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mga707
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:14 am

chepos wrote:
mga707 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
I bet the seats were more comfortable than the seats they have on that route today. You may have been on one of the HP 733s.


2004 was two years before the HP/US merger, so not an HP 733.


Mind you HP 733’s never flew US (east) routes. They operated out of the HP CMH hub but definitely not LGA-FL.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I never flew on any America West aircraft that looked 'shabby' prior to the HP/US merger. Even a couple of long-in-the-tooth 737-100s in the mid-90s looked decent inside. As did all of the -200s/-300s/A320s/757s I was on. The sole 747 flight I took and the multiple DHC-8s as well.
 
N649DL
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:23 am

USPIT10L wrote:
They didn't even announce the HP/US merger until May of 2005......he flew that route in 2004.


People forget that if the HP/US merger didn't go through, US would've definitely been liquidated. Their financial situation in 2004-2005 was beyond dire and HP essentially saved them. However, it also gave each airline what it needed: for US it was hubs in the West in PHX and LAS, and for HP it was the East Coast and TATL access. It wasn't perfect, but it was a totally acceptable combination before the mega mergers in the late 2000s. Both airlines were nonexistent in South America and Asia and didn't grow their combined network to accommodate that either (enter AA.)

I would assume the USAirways branding changed happened because of how bad their safety reputation had become. In the early 1990s, they were commonly known as "US Scare" as a result. As a kid, I felt like it was all too often that I heard about a USAir crash on the news where people died (American Eagle as well.)

Although it wasn't efficient, if you look back at the US route system in the early 1990s (domestically) it was pretty impressive. They had Focus Cities in every region of the country from the Midwest (MCI / CLE) to the West Coast (LAX) to Upstate NY (SYR / BUF) to Florida (MCO / MIA) to the Northeast (BOS / EWR / LGA) in addition to their major hubs in PIT, DCA, BWI, CLT, PHL etc. They were way too bloated to be efficient.
 
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chepos
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:35 am

mga707 wrote:
chepos wrote:
mga707 wrote:

2004 was two years before the HP/US merger, so not an HP 733.


Mind you HP 733’s never flew US (east) routes. They operated out of the HP CMH hub but definitely not LGA-FL.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I never flew on any America West aircraft that looked 'shabby' prior to the HP/US merger. Even a couple of long-in-the-tooth 737-100s in the mid-90s looked decent inside. As did all of the -200s/-300s/A320s/757s I was on. The sole 747 flight I took and the multiple DHC-8s as well.


For a time some of the HP 733 fleet had in seat screens, which contained games and connecting flight info (no movies). This was during the 90’s when this was a rather novel concept.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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blacksoviet
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:41 am

usflyer msp wrote:
mats wrote:
@blacksoviet, US Airways started flying to Heathrow in 2008 (from Philadelphia).

In 2007, they moved from Orly to Roissy/Charles de Gaulle.


US moved to CDG well before 2007. The first time I went to Europe in 1995, I flew US and it was into ORY and back from CDG because the flight was relocated.

Did your travel agent know that the flight was going to be relocated?
 
blacksoviet
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:44 am

chepos wrote:
mga707 wrote:
chepos wrote:

Mind you HP 733’s never flew US (east) routes. They operated out of the HP CMH hub but definitely not LGA-FL.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I never flew on any America West aircraft that looked 'shabby' prior to the HP/US merger. Even a couple of long-in-the-tooth 737-100s in the mid-90s looked decent inside. As did all of the -200s/-300s/A320s/757s I was on. The sole 747 flight I took and the multiple DHC-8s as well.


For a time some of the HP 733 fleet had in seat screens, which contained games and connecting flight info (no movies). This was during the 90’s when this was a rather novel concept.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I remember in 2000, the flight attendant told me that the screens were no longer in use because people broke the cables for the game controllers.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:46 am

blacksoviet wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
mats wrote:
@blacksoviet, US Airways started flying to Heathrow in 2008 (from Philadelphia).

In 2007, they moved from Orly to Roissy/Charles de Gaulle.


US moved to CDG well before 2007. The first time I went to Europe in 1995, I flew US and it was into ORY and back from CDG because the flight was relocated.

Did your travel agent know that the flight was going to be relocated?


Yes, we knew well ahead of time that our flight was into ORY and back from CDG.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:19 am

N649DL wrote:
USPIT10L wrote:
They didn't even announce the HP/US merger until May of 2005......he flew that route in 2004.


