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afcjets
Posts: 3434
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:40 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
You are correct, they were opened up to passengers paying full fare and top tier flyers, I only did a couple of flights on them, nothing jumps to mind, so couldn't have been good or bad, the one thing I seem to remember was no gaspers.


The menu was the same as in J class except they also served soup in F class lol

I think I heard some F pax moved to J for a wider seat. This was before thin flat J contraptions were industry standard like they are now.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2585
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:52 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
US Airways was anything but world-class. And that's certainly not just my opinion. I knew a captain who left US Airways and started at the bottom again at Delta.


So one anonymous poster allegedly knows one anonymous employee who left one company for another? What does that prove?
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2264
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:53 pm

afcjets wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
You are correct, they were opened up to passengers paying full fare and top tier flyers, I only did a couple of flights on them, nothing jumps to mind, so couldn't have been good or bad, the one thing I seem to remember was no gaspers.


The menu was the same as in J class except they also served soup in F class lol


F had a 7 course dine-on-demand service while J had 4.
From the archived 2001 US website:
US Airways’ spacious transatlantic First Class cabin provides luxurious seating for six customers. Enjoy the ability to convert electrically-powered seats into beds which lie flat, oversized pillows, full-sized comforters and blankets, slippers and a two-piece sleep suit, along with special noise-reduction headsets and amenity kits featuring relaxation-inducing products from Crabtree & Evelyn's® aromathology line.

The finest in dining is offered, featuring unparalleled service and an exquisite menu developed by Philadelphia Master Chef Georges Perrier of Le Bec-Fin Restaurant, Chef John Burton-Race from London’s L’ORTOLAN, and other award-winning chefs. Choose from any combination – from a la carte to a complete seven-course meal anytime throughout the flight. Premium and vintage wines, French champagnes, along with espresso, cappuccino and specialty coffees are offered to complement your meal.


Envoy Class offers space to relax and work. Customers will never find a middle seat – every seat is on either a window or an aisle. Seats electronically adjust to an exceptional recline, are equipped with a computer data port and laptop power and offer a state-of-the-art, on-demand personal entertainment system.

The four-course Envoy Class meal was created by Master Chef Georges Perrier of Le Bec-Fin Restaurant, Chef John Burton-Race from London’s L’ORTOLAN as well as other top chefs. Superb dining includes a choice of four entrées and premium wine and champagne selections to delight any palate. An optional Express Meal service allows customers to make the most of their time. A snacking station satisfies in-between meal cravings.

Envoy Class customers may use departure and arrivals lounges in selected U.S. and European cities. Priority baggage is standard. On board, special noise-reduction headsets and Crabtree & Evelyn® amenity kits featuring aloe vera products ensure a comfortable flight.


Coach Class seating offers 28 rows where customers, seated in a 2-4-2 configuration, are never more than one seat from the aisle. More personal space, seats with adjustable headrests and lumbar support, along with our on-demand personal entertainment system make your transatlantic journey more enjoyable.

Meal service includes a choice of two entrees with complimentary wines from Europe and California, along with domestic and imported beer and spirits. Other features in Coach Class include a personal phone in each seat for calls throughout the flight and baby-changing tables.


US was the first US carrier to introduce AVOD, and may was the first carrier worldwide to introduce it across the Atlantic. The A333 Y seats were really nice, with 34 inch pinch and adjustable lumbar support.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:20 am

IPFreely wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
US Airways was anything but world-class. And that's certainly not just my opinion. I knew a captain who left US Airways and started at the bottom again at Delta.


So one anonymous poster allegedly knows one anonymous employee who left one company for another? What does that prove?


Go search the archived US Airways forum on Flyertalk. It's common knowledge that they were the worst of the legacy carriers with a joke of a network. They even tried to charge for water at one point. They were known as Useless Airways by many.
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1640
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:57 am

Why did Doug Parker operate 747-200s on Hawaii routes when the 757s had more than enough range to make it from Arizona?
 
USPIT10L
Posts: 2053
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:24 am

Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:04 am

HP's 747s were way before Parker was even at HP. HP flew 747s in the late 80s and early 90s (1989 to 1991). They were a primary reason they filed for BK in 1991. This has nothing to do with USAir or US Airways.

You do know Parker started at AA and then worked for NW before he came to HP, right?
Last edited by USPIT10L on Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1640
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:09 am

USPIT10L wrote:
HP's 747s were way before Parker was even at HP. HP flew 747s in the late 80s and early 90s (1989 to 1991). They were a primary reason they filed for BK in 1991. This has nothing to do with USAir or US Airways.

You do know Parker started at AA and then worked for NW before he came to HP in 2001, right?

Parker was at HP since at least 1996. It was Anderson who came from NW.
Last edited by blacksoviet on Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
D L X
Posts: 12671
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:10 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
US Airways was anything but world-class. And that's certainly not just my opinion. I knew a captain who left US Airways and started at the bottom again at Delta.


So one anonymous poster allegedly knows one anonymous employee who left one company for another? What does that prove?


Go search the archived US Airways forum on Flyertalk. It's common knowledge that they were the worst of the legacy carriers with a joke of a network. They even tried to charge for water at one point. They were known as Useless Airways by many.

Question: did you ever fly them, or are you just repeating stuff you heard others say?

I have my bets.

Also, knowledge and opinion are different things.
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1640
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:15 am

D L X wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
IPFreely wrote:

So one anonymous poster allegedly knows one anonymous employee who left one company for another? What does that prove?


Go search the archived US Airways forum on Flyertalk. It's common knowledge that they were the worst of the legacy carriers with a joke of a network. They even tried to charge for water at one point. They were known as Useless Airways by many.

Question: did you ever fly them, or are you just repeating stuff you heard others say?

I have my bets.

Also, knowledge and opinion are different things.

I wish I had gotten the chance to experience what First Class was like on a USAir 737 Classic. Did they provide hot meals? How did they treat the First Class passengers on domestic flights? Was the cockpit off limits?
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2585
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:26 am

D L X wrote:
Question: did you ever fly them, or are you just repeating stuff you heard others say?

I have my bets.

Also, knowledge and opinion are different things.


I'm not sure if he's flown them or not, but he has a long history of making stuff up on this board. Others can believe what they want. I don't believe there is any truth to his story about an employee moving from one company to another, not that it means anything anyway!
 
blacksoviet
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Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:55 am

Why didn’t Ed Colodny install a First Class cabin on some of the 762s?

