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Ziyulu
Posts: 860
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:35 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:24 pm

After 9/11, U.S. airlines reduced service by getting rid of in-flight meals. Do you think due to this coronavirus outbreak, airlines will reduce service again by getting rid of snacks, charging for drinks, increasing checked bag fees, etc?
 
asuflyer
Posts: 541
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:48 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:28 pm

El-Al fires 60 pilots that were in training.

https://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Ove ... ses-619394
 
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chepos
Posts: 7274
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:32 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
After 9/11, U.S. airlines reduced service by getting rid of in-flight meals. Do you think due to this coronavirus outbreak, airlines will reduce service again by getting rid of snacks, charging for drinks, increasing checked bag fees, etc?


Before we get to crazy with comparisons, this can get ugly but comparing this to 9/11 is a bit of an exaggeration. Let’s think about this, on 9/11 US airlines were grounded for a few days, we had an airport (DCA shut down for a few months) people were afraid to fly, etc, etc. 9/11 was a quick and extreme shock to the world, in an instant life as we know it changed (particularly in the airline industry).


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Fly the Flag!!!!
 
joeblow10
Posts: 385
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:41 pm

chepos wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
After 9/11, U.S. airlines reduced service by getting rid of in-flight meals. Do you think due to this coronavirus outbreak, airlines will reduce service again by getting rid of snacks, charging for drinks, increasing checked bag fees, etc?


Before we get to crazy with comparisons, this can get ugly but comparing this to 9/11 is a bit of an exaggeration. Let’s think about this, on 9/11 US airlines were grounded for a few days, we had an airport (DCA shut down for a few months) people were afraid to fly, etc, etc. 9/11 was a quick and extreme shock to the world, in an instant life as we know it changed (particularly in the airline industry).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


In fairness - we have no idea what the next few months to a year hold for the industry. Who knows how bad this thing could get, or whether people will be willing to travel and fly.

Not saying it’s 9/11 bad - but it certainly could result in an industry crisis. Not to mention the longer term potential fallout as folks realize the benefits of distance meetings
 
jeffrey0032j
Posts: 785
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:11 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:50 pm

Nobody believed me a month ago (or more than that) that this will bad.
 
emre787
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:59 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:02 pm

SQ789 wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
SQ789 wrote:
All Turkish air company has suspend all flights to Italy.

https://indiablooms.com/health-details/ ... virus.html


The news I've seen indicates Turkish Airlines have suspended some but not all flights to Italy. Your source isn't clear as to whether some or all flights to Italy are suspended. Are you able to provide an alternate source ?

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-28feb20/

Edit: Found out that Pegasus and SunExpress is still operating some flights to/from Italy.


Also as mentioned in the Turkish Aviation Thread, the Turkish Ministry of Health announced the cancellation of all flights between Turkey and Italy, South Korea and Iraq on top of China and Iran.

The service changes of TKs Italy flights have been made before the announcement, but loading it into the system took longer which created this misunderstanding.

TK787 wrote:
Well, just like that, effective immediately no flights between Korea, Italy, Iraq and Turkey on top of Iran and China.
https://twitter.com/drfahrettinkoca/sta ... 80/photo/1


emre787 wrote:
Thank you TK787 for the new thread :)

Already some big news incoming:

The Turkish Ministry of Health just announced that all flights between Turkey and Italy, South Korea and Iraq are being stopped from this night on...

Source in Turkish: https://www.aa.com.tr/tr/turkiye/bakan- ... du/1750224

Another source on Twitter says that all flights to Iran and China have also (again) been suspended:
https://twitter.com/HavArenaMedya/statu ... 76355?s=19 (Image)

Oh man, this really escalated quickly :shock:

Edit: TK787 was a little bit faster :bouncy:


Regarding SunExpress, can you please provide me with the flight number? Because SunExpress is divided into a turkish (XQ) and german (XG) side, and SunExpress Deutschland also operates flights from Germany to Italy, Spain etc., not only to Turkey
 
DELTA777
Posts: 673
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2000 6:34 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:06 pm

United has canceled UA19 EWR-MXP today and zeroed out availability over the next few days.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 7780
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:18 pm

DELTA777 wrote:
United has canceled UA19 EWR-MXP today and zeroed out availability over the next few days.