People forget that if the HP/US merger didn't go through, US would've definitely been liquidated. Their financial situation in 2004-2005 was beyond dire and HP essentially saved them. However, it also gave each airline what it needed: for US it was hubs in the West in PHX and LAS, and for HP it was the East Coast and TATL access. It wasn't perfect, but it was a totally acceptable combination before the mega mergers in the late 2000s. Both airlines were nonexistent in South America and Asia and didn't grow their combined network to accommodate that either (enter AA.)

I would assume the USAirways branding changed happened because of how bad their safety reputation had become. In the early 1990s, they were commonly known as "US Scare" as a result. As a kid, I felt like it was all too often that I heard about a USAir crash on the news where people died (American Eagle as well.)

Although it wasn't efficient, if you look back at the US route system in the early 1990s (domestically) it was pretty impressive. They had Focus Cities in every region of the country from the Midwest (MCI / CLE) to the West Coast (LAX) to Upstate NY (SYR / BUF) to Florida (MCO / MIA) to the Northeast (BOS / EWR / LGA) in addition to their major hubs in PIT, DCA, BWI, CLT, PHL etc. They were way too bloated to be efficient.


Does Stephen Wolf regret ordering so many A330-300s? Were those aircraft too big for US Airways? What routes did he initially assign the A330-300s to?

US Airways received their first A330-300 in 2000. Considering the AA merger, would it have made more sense to convert some of those orders to A330-200s?
 
USPIT10L
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:47 am

Wolf was a corporate raider who was coaxed into every head job he took (Republic, Flying Tigers, United, US Airways) and basically redid the image, then sold the company to an outside party, usually resulting in a merger or takeover. When the US/UA deal fell through in 2001, he had a lot of egg on his face. His reputation was basically ruined. I appreciate the geniune interest in the subject matter, but you have to realize airlines were not profitable all the time previously and although you would see some ceremony when certain fleet types were retired, not all types were created equal.
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KFTG
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:11 am

blacksoviet wrote:
US Airways received their first A330-300 in 2000. Considering the AA merger, would it have made more sense to convert some of those orders to A330-200s?

I struggle to find any coherent logic in this post, but no - it would not have made sense. Convert what -300 orders? All of the -300s had been delivered by the time of the US/AA merger in 2015.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:40 am

Ed Colodny was seated in Business Class for the final US Airways flight to San Francisco.
 
Lootess
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:05 am

US Airways was affected by 9/11 probably the most of any airline, having the DCA hub on a longer shut down sent them in the red quicker as it didn't re-open until 10/2, and it was on a severely limited schedule. 111 aircraft would also be sent to retirement as a result (732, MD80s, F100s)

Remember their HQ was in Crystal City, before going to Phoenix with Doug Parker's airline. They probably saved a lot in personnel and rent as a result of that.

Considering US Airways having the LGA, BWI, and DCA hub in the day, it was an appropriate re-brand to become more business oriented.
 
phllax
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:36 am

chepos wrote:
For a time some of the HP 733 fleet had in seat screens, which contained games and connecting flight info (no movies). This was during the 90’s when this was a rather novel concept.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Are you sure you aren’t confused with the FlightLink seatback system that US had in at least the 757 fleet and maybe the 767 and LR 733/734 fleets?
 
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Schweigend
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:42 am

chepos wrote:
For a time some of the HP 733 fleet had in seat screens, which contained games and connecting flight info (no movies). This was during the 90’s when this was a rather novel concept.


Thank you for mentioning this !

It made me recall a trip I took on HP in Spring 1995 SFO-PHX-DEN, paid for with CO OnePass miles (CO and HP were partners at the time).

The afternoon flight SFO-PHX was actually my first time on an A320, and yes, it too had those little seatback screens with some games. I tried it out but found it boring, since the window view provided the best entertainment, seated as I was just forward of the wing. The engines were noisier than I'd expected, compared to CFMs -- the high-pitched ratcheting sound that I've now gotten used to with V2500s.

Once at PHX Sky Harbor, I enjoyed a cigarette break in the nice outdoor viewing area that existed then (does it still now?) on the concourse.

My connecting flight to DEN was on a 733, and it too had the same seat back screen, but I didn't use it.

Overall, my experience with HP was very pleasant.
 
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cougar15
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:38 am

IADCA wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Many of the original US Air 737-300s were retired with less than 25 years of service. The last one was retired in 2012. Hopefully one of them will fly again someday.