Did the 762s have a coat closet?

Does Doug Parker regret not installing a crew rest cabin on the 762 fleet?
Last edited by blacksoviet on Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2367
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:58 am

IPFreely wrote:
D L X wrote:
Question: did you ever fly them, or are you just repeating stuff you heard others say?

I have my bets.

Also, knowledge and opinion are different things.


I'm not sure if he's flown them or not, but he has a long history of making stuff up on this board. Others can believe what they want. I don't believe there is any truth to his story about an employee moving from one company to another, not that it means anything anyway!


I don't have to step in crap to know it stinks. There was a website called Epinions before the social media apps came about. US Airways was always the lowest rated airline out of thousands of reviews. And you all are completely ignoring the well known anti-customer service initiatives that US Airways was known for, such as trying to charge for water. And lots of pilots move airlines. I'm not sure why that is so hard to believe.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:10 am

USAirALB wrote:
I believe the only 733s that had the monitors was a subfleet of 733-LRs that had auxiliary fuel tanks and slightly upgraded CFM engines.

The 734s also had IFE too but I don’t think every 734 was equipped. I know US at one point had a subfleet of 734s that was EOW so maybe all EOW birds had IFE.

I’ve never seen the monitors used for anything else but the old safety video with the Andean panfute music, even pre 9/11.


We got movies on both PIT-PHX and PHX-PIT in 1996 on 733s. I distinctly remember the Westbound was Mr. Holland's Opus.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
blacksoviet
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:14 am

DeltaRules wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
I believe the only 733s that had the monitors was a subfleet of 733-LRs that had auxiliary fuel tanks and slightly upgraded CFM engines.

The 734s also had IFE too but I don’t think every 734 was equipped. I know US at one point had a subfleet of 734s that was EOW so maybe all EOW birds had IFE.

I’ve never seen the monitors used for anything else but the old safety video with the Andean panfute music, even pre 9/11.


We got movies on both PIT-PHX and PHX-PIT in 1996 on 733s. I distinctly remember the Westbound was Mr. Holland's Opus.

How much did it cost to rent the headphones?
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5159
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:26 am

blacksoviet wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
I believe the only 733s that had the monitors was a subfleet of 733-LRs that had auxiliary fuel tanks and slightly upgraded CFM engines.

The 734s also had IFE too but I don’t think every 734 was equipped. I know US at one point had a subfleet of 734s that was EOW so maybe all EOW birds had IFE.

I’ve never seen the monitors used for anything else but the old safety video with the Andean panfute music, even pre 9/11.


We got movies on both PIT-PHX and PHX-PIT in 1996 on 733s. I distinctly remember the Westbound was Mr. Holland's Opus.

How much did it cost to rent the headphones?


I can't remember- I think I was 8 at the time.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
Ionosphere
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:46 pm

Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:15 am

USPIT10L wrote:
HP's 747s were way before Parker was even at HP. HP flew 747s in the late 80s and early 90s (1989 to 1991). They were a primary reason they filed for BK in 1991. This has nothing to do with USAir or US Airways.

You do know Parker started at AA and then worked for NW before he came to HP, right?


My aunt upgraded to First on HNL-PHX for like $50, sounds like they really struggled to fill those 747s
 
Ionosphere
Posts: 257
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:46 pm

Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:17 am

blacksoviet wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
I believe the only 733s that had the monitors was a subfleet of 733-LRs that had auxiliary fuel tanks and slightly upgraded CFM engines.

The 734s also had IFE too but I don’t think every 734 was equipped. I know US at one point had a subfleet of 734s that was EOW so maybe all EOW birds had IFE.

I’ve never seen the monitors used for anything else but the old safety video with the Andean panfute music, even pre 9/11.


We got movies on both PIT-PHX and PHX-PIT in 1996 on 733s. I distinctly remember the Westbound was Mr. Holland's Opus.

How much did it cost to rent the headphones?


I remember watching "As Good As It Gets" on a 734 PIT-LAX in May 1998. I think it was $5 to rent headsets.
 
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chepos
Posts: 7274
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:19 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
D L X wrote:
Question: did you ever fly them, or are you just repeating stuff you heard others say?

I have my bets.

Also, knowledge and opinion are different things.


I'm not sure if he's flown them or not, but he has a long history of making stuff up on this board. Others can believe what they want. I don't believe there is any truth to his story about an employee moving from one company to another, not that it means anything anyway!


I don't have to step in crap to know it stinks. There was a website called Epinions before the social media apps came about. US Airways was always the lowest rated airline out of thousands of reviews. And you all are completely ignoring the well known anti-customer service initiatives that US Airways was known for, such as trying to charge for water. And lots of pilots move airlines. I'm not sure why that is so hard to believe.


So your opinion is based on opinions you read on a website? The way you post one-would think you flew on US and experienced it yourself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited by chepos on Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
afcjets
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:22 am

USAirALB wrote:
afcjets wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
You are correct, they were opened up to passengers paying full fare and top tier flyers, I only did a couple of flights on them, nothing jumps to mind, so couldn't have been good or bad, the one thing I seem to remember was no gaspers.


The menu was the same as in J class except they also served soup in F class lol


F had a 7 course dine-on-demand service while J had 4.

I was going by what a FA told me at the time. It might have been after 9/11 before F service was eliminated, or she might have been confused. Since there were only 6 seats and at least 4 entree choices if you count the a la cart option, they were the same as J, just with soup and two other courses that she forgot about, they must have been really small.
 
afcjets
Posts: 3434
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:31 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Why did Doug Parker operate 747-200s on Hawaii routes when the 757s had more than enough range to make it from Arizona?


USPIT10L wrote:
HP's 747s were way before Parker was even at HP. HP flew 747s in the late 80s and early 90s (1989 to 1991). They were a primary reason they filed for BK in 1991. This has nothing to do with USAir or US Airways.

You do know Parker started at AA and then worked for NW before he came to HP, right?


