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The787Driver
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RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:09 pm

Good morning all

I’ve been speaking with a well respected colleague of mine, who has informed me that 5 of Jet Airways 77W’s which were put into storage when the company went into administration, will find a home with a European carrier 4Q20.

He never gave a name, only that they are being lined up for an airline.

A difficult one to work out who would need them, or want to take them.

T787D
 
AV8AJET
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:22 pm

Wasn't there a rumor of KLM taking one or some of them?
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VSMUT
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:41 pm

AV8AJET wrote:
Wasn't there a rumor of KLM taking one or some of them?


Just one, the one parked in Amsterdam. But if they are going to go through the effort of properly refurbishing one, they might as well set up a line to do 5.

It would make sense for KLM. 5 more would mean all 747s get replaced by 777-300ERs, while the remaining 10 787-10 orders get to replace most of the A330s. I can't really see who else it could be. Swiss has 5 A340s left, but they are refurbishing those. Alternatively we are way out there with a startup, or Austrian Airlines or something.
 
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:52 pm

Didn't BA want some more? I know they have the 3 due but I'm sure they wanted more iirc
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Iloveboeing
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:06 pm

Would DL be interested? They are the only one of the U.S. Big Three that do not operate the 77W. The 77W is a cargo carrying cash cow so I'd suspect it'd be profitable for them.
 
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:11 pm

About the only thing more stale and cliché than asking if DL will buy whatever used plane happens to be out there is someone saying Iran could use these planes.
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Antarius
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:14 pm

Iloveboeing wrote:
Would DL be interested? They are the only one of the U.S. Big Three that do not operate the 77W. The 77W is a cargo carrying cash cow so I'd suspect it'd be profitable for them.


I doubt DL is going to introduce a tiny subfleet of 77Ws.
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:19 pm

Iloveboeing wrote:
Would DL be interested? They are the only one of the U.S. Big Three that do not operate the 77W. The 77W is a cargo carrying cash cow so I'd suspect it'd be profitable for them.

Since when is Delta a European carrier :roll:
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:19 pm

Antarius wrote:
Iloveboeing wrote:
Would DL be interested? They are the only one of the U.S. Big Three that do not operate the 77W. The 77W is a cargo carrying cash cow so I'd suspect it'd be profitable for them.


I doubt DL is going to introduce a tiny subfleet of 77Ws.


Not after they've complained about the small size of their existing widebody subfleets. I don't see DL chasing cargo revenues, either; these have shrunk (relatively) to be wholly incidental to the passenger ops.
 
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:25 pm

I'm sure BA, KL, AF could all use them. LX more of a long shot unless they want more than what they have recently received. OS probably needs something smaller.
 
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:50 pm

Air Atlanta Icelandic are phasing out their 747-400s and have stated they'll be replaced by A332s and 77Ws. Sounds like a somewhat more plausible suggestion than what has already been put forward, particularly the geographically challenged idea of DL.
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peterinlisbon
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:50 pm

It's probably Ryanair. They will start transatlantic service with 500-seat 777-300s. £99 London STN to New York (Hartford) and Los Angeles (San Bernadino).
 
PHLCVGAMTK
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:07 pm

Surprised to not see VS mentioned. Yes, they have A35Ks lined up to replace their A346s and B744s, but they're not afraid of small subfleets, and they may be looking for expansion opportunities, backfilling MAN from the demise of Thomas Cook, or to South Asia after the demise of 9W (and keeping up that network both ex-LON and ex-MAN).
 
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:00 pm

PHLCVGAMTK wrote:
Surprised to not see VS mentioned. Yes, they have A35Ks lined up to replace their A346s and B744s, but they're not afraid of small subfleets, and they may be looking for expansion opportunities, backfilling MAN from the demise of Thomas Cook, or to South Asia after the demise of 9W (and keeping up that network both ex-LON and ex-MAN).

VS has gone through financial hardships over many years. DL and the North Atlantic focus have brought discipline. I don't see VS taking the ex-9W 77Ws.

They have older planes that are not leaving yet. They have 789s. They have A332s and A333s. They are receiving A35Ks; the first will be "business-configured" and the last ones will be "leisure-configured", but in any case they both have a lot of seats and have to be understood as VS's choice of V.L.A. They are also receiving in the future several A339s. LHR-CPT and MAN-DEL were added.