I don't think any of the -300s are still active (2012 was a while ago, especially in the lives of old planes), but a couple of the -400s are still active.


Converted Freighters at Swiftair Spain nowadays.....
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IADCA
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:49 pm

cougar15 wrote:
IADCA wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Many of the original US Air 737-300s were retired with less than 25 years of service. The last one was retired in 2012. Hopefully one of them will fly again someday.


I don't think any of the -300s are still active (2012 was a while ago, especially in the lives of old planes), but a couple of the -400s are still active.


Converted Freighters at Swiftair Spain nowadays.....


Thanks. After poking around and as noted above, it looks like there are also a couple at Swift (US; whatever it's called now) along with the -400s. That's more than I expected to be out there.
 
twaconnie
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:30 pm

N766UA wrote:
USAir’s reputation was GARBAGE in the 90’s. I distinctly remember people thinking they were cheap and, worse, genuinely unsafe.


You right things were so bad they where known as US scare.
 
JFKCMILAXFLL
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:14 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
IADCA wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Many of the original US Air 737-300s were retired with less than 25 years of service. The last one was retired in 2012. Hopefully one of them will fly again someday.


I don't think any of the -300s are still active (2012 was a while ago, especially in the lives of old planes), but a couple of the -400s are still active.

Two of the -300s are still active with Swift Air. They were both delivered to USAir in 1989. They have 8 First Class seats.

One of the Metrojet 737-200s is still in service with the Mexican Air Force. It was delivered to USAir in 1984 and sold to the Mexican Air Force in 2006. I wonder why they didn’t buy a 737-300 instead.

The last Metrojet 737-200 was not retired until 2007. That aircraft was delivered in 1983.


Swift Air may have some ex-US 734s as well. They do not have N434US, on which I flew CLT-FLL in February 2006. It wasn't in great shape back them, and definitely a come down from the very nice A-321 I flew on the outbound FLL-CLT (flight continued on to SFO which explains the larger plane).
 
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enilria
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:52 pm

D L X wrote:
The name change had little to do with the crashes, and everything to do with Stephen Wolf cozying up with British AIRWAYS, and (mostly) dumping Boeing for a planned all-Airbus fleet. They announced the change simultaneously with the airbus order, with a full page USA Today ad.

The plan was to turn US into a business-oriented airline with a European network to take Americans to all of the business centers there.

(The merger with HP changed the all-Airbus plan.)

I actually know the REAL answer why the name was changed. This is not me speculating.

A headline ran in several major newspapers that was something like this "US Air Crashes Down" and the exec team went ballistic.

The story was about how airline crashes had decreased from the prior year, but with all the crashes at US Air this was a very sensitive issue and any more errant bad publicity was unwanted. They didn't want to change the brand dramatically and people are probably right that they wanted an attachment to British Airways in the new name, but those headlines were the impetus.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:17 pm

During their last couple months of service, the 767-200s were on the MCO-CLT route. It is rare to see a widebody on that route nowadays. Are there any old Allegheny crew members remaining at AA?
 
blacksoviet
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:53 pm

An ex-US Air 737-400 (N458UW) evacuated hundreds of Americans from Exuma, Bahamas in 2017. The Americans had been left stranded there by fraudster Billy McFarland with the help of Ja Rule.

Swift Air knew they would not be paid and donated the airplane and the crew for humanitarian assistance. This is the kind of mission that the 734 was designed for.
 
D L X
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:55 pm

enilria wrote:
D L X wrote:
The name change had little to do with the crashes, and everything to do with Stephen Wolf cozying up with British AIRWAYS, and (mostly) dumping Boeing for a planned all-Airbus fleet. They announced the change simultaneously with the airbus order, with a full page USA Today ad.

The plan was to turn US into a business-oriented airline with a European network to take Americans to all of the business centers there.

(The merger with HP changed the all-Airbus plan.)

I actually know the REAL answer why the name was changed. This is not me speculating.

A headline ran in several major newspapers that was something like this "US Air Crashes Down" and the exec team went ballistic.

The story was about how airline crashes had decreased from the prior year, but with all the crashes at US Air this was a very sensitive issue and any more errant bad publicity was unwanted. They didn't want to change the brand dramatically and people are probably right that they wanted an attachment to British Airways in the new name, but those headlines were the impetus.


There were a few years between the last crash (US427 in 1994) and the rebrand (1997). Why the long delay if the execs were so mad? (And why rebrand to something the masses would still call “u s air?”)
 
