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Opus99
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Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:29 pm

 
Williamsb747
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:37 pm

Oooh a challenge to QF’s Project Sunrise. This could be very interesting.
Williams-
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mmo
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:46 pm

Makes no sense. There would be no specific training required as MEL is not a special airport.
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
LHRFlyer
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:51 pm

Would be amazed if this ever happened.

There are an awful lot of things that would have to be done before BA would start training pilots for MEL non-stop, not least negotiating an industrial agreement with its own pilots, which Qantas has not yet been able to do.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Mon Mar 09, 2020 5:59 pm

I'd believe this rumour more if it was LHR-SYD nonstop to replace the current 77W via SIN, instead of re-opening MEL.
 
Opus99
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:07 pm

mmo wrote:
Makes no sense. There would be no specific training required as MEL is not a special airport.

Read the second article. It’s not specific training
 
jfk777
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:38 pm

BA is not going to fly to Australia nonstop from LHR, the idea of them flying a A350-1000 nonstop to Melbourne is silly. They have better things to do with 3 A350-1000 then this.
 
x1234
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Mon Mar 09, 2020 6:59 pm

Can the A350-1000 even fly MEL-LHR west-bound!? If it can then TK would be in good position to launch IST-SYD which is shorter.
 
cedarjet
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:00 pm

Melbourne was served for decades, and it wasn’t losing money when they cancelled the route, just that an Australia route uses at least 2.5 airframes to provide daily service and could be utilised better elsewhere. Perhaps the A350 via India or some other fifth freedom route. I must say, it’s the right sized aircraft for LHR-XXX-MEL.
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:23 pm

jfk777 wrote:
BA is not going to fly to Australia nonstop from LHR, the idea of them flying a A350-1000 nonstop to Melbourne is silly. They have better things to do with 3 A350-1000 then this.


x1234 wrote:
Can the A350-1000 even fly MEL-LHR west-bound!? If it can then TK would be in good position to launch IST-SYD which is shorter.


Williamsb747 wrote:
Oooh a challenge to QF’s Project Sunrise. This could be very interesting.
Williams-


To be clear, the article in the opening post talks about Melbourne airport charts being loaded into the chart suite on BA’s A350. This does not necessarily mean they are intending a non-stop service, simply that they are planning for the aircraft to go to Melbourne.

V/F
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mattyfitzg
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:24 pm

Thought BAs A350s only had enough galley space for one hot service and a cold snack service. No way would BA only service one meal on LHR-MEL.
 
mmo
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:29 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:

To be clear, the article in the opening post talks about Melbourne airport charts being loaded into the chart suite on BA’s A350. This does not necessarily mean they are intending a non-stop service, simply that they are planning for the aircraft to go to Melbourne.

V/F

It could also be flown to SYD and the MEL charts are for alternate purposes. The simple addition of charts for an airport means absolutely nothing.
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
Arion640
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:40 pm

Opus99 wrote:
mmo wrote:
Makes no sense. There would be no specific training required as MEL is not a special airport.

Read the second article. It’s not specific training


I believe an airport map that happened to be MEL was loaded into one of the pilots systems?

Willie Walsh expressed he would like BA to return to MEL a few years ago, but i’ll believe it when i see it. The only logical option in my opinion would be to swap the BA A380 SIN flight to the A350 for LHR-SIN-MEL.
 
Galwayman
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:02 pm

BA must have better uses for the frames it wastes on SYD . Oz is just in the wrong place for a UK. airline . Once QF launch a non stop time for BA to drop it and feed Qatar or CX
 
Arion640
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:08 pm

Galwayman wrote:
BA must have better uses for the frames it wastes on SYD . Oz is just in the wrong place for a UK. airline . Once QF launch a non stop time for BA to drop it and feed Qatar or CX


I think SYD-SIN does quite well in it’s own right.
 
Auchmithie
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:12 pm

With the B77W fleet to be reconfigured from 14F/56J/44W/183Y to 8F/76J/40W/130M they may well become too premium heavy/economy light for LHR-SIN-SYD and the A35K configuration of 56J/56W/219Y may be more suitable. Perhaps MEL charts are being loaded as an alternate to SYD.
 
jagraham
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:19 pm

QF Sunrise A35Js seat 250, have an ACT, a weight increase to accommodate the ACT, and may have other adjustments. No standard A35J is going to carry any significant revenue nonstop between LHR and MEL. Something is missing.
 
GoldenState787
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:24 pm

cedarjet wrote:
Melbourne was served for decades, and it wasn’t losing money when they cancelled the route, just that an Australia route uses at least 2.5 airframes to provide daily service and could be utilised better elsewhere. Perhaps the A350 via India or some other fifth freedom route. I must say, it’s the right sized aircraft for LHR-XXX-MEL.


