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Sightseer
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:30 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
It sure is a huge coincidence if it wasn't a petty response.
SEA-DFW makes sense for a carrier with a hub in SEA, I get it. But so does LAX-ORD for any carrier with a hub in LAX

I think people have different definitions of petty. To me, AA going from 7 to 12 flights a day on MIA-MCO is a little petty. UA starting RDU-LGA was quite petty. NW and DFW-LGA was the definition of petty. But DL starting a "logical" route without going overboard on capacity doesn't quite rise to that level in my book, even though I'm sure the timing was influenced by AS joining OW.

That said, while SEA-DFW was a pretty large hole in the network, LAX-ORD is a much bigger one.
 
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DeltaMD90
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:54 pm

I'm hearing a lot about "DL winning" or "AS winning". You all realize winning means being a profitable company, right? Not lose money hand over fist until running out the other airline in a city that can support more than one carrier...

The worst part about these posts is it becomes a.net lore and then we have to deal with posters asserting that DL/AS intends to do X or Y, or their goal is to ______ when that is never what DL/AS said, it's what a bunch of random posters assert.

Everyone: the airlines are in it to make money. You don't have to have 75% market share to make money. Look at DL/B6 at JFK... pretend that is DL/AS at SEA. Airlines aren't petty... they may retaliate, tactically, but no airline that wants to stay in business is gonna add a route to piss off or own another carrier because that carrier hurt its feelings!!!

I'll add that DL is doing an amazing job now but they aren't immune to mistakes. They've made a lot of mistakes before and will make many more in the future. I'm seeing a lot of "DL is SOOOO profitable, of course they'll be successful in SEA!" I hope so, but no one is perfect...
 
JAMBOJET
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:01 pm

Sightseer wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
It sure is a huge coincidence if it wasn't a petty response.
SEA-DFW makes sense for a carrier with a hub in SEA, I get it. But so does LAX-ORD for any carrier with a hub in LAX

I think people have different definitions of petty. To me, AA going from 7 to 12 flights a day on MIA-MCO is a little petty. UA starting RDU-LGA was quite petty. NW and DFW-LGA was the definition of petty. But DL starting a "logical" route without going overboard on capacity doesn't quite rise to that level in my book, even though I'm sure the timing was influenced by AS joining OW.

That said, while SEA-DFW was a pretty large hole in the network, LAX-ORD is a much bigger one.

Fair point. Petty is probably the wrong word to describe the response.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:16 pm

DeltaMD90 wrote:
I'm hearing a lot about "DL winning" or "AS winning". You all realize winning means being a profitable company, right? Not lose money hand over fist until running out the other airline in a city that can support more than one carrier...

The worst part about these posts is it becomes a.net lore and then we have to deal with posters asserting that DL/AS intends to do X or Y, or their goal is to ______ when that is never what DL/AS said, it's what a bunch of random posters assert.

Everyone: the airlines are in it to make money. You don't have to have 75% market share to make money. Look at DL/B6 at JFK... pretend that is DL/AS at SEA. Airlines aren't petty... they may retaliate, tactically, but no airline that wants to stay in business is gonna add a route to piss off or own another carrier because that carrier hurt its feelings!!!

I'll add that DL is doing an amazing job now but they aren't immune to mistakes. They've made a lot of mistakes before and will make many more in the future. I'm seeing a lot of "DL is SOOOO profitable, of course they'll be successful in SEA!" I hope so, but no one is perfect...


It’s amazing how often people lose sight of that.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
Lootess
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:55 pm

I called this one, DL metal was coming back to route to retaliate. The good thing about DL is they don't need this route for connections unlike AA, that's what DL SEA-AMS is for.

flybry wrote:
Aceskywalker wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:

Which isn't going to happen


I’d argue that DL will overtake AS in the PNW. Like what it did to AA in JFK.

DL has a massive operation that can subsidize growing SEA into its vision of a Asian gateway, and can even justify TPAC out of PDX. SEA is home to the newest DL jets with better product than either AS or AA offer, and the A220 is a weapon that can bust into fortress hubs profitably. JVs make a strong contender for TPAC and TATL flying with KE and VS respectively.

AS arguably made a mistake getting embroiled in the bloodbath that is intra-Californian flying and buying VX, with issues in SFO. They are struggling with MAX groundings and a questionable future for Airbus jets in their roster. Alliances are dead; AS can only do so much with alliances with JL/AA/BA versus joint ventures. Arguably AS frequent fliers had better choices pre-OW (SQ, EK, KE, LATAM).



I agree. Delta will eventually overtake Alaska in Seattle much like Delta has done to AA at JFK.


Airliners.net is basically:

2013: "Delta will get ran out by Alaska"
2020: "Delta will get ran out by Alaska"

Meanwhile Delta's profit coffers continue to get larger, and now the most profitable airline in the world.

Beggars can't be choosers. If anything AS was ran out of SLC.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:13 pm

Lootess wrote:
I called this one, DL metal was coming back to route to retaliate. The good thing about DL is they don't need this route for connections unlike AA, that's what DL SEA-AMS is for.

flybry wrote:
Aceskywalker wrote:

I’d argue that DL will overtake AS in the PNW. Like what it did to AA in JFK.

DL has a massive operation that can subsidize growing SEA into its vision of a Asian gateway, and can even justify TPAC out of PDX. SEA is home to the newest DL jets with better product than either AS or AA offer, and the A220 is a weapon that can bust into fortress hubs profitably. JVs make a strong contender for TPAC and TATL flying with KE and VS respectively.

AS arguably made a mistake getting embroiled in the bloodbath that is intra-Californian flying and buying VX, with issues in SFO. They are struggling with MAX groundings and a questionable future for Airbus jets in their roster. Alliances are dead; AS can only do so much with alliances with JL/AA/BA versus joint ventures. Arguably AS frequent fliers had better choices pre-OW (SQ, EK, KE, LATAM).