N649DL
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:32 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
N649DL wrote:
USPIT10L wrote:
They didn't even announce the HP/US merger until May of 2005......he flew that route in 2004.


People forget that if the HP/US merger didn't go through, US would've definitely been liquidated. Their financial situation in 2004-2005 was beyond dire and HP essentially saved them. However, it also gave each airline what it needed: for US it was hubs in the West in PHX and LAS, and for HP it was the East Coast and TATL access. It wasn't perfect, but it was a totally acceptable combination before the mega mergers in the late 2000s. Both airlines were nonexistent in South America and Asia and didn't grow their combined network to accommodate that either (enter AA.)

I would assume the USAirways branding changed happened because of how bad their safety reputation had become. In the early 1990s, they were commonly known as "US Scare" as a result. As a kid, I felt like it was all too often that I heard about a USAir crash on the news where people died (American Eagle as well.)

Although it wasn't efficient, if you look back at the US route system in the early 1990s (domestically) it was pretty impressive. They had Focus Cities in every region of the country from the Midwest (MCI / CLE) to the West Coast (LAX) to Upstate NY (SYR / BUF) to Florida (MCO / MIA) to the Northeast (BOS / EWR / LGA) in addition to their major hubs in PIT, DCA, BWI, CLT, PHL etc. They were way too bloated to be efficient.


Does Stephen Wolf regret ordering so many A330-300s? Were those aircraft too big for US Airways? What routes did he initially assign the A330-300s to?

US Airways received their first A330-300 in 2000. Considering the AA merger, would it have made more sense to convert some of those orders to A330-200s?


IIRC, US didn't have many A333s. They only have 9 of them, all of which are still at AA. I don't think it's a matter of them being too big for US, it's the fact that AA doesn't like to deal with smaller sub fleets. Also they're pretty old by now being between 19 and 20 years old.
 
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enilria
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:40 pm

D L X wrote:
enilria wrote:
D L X wrote:
The name change had little to do with the crashes, and everything to do with Stephen Wolf cozying up with British AIRWAYS, and (mostly) dumping Boeing for a planned all-Airbus fleet. They announced the change simultaneously with the airbus order, with a full page USA Today ad.

The plan was to turn US into a business-oriented airline with a European network to take Americans to all of the business centers there.

(The merger with HP changed the all-Airbus plan.)

I actually know the REAL answer why the name was changed. This is not me speculating.

A headline ran in several major newspapers that was something like this "US Air Crashes Down" and the exec team went ballistic.

The story was about how airline crashes had decreased from the prior year, but with all the crashes at US Air this was a very sensitive issue and any more errant bad publicity was unwanted. They didn't want to change the brand dramatically and people are probably right that they wanted an attachment to British Airways in the new name, but those headlines were the impetus.


There were a few years between the last crash (US427 in 1994) and the rebrand (1997). Why the long delay if the execs were so mad? (And why rebrand to something the masses would still call “u s air?”)

?
It became a priority immediately after that headline ran. I think it was WSJ and USA Today. Not sure I get your question? There was no delay.

Again the story was not about USAir at all. It was about the trend in air crashes for the industry. The execs felt that the name USAir led to confusion with these types of headlines and reinforcement of the safety record concerns.
 
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dabpit
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:25 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
During their last couple months of service, the 767-200s were on the MCO-CLT route. It is rare to see a widebody on that route nowadays. Are there any old Allegheny crew members remaining at AA?

Yes there are. You can find the Allegheny FAs on routes out of PHL to places like DBV, BUD, and PRG (don't ever ask one what they think of DP or AA, they aren't afraid to say how they feel haha).
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blacksoviet
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:40 pm

The final flight departed from Gate 45 at SFO Boarding Area C. Was this one of the original USAir gates?

They made sure to use an A321 that had not been repainted. AA has three gates in Boarding Area C.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:45 pm

dabpit wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
During their last couple months of service, the 767-200s were on the MCO-CLT route. It is rare to see a widebody on that route nowadays. Are there any old Allegheny crew members remaining at AA?

Yes there are. You can find the Allegheny FAs on routes out of PHL to places like DBV, BUD, and PRG (don't ever ask one what they think of DP or AA, they aren't afraid to say how they feel haha).

It is amazing that the Allegheny legacy lives on in Croatia, forty years after the airline’s demise.
 
