hohd wrote:

I hope NMIA starts operating soon. Once the virus dies down, the demand for BOM will again pick up and airlines will again have trouble expanding. NMIA may be closer, and probably may be quicker to reach from Pune if the new connector is built. However according to most sources, the existing airport will continue to have most international flights, so Pune residents will still have to go to the existing BOM airport for international connections.

While the new airport is built, one question I ask of Pune travelers, there are several domestic flights to DEL and BLR, why not connect through these cities for travel to Europe or North America or Far East (Japan etc) instead of going to BOM. Is it less expensive or more convenient ? A one stop option via DEL, especially from the same terminal at DEL cannot be too onerous to travel.

I think it's mix of many things, one thing is mumbai is closer and also doesn't have pollution label that Delhi has . For that alone reason I try not to use Delhi as and when and use Mumbai as much as possible. I am also hoping that the Delhi public mover becomes a reality soon otherwise figuring out to travel from Metro to the Airport currently is a pain. I have seen staff at Mumbai metro far more helpful than at Delhi either that's due to culture or whatever but does put people off. If the people mover/air train does become a reality it would help lot of people within Delhi as well as people like me.

https://livefromalounge.boardingarea.co ... /#comments

On a side-note it would also help if lot of doubling of railways is done from Delhi towards Uttarakhand, Himachal etc. there is lot of scope of tourism still provided infrastructure is there. Currently that hampers lot of tourism both from within India as well as outside India. If fares from Pune to Delhi are cheap enough and there is good connectivity from Delhi to touristy places, I could see lot of things happening. But this would require both the civil aviation ministry, the railway ministry as well as the hospitality industry to be on the same page which they haven't been for a long time.

I do know that Railway ministry has been spending lot of its funds for doubling of routes from U.P. to North India but don't see that achieving a lot, what they should have used funds for the quadilateral project among others but that's probably for another forum altogether

fortunerunnner wrote:

hohd wrote:

I hope NMIA starts operating soon. Once the virus dies down, the demand for BOM will again pick up and airlines will again have trouble expanding. NMIA may be closer, and probably may be quicker to reach from Pune if the new connector is built. However according to most sources, the existing airport will continue to have most international flights, so Pune residents will still have to go to the existing BOM airport for international connections.

While the new airport is built, one question I ask of Pune travelers, there are several domestic flights to DEL and BLR, why not connect through these cities for travel to Europe or North America or Far East (Japan etc) instead of going to BOM. Is it less expensive or more convenient ? A one stop option via DEL, especially from the same terminal at DEL cannot be too onerous to travel.

BOM travel is must for folks from PNQ as not all destinations are available/conveniently priced via DEL. BLR works only for SE destinations as otherwise its out of the way and requires backtracking. In addition to it, PNQ-BLR is a domestic flight as very less number of international connections are available as through booking via BLR so baggage issue prevents people from doing this backtracking. They rather spend 3-4 hours on the road to get to BOM with all their luggage in the cab for Rs.1000 or thereabout using KK Travels who does door to door business from all of Pune. This option is way better, price wise as well as time wise.

Having said that, in recent times many people do make a choice to fly out from DEL for their international flights by taking AI/UK connections. My family has done that on several occasions mostly on AI as SFO-DEL-PNQ-DEL-SFO routing. With UA-UK codeshare agreement, now we have an option to fly with UA in addition to AI from SFO via DEL as one stop option to Pune.

I haven't used KK travels but have heard good things about them. I wish the forum had a PM function, would have asked you for more details etc.

CaliguyNYC wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

I wonder if the Government can carve Air India into a good AI and bad AI. The good AI can have all the lucrative and financially routes. They could be allowed to operate and finally sold while the bad could be allowed to let go permanently

I think it is a certainty. The privatizations I have worked on do exactly this. How much “bad” will go with AI when sold will depend how much the market can bear. But in the end, the GOI has to make AI attractive to a buyer no matter what that means. Just sell it already. Probably not what AI employees want to hear, but the gravy train needs to end

The problem is not the 'gravy train' but more of policy decisions and budgetary support not given timely to AI irrespective of whichever political party was in state. This is the same with telecom as with any other business that the Govt. is in. The problem is that we think that the private operators are better but as far as solving customer greivances are concerned they are as bad as any other. I have had loads of fruitless online and phone conversations with Indigo, Spicejet and when Jet Airways was, although with Jet Airways, my experience was a tad better. Overall customer experience and customer satisfaction seems to be at the bottom as far private LCC's are concerned. But that again should be a thread in itself some other day perhaps.

BawliBooch wrote:

Since we are on the topic of Air India disinvestment, I am willing to bet my Gun Kit that the Govt intends to continue being a player in Indian aviation after selling off Air India. The aim is not to exit the Airline business but to distribute Air India's assets to cronies. The model being used is the same that was once used in neighboring Sri Lanka - anyone remember the Mihin Lanka story? Like that! Their president is a good friend of your Modi-Shah!

Even if Air India Express is sold off in this lot (to SpiceJet), the Alliance Air AOC will still be in Govt hands. AFAIK, the ATR fleet, 4 A319's and 4 A320's along with 3 77W's will be held back under the Alliance Air AOC even after sale along with AI Engineering. This could be the base for a new state owned carrier, perhaps under the old Indian Airlines brand? The old Air India assets can be parceled out piecemeal to Dear leader's cronies. Europe/Far East/NA slots to Vistara, AIX to SpiceJet and so on.

I know Modi-Shah's SOP well. They have tried these sort of stunts before. Privatize profitable state assets to cronies and nationalize the losses. Google GSPCL.

So to all the privatization prophets on this forum - the Indian govt is not going to exit the Airline business. Air India will be sold off in pieces to cronies, but the govt will continue to be a player in Civil Aviation in a new avatar.

on the button. I know that when Jet was making money, Govt. pressurized Jet Airways to give free airline tickets to BJP workers during elections. And I used to meet at least one or two low-level functionaries who used to get these freebies. We are used to thinking that only AI did that sort of thing, I guess this happens irrespective of whatever airline it is. I am sure something similar must be happening n SJ and all other airlines as well. Talking to the workers, I would get to know that at least 5-6 workers were either in the same plane or following in a later flight.