That's not going to be a brief pause, IMHO, nor the last service reduction to Italy.

Milan – A new U.S. government advisory on Sunday urged Americans not to travel to two Italian regions hardest hit by a new virus, raising the level of warning for the Lombard and Veneto regions to the highest level.

The advisory cited quarantines set up in 10 Lombard towns and one in Veneto, with a combined population of 50,000 people, as well as the “the level of community transmission of the virus.’’

It follows an earlier warning late Friday to avoid non-essential travel to all of Italy, where more than 1,100 cases were confirmed through Saturday along with 29 deaths.


https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/ ... 111387802/
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5677
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:20 pm

I wonder what will Emirates do with their MXP-JFK flight. Will they keep it?
 
panamair
Posts: 4290
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:25 pm

Delta is cancelling JFK-MXP starting Tuesday March 3 through the end of April. Last flight to MXP will be Monday March 2 and resumption is currently anticipated to be May 1.
 
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chepos
Posts: 7274
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:40 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
I wonder what will Emirates do with their MXP-JFK flight. Will they keep it?


Most probably continue flying it, albeit a most probably empty 380 back and forth but I doubt they can it.

Not sure AZ can afford to fly empty airplanes across the Atlantic, so we will see what they do with JFK-MXP.


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Fly the Flag!!!!
 
asuflyer
Posts: 541
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:48 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:06 pm

 
ZazuPIT
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:32 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:10 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
chepos wrote:
Ziyulu wrote:
After 9/11, U.S. airlines reduced service by getting rid of in-flight meals. Do you think due to this coronavirus outbreak, airlines will reduce service again by getting rid of snacks, charging for drinks, increasing checked bag fees, etc?


Before we get to crazy with comparisons, this can get ugly but comparing this to 9/11 is a bit of an exaggeration. Let’s think about this, on 9/11 US airlines were grounded for a few days, we had an airport (DCA shut down for a few months) people were afraid to fly, etc, etc. 9/11 was a quick and extreme shock to the world, in an instant life as we know it changed (particularly in the airline industry).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


In fairness - we have no idea what the next few months to a year hold for the industry. Who knows how bad this thing could get, or whether people will be willing to travel and fly.

Not saying it’s 9/11 bad - but it certainly could result in an industry crisis. Not to mention the longer term potential fallout as folks realize the benefits of distance meetings


News this weekend about new cases in the U.S., including one with no contact with others, could hit travel hard if it's indicative of the virus is spreading. My company is stopping all international flying, and is limiting domestic to just a few divisions where travel is essential. This will likely get messier.
 
alasizon
Posts: 2579
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:23 pm

Pi7472000 wrote:
Also, will U.S. airlines start wiping down tray tables after flights. I have had seen many disgusting tray tables after boarding that have not been cleaned from prior flights. They really need to improve their cleaning of planes between flights.


Here is part of the problem with that, for the coach tray tables there is currently not enough staff on any given flight to do that plus turn times do not allow for it (it takes about 20 minutes to do just 100 tray tables and nothing else). By cleaning each coach tray table after each flight, you end up with an operation that will quickly spiral out of control delay wise.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:00 pm

asuflyer wrote:

When you consider all the impacts, this is a big statement.

I also noted, from your link:
"United is also offering some pilots who fly the widebody aircraft used on trans-Pacific routes a month off at reduced pay after the airline cut some of its Asia flights, according to a memo sent Friday by the United pilots’ union. United has “worked with our union partners to offer pilots associated with those changes the opportunity to voluntarily adjust their near-term schedules"

Not a horrid thing, but not good. There is a group of pilots in limbo.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
babastud
Posts: 272
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:38 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:37 pm

jeffrey0032j wrote:
Nobody believed me a month ago (or more than that) that this will bad.