On the other hand, they suspended PVG because of the coronavirus thing until April 19 (wanna bet the suspension will be extended?). They also cancelled some HKG flights during March (I would not be surprised if some April flights are also cancelled). GRU has been postponed. It does not look any additional expansion is coming. Certainly not to Asia.

What would VS do with a small fleet of 77Ws? If they find themselves in need of more planes (for expansion or for a faster replacement of older planes, meaning not just A346s and 744s, but also A332s and A333s), they can always get more 789s, A339s and/or A35Ks.
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:00 pm

peterinlisbon wrote:
It's probably Ryanair. They will start transatlantic service with 500-seat 777-300s. £99 London STN to New York (Hartford) and Los Angeles (San Bernadino).


Ya'll know that Ryanair's epic fleet renewal won't be with 737 MAXes but with 777X's and the 777-300s will just be the stepping stone for this project
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usa330300
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:04 pm

The787Driver wrote:
Good morning all

I’ve been speaking with a well respected colleague of mine, who has informed me that 5 of Jet Airways 77W’s which were put into storage when the company went into administration, will find a home with a European carrier 4Q20.

He never gave a name, only that they are being lined up for an airline.

A difficult one to work out who would need them, or want to take them.

T787D

They are parting out the 77Ws? What parts are finding a new home?
 
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:05 pm

VSMUT wrote:
It would make sense for KLM. 5 more would mean all 747s get replaced by 777-300ERs, while the remaining 10 787-10 orders get to replace most of the A330s.


Since KLM started phasing out their 747's, they already received four more 77W's. They have two more new ones on order. KLM had just seven full pax 747's.
 
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:30 pm

Depending on your definition of Europe, they could be finding a home with one of the Russian charter airlines.
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airbus4eva
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:57 pm

i know LOT polish airlines planned to take some used 777s after the summer due to having to use ACMI all the time for their grounded 787s

maybe them?
 
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:08 am

Antarius wrote:
Iloveboeing wrote:
Would DL be interested? They are the only one of the U.S. Big Three that do not operate the 77W. The 77W is a cargo carrying cash cow so I'd suspect it'd be profitable for them.


I doubt DL is going to introduce a tiny subfleet of 77Ws.


With all the 777s going up recently, Etihad, Alitalia and now Jet Airways, I really would love to see DL take on some additional 777 metal. I really do think they would be interested if it were not for the current corona virus situation.
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itisi
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:32 am

Surprised if any airline needs any new aircraft this year... the way things are going....
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:13 am

I would hazard a guess these are going to someone like Nordwind, they’ve been acquiring a few 77Ws lately, so it’s possible they would pick up a few more if they were cheap. And they can very much be classed as European.
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:31 am

thewizbizman wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Iloveboeing wrote:
Would DL be interested? They are the only one of the U.S. Big Three that do not operate the 77W. The 77W is a cargo carrying cash cow so I'd suspect it'd be profitable for them.


I doubt DL is going to introduce a tiny subfleet of 77Ws.


With all the 777s going up recently, Etihad, Alitalia and now Jet Airways, I really would love to see DL take on some additional 777 metal. I really do think they would be interested if it were not for the current corona virus situation.

Seriously people just can't give this a break. When's DL's last time grabbing a used widebody and introduced into the fleet? 20 years ago. And they have all the A330-900 and A350-900 coming online that can do just as good as 777.

They had a lot of chances buying used 777s over the past ten yearsif they're really needed. When SQ, MH, EY (77L), AI, EK, CX & BR all having 777s retired, with many of them aren't old at all and with good maintenance record, DL choose not to buy them. And that contains ALL 777 models.

The answer is right there.

Michael
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:55 am

usa330300 wrote:
They are parting out the 77Ws? What parts are finding a new home?


Any and all. I do not know if anyone is parting those out. But they would not have trouble finding a home. The 77W is on the more popular end of the Twin Aisle spectrum, and being relatively young, most of them will be around quite a while. It will not be hard to imagine that the spares market is immense.

eamondzhang wrote:

Seriously people just can't give this a break. When's DL's last time grabbing a used widebody and introduced into the fleet? 20 years ago. And they have all the A330-900 and A350-900 coming online that can do just as good as 777.

They had a lot of chances buying used 777s over the past ten yearsif they're really needed. When SQ, MH, EY (77L), AI, EK, CX & BR all having 777s retired, with many of them aren't old at all and with good maintenance record, DL choose not to buy them. And that contains ALL 777 models.

