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aemoreira1981
Posts: 3608
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:50 pm

LY is also parking virtually its entire fleet except for the B789s. Only these destinations will be served for the next two weeks:

NYC (JFK and EWR) — this can operate on O&D and the belly cargo will probably be full.
LHR
CDG
JNB
YYZ

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... 0-28mar20/
 
Elementalism
Posts: 602
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:03 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:52 pm

This seems to be imploding like 08. Delta parking 300 planes is crazy. They dont expect demand to come back for some time if they are doing that.
 
opticalilyushin
Posts: 788
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:35 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:52 pm

lesfalls wrote:
opticalilyushin wrote:
I'm due to fly from Europe to Thailand tomorrow, at the moment everything is still ok, but it feels bad having to check and recheck the news every hour. Airline call centres are almost impossible to connect with right now.

Isn't there a mandatory quarantine for europeans since a month if they enter Thailand though?


Only if coming from Italy, from what I've read online. Some other countries seem to require a form of self monitoring, but most of Europe has no restriction
 
Danny
Posts: 3752
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:55 pm

IWMBH wrote:
Danny wrote:
From 00:00 local on Sunday Poland shuts down ALL international flights.


So people in a foreign country that can't return before Sunday are screwed?


Essentially yes. Limited charter fights will be allowed. Citizens of Poland are allowed to return by land subject to 14 days quarantine.
 
smartplane
Posts: 1524
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:23 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:57 pm

By now every airline has been in discussion with all their lenders and lessors, has had lines cancelled or not renewed, has asked for lease, interest and repayment holidays, has tried to defer or re-finance deliveries, has sought to reduce monthly lease charges by adding to final balloon payments...............

A significant difference to previous aviation crises, is air frame and engine OEM's are not in a position to assist their customers. This time Airbus, Boeing, GE and RR may need help from their customers, by not deferring deliveries and withholding monthly maintenance fees.

More problematical is the scale of this downturn. Even the most willing financiers and lessors are overwhelmed by the volume and magnitude of requests.

Government intervention is required, but how much financial capacity do they ultimately have, and which bureaucrats pick the winners and losers? Some countries are going to need external assistance themselves, let alone worrying about their airlines, airports, ports and related industries.
Last edited by smartplane on Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8148
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:03 pm

Elementalism wrote:
This seems to be imploding like 08. Delta parking 300 planes is crazy. They don't expect demand to come back for some time if they are doing that.

Its not coming back anytime soon for a variety of reasons.
Forward bookings and yield for international are trashed for the rest of 2020. There are sizable number of people who are going to be tepid about taking discretionary international trips, particularly pure leisure. It will take a while, because people in large are going to go weeks/months before feeling comfortable booking again

Domestic may come back quicker and can salvage maybe Q3 & Q4 at least from leisure / non-business travel.
Business travel while it will come back but it will be gradual as its not going to come back like flipping a switch, companies will ease back into it based the need/purpose of the trip. Operations criteria first before more discretionary training/conferences/recruiting stuff. Not to mention yields.

This doesn't mention the potential economic hangover that is going to impact business and consumer spend.
 
32andBelow
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Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:04 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Elementalism wrote:
This seems to be imploding like 08. Delta parking 300 planes is crazy. They don't expect demand to come back for some time if they are doing that.

Its not coming back anytime soon for a variety of reasons.
Forward bookings and yield for international are trashed for the rest of 2020. There are sizable number of people who are going to be tepid about taking discretionary international trips, particularly pure leisure. It will take a while, because people in large are going to go weeks/months before feeling comfortable booking again

Domestic may come back quicker and can salvage maybe Q3 & Q4 at least from leisure / non-business travel.
Business travel while it will come back but it will be gradual as its not going to come back like flipping a switch, companies will ease back into it based the need/purpose of the trip. Operations criteria first before more discretionary training/conferences/recruiting stuff. Not to mention yields.