I'm right there with you, my comments where deleted.
 
1989worstyear
Posts: 887
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:53 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:03 pm

lightsaber wrote:
asuflyer wrote:

When you consider all the impacts, this is a big statement.

I also noted, from your link:
"United is also offering some pilots who fly the widebody aircraft used on trans-Pacific routes a month off at reduced pay after the airline cut some of its Asia flights, according to a memo sent Friday by the United pilots’ union. United has “worked with our union partners to offer pilots associated with those changes the opportunity to voluntarily adjust their near-term schedules"

Not a horrid thing, but not good. There is a group of pilots in limbo.

Lightsaber


This confirms early retirement of the pre-1988 types.
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
nwair8908
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:03 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:21 pm

asuflyer wrote:
El-Al fires 60 pilots that were in training.

https://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Ove ... ses-619394


Furthermore, LY may fire 1,000 employees, nearly 1/6 of it's workforce, estimates revenue losses due to coronavirus at $50-70 million:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/el-al-cou ... na-losses/
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4811
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:25 pm

alasizon wrote:
Pi7472000 wrote:
Also, will U.S. airlines start wiping down tray tables after flights. I have had seen many disgusting tray tables after boarding that have not been cleaned from prior flights. They really need to improve their cleaning of planes between flights.


Here is part of the problem with that, for the coach tray tables there is currently not enough staff on any given flight to do that plus turn times do not allow for it (it takes about 20 minutes to do just 100 tray tables and nothing else). By cleaning each coach tray table after each flight, you end up with an operation that will quickly spiral out of control delay wise.

Well they should have to problem increasing turn times at this point. And they probably will. Airlines don’t want to put planes into storage. They just will have the whole fleet fly less.
 
catiii
Posts: 3517
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:26 pm

1989worstyear wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
asuflyer wrote:

When you consider all the impacts, this is a big statement.

I also noted, from your link:
"United is also offering some pilots who fly the widebody aircraft used on trans-Pacific routes a month off at reduced pay after the airline cut some of its Asia flights, according to a memo sent Friday by the United pilots’ union. United has “worked with our union partners to offer pilots associated with those changes the opportunity to voluntarily adjust their near-term schedules"

Not a horrid thing, but not good. There is a group of pilots in limbo.

Lightsaber


This confirms early retirement of the pre-1988 types.


huh? what pre-1988 types?
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:29 pm

While I know no numbers have been released yet how much of a dip are we predicting for intl. pax from airports such as JFK/LAX/EWR/SFO?
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4811
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:55 pm

alasizon wrote:
Pi7472000 wrote:
Also, will U.S. airlines start wiping down tray tables after flights. I have had seen many disgusting tray tables after boarding that have not been cleaned from prior flights. They really need to improve their cleaning of planes between flights.


Here is part of the problem with that, for the coach tray tables there is currently not enough staff on any given flight to do that plus turn times do not allow for it (it takes about 20 minutes to do just 100 tray tables and nothing else). By cleaning each coach tray table after each flight, you end up with an operation that will quickly spiral out of control delay wise.

Well they should have to problem increasing turn times at this point. And they probably will. Airlines don’t want to put planes into storage. They just will have the whole fleet fly less.
 
fsxfan38
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:06 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:09 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
Waterbomber2
one month ago

The suggested mortality rate of 3% discussed earlier in the thread seems to be incorrect.
As of yesterday Jan 28th there were 106 confirmed deaths against 4769 confirm cases.
However, if we consider the fact that of those 106 deaths most may have been among those confirmed infections a week earlier on Jan 21th, when 440 cases were confirmed, the death rate may be as high as 25% and we'd be looking at Ebola levels.
That is perhaps excessive, but the death toll and number of infections are rising exponentially, with the death toll so far following the infection rate with a 10 day gap. There isn't enough data yet but better be safe now than sorry later.

Closing China off and containing it in other locations may be the drastic and necessary solution.
Ie everyone everywhere staying home for a month may be the quick pain solution with the smallest impact on the loss of life and economy, including airlines worldwide.