The answer is right there.

Michael


Agree with both your point and your emphasis thereon. DL have not purchased a used Twin Aisle in decades -unless you want to count mergers. Apart from the 767 you are mentioning, the A300/310s they got from PAA -when they also got route authorities with them- is probably the last time. It really is not a thing they do.

If they want 77Ws that badly, I am reasonably sure BCA will hold the line for them -though not forever. They could have them in a reasonable time period. But, as with what you said, I am not seeing real interest there.

inkjet7 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
It would make sense for KLM. 5 more would mean all 747s get replaced by 777-300ERs, while the remaining 10 787-10 orders get to replace most of the A330s.


Since KLM started phasing out their 747's, they already received four more 77W's. They have two more new ones on order. KLM had just seven full pax 747's.


I still think this makes sense for KL. Inasmuch as it makes sense for them to be the choice here. As mentioned, setting up a line for five conversions is about the same effort as for one. As the 74Ms and 744s pertain to this, it is worthy of mention that the 77W has essentially become the new 747-Combi. Below decks cargo is about equal to what they are able to do with those things, so it actually is a good 1:1. If they wind up with a few extra, this is fine too. AMS can handle that.


Rossiya747 wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
It's probably Ryanair. They will start transatlantic service with 500-seat 777-300s. £99 London STN to New York (Hartford) and Los Angeles (San Bernadino).


Ya'll know that Ryanair's epic fleet renewal won't be with 737 MAXes but with 777X's and the 777-300s will just be the stepping stone for this project


Beat me too it!
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dtw2hyd
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:01 am

eamondzhang wrote:
They had a lot of chances buying used 777s over the past ten yearsif they're really needed. When SQ, MH, EY (77L), AI, EK, CX & BR all having 777s retired, with many of them aren't old at all and with good maintenance record, DL choose not to buy them. And that contains ALL 777 models.


There aren't many retired 77Ws. 772 are scrap metal, 77L has niche issues.

Only buyer who kicked the tires would know the actual condition and record keeping, but these being well-shamed frames (on the internet in regards to mx and logs) it will be a sweet deal.

Similar rumors were rampant on a.net about Air Canada's interest in Air India's 77Ls. In fact, AC offered a FMV for a niche plane, AI didn't realize the offer was fair and refused, sold them for far less two years later.
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eamondzhang
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:08 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
They had a lot of chances buying used 777s over the past ten yearsif they're really needed. When SQ, MH, EY (77L), AI, EK, CX & BR all having 777s retired, with many of them aren't old at all and with good maintenance record, DL choose not to buy them. And that contains ALL 777 models.


There aren't many retired 77Ws. 772 are scrap metal, 77L has niche issues.

Only buyer who kicked the tires would know the actual condition and record keeping, but these being well-shamed frames (on the internet in regards to mx and logs) it will be a sweet deal.

Similar rumors were rampant on a.net about Air Canada's interest in Air India's 77Ls. In fact, AC offered a FMV for a niche plane, AI didn't realize the offer was fair and refused, sold them for far less two years later.

Quite a few actually with EK and CX retiring more this year.

772ER (especially SQ and MH samples) and 77L are the type DL has already however they choose to not grab any second hand copies (other than for parts - the sole MH birds)

There's a reason behind this.

Michael
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:20 am

I can only see it being British Airways (to increase the mid-J fleet with first class) or KLM if major. A real wild-card could be Azur Air, Royal Flight, or Nordwind...Nordwind operates 486-seat frames, Royal Flight 492, and Azur Air with a staggering 531 seats on 3 of its 4 B77Ws (the fourth kept its Emirates configuration). (Azur Air acquired four ex-Emirates B77Ws on lease and will soon induct an ex-Cathay Pacific B77W on lease with 531 seats; the former Spirit of Hong Kong B77W ended up with Nordwind.)
 
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:33 am

eamondzhang wrote:
thewizbizman wrote:
Antarius wrote:

I doubt DL is going to introduce a tiny subfleet of 77Ws.


With all the 777s going up recently, Etihad, Alitalia and now Jet Airways, I really would love to see DL take on some additional 777 metal. I really do think they would be interested if it were not for the current corona virus situation.

Seriously people just can't give this a break. When's DL's last time grabbing a used widebody and introduced into the fleet? 20 years ago. And they have all the A330-900 and A350-900 coming online that can do just as good as 777.