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hOMSaR
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:48 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
An ex-US Air 737-400 (N458UW) evacuated hundreds of Americans from Exuma, Bahamas in 2017. The Americans had been left stranded there by fraudster Billy McFarland with the help of Ja Rule.

Swift Air knew they would not be paid and donated the airplane and the crew for humanitarian assistance. This is the kind of mission that the 734 was designed for.


Um... ok.
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steeler83
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:23 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
USPIT10L wrote:

I was referring specifically to the mainline fleet.

Are you saying that there might have been some polished aluminum Dash 8s flying around in 2008?


The Express fleet in the 90s USAir livery was never in polished silver. Always was in white.

This BEH appears to be the last ever aircraft in service with USAir titles from mid-December 2007:



Maybe it made it to early 2008. Who knows.

I think I saw that very plane during a PIT trip over Christmas 2006 or some time the following year. I remember doing a double-take as our flight taxied past it as it was parked at the end of A. There were some planes donning the "new" US Airways, the old dark blue US Airways livery (which I hated), and then there was this one.
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USPIT10L
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:29 pm

IIRC, tbe dark-colored BE1s ended up at CommutAir flying CO Connection flights to/from CLE until they got the Dashes. CO Express was all-jet. CO Connection was the turboprop flying (Colgan Air/CommutAir). After the CO/UA merger it was all amalgamated into UA Express.

When CommutAir left the US express network, they partnered with CO. Therefore, they never repainted the BE1s into CO colors.
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TWA772LR
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:40 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
dabpit wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
During their last couple months of service, the 767-200s were on the MCO-CLT route. It is rare to see a widebody on that route nowadays. Are there any old Allegheny crew members remaining at AA?

Yes there are. You can find the Allegheny FAs on routes out of PHL to places like DBV, BUD, and PRG (don't ever ask one what they think of DP or AA, they aren't afraid to say how they feel haha).

It is amazing that the Allegheny legacy lives on in Croatia, forty years after the airline’s demise.

Uhhhh pretty sure he just meant anyone left from Allegheny would be really senior and therefore have the more sought-after trips and perks, not that any legal part of Allegheny is actually in Croatia...
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dabpit
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:50 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
dabpit wrote:
Yes there are. You can find the Allegheny FAs on routes out of PHL to places like DBV, BUD, and PRG (don't ever ask one what they think of DP or AA, they aren't afraid to say how they feel haha).

It is amazing that the Allegheny legacy lives on in Croatia, forty years after the airline’s demise.

Uhhhh pretty sure he just meant anyone left from Allegheny would be really senior and therefore have the more sought-after trips and perks, not that any legal part of Allegheny is actually in Croatia...

Correct, I meant that Allegheny crew are really senior and do get the most sought after trips. When there was PHL-TLV that was a popular bid for those senior folks.
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chepos
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:55 pm

dabpit wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
It is amazing that the Allegheny legacy lives on in Croatia, forty years after the airline’s demise.

Uhhhh pretty sure he just meant anyone left from Allegheny would be really senior and therefore have the more sought-after trips and perks, not that any legal part of Allegheny is actually in Croatia...

Correct, I meant that Allegheny crew are really senior and do get the most sought after trips. When there was PHL-TLV that was a popular bid for those senior folks.


ATH, FCO and VCE usually are very senior trips (when they operate), seniority usually averages 40+. FRA when it operated usually went very senior due to the layover time in FRA, it was considered one of the better PHL trips.


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LAXLHR
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:17 pm

mats wrote:
I think there were a few factors.

There were several fatal accidents. under the USAir brand: US5050 (1989), US1491 (1991), US405 (1992), US427 (1994), US1016 (1994).
USAir was suffering from a poor public image as well as an unfortunate series of fatal accidents.

The airline was complicated due to a series of mergers: Allegheny, Piedmont, PSA, Empire, Mohawk, The T***p Shuttle. The route network was very much short-haul with high labour costs. There were some interesting hubs that seemed to overlap: a hub in Dayton and in Indianapolis with a "focus city in Cleveland;" Syracuse and LaGuardia, smaller foci in New Orleans and Kansas City for USAir Express. It was all over the place, and not necessarily lucrative.

The fleet was older, and thus had higher fuel and maintenance costs. Drawing from mergers and its own fleet, USAir had overlapping F28's, F100s, DC-9s, BAC 1-11s... it was a complicated and inefficient network.

Meanwhile, the competition had simplified: they had removed hubs, simplified and modernized their fleets, and focused on high-revenue, longhaul business class traffic, especially in the North Atlantic.