I agree. Delta will eventually overtake Alaska in Seattle much like Delta has done to AA at JFK.


Airliners.net is basically:

2013: "Delta will get ran out by Alaska"
2020: "Delta will get ran out by Alaska"

Meanwhile Delta's profit coffers continue to get larger, and now the most profitable airline in the world.

Beggars can't be choosers. If anything AS was ran out of SLC.


Delta is definitely doing quite well and kudos to them. They arent going to get run out of SEA but there is a big difference between "Delta isnt going to get run out of SEA" to "Delta is going to over take Alaska in Seattle". The later isnt going to happen.
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spinotter
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:26 pm

questions wrote:
spinotter wrote:
invertir wrote:
The SEA-DFW is hilariously petty, but that said, it's on a A220 so the unit economics will be incredible. Won't take too many people on the plane to pay for it.


If DL is serious about establishing a growing hub at SEA, they will need to fly nonstop to DFW, IAH, IAD, MIA or FLL, and so on, just like the flights from their other main hubs.


Delta needs another strong TPAC partner.


At SEA/LAX/JFK/where else? So if I were choosing it would be CI or JV with MU - PVG will probably grow and grow (modulo Covid-19). What would your choice be?
 
LondonXtreme
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:33 pm

SEA-LHR is way over-served. I can't believe the number of daily departures of SEA-LHR will surpass SFO-LHR(6 daily),MIA-LHR(6 daily),IAD-LHR(6 daily).

I don't know what's the reason for BA to add 3rd daily SEA-LHR easily(even not maintain double daily during the off-peak season) instead of other cities like SFO, EWR, IAH, IAD, etc. where 3rd daily flight is long overdue.
 
questions
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:46 pm

LondonXtreme wrote:
SEA-LHR is way over-served. I can't believe the number of daily departures of SEA-LHR will surpass SFO-LHR(6 daily),MIA-LHR(6 daily),IAD-LHR(6 daily).

I don't know what's the reason for BA to add 3rd daily SEA-LHR easily(even not maintain double daily during the off-peak season) instead of other cities like SFO, EWR, IAH, IAD, etc. where 3rd daily flight is long overdue.


This is a good comparison point.

But number of flights/frequency doesn’t tell the whole story. How many seats are the airlines putting on LHR - SEA/SFO/MIA/IAD?
 
LondonXtreme
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:03 pm

questions wrote:
LondonXtreme wrote:
SEA-LHR is way over-served. I can't believe the number of daily departures of SEA-LHR will surpass SFO-LHR(6 daily),MIA-LHR(6 daily),IAD-LHR(6 daily).

I don't know what's the reason for BA to add 3rd daily SEA-LHR easily(even not maintain double daily during the off-peak season) instead of other cities like SFO, EWR, IAH, IAD, etc. where 3rd daily flight is long overdue.


This is a good comparison point.

But number of flights/frequency doesn’t tell the whole story. How many seats are the airlines putting on LHR - SEA/SFO/MIA/IAD?

Honestly, I don't know the number of seats. But BA do deploy the 747 and 380 on these routes.
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:03 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
Once United was forced into giving up the SEA-NRT & SEA-HKG routes? Nobody has of yet made them work on the US side. I do not understand why though. Those were premier routes to build on. Northwest made money on them and Delta should have as well. Maybe it was a lack of vision? Who Knows?


DL's been in the SEA-TYO market (NRT up until now, switching over to HND in a month) and doing well since the NW days.
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FSDan
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:09 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
SEA-DFW makes sense for a carrier with a hub in SEA, I get it. But so does LAX-ORD for any carrier with a hub in LAX (I mean... even AS flies LAX-ORD...), doesn't mean Delta was willing to compete there either. DFW-SEA is a pretty obvious response from Delta.


I wouldn't be surprised to see DL flying LAX-ORD once they move into T5 at ORD and get access to a few more gates. Although they might need to wait for their LAX construction work to get further along as well, since I think they'll have a few gates rotating out of commission for a while... Like DFW, ORD is a really big outstation for DL (~60 peak daily departures, IIRC), and they serve it from all their hubs except LAX. They weren't afraid to jump into BOS-ORD or SEA-ORD, which are both plenty competitive.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
onwFan
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:18 pm

Lootess wrote:
I called this one, DL metal was coming back to route to retaliate. The good thing about DL is they don't need this route for connections unlike AA, that's what DL SEA-AMS is for.

flybry wrote:
Aceskywalker wrote:

I’d argue that DL will overtake AS in the PNW. Like what it did to AA in JFK.

DL has a massive operation that can subsidize growing SEA into its vision of a Asian gateway, and can even justify TPAC out of PDX. SEA is home to the newest DL jets with better product than either AS or AA offer, and the A220 is a weapon that can bust into fortress hubs profitably. JVs make a strong contender for TPAC and TATL flying with KE and VS respectively.

AS arguably made a mistake getting embroiled in the bloodbath that is intra-Californian flying and buying VX, with issues in SFO. They are struggling with MAX groundings and a questionable future for Airbus jets in their roster. Alliances are dead; AS can only do so much with alliances with JL/AA/BA versus joint ventures. Arguably AS frequent fliers had better choices pre-OW (SQ, EK, KE, LATAM).



I agree. Delta will eventually overtake Alaska in Seattle much like Delta has done to AA at JFK.


Airliners.net is basically:

2013: "Delta will get ran out by Alaska"
2020: "Delta will get ran out by Alaska"

Meanwhile Delta's profit coffers continue to get larger, and now the most profitable airline in the world.

Beggars can't be choosers. If anything AS was ran out of SLC.


The details are already there in what you just wrote: “DL doesn’t need the route for connections”. If they don’t need it for connections, do they need to run 3x daily on the route? I hardly think so- Someone asked me earlier for numbers and I don’t have passenger numbers to support this.