Time for a reality check.
A month ago I posted the above.

Official numbers have gone up 20-fold and is now affecting most countries in Europe, with major outbreaks in Italy, France, Germany, Spain, the US has been relatively spared but is now losing valuable time.

Airlines in Europe have started laying off thousands of staff, cutting routes to Italy with France to probably follow soon.
They have started to cut capacity and routes.

At this rate, the global fleet may be grounded pretty soon, causing the most devastating impact that could have been predicted.

In my opinion, the worst case scenario is unfolding.


I'm gonna be so pissed if I cant go to Maine in a month to see my friend. I'd honestly rather get coronavirus than cancel this trip
 
737max8
Posts: 598
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:13 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:11 pm

If you're WN, is this a good time to happen while the fleet is already shrunk? Or is a double whammy possibly with the MAX and Coronavirus.

At least they have a lot of cash and usually weather storms pretty well. But this could be worse than 9/11 some think.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
Flown on: 717 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 7M8 744 744ER 752 753 762 763 772 773ER 788 789 A220 A319/20/21 A332 A333 A339 A343 A346 A359 A388
 
1989worstyear
Posts: 887
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:53 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:27 pm

catiii wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
When you consider all the impacts, this is a big statement.

I also noted, from your link:
"United is also offering some pilots who fly the widebody aircraft used on trans-Pacific routes a month off at reduced pay after the airline cut some of its Asia flights, according to a memo sent Friday by the United pilots’ union. United has “worked with our union partners to offer pilots associated with those changes the opportunity to voluntarily adjust their near-term schedules"

Not a horrid thing, but not good. There is a group of pilots in limbo.

Lightsaber


This confirms early retirement of the pre-1988 types.


huh? what pre-1988 types?


UA's 757's and 767's, including the younger ex-HA ones they brought in.
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
LNCS0930
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:17 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:29 pm

737max8 wrote:
If you're WN, is this a good time to happen while the fleet is already shrunk? Or is a double whammy possibly with the MAX and Coronavirus.

At least they have a lot of cash and usually weather storms pretty well. But this could be worse than 9/11 some think.


It may last longer than 911...Lets say the vaccine does not come til Spring 2021. You figure industry does not see a good year again til probably 2023 with 2021 probably being the worst year. The difference is airlines might survive it better because they're better positioned today following mergers, being used to high fuel, having not served meals for ages, charging for baggage etc. I would be fairly confident that outside of maybe NK we would not see any other US carrier go under. As a matter of fact its possible you might even see the big 3 or 4 still post profits, albeit their smallest since like 2011-2012.
 
catiii
Posts: 3517
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:14 pm

1989worstyear wrote:
catiii wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:

This confirms early retirement of the pre-1988 types.


huh? what pre-1988 types?


UA's 757's and 767's, including the younger ex-HA ones they brought in.


it actually confirms nothing, but how does giving time off to UA 777 and 787 confirm retiring 757s and 767s?
 
catiii
Posts: 3517
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:17 pm

32andBelow wrote:
alasizon wrote:
Pi7472000 wrote:
Also, will U.S. airlines start wiping down tray tables after flights. I have had seen many disgusting tray tables after boarding that have not been cleaned from prior flights. They really need to improve their cleaning of planes between flights.


Here is part of the problem with that, for the coach tray tables there is currently not enough staff on any given flight to do that plus turn times do not allow for it (it takes about 20 minutes to do just 100 tray tables and nothing else). By cleaning each coach tray table after each flight, you end up with an operation that will quickly spiral out of control delay wise.

Well they should have to problem increasing turn times at this point. And they probably will. Airlines don’t want to put planes into storage. They just will have the whole fleet fly less.


Or, if MROs can handle it, use the time to update cabins or conduct maintenance.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 1926
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:44 pm

Polot wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
Polot wrote:
Well yes, out of all the carriers on the route they have the smallest presence in the NYC market (or Italian market compared to Alitalia). That by definition makes them the weakest in the market.