This doesn't mention the potential economic hangover that is going to impact business and consumer spend.

I wonder if more businesses we going to realize. We don’t need to fly all over the place to do these stupid meetings.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:11 pm

I think bookings come back far quicker than after 9/11. For months, even years thereafter, people were terrified about the prospect of a terrorist trying to take down their plane, such as the shoe bomber incident. Not so once the coronavirus fears abate, particularly once an effective treatment or vaccine becomes available - I think you'll see demand come roaring back.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Lootess
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:15 pm

Considering President Trump just said they are re-considering the ban to possibly include the UK and or others, it's just going to get worse for international travel.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:18 pm

Cyprus closing its borders as well - so Larnaca and Paphos airports will likely shut down pretty soon
 
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AAR
Posts: 56
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Countries closing access - Denmark close tomorrow

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:21 pm

Only Danes can come into Denmark if abroard. Visitors must prove why they need to visit Denmark. Nabour countries are informed. To avoid the Covid-19.. No flights/ferries/rail is expected in or out of Denmark.

https://jyllands-posten.dk/indland/ECE1 ... dag-kl-12/

How do other countries react ?
 
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Aesma
Posts: 13237
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:24 pm

Revelation wrote:
Interesting tweet:

Gilbert Ott | @godsavethepoint
Breaking: travel agents tell me...
• Air Baltic
• Norwegian
• Korean Airlines
• Cathay Pacific
• TUI
• Virgin Australia
• Kuwait Airways
• Vietnam Airlines
• Air Malta
Are on stop sale. This means (travel agents) can't offer financial protection due to solvency concerns.

Ref: https://twitter.com/godsavethepoint/sta ... 8337793024

Another brick in the wall?


Surprised to see Vietnam Airlines in the list, isn't it government owned ?

Before the French government announced massive, unlimited help to French companies (Merkel did the same for Germany), someone had already asked the economy minister about AF, and he had answered that the French government "won't let AF fail".
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Countries closing access - Denmark close tomorrow

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:25 pm

Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Cyprus and Ukraine either have done or are about to do the same. I imagine more will follow
 
Blerg
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Re: Countries closing access - Denmark close tomorrow

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:28 pm

So I guess transfer passengers remain unaffected since they are technically not entering Denmark?
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:29 pm

Why is Kuwait Airways on the no-failure-insurance list ? It's a small state-owned airline in a very rich country
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:32 pm

This is gut wrenching. I'm thinking about my family and friends in the industry. With the stunning news from Delta, I hope those there keep their jobs.

EA CO AS wrote:
I think bookings come back far quicker than after 9/11. For months, even years thereafter, people were terrified about the prospect of a terrorist trying to take down their plane, such as the shoe bomber incident. Not so once the coronavirus fears abate, particularly once an effective treatment or vaccine becomes available - I think you'll see demand come roaring back.


I really, really hope you're right. But I have a hard time seeing it bounce back quickly. While I think the virus fear decline will bounce back more quickly, I'm concerned the overall economy hit will be similar and take time to come back.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:33 pm

Thanks for the well wishes!
I hope EA CO AS is right, but I think any rebound will be slow/steady.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
LNCS0930
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:17 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:35 pm

32andBelow wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Elementalism wrote:
This seems to be imploding like 08. Delta parking 300 planes is crazy. They don't expect demand to come back for some time if they are doing that.

Its not coming back anytime soon for a variety of reasons.
Forward bookings and yield for international are trashed for the rest of 2020. There are sizable number of people who are going to be tepid about taking discretionary international trips, particularly pure leisure. It will take a while, because people in large are going to go weeks/months before feeling comfortable booking again

Domestic may come back quicker and can salvage maybe Q3 & Q4 at least from leisure / non-business travel.
Business travel while it will come back but it will be gradual as its not going to come back like flipping a switch, companies will ease back into it based the need/purpose of the trip. Operations criteria first before more discretionary training/conferences/recruiting stuff. Not to mention yields.