As far as I see it, this is an attempt by DL to have 2x daily year round service on the route. AA’s SEA-LHR is most probably year round, and BA will be running daily as well. DL wants to match the offer.

Since as you said, they are not going for connections, and as most people feel that 6x daily on the route doesn’t make sense; either VS’s seasonal 5x weekly is going away; or DL’s PDX-LHR is going away; or even both. I am not being pessimistic, this is just my pragmatic guess.

On a side note, I see PDX-CDG as a possibility for S21: they have a high chance of success on the route; plus they will then still have 2 flights to Europe from PDX.

I think these developments will overall be significantly beneficial to the PNW and a big change from everything being focused round LAX and SFO.
 
Prost
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:22 pm

I’m just a crew member based in Seattle. I’ve never heard anybody hinting at trying to dominate AS nor talking about AS with anything other than respect.
 
NYCVIE
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:40 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
n7371f wrote:
To the folks who make the decisions at DAL, SEA-DFW on the 220 has always been part of the expansion since the day the order presentation was made to the BoD. It was one of the featured routes presented where DAL believed it could enter a highly competitive market and using the 220, still fly it profitably. Not sure what's hilarious about that. Nor petty.


invertir wrote:
The SEA-DFW is hilariously petty, but that said, it's on a was A220 so the unit economics will be incredible. Won't take too many people on the plane to pay for it.

So to be clear... you're saying that when you personally saw the confidential Board of Directors deck on the Delta CS-100 order back in ~March/April of 2016, SEA-DFW was one of the routes listed.

And that now... ~2-3 weeks after the AA/AS announcement, SEA-DFW is announced... and it's not related to AA/AS? Four years later... It sure is a huge coincidence if it wasn't a petty response.
SEA-DFW makes sense for a carrier with a hub in SEA, I get it. But so does LAX-ORD for any carrier with a hub in LAX (I mean... even AS flies LAX-ORD...), doesn't mean Delta was willing to compete there either. DFW-SEA is a pretty obvious response from Delta.
Who knows why Delta chose to launch two routes with little feed on either end to compete against two carriers on each route with a LOT of feed on each end: SEA-LHR and SEA-DFW. If this is the Delta response, two new routes where they'll have the worst feed and frequency on each end (yes, even LHR since VS is 2x only seasonally)... good luck to them.


What feed does AS have on the SEA end (relative to a passenger arriving from DFW or LHR) that DL doesn't have? You're making it sound like DL has a miniscule operation at SEA - they can flow a DFW-SEA-Alaska/PNW connection just as AS can and they can also flow DFW-SEA-Asia connections. Similarly from LHR they can flow LHR-SEA-Alaska/PNW/Hawaii/California connections just as AS would.

Petty would be if they came in here guns blazing. and the lower frequency indicates this is just a route they need to be in and not aimed at taking AS or AA out.
 
JAMBOJET
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:54 pm

NYCVIE wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
n7371f wrote:
To the folks who make the decisions at DAL, SEA-DFW on the 220 has always been part of the expansion since the day the order presentation was made to the BoD. It was one of the featured routes presented where DAL believed it could enter a highly competitive market and using the 220, still fly it profitably. Not sure what's hilarious about that. Nor petty.



So to be clear... you're saying that when you personally saw the confidential Board of Directors deck on the Delta CS-100 order back in ~March/April of 2016, SEA-DFW was one of the routes listed.

And that now... ~2-3 weeks after the AA/AS announcement, SEA-DFW is announced... and it's not related to AA/AS? Four years later... It sure is a huge coincidence if it wasn't a petty response.
SEA-DFW makes sense for a carrier with a hub in SEA, I get it. But so does LAX-ORD for any carrier with a hub in LAX (I mean... even AS flies LAX-ORD...), doesn't mean Delta was willing to compete there either. DFW-SEA is a pretty obvious response from Delta.
Who knows why Delta chose to launch two routes with little feed on either end to compete against two carriers on each route with a LOT of feed on each end: SEA-LHR and SEA-DFW. If this is the Delta response, two new routes where they'll have the worst feed and frequency on each end (yes, even LHR since VS is 2x only seasonally)... good luck to them.


What feed does AS have on the SEA end (relative to a passenger arriving from DFW or LHR) that DL doesn't have? You're making it sound like DL has a miniscule operation at SEA - they can flow a DFW-SEA-Alaska/PNW connection just as AS can and they can also flow DFW-SEA-Asia connections. Similarly from LHR they can flow LHR-SEA-Alaska/PNW/Hawaii/California connections just as AS would.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle–Tacoma_International_Airport
~Twice as many seats on AS vs DL and I’ll let you count the destination difference. Absolute destinations difference isn’t huge, but it’s still a difference. Seats to those destinations is bigger on Alaska easily.
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:12 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
NYCVIE wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
Who knows why Delta chose to launch two routes with little feed on either end to compete against two carriers on each route with a LOT of feed on each end: SEA-LHR and SEA-DFW.


What feed does AS have on the SEA end (relative to a passenger arriving from DFW or LHR) that DL doesn't have? You're making it sound like DL has a miniscule operation at SEA - they can flow a DFW-SEA-Alaska/PNW connection just as AS can and they can also flow DFW-SEA-Asia connections. Similarly from LHR they can flow LHR-SEA-Alaska/PNW/Hawaii/California connections just as AS would.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle–Tacoma_International_Airport
~Twice as many seats on AS vs DL and I’ll let you count the destination difference. Absolute destinations difference isn’t huge, but it’s still a difference. Seats to those destinations is bigger on Alaska easily.


Just because AS has more feed, it doesn't equate to DL having "little feed" as you suggested. Sure, AS serves more destinations in the PNW that would logically connect to DFW or LHR over SEA, but what's the combined PDEW of WRG/EAT/PUW/HLN, etc. to these destinations? DL serves FAI, ANC, GEG, PDX, BOI, SMF, Hawai'i, etc. from SEA, which is where the lion's share of connecting passengers would likely be originating/terminating.

