of businesses where, depending on the political situation, one or the other airline is harassed by the govt which has the power to direct banks not to loan certain carriers any more money.

edealinfo wrote:

avier wrote:

The govt. has an option now- to save the massive white elephant or their very good pal, Mr. Singh's airline.

What would your choice be? SpiceJet toes the Govt line anyway by supporting many of its pet projects like UDAN.

I suppose the highest level of toeing the government line, for any airline, would be to order a fleet of NAL-Saras aircraft and use it for UDAN flights. Now that, would be one heck of an idea, because every government would love the good publicity for the Saras program & the UDAN program.

Sanjiv Kapoor has joined GoAir in an advisory role. He was earlier at Vistara, and even before that at SpiceJet.
https://m.economictimes.com/industry/tr ... 737087.cms

Also, GoAir will be suspending all ops on 22nd March,Sunday for "Janata Curfew" day.

IndiGo to cut 25% of domestic capacity.
On "Janata Curfew" day will operate only 60% of its schedule.
https://m.timesofindia.com/business/ind ... 738371.cms

abcgogo wrote:

hohd wrote:

SG, Go Air, Vistara (and may be TruJet) are vulnerable Indian carriers now. They need to conserve cash now to survive the bleak months ahead, which means cut costs, salaries, flights etc. Indigo is not out of trouble and has to do the same. Don't know much about AirAsia and it dubious connections to its parent, so don't care if it goes bankrupt. AI is the GoI's headache and was already in trouble and hamstrung in spending any money.

Because every one knows in the end if an Indian airline fails, it is the Indian tax payer which pays, either through a direct intervention or Indian banks booking the loans as non-performing. It is time for Government of India to step in and caution all Indian carriers to stop any new purchases of aircraft of Indian carriers (except as a replacement) except in the cases where they are not taking any bank loans. And if they continue to disregard, then direct all banks (including private banks) not to loan these carriers any more money. As we know with this Yes bank collapse, even private banks ultimately get some Indian government support.

But wouldn't this setup, lead to more crony-capitalism and take us back to the days of "license-raj" where license/permits where needed for even petty things like increasing production numbers in factories ? Think about it, there would be a new way of corruption where the collusion would be done to allow the airline to get a "replacement-permit", even if their financial situation is questionable. Furthermore, it is possible that even the financially-sound airlines would not be given "replacement-permits" unless, the relevant palms are greased (right from bank officials to ministry officials). Also, it could lead to a case of government harassment of businesses where, depending on the political situation, one or the other airline is harassed by the govt which has the power to direct banks not to loan certain carriers any more money.

There is always a danger in that and hopefully it wont come to that. But I am curious, how is Indigo and other airlines financing the purchases of new aircraft. They are not leasing all planes, do they ? I am only calling out airlines who are buying aircraft outright, not the ones who lease, because the leasing companies can always repossess the aircraft. Of course we have seen how lessors had trouble with Kingfisher and some what with Jet. But that risk falls on the lessors, at least the banks are not involved.

The airlines are free to buy aircraft with free cash flow at any time, no govt intervention there, but we don't want to have a situation where the airline collapses or is in danger of collapse and Indian government or Indians banks have to come to the rescue or take a haircut on the loans.

Divestment of Air India, BPCL to be postponed

NEW DELHI: The spread of Coronavirus, volatile market situations and dip in the global crude oil prices has forced the government to put its major divestment plans, including Air India and BPCL and Shipping Corporation of India, on the back seat.

https://www.newindianexpress.com/busine ... 19197.html

abcgogo wrote:

I suppose the highest level of toeing the government line, for any airline, would be to order a fleet of NAL-Saras aircraft and use it for UDAN flights. Now that, would be one heck of an idea, because every government would love the good publicity for the Saras program & the UDAN program.

Which would not be such a bad thing. Saras would open doors for tourism to many far away locations in hard to reach mountains.

hohd wrote:

abcgogo wrote:

hohd wrote:

SG, Go Air, Vistara (and may be TruJet) are vulnerable Indian carriers now. They need to conserve cash now to survive the bleak months ahead, which means cut costs, salaries, flights etc. Indigo is not out of trouble and has to do the same. Don't know much about AirAsia and it dubious connections to its parent, so don't care if it goes bankrupt. AI is the GoI's headache and was already in trouble and hamstrung in spending any money.

Because every one knows in the end if an Indian airline fails, it is the Indian tax payer which pays, either through a direct intervention or Indian banks booking the loans as non-performing. It is time for Government of India to step in and caution all Indian carriers to stop any new purchases of aircraft of Indian carriers (except as a replacement) except in the cases where they are not taking any bank loans. And if they continue to disregard, then direct all banks (including private banks) not to loan these carriers any more money. As we know with this Yes bank collapse, even private banks ultimately get some Indian government support.

