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MileHFL400
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Does Boeing continually improve their products?

Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:29 pm

As the title suggests do Boeing use the Airbus model of tinkering with their products?

Is there a difference between the 747-8F today from 2012?

767F today from 20 years ago?

B777-300ER today from 2014?

B787 today from 2014?

I think you catch my drift.....
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
ILikeTrains
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:38 pm

Yes, they never stop improving. Big examples include adding winglets to the 767.
 
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FiscAutTecGarte
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:39 pm

sure, they are always MAXimizing the potential of their product lines....
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bobsmith99
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:46 pm

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
sure, they are always MAXimizing the potential of their product lines....


Indeed. Boeing needs to rebuild its image and prove to the public that it has focused on creating a culture of quality and safety. Even besides the MAX, there was some documented shortcomings on quality control with Dreamliner production.
 
Antarius
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:08 pm

bobsmith99 wrote:
FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
sure, they are always MAXimizing the potential of their product lines....


Indeed. Boeing needs to rebuild its image and prove to the public that it has focused on creating a culture of quality and safety. Even besides the MAX, there was some documented shortcomings on quality control with Dreamliner production.


And this has what to do with the topic on hand?

To the OP - yes. All the manufacturers make continual improvements. Some example for Boeing include winglets, adding the sky interior to the 737 and 767 etc
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hOMSaR
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:12 pm

Another example from the 737 side is the elimination of the eyebrow windows in the cockpit to save weight, which was done partway through the NG's production (mid-2000s, IIRC).
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:13 pm

Antarius wrote:
Some example for Boeing include winglets, adding the sky interior to the 737 and 767 etc



When did the 767 get Sky Interior? I knew about the 777 interior but have not seen anything about Sky...
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ILikeTrains
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:18 pm

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Some example for Boeing include winglets, adding the sky interior to the 737 and 767 etc



When did the 767 get Sky Interior? I knew about the 777 interior but have not seen anything about Sky...


No idea on Sky, but I do know most/all 767s run the Signature cabin from the 777.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:05 pm

ILikeTrains wrote:

No idea on Sky, but I do know most/all 767s run the Signature cabin from the 777.



Yes, that was the name I was looking for. Anecdotally, I remember when AA had several of their 767-323s fitted out with that in First, but nowhere else on the plane...
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Antarius
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:11 pm

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Some example for Boeing include winglets, adding the sky interior to the 737 and 767 etc



When did the 767 get Sky Interior? I knew about the 777 interior but have not seen anything about Sky...


Sorry, I misspoke.

Yes signature interior similar to the 777 on the later build 767s.
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B757Forever
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:15 pm

Yes they do. The best example may be a comparison of the earliest 777's vs. the latest builds.
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smartplane
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:30 pm

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
sure, they are always MAXimizing the potential of their product lines....

Both incorporate AD's, match / better competitors, but when we read of MAX & 787 'improvements' like deletion of lightning protection, inoperable warnings, etc, is the focus more on shareholder reward maximisation at one?

Based on posts, PR and media revelations, seems Airbus is continually tweaking their products for the right reasons, and Boeing doing things on the sly for the wrong reasons, though the shareholders in both probably have the reverse perception.
 
Rossiya747
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:42 pm

Yes, but building a new large update looks better for the company since it shows that they are creating a "new" product
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amstone17
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:23 pm

Manufacturers continually do all sorts of work on existing models, including software upgrades, structural fixes for problems that crop up, training tweaks, all sorts of things.

Some prime examples include things like the high profile battery issues 787s had early on, requiring fixes and changes in procedure to prevent fires. Another 787 tweak was changes in airline operations to keep the computer systems from shutting down during operation. Airlines had to be told to make sure they completely shut the aircraft down from time to time, otherwise after a certain number of days they could have issues.

Things like airworthiness directives and recommendations are done to try and get airlines to implement needed changes for whatever reason

Manufacturers also tweak designs based on customer feedback, including the ever unpopular need for more seats, which may require re-certification of an already certified type.

Since aircraft now rely on very complex computer systems, software updates are quite a regular thing, just like your computer or phone often gets updates.

The whole introduction of blended winglets and sharklets was another thing. Designed for new production aircraft and to be retrofitted to existing aircraft

There are also programs like P2F conversions where a manufacturer will directly work on, or contract a 3rd party company, to figure out freighter conversions from existing aircraft. We've seen Boeing do them for a long time, Airbus also started doing them eventually with the A330, and recently flew the first converted A321. Boeing is currently working on a 777-300 P2F program. Airbus is also rumored to be working on an A350 freighter program, starting with purpose built freighters, but maybe one day there'll be a P2F market for them as well.