Additionally, if in the future DL needs to route more LHR/DFW-bound connections over SEA in order to supplement the O&D traffic they're able to pick up, they have more options for accommodating other passengers who have been connecting on these flights over their other hubs like SLC and MSP. For example, say DL wants to free up 10 more daily seats on a particular BOI-SEA flight that connects to the new SEA-LHR service. In order to do that, they may need to route some passengers who have been flying BOI-SEA-BOS, BOI-SEA-SNA, etc. over MSP and SLC, but they have the flexibility to do so.
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luckyone
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:29 pm

Prost wrote:
I’m just a crew member based in Seattle. I’ve never heard anybody hinting at trying to dominate AS nor talking about AS with anything other than respect.

Don't be daft and disrupt this middle school lunch drama with reality!!
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 293
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:41 pm

FSDan wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
NYCVIE wrote:

What feed does AS have on the SEA end (relative to a passenger arriving from DFW or LHR) that DL doesn't have? You're making it sound like DL has a miniscule operation at SEA - they can flow a DFW-SEA-Alaska/PNW connection just as AS can and they can also flow DFW-SEA-Asia connections. Similarly from LHR they can flow LHR-SEA-Alaska/PNW/Hawaii/California connections just as AS would.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle–Tacoma_International_Airport
~Twice as many seats on AS vs DL and I’ll let you count the destination difference. Absolute destinations difference isn’t huge, but it’s still a difference. Seats to those destinations is bigger on Alaska easily.


Just because AS has more feed, it doesn't equate to DL having "little feed" as you suggested. Sure, AS serves more destinations in the PNW that would logically connect to DFW or LHR over SEA, but what's the combined PDEW of WRG/EAT/PUW/HLN, etc. to these destinations? DL serves FAI, ANC, GEG, PDX, BOI, SMF, Hawai'i, etc. from SEA, which is where the lion's share of connecting passengers would likely be originating/terminating.

Additionally, if in the future DL needs to route more LHR/DFW-bound connections over SEA in order to supplement the O&D traffic they're able to pick up, they have more options for accommodating other passengers who have been connecting on these flights over their other hubs like SLC and MSP. For example, say DL wants to free up 10 more daily seats on a particular BOI-SEA flight that connects to the new SEA-LHR service. In order to do that, they may need to route some passengers who have been flying BOI-SEA-BOS, BOI-SEA-SNA, etc. over MSP and SLC, but they have the flexibility to do so.

While the “little” semantics game is just a blast to play, it’s clear that Delta’s feed is “little” compared to Number of seats to destinations from SEA, served by Delta or not, (Delta is half the market share of AS in Seattle) Vs As and certainly tiny compared to BA and AA at LHR and DFW, respectively.
 
tphuang
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:58 pm

FSDan wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
NYCVIE wrote:

What feed does AS have on the SEA end (relative to a passenger arriving from DFW or LHR) that DL doesn't have? You're making it sound like DL has a miniscule operation at SEA - they can flow a DFW-SEA-Alaska/PNW connection just as AS can and they can also flow DFW-SEA-Asia connections. Similarly from LHR they can flow LHR-SEA-Alaska/PNW/Hawaii/California connections just as AS would.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle–Tacoma_International_Airport
~Twice as many seats on AS vs DL and I’ll let you count the destination difference. Absolute destinations difference isn’t huge, but it’s still a difference. Seats to those destinations is bigger on Alaska easily.


Just because AS has more feed, it doesn't equate to DL having "little feed" as you suggested. Sure, AS serves more destinations in the PNW that would logically connect to DFW or LHR over SEA, but what's the combined PDEW of WRG/EAT/PUW/HLN, etc. to these destinations? DL serves FAI, ANC, GEG, PDX, BOI, SMF, Hawai'i, etc. from SEA, which is where the lion's share of connecting passengers would likely be originating/terminating.

Additionally, if in the future DL needs to route more LHR/DFW-bound connections over SEA in order to supplement the O&D traffic they're able to pick up, they have more options for accommodating other passengers who have been connecting on these flights over their other hubs like SLC and MSP. For example, say DL wants to free up 10 more daily seats on a particular BOI-SEA flight that connects to the new SEA-LHR service. In order to do that, they may need to route some passengers who have been flying BOI-SEA-BOS, BOI-SEA-SNA, etc. over MSP and SLC, but they have the flexibility to do so.


On the domestic routes I've looked at, DL connects just as much as AS does. But those are low yielding types. The problem with DL is that they simply don't have enough pricing power at SEA. You need pricing power to chase O&D.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:07 am

tphuang wrote:
FSDan wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle–Tacoma_International_Airport
~Twice as many seats on AS vs DL and I’ll let you count the destination difference. Absolute destinations difference isn’t huge, but it’s still a difference. Seats to those destinations is bigger on Alaska easily.


Just because AS has more feed, it doesn't equate to DL having "little feed" as you suggested. Sure, AS serves more destinations in the PNW that would logically connect to DFW or LHR over SEA, but what's the combined PDEW of WRG/EAT/PUW/HLN, etc. to these destinations? DL serves FAI, ANC, GEG, PDX, BOI, SMF, Hawai'i, etc. from SEA, which is where the lion's share of connecting passengers would likely be originating/terminating.

Additionally, if in the future DL needs to route more LHR/DFW-bound connections over SEA in order to supplement the O&D traffic they're able to pick up, they have more options for accommodating other passengers who have been connecting on these flights over their other hubs like SLC and MSP. For example, say DL wants to free up 10 more daily seats on a particular BOI-SEA flight that connects to the new SEA-LHR service. In order to do that, they may need to route some passengers who have been flying BOI-SEA-BOS, BOI-SEA-SNA, etc. over MSP and SLC, but they have the flexibility to do so.


On the domestic routes I've looked at, DL connects just as much as AS does. But those are low yielding types. The problem with DL is that they simply don't have enough pricing power at SEA. You need pricing power to chase O&D.