This doesn't mention the potential economic hangover that is going to impact business and consumer spend.

I wonder if more businesses we going to realize. We don’t need to fly all over the place to do these stupid meetings.


No because socializing is huge these days. They love person to person interaction and things such as that. Some maybe not probably not most
 
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Aesma
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:35 pm

Why would anyone take an unpaid leave ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
ual4life
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:38 pm

Because some of us can afford it
NNVII
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:39 pm

Beats me, but there's often more demand than one might think.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
ScottB
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Re: Countries closing access - Denmark close tomorrow

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:44 pm

AAR wrote:
No flights/ferries/rail is expected in or out of Denmark.


Blerg wrote:
So I guess transfer passengers remain unaffected since they are technically not entering Denmark?


Might be difficult to transfer if there are no flights.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:44 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
mham001 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
Still nothing from AS, maybe they are still in "wait and see" mode :banghead:


Curious, why is this such an issue for you?


Seconded!


Why am I concerned that it doesn't seem like one of the largest US airlines isn't acting appropriately?
or
Why am I commenting about what an airline is doing? (the point of this forum)
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
Blerg
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Re: Countries closing access - Denmark close tomorrow

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:47 pm

Cyprus just announced that from 15.03 for fifteen days they are closing off the island for anyone who is not a Cypriot or who doesn't live and work on the island. All others will not be allowed to enter the island republic. Crossing from the occupied north is also restricted.

A flight from Bucharest arrived with 74 passengers and two on it had a fever. They were immediately transferred to Nicosia for supervision while the crew and other passengers were sent home for self-quarantine.
 
jayunited
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:52 pm

Aesma wrote:
Why would anyone take an unpaid leave ?


There are a lot of people who take unpaid leave for many different reason's, it really is a popular program which is why you are seeing it offered.

However after looking at today's press conference it is clear no US carrier will get enough employees to take unpaid leave and unfortunately layoffs will be coming. US carriers like other carriers around the world will have to temporally park large portions of their fleet.
 
smokeybandit
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:53 pm

Aesma wrote:
Why would anyone take an unpaid leave ?


Because paid leave, particularly extended leave, often isn't an option
 
32andBelow
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Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:02 pm

I think the airlines will be super cautious laying off pilots. They don’t want to be behind the ball when it comes back. It’ll be bloody for flight attendants and support staff.
 
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chepos
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:03 pm

airtechy wrote:
I assume that AA and UAL are working on a similar "e-mail" to their employees. It will be interesting to see how they compare to Delta's. Also how many people will take a voluntary leave of absence. I think salaries and fuel are their biggest expenses. At least fuel is cheap now .. relatively.

AA sent their email last night. Parking the 767 and starting to park the 757 (gone after summer 21) and a host of flying reductions. The announcement is way upthread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
LNCS0930
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:05 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
This is gut wrenching. I'm thinking about my family and friends in the industry. With the stunning news from Delta, I hope those there keep their jobs.

EA CO AS wrote:
I think bookings come back far quicker than after 9/11. For months, even years thereafter, people were terrified about the prospect of a terrorist trying to take down their plane, such as the shoe bomber incident. Not so once the coronavirus fears abate, particularly once an effective treatment or vaccine becomes available - I think you'll see demand come roaring back.


I really, really hope you're right. But I have a hard time seeing it bounce back quickly. While I think the virus fear decline will bounce back more quickly, I'm concerned the overall economy hit will be similar and take time to come back.


If the current measures and mild weather slow this markedly domestic bookings will probably make a big comeback for June-September. Thereafter people will be wary of the risk it returns in fall and may be reluctant. INT may not come back til spring or summer 2021 after a vaccine or most have been infected and are immune.
 
LNCS0930
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Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:17 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:06 pm

smokeybandit wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Why would anyone take an unpaid leave ?