USAir tried to establish a stronger North Atlantic presence through an alliance with British Airways. This included a bizarre "wet lease," in which USAir 767s were painted to look like BA aircraft. They even had a designated flight on Dash-8 from Washington/National to JFK to connect with a Concorde departure. All of this was short-lived.

USAir also tried establishing itself in other niches. They emphasized Florida (the short-lived Florida Shuttle) and California (the California Shuttle), and a stronger presence to the Caribbean. They partnered with LatinPass, but this, also, was brief.

USAir brought in Stephen Wolf from United. Wolf was--err--"uptown." He was a francophile, and he wanted a more European flair. His plan involved rebranding as US "Airways" to a livery that looked A LOT like United. The once patriotic blue and red cabins gave way to two-tone grey.

The attention would be on business travellers (the magazine was renamed "Attaché" and the forward cabin became Envoy Class.) US Airways rapidly added transatlantic routes. The airline got rid of its older aircraft, moving toward a predominantly Airbus fleet. The many hubs were simplified to just a few.

In its next iteration, the America West takeover led to a white livery, blue leather seats, and (I think) sharper uniforms. The Pittsburgh hub dismantled and Phoenix became a stronghold. More longhaul overwater routes developed, including services to Hawaii, Brazil, and Israel. The service was suffered. At one point, passengers had to pay for water. The A320s and 321s on transcon flights were painfully uncomfortable--even in first class, the food was sad, the crews dismissive, and there was no entertainment.


Yup! The two back to back LGA crashes put me off, and the LAX landing on top of another plane was the absolute worst!
BA IB ET JM EA GK PA VS AA SN HP CO W7 WN NW DL UA AC US LH LX OS JL QF QR WY MH CX U2 EK 9W UK TP VY VN LO OK OZ UL SQ LA

707 727 L10 732-NG 741 742 743 744 752 753 762 763 772 773 787 DC8 DC9 DC10 M80 M11 100 AB3 310 318 319 320 321 330s 340s 350 380
 
fjnovak1
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:44 am

blacksoviet wrote:
The final flight departed from Gate 45 at SFO Boarding Area C. Was this one of the original USAir gates?

They made sure to use an A321 that had not been repainted. AA has three gates in Boarding Area C.


No. Gate 45 had been a NW gate and then DL. Not sure what led to DL giving it up but maybe they gained a gate when HA moved out of that concourse. US needed a place to go after leaving the old concourse A when it was torn down) had been PSA dating back to the 80’s) then boarding area B after the merger with HP (closed to make that new concourse they have)
Go Blue!!
 
D L X
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:46 am

enilria wrote:
D L X wrote:
enilria wrote:
I actually know the REAL answer why the name was changed. This is not me speculating.

A headline ran in several major newspapers that was something like this "US Air Crashes Down" and the exec team went ballistic.

The story was about how airline crashes had decreased from the prior year, but with all the crashes at US Air this was a very sensitive issue and any more errant bad publicity was unwanted. They didn't want to change the brand dramatically and people are probably right that they wanted an attachment to British Airways in the new name, but those headlines were the impetus.


There were a few years between the last crash (US427 in 1994) and the rebrand (1997). Why the long delay if the execs were so mad? (And why rebrand to something the masses would still call “u s air?”)

?
It became a priority immediately after that headline ran. I think it was WSJ and USA Today. Not sure I get your question? There was no delay.

Again the story was not about USAir at all. It was about the trend in air crashes for the industry. The execs felt that the name USAir led to confusion with these types of headlines and reinforcement of the safety record concerns.

Ahhhhhhh. Thanks for the explanation. I read it way differently the second time.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:36 am

Does anybody remember when USAir retired the 727-100? They inherited them from Allegheny and Piedmont. They had the same range as the 733s.
 
PI4EVR
Posts: 106
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:43 pm

US did not fly any Boeing 727-100's inherited from Piedmont as PI retired them from their fleet in 1983.
US inherited 727-200's from both PS and PI in relation to the mergers of 1987-1989, and had previously removed 727's in both versions from their fleet much earlier.
 
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deltacto
Posts: 471
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:04 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
Does anybody remember when USAir retired the 727-100? They inherited them from Allegheny and Piedmont. They had the same range as the 733s.