Ultimately, even if a type is no longer in production, the manufacturers still support them and play around with them, as long as there's money to be made in the process.
 
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Carlos01
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:32 pm

Yes. See how much better the 737 is today, compared to the one built in the late 50's. Incremental advances are visible.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:30 pm

Except for the 737 line, yes.
 
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MoKa777
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:36 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
As the title suggests do Boeing use the Airbus model of tinkering with their products?

Is there a difference between the 747-8F today from 2012?

767F today from 20 years ago?

B777-300ER today from 2014?

B787 today from 2014?

I think you catch my drift.....


I may be wrong but I think the OP means how the A333 went from a 212t short hauler to A 242t medium-long haul aircraft, how the A359 can carry 12 tons more today than it could at EIS, how the A321neo has evolved into the LR and the forthcoming XLR, how the A350-1000 has received incremental MTOW increases and is currently undergoing new engine related tests, etc.

Not necesaarily how the 767 has a more modern interior than it did in the 1990s or the full generational changes between the 777/737 Classics and the 77W/L/737 NG. Those are superficial (in the case of the 767) or clear, obvious model changes where the aircraft is far removed from the aircraft it was before (an extension of the family).
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:49 pm

bobsmith99 wrote:
FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
sure, they are always MAXimizing the potential of their product lines....


Indeed. Boeing needs to rebuild its image and prove to the public that it has focused on creating a culture of quality and safety. Even besides the MAX, there was some documented shortcomings on quality control with Dreamliner production.[/quoteABoeing needs to NOT put dimwits in charge that solely look at their Bonus as a reward for a good Job accomplished. Because it's NOT!! Unfortunately?
They don't pay program managers residuals for the number of any model sold. Nor do they fire them because the model didn't sell very well, Because at Airbus?
There might be nobody left other than the A320 team. And I would sure as HELL get rid of the team that brought the A400 to completion.
 
StTim
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:02 pm

Providing resolution to AD's is not (normally) an optional change. The clue is in the name - they are directives.

There is a definite perception that Airbus is much more active in the continual improvement of their frames. So far I have seen little here to counter that argument. I am in no way saying Boeing does nothing. It is just how active it is...
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:06 pm

MoKa777 wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
As the title suggests do Boeing use the Airbus model of tinkering with their products?

Is there a difference between the 747-8F today from 2012?

767F today from 20 years ago?

B777-300ER today from 2014?

B787 today from 2014?

I think you catch my drift.....


I may be wrong but I think the OP means how the A333 went from a 212t short hauler to A 242t medium-long haul aircraft, how the A359 can carry 12 tons more today than it could at EIS, how the A321neo has evolved into the LR and the forthcoming XLR, how the A350-1000 has received incremental MTOW increases and is currently undergoing new engine related tests, etc.

Not necesaarily how the 767 has a more modern interior than it did in the 1990s or the full generational changes between the 777/737 Classics and the 77W/L/737 NG. Those are superficial (in the case of the 767) or clear, obvious model changes where the aircraft is far removed from the aircraft it was before (an extension of the family).


I would think the non ER to ER 767's would fall in the same category as the A333. A 762 from 1982 was certainly a short hauler.
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FiscAutTecGarte
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:10 pm

there was the option of carbon brakes on the 737NG. two different winglets offered over the life of the 737NG too.
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FiscAutTecGarte
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:12 pm

some of the enhancements rolled out for 787-9 are finding their way into the 787-8..
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Starfuryt
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:19 pm

on a similar note I'd also be interested in how engines that hang on these planes evolve over time. 767 technically has had the same engines being put under the wings for 20 years, but surely they are not the exact same that were made 20 years ago? How much modification can an engine go through before it has to be re-certified?

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Weatherwatcher1
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:22 pm

If you work for an airline and ever get a chance to go to one of Boeing’s fleet team meetings, they’ll tell you about all the things they are doing to upgrade airplanes. It’s been going on for decades

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeroma ... story.html

It’s a very collaborative process between Boeing and the airlines

Image

Source: https://www.boeing.com/commercial/aerom ... r_02_10/4/
 
johns624
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:12 pm

Carlos01 wrote:
Yes. See how much better the 737 is today, compared to the one built in the late 50's. Incremental advances are visible.