I think SIN might be an ideal stopover point. BA already operates SYD to SIN, and given the large number of flights between SIN and MEL on a daily basis, there is clearly strong demand on the route for a new airline to make this work.
 
smi0006
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:29 pm

GoldenState787 wrote:
cedarjet wrote:
Melbourne was served for decades, and it wasn’t losing money when they cancelled the route, just that an Australia route uses at least 2.5 airframes to provide daily service and could be utilised better elsewhere. Perhaps the A350 via India or some other fifth freedom route. I must say, it’s the right sized aircraft for LHR-XXX-MEL.


I think SIN might be an ideal stopover point. BA already operates SYD to SIN, and given the large number of flights between SIN and MEL on a daily basis, there is clearly strong demand on the route for a new airline to make this work.


I don’t agree SIN - MEL is a blood bath with at times over capacity.

I would have thought LHR-DOH-MEL would have made more sense in cooperation with QR. QR have stated they would like to add capacity to AU but can’t as they have maxed out their bilaterals. Considering the IAG/QR connection and the possibility for a JV it would allow good LHR traffic, but also top up connections in DOH.

Regardless, now is not the time to be adding new routes, this will be 2-3years off a the earliest.
 
BA777FO
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:12 pm

Auchmithie wrote:
With the B77W fleet to be reconfigured from 14F/56J/44W/183Y to 8F/76J/40W/130M they may well become too premium heavy/economy light for LHR-SIN-SYD and the A35K configuration of 56J/56W/219Y may be more suitable. Perhaps MEL charts are being loaded as an alternate to SYD.


This is it exactly. The 77W will be too premium heavy for the SIN-SYD leg. The A350 is likely to take over the LHR-SIN-SYD. That said it won't happen until the latter part of 2021.

The 77W has the charts loaded for MEL but doesn't go there. The A380 also has MEL loaded into it but it won't be doing SIN-SYD anytime soon.
 
Opus99
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:30 pm

BA777FO wrote:
Auchmithie wrote:
With the B77W fleet to be reconfigured from 14F/56J/44W/183Y to 8F/76J/40W/130M they may well become too premium heavy/economy light for LHR-SIN-SYD and the A35K configuration of 56J/56W/219Y may be more suitable. Perhaps MEL charts are being loaded as an alternate to SYD.


This is it exactly. The 77W will be too premium heavy for the SIN-SYD leg. The A350 is likely to take over the LHR-SIN-SYD. That said it won't happen until the latter part of 2021.

The 77W has the charts loaded for MEL but doesn't go there. The A380 also has MEL loaded into it but it won't be doing SIN-SYD anytime soon.

With this plan, I always struggle to see where the 779 fits into BAs plans. With potentially 18-42 of them coming in
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:42 pm

Opus99 wrote:
BA777FO wrote:
Auchmithie wrote:
With the B77W fleet to be reconfigured from 14F/56J/44W/183Y to 8F/76J/40W/130M they may well become too premium heavy/economy light for LHR-SIN-SYD and the A35K configuration of 56J/56W/219Y may be more suitable. Perhaps MEL charts are being loaded as an alternate to SYD.


This is it exactly. The 77W will be too premium heavy for the SIN-SYD leg. The A350 is likely to take over the LHR-SIN-SYD. That said it won't happen until the latter part of 2021.

The 77W has the charts loaded for MEL but doesn't go there. The A380 also has MEL loaded into it but it won't be doing SIN-SYD anytime soon.

With this plan, I always struggle to see where the 779 fits into BAs plans. With potentially 18-42 of them coming in


BA still have 30 odd 744s to replace, 18 779s on form order? They will likely be a mid J 744 replacement which are 337 seats, maybe something like 8F 48J 40W 230Y or something? The 77W reconfigure replace the high J 744s while the 78J 35K replace the remaining 744s and a bit of expansion.

Not sure I’d see BA back to MEL.
 
Opus99
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:48 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
BA777FO wrote:

This is it exactly. The 77W will be too premium heavy for the SIN-SYD leg. The A350 is likely to take over the LHR-SIN-SYD. That said it won't happen until the latter part of 2021.

The 77W has the charts loaded for MEL but doesn't go there. The A380 also has MEL loaded into it but it won't be doing SIN-SYD anytime soon.

With this plan, I always struggle to see where the 779 fits into BAs plans. With potentially 18-42 of them coming in


BA still have 30 odd 744s to replace, 18 779s on form order? They will likely be a mid J 744 replacement which are 337 seats, maybe something like 8F 48J 40W 230Y or something? The 77W reconfigure replace the high J 744s while the 78J 35K replace the remaining 744s and a bit of expansion.

Not sure I’d see BA back to MEL.