I am sure people know of it but is hardly a topic in conversation.

avier wrote:

Air India crew to get hazmat suits .
Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti ... aign=cppst

Good. Irrespective of the AI debate we can all appreciate and be thankful for their service in operating these flights.

pune wrote:

I haven't used KK travels but have heard good things about them. I wish the forum had a PM function, would have asked you for more details etc.

What do you want to know?
https://www.kktravels.com/

trinidadeG wrote:

GoAir innovates in crisis – to protect PNR for a year

GoAir sent out a press release yesterday informing about a new program where the airline will protect a PNR for a year and let the passenger fly, by paying the fare difference.

The airline, like others, has seen a huge spike in calls to its call center to reschedule / cancel bookings or ask queries.
The airline expects the passenger to not turn up for the flight. It is perfectly fine to not tell the airline that you aren’t turning up for the flight.
While in normal cases, the PNR won’t be accessible anymore and the passenger will be termed a NO-SHOW, in this case the airline will protect the PNR for one year from the date of the original flight.

https://networkthoughts.com/2020/03/19/ ... or-a-year/

It is a smart move athough don't think many Indians would make plans to travel now for sure. The only way it makes sense if I know of something happening 6 months to a year from now, then I can take advantage of it. Right now, with conferences being re-scheduled along with other things it just doesn't make sense. I don't think that people can even think of making any holiday plans or leisure things till there is no clarity. The U.S. itself has given 6 months of time, India should have similar time-frames or maybe a bit more because we have a larger population and less resources than the U.S.

abcgogo wrote:

hohd wrote:

SG, Go Air, Vistara (and may be TruJet) are vulnerable Indian carriers now. They need to conserve cash now to survive the bleak months ahead, which means cut costs, salaries, flights etc. Indigo is not out of trouble and has to do the same. Don't know much about AirAsia and it dubious connections to its parent, so don't care if it goes bankrupt. AI is the GoI's headache and was already in trouble and hamstrung in spending any money.

Because every one knows in the end if an Indian airline fails, it is the Indian tax payer which pays, either through a direct intervention or Indian banks booking the loans as non-performing. It is time for Government of India to step in and caution all Indian carriers to stop any new purchases of aircraft of Indian carriers (except as a replacement) except in the cases where they are not taking any bank loans. And if they continue to disregard, then direct all banks (including private banks) not to loan these carriers any more money. As we know with this Yes bank collapse, even private banks ultimately get some Indian government support.

But wouldn't this setup, lead to more crony-capitalism and take us back to the days of "license-raj" where license/permits where needed for even petty things like increasing production numbers in factories ? Think about it, there would be a new way of corruption where the collusion would be done to allow the airline to get a "replacement-permit", even if their financial situation is questionable. Furthermore, it is possible that even the financially-sound airlines would not be given "replacement-permits" unless, the relevant palms are greased (right from bank officials to ministry officials). Also, it could lead to a case of government harassment of businesses where, depending on the political situation, one or the other airline is harassed by the govt which has the power to direct banks not to loan certain carriers any more money.

who is to say that this is not the situation today. I have always found the workings of our Civil Aviation Ministry and DGCA opaque at least to passengers. I am sure the same is the case with those airlines with whom they are not chummy with.

hohd wrote:

abcgogo wrote:

hohd wrote:

SG, Go Air, Vistara (and may be TruJet) are vulnerable Indian carriers now. They need to conserve cash now to survive the bleak months ahead, which means cut costs, salaries, flights etc. Indigo is not out of trouble and has to do the same. Don't know much about AirAsia and it dubious connections to its parent, so don't care if it goes bankrupt. AI is the GoI's headache and was already in trouble and hamstrung in spending any money.

Because every one knows in the end if an Indian airline fails, it is the Indian tax payer which pays, either through a direct intervention or Indian banks booking the loans as non-performing. It is time for Government of India to step in and caution all Indian carriers to stop any new purchases of aircraft of Indian carriers (except as a replacement) except in the cases where they are not taking any bank loans. And if they continue to disregard, then direct all banks (including private banks) not to loan these carriers any more money. As we know with this Yes bank collapse, even private banks ultimately get some Indian government support.

But wouldn't this setup, lead to more crony-capitalism and take us back to the days of "license-raj" where license/permits where needed for even petty things like increasing production numbers in factories ? Think about it, there would be a new way of corruption where the collusion would be done to allow the airline to get a "replacement-permit", even if their financial situation is questionable. Furthermore, it is possible that even the financially-sound airlines would not be given "replacement-permits" unless, the relevant palms are greased (right from bank officials to ministry officials). Also, it could lead to a case of government harassment of businesses where, depending on the political situation, one or the other airline is harassed by the govt which has the power to direct banks not to loan certain carriers any more money.

There is always a danger in that and hopefully it wont come to that. But I am curious, how is Indigo and other airlines financing the purchases of new aircraft. They are not leasing all planes, do they ? I am only calling out airlines who are buying aircraft outright, not the ones who lease, because the leasing companies can always repossess the aircraft. Of course we have seen how lessors had trouble with Kingfisher and some what with Jet. But that risk falls on the lessors, at least the banks are not involved.

The airlines are free to buy aircraft with free cash flow at any time, no govt intervention there, but we don't want to have a situation where the airline collapses or is in danger of collapse and Indian government or Indians banks have to come to the rescue or take a haircut on the loans.

Did you see sam chui's video about coronavirus impact on civil aviation . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGWYNNpyP58 . In this one of the speakers shared that people who leased aircraft would be more in pain. Now whether you agree with that asessment or not, at least there's another opinion.

abcgogo wrote:

hohd wrote:

There is always a danger in that and hopefully it wont come to that. But I am curious, how is Indigo and other airlines financing the purchases of new aircraft. They are not leasing all planes, do they ? I am only calling out airlines who are buying aircraft outright, not the ones who lease, because the leasing companies can always repossess the aircraft. Of course we have seen how lessors had trouble with Kingfisher and some what with Jet. But that risk falls on the lessors, at least the banks are not involved.