No one flew 757s or 767s from the mainland to Hawaii in the 80s (actually there was an earlier topic on this and there might have been one 767 example given but there was something to it I can't remember). The 757 and 767 were not certified to be that far from an airport back then but then got re-certified later to increase the number of minutes from the closest airport. I want to say they went from 120 to 180. Back in the 80s and even early 90s, all flights to Hawaii were three or four engine aircraft. Someone might can proove me wrong though with a late 80s example.
 
afcjets
Posts: 3434
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:35 am

Ionosphere wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
DeltaRules wrote:

We got movies on both PIT-PHX and PHX-PIT in 1996 on 733s. I distinctly remember the Westbound was Mr. Holland's Opus.

How much did it cost to rent the headphones?


I remember watching "As Good As It Gets" on a 734 PIT-LAX in May 1998. I think it was $5 to rent headsets.


IIRC in the early to mid nineties it was $4, same price as beer and wine and perhaps liquor (or maybe it was $1 more)
 
afcjets
Posts: 3434
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 5:01 am

afcjets wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Why didn’t Ed Colodny install a First Class cabin on some of the 762s?

Did the 762s have a coat closet?

Does Doug Parker regret not installing a crew rest cabin on the 762 fleet?


Ed Colodny inherited Piedmont's six brand new 767-200LRs (long range) and exercised their option for six more. Since Piedmont bought them in part to launch their London flight, they wanted to offer a Business Class that rivaled established carriers' First Class. The cabin configuration in J was 2x1x2 like other airlines' F cabins on three class 767s and they had footrests too. The meal service in Piedmont's Business Class was also comparable to other airlines' international First Class. All Ed did was put new blue leather seat covers with a thin horizontal red stripe on Piedmont's 767 J seats (which were considered and sold as F on domestic flights), until the wet lease with BA. BA had two class J/Y 767s with 2x2x2 in J and US 767s got complete BA interiors including carpet, bulkheads and seat fabric per the wet lease agreement. This cabin was in place until Ed left and Wolf took over and came up with Envoy Class and he kept the 2x2x2 configuration and slapped mostly gray (his favorite color) cloth seat fabric on them.

US blocked one J seat per TA flight as a pilot rest seat.

Hopefully Parker has regrets bigger than not installing a crew rest area on the 767, even if it had been a good idea.
Last edited by afcjets on Sun Mar 08, 2020 5:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
questions
Posts: 2338
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 6:47 am

USAirALB wrote:
afcjets wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
You are correct, they were opened up to passengers paying full fare and top tier flyers, I only did a couple of flights on them, nothing jumps to mind, so couldn't have been good or bad, the one thing I seem to remember was no gaspers.


The menu was the same as in J class except they also served soup in F class lol


F had a 7 course dine-on-demand service while J had 4.
From the archived 2001 US website:
US Airways’ spacious transatlantic First Class cabin provides luxurious seating for six customers. Enjoy the ability to convert electrically-powered seats into beds which lie flat, oversized pillows, full-sized comforters and blankets, slippers and a two-piece sleep suit, along with special noise-reduction headsets and amenity kits featuring relaxation-inducing products from Crabtree & Evelyn's® aromathology line.

The finest in dining is offered, featuring unparalleled service and an exquisite menu developed by Philadelphia Master Chef Georges Perrier of Le Bec-Fin Restaurant, Chef John Burton-Race from London’s L’ORTOLAN, and other award-winning chefs. Choose from any combination – from a la carte to a complete seven-course meal anytime throughout the flight. Premium and vintage wines, French champagnes, along with espresso, cappuccino and specialty coffees are offered to complement your meal.


Envoy Class offers space to relax and work. Customers will never find a middle seat – every seat is on either a window or an aisle. Seats electronically adjust to an exceptional recline, are equipped with a computer data port and laptop power and offer a state-of-the-art, on-demand personal entertainment system.

The four-course Envoy Class meal was created by Master Chef Georges Perrier of Le Bec-Fin Restaurant, Chef John Burton-Race from London’s L’ORTOLAN as well as other top chefs. Superb dining includes a choice of four entrées and premium wine and champagne selections to delight any palate. An optional Express Meal service allows customers to make the most of their time. A snacking station satisfies in-between meal cravings.

Envoy Class customers may use departure and arrivals lounges in selected U.S. and European cities. Priority baggage is standard. On board, special noise-reduction headsets and Crabtree & Evelyn® amenity kits featuring aloe vera products ensure a comfortable flight.


Coach Class seating offers 28 rows where customers, seated in a 2-4-2 configuration, are never more than one seat from the aisle. More personal space, seats with adjustable headrests and lumbar support, along with our on-demand personal entertainment system make your transatlantic journey more enjoyable.

Meal service includes a choice of two entrees with complimentary wines from Europe and California, along with domestic and imported beer and spirits. Other features in Coach Class include a personal phone in each seat for calls throughout the flight and baby-changing tables.


US was the first US carrier to introduce AVOD, and may was the first carrier worldwide to introduce it across the Atlantic. The A333 Y seats were really nice, with 34 inch pinch and adjustable lumbar support.


I flew US F TATL once. After flying mostly QF and BA F I wasn’t impressed. They were trying, but it was just not in the same league.
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1640
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 6:47 am

Who was the CEO who shut down the Pittsburgh hub?
 
USPIT10L
Posts: 2053
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:24 am

Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:16 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Who was the CEO who shut down the Pittsburgh hub?


Dave Siegel. It took about 18-24 months to wind it down. Even during the HP/US merger it was still referred to as a secondary hub, at about 250 flights a day, down 50% from the 525+ it had in both 2001 and 1997. As afcjets said, please use google. This stuff is easily looked up online.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
USPIT10L
Posts: 2053
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:24 am

Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:20 am

Also, the primary reason the F100s were retired when they were is Fokker's bankruptcy in late 2001. Parts became nearly impossible to find, for both US and AA, the lone operators of the type in the US. Yet again, you can look this up online.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
VC10er
Posts: 4258
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:44 am

UA444 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
US Air should have been let go. It would have stabilized the industry much sooner had it been allowed to go into Ch 7.


You could say the same thing for America West (another 9/11 govt loan guarantee recipient) and United (a 3-time loser in the same program).

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/5316334/ns/bu ... lrcQKhKiUk

Or Continental, who needed two bankruptcies and a strong economy they had no hand in creating to survive

And US Airways was Stephen Wolf’s doing. He wanted a more business like airline and the name change was supposed to reflect that. He also was madly in love with the color grey.