They had a lot of chances buying used 777s over the past ten yearsif they're really needed. When SQ, MH, EY (77L), AI, EK, CX & BR all having 777s retired, with many of them aren't old at all and with good maintenance record, DL choose not to buy them. And that contains ALL 777 models.

The answer is right there.

Michael



Yes, but the 77W can fly further with a greater cargo carrying capacity. I just think it would be an opportunity for DL, from say, ATL-ICN (after the coronavirus debacle dies down). Airlines have historically loved the 77W because it is such a capable aircraft. Last time I checked, they'll be flying the 77L JFK-BOM, so there's room for a 77W on there in the future, IMO.
 
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Antaras
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:39 am

I thought that GECAS will acquire some of them and convert those frames into freighters????
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Antarius
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:27 am

Iloveboeing wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
thewizbizman wrote:

With all the 777s going up recently, Etihad, Alitalia and now Jet Airways, I really would love to see DL take on some additional 777 metal. I really do think they would be interested if it were not for the current corona virus situation.

Seriously people just can't give this a break. When's DL's last time grabbing a used widebody and introduced into the fleet? 20 years ago. And they have all the A330-900 and A350-900 coming online that can do just as good as 777.

So
They had a lot of chances buying used 777s over the past ten yearsif they're really needed. When SQ, MH, EY (77L), AI, EK, CX & BR all having 777s retired, with many of them aren't old at all and with good maintenance record, DL choose not to buy them. And that contains ALL 777 models.

The answer is right there.

Michael



Yes, but the 77W can fly further with a greater cargo carrying capacity. I just think it would be an opportunity for DL, from say, ATL-ICN (after the coronavirus debacle dies down). Airlines have historically loved the 77W because it is such a capable aircraft. Last time I checked, they'll be flying the 77L JFK-BOM, so there's room for a 77W on there in the future, IMO.


So can the a380, 748i and 789. DL has not shown any inclination to add new fleet types, especially in such small numbers.

They have the current batch of 777s and are adding a359s as their large longhaul replacement. Why muddy the waters with 5 77Ws.
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eamondzhang
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:40 am

Iloveboeing wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
thewizbizman wrote:

With all the 777s going up recently, Etihad, Alitalia and now Jet Airways, I really would love to see DL take on some additional 777 metal. I really do think they would be interested if it were not for the current corona virus situation.

Seriously people just can't give this a break. When's DL's last time grabbing a used widebody and introduced into the fleet? 20 years ago. And they have all the A330-900 and A350-900 coming online that can do just as good as 777.

They had a lot of chances buying used 777s over the past ten yearsif they're really needed. When SQ, MH, EY (77L), AI, EK, CX & BR all having 777s retired, with many of them aren't old at all and with good maintenance record, DL choose not to buy them. And that contains ALL 777 models.

The answer is right there.

Michael



Yes, but the 77W can fly further with a greater cargo carrying capacity. I just think it would be an opportunity for DL, from say, ATL-ICN (after the coronavirus debacle dies down). Airlines have historically loved the 77W because it is such a capable aircraft. Last time I checked, they'll be flying the 77L JFK-BOM, so there's room for a 77W on there in the future, IMO.

Cargo is the last thing DL cares at the moment in terms of revenue - less than 1% last time I heard. Fly further argument can be applied to A359 and 77L as well - both of them flies further than 77W. So these arguments doesnt really stand.

Michael
 
metroline2006
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:57 am

CWL757 wrote:
Didn't BA want some more? I know they have the 3 due but I'm sure they wanted more iirc


I’m pretty sure the order for 3 was increased to 4 in November 18 and all are due in 2020 the first being about June / July time
 
XRadar98
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:36 am

I think Iran could use them.
 
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:11 am

airbus4eva wrote:
i know LOT polish airlines planned to take some used 777s after the summer due to having to use ACMI all the time for their grounded 787s

maybe them?


No, LOT is getting 4 777-200ERs. They are the ex-Singapore examples that have been drifting about as temporary RR 787 replacements.
 
Flanker7
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:46 am

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
usa330300 wrote:
They are parting out the 77Ws? What parts are finding a new home?