The airlines are free to buy aircraft with free cash flow at any time, no govt intervention there, but we don't want to have a situation where the airline collapses or is in danger of collapse and Indian government or Indians banks have to come to the rescue or take a haircut on the loans.

Yes, you make a good point. But, as is the case worldwide, the corrupt people will create a new "system within the system" in no time. The only way out of this situation, IMHO, would be greater transparency. If airlines are forced to release full-page advertisements containing their current status (financial details, current fleet, proposed acquisition/replacement, mode of acquisition (lease, loan, cash-purchase), etc.) in financial-papers, e-mails to shareholders, etc. every time they even consider acquiring/replacing aircraft, maybe that might help ? Over-regulation leads to increased corruption/crony-capitalism whereas Under-regulation/enforcement leads to the mess we are seeing today with lots of Indian banks having NPAs and airlines barely surviving. It's like the saying, "Stuck between the Devil and the Deep-Blue-Sea" unfortunately.

I would say even to the customers or about to be customers. That would ensure customers being in the loop. I am sure everybody on the forum and elsewhere has a Jet Airways horror story to share when it was collapsing and others were price-gouging the customers. If spicejet bows out, then it will be a monopoly-like situation where Indigo holds almost all the cards.

abcgogo wrote:

Yes, you make a good point. But, as is the case worldwide, the corrupt people will create a new "system within the system" in no time. The only way out of this situation, IMHO, would be greater transparency. If airlines are forced to release full-page advertisements containing their current status (financial details, current fleet, proposed acquisition/replacement, mode of acquisition (lease, loan, cash-purchase), etc.) in financial-papers, e-mails to shareholders, etc. every time they even consider acquiring/replacing aircraft, maybe that might help ? Over-regulation leads to increased corruption/crony-capitalism whereas Under-regulation/enforcement leads to the mess we are seeing today with lots of Indian banks having NPAs and airlines barely surviving. It's like the saying, "Stuck between the Devil and the Deep-Blue-Sea" unfortunately.

Ah yes, and that's where allowing states to compete with each other in attracting the right enterprise is essential also. Otherwise one end's up with the JRD Tata terminal at Chattrapati Shivaji Airport that has extremely high prices and is unable to meet the demand.

Clearly China, for all it's fallacies, with the Deng Xiao Ping's model of getting rich is glorious, lands with a Beijing Diaxing and Shanghai Pudong airports. They not only have a fairly tight foot-print but will happily scale when the time comes.

China's Covid cases have already flattened/bottom out, one month and people will forget this.

Aren't all incoming international flights banned as of right now? I can still see some (BA199, AI102, AI301, AI126 and more) which are in flight and are due to land well past the 1:30 am deadline. Is there a specific reason for this?

Also, does anyone know why Aegean Airlines operated a flight to Mumbai yesterday? Was it for repatriating Indians in Greece?

pune wrote:

fortunerunnner wrote:

hohd wrote:

I hope NMIA starts operating soon. Once the virus dies down, the demand for BOM will again pick up and airlines will again have trouble expanding. NMIA may be closer, and probably may be quicker to reach from Pune if the new connector is built. However according to most sources, the existing airport will continue to have most international flights, so Pune residents will still have to go to the existing BOM airport for international connections.

While the new airport is built, one question I ask of Pune travelers, there are several domestic flights to DEL and BLR, why not connect through these cities for travel to Europe or North America or Far East (Japan etc) instead of going to BOM. Is it less expensive or more convenient ? A one stop option via DEL, especially from the same terminal at DEL cannot be too onerous to travel.

BOM travel is must for folks from PNQ as not all destinations are available/conveniently priced via DEL. BLR works only for SE destinations as otherwise its out of the way and requires backtracking. In addition to it, PNQ-BLR is a domestic flight as very less number of international connections are available as through booking via BLR so baggage issue prevents people from doing this backtracking. They rather spend 3-4 hours on the road to get to BOM with all their luggage in the cab for Rs.1000 or thereabout using KK Travels who does door to door business from all of Pune. This option is way better, price wise as well as time wise.

Having said that, in recent times many people do make a choice to fly out from DEL for their international flights by taking AI/UK connections. My family has done that on several occasions mostly on AI as SFO-DEL-PNQ-DEL-SFO routing. With UA-UK codeshare agreement, now we have an option to fly with UA in addition to AI from SFO via DEL as one stop option to Pune.

I haven't used KK travels but have heard good things about them. I wish the forum had a PM function, would have asked you for more details etc.

KK Travels does door to door business to and from BOM and runs SUVs with maximum of 4 passengers per car. Their drivers are some of the safest and rarely or never exceed 80Kmph speed limit on the expressway. My family and I have used them several times as we have been living in US but originally from Pune for past 20 years. As you can imagine, yearly trips and sometimes more means I or my family have had to use them quiet a number of times. What I dont like about their business model is that sometimes they assign passengers from various parts of the city to a single cab meaning, you get to do Pune Darshan after flying for 24 hrs to get to India from US or similarly on the way from India where first hour or two of your journey is spent visiting various parts of Pune. Besides that drawback, they are a decent provider of door to door service and at least me or my family have never been left stranded so thats a plus as well.

fortunerunnner wrote:

pune wrote:

fortunerunnner wrote:

BOM travel is must for folks from PNQ as not all destinations are available/conveniently priced via DEL. BLR works only for SE destinations as otherwise its out of the way and requires backtracking. In addition to it, PNQ-BLR is a domestic flight as very less number of international connections are available as through booking via BLR so baggage issue prevents people from doing this backtracking. They rather spend 3-4 hours on the road to get to BOM with all their luggage in the cab for Rs.1000 or thereabout using KK Travels who does door to door business from all of Pune. This option is way better, price wise as well as time wise.

Having said that, in recent times many people do make a choice to fly out from DEL for their international flights by taking AI/UK connections. My family has done that on several occasions mostly on AI as SFO-DEL-PNQ-DEL-SFO routing. With UA-UK codeshare agreement, now we have an option to fly with UA in addition to AI from SFO via DEL as one stop option to Pune.