Often branding changes fall into 2 camps 1: Market Driven dynamics call for the need to rebrand. It could be triggered by consumer perception issues, a new more attractive competitor shows up (ala: JetBlue) or reputation has been sullied by poor service or other things. A suffering airline MUST change the fundamentals, and fix its core shortcomings; be they customer support and service issues, poor quality of hard products and lack of good route planning, etc. NORMALLY, those fundamentals must be addressed FIRST before a new livery (BRANDING CHANGE) is done. The BIGGEST MISTAKE is to signal change but indeed nothing has changed (that’s when the “lipstick on a pig” comments start flying on their own). A BRANDING CHANGE when the actual BRAND has not changed can kill a company quickly. It’s tantamount to a lie! That mistake happens most often when the NEW CEO wants to make “their mark” be seen right away. Therefore it’s an internal “thing” and the rebranding is not based on consumer insights.
Camp 2: The airline makes a huge commitment to change, or die. The competition has a serious leg up and overall consumer perceptions take a VERY LONG TIME to change (UA comes to mind)
A NEW vision, mission, and values are created and big investments are made.IMHO (UA launched their new livery a bit too soon. I think that had it been unveiled TODAY vs when they did, at least the chances of Premium Fliers would be experiencing true Polaris and lounges far more often as well as much improved customer care. Therefore a FRESH-LIVERY signals “We have changed”

USAir was a great name. But it did feel very domestic. However any name can be made to stand for anything “IF” a company fills that name with the right equity. “Apple” could have been a horrible name had Steve Jobs NOT have delivered such potent brand meaning. “USAir” executed in a very different way, could have become very prestigious had it not become only “America’s flying bus service”

Ergo: when launching international WB service, the current “brand essence” could not have stretched to complete with DL, AA and even UA (much less BA or AF or LH) - Wolf was obsessed with having an AF One (kind of image)
Many people at the time Called then “USscare” - but that was NOT the rationale behind moving to “Airways”
(Everyone was 100% wrong when Kentucky Fried [email protected] changed to “KFC” when it was believed that they wanted to get rid of the word “Fried” out of their name. It was in response to 93% of consumers ALREADY were calling them “KFC”

The single thing that REALLY stuck in my craw was the totally incorrect “American Flag” icon. There must be a million ways to create a unique AMERICAN icon. A friend of mine did the Tommy Hilfiger logo. He would have done something AMAZING, UNIQUE & TIMELESS!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
Moosefire
Posts: 135
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:47 pm

Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:24 pm

afcjets wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
When did Doug Parker finish converting the 767-200s to Envoy Class?


He didn't. Stephen Wolf changed the name of Business Class to Envoy Class and removed the British Airways J seats soon after he got there.


Bingo. And Wolf was maybe 3 CEOs prior to Parker
MD-11F/C-17A Pilot
 
afcjets
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:32 pm

VC10er wrote:
Often branding changes fall into 2 camps 1: Market Driven dynamics call for the need to rebrand. It could be triggered by consumer perception issues, a new more attractive competitor shows up (ala: JetBlue) or reputation has been sullied by poor service or other things. A suffering airline MUST change the fundamentals, and fix its core shortcomings; be they customer support and service issues, poor quality of hard products and lack of good route planning, etc. NORMALLY, those fundamentals must be addressed FIRST before a new livery (BRANDING CHANGE) is done. The BIGGEST MISTAKE is to signal change but indeed nothing has changed (that’s when the “lipstick on a pig” comments start flying on their own). A BRANDING CHANGE when the actual BRAND has not changed can kill a company quickly. It’s tantamount to a lie! That mistake happens most often when the NEW CEO wants to make “their mark” be seen right away. Therefore it’s an internal “thing” and the rebranding is not based on consumer insights.
Camp 2: The airline makes a huge commitment to change, or die. The competition has a serious leg up and overall consumer perceptions take a VERY LONG TIME to change (UA comes to mind)
A NEW vision, mission, and values are created and big investments are made.IMHO (UA launched their new livery a bit too soon. I think that had it been unveiled TODAY vs when they did, at least the chances of Premium Fliers would be experiencing true Polaris and lounges far more often as well as much improved customer care. Therefore a FRESH-LIVERY signals “We have changed”

USAir was a great name. But it did feel very domestic. However any name can be made to stand for anything “IF” a company fills that name with the right equity. “Apple” could have been a horrible name had Steve Jobs NOT have delivered such potent brand meaning. “USAir” executed in a very different way, could have become very prestigious had it not become only “America’s flying bus service”

Ergo: when launching international WB service, the current “brand essence” could not have stretched to complete with DL, AA and even UA (much less BA or AF or LH) - Wolf was obsessed with having an AF One (kind of image)
Many people at the time Called then “USscare” - but that was NOT the rationale behind moving to “Airways”
(Everyone was 100% wrong when Kentucky Fried [email protected] changed to “KFC” when it was believed that they wanted to get rid of the word “Fried” out of their name. It was in response to 93% of consumers ALREADY were calling them “KFC”

The single thing that REALLY stuck in my craw was the totally incorrect “American Flag” icon. There must be a million ways to create a unique AMERICAN icon. A friend of mine did the Tommy Hilfiger logo. He would have done something AMAZING, UNIQUE & TIMELESS!


To Wolf's credit, he did put an emphasis on on time departures (by having cabin doors close ten minutes before departure time,) and aircraft cleanliness before changing the name and look. I agree USAir was a great name, especially without the space because it also has USA in the name. I thought Airways sounded outdated. I disagree with Wolf that it sounded regional, it's like saying United or American sounds regional, and the irony is one of the world's largest and most successful airlines totally has a regional name, and of a very small and unimportant region in the business world, the Mississippi Delta.

I disagree though about not being able to compete with AA, DL, UA when launching international widebody service. First of all they didn't launch it per se, they inherited it from Piedmont and continued with Piedmont's TATL expansion plans. Piedmont's Business Class service was like First Class and this was almost ten years before CO launched Business First. Piedmont implemented domestic First Class systemwide on the same day as Business Class with the start of the London flight, 6/15/87. Piedmont actually first launched First Class on 4/1/84 on their transcon service only with the launch of CLT-LAX and DAY-LAX and later that year in November on CLT- SFO and DAY-SFO. These flights had a subfleet of 727-200s with 12 F seats and the service was over the top, including a five course dinner. USAir didn't start domestic First Class until the day of the merger 8/5/89 and had the kept the F/J and even Y service level the same as Piedmont they could have actually stolen market share from AA, DL, UA, and not just internationally. But I guess this gets into the discussion of how things could have been different if USAir had become Piedmont instead, or at least more like Piedmont.