Because paid leave, particularly extended leave, often isn't an option


Can you collect unemployment on a voluntary unpaid leave though? You can collect it on a temporary furlough but my memory tells me you cannot collect it on the former.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:10 pm

LNCS0930 wrote:
smokeybandit wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Why would anyone take an unpaid leave ?


Because paid leave, particularly extended leave, often isn't an option


Can you collect unemployment on a voluntary unpaid leave though? You can collect it on a temporary furlough but my memory tells me you cannot collect it on the former.


United has said they will not contest any unemplyment claims right now if you take voluntary leave. Whether or not your state approves it is up to them.
 
ZazuPIT
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Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:32 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:10 pm

32andBelow wrote:
I think the airlines will be super cautious laying off pilots. They don’t want to be behind the ball when it comes back. It’ll be bloody for flight attendants and support staff.


It's going to be fall at the earliest before people start flying again en masse
Last edited by ZazuPIT on Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: Countries closing access - Denmark close tomorrow

Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:13 pm

Blerg wrote:
So I guess transfer passengers remain unaffected since they are technically not entering Denmark?

One might not "technically" (or legally) enter the country during a transfer; however, you are physically entering it.
I doubt the Danes are not looking at transfer passengers as "not entering Denmark"; the virus doesn't care about that.
 
RvA
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:13 pm

Aesma wrote:
Why would anyone take an unpaid leave ?


Because most European countries at least will cover 60-80% of salaries. Better to help the companies survive and take the government support than walk around doing nothing and costing the company money while it fights for survival. Not exactly good for your future career either I’m sure.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:17 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Also, DL has announced it plans to park as many as 300 planes. What I see being parked:

Remaining MD-80/90 fleet, permanently
All B752s without Delta One
All PW and six door B763s.
All B738s
Most of the A320s, some permanently as the oldest ones are approaching 30.
Some of the PW A332s and A333s, but not any of the 242t frames
All B772(ER)

Of the models I listed, all are generally fully owned except the four 73Hs subleased from G3.

The A319s and 73Gs are needed for specific missions.

I do expect United to follow suit by grounding the entire 777 fleet (except for the B77Ws) and possibly the p.s. fleet. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the A320s parked either as they’re up in age except for the ones recently bought from AerCap (ex-CZ).



Not all 300 are mainline jets. I heard from a Delta friend it’s 140 mainline and 160 regional.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:24 pm

RvA wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Why would anyone take an unpaid leave ?


Because most European countries at least will cover 60-80% of salaries. Better to help the companies survive and take the government support than walk around doing nothing and costing the company money while it fights for survival. Not exactly good for your future career either I’m sure.


So will the airline call you back, and see you positively as you helped it ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
RvA
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:25 pm

KLM announced to employees today that all 33k employees will go on a reduced working schedule (partial “unpaid” leave) as of April and some jobs will be lost. BA said the same about jobs getting lost. LHG said today they don’t see jobs getting lost permanently but will make use of the same reduced work schedule option too.
 
RvA
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:25 pm

Aesma wrote:
RvA wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Why would anyone take an unpaid leave ?


Because most European countries at least will cover 60-80% of salaries. Better to help the companies survive and take the government support than walk around doing nothing and costing the company money while it fights for survival. Not exactly good for your future career either I’m sure.


So will the airline call you back, and see you positively as you helped it ?


You’re technically still in your job so once it’s over you just go back to work.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8261
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:37 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Also, DL has announced it plans to park as many as 300 planes. What I see being parked:

Remaining MD-80/90 fleet, permanently
All B752s without Delta One
All PW and six door B763s.
All B738s
Most of the A320s, some permanently as the oldest ones are approaching 30.
Some of the PW A332s and A333s, but not any of the 242t frames
All B772(ER)

Of the models I listed, all are generally fully owned except the four 73Hs subleased from G3.

The A319s and 73Gs are needed for specific missions.