I haven't used KK travels but have heard good things about them. I wish the forum had a PM function, would have asked you for more details etc.

KK Travels does door to door business to and from BOM and runs SUVs with maximum of 4 passengers per car. Their drivers are some of the safest and rarely or never exceed 80Kmph speed limit on the expressway. My family and I have used them several times as we have been living in US but originally from Pune for past 20 years. As you can imagine, yearly trips and sometimes more means I or my family have had to use them quiet a number of times. What I dont like about their business model is that sometimes they assign passengers from various parts of the city to a single cab meaning, you get to do Pune Darshan after flying for 24 hrs to get to India from US or similarly on the way from India where first hour or two of your journey is spent visiting various parts of Pune. Besides that drawback, they are a decent provider of door to door service and at least me or my family have never been left stranded so thats a plus as well.

how much they cost per passenger compared to other cabs, more, less or equal ? I remember paying about INR 1k/- or therabouts to the uber/ola from Pune to Mumbai GVK or vice-versa if booked before.

I was more interested in their baggage service. IIRC, they have something of a day or 2-day before service as well, although dunno how good/well that works.

edealinfo wrote:

Recent (March 2020) deliveries which airlines in India have taken:

Indigo:
March 1: New A320NEO (VT-IJG)
March 8: Three (yes, 3!) new A320NEOs (VT-IJW, VT-IJX, and VT-IJY)
March 13: New A321NEO (VT-IUN)
March 18: New A321NEO (VT-IUV)

Vistara
March 1: New 787-9 (VT-TSD)
March 18: New A320NEO (VT-TNY)

Apart from providing for the source for this information (as repeatedly requested by Moderators) I would also appreciate if you could also let all of us here know how many older aircraft left the IndiGo fleet in the same period. Just to give context of the deliveries.

IndiGo ordered a large number of aircraft for the purpose of "long-term fleet renewal"l. Having Airbus constantly pumping in newer airframes into the fleet allows the airline to either use the influx to rapidly expand its operations to meet air-traffic-demand, OR (as will be the case now) rapidly replace older aircraft in times of slack.

GoAir has been doing the same thing. Of the total 79 Airbuses delivered to it since inception, it has phased out 23 A320ceos to date, gradually replacing them with A320neos fresh from the ovens at Toulouse, as per the AirFleets.net website.

Vistara also is likely to start phasing out its older A320ceo's/ B737s in the months to come. I suppose they might accelerate it because of COVID19, though.

Air India operated a charter flight from Delhi to Rome yesterday afternoon (Boeing 777-300ER instead of earlier planned 787) -- around 165 Italians traveled back to their country.
Return flight to Delhi that landed today morning had around 270 Indians

Sorry, I can't name my source for this.

All flights to DEL suspended from 600 23 March through to 31 March

https://twitter.com/vinamralongani/stat ... 59713?s=21

qf789 wrote:

All flights to DEL suspended from 600 23 March through to 31 March

https://twitter.com/vinamralongani/stat ... 59713?s=21

So, will Air India lose its LHR slots because of the coronavirus? Or, does the "use 80% of slot time allocated on route for season or lose the slot permanently starting form the next season" not apply? I though the ghost flights to LHR have not stopped because the rule has not been suspended (as yet).

trinidadeG wrote:

edealinfo wrote:

Recent (March 2020) deliveries which airlines in India have taken:

Indigo:
March 1: New A320NEO (VT-IJG)
March 8: Three (yes, 3!) new A320NEOs (VT-IJW, VT-IJX, and VT-IJY)
March 13: New A321NEO (VT-IUN)
March 18: New A321NEO (VT-IUV)

Vistara
March 1: New 787-9 (VT-TSD)
March 18: New A320NEO (VT-TNY)

Apart from providing for the source for this information (as repeatedly requested by Moderators) I would also appreciate if you could also let all of us here know how many older aircraft left the IndiGo fleet in the same period. Just to give context of the deliveries.

IndiGo ordered a large number of aircraft for the purpose of "long-term fleet renewal"l. Having Airbus constantly pumping in newer airframes into the fleet allows the airline to either use the influx to rapidly expand its operations to meet air-traffic-demand, OR (as will be the case now) rapidly replace older aircraft in times of slack.

GoAir has been doing the same thing. Of the total 79 Airbuses delivered to it since inception, it has phased out 23 A320ceos to date, gradually replacing them with A320neos fresh from the ovens at Toulouse, as per the AirFleets.net website.

Vistara also is likely to start phasing out its older A320ceo's/ B737s in the months to come. I suppose they might accelerate it because of COVID19, though.

1. SOURCES:

a) https://www.planespotters.net/
(just type in the plane's serial number, or search planes by airline)

b) https://www.skyscrapercity.com/
(navigate through the easy menu on the site, or type the airline's serial number in the search box)

c) http://airlinersindia.s4.bizhat.com/
(navigate through the easy menu on the site, or type the airline's serial number in the search box)

2. I do not have information on planes leaving a fleet and don't have time to research or track it. Sorry!

3. Vistara is stuck with the 737-800s for a few more years. Other than 2 of the 9 that were short term leases, the geniuses at Vistara took the aircraft at up to 4 years lease. These same genuises lost the opportunity to sub lease/off load the 737s from October 2019 onwards when incoming new A320s and the the MAX delivery crisis gave them a window of opportunity.

BOMFlyer wrote:

Also, does anyone know why Aegean Airlines operated a flight to Mumbai yesterday? Was it for repatriating Indians in Greece?

Aegean does not show any flight to BOM on Flightradar24. Are you sure of this?

qf789 wrote:

All flights to DEL suspended from 600 23 March through to 31 March

https://twitter.com/vinamralongani/stat ... 59713?s=21

Also Delhi and most of India enters lockdown from today

DEL airport and most of the country in lockdown. Similar for many other countries, their flights etc.