Especially since they didn't make 737s in the late 50's. :)
 
SwissCanuck
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:21 pm

ILikeTrains wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
Antarius wrote:
Some example for Boeing include winglets, adding the sky interior to the 737 and 767 etc



When did the 767 get Sky Interior? I knew about the 777 interior but have not seen anything about Sky...


No idea on Sky, but I do know most/all 767s run the Signature cabin from the 777.


Very few of the 767s have this cabin. Only some later built frames. Where did you get this impression from?
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:39 am

SwissCanuck wrote:

Very few of the 767s have this cabin. Only some later built frames. Where did you get this impression from?



I do not know what the numbers are, but I would not say it is very few. At least not as it would pertain to the ratio of in-service units. All 764s have it, a good deal of 762s & 763s were back-fitted with it, and several later build units, e.g. ANA's had it off the line. At this point, I would say it is fair to suppose that it is the second most common interior after the -Fs.

UA & DL would be the largest operators with the older interior, but again, both of those fleets are offset by their respective percentages of 764s...
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AirKevin
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:52 am

hOMSaR wrote:
Another example from the 737 side is the elimination of the eyebrow windows in the cockpit to save weight, which was done partway through the NG's production (mid-2000s, IIRC).

There was that, the introduction of blended winglets, then split scimitar winglets, LED lights, changes to the engines, and if I remember right, the bacon lights were made more aerodynamic.
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delimit
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:18 am

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
SwissCanuck wrote:

Very few of the 767s have this cabin. Only some later built frames. Where did you get this impression from?



I do not know what the numbers are, but I would not say it is very few. At least not as it would pertain to the ratio of in-service units. All 764s have it, a good deal of 762s & 763s were back-fitted with it, and several later build units, e.g. ANA's had it off the line. At this point, I would say it is fair to suppose that it is the second most common interior after the -Fs.

UA & DL would be the largest operators with the older interior, but again, both of those fleets are offset by their respective percentages of 764s...

I can't speak for UA, but the DL 763 have all been stripped and refit with newer interiors.
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:02 am

MoKa777 wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
As the title suggests do Boeing use the Airbus model of tinkering with their products?

Is there a difference between the 747-8F today from 2012?

767F today from 20 years ago?

B777-300ER today from 2014?

B787 today from 2014?

I think you catch my drift.....


I may be wrong but I think the OP means how the A333 went from a 212t short hauler to A 242t medium-long haul aircraft, how the A359 can carry 12 tons more today than it could at EIS, how the A321neo has evolved into the LR and the forthcoming XLR, how the A350-1000 has received incremental MTOW increases and is currently undergoing new engine related tests, etc.

Not necesaarily how the 767 has a more modern interior than it did in the 1990s or the full generational changes between the 777/737 Classics and the 77W/L/737 NG. Those are superficial (in the case of the 767) or clear, obvious model changes where the aircraft is far removed from the aircraft it was before (an extension of the family).


Proportionally the 767 MTOW and 777 MTOWs have increased more than the A330 has. Boeing used designators like ER and LR whereas Airbus didn’t for the A330. Airbus has begun using LR and XLR designations for the A321 that are proportionally smaller upgrades than the widebodies.

It’s also worth noting that the 767-300ER was a re-engine in 1988. The JT9D to PW4000 and CF6-50 to CF6-80 was a thrust and efficiency improvement. Boeing used the ER designation for what Airbus now calls a NEO.

My point is that both Boeing and Airbus have improved airplanes including payload increases. The key difference has been nomenclature for the upgrades.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:06 am

delimit wrote:
I can't speak for UA, but the DL 763 have all been stripped and refit with newer interiors.



I suspected that was the case. But I was not sure enough to post on it. Thanks though.

I do think at least some of the UA 763s are so-fitted as well.
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Max Q
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Re: Does Boeing continually improve their products?

Fri Mar 06, 2020 2:23 am

No single Boeing aircraft epitomizes steady and significant improvement more than the 747


From its first underpowered 700k MGTOW-100 series to its final almost million pound -8 version across numerous sub types with all the capabilities and efficiency improvements that have come with that no other aircraft will come close to such an evolution
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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Ziyulu
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Re: Does Boeing continually improve their products?

Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:29 am

I disagree. The 787s have worse quality interior wise as compared to the 747 and 777. However, I do want to say the 787-9 has improved in quality as compared to the 787-8.
 