Yes and no. Putting the virus aside for a moment and looking at total flights with seasonal services included to Italy:

AA flies to FCO from PHL year round, and MXP from JFK and MIA year round. With seasonal service thrown in, AA flies to FCO from ORD, DFW (2 x daily for 6 weeks in peak summer), CLT, and JFK (the JFK route is supposed to restart much earlier this year in late March). AA also flies to VCE from PHL and ORD seasonally.

UA flies to FCO from EWR year round (not daily in deep winter), and seasonally from IAD and ORD. It flies to MXP from EWR year round. VCE is served from EWR seasonally, as is NAP and from this summer, PMO.

DL flies to FCO/MXP from JFK, ATL (and DTW-FCO seasonally), plus VCE from JFK/ATL seasonally. It code shares with AZ so it has a lot of reach inside Italy, but I'd argue AZ is the weakest link, more than ever now, with the coronavirus impacting service to Italy.

Is AA weak in NY? Not really. It is more of a niche and has not really focused on competing there but it does have a few key things going for it. It is #2 at LGA, shares in the biggest slice of the world's most profitable O&D route (JFK-LHR) with BA (total revs there are $1BN a year), and has assets like T8. 68-75 departures a day at JFK at the moment, and close to 180 at LGA. Not huge, no, but it is not a trivial player in the NY market at all and has a decent chunk of corporate traffic, though yes, it has lost ground to DL/UA.

You are confusing the term “weakest” with “trivial”. Weakest is a relative term, if AA is not as large as the other players in the market then they are by definition the weakest especially as nothing indicates DL or UA are struggling with their hubs. That doesn’t mean their presence in the market is trivial though.

It is not really incorrect to say AA is the weakest US3 in the NYC market (including EWR), and most likely the first of the three to drop or suspend a trunk route with heavy competition.


Well, DL and UA cancelled their MXP services as well, so you're argument is kind of pointless.
 
caleeiii
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 12:10 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:51 pm

 
joeblow10
Posts: 385
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:59 pm

caleeiii wrote:


I have to imagine they are seeing a marked slowdown in advance bookings - and it’s only going to get worse in the coming weeks
 
Clackers
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:19 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:13 pm

Who will cope better with the 9/11 style cataclysm? BA or VS?

Hopefully (as a VS fan), this will be a leveller and we won't have a monopoly anymore with the flag carrier.

Finally SRB can get a break!
 
tphuang
Posts: 5074
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:14 pm

caleeiii wrote:

Just a matter of time before they all have to do it. The domestic bookings must be really hurting.

Domestic cuts are coming next.
 
VonRichtofen
Posts: 4296
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2000 3:10 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:49 pm

If this does become another 9/11 type economic hit for airlines, at least the industry is in much better financial shape to weather a storm than it was on 9/11. Especially the North American carriers.
 
mga707
Posts: 309
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:52 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:00 am

catiii wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
When you consider all the impacts, this is a big statement.

I also noted, from your link:
"United is also offering some pilots who fly the widebody aircraft used on trans-Pacific routes a month off at reduced pay after the airline cut some of its Asia flights, according to a memo sent Friday by the United pilots’ union. United has “worked with our union partners to offer pilots associated with those changes the opportunity to voluntarily adjust their near-term schedules"

Not a horrid thing, but not good. There is a group of pilots in limbo.

Lightsaber


This confirms early retirement of the pre-1988 types.


huh? what pre-1988 types?


Why would the year 1988 be relevant at all?
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 7780
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:03 am

caleeiii wrote:


That's a really interesting move. It doesn't appear to be destination-limited. They must see forward bookings just collapsing and want to relieve some customer uncertainty to keep the cash coming in.

FORT WORTH, Texas — American Airlines announced today it will waive change fees up to 14 days prior to travel for customers who purchase travel between March 1 and March 16. This change offers customers the best fares with even more flexibility. The offer is available for any of American’s published fares. Additional updates on existing travel alerts can be found on aa.com/travelalerts.