No...not even close. DL might have 40% to 50% of the connecting destinations as AS. AS, including SkyWest and Horizon, serves many more destinations from SEA than DL.
 
tphuang
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:15 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
FSDan wrote:

Just because AS has more feed, it doesn't equate to DL having "little feed" as you suggested. Sure, AS serves more destinations in the PNW that would logically connect to DFW or LHR over SEA, but what's the combined PDEW of WRG/EAT/PUW/HLN, etc. to these destinations? DL serves FAI, ANC, GEG, PDX, BOI, SMF, Hawai'i, etc. from SEA, which is where the lion's share of connecting passengers would likely be originating/terminating.

Additionally, if in the future DL needs to route more LHR/DFW-bound connections over SEA in order to supplement the O&D traffic they're able to pick up, they have more options for accommodating other passengers who have been connecting on these flights over their other hubs like SLC and MSP. For example, say DL wants to free up 10 more daily seats on a particular BOI-SEA flight that connects to the new SEA-LHR service. In order to do that, they may need to route some passengers who have been flying BOI-SEA-BOS, BOI-SEA-SNA, etc. over MSP and SLC, but they have the flexibility to do so.


On the domestic routes I've looked at, DL connects just as much as AS does. But those are low yielding types. The problem with DL is that they simply don't have enough pricing power at SEA. You need pricing power to chase O&D.


No...not even close. DL might have 40% to 50% of the connecting destinations as AS. AS, including SkyWest and Horizon, serves many more destinations from SEA than DL.


I posted the connection data here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1442129&start=50#p22057177
Feel free to take a look.
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:26 am

JAMBOJET wrote:
FSDan wrote:
Just because AS has more feed, it doesn't equate to DL having "little feed" as you suggested. Sure, AS serves more destinations in the PNW that would logically connect to DFW or LHR over SEA, but what's the combined PDEW of WRG/EAT/PUW/HLN, etc. to these destinations? DL serves FAI, ANC, GEG, PDX, BOI, SMF, Hawai'i, etc. from SEA, which is where the lion's share of connecting passengers would likely be originating/terminating.

While the “little” semantics game is just a blast to play, it’s clear that Delta’s feed is “little” compared to Number of seats to destinations from SEA, served by Delta or not, (Delta is half the market share of AS in Seattle) Vs As and certainly tiny compared to BA and AA at LHR and DFW, respectively.


Again, why are you comparing DL's feed to AS's feed? It only matters whether they have enough feed in absolute numbers to contribute to their new SEA-DFW and SEA-LHR flights. It doesn't matter if AS has 6x the feed of DL if DL still has enough to fill the connecting seats they want to fill. Yield is another matter, as tphuang alluded to a few posts above, but yield doesn't appear to have anything to do with the argument you were making, which was that DL doesn't have enough feed at SEA. They have plenty.
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FSDan
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:27 am

tphuang wrote:
On the domestic routes I've looked at, DL connects just as much as AS does. But those are low yielding types. The problem with DL is that they simply don't have enough pricing power at SEA. You need pricing power to chase O&D.


That's fair. My argument was simply regarding the volume of connections DL has available at SEA, not the yield quality of said connections.
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wedgetail737
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:36 am

tphuang wrote:
wedgetail737 wrote:
tphuang wrote:

On the domestic routes I've looked at, DL connects just as much as AS does. But those are low yielding types. The problem with DL is that they simply don't have enough pricing power at SEA. You need pricing power to chase O&D.


No...not even close. DL might have 40% to 50% of the connecting destinations as AS. AS, including SkyWest and Horizon, serves many more destinations from SEA than DL.


I posted the connection data here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1442129&start=50#p22057177
Feel free to take a look.


I see. You compared the routes that AS and DL share to see what kind of connection traffic each airline gets. Yes...that's fair. We were talking about two different things, apparently.

I would assume DL would substantial domestic connections. Otherwise, I don't think DL would have multiple connection banks to the various cities. DL's SEA hub isn't set up like PDX was back in the late 1980's.
 
NYCVIE
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Wed Mar 04, 2020 3:59 am

JAMBOJET wrote:
NYCVIE wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
So to be clear... you're saying that when you personally saw the confidential Board of Directors deck on the Delta CS-100 order back in ~March/April of 2016, SEA-DFW was one of the routes listed.

And that now... ~2-3 weeks after the AA/AS announcement, SEA-DFW is announced... and it's not related to AA/AS? Four years later... It sure is a huge coincidence if it wasn't a petty response.
SEA-DFW makes sense for a carrier with a hub in SEA, I get it. But so does LAX-ORD for any carrier with a hub in LAX (I mean... even AS flies LAX-ORD...), doesn't mean Delta was willing to compete there either. DFW-SEA is a pretty obvious response from Delta.
Who knows why Delta chose to launch two routes with little feed on either end to compete against two carriers on each route with a LOT of feed on each end: SEA-LHR and SEA-DFW. If this is the Delta response, two new routes where they'll have the worst feed and frequency on each end (yes, even LHR since VS is 2x only seasonally)... good luck to them.


What feed does AS have on the SEA end (relative to a passenger arriving from DFW or LHR) that DL doesn't have? You're making it sound like DL has a miniscule operation at SEA - they can flow a DFW-SEA-Alaska/PNW connection just as AS can and they can also flow DFW-SEA-Asia connections. Similarly from LHR they can flow LHR-SEA-Alaska/PNW/Hawaii/California connections just as AS would.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle–Tacoma_International_Airport
~Twice as many seats on AS vs DL and I’ll let you count the destination difference. Absolute destinations difference isn’t huge, but it’s still a difference. Seats to those destinations is bigger on Alaska easily.