Allegheny acquired 11 727-22's from United in 1978 ... they all went on to fly with US Air and were retired in 1982 and 1983

http://www.aeromoe.com/fleets/us.html
 
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enilria
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:45 pm

D L X wrote:
enilria wrote:
D L X wrote:

There were a few years between the last crash (US427 in 1994) and the rebrand (1997). Why the long delay if the execs were so mad? (And why rebrand to something the masses would still call “u s air?”)

?
It became a priority immediately after that headline ran. I think it was WSJ and USA Today. Not sure I get your question? There was no delay.

Again the story was not about USAir at all. It was about the trend in air crashes for the industry. The execs felt that the name USAir led to confusion with these types of headlines and reinforcement of the safety record concerns.

Ahhhhhhh. Thanks for the explanation. I read it way differently the second time.

That was exactly the problem!
 
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PITingres
Posts: 1304
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:58 pm

N649DL wrote:
... would assume the USAirways branding changed happened because of how bad their safety reputation had become. In the early 1990s, they were commonly known as "US Scare" as a result. ...


Actually, it was UselessAir and then US Scareways. I never heard US Scare.
Fly, you fools! Fly!
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1988
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:23 pm

D L X wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
UA444 wrote:
Or Continental, who needed two bankruptcies and a strong economy they had no hand in creating to survive

And US Airways was Stephen Wolf’s doing. He wanted a more business like airline and the name change was supposed to reflect that. He also was madly in love with the color grey.


What made him think business travelers would want to fly on his disgusting planes and subpar service? I remember seeing photos posted of filthy furniture in their clubs, mold growing in air vents on the planes, and F seats with tape on them. US Airways was not known for exceptional service. Far from it.

Well, how old are you? Because in the late nineties, US already had set the standard for business travel around the northeast corridor, inherited from Eastern.


chepos wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Why did Donald Carty allow BA to have a relationship with US Air?


British Airways invested in US in 93, they had a transatlantic alliance between the two (before AA). In 96 BA hooked up with AA and went ahead with selling their stake in USAir (resulting in a court battle).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, the answer was that the BA/US alliance came before the BA/AA alliance. The change to US Airways was in part to make people think that US was closer to BA than AA was.


US-BA was the genesis of global alliances.

US WAS THE GENESIS OF GLOBAL ALLIANCES.

In so many ways, US was the most underrated airline in aviation history. Not only did US basically create the 737-300 and 737-400 (they saw what could be improved in the 732 and gave Boeing design ideas), it creates the alliance and the herringbone business class. (Look it up! It wasn’t CP or AA or AC. I’m right!)

I flew AA BOS-LAX in 1998 earning US miles because of the BA-US alliance, which was highly advertised on the east coast.


USAirALB wrote:
D L X wrote:
HP had a LOT of 737s still, and a lot of 757s, and Doug Parker didn’t share the all-Airbus Philosophy.

Also, 9/11 slowed the retirement of 767s, causing US not to pick up all its A330 options. (Which I think we’re eventually converted to A350 options, then ultimately A321s.)

(Imagine a 737-Max style grounding on an airline with only one type.)

Respectfully, I disagree. Prior to the AA merger, US was well on its way to being an all Airbus carrier. The 762s/734s were on their way out, and leaving only the 752s as the only Boeing aircraft. IIRC they would have lasted for quite a while, as I seem to recall hearing that plans were being made internally to refurbish them completely.

I am not so sure about the A330 options. US placed an order for A332s after the merger (and also had options for A340s, not sure what type) almost around the same time as the A350. Originally they were to be the launch carrier for the original A350 (which was basically an A330 Lite) and then were to be the North American launch carrier for the redesigned (today's) A350.


US merged with AA years after it merged with HP. Doug Parker by then had made clear that he didn’t care about being all-Airbus like Wolf had, hence the cessation of getting rid of 757s and 762s, and notably the 734s. The HP 757s became international and Hawaii fleet. The 762s were going away before merging with AA, but that merger stalled their departure ever so slightly. All-in-all, the trend to go all-airbus collapsed long before the US-AA merger.

Remember, the US 757s were ex-EA!! Old as shiz. The HP ones were newer. The AA ones were a mix.

As for the 332’s, those were not in the original 1998 order. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/ ... c10851649/

You should snoop around a.net for the timing, but the A332 order came much later, and the A340 was never really an option.

US was the freakin’ launch customer for the A350 until no one else wanted it, and the a350 turned into a much larger plane that US didn’t need.

Which merger are you talking about, US-HP or US(new)-AA?