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:30 am

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
delimit wrote:
I can't speak for UA, but the DL 763 have all been stripped and refit with newer interiors.



I suspected that was the case. But I was not sure enough to post on it. Thanks though.

I do think at least some of the UA 763s are so-fitted as well.

All the UA 763s have the signature interior
 
OldAeroGuy
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:50 am

Carlos01 wrote:
Yes. See how much better the 737 is today, compared to the one built in the late 50's. Incremental advances are visible.


You're 10 years too early.

The initial 737 EIS was in the late '60's.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
OldAeroGuy
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:54 am

AirKevin wrote:
..... I remember right, the bacon lights were made more aerodynamic.


Yes, before the aerodynamic clean up, they made an annoying sizzling sound.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
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Carlos01
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:56 am

OldAeroGuy wrote:
Carlos01 wrote:
Yes. See how much better the 737 is today, compared to the one built in the late 50's. Incremental advances are visible.


You're 10 years too early.

The initial 737 EIS was in the late '60's.


Well, the technology and the fuselage were from the 50’s. So it started off as a ”max” already.
 
SwissCanuck
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:27 pm

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
delimit wrote:
I can't speak for UA, but the DL 763 have all been stripped and refit with newer interiors.



I suspected that was the case. But I was not sure enough to post on it. Thanks though.

I do think at least some of the UA 763s are so-fitted as well.


I forgot about the -4 (I think I've only been on one twice, my bad) yes I believe they're all that way. But the refit is expensive, as you're replacing and re-wiring the PSUs. Many airlines have chosen to just re-spray the original box-style bins. Air Canada did this for example, adding crappy LED strips above the bins to try and unify the product with the 77/78/333. I've been on several in South America/Europe/Africa all with the old interior lately, but a quick google search reveals more airlines have upgraded at least some of their fleets than I thought. I think space between us is correct, more half and half :)
 
MileHFL400
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Re: Does Boeing continually improve their products?

Fri Mar 06, 2020 1:53 pm

Max Q wrote:
No single Boeing aircraft epitomizes steady and significant improvement more than the 747


From its first underpowered 700k MGTOW-100 series to its final almost million pound -8 version across numerous sub types with all the capabilities and efficiency improvements that have come with that no other aircraft will come close to such an evolution



These were more step changes over a long period than continued update
Thanks and best Regards
AA
 
OldAeroGuy
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:37 pm

Carlos01 wrote:
OldAeroGuy wrote:
Carlos01 wrote:
Yes. See how much better the 737 is today, compared to the one built in the late 50's. Incremental advances are visible.


You're 10 years too early.

The initial 737 EIS was in the late '60's.


Well, the technology and the fuselage were from the 50’s. So it started off as a ”max” already.


No, the technology had advanced in terms of engines (overall pressure ratio), wings (airfoils) and flight deck (two person crew rather than three).
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
 
StTim
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Re: Does Boeing continually improve their products?

Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:44 pm

I think some are missing the point here.

There is no doubt that there is a huge difference between the 737-100 and the 737-800.

But Airbus kept the A330-300 moniker up until the re-engine. It this time they moved it from a medium haul to a long haul plane. The A321ceo that was coming off the line in 2018 was a substantial improvement over the early A321's. The cockpit changed from old tech to a glass cockpit - incrementally.

This is where people see the difference.
 
kiowa
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:58 pm

OldAeroGuy wrote:
Carlos01 wrote:
OldAeroGuy wrote:

You're 10 years too early.

The initial 737 EIS was in the late '60's.


Well, the technology and the fuselage were from the 50’s. So it started off as a ”max” already.


No, the technology had advanced in terms of engines (overall pressure ratio), wings (airfoils) and flight deck (two person crew rather than three).


Boeing has made some great airframes and vastly improved others over the past 20 years. The 737, however, needed to be replaced 40 years ago.
 
N292UX
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:58 pm

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
SwissCanuck wrote:

Very few of the 767s have this cabin. Only some later built frames. Where did you get this impression from?



I do not know what the numbers are, but I would not say it is very few. At least not as it would pertain to the ratio of in-service units. All 764s have it, a good deal of 762s & 763s were back-fitted with it, and several later build units, e.g. ANA's had it off the line. At this point, I would say it is fair to suppose that it is the second most common interior after the -Fs.

UA & DL would be the largest operators with the older interior, but again, both of those fleets are offset by their respective percentages of 764s...