As for KFC, I thought you were going to say the name changed occurred for legal reasons. I remember hearing 30 years ago that their menu read 2 piece white meat, leg, thigh, etc but nowhere would it say chicken, because it was so genetically modified or whatever, that it wasn't really chicken and they didn't want to be accused of false advertising. I actually believed that for years lol.

Here is a 1987 commercial advertising Piedmont's new systemwide (domestic) First Class and you can see how amazing it was.

https://youtu.be/b_XSEtkBd7k
 
PI4EVR
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 5:10 pm

afcjets - I have a set of PI logo FC china including the blue tablecloth, silverware, glassware and bud vase. A good friend worked in the catering commissary in CLT and packed and shipped me a box of PI logo items that had to be discarded/thrown away the evening of 08/04/89. No PI logo
could be displayed the morning of 08/05/89 as the "new" USAir was born.
 
USPIT10L
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 5:10 pm

I always thought USAir and US Airways was a pretty good airline, even post 9/11. Granted, I never got the chance to fly them again after 2003, but my family and I always had a pretty good experience with them. In all the years we flew them, they only missed one bag, and we only missed one connection due to weather. Don't really understand the hate from some people on this board, especially given the rdvenue and network pressures they were under post 9/11. No one took a worse hit than US after DCA was closed.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
afcjets
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 5:53 pm

USPIT10L wrote:
I always thought USAir and US Airways was a pretty good airline, even post 9/11. Granted, I never got the chance to fly them again after 2003, but my family and I always had a pretty good experience with them. In all the years we flew them, they only missed one bag, and we only missed one connection due to weather. Don't really understand the hate from some people on this board, especially given the rdvenue and network pressures they were under post 9/11. No one took a worse hit than US after DCA was closed.


I agree, although my last US flight was in 2004 and most of my experience with them was during the 90s. They definitely weren't Piedmont though and not as good as American (when American was great) or Delta, but IMO comparable to United (before United got really bad) minus the network and large widebody fleet. There were definitely some regional differences though and I could usually tell, especially if it was a former PSA crew. They hired beautiful flight attendants back in the day and even though they were always a seasoned crew, you could still tell.
 
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Polot
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:18 pm

US was overall good (not fantastic, but good although their international service and seats on board the A333s was among the top of the US carriers at the time) up until a year or two before the HP merger when they had to go into full on survival mode so service was cut and non essential maintenance was reduced heavily. The planes, both inside and out, were starting to get very ratty and staff moral was in the toilet. After HP...well there is a reason their stock symbol was LCC.

US wasn’t as good as the best of the US carriers during the mid to late 90s, but after 9/11 service and moral was falling on the others enough to essentially match US before they really started hurting.

From my memory living in CLT in the mid to late 90s US crews could best be described as inconsistent (probably as a result of various crews from various mergers, although I was too young to really know at the time). I had some of the best flights of my life on US, and some of the worse.
 
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Polot
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:51 pm

Polot wrote:
US was overall good (not fantastic, but good although their international service and seats on board the A333s was among the top of the US carriers at the time) up until a year or two before the HP merger when they had to go into full on survival mode so service was cut and non essential maintenance was reduced heavily. The planes, both inside and out, were starting to get very ratty and staff moral was in the toilet. After HP...well there is a reason their stock symbol was LCC.

US wasn’t as good as the best of the US carriers during the mid to late 90s, but after 9/11 service and moral was falling on the others enough to essentially match US before they really started hurting.

From my memory living in CLT in the mid to late 90s US crews could best be described as inconsistent (probably as a result of various crews from various mergers, although I was too young to really know at the time). I had some of the best flights of my life on US, and some of the worse.

And speaking of US post 9/11- pre-HP (too late to edit) who could forgot that disastrous attempt at a FLL focus city/hub? Who knows how many millions that ate up. US might as well have put all their remaining money in a hangar and burned it down.
 
USPIT10L
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:56 pm

IIRC, that was Ben Baldanza's baby. After US pulled up stakes there, he moved on to NK, with all that LatAm knowledge. Yeah, US was definitely desperate at that point in time.
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airtrantpa
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:18 pm

VC10er wrote:
UA444 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

You could say the same thing for America West (another 9/11 govt loan guarantee recipient) and United (a 3-time loser in the same program).

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/5316334/ns/bu ... lrcQKhKiUk

Or Continental, who needed two bankruptcies and a strong economy they had no hand in creating to survive

And US Airways was Stephen Wolf’s doing. He wanted a more business like airline and the name change was supposed to reflect that. He also was madly in love with the color grey.


Often branding changes fall into 2 camps 1: Market Driven dynamics call for the need to rebrand. It could be triggered by consumer perception issues, a new more attractive competitor shows up (ala: JetBlue) or reputation has been sullied by poor service or other things. A suffering airline MUST change the fundamentals, and fix its core shortcomings; be they customer support and service issues, poor quality of hard products and lack of good route planning, etc. NORMALLY, those fundamentals must be addressed FIRST before a new livery (BRANDING CHANGE) is done. The BIGGEST MISTAKE is to signal change but indeed nothing has changed (that’s when the “lipstick on a pig” comments start flying on their own). A BRANDING CHANGE when the actual BRAND has not changed can kill a company quickly. It’s tantamount to a lie! That mistake happens most often when the NEW CEO wants to make “their mark” be seen right away. Therefore it’s an internal “thing” and the rebranding is not based on consumer insights.
Camp 2: The airline makes a huge commitment to change, or die. The competition has a serious leg up and overall consumer perceptions take a VERY LONG TIME to change (UA comes to mind)
A NEW vision, mission, and values are created and big investments are made.IMHO (UA launched their new livery a bit too soon. I think that had it been unveiled TODAY vs when they did, at least the chances of Premium Fliers would be experiencing true Polaris and lounges far more often as well as much improved customer care. Therefore a FRESH-LIVERY signals “We have changed”

USAir was a great name. But it did feel very domestic. However any name can be made to stand for anything “IF” a company fills that name with the right equity. “Apple” could have been a horrible name had Steve Jobs NOT have delivered such potent brand meaning. “USAir” executed in a very different way, could have become very prestigious had it not become only “America’s flying bus service”

Ergo: when launching international WB service, the current “brand essence” could not have stretched to complete with DL, AA and even UA (much less BA or AF or LH) - Wolf was obsessed with having an AF One (kind of image)
Many people at the time Called then “USscare” - but that was NOT the rationale behind moving to “Airways”
(Everyone was 100% wrong when Kentucky Fried [email protected] changed to “KFC” when it was believed that they wanted to get rid of the word “Fried” out of their name. It was in response to 93% of consumers ALREADY were calling them “KFC”

The single thing that REALLY stuck in my craw was the totally incorrect “American Flag” icon. There must be a million ways to create a unique AMERICAN icon. A friend of mine did the Tommy Hilfiger logo. He would have done something AMAZING, UNIQUE & TIMELESS!