US only had 10 EA 757s, AC 600-609 and 618, rest were all new builds.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1988
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:24 pm

Wolf changed the name and livery to make a world class airline, he said USAir said like a national or regional carrier.
 
mga707
Posts: 309
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:27 pm

PI4EVR wrote:
US did not fly any Boeing 727-100's inherited from Piedmont as PI retired them from their fleet in 1983.
US inherited 727-200's from both PS and PI in relation to the mergers of 1987-1989, and had previously removed 727's in both versions from their fleet much earlier.


All of PSA's 727s had been retired prior to the merger. The PSA fleet at the time of merger was MD-80 and BAe-146.
 
Lootess
Posts: 370
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:08 pm

PITingres wrote:
N649DL wrote:
... would assume the USAirways branding changed happened because of how bad their safety reputation had become. In the early 1990s, they were commonly known as "US Scare" as a result. ...


Actually, it was UselessAir and then US Scareways. I never heard US Scare.


US Scare and US Scareways were common
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2257
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:56 pm

The irony is that even up until the US/AA merger, many folks (especially in the Northeast) still referred to US as "USAir", so I guess one can say that the name change/rebranding was entirely successful.
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flyjoe
Posts: 201
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:58 pm

mga707 wrote:
PI4EVR wrote:
US did not fly any Boeing 727-100's inherited from Piedmont as PI retired them from their fleet in 1983.
US inherited 727-200's from both PS and PI in relation to the mergers of 1987-1989, and had previously removed 727's in both versions from their fleet much earlier.


All of PSA's 727s had been retired prior to the merger. The PSA fleet at the time of merger was MD-80 and BAe-146.

US had new built 727s in the fleet from the 80s prior to the PI merger. Of course post merger, the 727 fleet was much larger with the addition of the PI 727s to the existing fleet. As said by mga707, nothing from PSA. US took delivery of the last passenger 727 in 1983, N779AL.
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1640
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:45 pm

flyjoe wrote:
mga707 wrote:
PI4EVR wrote:
US did not fly any Boeing 727-100's inherited from Piedmont as PI retired them from their fleet in 1983.
US inherited 727-200's from both PS and PI in relation to the mergers of 1987-1989, and had previously removed 727's in both versions from their fleet much earlier.


All of PSA's 727s had been retired prior to the merger. The PSA fleet at the time of merger was MD-80 and BAe-146.

US had new built 727s in the fleet from the 80s prior to the PI merger. Of course post merger, the 727 fleet was much larger with the addition of the PI 727s to the existing fleet. As said by mga707, nothing from PSA. US took delivery of the last passenger 727 in 1983, N779AL.

Why was this plane scrapped if it is the newest, most modern 727 in the world?
 
alasizon
Posts: 2559
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:55 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
flyjoe wrote:
mga707 wrote:

All of PSA's 727s had been retired prior to the merger. The PSA fleet at the time of merger was MD-80 and BAe-146.

US had new built 727s in the fleet from the 80s prior to the PI merger. Of course post merger, the 727 fleet was much larger with the addition of the PI 727s to the existing fleet. As said by mga707, nothing from PSA. US took delivery of the last passenger 727 in 1983, N779AL.

Why was this plane scrapped if it is the newest, most modern 727 in the world?


Nothing about a 727 is modern now.

Your incessant questions/obsessions over fleet types seem to ignore time and changes in the industry. I highly suggest doing some research and learning a bit about the changes that have occurred in the industry since the 80s/90s as that would answer a whole lot of your questions.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1640
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:44 pm

alasizon wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
flyjoe wrote:
US had new built 727s in the fleet from the 80s prior to the PI merger. Of course post merger, the 727 fleet was much larger with the addition of the PI 727s to the existing fleet. As said by mga707, nothing from PSA. US took delivery of the last passenger 727 in 1983, N779AL.

Why was this plane scrapped if it is the newest, most modern 727 in the world?


Nothing about a 727 is modern now.

Your incessant questions/obsessions over fleet types seem to ignore time and changes in the industry. I highly suggest doing some research and learning a bit about the changes that have occurred in the industry since the 80s/90s as that would answer a whole lot of your questions.

My point is why scrap the newest 727 when there are 727-100s from the 1960s still flying?
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Fri Mar 06, 2020 4:03 am

Boof02671 wrote:
Wolf changed the name and livery to make a world class airline, he said USAir said like a national or regional carrier.


US Airways was anything but world-class. And that's certainly not just my opinion. I knew a captain who left US Airways and started at the bottom again at Delta.

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