Yes, I never said that DL even had a comparable number of SEATS to AS. If a passenger is flying LHR-SEA-PDX, for example, it wouldn't matter to them if AS had (hypothetically) 20x SEA-PDX and DL had 10x if both airlines could sell the connection. Why would they care if AS has hourly service if they aren't deciding between those flights? In that respect, DL does have the ability in SEA to feed the flights it needs to feed. Obviously AS will win on O&D.
 
questions
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:58 am

Prost wrote:
I’m just a crew member based in Seattle. I’ve never heard anybody hinting at trying to dominate AS nor talking about AS with anything other than respect.


Thanks. This is probably pretty darn close to reality.
 
Ishrion
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Delta Launching Daily SEA-LHR from April 1, 2021

Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:03 pm

Delta has finally loaded its Seattle to London Heathrow flight: https://crankyflier.com/2020/10/19/jetb ... est-grows/

In March 2020, Delta announced it would launch SEA-LHR some time in 2021, likely in response to AA adding the route. This past weekend, Delta opened the flight for booking. The daily SEA-LHR flight begins on April 1, 2021 with the Boeing 767-400. Currently, this complements Virgin Atlantic's 11x weekly LHR-SEA.

American's new SEA-LHR flight begins on March 27, 2021. Despite COVID, Delta's still planning to introduce additional capacity onto this route.

AA/BA will have 3x daily flights and DL/VS will have 18x weekly. Norwegian is likely suspending its LGW-SEA flight.

Is this really a good idea for Delta to add more capacity during these times? Or will Virgin Atlantic likely reduce frequencies?
Last edited by Ishrion on Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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klm617
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Re: Delta Launching Daily SEA-LHR from April 1, 2021

Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:35 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Delta has finally loaded its Seattle to London Heathrow flight: https://crankyflier.com/2020/10/19/jetb ... est-grows/

In March 2020, Delta announced it would launch SEA-LHR some time in 2021, likely in response to AA adding the route. This past weekend, Delta opened the flight for booking. The daily SEA-LHR flight begins on April 1, 2021 with the Boeing 767-400. Currently, this complements Virgin Atlantic's 11x weekly LHR-SEA.

American's new SEA-LHR flight begins on March 27, 2021. Despite COVID, Delta's still planning to introduce additional capacity onto this route.

AA/BA will have 3x daily flights and DL/VS will have 18x weekly. Norwegian is likely suspending its LGW-SEA flight.

Is this really a good idea for Delta to add more capacity during these times? Or will Virgin Atlantic likely reduce frequencies?


I don't see anything in that article that says flights are loaded for March 2021.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Ishrion
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Re: Delta Launching Daily SEA-LHR from April 1, 2021

Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:37 pm

klm617 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Delta has finally loaded its Seattle to London Heathrow flight: https://crankyflier.com/2020/10/19/jetb ... est-grows/

In March 2020, Delta announced it would launch SEA-LHR some time in 2021, likely in response to AA adding the route. This past weekend, Delta opened the flight for booking. The daily SEA-LHR flight begins on April 1, 2021 with the Boeing 767-400. Currently, this complements Virgin Atlantic's 11x weekly LHR-SEA.

American's new SEA-LHR flight begins on March 27, 2021. Despite COVID, Delta's still planning to introduce additional capacity onto this route.

AA/BA will have 3x daily flights and DL/VS will have 18x weekly. Norwegian is likely suspending its LGW-SEA flight.

Is this really a good idea for Delta to add more capacity during these times? Or will Virgin Atlantic likely reduce frequencies?


I don't see anything in that article that says flights are loaded for March 2021.


Lastly, next summer, Atlanta – London drops from 2x daily to 1x daily while Delta starts 1x daily Seattle – London. The problem is, I don’t know if this is just a swap with Virgin Atlantic or not. We might simply see Virgin move an airplane from Seattle to Atlanta in a future schedule change to even things out.


Delta's bookings show SEA-LHR available from April 1, 2021.
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:39 pm

Lots of options next summer for NR's with all these flights to LHR! ;) We just need the UK to open up to travel.
 
onwFan
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:19 pm

For a route currently running at 3x weekly, it sounds ridiculous that carriers would plan 6x daily for S21. But, I guess it doesn’t really matter, because by now everyone is aware of the fact that even their flight next month is up in the air. That being said, DL has dropped ~4x daily flights into LHR (SLC, PDX, and additional 1x ATL & 1x DTW) from their summer schedule in S21. So they need to fly something unless the slot waiver keeps extending; as VS can adjust the destinations based on demand, like they did with the Pak routes...
 
kavok
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:27 pm

I can’t see DL/VS flying SEA-LHR essentially 3x daily in summer 2021. Even if a vaccine becomes available early in 2021, there wouldn’t seem to be enough demand to justify 3x daily. If DL is intended to fly the route (as the available booking implies), to me that implies 1 of 3 things:

1- DL is concerned VS might not be around next summer, and wants to make sure the route is covered, and/or

2- VS will be dropping at least 1 of their 2x SEA-LHR routes.

My guess is that with DL also dropping LHR-PDX, LHR-SLC, and the second LHR-DTW frequency for 2021, that DL needed to pick up at least one of VS’s USA-LHR routes in order to keep the JV balanced metal-wise.
Last edited by kavok on Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
AC4500
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:34 pm

onwFan wrote:
For a route currently running at 3x weekly, it sounds ridiculous that carriers would plan 6x daily for S21. But, I guess it doesn’t really matter, because by now everyone is aware of the fact that even their flight next month is up in the air. That being said, DL has dropped ~4x daily flights into LHR (SLC, PDX, and additional 1x ATL & 1x DTW) from their summer schedule in S21. So they need to fly something unless the slot waiver keeps extending; as VS can adjust the destinations based on demand, like they did with the Pak routes...


Since this SEA-LHR route will use the 767-400 (which was what PDX-LHR was slated to use in S20 pre-COVID), I think it's safe to say that PDX-LHR is gone for good. Maybe BA will resume their initial plans to start that route, but I seriously doubt it will happen in S21.

