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raylee67
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Re: How DL (and other U.S. carriers) may cut expenses/conserve cash

Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:25 am

Waterbomber2 wrote:

I followed the 2008/2009 crisis from closeby. I was in Ohio when just miles away, a 90-year shot herself when she knew that her home was being foreclosed.
My friends over there were worried about plummeting house values resulting in their homes being insufficient to be maintained as sole lien for their mortgage.
If this virus expands, I don't know if house values will be affected directly, but I know for a fact that people will earn less and lose purchase power and will have less room for repayments.
Italy has already issued a decree to allow households affected by the virus to stop loan repayments.


Good that you follow it closely. Not many in US has knowledge about finances. Obviously I can't disclose too much info, but let's say institutional investors sitting on piles of cash now are definitely looking, and are eager to buy anything of quality and can provide some yield that is not negative. As to why I would know, you can make any guess on what my job is.
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 359/51 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
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mcogator
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:56 am

theaviator380 wrote:
mcogator wrote:
My DL JFK-BOM flight had about 12 empty seats in D1, the rest of the plane looked rather full, judging by the crowd. I even got offered multiple meals in D1, as I assume some people canceled with short notice. This just means that the corporate travellers are canceling, while personal travelers like myself are still traveling.


Any insight on arrangements you might have noticed at BOM upon arrival? Are they screening all pax? I heard un-confirmed news that India have suspended visas for certain countries and ban on entering from certain countries (Italy, Iran)

Half of positive patients in India are Italian tourists....this is where I don't get it, tourists usually when they are in bunch it is highly likely they are not bag packers as such who are in India for number of months...sounds like mostly charter tourists who usually go for 2 weeks etc. It was well known fact that Italy had a proper outbreak and they couldn't contain it? So knowing this most of the countries should have banned Italy nationals to enter in their countries? Failure to do so results in further issues !! Taxi driver who drove some of them is also tested positive.

This is not for just India - Italy, many countries have taken it lightly from day 1 and should have been more pro active on this.

Just my 2 pence.

I didnt take a picture, but there were warning signs all over. All the pax arriving from Eastern Asia countries plus Iran were getting their temperature checked before they can exit to immigration. There was a long line of arriving pax roped off from the rest of us. Our flight just had a straight walkthrough to immigration, with no screening. I'm flying back from GOA-BOM tomorrow, and I'll see if there are any screening measures in T1.
“Traveling – it leaves you speechless, then turns you into a storyteller.” – Ibn Battuta
 
theaviator380
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:51 am

mcogator wrote:
theaviator380 wrote:
mcogator wrote:
My DL JFK-BOM flight had about 12 empty seats in D1, the rest of the plane looked rather full, judging by the crowd. I even got offered multiple meals in D1, as I assume some people canceled with short notice. This just means that the corporate travellers are canceling, while personal travelers like myself are still traveling.


Any insight on arrangements you might have noticed at BOM upon arrival? Are they screening all pax? I heard un-confirmed news that India have suspended visas for certain countries and ban on entering from certain countries (Italy, Iran)

Half of positive patients in India are Italian tourists....this is where I don't get it, tourists usually when they are in bunch it is highly likely they are not bag packers as such who are in India for number of months...sounds like mostly charter tourists who usually go for 2 weeks etc. It was well known fact that Italy had a proper outbreak and they couldn't contain it? So knowing this most of the countries should have banned Italy nationals to enter in their countries? Failure to do so results in further issues !! Taxi driver who drove some of them is also tested positive.

This is not for just India - Italy, many countries have taken it lightly from day 1 and should have been more pro active on this.

Just my 2 pence.

I didnt take a picture, but there were warning signs all over. All the pax arriving from Eastern Asia countries plus Iran were getting their temperature checked before they can exit to immigration. There was a long line of arriving pax roped off from the rest of us. Our flight just had a straight walkthrough to immigration, with no screening. I'm flying back from GOA-BOM tomorrow, and I'll see if there are any screening measures in T1.


Thanks mate...
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:59 am

dampfnudel wrote:
I’m a little surprised that some airlines are still flying into Italy at all, in particular Rome.

The infection rate problem is near Milan, not Rome.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:04 am

32andBelow wrote:
It’s cheaper just flying all the planes less. It doesn’t make sense to just park them unless they are going to be parked for more than a month or two. Planes like to fly. They need added maint just to sit.