I totally agree, I think the best airline rebranding was when ValuJet took over a small airline names AirTran , and became a success story after the rebranding. of course it was necessary to rebrand after the crash in Miami and the tarnished image of LCC's in the mid to late 90s. US Air's rebranding was sort of a joke IMO.
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afcjets
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:36 am

airtrantpa wrote:
VC10er wrote:
UA444 wrote:
Or Continental, who needed two bankruptcies and a strong economy they had no hand in creating to survive

And US Airways was Stephen Wolf’s doing. He wanted a more business like airline and the name change was supposed to reflect that. He also was madly in love with the color grey.


Often branding changes fall into 2 camps 1: Market Driven dynamics call for the need to rebrand. It could be triggered by consumer perception issues, a new more attractive competitor shows up (ala: JetBlue) or reputation has been sullied by poor service or other things. A suffering airline MUST change the fundamentals, and fix its core shortcomings; be they customer support and service issues, poor quality of hard products and lack of good route planning, etc. NORMALLY, those fundamentals must be addressed FIRST before a new livery (BRANDING CHANGE) is done. The BIGGEST MISTAKE is to signal change but indeed nothing has changed (that’s when the “lipstick on a pig” comments start flying on their own). A BRANDING CHANGE when the actual BRAND has not changed can kill a company quickly. It’s tantamount to a lie! That mistake happens most often when the NEW CEO wants to make “their mark” be seen right away. Therefore it’s an internal “thing” and the rebranding is not based on consumer insights.
Camp 2: The airline makes a huge commitment to change, or die. The competition has a serious leg up and overall consumer perceptions take a VERY LONG TIME to change (UA comes to mind)
A NEW vision, mission, and values are created and big investments are made.IMHO (UA launched their new livery a bit too soon. I think that had it been unveiled TODAY vs when they did, at least the chances of Premium Fliers would be experiencing true Polaris and lounges far more often as well as much improved customer care. Therefore a FRESH-LIVERY signals “We have changed”

USAir was a great name. But it did feel very domestic. However any name can be made to stand for anything “IF” a company fills that name with the right equity. “Apple” could have been a horrible name had Steve Jobs NOT have delivered such potent brand meaning. “USAir” executed in a very different way, could have become very prestigious had it not become only “America’s flying bus service”

Ergo: when launching international WB service, the current “brand essence” could not have stretched to complete with DL, AA and even UA (much less BA or AF or LH) - Wolf was obsessed with having an AF One (kind of image)
Many people at the time Called then “USscare” - but that was NOT the rationale behind moving to “Airways”
(Everyone was 100% wrong when Kentucky Fried [email protected] changed to “KFC” when it was believed that they wanted to get rid of the word “Fried” out of their name. It was in response to 93% of consumers ALREADY were calling them “KFC”

The single thing that REALLY stuck in my craw was the totally incorrect “American Flag” icon. There must be a million ways to create a unique AMERICAN icon. A friend of mine did the Tommy Hilfiger logo. He would have done something AMAZING, UNIQUE & TIMELESS!


I totally agree, I think the best airline rebranding was when ValuJet took over a small airline names AirTran , and became a success story after the rebranding. of course it was necessary to rebrand after the crash in Miami and the tarnished image of LCC's in the mid to late 90s. US Air's rebranding was sort of a joke IMO.



I think the more impressive rebranding was Allegheny into USAir. I wonder what was behind it other than the obvious (national vs. regional)
 
blacksoviet
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:15 am

The 757s looked very impressive in the Wolf livery.
 
OB1504
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:44 am

blacksoviet wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
An ex-US Air 737-400 (N458UW) evacuated hundreds of Americans from Exuma, Bahamas in 2017. The Americans had been left stranded there by fraudster Billy McFarland with the help of Ja Rule.

Swift Air knew they would not be paid and donated the airplane and the crew for humanitarian assistance. This is the kind of mission that the 734 was designed for.


The airplane had “Fyre Festival” on the side. It was always under contract to the event. Swift just chose to continue the flying even when it became evident that the organizers would be unlikely to pay, either that or they had already been paid in advance.

“Evacuating” people who paid $1,000 to attend a festival on a tropical paradise promoted by Instagram “influencers” is hardly a humanitarian crisis.

N649DL wrote:

They definitely did as US ordered a variant with extra fuel capacity and had CRT monitors in the isles for entertainment on many 733 and 734 as well. CO also used their 733 on routes to PHX, LAX, etc. through the late 1990s until they stocked up on 738s instead.


Not sure about the -300s, but the -400s had an auxiliary fuel tank installed. Swift Air picked up a bunch of ex-US -400s and they retain the controls for the auxiliary tank on the fuel panel, though it’s been deactivated and the tanks removed.

Why would they remove the tanks on an airplane that already has short range?


Either the added complexity of having the auxiliary tanks wasn’t worth the range increase, or they wanted to standardize their 737s. The 737-400 still has decent range and can even do MIA-LIM nonstop when lightly loaded.

Polot wrote:
And speaking of US post 9/11- pre-HP (too late to edit) who could forgot that disastrous attempt at a FLL focus city/hub? Who knows how many millions that ate up. US might as well have put all their remaining money in a hangar and burned it down.


USPIT10L wrote:
IIRC, that was Ben Baldanza's baby. After US pulled up stakes there, he moved on to NK, with all that LatAm knowledge. Yeah, US was definitely desperate at that point in time.


Considering that Spirit has had a Latin American hub at FLL for nearly 15 years now, it probably would have worked out for US Airways if they had stuck with it.
 