Regarding Emirates:
Emirates to Suspend All Passenger Operations From March 25

https://m.khaleejtimes.com/coronavirus- ... s-pay-cuts
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... emium-asia

LHR slot usage would be a non-issue in these scheme of things.

vadodara wrote:

abcgogo wrote:

Yes, you make a good point. But, as is the case worldwide, the corrupt people will create a new "system within the system" in no time. The only way out of this situation, IMHO, would be greater transparency. If airlines are forced to release full-page advertisements containing their current status (financial details, current fleet, proposed acquisition/replacement, mode of acquisition (lease, loan, cash-purchase), etc.) in financial-papers, e-mails to shareholders, etc. every time they even consider acquiring/replacing aircraft, maybe that might help ? Over-regulation leads to increased corruption/crony-capitalism whereas Under-regulation/enforcement leads to the mess we are seeing today with lots of Indian banks having NPAs and airlines barely surviving. It's like the saying, "Stuck between the Devil and the Deep-Blue-Sea" unfortunately.

Ah yes, and that's where allowing states to compete with each other in attracting the right enterprise is essential also. Otherwise one end's up with the JRD Tata terminal at Chattrapati Shivaji Airport that has extremely high prices and is unable to meet the demand.

Clearly China, for all it's fallacies, with the Deng Xiao Ping's model of getting rich is glorious, lands with a Beijing Diaxing and Shanghai Pudong airports. They not only have a fairly tight foot-print but will happily scale when the time comes.

China's Covid cases have already flattened/bottom out, one month and people will forget this.

That is because they worked on it on an unprecedanted scale. They made first a 100-bed, then a 200-bed and then even a 300-bed isolation hospitals in quick succession. All within 2-3 weeks together once they realized it they need to fix it. They did large scale testing and did lockdowns couple of months back which we are doing now. See this interview of the gentleman who is helping us with corona virus, an epidomologist. He is saying we would need to be in lockdown mode for at least a month if we want to be on top of things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrrsXCxs2xg

How we do that and how do make sure that we get veggies and whatever else we need is not known. Just like in Britian, people are now stocking for 2 months, should we be doing that, I dunno -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxn3QeKuV5c

There are more questions than answers at this point and the Govt. is not helping (at all)

qf789 wrote:

All flights to DEL suspended from 600 23 March through to 31 March

https://twitter.com/vinamralongani/stat ... 59713?s=21

Delhi Airport to remain operational for domestic flights: Government

Read more at:
http://m.timesofindia.com/articleshow/7 ... aign=cppst

Thank god DEL airport doesn't come under the jurisdiction of the useless Delhi govt. read Kejriwal. Decisions regarding it come under the central govt.

An airbus A321 LY-VEH AVION EXPRESS ex Thomas Cook flew to my base tonight from Vilnius..I believe my base is a Fuel stop dont knw if theres any other reason though !

FligtReporter wrote:

An airbus A321 LY-VEH AVION EXPRESS ex Thomas Cook flew to my base tonight from Vilnius..I believe my base is a Fuel stop dont knw if theres any other reason though !

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ly-veh

Isn't Lucknow a wierd choice for a fuel stop when DEL is empty and just 1 hour away?

There's something more going in here.

But then again does India have any business to do with Lithuania at all?

avier wrote:

qf789 wrote:

All flights to DEL suspended from 600 23 March through to 31 March

https://twitter.com/vinamralongani/stat ... 59713?s=21

Delhi Airport to remain operational for domestic flights: Government

Read more at:
http://m.timesofindia.com/articleshow/7 ... aign=cppst

Thank god DEL airport doesn't come under the jurisdiction of the useless Delhi govt. read Kejriwal. Decisions regarding it come under the central govt.

All airports come under Central Govt. That is why we have the useless DGCA. Those who were called many other names by a certain aircraft manufacturer. And whose employees rush to join Dubai but can't even fly an aircraft without hitting something. We know how good is DGCA, thank you. Mr. Puri has been making some grand plains but this we have seen often enough, let's see what actually happens.

anshabhi wrote:

FligtReporter wrote:

An airbus A321 LY-VEH AVION EXPRESS ex Thomas Cook flew to my base tonight from Vilnius..I believe my base is a Fuel stop dont knw if theres any other reason though !

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ly-veh

Isn't Lucknow a wierd choice for a fuel stop when DEL is empty and just 1 hour away?

There's something more going in here.

But then again does India have any business to do with Lithuania at all?

apart from it being close to the Schengen area dunno much but then who knows about GOI working. I doubt anybody here. We do know about the Swiss bank where supposedly lot of Indian black sheep have put their ill-gotten gains but other than that, nothing else clicks.

pune wrote:

avier wrote:

qf789 wrote:

All flights to DEL suspended from 600 23 March through to 31 March

https://twitter.com/vinamralongani/stat ... 59713?s=21

Delhi Airport to remain operational for domestic flights: Government

Read more at:
http://m.timesofindia.com/articleshow/74762073.cms? Ofutm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

Thank god DEL airport doesn't come under the jurisdiction of the useless Delhi govt. read Kejriwal. Decisions regarding it come under the central govt.

All airports come under Central Govt. That is why we have the useless DGCA. Those who were called many other names by a certain aircraft manufacturer. And whose employees rush to join Dubai but can't even fly an aircraft without hitting something. We know how good is DGCA, thank you. Mr. Puri has been making some grand plains but this we have seen often enough, let's see what actually happens.

Agree. But state govts could be far more useless in decision making regarding airports and their operations. No surprises there. Like imagine Mamata Banerjee taking all decisions regarding ops at CCU. Or Uddhav Thackeray regarding BOM. Would be nightmarish.

avier wrote:

pune wrote:

avier wrote:

Delhi Airport to remain operational for domestic flights: Government

Read more at:
http://m.timesofindia.com/articleshow/74762073.cms? Ofutm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

Thank god DEL airport doesn't come under the jurisdiction of the useless Delhi govt. read Kejriwal. Decisions regarding it come under the central govt.

All airports come under Central Govt. That is why we have the useless DGCA. Those who were called many other names by a certain aircraft manufacturer. And whose employees rush to join Dubai but can't even fly an aircraft without hitting something. We know how good is DGCA, thank you. Mr. Puri has been making some grand plains but this we have seen often enough, let's see what actually happens.