From previous route cuts and downsizing I've seen over the years, it's not cheaper to keep them flying- much cheaper to park them and layoff surplus staff. The added maintenance costs is peanuts compared to continuously flying half empty aircraft.
 
tootallsd
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:43 am

Two items of interest in my email this early morning.

Jet Blue is extending the temporary policy on flight changes, now applies for bookings thru end of March 2020 for travel through end of September. Also discusses additional cleaning regimens on planes and in terminal, availability of sanitizing wipes onboard. I could not find anything on the JetBlue website.

And from American

Fee waiver now applies to purchases through end of March (extended by two weeks) for travel through end of January 2021.

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:46 am

Sales at JetBlue and AA must be absolutely awful
 
LNCS0930
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:06 am

eta unknown wrote:
dampfnudel wrote:
I’m a little surprised that some airlines are still flying into Italy at all, in particular Rome.

The infection rate problem is near Milan, not Rome.


Yeah. Seems most people do not do this I saw loads to FCO on all the carriers and they are pretty insanely low. That would be like being afraid to go Philadelphia right now because NYC 25 cases. The airlines/media though have not done a great job specifying where the cases are.
 
mcogator
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:42 am

All this worrying about flying and catching the virus is quite puzzling. What about all the airplane staff that has been flying daily? Anyone from the FAs, to the pilots, and the staff who clean and service the plane afterwards. Wouldn't they be getting infected in droves? The only one I have heard about is the KE FA who serviced LAX and TLV. You would think if pax were so susceptible to the coronavirus there would be 100s of infected FAs now. And then the immigration staff handling everyone's passport. Seems quite rubbish to me and overblown. The only people who should consider canceling their travel plans are the elderly and those with preexisting conditions like cancer and HIV.
“Traveling – it leaves you speechless, then turns you into a storyteller.” – Ibn Battuta
 
LNCS0930
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:52 am

mcogator wrote:
All this worrying about flying and catching the virus is quite puzzling. What about all the airplane staff that has been flying daily? Anyone from the FAs, to the pilots, and the staff who clean and service the plane afterwards. Wouldn't they be getting infected in droves? The only one I have heard about is the KE FA who serviced LAX and TLV. You would think if pax were so susceptible to the coronavirus there would be 100s of infected FAs now. And then the immigration staff handling everyone's passport. Seems quite rubbish to me and overblown. The only people who should consider canceling their travel plans are the elderly and those with preexisting conditions like cancer and HIV.


I was going to ask here yesterday if anyone heard of FAs/pilots calling in sick excessively to avoid having to go on trips? I was especially interested if DL has had any FAs quit because given they aren’t Union they don’t have many options at the moment other than report to work or leave
 
N757ST
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:56 am

LNCS0930 wrote:
mcogator wrote:
All this worrying about flying and catching the virus is quite puzzling. What about all the airplane staff that has been flying daily? Anyone from the FAs, to the pilots, and the staff who clean and service the plane afterwards. Wouldn't they be getting infected in droves? The only one I have heard about is the KE FA who serviced LAX and TLV. You would think if pax were so susceptible to the coronavirus there would be 100s of infected FAs now. And then the immigration staff handling everyone's passport. Seems quite rubbish to me and overblown. The only people who should consider canceling their travel plans are the elderly and those with preexisting conditions like cancer and HIV.


I was going to ask here yesterday if anyone heard of FAs/pilots calling in sick excessively to avoid having to go on trips? I was especially interested if DL has had any FAs quit because given they aren’t Union they don’t have many options at the moment other than report to work or leave



I haven’t heard of anyone calling in sick. While non union I’m sure delta flight attendants have sick time.
 
UAL777UK
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:25 pm

eta unknown wrote:
dampfnudel wrote:
I’m a little surprised that some airlines are still flying into Italy at all, in particular Rome.

The infection rate problem is near Milan, not Rome.