Frequently asked questions
What are the effective travel dates for waived change fees?
Any ticket purchased from March 1 at 4:30 p.m. CST and March 16, 2020 at 11:59 p.m. CST will not incur change fees if changes are made 14 days prior to travel.

How far ahead can you purchase travel for?
This is available for any of American’s published fares.

What are the effective purchasing dates for waived change fees?
March 1 through March 16
 
User avatar
ER757
Posts: 3787
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:07 am

ZazuPIT wrote:
joeblow10 wrote:
chepos wrote:

Before we get to crazy with comparisons, this can get ugly but comparing this to 9/11 is a bit of an exaggeration. Let’s think about this, on 9/11 US airlines were grounded for a few days, we had an airport (DCA shut down for a few months) people were afraid to fly, etc, etc. 9/11 was a quick and extreme shock to the world, in an instant life as we know it changed (particularly in the airline industry).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


In fairness - we have no idea what the next few months to a year hold for the industry. Who knows how bad this thing could get, or whether people will be willing to travel and fly.

Not saying it’s 9/11 bad - but it certainly could result in an industry crisis. Not to mention the longer term potential fallout as folks realize the benefits of distance meetings


News this weekend about new cases in the U.S., including one with no contact with others, could hit travel hard if it's indicative of the virus is spreading. My company is stopping all international flying, and is limiting domestic to just a few divisions where travel is essential. This will likely get messier.

On Friday, my company suspended all business travel (US domestic as well as international) and postponed a management meeting and some training sessions. I think it's a gross over-reaction, but they are erring on the side of caution. I have some leisure travel in about 10 days (US domestic) and I have no plans to cancel or change
 
gwrudolph
Posts: 425
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:46 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:48 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
caleeiii wrote:


That's a really interesting move. It doesn't appear to be destination-limited. They must see forward bookings just collapsing and want to relieve some customer uncertainty to keep the cash coming in.

FORT WORTH, Texas — American Airlines announced today it will waive change fees up to 14 days prior to travel for customers who purchase travel between March 1 and March 16. This change offers customers the best fares with even more flexibility. The offer is available for any of American’s published fares. Additional updates on existing travel alerts can be found on aa.com/travelalerts.

Frequently asked questions
What are the effective travel dates for waived change fees?
Any ticket purchased from March 1 at 4:30 p.m. CST and March 16, 2020 at 11:59 p.m. CST will not incur change fees if changes are made 14 days prior to travel.

How far ahead can you purchase travel for?
This is available for any of American’s published fares.

What are the effective purchasing dates for waived change fees?
March 1 through March 16


This is a gimmick. American and JetBlue (and the others that will likely follow) ought to be ashamed of themselves. So during a small two week period, I should rush out and buy a ticket that if I need change due to the ongoing uncertainty (which is very likely), is not refundable, but will allow for changes or travel credits. Oh, and I would still need to make the changes 14 days out . . . Very one-sided as usual. Keep it! I will wait it out and/or use it as my opportunity to once and for all move my business to an airline with more reasonable policies like Southwest
 
LNCS0930
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:17 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:49 am

gwrudolph wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
caleeiii wrote:


That's a really interesting move. It doesn't appear to be destination-limited. They must see forward bookings just collapsing and want to relieve some customer uncertainty to keep the cash coming in.

FORT WORTH, Texas — American Airlines announced today it will waive change fees up to 14 days prior to travel for customers who purchase travel between March 1 and March 16. This change offers customers the best fares with even more flexibility. The offer is available for any of American’s published fares. Additional updates on existing travel alerts can be found on aa.com/travelalerts.

Frequently asked questions
What are the effective travel dates for waived change fees?
Any ticket purchased from March 1 at 4:30 p.m. CST and March 16, 2020 at 11:59 p.m. CST will not incur change fees if changes are made 14 days prior to travel.

How far ahead can you purchase travel for?
This is available for any of American’s published fares.