Agree. But state govts could be far more useless in decision making regarding airports and their operations. No surprises there. Like imagine Mamata Banerjee taking all decisions regarding ops at CCU. Or Uddhav Thackeray regarding BOM. Would be nightmarish.

What we need are people who know the fields rather than IAS officers. There was talk of having specialized IAS batches so people have expertise on topics rather than be generally knowledgable. This would have been a good move. It was supposed to be on lines like the IFS but as always it just became idle talk and put in dustbin or on shelf. Just like the New Education Policy (NEP) .

pune wrote:

What we need are people who know the fields rather than IAS officers. There was talk of having specialized IAS batches so people have expertise on topics rather than be generally knowledgable. This would have been a good move. It was supposed to be on lines like the IFS but as always it just became idle talk and put in dustbin or on shelf. Just like the New Education Policy (NEP) .

No, that is a bad idea IMHO. Bureaucrats should work in government offices, that's it.

Regarding PSUs (govt owned companies), of which Air-India is one, the govt should be a shareholder but should have zero control over it's operations. This is similar to how Kuwait-Investment-Authority (KIA) is a 6.8% shareholder of the famous automotive company Daimler-AG. Does KIA have any role to play ? No, Daimler is left all alone to do the right thing, while the KIA and other shareholders profit/loss from the steps taken by Daimler management.

It is due to the "hands-on" approach of the various governments in India (be it Union or State), that we see the big mess of non-performing entities. A "hands-off" approach would have ensured good things for all.
-> No more "first-priority" for PSUs, leading to fair competition in market rather than the crony-capitalism model we have now where a PSU has to be sabotaged just to allow a private entity to enter the field. We see this in aviation, where Air-India had "first-choice" over every international-route and hence corruption was used by Jet-Airways and Kingfisher to get those international routes. Had it instead been a fair bidding process, we might not have seen this mess. HAL is given defence aviation contracts by default, rather than an open bidding process which would allow private players to compete equally, thereby never giving them the chance to challenge HAL.
-> Indian-Airlines would have never merged with Air-India (& vice versa). Both would have worked on their losses rather than merge.
-> Unions and strike-culture would be curbed by a profit-oriented management. The "govt-job" entitlement culture too would not be tolerated because, just like in a private company, a hire-&-fire culture would ensure all are on their toes by performing as well as possible.

An independent Air-India-Limited (AIL; parent company of Air-India), in which government is merely a silent shareholder, can do the following for a good presence in Indian aviation.
-> Make Air-India as a premium airline for both domestic and international travels.
-> Start Indian-Airlines as a LCC (similar to Indigo) which flies both domestic and international.
-> Shut down Air-India-Express and Alliance-Air. Sell off the equipment and re-hire the employees under Air-India or Indian-Airlines.

This way, AIL wins either way because in case market prefers LCCs they can take IA or in case they prefer premium airlines, they can take AI.

abcgogo wrote:

pune wrote:

What we need are people who know the fields rather than IAS officers. There was talk of having specialized IAS batches so people have expertise on topics rather than be generally knowledgable. This would have been a good move. It was supposed to be on lines like the IFS but as always it just became idle talk and put in dustbin or on shelf. Just like the New Education Policy (NEP) .

No, that is a bad idea IMHO. Bureaucrats should work in government offices, that's it.

Regarding PSUs (govt owned companies), of which Air-India is one, the govt should be a shareholder but should have zero control over it's operations. This is similar to how Kuwait-Investment-Authority (KIA) is a 6.8% shareholder of the famous automotive company Daimler-AG. Does KIA have any role to play ? No, Daimler is left all alone to do the right thing, while the KIA and other shareholders profit/loss from the steps taken by Daimler management.

It is due to the "hands-on" approach of the various governments in India (be it Union or State), that we see the big mess of non-performing entities. A "hands-off" approach would have ensured good things for all.
-> No more "first-priority" for PSUs, leading to fair competition in market rather than the crony-capitalism model we have now where a PSU has to be sabotaged just to allow a private entity to enter the field. We see this in aviation, where Air-India had "first-choice" over every international-route and hence corruption was used by Jet-Airways and Kingfisher to get those international routes. Had it instead been a fair bidding process, we might not have seen this mess. HAL is given defence aviation contracts by default, rather than an open bidding process which would allow private players to compete equally, thereby never giving them the chance to challenge HAL.
-> Indian-Airlines would have never merged with Air-India (& vice versa). Both would have worked on their losses rather than merge.
-> Unions and strike-culture would be curbed by a profit-oriented management. The "govt-job" entitlement culture too would not be tolerated because, just like in a private company, a hire-&-fire culture would ensure all are on their toes by performing as well as possible.

An independent Air-India-Limited (AIL; parent company of Air-India), in which government is merely a silent shareholder, can do the following for a good presence in Indian aviation.
-> Make Air-India as a premium airline for both domestic and international travels.
-> Start Indian-Airlines as a LCC (similar to Indigo) which flies both domestic and international.
-> Shut down Air-India-Express and Alliance-Air. Sell off the equipment and re-hire the employees under Air-India or Indian-Airlines.

This way, AIL wins either way because in case market prefers LCCs they can take IA or in case they prefer premium airlines, they can take AI.

you misunderstood me, I wasn't talking at all about Air India, I was talking about people in civil aviation ministry and DGCA . These should have been professionals inducted.

As far as 'fair bidding is concerned' we have seen how this played out in telecom. The whole AGR (Adjusted Gross revenue) issue which was hatched/defined by this Govt. I dunno if you remember how BSNL was told it would get first chance and would not have to pay much for 3G, 4G licenses and then how the whole policy was changed. Even how the AGR definition has been made and exception made for the Jio family otherwise if you go by the definition, then the taxes from Jio would alone would have been more than whatever they have earned till date. The idea for AGR is 20% from all other businesses apart from telecom. This is why GAIL and others who are not telecom players have to pay so much. As far as unions are concerned, we would have contractual workers, which means knowledge would leak all the time.