I do expect United to follow suit by grounding the entire 777 fleet (except for the B77Ws) and possibly the p.s. fleet. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the A320s parked either as they’re up in age except for the ones recently bought from AerCap (ex-CZ).



Not all 300 are mainline jets. I heard from a Delta friend it’s 140 mainline and 160 regional.


I don't think that list will prove very correct at all. This isn't an operating cost problem, like the July '08 fuel price spike or the sustained high fuel prices of 2011. 738s are still very viable planes, in remaining life, range, and fuel costs.

They simplify pilot work groups/bidding if they entirely eliminate a type. Frankly I don't see them rushing to eliminate MD-88/MD-90s -- fly them to the next heavy check (or 12/31/20, as announced for the 88s).

757s have range and ETOPs capabilities that are useful. With 199 seats the economics are still pretty good. DL still has a common pilot group for 757/763, does it not? So getting rid of a few 757s or 763s doesn't eliminate a work group.

If the goal is parking/retiring 140 mainline, I see them cutting a little bit of everything that hasn't been delivered in the last five years, and the oldest 320s, 757s, 767s, MD-90s (along with -88s) going into retirement.
 
NonTechAvLover
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:40 pm

ZazuPIT wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
I think the airlines will be super cautious laying off pilots. They don’t want to be behind the ball when it comes back. It’ll be bloody for flight attendants and support staff.


It's going to be fall at the earliest before people start flying again en masse


Isn’t there some claim out there to the effect that the virus’s activity will subside with the arrival of Spring and that it will come back with a vengeance with cold weather in the Fall? If that is true, then the aviation industry may be hit with a one-two punch.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:41 pm

Parking an entire fleet is costly as pilots from that work group will move to other airplanes which require re-training. A senior MD88 captain will not be sent to the street because all of the MD's are parked while a junior 737 captain keeps his job. That is not how it works. The MD88 captain will exercise his seniority and bid into the 737 pool, which may bump someone else out into a different fleet or base. That is an expensive domino effect. They will take a little from every fleet probably.
 
onwFan
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:47 pm

I guess situations like these would also make ‘focus cities’ most vulnerable, like the ones DL has been attempting? I would assume airlines would rather have people connect through their hubs (which themselves would have severely reduced service) as much as possible?
 
ual763
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Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 11:46 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:05 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Also, DL has announced it plans to park as many as 300 planes. What I see being parked:

Remaining MD-80/90 fleet, permanently
All B752s without Delta One
All PW and six door B763s.
All B738s
Most of the A320s, some permanently as the oldest ones are approaching 30.
Some of the PW A332s and A333s, but not any of the 242t frames
All B772(ER)

Of the models I listed, all are generally fully owned except the four 73Hs subleased from G3.

The A319s and 73Gs are needed for specific missions.

I do expect United to follow suit by grounding the entire 777 fleet (except for the B77Ws) and possibly the p.s. fleet. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the A320s parked either as they’re up in age except for the ones recently bought from AerCap (ex-CZ).



Not all 300 are mainline jets. I heard from a Delta friend it’s 140 mainline and 160 regional.


Doesn’t look good for Compass. They’ve said there WILL be furloughs. Then again, Compass has been in hot water long before this. But, this may just be their final nail in the coffin.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8148
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:08 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Also, DL has announced it plans to park as many as 300 planes. What I see being parked:

Remaining MD-80/90 fleet, permanently
All B752s without Delta One
All PW and six door B763s.
All B738s
Most of the A320s, some permanently as the oldest ones are approaching 30.
Some of the PW A332s and A333s, but not any of the 242t frames
All B772(ER)

Of the models I listed, all are generally fully owned except the four 73Hs subleased from G3.

The A319s and 73Gs are needed for specific missions.

I do expect United to follow suit by grounding the entire 777 fleet (except for the B77Ws) and possibly the p.s. fleet. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the A320s parked either as they’re up in age except for the ones recently bought from AerCap (ex-CZ).



Not all 300 are mainline jets. I heard from a Delta friend it’s 140 mainline and 160 regional.