That maybe, but the FCO in the UK are now advising that if you go anywhere in Italy you basically have to self quarantine on your return. Why would anyone want to go and do that. As someone who has flights booked to Rome at the end of March I was a little surprised to receive a message from BA this morning saying.....Mr R#######, you looking forward to Rome!! Errr nope!
 
jayunited
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:00 pm

LNCS0930 wrote:
I was going to ask here yesterday if anyone heard of FAs/pilots calling in sick excessively to avoid having to go on trips? I was especially interested if DL has had any FAs quit because given they aren’t Union they don’t have many options at the moment other than report to work or leave


No I haven't heard of any FA's calling in sick here at UA or contracting COVID-19.

What is interesting though is on Flying Together before UA's announcement this week to trim the domestic schedule by 10% starting in April on the first article covering the coronavirus there were plenty of FA's demanding UA suspend flying first to China, then South Korea, all of Japan, TPE, SIN, and all of Italy. There were a lot of comments left by UA FA's wanting to know why UA was continuing to risk their lives and we needed to suspend service to all these and more destinations. Then things took a turn and Seattle became the US media's new focus of attention for the what the media termed huge spike in cases, which was then followed by UA announcing the 10% reduction in domestic flying because the 20% reduction in international flying had already been announced and includes China.

When Oscar made the announcement FA's were no longer afraid of COVID-19 they were then afraid of loosing their jobs to furloughs. Now they are not asking UA to suspend flying they are now saying Oscar are we overreacting? Why not give it another month, why not hold off on the reductions until May just to make sure this isn't a mistake. It is this type of fear that we all are up against one day our future bookings for March and April are strong because people still believed the US domestic market was safe. But after the news media reports from Seattle people, companies, began delay or out right canceling domestic travel plans.

Just looking at the comments from UA FA's on FT they were so afraid of coronavirus demanding UA suspend service to all those destinations an more because UA is risking their lives that was until UA announced voluntary leave of absence then the conversation becomes no wait you are jumping the gun, reductions start in April? Wait till May or June lets see how this virus plays out as the weather warms up. There reaction reminds me of the people this past weekend across the country who rushed out to Costco here in the US to buy bottle water, canned food, frozen food, toiletries, because they are so terrified of the coronavirus (again irresponsible media reports). However while they were in Costco they just could not bring themselves to pass up all those free samples Costco is known for. Hundreds if not thousands of people touched the carts, the handles in the store with their unwashed hand then those same people worried about getting coronavirus still decided to stop and eat all the free samples. There was an article where Costco stated they went through more free samples this pass weekend than they have in the history of the company.

It really is amazing how human beings claim they are terrified of coronavirus until a company threatens their job or they enter a grocery store and can't pass up all those free samples with their unwashed hands then its coronavirus be damn I'm not passing up free food.
Last edited by jayunited on Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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enilria
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:01 pm

TW870 wrote:
enilria wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
It’s cheaper just flying all the planes less. It doesn’t make sense to just park them unless they are going to be parked for more than a month or two. Planes like to fly. They need added maint just to sit.

I get that, but swapping a narrow on XXX-MCO to a widebody with no bookings coming in to keep the planes flying will lose far more money.


I agree that it is unlikely that they are going to build a bunch of domestic turns onto widebody rotations. My guess is they will just keep a bunch of hot spares, which is exactly what they are doing now. According to the widebody thread, I think they only scheduled 116 out of 150-some widebodies last week. They can just keep going down, having all the airplanes do longer sits at hubs between trips. The one plus is there will be very few tech-related or crew-related cancellations. I don't think you'll only see actual mothballing out in the desert unless we go into the fall with no prophylaxis, no vaccine on the horizon, and a large outbreak - a worst-case type scenario that we all hope doesn't happen.

When I said "park" I meant "not schedule the plane/crew". Of course there is no reason to mothball it unless it is long term.
 
CobaltScar
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:01 pm

mcogator wrote:
All this worrying about flying and catching the virus is quite puzzling. What about all the airplane staff that has been flying daily? Anyone from the FAs, to the pilots, and the staff who clean and service the plane afterwards. Wouldn't they be getting infected in droves? The only one I have heard about is the KE FA who serviced LAX and TLV. You would think if pax were so susceptible to the coronavirus there would be 100s of infected FAs now. And then the immigration staff handling everyone's passport. Seems quite rubbish to me and overblown. The only people who should consider canceling their travel plans are the elderly and those with preexisting conditions like cancer and HIV.