As far as Unions are concerned, I have a slightly different take on this. See for e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O90h7dbmZeQ that itself will tell you what is happening. This is about when our FM called the SBI chairman various things and the bank 'a heartless bank' . If Unions were not there, then you will situation like in Boeing where the management gets away with murder and when exposed tries to do all sorts of things and blame others.

pune wrote:

you misunderstood me, I wasn't talking at all about Air India, I was talking about people in civil aviation ministry and DGCA . These should have been professionals inducted.

As far as 'fair bidding is concerned' we have seen how this played out in telecom. The whole AGR (Adjusted Gross revenue) issue which was hatched/defined by this Govt. I dunno if you remember how BSNL was told it would get first chance and would not have to pay much for 3G, 4G licenses and then how the whole policy was changed. Even how the AGR definition has been made and exception made for the Jio family otherwise if you go by the definition, then the taxes from Jio would alone would have been more than whatever they have earned till date. The idea for AGR is 20% from all other businesses apart from telecom. This is why GAIL and others who are not telecom players have to pay so much. As far as unions are concerned, we would have contractual workers, which means knowledge would leak all the time.

As far as Unions are concerned, I have a slightly different take on this. See for e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O90h7dbmZeQ that itself will tell you what is happening. This is about when our FM called the SBI chairman various things and the bank 'a heartless bank' . If Unions were not there, then you will situation like in Boeing where the management gets away with murder and when exposed tries to do all sorts of things and blame others.

Apologies for the misunderstanding. Yes, you are right. Relevant professionals are more desirable in the relevant government departments.

I do not know much about the telecom sector, so your explanation about how "fair bidding" was manipulated is eye-opening for me.

My opinion about Unions was/is coloured by the various anti-customer, militant measures they took in the past such as cancelling flights at last moment, insisting on petty issues, etc. But yes, as you have rightly pointed out, there are numerous situations were Unions are very helpful & even necessary. I just hope they take care of employees & company in a good way instead of sabotaging the company due to their greed/politics (same applies to management).

abcgogo wrote:

Apologies for the misunderstanding. Yes, you are right. Relevant professionals are more desirable in the relevant government departments.

I do not know much about the telecom sector, so your explanation about how "fair bidding" was manipulated is eye-opening for me.

My opinion about Unions was/is coloured by the various anti-customer, militant measures they took in the past such as cancelling flights at last moment, insisting on petty issues, etc. But yes, as you have rightly pointed out, there are numerous situations were Unions are very helpful & even necessary. I just hope they take care of employees & company in a good way instead of sabotaging the company due to their greed/politics (same applies to management).

What you shared there is not something unions do but something which is a policy decision of a management of an airline. Just like the decision to have fares and have it for a year which GoAir has come up with. Is that a management decision or a union decision ?

Any Union's mandate is to get the best deal for their members from the management. They may suggest some improvements to the management but it is the management's decision whether to go along with it. I had met couple of union leaders about a decade back who at that time were asking the vehicle manufacturers to spend more on R&D and especially electric vehicles. In fact, I am a shareholder in Cummins Engines and I had asked in the AGM about half a dozen years back what are you going to do about electric vehicles, they thought it would be a fad. Similar sentiments were echoed both by unions and customers to have more safety features which the auto industry lobbied back. If you search for 'auto industry india lobby for reduced safety features' you should get loads of results. Of course, they have used the term 'price rise' while in actuality if safety features become standardised then the price of those safety features will actually fall. This is about the auto industry and dealers looking after themselves and they don't care whether their customers die or not.

The above examples are just analogies for the point I am trying to make.

My point is Unions are there just to look our for their own/workers interests. For us, we need to have our own association. This is where the western world leads, especially the french. If we organize ourselves as customer associations, slowly but surely the airlines would have to be fair with its customers. This would require lot of understanding, awakening and being in solidarity with our fellow fliers.

An interesting video which talks about airlines in India (partly) see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoM6it_W3qg and see from 14:10 to 15:00 it will talk about the various issues outlining the aviation industry in India. This would be a global phenomena but here it talks about the Indian specifics, especially the debt bit which we have talked about before as well.

AirAsia CEO Cleared In Airbus Corruption Probe
https://simpleflying.com/airasia-ceo-cl ... ion-probe/

https://indianexpress.com/article/india ... t-6326875/

Neighbours ostracising, calling police on crew who went abroad, says Air India

anshabhi wrote:

FligtReporter wrote:

An airbus A321 LY-VEH AVION EXPRESS ex Thomas Cook flew to my base tonight from Vilnius..I believe my base is a Fuel stop dont knw if theres any other reason though !

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ly-veh

Isn't Lucknow a wierd choice for a fuel stop when DEL is empty and just 1 hour away?

There's something more going in here.

But then again does India have any business to do with Lithuania at all?

i followed the A321 LY-VEH and it seemed to he a fuel stop because within 30 minutes of its Stop at LKO it departed for RAYONG.

I do think it was a fuel stop and may be this plane went to myanmar to pick stranded lithuanians up..but Im not sure it may fly to far east to some other countries.

pune wrote:

anshabhi wrote:

FligtReporter wrote:

An airbus A321 LY-VEH AVION EXPRESS ex Thomas Cook flew to my base tonight from Vilnius..I believe my base is a Fuel stop dont knw if theres any other reason though !

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ly-veh

Isn't Lucknow a wierd choice for a fuel stop when DEL is empty and just 1 hour away?

There's something more going in here.

But then again does India have any business to do with Lithuania at all?

apart from it being close to the Schengen area dunno much but then who knows about GOI working. I doubt anybody here. We do know about the Swiss bank where supposedly lot of Indian black sheep have put their ill-gotten gains but other than that, nothing else clicks.

Just a few days ago we had a Bombardier global 6000 directly Flew in from LGW and a few other private jets from EU,now I dunno who were in these planes and Dont know if they chose to land at LKO cause of its Proximity to DEL and they thought the Chinese virus screeing is more stringent in DEL so in a way to avoid it but again not sure Only DGCA could answer that.

I wont be surprised if PNQ is busy getting Private jets now a days too given its proximity to BOM.