I don't think that list will prove very correct at all. This isn't an operating cost problem, like the July '08 fuel price spike or the sustained high fuel prices of 2011. 738s are still very viable planes, in remaining life, range, and fuel costs.

They simplify pilot work groups/bidding if they entirely eliminate a type. Frankly I don't see them rushing to eliminate MD-88/MD-90s -- fly them to the next heavy check (or 12/31/20, as announced for the 88s).

757s have range and ETOPs capabilities that are useful. With 199 seats the economics are still pretty good. DL still has a common pilot group for 757/763, does it not? So getting rid of a few 757s or 763s doesn't eliminate a work group.

If the goal is parking/retiring 140 mainline, I see them cutting a little bit of everything that hasn't been delivered in the last five years, and the oldest 320s, 757s, 767s, MD-90s (along with -88s) going into retirement.

Right now its going to be all about cash flow and minimizing short-term expenses.
I expect you'll see aircraft of many fleet types to be parked for short and long term.
Basically anything pending any upcoming maintenance checks of any type will be parked.
Parking and entire fleet type en-mass is challenging because of pilot pools and contractual payments, so every fleet will be brought down to minimium hours, excess aircraft parked.
This will be interesting. You'll probably see plenty of newer and older parked all to reduce near-term costs and preserve cash flow
 
ual763
Posts: 1027
Joined: Sun May 14, 2017 11:46 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:11 pm

onwFan wrote:
I guess situations like these would also make ‘focus cities’ most vulnerable, like the ones DL has been attempting? I would assume airlines would rather have people connect through their hubs (which themselves would have severely reduced service) as much as possible?


Agreed. The focus cities will definitely take a large hit. These are also the cities where international flights have been cut first. In Delta’s case, AUS, BOS, MCO will most likely take very big cuts. JFK will be hurt very badly, mainly because of the international percentage of flights there on Delta. With Disney World shutdown, MCO will be terrible for Delta. There’s no escaping that one. Really the entire systems of all airlines will be effected, but these markets will see the most drastic changes initially.
Last edited by ual763 on Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
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Midwestindy
Posts: 5359
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:11 pm

onwFan wrote:
I guess situations like these would also make ‘focus cities’ most vulnerable, like the ones DL has been attempting? I would assume airlines would rather have people connect through their hubs (which themselves would have severely reduced service) as much as possible?


DL has already reduced numerous p2p flights for April/May:
RDU-LAS
CVG-LAS/SFO/YYZ
IND-MCO
LAS-PDX/BOS
e.t.c

I assume by tomorrow the cuts will be significantly worse, it looks like AA already pulled AUS-BOS/SJC off the schedule through August. I assume AA BOS-IND/RDU is next
Last edited by Midwestindy on Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
pdp
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:14 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:14 pm

The Warszawa FIR will be closed to all inbound and outbound international flights for 10 days from the 15th: https://www.lot.com/ee/en/international ... suspension

Presumably overflying will still be permitted.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5325
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:18 pm

People should watch Joe Rogan interview with a leading epidemiologist. This thing might last a few months.

It seems way optimistic for any carriers to not cut.

With today's mco news, wn, b6, nk and f9 are all going to have to cut at least 50% capacity there. There is no way around it.
 
dc10lover
Posts: 1594
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:23 pm

"The Economic Impact On The AirLine Industry Really, Really Hurts Me.

I Wouldn't Be Surprising If Etihad Airways Went Bankrupt. Government Bail Out Is Best.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:28 pm

Lufthansa Group cutting its flying to the USA to just:

FRA and ZRH to each of EWR and ORD
BRU to IAD

I wouldn’t be surprised to see TP cut back USA service to just LIS-EWR on the A321neo(ACF).

WN can park older 73Gs, B6 older A320s, and NK its owned A319s. I expect NK and B6 to defer deliveries.
Last edited by aemoreira1981 on Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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