Anyhow, I certainly agree that there's just no way that the demand for SEA-LHR will reach 6x daily flights by S21, but if DL wants to continue burning their money by defending their SEA turf against AS/AA, then let them have at it, I guess...
 
kavok
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:06 pm

Not saying they will but... if LHR decided to end the slot waivers and reinstate the use-it-or-lose-it policy for summer ‘21 ... I have to believe DL would fly the routes, even at a loss.

Acknowledging that bankruptcies may lead to LHR slot availability on the market, as a value proposition, the long term value of holding onto your (diminished in value) LHR slots is still worth one summer of money losing flights to DL.
 
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klm617
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:28 pm

kavok wrote:
Not saying they will but... if LHR decided to end the slot waivers and reinstate the use-it-or-lose-it policy for summer ‘21 ... I have to believe DL would fly the routes, even at a loss.

Acknowledging that bankruptcies may lead to LHR slot availability on the market, as a value proposition, the long term value of holding onto your (diminished in value) LHR slots is still worth one summer of money losing flights to DL.


We all know SEA-LHR is not going to operate at almost 3 daily VS/DL in Summer of 2021. In good times Delta didn't even serve the market on it's own mental. These are certainly just place holders and a non story we are talking about 6 months away when schedules change almost weekly. Why crankyflier sees this as not worthy is beyond me.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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bluefltspecial
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Re: Delta Launching Daily SEA-LHR from April 1, 2021

Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:45 pm

Not to hijack the thread, but when did DL discontinue SEA-LHR?

I flew Delta in Delta One (maybe still BizElite then?) on this route with my partner in 2014ish to visit family in London, it was on a 767 but still a nice ride for an 8ish hour flight over at the time. Was this passed onto VS to operate or did they just discontinue the route?

Ishrion wrote:
Norwegian is likely suspending its LGW-SEA flight.


Correct.
As of the last thing I read, Norwegian was only planning on operating to "core" non-seasonal markets in Spring 2021,

LGW-BOS/JFK/LAX/MIA
CDG-JFK/LAX

No SEA service planned.

But we all know that could change at the drop of a hat with Covid.
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Ishrion
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Re: Delta Launching Daily SEA-LHR from April 1, 2021

Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:00 pm

bluefltspecial wrote:
Not to hijack the thread, but when did DL discontinue SEA-LHR?

I flew Delta in Delta One (maybe still BizElite then?) on this route with my partner in 2014ish to visit family in London, it was on a 767 but still a nice ride for an 8ish hour flight over at the time. Was this passed onto VS to operate or did they just discontinue the route?



I think March 2017? Delta launched PDX-LHR and gave LHR-SEA to VS.
 
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klm617
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Re: Delta Launching Daily SEA-LHR from April 1, 2021

Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:25 pm

Ishrion wrote:
bluefltspecial wrote:
Not to hijack the thread, but when did DL discontinue SEA-LHR?

I flew Delta in Delta One (maybe still BizElite then?) on this route with my partner in 2014ish to visit family in London, it was on a 767 but still a nice ride for an 8ish hour flight over at the time. Was this passed onto VS to operate or did they just discontinue the route?



I think March 2017? Delta launched PDX-LHR and gave LHR-SEA to VS.


Not true Delta added a second DTW-LHR flight on it's own metal and gave SEA-LHR to Virgin. The Detroit and Seattle frequencies were swapped Virgin serving Seattle had nothing to do with the Portland London route.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Ishrion
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Re: Delta Launching Daily SEA-LHR from April 1, 2021

Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:32 pm

klm617 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
bluefltspecial wrote:
Not to hijack the thread, but when did DL discontinue SEA-LHR?

I flew Delta in Delta One (maybe still BizElite then?) on this route with my partner in 2014ish to visit family in London, it was on a 767 but still a nice ride for an 8ish hour flight over at the time. Was this passed onto VS to operate or did they just discontinue the route?



I think March 2017? Delta launched PDX-LHR and gave LHR-SEA to VS.


Not true Delta added a second DTW-LHR flight on it's own metal and gave SEA-LHR to Virgin. The Detroit and Seattle frequencies were swapped Virgin serving Seattle had nothing to do with the Portland London route.


Delta's 2016 announcement focused on SEA/PDX only, nothing with DTW.

DL launched PDX-LHR, VS took over LHR-SEA.

Beginning March 26, 2017, Virgin Atlantic will fly between Seattle-Tacoma International Airport and London-Heathrow, replacing the flight currently operated by Delta. Along with the swap in Seattle, Delta will launch seasonal service from Portland to London, Portland's first and only flight to the U.K


https://news.delta.com/delta-virgin-atl ... on-service

Delta did take over a DTW frequency, but the original announcement was about PDX/SEA.
 
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klm617
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Re: Delta Launching Daily SEA-LHR from April 1, 2021

Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:52 pm

Ishrion wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:

I think March 2017? Delta launched PDX-LHR and gave LHR-SEA to VS.


Not true Delta added a second DTW-LHR flight on it's own metal and gave SEA-LHR to Virgin. The Detroit and Seattle frequencies were swapped Virgin serving Seattle had nothing to do with the Portland London route.


Delta's 2016 announcement focused on SEA/PDX only, nothing with DTW.

DL launched PDX-LHR, VS took over LHR-SEA.

Beginning March 26, 2017, Virgin Atlantic will fly between Seattle-Tacoma International Airport and London-Heathrow, replacing the flight currently operated by Delta. Along with the swap in Seattle, Delta will launch seasonal service from Portland to London, Portland's first and only flight to the U.K


https://news.delta.com/delta-virgin-atl ... on-service

Delta did take over a DTW frequency, but the original announcement was about PDX/SEA.


Correct but SEA got VS because they swapped with DTW on the second rotation not because PDX got the Delta flight. Portland had nothing to do with Seattle getting Virgin service.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
alfa164
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Re: Delta Launching Daily SEA-LHR from April 1, 2021

Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:11 pm

Ishrion wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
I think March 2017? Delta launched PDX-LHR and gave LHR-SEA to VS.