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Polot
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:05 am

OB1504 wrote:

Polot wrote:
And speaking of US post 9/11- pre-HP (too late to edit) who could forgot that disastrous attempt at a FLL focus city/hub? Who knows how many millions that ate up. US might as well have put all their remaining money in a hangar and burned it down.


USPIT10L wrote:
IIRC, that was Ben Baldanza's baby. After US pulled up stakes there, he moved on to NK, with all that LatAm knowledge. Yeah, US was definitely desperate at that point in time.


Considering that Spirit has had a Latin American hub at FLL for nearly 15 years now, it probably would have worked out for US Airways if they had stuck with it.

US did not have the cost base to ever make it work. Spirit was not and is not saddled with high legacy costs and debts while also trying to compete with growing LCCs in the market.
 
N649DL
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:17 am

Polot wrote:
OB1504 wrote:

Polot wrote:
And speaking of US post 9/11- pre-HP (too late to edit) who could forgot that disastrous attempt at a FLL focus city/hub? Who knows how many millions that ate up. US might as well have put all their remaining money in a hangar and burned it down.


USPIT10L wrote:
IIRC, that was Ben Baldanza's baby. After US pulled up stakes there, he moved on to NK, with all that LatAm knowledge. Yeah, US was definitely desperate at that point in time.


Considering that Spirit has had a Latin American hub at FLL for nearly 15 years now, it probably would have worked out for US Airways if they had stuck with it.

US did not have the cost base to ever make it work. Spirit was not and is not saddled with high legacy costs and debts while also trying to compete with growing LCCs in the market.


The short lived FLL Focus City by US lasted for only the good part of a year in 2004 and was a desperate attempt to do something big before they were about to go under. I recall trying to fly EWR-FLL over Memorial Day back in Junior Year of high school which was nonstop on US using their "Go Fares" and it was ridiculously cheap (EG: $100 each way on an A319 nonstop.) It was impossible for them to actually make a profit with those types of rock bottom fares.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:23 am

N649DL wrote:
Polot wrote:
OB1504 wrote:





Considering that Spirit has had a Latin American hub at FLL for nearly 15 years now, it probably would have worked out for US Airways if they had stuck with it.

US did not have the cost base to ever make it work. Spirit was not and is not saddled with high legacy costs and debts while also trying to compete with growing LCCs in the market.


The short lived FLL Focus City by US lasted for only the good part of a year in 2004 and was a desperate attempt to do something big before they were about to go under. I recall trying to fly EWR-FLL over Memorial Day back in Junior Year of high school which was nonstop on US using their "Go Fares" and it was ridiculously cheap (EG: $100 each way on an A319 nonstop.) It was impossible for them to actually make a profit with those types of rock bottom fares.

The A319s had 112 coach seats. If every coach passenger paid $100 that is $11,200 in revenue if the coach cabin is full. Maybe that was enough to break even and the First Class passengers made the flight profitable. The A319 is a very light aircraft.

Did HP ever serve FLL?
 
VC10er
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:07 am

afcjets wrote:
VC10er wrote:
Often branding changes fall into 2 camps 1: Market Driven dynamics call for the need to rebrand. It could be triggered by consumer perception issues, a new more attractive competitor shows up (ala: JetBlue) or reputation has been sullied by poor service or other things. A suffering airline MUST change the fundamentals, and fix its core shortcomings; be they customer support and service issues, poor quality of hard products and lack of good route planning, etc. NORMALLY, those fundamentals must be addressed FIRST before a new livery (BRANDING CHANGE) is done. The BIGGEST MISTAKE is to signal change but indeed nothing has changed (that’s when the “lipstick on a pig” comments start flying on their own). A BRANDING CHANGE when the actual BRAND has not changed can kill a company quickly. It’s tantamount to a lie! That mistake happens most often when the NEW CEO wants to make “their mark” be seen right away. Therefore it’s an internal “thing” and the rebranding is not based on consumer insights.
Camp 2: The airline makes a huge commitment to change, or die. The competition has a serious leg up and overall consumer perceptions take a VERY LONG TIME to change (UA comes to mind)
A NEW vision, mission, and values are created and big investments are made.IMHO (UA launched their new livery a bit too soon. I think that had it been unveiled TODAY vs when they did, at least the chances of Premium Fliers would be experiencing true Polaris and lounges far more often as well as much improved customer care. Therefore a FRESH-LIVERY signals “We have changed”

USAir was a great name. But it did feel very domestic. However any name can be made to stand for anything “IF” a company fills that name with the right equity. “Apple” could have been a horrible name had Steve Jobs NOT have delivered such potent brand meaning. “USAir” executed in a very different way, could have become very prestigious had it not become only “America’s flying bus service”

Ergo: when launching international WB service, the current “brand essence” could not have stretched to complete with DL, AA and even UA (much less BA or AF or LH) - Wolf was obsessed with having an AF One (kind of image)
Many people at the time Called then “USscare” - but that was NOT the rationale behind moving to “Airways”
(Everyone was 100% wrong when Kentucky Fried [email protected] changed to “KFC” when it was believed that they wanted to get rid of the word “Fried” out of their name. It was in response to 93% of consumers ALREADY were calling them “KFC”

The single thing that REALLY stuck in my craw was the totally incorrect “American Flag” icon. There must be a million ways to create a unique AMERICAN icon. A friend of mine did the Tommy Hilfiger logo. He would have done something AMAZING, UNIQUE & TIMELESS!


To Wolf's credit, he did put an emphasis on on time departures (by having cabin doors close ten minutes before departure time,) and aircraft cleanliness before changing the name and look. I agree USAir was a great name, especially without the space because it also has USA in the name. I thought Airways sounded outdated. I disagree with Wolf that it sounded regional, it's like saying United or American sounds regional, and the irony is one of the world's largest and most successful airlines totally has a regional name, and of a very small and unimportant region in the business world, the Mississippi Delta.