I'm sure there are already 100s of FAs and Pilots who have it, just most have no symptoms or mild enough symptoms to ignore it. Almost all FAs have some sort of limited amount of times per year they can call out sick before they are fired, so many will fly if symptoms are mild. People don't burn their sick points on common cold like situations.

Now at some airlines, like B6 and WN those same FAs are also the ones cleaning the planes in between turns and then serving you your drinks.

Best advice must be if you are old or have a weak system, try to isolate yourself and ride this out. This virus has to be very widespread by now.
 
flyjay123
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:22 pm

Two BA baggage handlers are being reported as getting Cornavirus!
 
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qf789
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:24 pm

flyjay123 wrote:
Two BA baggage handlers are being reported as getting Cornavirus!


Source???
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flyjay123
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:30 pm

BBC news and Independent ... Public health England confirmed. sorry I don't know how to add link.
Last edited by flyjay123 on Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:32 pm

LNCS0930 wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
dampfnudel wrote:
I’m a little surprised that some airlines are still flying into Italy at all, in particular Rome.

The infection rate problem is near Milan, not Rome.


Yeah. Seems most people do not do this I saw loads to FCO on all the carriers and they are pretty insanely low. That would be like being afraid to go Philadelphia right now because NYC 25 cases. The airlines/media though have not done a great job specifying where the cases are.


I don't know what sources you're looking at but the New York Times has been very explicit with the first Italian cases: Lombardy and Veneto. This just illustrates the problem which many here have discounted - the idea that this wouldn't impact aviation broadly is just ridiculous. Say Milan and Americans won't go to Italy. Say Italy (3800 cases), France (400 cases) and Germany (500 cases) and many Americans won't go to Europe. Say deaths in Seattle, Bay Area, Los Angeles, Chicago and New York and lots of Americans will just stay home. See cuts to domestic networks by UA and B6. Wait until we start seeing U.S. load factors, TRASM, and cruise ship boardings with earnings reports coming April ~15th.
Last edited by MIflyer12 on Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Scotron12
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:35 pm

Was providing link to report on 2 BA baggage handlers
 
716131
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:36 pm

SQ is suspending MXP till end of May due to Travel restrictions

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/ ... ing-travel
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
factsonly
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:19 pm

Asiana cancels its SEL-Europe network until April 24, only SEL-FRA remains 5x weekly:

Cancelled are:
- SEL-LHR
- SEL-CDG
- SEL- IST
- SEL-FCO
- SEL-BCN
- SEL-LIS
- SEL-VCE

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... eductions/
 
mcogator
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:55 pm

“Traveling – it leaves you speechless, then turns you into a storyteller.” – Ibn Battuta
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:03 pm

One of the popes several years ago criticized 'airport bishops'. Favorite world treasures suffer from over-tourism. Cruise ships (most involve an air flight) are easily implicated with the spread of disease and over-tourism, a lot of business travel is simply not needed. Indirectly but still related to aviation disease resistance to antibiotics is a serious world health problem. CO2 is obviously connected to the aviation industry. Corona virus ( and the next one and the next one) has shown who and what was naked when the tide ran out.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
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qf789
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:28 pm

mcogator wrote:


They are also considering grounding the whole A388 fleet as well

https://twitter.com/WandrMe/status/1235 ... 57506?s=20
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qf789
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:36 pm

ANA is suspending HND-PEK/SHA/CAN/HKG/GMP

Also suspending NRT-BOM and NRT-MAA flights due to visa invalidation in India. NRT-DEL will see frequency reduced

https://twitter.com/tak_goto43/status/1 ... 84224?s=20
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chonetsao
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:36 pm

Well, before the virus, all airlines are adding seats to its planes to take advantage of the growth and they see only upwards growth and never retreat. So all major airlines wasted millions to add 6-12 seats per single aisle plane, which resulted in 4%-10% capacity rise as well as customer complaints.

Now, with the capacity cut cross the board and weak demand for several months if not years to come, will airlines now concentrate on service (i.e. free food or drinks) and hardware (i.e. better legrooms) to woo customer to fly with them?