That config would’ve made sense but the confines config is 8F 65J 40W 206Y. That 65J is a high j but not as high as the 77W
 
Clackers
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:49 pm

Seems like "Crooked" Willie is just lying to the shareholders in these times of great need. No chance BA would choose MEL over SYD or BNE anyway.
 
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vhtje
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:39 pm

The article just says MEL is loaded on the OANS system. That doesn’t mean it would be a non-stop service.

I though pt one of the problems with the current BA A350 config is lack of storage space in the galleys. So much so that it precludes a full second meal service for economy.

I should think that would definitely rule out BA’s A350 doing any ultra long haul in its current configuration.
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Opus99
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:44 pm

vhtje wrote:
The article just says MEL is loaded on the OANS system. That doesn’t mean it would be a non-stop service.

I though pt one of the problems with the current BA A350 config is lack of storage space in the galleys. So much so that it precludes a full second meal service for economy.

I should think that would definitely rule out BA’s A350 doing any ultra long haul in its current configuration.

The config may well change should extra 350s come in. Given BAs pleased performance with the aircraft I won’t be surprised.

However at the same time that rumour is said to be exaggerated
 
Scotron12
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:38 am

vhtje wrote:
The article just says MEL is loaded on the OANS system. That doesn’t mean it would be a non-stop service.

I though pt one of the problems with the current BA A350 config is lack of storage space in the galleys. So much so that it precludes a full second meal service for economy.

I should think that would definitely rule out BA’s A350 doing any ultra long haul in its current configuration.


Seats are installed by BA in CWL. I guess they could change the galleys too if they want. Would also be easy to add an 8 F cabin. They have over 213 WT seats...quite large compared to their other aircraft.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:20 am

Scotron12 wrote:
vhtje wrote:
The article just says MEL is loaded on the OANS system. That doesn’t mean it would be a non-stop service.

I though pt one of the problems with the current BA A350 config is lack of storage space in the galleys. So much so that it precludes a full second meal service for economy.

I should think that would definitely rule out BA’s A350 doing any ultra long haul in its current configuration.


Seats are installed by BA in CWL. I guess they could change the galleys too if they want. Would also be easy to add an 8 F cabin. They have over 213 WT seats...quite large compared to their other aircraft.

Changing galleys is not a simple task nor is it cheap.
 
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zeke
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:51 am

vhtje wrote:
The article just says MEL is loaded on the OANS system. That doesn’t mean it would be a non-stop service.


Simply may mean the are using for example MEL-AVV as a city pair for a regulatory or recurrent simulator exercise. MEL is one of the few places that I fly in the A350 that allows the opportunity to fly a GLS approach.

With loads dropping across th e BA network like many other airlines, it would also make economical sense to fly the A350 instead of the 77W to SYD via SIN where there is the greatest fuel burn reduction, and use the 77W on shorter routes.
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changyou
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:00 am

It’ll be nice to see the 380 35K 77W in SIN at the same time.
 
Boeing74741R
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:43 am

Galwayman wrote:
BA must have better uses for the frames it wastes on SYD . Oz is just in the wrong place for a UK. airline . Once QF launch a non stop time for BA to drop it and feed Qatar or CX


Given that BA turned SYD round to make it profitable by swapping the aircraft and using Mixed Fleet crew, clearly they saw it worth the effort to make the economics stack up in order to continue serving Australia.
 
canmau
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:45 am

vhtje wrote:
The article just says MEL is loaded on the OANS system. That doesn’t mean it would be a non-stop service.

I though pt one of the problems with the current BA A350 config is lack of storage space in the galleys. So much so that it precludes a full second meal service for economy.

I should think that would definitely rule out BA’s A350 doing any ultra long haul in its current configuration.


If the route wouldn't be nonstop, what about the possibility of BA opening LHR-PER-MEL?
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:46 am

Clackers wrote:
Seems like "Crooked" Willie is just lying to the shareholders in these times of great need. No chance BA would choose MEL over SYD or BNE anyway.

I've noted just about all of your posts are anti BA. Can you please elaborate as to why there is such a dissatisfaction?
 
Danhill1905
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:50 am

Whilst I would love to see BA return to Melbourne alongside the Sydney operation, I just can’t see it happening.

Take the basics. A MEL service would never be operated non-stop with BA. Negotiations with Pilots would be too complicated. Qantas have been talking to theirs for as long as I can remember regarding Project Sunrise and they aren’t any closer it seems to when they started.

Only Qantas in the near future would operate a non-stop service between Australia and the UK. I use the term “near future” loosely because personally I don’t think it’s something that’s around the corner so to speak.

The biggest thing on my mind however, is the amount of frames that a MEL service would use. Assuming BA would introduce a daily service, that’s 3 aircraft on that route. BA have 18 A350-1000’s on order, 5 have been delivered with the 6th and 7th in the next couple of weeks for delivery for its routes to Austin, Philadelphia and Washington-Dulles alongside its current routes to Dubai, Toronto, Tel Aviv and Bangalore.