Any and all. I do not know if anyone is parting those out. But they would not have trouble finding a home. The 77W is on the more popular end of the Twin Aisle spectrum, and being relatively young, most of them will be around quite a while. It will not be hard to imagine that the spares market is immense.

eamondzhang wrote:

Seriously people just can't give this a break. When's DL's last time grabbing a used widebody and introduced into the fleet? 20 years ago. And they have all the A330-900 and A350-900 coming online that can do just as good as 777.

They had a lot of chances buying used 777s over the past ten yearsif they're really needed. When SQ, MH, EY (77L), AI, EK, CX & BR all having 777s retired, with many of them aren't old at all and with good maintenance record, DL choose not to buy them. And that contains ALL 777 models.

The answer is right there.

Michael


Agree with both your point and your emphasis thereon. DL have not purchased a used Twin Aisle in decades -unless you want to count mergers. Apart from the 767 you are mentioning, the A300/310s they got from PAA -when they also got route authorities with them- is probably the last time. It really is not a thing they do.

If they want 77Ws that badly, I am reasonably sure BCA will hold the line for them -though not forever. They could have them in a reasonable time period. But, as with what you said, I am not seeing real interest there.

inkjet7 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
It would make sense for KLM. 5 more would mean all 747s get replaced by 777-300ERs, while the remaining 10 787-10 orders get to replace most of the A330s.


Since KLM started phasing out their 747's, they already received four more 77W's. They have two more new ones on order. KLM had just seven full pax 747's.


I still think this makes sense for KL. Inasmuch as it makes sense for them to be the choice here. As mentioned, setting up a line for five conversions is about the same effort as for one. As the 74Ms and 744s pertain to this, it is worthy of mention that the 77W has essentially become the new 747-Combi. Below decks cargo is about equal to what they are able to do with those things, so it actually is a good 1:1. If they wind up with a few extra, this is fine too. AMS can handle that.


Rossiya747 wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
It's probably Ryanair. They will start transatlantic service with 500-seat 777-300s. £99 London STN to New York (Hartford) and Los Angeles (San Bernadino).


Ya'll know that Ryanair's epic fleet renewal won't be with 737 MAXes but with 777X's and the 777-300s will just be the stepping stone for this project


Beat me too it!



It is however unclear what's going on with the one sitting at Schiphol. There's no news on that frame for a longtime. I could be wrong but I don't think these are destined for KLM as the replacement for the 747 Is well underway. Adding extra capacity would be welcome but then they need to find the extra slots at Amsterdam.
Flying blue only if possible
 
FatCat
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:51 am

XRadar98 wrote:
I think Iran could use them.

That's also my thought
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VSMUT
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:57 am

Flanker7 wrote:
It is however unclear what's going on with the one sitting at Schiphol. There's no news on that frame for a longtime. I could be wrong but I don't think these are destined for KLM as the replacement for the 747 Is well underway. Adding extra capacity would be welcome but then they need to find the extra slots at Amsterdam.


That is correct, but KLM also wants to get rid of the A330 fleet. Current plans are based on replacing the 747 fleet with a combination of 777-300ERs and 787-10s. By adding these, the 747s will be replaced entirely by 777s, leaving the 787s to replace most of the A330s.
 
Jetty
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:26 am

Flanker7 wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
usa330300 wrote:
They are parting out the 77Ws? What parts are finding a new home?


Any and all. I do not know if anyone is parting those out. But they would not have trouble finding a home. The 77W is on the more popular end of the Twin Aisle spectrum, and being relatively young, most of them will be around quite a while. It will not be hard to imagine that the spares market is immense.

eamondzhang wrote:

Seriously people just can't give this a break. When's DL's last time grabbing a used widebody and introduced into the fleet? 20 years ago. And they have all the A330-900 and A350-900 coming online that can do just as good as 777.

They had a lot of chances buying used 777s over the past ten yearsif they're really needed. When SQ, MH, EY (77L), AI, EK, CX & BR all having 777s retired, with many of them aren't old at all and with good maintenance record, DL choose not to buy them. And that contains ALL 777 models.

The answer is right there.

Michael


Agree with both your point and your emphasis thereon. DL have not purchased a used Twin Aisle in decades -unless you want to count mergers. Apart from the 767 you are mentioning, the A300/310s they got from PAA -when they also got route authorities with them- is probably the last time. It really is not a thing they do.

If they want 77Ws that badly, I am reasonably sure BCA will hold the line for them -though not forever. They could have them in a reasonable time period. But, as with what you said, I am not seeing real interest there.

inkjet7 wrote:

Since KLM started phasing out their 747's, they already received four more 77W's. They have two more new ones on order. KLM had just seven full pax 747's.