Among them, I think AA's decision for Oasis is one example. Now the B738 will add 12 seats and take away AVOD PTV, how AA will compete with Delta (which is ADDING AVOD PTV in its fleet) in a weak demand environment? If AA did not decide to go with Oasis project, it could have saved at least $400 millions (suppose if each modification only cost $2 million, I think the cost is more in reality but I have no way to check) in cash reserve and expenditures, and less capacity on routes planning, also would have preserved a much better on board products. In my personal opinion, Never-loose-money-again Dougie Parker is making a fool of himself in this Oasis project. The irony is, should AA decide to match DL's onboard product again, it needs to invest even more money to revert the Oasis. If that happens, that would be like $1 billion for a MBA lesson on how not to change anything if it ain't broken.
 
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qf789
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:42 pm

GE Aviation is expecting up to a $300 million hit for Q1 2020

https://www.flightglobal.com/engines/ge ... 14.article
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qf789
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:45 pm

CAN monthly data for February out

Total passengers dropped 83.57% while domestic fell 84.2%, international 81.29% and Hong Kong/Taiwan fell 90.5%

Aircraft movements fell 65.64%

https://twitter.com/FATIIIAviation/stat ... 29153?s=20
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xwb777
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Lufthansa is considering to ground entire A380 fleet

Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:48 pm

Lufthansa, like other carriers, is experiencing huge fall in travel demand globally. The airline is considering to ground its entire A380 fleet temporarily to cut costs. This also comes as the airline has announced that it will be cutting capacity by 50% in the coming weeks due to COVID-19.

Link: https://simpleflying.com/breaking-lufth ... 380-fleet/
 
seansasLCY
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Re: Lufthansa is considering to ground entire A380 fleet

Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:54 pm

Lufthansa’s press release is here: https://newsroom.lufthansagroup.com/Eng ... f9cb53a1e2

While I don’t like to see such a reduction, it is good that Lufthansa is trying to stop any loses early on and be very flexible with the situation.
 
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enilria
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Re: Lufthansa is considering to ground entire A380 fleet

Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:54 pm

...OR enough extra room for inflight soccer match...
 
dcajet
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:00 pm

Aerolineas Argentinas has reduced EZE-FCO to 3x w during March.

https://twitter.com/PromoViajera/status ... 2436187136
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Lufthansa is considering to ground entire A380 fleet

Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:02 pm

Just like post-9/11, the older big birds are the easiest to send off to pasture.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
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DBCoop3r
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Re: Lufthansa is considering to ground entire A380 fleet

Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:07 pm

^It seems most 380 operators outside of EK will make any excuse to put the big girl out to pasture if we are being honest.
 
AA747123
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:11 pm

chonetsao wrote:
Among them, I think AA's decision for Oasis is one example. Now the B738 will add 12 seats and take away AVOD PTV, how AA will compete with Delta (which is ADDING AVOD PTV in its fleet) in a weak demand environment? If AA did not decide to go with Oasis project, it could have saved at least $400 millions (suppose if each modification only cost $2 million, I think the cost is more in reality but I have no way to check) in cash reserve and expenditures, and less capacity on routes planning, also would have preserved a much better on board products. In my personal opinion, Never-loose-money-again Dougie Parker is making a fool of himself in this Oasis project. The irony is, should AA decide to match DL's onboard product again, it needs to invest even more money to revert the Oasis. If that happens, that would be like $1 billion for a MBA lesson on how not to change anything if it ain't broken.


AA will NEVER reverse OASIS, was it a mistake in the first place? Yes! But AA does not seem to interested in providing a positive customer experience. Parker seems more interested in just grabbing every last dollar he can, and would rather have a once every 4 year customer at $49 than a frequent traveller who spends a lot more.

Long term I would not be surprised to see OASIS rolled out to all the wide body aircraft and if you are traveling overseas and dont have a personal device to watch a movie you are SOL!
 
ILNFlyer
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Re: Lufthansa is considering to ground entire A380 fleet

Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:19 pm

Revelation wrote:
Just like post-9/11, the older big birds are the easiest to send off to pasture.