All the 763's in the UA and DL fleets have the signature interiors. However, the economy cabins of AA's 763s do not have a signature interior, and still have the old/original interior.
 
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Stitch
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Re: Does Boeing continually improve their products?

Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:05 pm

MileHFL400 wrote:
As the title suggests do Boeing use the Airbus model of tinkering with their products?


Yes they do, but the changes are usually not as quick as you suggested.

One example is the 777 Performance Improvement Package first introduced in 2008 for the 777-200, 777-200ER and 777-300 that incorporated some aerodynamics refinements introduced with the Boeing 777-300ER and Boeing 737NG. This PiP consisted of three combined engineering changes that provided benefits including greater range, increases in maximum take off weight and lower consumption of fuel on a typical flight.

The modifications consisted of a software-implemented aerodynamic reduction of drag encountered on the aircraft outer wing by drooping the wing's outer aileron, the replacement of all 32 vortex generators with newly redesigned, more efficient vortex generators proven on the Boeing 737NG to contribute to an overall reduction of drag and new air inlet and exhaust mechanisms to the environmental control system in concert with variable-position exhaust louvers that can generate additional thrust and thus lowering fuel burn.
 
AYVN
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Re: Does Boeing continually improve their products?

Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:36 pm

How about first series 737NG,from late 90s, or first series 777-200er, What upgrades have those early produced planes received after their first flight? I would assume that in 20+ years in service those planes have quite a few upgrades made, but what?
I mean planes that are in service, what upgrades are retrofitted?
Last edited by AYVN on Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Do Boeing continually improve their products?

Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:37 pm

SwissCanuck wrote:

I forgot about the -4 (I think I've only been on one twice, my bad) yes I believe they're all that way. But the refit is expensive, as you're replacing and re-wiring the PSUs. Many airlines have chosen to just re-spray the original box-style bins. Air Canada did this for example, adding crappy LED strips above the bins to try and unify the product with the 77/78/333.


Indeed. I will issue credit for them trying to unify the product line. But I do always feel like I am in some sort of 1950s Ocean Themed High School Dance aboard those.


SwissCanuck wrote:
I've been on several in South America/Europe/Africa all with the old interior lately, but a quick google search reveals more airlines have upgraded at least some of their fleets than I thought. I think space between us is correct, more half and half :)


Indeed, I suspect so. I did not realize how many UA & DL still have.

N292UX wrote:
However, the economy cabins of AA's 763s do not have a signature interior, and still have the old/original interior.


At least one was done all the way out, and I suspect more were. But I do not know if that/those are still in servive, and knowing AA, it would not surprise me to find that the hybrids are what they have left.

I do find that to be one of the more strange cost saving measures I have seen in this business. Reminds me of a Mercedes with electric windows in the front and cranks in the rear.
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Re: Does Boeing continually improve their products?

Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:07 pm

AYVN wrote:
How about first series 737NG,from late 90s, or first series 777-200er, What upgrades have those early produced planes received after their first flight? I would assume that in 20+ years in service those planes have quite a few upgrades made, but what?
I mean planes that are in service, what upgrades are retrofitted?


Well the 77E’s upgraded from AIMS 1 ( Airplane Information Management System) to AIMS 2 that came standard on the newer 77L’s and 77W’s Honeywell no longer supports AIMS 1 so everything has to be retrofitted.
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Re: Does Boeing continually improve their products?

Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:45 pm

Stitch wrote:
MileHFL400 wrote:
As the title suggests do Boeing use the Airbus model of tinkering with their products?

Yes they do, but the changes are usually not as quick as you suggested.

One example is the 777 Performance Improvement Package first introduced in 2008 for the 777-200, 777-200ER and 777-300 that incorporated some aerodynamics refinements introduced with the Boeing 777-300ER and Boeing 737NG. This PiP consisted of three combined engineering changes that provided benefits including greater range, increases in maximum take off weight and lower consumption of fuel on a typical flight.

The modifications consisted of a software-implemented aerodynamic reduction of drag encountered on the aircraft outer wing by drooping the wing's outer aileron, the replacement of all 32 vortex generators with newly redesigned, more efficient vortex generators proven on the Boeing 737NG to contribute to an overall reduction of drag and new air inlet and exhaust mechanisms to the environmental control system in concert with variable-position exhaust louvers that can generate additional thrust and thus lowering fuel burn.

