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SCQ83
Posts: 5895
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:31 pm

ual763 wrote:
onwFan wrote:
I guess situations like these would also make ‘focus cities’ most vulnerable, like the ones DL has been attempting? I would assume airlines would rather have people connect through their hubs (which themselves would have severely reduced service) as much as possible?


Agreed. The focus cities will definitely take a large hit. These are also the cities where international flights have been cut first. In Delta’s case, AUS, BOS, MCO will most likely take very big cuts. JFK will be hurt very badly, mainly because of the international percentage of flights there on Delta. With Disney World shutdown, MCO will be terrible for Delta. There’s no escaping that one. Really the entire systems of all airlines will be effected, but these markets will see the most drastic changes initially.


I also imagine cities that have been very trendy with international carriers lately will be hit more, because those are thinner and less consolidated routes. For instance Boston and its plethora of new carriers over the last few years (JL, LY, HU, EK, QR, TK, OS, CM, LA, KE, AT, TP). I wouldn't be surprised some of them leave and just refocus on NYC like in the old days. Or SJC losing all long-haul service.

In Europe, I think the big three low-cost (easyJet, Wizz Air, Ryanair) will cancel definitely dozens of "thin" routes that even on good times did not make a lot of sense.
 
LNCS0930
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:37 pm

tphuang wrote:
People should watch Joe Rogan interview with a leading epidemiologist. This thing might last a few months.

It seems way optimistic for any carriers to not cut.

With today's mco news, wn, b6, nk and f9 are all going to have to cut at least 50% capacity there. There is no way around it.


It’ll be worst in the next 6-7 weeks. It’s going to go well past that though in limited capacity and people simply have to understand the world won’t be virus free for 12-15 months. At some point countries and carriers will just have to accept the fact it’s out there but the worst is behind and start to move on from it
 
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Aesma
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:39 pm

I'm just thinking about something, if you still travel, can you still get travel insurance ?
 
davidjohnson6
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Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:44 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51871776

Travel insurance in the UK is still available - but a lot of new policies have an exclusion cause around coronavirus. I imagine that insurers in other countries have also decided that the risk of an expensive claim related to this is just too high

This will of course strongly discourage people from booking a new trip until borders reopen and quarantine policies are relaxed - ie not any time soon
Last edited by davidjohnson6 on Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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ACCS300
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:50 pm

Canada to limit international flight to a small number of airports. I've been hearing it will be two, my guess is YYZ and YVR.

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/transport-canada-to-limit-international-arrivals-to-specific-airports-164512430.html
 
mxaxai
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:56 pm

IWMBH wrote:
Danny wrote:
From 00:00 local on Sunday Poland shuts down ALL international flights.


So people in a foreign country that can't return before Sunday are screwed?

They would be quarantined for 14 days upon arrival in any case.
 
LNCS0930
Posts: 232
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:13 pm

I’m thinking if we took guesses here 3 weeks ago as to which transoceanic stations would likely be least impacted by 4/1 and easiest for the 3 majors to fly to that nobody would have said NRT HND and ICN. It very well may be those 3 in the top 3.
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:34 pm

2nd2none wrote:
Denmark :Tomorrow at noon (March 14 2020) all borders into Denmark will be closed to foreigners. Only foreigners with a significant reason will be allowed to enter the country.

CPH (Kastrup Airport) is just as much the local airport for southern Sweden as for eastern Denmark. Planes, which bring travelers back home to CPH, often bring as many Swedes as Danes. Swedes who often have their car parked at CPH.

Hope that being a southern Swede will qualify as a "significant reason" for being allowed to enter Denmark through CPH. The authorities so far seem to have ignored the issue.
 
mkorpal333
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:36 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Lufthansa Group cutting its flying to the USA to just:

FRA and ZRH to each of EWR and ORD
BRU to IAD

I wouldn’t be surprised to see TP cut back USA service to just LIS-EWR on the A321neo(ACF).

WN can park older 73Gs, B6 older A320s, and NK its owned A319s. I expect NK and B6 to defer deliveries.


As of an hour ago, the DEN-FRA LH flight was still bookable in April. Any idea when they will actually suspend these routes?
 
716131
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:38 pm

JAL, ANA has further cut flights wiithin Japan. Also reducing International flights as well.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/ ... el-demand/
 
910A
Posts: 1941
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:39 pm

AirAfreak wrote:
Air France will serve 7 destinations to the USA from Paris nonstop as from 14 March 2020. Moreover, Air France will operate its’ 3x/weekly Los Angeles - Pape’ete services as planned. Source: http://www.airfrance.fr


French Bee will reduced service to 1x week on the ORY-PPT route. Instead of stopping at SFO they will use PTP.

Air Tahiti Nui is reducing service CDG-PPT to 2x a week, and is looking for a spot in Canada to make the pit stop.
https://www.tahiti-infos.com/Paris-Tahi ... D5DhRdDzHI
 
LNCS0930
Posts: 232
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:51 pm

910A wrote:
AirAfreak wrote:
Air France will serve 7 destinations to the USA from Paris nonstop as from 14 March 2020. Moreover, Air France will operate its’ 3x/weekly Los Angeles - Pape’ete services as planned. Source: http://www.airfrance.fr


French Bee will reduced service to 1x week on the ORY-PPT route. Instead of stopping at SFO they will use PTP.