No mention of 747-8....interesting.
 
chonetsao
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:27 pm

AA747123 wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
Among them, I think AA's decision for Oasis is one example. Now the B738 will add 12 seats and take away AVOD PTV, how AA will compete with Delta (which is ADDING AVOD PTV in its fleet) in a weak demand environment? If AA did not decide to go with Oasis project, it could have saved at least $400 millions (suppose if each modification only cost $2 million, I think the cost is more in reality but I have no way to check) in cash reserve and expenditures, and less capacity on routes planning, also would have preserved a much better on board products. In my personal opinion, Never-loose-money-again Dougie Parker is making a fool of himself in this Oasis project. The irony is, should AA decide to match DL's onboard product again, it needs to invest even more money to revert the Oasis. If that happens, that would be like $1 billion for a MBA lesson on how not to change anything if it ain't broken.


AA will NEVER reverse OASIS, was it a mistake in the first place? Yes! But AA does not seem to interested in providing a positive customer experience. Parker seems more interested in just grabbing every last dollar he can, and would rather have a once every 4 year customer at $49 than a frequent traveller who spends a lot more.

Long term I would not be surprised to see OASIS rolled out to all the wide body aircraft and if you are traveling overseas and dont have a personal device to watch a movie you are SOL!


Unfortunately you might be right. And I agree with you reluctantly.

I do however live in hope that the next AA leader may be able to reverse the damage Dougie is doing.
 
uta999
Posts: 905
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Re: Lufthansa is considering to ground entire A380 fleet

Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:31 pm

Lease them all to BA. Paint and a few headrest covers, job done.
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MIflyer12
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Re: Lufthansa is considering to ground entire A380 fleet

Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:33 pm

DBCoop3r wrote:
^It seems most 380 operators outside of EK will make any excuse to put the big girl out to pasture if we are being honest.


The execs have a fiduciary duty to shareholders to make money, not to tell calming stories to a segment of a.netters.

'Temporarily taken out of service' isn't the same as permanent retirement but the former can evolve into the latter.
 
crjflyboy
Posts: 457
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Re: Lufthansa is considering to ground entire A380 fleet

Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:34 pm

we are going to see a lot more of this as the irrational panic fueled by the media continues
 
PSAatSAN4Ever
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Re: Lufthansa is considering to ground entire A380 fleet

Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:52 pm

Speculation on whether this is a temporary removal from service of A380's or a complete removal of the entire fleet from LH entirely is useless. Until Lufthansa makes the announcement as to which one it is, we can argue here at a.net until this thread has 5000 posts, but it won't tell us anything other than the fact that we're not in charge.

I'm not saying one side is right or wrong; I'm saying wait until the information is discussed by LH management.

I can say that whatever their decision is, the bean counters will calculate the LEAST efficient plane to remove (cost per pax per mile and so on), and leave the rest. Not every airport served by LH can utilize the A330 and fly to Germany - San Diego is the example where the four engine A340-300 is the perfect plane.
 
77H
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:53 pm

chonetsao wrote:
Well, before the virus, all airlines are adding seats to its planes to take advantage of the growth and they see only upwards growth and never retreat. So all major airlines wasted millions to add 6-12 seats per single aisle plane, which resulted in 4%-10% capacity rise as well as customer complaints.

Now, with the capacity cut cross the board and weak demand for several months if not years to come, will airlines now concentrate on service (i.e. free food or drinks) and hardware (i.e. better legrooms) to woo customer to fly with them?

Among them, I think AA's decision for Oasis is one example. Now the B738 will add 12 seats and take away AVOD PTV, how AA will compete with Delta (which is ADDING AVOD PTV in its fleet) in a weak demand environment? If AA did not decide to go with Oasis project, it could have saved at least $400 millions (suppose if each modification only cost $2 million, I think the cost is more in reality but I have no way to check) in cash reserve and expenditures, and less capacity on routes planning, also would have preserved a much better on board products. In my personal opinion, Never-loose-money-again Dougie Parker is making a fool of himself in this Oasis project. The irony is, should AA decide to match DL's onboard product again, it needs to invest even more money to revert the Oasis. If that happens, that would be like $1 billion for a MBA lesson on how not to change anything if it ain't broken.


Your logic, applied another way begs the question why airlines like the US3 have spent hundreds of millions on upgrading their premium hard and soft product? After all, many of the seats are flying around empty right now...

The airlines don’t base interior configuration decisions based on the possibility of an event that drastically reduces air travel demand like COVID-19 or 9/11 or the ‘08 recession.