Not true Delta added a second DTW-LHR flight on it's own metal and gave SEA-LHR to Virgin. The Detroit and Seattle frequencies were swapped Virgin serving Seattle had nothing to do with the Portland London route.

Delta's 2016 announcement focused on SEA/PDX only, nothing with DTW.
DL launched PDX-LHR, VS took over LHR-SEA.
Beginning March 26, 2017, Virgin Atlantic will fly between Seattle-Tacoma International Airport and London-Heathrow, replacing the flight currently operated by Delta. Along with the swap in Seattle, Delta will launch seasonal service from Portland to London, Portland's first and only flight to the U.K

https://news.delta.com/delta-virgin-atl ... on-service
Delta did take over a DTW frequency, but the original announcement was about PDX/SEA.


You fail to realize: everything revolves around Detroit...

:roll:
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jayunited
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:38 am

kavok wrote:
Not saying they will but... if LHR decided to end the slot waivers and reinstate the use-it-or-lose-it policy for summer ‘21 ... I have to believe DL would fly the routes, even at a loss.

Acknowledging that bankruptcies may lead to LHR slot availability on the market, as a value proposition, the long term value of holding onto your (diminished in value) LHR slots is still worth one summer of money losing flights to DL.


Exactly!!!

If there is no waiver extension beyond the current limit, then the 80/20 rule for LHR goes back into effect. This won't just effect DL, without a waiver all airlines that want to keep their current slot would have to utilize 80% of those slots or run the risk of loosing them.

Spring/summer 2021 will highlight just how seriously some countries are about cutting carbon emissions or if they are full of ****. With LHR slots being so valuable many airlines if forced will fly empty aircraft just to hit their 80% usage rate, even if it means taking a loss. It will be interesting to see if there is a relaxation of the 80/20 rule for next year since we know demand will not be anywhere close to 2019 levels.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:17 am

jayunited wrote:
kavok wrote:
Not saying they will but... if LHR decided to end the slot waivers and reinstate the use-it-or-lose-it policy for summer ‘21 ... I have to believe DL would fly the routes, even at a loss.

Acknowledging that bankruptcies may lead to LHR slot availability on the market, as a value proposition, the long term value of holding onto your (diminished in value) LHR slots is still worth one summer of money losing flights to DL.


Exactly!!!

If there is no waiver extension beyond the current limit, then the 80/20 rule for LHR goes back into effect. This won't just effect DL, without a waiver all airlines that want to keep their current slot would have to utilize 80% of those slots or run the risk of loosing them.

Spring/summer 2021 will highlight just how seriously some countries are about cutting carbon emissions or if they are full of ****. With LHR slots being so valuable many airlines if forced will fly empty aircraft just to hit their 80% usage rate, even if it means taking a loss. It will be interesting to see if there is a relaxation of the 80/20 rule for next year since we know demand will not be anywhere close to 2019 levels.


Depending on which airline actually owns the slots (IIRC, not all are actually DL), I think we could see some extra AF/KLM flights for utilization. That is, DL can fully utilize its own, but others revert to AF/KLM to use temporarily.

Does someone have a slot breakdown?
 
Coexstud
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:02 am

flymco753 wrote:
Woah, this market is going to be way too saturated. I wonder who busts first.

My guesses are VA as they are cash strappped AA and BA Won’t as they are fed by AS and Horizon airlines feeding both
 
FSDan
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Re: Delta Launching Daily SEA-LHR from April 1, 2021

Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:06 am

klm617 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
klm617 wrote:

Not true Delta added a second DTW-LHR flight on it's own metal and gave SEA-LHR to Virgin. The Detroit and Seattle frequencies were swapped Virgin serving Seattle had nothing to do with the Portland London route.


Delta's 2016 announcement focused on SEA/PDX only, nothing with DTW.

DL launched PDX-LHR, VS took over LHR-SEA.

Beginning March 26, 2017, Virgin Atlantic will fly between Seattle-Tacoma International Airport and London-Heathrow, replacing the flight currently operated by Delta. Along with the swap in Seattle, Delta will launch seasonal service from Portland to London, Portland's first and only flight to the U.K


https://news.delta.com/delta-virgin-atl ... on-service

Delta did take over a DTW frequency, but the original announcement was about PDX/SEA.


Correct but SEA got VS because they swapped with DTW on the second rotation not because PDX got the Delta flight. Portland had nothing to do with Seattle getting Virgin service.


I'm pretty sure that when the PDX-LHR flight started it was 4x weekly PDX-LHR and the other 3x weekly went to the second DTW-LHR frequency. Both flights used the same LHR slot for a combined daily flight out of LHR.
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clrd4t8koff
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:29 am

Coexstud wrote:
My guesses are VA as they are cash strappped AA and BA Won’t as they are fed by AS and Horizon airlines feeding both


VA = Virgin Australia.

Do you mean VS - Virgin Atlantic?
 
bcbhokie
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:49 am

If SEA-LHR loses one of the two carriers, I hope it's VS and that Delta takes over the route. The renovated 767-400 is a nice product - not quite suites, but way better than the 767-300. And the VS 787 is an absolute travesty in comparison; it won't be missed in any class of service.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:19 pm

It's hard to conceive of a situation where DL is better off without VS than with it (speaking generally of LON services and not just SEA specifically). Yes, DL may have plenty of widebodies and pilots for the next ~two years to operate any London routes itself. It might even be able to lease enough AF/KL slots while their traffic rebuilds. But DL would still be lacking codeshare and the stronger UK point of sale revenues. IMHO DL could never make LAS-LON work (for example) without the big number of UK leisure travelers.
 
ArcticSEA
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Re: Delta Announces SEA-LHR For 2021

Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:44 pm

This route has came and went multiple times. It was originally the NWA106 back in ~2008 time frame.

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