I still think this makes sense for KL. Inasmuch as it makes sense for them to be the choice here. As mentioned, setting up a line for five conversions is about the same effort as for one. As the 74Ms and 744s pertain to this, it is worthy of mention that the 77W has essentially become the new 747-Combi. Below decks cargo is about equal to what they are able to do with those things, so it actually is a good 1:1. If they wind up with a few extra, this is fine too. AMS can handle that.


Rossiya747 wrote:

Ya'll know that Ryanair's epic fleet renewal won't be with 737 MAXes but with 777X's and the 777-300s will just be the stepping stone for this project


Beat me too it!



It is however unclear what's going on with the one sitting at Schiphol. There's no news on that frame for a longtime. I could be wrong but I don't think these are destined for KLM as the replacement for the 747 Is well underway. Adding extra capacity would be welcome but then they need to find the extra slots at Amsterdam.

I already found them. FlyBe had the 5th most flights at AMS and just went bankrupt.
 
Flanker7
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:31 am

Jetty wrote:
Flanker7 wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:

Any and all. I do not know if anyone is parting those out. But they would not have trouble finding a home. The 77W is on the more popular end of the Twin Aisle spectrum, and being relatively young, most of them will be around quite a while. It will not be hard to imagine that the spares market is immense.



Agree with both your point and your emphasis thereon. DL have not purchased a used Twin Aisle in decades -unless you want to count mergers. Apart from the 767 you are mentioning, the A300/310s they got from PAA -when they also got route authorities with them- is probably the last time. It really is not a thing they do.

If they want 77Ws that badly, I am reasonably sure BCA will hold the line for them -though not forever. They could have them in a reasonable time period. But, as with what you said, I am not seeing real interest there.



I still think this makes sense for KL. Inasmuch as it makes sense for them to be the choice here. As mentioned, setting up a line for five conversions is about the same effort as for one. As the 74Ms and 744s pertain to this, it is worthy of mention that the 77W has essentially become the new 747-Combi. Below decks cargo is about equal to what they are able to do with those things, so it actually is a good 1:1. If they wind up with a few extra, this is fine too. AMS can handle that.




Beat me too it!



It is however unclear what's going on with the one sitting at Schiphol. There's no news on that frame for a longtime. I could be wrong but I don't think these are destined for KLM as the replacement for the 747 Is well underway. Adding extra capacity would be welcome but then they need to find the extra slots at Amsterdam.

I already found them. FlyBe had the 5th most flights at AMS and just went bankrupt.

I know, let's see if they can capture some of those.
Flying blue only if possible
 
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Polot
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:45 am

Antaras wrote:
I thought that GECAS will acquire some of them and convert those frames into freighters????

GECAS is converting their own frames that are coming off lease.
 
airbuster
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:52 am

VSMUT wrote:
AV8AJET wrote:
Wasn't there a rumor of KLM taking one or some of them?


Just one, the one parked in Amsterdam. But if they are going to go through the effort of properly refurbishing one, they might as well set up a line to do 5.

It would make sense for KLM. 5 more would mean all 747s get replaced by 777-300ERs, while the remaining 10 787-10 orders get to replace most of the A330s. I can't really see who else it could be. Swiss has 5 A340s left, but they are refurbishing those. Alternatively we are way out there with a startup, or Austrian Airlines or something.


To my understanding KLM isn’t going to refurbish the bird parked in AMS. Just use it for spares.
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Flanker7
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:58 am

airbuster wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
AV8AJET wrote:
Wasn't there a rumor of KLM taking one or some of them?


Just one, the one parked in Amsterdam. But if they are going to go through the effort of properly refurbishing one, they might as well set up a line to do 5.

It would make sense for KLM. 5 more would mean all 747s get replaced by 777-300ERs, while the remaining 10 787-10 orders get to replace most of the A330s. I can't really see who else it could be. Swiss has 5 A340s left, but they are refurbishing those. Alternatively we are way out there with a startup, or Austrian Airlines or something.


To my understanding KLM isn’t going to refurbish the bird parked in AMS. Just use it for spares.

Then how realistic is it that they would pick up the other frames? My guess is not, but we'll see, after all it's a rumour
Flying blue only if possible
 
jfk777
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:07 pm

If the condition of the Jet Airways 77W is judged by the condition of their other planes than who would operate those planes, they are going to be used as spares.
 