77H
 
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Revelation
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Re: Lufthansa is considering to ground entire A380 fleet

Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:54 pm

ILNFlyer wrote:
Revelation wrote:
Just like post-9/11, the older big birds are the easiest to send off to pasture.

No mention of 747-8....interesting.

When looking at the various reviews of A380 vs 748i they all say the A380 wins when you can fill it. Well, that's the issue right now, they can't fill it. It has ~40% more seats to fill than 748i ( 509 vs 364 according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lufthansa#Current_fleet ) and empty seats deliver no revenue. Even 744 in its densest configuration is 30% less seats ( 509 vs 393 ). People seem to forget how big A380 really is, and how difficult it is to get 500+ people who all want to go from X to Y at the same time and are willing to pay enough to make the flight profitable. A380s lack of engine improvements really holds it back.

We know LH has invoked contractual rights to sell back six A380s to Airbus. This announcement does make one wonder if LH is thinking of ending the fleet sooner rather than later. 744 is vulnerable but they already plan to replace it with 777x coming as soon as Boeing can get through flight test. I'd say LH isn't ready to make up the capacity the A380s represent till 779 has fully ramped up, but it seems A380 is pretty vulnerable.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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Arion640
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Re: Lufthansa is considering to ground entire A380 fleet

Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:57 pm

This is a temporary grounding only until Coronavirus passes.
 
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Terrier79
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:44 am

Re: Lufthansa is considering to ground entire A380 fleet

Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:01 pm

In my understanding this is meant to be a temporary grounding of the A380 fleet to react on obviously dramatically fallen demand.
If they return to service or not will heavily depend on how long this Corona crisis will endure and how long it takes until demand catches up again to the levels before the crisis.

In addition, I could imagine that this crisis will mean the immediate end of the MD11 as part of the cargo fleet instead of end of the year.
 
crjflyboy
Posts: 457
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Re: Lufthansa is considering to ground entire A380 fleet

Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:01 pm

Arion640 wrote:
This is a temporary grounding only until Coronavirus passes.


I concur ..
 
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Revelation
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Re: Lufthansa is considering to ground entire A380 fleet

Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:03 pm

PSAatSAN4Ever wrote:
Speculation on whether this is a temporary removal from service of A380's or a complete removal of the entire fleet from LH entirely is useless. Until Lufthansa makes the announcement as to which one it is, we can argue here at a.net until this thread has 5000 posts, but it won't tell us anything other than the fact that we're not in charge.

I'm not saying one side is right or wrong; I'm saying wait until the information is discussed by LH management.

I can say that whatever their decision is, the bean counters will calculate the LEAST efficient plane to remove (cost per pax per mile and so on), and leave the rest. Not every airport served by LH can utilize the A330 and fly to Germany - San Diego is the example where the four engine A340-300 is the perfect plane.

By your logic LH has just indicated what the least efficient plane is. The fact they are selling 6 back to Airbus shows they think they already have too many. AF has commented that they are a difficult plane to maintain. Getting rid of an entire fleet type saves a lot of money. It's pretty clear that CV has already impacted consumer decisions for the 2020 northern summer travel peak. As above I think LH will still need the remaining A380s till the 779s are here in force but if CV leads to a longer term economic recession I think A380 is the most vulnerable part of the LH fleet.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
dampfnudel
Posts: 586
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:16 pm

LNCS0930 wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
dampfnudel wrote:
I’m a little surprised that some airlines are still flying into Italy at all, in particular Rome.

The infection rate problem is near Milan, not Rome.


Yeah. Seems most people do not do this I saw loads to FCO on all the carriers and they are pretty insanely low. That would be like being afraid to go Philadelphia right now because NYC 25 cases. The airlines/media though have not done a great job specifying where the cases are.

They’re specifying where the cases are, but it’s not hard to imagine that community spread is occurring in Rome and probably a lot of other cities at the moment in a relatively stealthy way, including cities in other European countries and the US. It probably doesn’t make sense anymore to stop all flights into an affected country due to the fear of accelerated spread anymore and doing it solely based on decreased demand. That horse left the stable weeks ago in Italy and other places.
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musman9853
Posts: 961
Joined: Mon May 14, 2018 12:30 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020

Fri Mar 06, 2020 6:35 pm

mcogator wrote:

Absolutely insane. There's got to be something more than the virus causing this
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