What are the effective purchasing dates for waived change fees?
March 1 through March 16


This is a gimmick. American and JetBlue (and the others that will likely follow) ought to be ashamed of themselves. So during a small two week period, I should rush out and buy a ticket that if I need change due to the ongoing uncertainty (which is very likely), is not refundable, but will allow for changes or travel credits. Oh, and I would still need to make the changes 14 days out . . . Very one-sided as usual. Keep it! I will wait it out and/or use it as my opportunity to once and for all move my business to an airline with more reasonable policies like Southwest


I guess they are seeing near team booking drops. We've seen several here state their companies told them no business travel. I think the fact this thing can incapacitate or at least keep even a young healthy person sick for 3-4 weeks where they cannot go spreading it to others is worrying this companies about losing their workforce.
 
joeblow10
Posts: 385
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:50 am

gwrudolph wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
caleeiii wrote:


That's a really interesting move. It doesn't appear to be destination-limited. They must see forward bookings just collapsing and want to relieve some customer uncertainty to keep the cash coming in.

FORT WORTH, Texas — American Airlines announced today it will waive change fees up to 14 days prior to travel for customers who purchase travel between March 1 and March 16. This change offers customers the best fares with even more flexibility. The offer is available for any of American’s published fares. Additional updates on existing travel alerts can be found on aa.com/travelalerts.

Frequently asked questions
What are the effective travel dates for waived change fees?
Any ticket purchased from March 1 at 4:30 p.m. CST and March 16, 2020 at 11:59 p.m. CST will not incur change fees if changes are made 14 days prior to travel.

How far ahead can you purchase travel for?
This is available for any of American’s published fares.

What are the effective purchasing dates for waived change fees?
March 1 through March 16


This is a gimmick. American and JetBlue (and the others that will likely follow) ought to be ashamed of themselves. So during a small two week period, I should rush out and buy a ticket that if I need change due to the ongoing uncertainty (which is very likely), is not refundable, but will allow for changes or travel credits. Oh, and I would still need to make the changes 14 days out . . . Very one-sided as usual. Keep it! I will wait it out and/or use it as my opportunity to once and for all move my business to an airline with more reasonable policies like Southwest


Please... I am quite sure that the 2 week period is only the initial window, so if by some miracle the virus crisis seems to lessen by mid-March, the airlines don’t have to extend it. If it continues, as it almost certainly will, the window for free changes will continue.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2681
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:59 am

United's EWR-MXP suspended until March 14: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... rapr-2020/
 
User avatar
spinotter
Posts: 781
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 1:37 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:03 am

BravoOne wrote:
tphuang wrote:
scbriml wrote:

Who is being told not to travel domestically and by whom?


You have probably already heard about Amazon telling its employees not to travel domestically. I think you will find this is happening across many companies in North America. Where if you have not booked, you are told not to book any trips until things settle down. If you have booked and must go, then you are likely to have to self quarantine for 2 weeks when you get back from your trip.

All the companies are tell their employees to be safe and conservative. Cancel every large events and any non-essential travel.


That is such a gross exaggeration.


Why do you say so? Every day that we hear about more cases in Italy and that Rhode Island had its first case, people decide to be more cautious. And a very smart decision it is too.
 
kondoo
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri May 27, 2016 4:34 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:05 am

This is a gimmick. American and JetBlue (and the others that will likely follow) ought to be ashamed of themselves. So during a small two week period, I should rush out and buy a ticket that if I need change due to the ongoing uncertainty (which is very likely), is not refundable, but will allow for changes or travel credits. Oh, and I would still need to make the changes 14 days out . . . Very one-sided as usual. Keep it! I will wait it out and/or use it as my opportunity to once and for all move my business to an airline with more reasonable policies like Southwest


Don't like it, don't buy it.

If they were NOT offering something people would be also complaining
 
User avatar
spinotter
Posts: 781
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 1:37 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:06 am

gwrudolph wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
caleeiii wrote:


That's a really interesting move. It doesn't appear to be destination-limited. They must see forward bookings just collapsing and want to relieve some customer uncertainty to keep the cash coming in.