And in 2015, tech was back ported from 777x and (ahem) MD-12:

In tandem with the development of the third generation Boeing 777X, Boeing worked with General Electric to offer a 2% improvement in fuel efficiency to in-production 777-300ER aircraft. General Electric improved the fan module and the high-pressure compressor stage-1 blisk in the GE-90-115 turbofan, as well as reduced clearances between the tips of the turbine blades and the shroud during cruise. These improvements, of which the latter is the most important and was derived from work to develop the 787, were stated by GE to lower fuel burn by 0.5%. Boeing's wing modifications were intended to deliver the remainder. Boeing stated that every 1% improvement in the 777-300ER's fuel burn translates into being able to fly the aircraft another 75 nmi (139 km; 86 mi) on the same load of fuel, or add ten passengers or 2,400 lb (1,100 kg) of cargo to a "load limited" flight.[131]

In March 2015, additional details of the improvement package were unveiled. The 777-300ER was to shed 1,800 lb (820 kg) by replacing the fuselage crown with tie rods and composite integration panels, similar to those used on the 787. The new flight control software was to eliminate the need for the tail skid by keeping the tail off the runway surface regardless of the extent to which pilots command the elevators. Boeing was also redesigning the inboard flap fairings to reduce drag by reducing pressure on the underside of the wing. The outboard raked wingtip was to have a divergent trailing edge, described as a "poor man's airfoil" by Boeing; this was originally developed for the McDonnell Douglas MD-12 project. Another change involved elevator trim bias. These changes were to increase fuel efficiency and allow airlines to add 14 additional seats to the airplane, increasing per seat fuel efficiency by 5%.[132]

Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_77 ... provements

And in 2012 the 737-NG was given an improvement package:

The 737 NG Performance Improvement Package (PIP) was a series of aerodynamic and engine improvements including refined wing control surfaces, redesigned wheel-well fairing, a streamlined anti-collision lights, ECS inlet/exhaust modulation and the new CFM56-7BE "Evolution" engine (see powerplant). The total fuel saving with PIP is 2%.

The PIP was introduced as standard into production 737 NGs in stages from line number 3570 in March 2011 to line number 4302 in December 2012. Some of these improvements have also been made available for retrofit to earlier NGs.

Details of the individual improvements are given below:
  • New CFM56-7BE Evolution engine
  • New low drag anti-collision lights
  • New low drag wheel well fairings
  • Spoiler and slat trailing edge modifications
  • ECS ram air inlet and exhaust modifications

Ref: http://www.b737.org.uk/737ng-pip.htm
Ref: https://boeing.mediaroom.com/2012-07-31 ... -Fuel-Burn

So there is plenty of evidence to answer the OP's question in the affirmative.
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Re: Does Boeing continually improve their products?

Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:04 am

Back during the787 battery problems I wrote a long piece on the change process within Boeing. Basically each model has 1 or 2 change boards who look at, schedule and commit changes to the respective models. changes may be production driven (cheaper, easier assembly, commonality, vendor component improvements or vendor replacements), engineering driven (component life, improved performance, weight savings), customer driven (generic attach points, interior changes, etc.), regulatory driven (ADS or courtesy notifications). many changes originate within the company. VERY FEW involve massive PR flogging. During my time there we would have maybe twenty changes in work and maybe only reach full commitment on 1 or 2 a week.

There are checks and balances to ensure the changes are beneficial and could be accomplished as committed (including retrofit considerations).
 
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Re: Does Boeing continually improve their products?

Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:50 pm

StTim wrote:
I think some are missing the point here.

There is no doubt that there is a huge difference between the 737-100 and the 737-800.

But Airbus kept the A330-300 moniker up until the re-engine. It this time they moved it from a medium haul to a long haul plane. The A321ceo that was coming off the line in 2018 was a substantial improvement over the early A321's. The cockpit changed from old tech to a glass cockpit - incrementally.

This is where people see the difference.


The A320 isn’t the only plane getting flight deck upgrades. If you look at 767 cockpit evolution, it’s been significant







Compare the evolution of the displays from CRTs to LCDs to more digital displays to a glass cockpit to a fully glass cockpit with large displays. All the underlying upgrades have led to significant avionics and navigation upgrades as well

Here is the latest that Collins and Boeing have been working on to continue to modernize the in service 767 to keep them flying for decades

Image

Source https://mobile.twitter.com/AeroSavvy/st ... 8159652864

The 767 has gone through more upgrades over its life than the A330 has. Engine upgrades, avionics upgrades, stretches, max takeoff weight increases, etc

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