I disagree though about not being able to compete with AA, DL, UA when launching international widebody service. First of all they didn't launch it per se, they inherited it from Piedmont and continued with Piedmont's TATL expansion plans. Piedmont's Business Class service was like First Class and this was almost ten years before CO launched Business First. Piedmont implemented domestic First Class systemwide on the same day as Business Class with the start of the London flight, 6/15/87. Piedmont actually first launched First Class on 4/1/84 on their transcon service only with the launch of CLT-LAX and DAY-LAX and later that year in November on CLT- SFO and DAY-SFO. These flights had a subfleet of 727-200s with 12 F seats and the service was over the top, including a five course dinner. USAir didn't start domestic First Class until the day of the merger 8/5/89 and had the kept the F/J and even Y service level the same as Piedmont they could have actually stolen market share from AA, DL, UA, and not just internationally. But I guess this gets into the discussion of how things could have been different if USAir had become Piedmont instead, or at least more like Piedmont.

As for KFC, I thought you were going to say the name changed occurred for legal reasons. I remember hearing 30 years ago that their menu read 2 piece white meat, leg, thigh, etc but nowhere would it say chicken, because it was so genetically modified or whatever, that it wasn't really chicken and they didn't want to be accused of false advertising. I actually believed that for years lol.

Here is a 1987 commercial advertising Piedmont's new systemwide (domestic) First Class and you can see how amazing it was.

https://youtu.be/b_XSEtkBd7k


Well, I’m SAD to say I never flew Piedmont! Although of all the “speedbird” symbols, I LOVED Piedmont’s! When I said that USAir felt very domestic, I’m thinking of the pre-navy blue livery era. Memory is not working (silver fuselage?) It had “US” in white I believe on a navy blue tail, and “Air” in light blue, w 2 red pinstripes? It “looked” and “felt” domestic back then. They did not look or feel like the gravitas was there “yet” to be global. I also might be repeating what Wolf said in the agency briefings?
It was probably something that Wolf had said when agencies competed to update it. Landor had done 2 USAir liveries- the dark navy with the red tip on the tail was NOT Landor (the symbol that resembled the American Flag- I think was done by an EX Landor person who had started their own agency. Same with United Battleship: Ex Landor people. Landor has given birth to more branding agencies than 1000 alley cats gave birth to kittens! I should know, because I’m one of them!

I did fly US Airways from Madrid to Philly 15+ years ago. I remember being extremely impressed with the business recliner. It was “pre flat bed” era (at least in biz) and I recall being very comfortable in full recline and leg rest. (Was it grey leather?)

Strategy is great but EXECUTION IS EVERYTHING! If what you are saying is that the TATL US Airways was really Piedmont...then it was lost execution! (What equipment did Piedmont fly TATL, and from where?)
Lufthansa is naturally amazing at execution, United has been great for almost 2 years now at execution, but I’m always afraid of the day United looses interest. So far, Polaris and many other things have been Grade A (the new Public Restrooms at EWR TC are seriously “beautiful” but still no HVAC? They are still gas chambers!)

All my USAir/US Airways flights were from LGA to “somewhere” 2 hours away. So, personally I cannot really comment, too few and too long ago.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
USPIT10L
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:17 am

CLTLGW, with 762s, from 1987 to 1989.
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Tue Mar 10, 2020 3:48 am

Growing up in ALB in the 90s we always took US (pre-WN days) simply because there were the largest carrier in ALB (ditto for almost every city in the Northeast, pre-WN/B6 days of course) and had the most options. I remember being a kid going to the airport and seeing the potpourri of US birds at ALB (73Ss/733s/734s/MD80s/DC9s/F100s along with a plethora of regional birds).

That "potpourri" of aircraft was one of the things that contributed to their high costs at the time. I also remember that they were big on meals, which no doubt contributed to high costs as well. I distinctly remember receiving a hot meal (even on short flights, my first international flight I ever took was CLT-NAS in 1999 and I remember getting pasta) or at least a snack (back in the 90s a snack meant a continental breakfast or a sandwich box in the afternoon hours) on every flight. My first flight on a wide body was PIT-LAX in 2000, and I remember the service in Y being better than Y on intercontinental runs. The meal was larger than today's meals using reusable crockery (I remember it being white with a navy blue rim at the top) on a larger tray than today's meals (I remember this bizarre side plate next to the salad/dessert plates that contained the cheese/crackers and roll). There was also a mid-flight ice cream sandwich.

I can't say this was better than UA/AA/CO at the time because I never flew them until later on. I do remember flying DL ALB-ATL with a what must on been a brand-new 738 at the time immediately before 9/11 and did not receive a meal despite the flight taking off during breakfast time (and US providing a meal on their ALB-CLT service that departed at the same time). I do remember being fascinated by the drop-down LCD monitors that DL had, though.
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questions
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Tue Mar 10, 2020 4:24 am

Don’t think this has been mentioned yet. US tried a lot of things. Anyone remember the convertible F seats (may have been marketed as Business). These were in domestic aircraft. Similar to European business class. Blocked middle seat with armrests that moved in towards the middle seat. I don’t believe the product was fully rolled out before it was nixed.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:33 am

How many gates did US Airways have at PHX prior to the HP merger? Was the South American gateway CLT or PHL?

Did John McCain have a back room deal with the FAA to allow US Airways to launch LGA-PHX?
 
blacksoviet
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:20 am

Why didn’t Ed Colodny convert some 762 options to the 767-300ER?
 
USPIT10L
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:44 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Why didn’t Ed Colodny convert some 762 options to the 767-300ER?


There was talk of 763s and PITNRT when Westinghouse and Sony were planning a factory/complex in Westmoreland County east of PIT in early 1993, but nothing came of the routes. IIRC, VW built a factory there that later went bust.

I wanna say US was in Terminal 2 at PHX with UA pre-HP merger as that was also PSA's terminal.
It's a Great Day for Hockey!
 
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Polot
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Re: U.S. Air Rebranding to U.S. Airways

Tue Mar 10, 2020 10:56 am

blacksoviet wrote:
How many gates did US Airways have at PHX prior to the HP merger? Was the South American gateway CLT or PHL?

Did John McCain have a back room deal with the FAA to allow US Airways to launch LGA-PHX?

US did not have a South American gateway. They only started flying to South America in 2009 when they launched 767 service to Brazil from CLT. US never really had suitable planes for that region until the A332s arrived (and those planes had other priorities). The A333s were too big for CLT and did not have enough range from PHL, and US did not have a massive wide body fleet to dedicate to South America ops which due to long turn times eats up aircraft availability. South America was one of the long term although maybe never spoken purposes of the failed FLL experiment.

I believe CLT had the most Caribbean and Central American destinations though.

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