VTCIE wrote:

BOMFlyer wrote:

Also, does anyone know why Aegean Airlines operated a flight to Mumbai yesterday? Was it for repatriating Indians in Greece?

Aegean does not show any flight to BOM on Flightradar24. Are you sure of this?

Yes, it was A3 4996/4997 operated by SX-DND

BOMFlyer wrote:

VTCIE wrote:

BOMFlyer wrote:

Also, does anyone know why Aegean Airlines operated a flight to Mumbai yesterday? Was it for repatriating Indians in Greece?

Aegean does not show any flight to BOM on Flightradar24. Are you sure of this?

Yes, it was A3 4996/4997 operated by SX-DND

Indeed, SX-DND operated A34996 from ATH to BOM, and A34997 from BOM to DWC and then to ATH on the 21st. Maybe DWC was a refuelling stop, as the UAE is closed now. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... d#243e7e53

@avier and @abcgogo see this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10KFTdkjwn8 . The data given there is all based upon Indian Govt. given data. (the indian stats. shared I mean) . So when we have 77% contractual workers already, do we want to push it 90%+ . These are the people who are most affected by lockdowns such as these. Of course the Govt. doesn't want to share such kind of data because they wanna show that people having regular work are all lazy. Never mind the fact that all MP's and MLA's get pension for life even if they have won one election and it doesn't matter whether they attend the lower house or upper house or how many ask questions in the house. ADR or Association of Democratic Reform is a great place to see which MP's have been active or not but that I guess is probably best suited for another fora.

AVG PAX LOADS OF EU CARRIERS AT BLR FOR MARCH 2020 (Till 22/03)

AIR FRANCE
CDG-BLR= 38.5%
BLR-CDG= 62%

KLM
AMS-BLR= 56.2%
BLR-AMS= 80.3%

LUFTHANSA (Data not avbl for all days)
FRA-BLR= 54%
BLR-FRA= 72%

BRITISH AIRWAYS
LHR-BLR= 43%
BLR-LHR= 68%

With a lockdown on most major Indian cities/towns and complete closure of public transportation, including cabs, I wonder how airline/airport employees are to commute to work. I doubt most would have their own personal vehicle to drive to the airport. The flight crew would still get their pick-up/drops probably, but the rest of the employees would find it tricky to report to work.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thehin ... 7.ece/amp/

40% of India's fleet is now grounded..

A Network Thoughts analysis based on data obtained from FlightRadar24 – a flight-tracking website — shows that 40 percent of the country’s fleet is now grounded. The grounding is led by national carrier Air India which has two-thirds of its fleet grounded, over 80 aircraft. GoAir – the Mumbai-based Low Cost Carrier has 60 percent of its fleet grounded. Over 30 of its fleet of 54 aircraft were on ground. Vistara – the TATA-SIA joint venture has over 20 aircraft grounded out of its fleet of 41 planes.

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 61701.html

trinidadeG wrote:

40% of India's fleet is now grounded..

Still doesn't sound as bad as the ~95% of fleet grounding of EK group(Dubai), SQ group (Singapore), CX group (Hong Kong), and many such airlines around the world.

Govt must waive of airport parking charges for airlines during this period, or take the credit for next airline crash in India.

avier wrote:

With a lockdown on most major Indian cities/towns and complete closure of public transportation, including cabs, I wonder how airline/airport employees are to commute to work. I doubt most would have their own personal vehicle to drive to the airport. The flight crew would still get their pick-up/drops probably, but the rest of the employees would find it tricky to report to work.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thehin ... 7.ece/amp/

Ummmm, maybe not 4 wheelers but probably all airport workers can afford 2 wheelers in India

Plus sadly, a lot of lower tier employees are being sent on leaves.

Per Govt. Diktat:
So all scheduled passenger flights are banned effective midnight of 24th March, i.e 23:59 hrs on 24th.

https://twitter.com/moneycontrolcom/sta ... 69570?s=19

avier wrote:

Per Govt. Diktat:
So all scheduled passenger flights are banned effective midnight of 24th March, i.e 23:59 hrs on 24th.

https://twitter.com/moneycontrolcom/sta ... 69570?s=19

Good thing: 6E and SG stocks will bottom out now.

IndiGo stock has been fairly resilient in this market carnage. Today it was flat despite Nifty going down by upto 13%.

I got the reason why: only 2% 6E stocks are held by individuals. Rest it's all funds and promoters only.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... ri-q9JcNZt


Comparatively, SG is almost 38% individual held, with little institutional holding. It has been correspondingly sabotaged in this market wide carnage too.

avier wrote:

qf789 wrote:

All flights to DEL suspended from 600 23 March through to 31 March

https://twitter.com/vinamralongani/stat ... 59713?s=21

Delhi Airport to remain operational for domestic flights: Government

Read more at:
http://m.timesofindia.com/articleshow/7 ... aign=cppst

Thank god DEL airport doesn't come under the jurisdiction of the useless Delhi govt. read Kejriwal. Decisions regarding it come under the central govt.

So the Central Govt. now extended the flight ban to the whole country. Waiting for you to call out the Central Govt. useless now

anshabhi wrote:

avier wrote:

Per Govt. Diktat:
So all scheduled passenger flights are banned effective midnight of 24th March, i.e 23:59 hrs on 24th.

https://twitter.com/moneycontrolcom/sta ... 69570?s=19

Good thing: 6E and SG stocks will bottom out now.

IndiGo stock has been fairly resilient in this market carnage. Today it was flat despite Nifty going down by upto 13%.

I got the reason why: only 2% 6E stocks are held by individuals. Rest it's all funds and promoters only.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... ri-q9JcNZt

Comparatively, SG is almost 38% individual held, with little institutional holding. It has been correspondingly sabotaged in this market wide carnage too.

nice would have bought some indigo stock but don't think they will put up an offering now, or at least not anything for another 6 months or so at the very least. This is going to be here for a while and the recession which we are in will continue for quite some time. If you listen to experts from the medical profession we need a lockdown for about a month, how many people will go mad with nothing to do is another concern. And don't see any way out. Kids would go crazy for that amount of time cooked up in the house as well as adults. This is not going to be easy at all.