FORT WORTH, Texas — American Airlines announced today it will waive change fees up to 14 days prior to travel for customers who purchase travel between March 1 and March 16. This change offers customers the best fares with even more flexibility. The offer is available for any of American’s published fares. Additional updates on existing travel alerts can be found on aa.com/travelalerts.

Frequently asked questions
What are the effective travel dates for waived change fees?
Any ticket purchased from March 1 at 4:30 p.m. CST and March 16, 2020 at 11:59 p.m. CST will not incur change fees if changes are made 14 days prior to travel.

How far ahead can you purchase travel for?
This is available for any of American’s published fares.

What are the effective purchasing dates for waived change fees?
March 1 through March 16


This is a gimmick. American and JetBlue (and the others that will likely follow) ought to be ashamed of themselves. So during a small two week period, I should rush out and buy a ticket that if I need change due to the ongoing uncertainty (which is very likely), is not refundable, but will allow for changes or travel credits. Oh, and I would still need to make the changes 14 days out . . . Very one-sided as usual. Keep it! I will wait it out and/or use it as my opportunity to once and for all move my business to an airline with more reasonable policies like Southwest


You certainly have a jaundiced view of the whole thing. I think the airlines are doing this because if they do not allow unrestricted cancelatios or changes, no one will be booking any flights whatsoever until the crisis is past.
 
Ziyulu
Posts: 860
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:35 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:07 am

I think after this, all the major airlines in the U.S. will be charging $35 for baggage.
 
mga707
Posts: 309
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:52 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:10 am

Ziyulu wrote:
I think after this, all the major airlines in the U.S. will be charging $35 for baggage.


Even the major US airline that currently charges $0 for baggage? Nope.
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 804
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:17 am

If ordinary ticket revenues collapse due to loss of demand, airlines will find all kinds of creative ways to avoid going bankrupt...
 
musman9853
Posts: 961
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 12:30 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:22 am

catiii wrote:
1989worstyear wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
When you consider all the impacts, this is a big statement.

I also noted, from your link:
"United is also offering some pilots who fly the widebody aircraft used on trans-Pacific routes a month off at reduced pay after the airline cut some of its Asia flights, according to a memo sent Friday by the United pilots’ union. United has “worked with our union partners to offer pilots associated with those changes the opportunity to voluntarily adjust their near-term schedules"

Not a horrid thing, but not good. There is a group of pilots in limbo.

Lightsaber


This confirms early retirement of the pre-1988 types.


huh? what pre-1988 types?


Don't worry about it. It's that guys schtick.
Welcome to the City Beautiful.
 
Curiousflyer
Posts: 583
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:19 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:27 am

Those travel restrictions are not very helpful, they might slow the virus down but they will not stop it. It also seems that the virus is already present in many areas, including the US, it just has not been detected yet, so this is coming too late.

Those measures are taken because they make people feel better and are easy to implement. But they would make more sense if they were coming along with serious (but costly) health-related measures:
- accelerated production of respirators to help people whose illness evolves into pneumonia
- accelerated production and stockpiling of other medical supplies that although not 100% effective, will help diseased people: masks, steroids, antibiotics, vitamins, pain relievers...
- guarantee of free healthcare for corona victims, if governments do not subsidize them, uninsured victims will delay care and put themselves and others further at risk.

Bankrupting airlines and telling people to wash their hands and stay home are not convincing measures.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 5133
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:31 am

737max8 wrote:
If you're WN, is this a good time to happen while the fleet is already shrunk? Or is a double whammy possibly with the MAX and Coronavirus.

At least they have a lot of cash and usually weather storms pretty well. But this could be worse than 9/11 some think.


There isn't much silver lining here, even for WN.

If this virus does ramp up in Europe, the US3 will be moving their widebody capacity to the domestic market, which is not good news for WN as those widebody flights are likely going to be sold at discounts and will likely be flying to some of WN's largest stations (MCO, LAS, Chicago, e.t.c)

Not to mention a potential slowdown in the domestic market....
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