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frigatebird
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:12 pm

VSMUT wrote:
Flanker7 wrote:
It is however unclear what's going on with the one sitting at Schiphol. There's no news on that frame for a longtime. I could be wrong but I don't think these are destined for KLM as the replacement for the 747 Is well underway. Adding extra capacity would be welcome but then they need to find the extra slots at Amsterdam.


That is correct, but KLM also wants to get rid of the A330 fleet. Current plans are based on replacing the 747 fleet with a combination of 777-300ERs and 787-10s. By adding these, the 747s will be replaced entirely by 777s, leaving the 787s to replace most of the A330s.


It's certainly not something I would rule out, even with the ex 9W 77W at AMS not entering the KLM fleet. My understanding is that this one wasn't very well preserved, but other ex 9W ones may be in better shape.

I think KLM would rather have additional new 787-10s, but with the French unions demanding the majority of new aircraft must go to AF, it's possible KL is looking at used 77W as replacement for the remaining 747s and use the 787-10s on order to solely replace the A330s.
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dtw2hyd
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:18 pm

eamondzhang wrote:
...
Quite a few actually with EK and CX retiring more this year.

772ER (especially SQ and MH samples) and 77L are the type DL has already however they choose to not grab any second hand copies (other than for parts - the sole MH birds)

There's a reason behind this.

Michael


Most 777s will end up being parted out irrespective of who the operator was.

No one is going to pay top dollars even to DL 77Ls in a hypothetical sale.
All posts are just opinions.
 
NLDru
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:21 pm

KLM has taken over the B777 from Jet because the demand for India is very high. Jet flew daily with three B777s from three Indian destinations. It is therefore not a replacement for the 747s. KLM now simply needs extra capacity for India.
 
IWMBH
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:41 pm

airbuster wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
AV8AJET wrote:
Wasn't there a rumor of KLM taking one or some of them?


Just one, the one parked in Amsterdam. But if they are going to go through the effort of properly refurbishing one, they might as well set up a line to do 5.

It would make sense for KLM. 5 more would mean all 747s get replaced by 777-300ERs, while the remaining 10 787-10 orders get to replace most of the A330s. I can't really see who else it could be. Swiss has 5 A340s left, but they are refurbishing those. Alternatively we are way out there with a startup, or Austrian Airlines or something.


To my understanding KLM isn’t going to refurbish the bird parked in AMS. Just use it for spares.


Do you’ve a source for this?
 
VSMUT
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:21 pm

frigatebird wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
Flanker7 wrote:
It is however unclear what's going on with the one sitting at Schiphol. There's no news on that frame for a longtime. I could be wrong but I don't think these are destined for KLM as the replacement for the 747 Is well underway. Adding extra capacity would be welcome but then they need to find the extra slots at Amsterdam.


That is correct, but KLM also wants to get rid of the A330 fleet. Current plans are based on replacing the 747 fleet with a combination of 777-300ERs and 787-10s. By adding these, the 747s will be replaced entirely by 777s, leaving the 787s to replace most of the A330s.


It's certainly not something I would rule out, even with the ex 9W 77W at AMS not entering the KLM fleet. My understanding is that this one wasn't very well preserved, but other ex 9W ones may be in better shape.

I think KLM would rather have additional new 787-10s, but with the French unions demanding the majority of new aircraft must go to AF, it's possible KL is looking at used 77W as replacement for the remaining 747s and use the 787-10s on order to solely replace the A330s.


New 787s are really expensive, so I could see it being worthwhile to take some cheap 777-300ERs instead, regardless of the French unions.
 
ist2014
Posts: 426
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:01 pm

TK is out of question as well, they have 30+30 789/350 on order and 33 77w, they might need something like 35ulr for Discussed Syd flights or something smaller to replace 332s
 
76er
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Re: RUMOUR; Ex-Jet Airways 77W’s to find new home.

Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:30 pm

VSMUT wrote:
take some cheap 777-300ERs instead, regardless of the French unions.


It does not work that way unfortunately. By the way, when was the last time KL got their hands on second hand widebodies? And then there is of course the slot problem at AMS, although the demise of FlyBe today may bring some relief. Last time I checked they operated 19 flights a day out of AMS and it will be interesting to see how the slot coordinator will redistribute the newly available slots.

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