But wouldn't this setup, lead to more crony-capitalism and take us back to the days of "license-raj" where license/permits where needed for even petty things like increasing production numbers in factories ? Think about it, there would be a new way of corruption where the collusion would be done to allow the airline to get a "replacement-permit", even if their financial situation is questionable. Furthermore, it is possible that even the financially-sound airlines would not be given "replacement-permits" unless, the relevant palms are greased (right from bank officials to ministry officials). Also, it could lead to a case of government harassment of businesses where, depending on the political situation, one or the other airline is harassed by the govt which has the power to direct banks not to loan certain carriers any more money.

There is always a danger in that and hopefully it wont come to that. But I am curious, how is Indigo and other airlines financing the purchases of new aircraft. They are not leasing all planes, do they ? I am only calling out airlines who are buying aircraft outright, not the ones who lease, because the leasing companies can always repossess the aircraft. Of course we have seen how lessors had trouble with Kingfisher and some what with Jet. But that risk falls on the lessors, at least the banks are not involved.

The airlines are free to buy aircraft with free cash flow at any time, no govt intervention there, but we don't want to have a situation where the airline collapses or is in danger of collapse and Indian government or Indians banks have to come to the rescue or take a haircut on the loans.

IndiGo till last quarter had cash reserves of nearly ₹10,000 crore.
Though they finance their aircraft purchases through short term loans, and later SLB them.

Spicejet tried to do the same. But they don't have that ₹10,000 crore cushion that IndiGo has. They don't have any cash left. Regulatory data shows Ajay Singh pledged 5% more of his SG stocks in last quarter (when it was around ₹100), probably to infuse funds into SG:
https://trendlyne.com/equity/share-hold ... cejet-ltd/

Will anyone take SG stocks as a collateral at their current price of ₹35?

hohd wrote:

There is always a danger in that and hopefully it wont come to that. But I am curious, how is Indigo and other airlines financing the purchases of new aircraft. They are not leasing all planes, do they ? I am only calling out airlines who are buying aircraft outright, not the ones who lease, because the leasing companies can always repossess the aircraft. Of course we have seen how lessors had trouble with Kingfisher and some what with Jet. But that risk falls on the lessors, at least the banks are not involved.

The airlines are free to buy aircraft with free cash flow at any time, no govt intervention there, but we don't want to have a situation where the airline collapses or is in danger of collapse and Indian government or Indians banks have to come to the rescue or take a haircut on the loans.

Yes, you make a good point. But, as is the case worldwide, the corrupt people will create a new "system within the system" in no time. The only way out of this situation, IMHO, would be greater transparency. If airlines are forced to release full-page advertisements containing their current status (financial details, current fleet, proposed acquisition/replacement, mode of acquisition (lease, loan, cash-purchase), etc.) in financial-papers, e-mails to shareholders, etc. every time they even consider acquiring/replacing aircraft, maybe that might help ? Over-regulation leads to increased corruption/crony-capitalism whereas Under-regulation/enforcement leads to the mess we are seeing today with lots of Indian banks having NPAs and airlines barely surviving. It's like the saying, "Stuck between the Devil and the Deep-Blue-Sea" unfortunately.

Air India crew to get hazmat suits .
Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... aign=cppst

abcgogo wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

avier wrote:

The govt. has an option now- to save the massive white elephant or their very good pal, Mr. Singh's airline.

What would your choice be? SpiceJet toes the Govt line anyway by supporting many of its pet projects like UDAN.

I suppose the highest level of toeing the government line, for any airline, would be to order a fleet of NAL-Saras aircraft and use it for UDAN flights. Now that, would be one heck of an idea, because every government would love the good publicity for the Saras program & the UDAN program.

I think the private sector would rather focus on deploying a proven efficient aircraft, rather than have its UDAN network at the mercy of the teething issues of a new design. Ajay Singh himself had entered into discussions with Quest Aircraft corp to buy a 100 of their Kodiak aircraft (remember Modi waving to Amdavadis from a float-plane? That one), with Nitin Gadkari even inviting the Manufacturer to build them in Nagpur.

If and when the Saras gets into production, I expect 9I being eventually arm-twisted to flying them.

So, has Vistara succeeded in deferring deliveries for its 787 aircraft #2,#3 and #4 which are are scheduled to be delivered in March, May and June/July, respectively?

I know the scheduled March delivery will not happen in March 2020 because not a single test flight has been completed on Vistara's #2 797 as yet.