Would BA introduce anything but a daily service? I don’t think they would. If Sydney is a daily service with the 777-300ER then MEL would have to be the same. The city of Melbourne is apparently growing 18% faster than Sydney and is predicted to be the biggest city in Australia by 2050 so to be fair, that would interest BA greatly. Most people tell me that Melbourne is the better city between them and Sydney.

The other question if they did introduce the service is where would they operate via? In the past, BA operated MEL with a stop at SIN, the same as their SYD route. I don’t see that happening now. The amount of flights between MEL and SIN is so competitive.

I think you could make a case for all of the list of possibilities though:
Bangkok (BKK)
Kuala Lumpur (KUL)
Hong Kong (HKG)
Doha (DOH)

I’m sure there are more possibilities that BA could operate via but those 4 are the ones that spring to mind immediately. British Airways have the slots at LHR to play with remember having being given the 12 slot pairs from Flybe.

With the world in the condition that it’s currently in, no new routes would be started up by all airlines I think and this virus doesn’t seem to be disappearing anytime soon unfortunately.
 
SYDSpotter
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Tue Mar 10, 2020 8:52 am

canmau wrote:
If the route wouldn't be nonstop, what about the possibility of BA opening LHR-PER-MEL?


They could do that, but they wouldn't be allowed to carry PER-MEL and MEL-PER passengers. With QF already on LHR-PER, I can't see room for another carrier offering a non-stop.
319_320_321_332_333_359_388 / 734_737_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W_788_789
 
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vhtje
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:04 am

canmau wrote:

If the route wouldn't be nonstop, what about the possibility of BA opening LHR-PER-MEL?


There are so many reasons why BA opening a route to MEL via anywhere is unlikely:

1) It ties up too many aircraft. A run across the Atlantic and back can be done in 24 hours by one aircraft, thus allowing for an excellent utilisation. But a run to Australia typically requires an additional .5 of an aircraft per 24 hours (look at Qantas: they often have three aircraft on the QF 1/2 SYD > LHR> SYD route in the air at the same time). That is a lot of aircraft to tie up for what isn't a particularly high yielding route (because there is so much competition). BA can surely make more money from the aircraft by opening new TATL routes. Forum member gemuser knows a lot more about aircraft utilisation on the kangaroo route, do a search his excellent posts for more details.
2) BA can just as easily send passengers to MEL on its codeshare/alliance partners. There is a plethora of options: CX from HKG, QF, QR, MH...
3) BA's product arguably isn't premium enough to attract high-yield Australian travellers who prefer QF, EK, QR, CX, SQ. The Frequent Flyer earn on BA by QF members has been made much less attractive since the BA/QF JV was dissolved, so choosing BA over QF is actually a disincentive for QF Frequent Flyers

On the other hand, post-Brexit, the UK and Australia/NZ/Canada are mooted to be getting closer together again (bring back the EMPIRE!) with changes to visa and immigration rules to allow freer movement of people between the UK and Australia/NZ/Canada. So perhaps BA are preparing for that. But then again, NZ just sold their LHR slots, so...
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:30 am

Galwayman wrote:
BA must have better uses for the frames it wastes on SYD . Oz is just in the wrong place for a UK. airline . Once QF launch a non stop time for BA to drop it and feed Qatar or CX

Seeing as you have NO IDEA what their (1) cost, (2) opportunity cost, (3) standalone profit/loss, nor (4) network profit/loss, are for their SYD station; as a whole, as a 5th freedom, nor as a direct 1stop......

....what is the point in even writing a post like this?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
BealineV953
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:47 am

Galwayman wrote:
BA must have better uses for the frames it wastes on SYD. Oz is just in the wrong place for a UK airline. Once QF launch a non stop time for BA to drop it and feed Qatar or CX


A few years ago the BA service to SYD was indeed unprofitable. The 'Save SYD' route review led to a number of changes, the most obvious being the move to the 777.
The last I heard LHR-SIN-SYD was making good money.
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Arion640
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Re: Rumour: BA A35K LHR-MEL Pilot Training

Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:58 pm

BealineV953 wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
BA must have better uses for the frames it wastes on SYD. Oz is just in the wrong place for a UK airline. Once QF launch a non stop time for BA to drop it and feed Qatar or CX


A few years ago the BA service to SYD was indeed unprofitable. The 'Save SYD' route review led to a number of changes, the most obvious being the move to the 777.
The last I heard LHR-SIN-SYD was making good money.


It would be gone by now if it wasn’t making good money I feel.

For some reason, people want this route to be withdrawn. There’s always niches that need to be filled.

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