Air Tahiti Nui is reducing service CDG-PPT to 2x a week, and is looking for a spot in Canada to make the pit stop.
https://www.tahiti-infos.com/Paris-Tahi ... D5DhRdDzHI


I have been hearing for years that AFR has been trying to dump LAX-PPT because they base an entire crew there for it and it’s a pain
 
deltairlines
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:56 pm

Delta's flight schedule to Europe is being adjusted as of Monday evening departures.

1x/day, not sure equipment yet:

ATL-AMS/CDG/LHR
DTW-AMS/LHR
JFK-DUB/LHR

JFK-BOM is included in the cuts. Africa flying remains unchanged.

https://news.delta.com/delta-reduces-us ... jfk-mumbai
 
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chepos
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:07 am

deltairlines wrote:
Delta's flight schedule to Europe is being adjusted as of Monday evening departures.

1x/day, not sure equipment yet:

ATL-AMS/CDG/LHR
DTW-AMS/LHR
JFK-DUB/LHR

JFK-BOM is included in the cuts. Africa flying remains unchanged.

https://news.delta.com/delta-reduces-us ... jfk-mumbai

I am assuming all BOS-Europe flying is being suspended?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
DDR
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:15 am

Wonder what will happen to Delta's SEA hub. How much will they cut, or will they operate these flights at a loss to compete with AS.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:36 am

LNCS0930 wrote:
910A wrote:
AirAfreak wrote:
Air France will serve 7 destinations to the USA from Paris nonstop as from 14 March 2020. Moreover, Air France will operate its’ 3x/weekly Los Angeles - Pape’ete services as planned. Source: http://www.airfrance.fr


French Bee will reduced service to 1x week on the ORY-PPT route. Instead of stopping at SFO they will use PTP.

Air Tahiti Nui is reducing service CDG-PPT to 2x a week, and is looking for a spot in Canada to make the pit stop.
https://www.tahiti-infos.com/Paris-Tahi ... D5DhRdDzHI


I have been hearing for years that AFR has been trying to dump LAX-PPT because they base an entire crew there for it and it’s a pain


Why not shift it to YVR, where immigration might be less of a pain?
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:48 am

910A wrote:
AirAfreak wrote:
Air France will serve 7 destinations to the USA from Paris nonstop as from 14 March 2020. Moreover, Air France will operate its’ 3x/weekly Los Angeles - Pape’ete services as planned. Source: http://www.airfrance.fr


French Bee will reduced service to 1x week on the ORY-PPT route. Instead of stopping at SFO they will use PTP.

Air Tahiti Nui is reducing service CDG-PPT to 2x a week, and is looking for a spot in Canada to make the pit stop.
https://www.tahiti-infos.com/Paris-Tahi ... D5DhRdDzHI


Thats fascinating. Will make for an interesting routing ORY-PTP-PPT. Defitnetly going to try tracking it.
 
Derico
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:51 am

Question: does one country banning flights coming in to the country with passengers effectively kill the route? Or can a flight conceivably go one way only? I'm just asking from an authorization point of view. I'm sure it is economically pointless.
 
alasizon
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:57 am

Derico wrote:
Question: does one country banning flights coming in to the country with passengers effectively kill the route? Or can a flight conceivably go one way only? I'm just asking from an authorization point of view. I'm sure it is economically pointless.


If the route is short enough, it is possible theoretically, but the economics also obviously kill it.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:24 am

lesfalls wrote:
910A wrote:
AirAfreak wrote:
Air France will serve 7 destinations to the USA from Paris nonstop as from 14 March 2020. Moreover, Air France will operate its’ 3x/weekly Los Angeles - Pape’ete services as planned. Source: http://www.airfrance.fr


French Bee will reduced service to 1x week on the ORY-PPT route. Instead of stopping at SFO they will use PTP.

Air Tahiti Nui is reducing service CDG-PPT to 2x a week, and is looking for a spot in Canada to make the pit stop.
https://www.tahiti-infos.com/Paris-Tahi ... D5DhRdDzHI


Thats fascinating. Will make for an interesting routing ORY-PTP-PPT. Defitnetly going to try tracking it.


Will the ORY-PTP and PPT-PTP legs be available for booking separately?
 
UPS757Pilot
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:32 am

Could the major pax carriers fly belly freight for profit with no passengers onboard? Asia freight costs are approaching $10 per kilo. There’s got to be some money to be made with a 777 or the like.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:46 am

Just a reminder that this thread is discussing the aviation impacts of this pandemic only.

Other discussion related to covid-19 should be directed to the thread in the Non Aviation Forum, which can be found here viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1438989

✈️ atcsundevil
 
WidebodyPTV
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:53 am

DDR wrote:
Wonder what will happen to Delta's SEA hub. How much will they cut, or will they operate these flights at a loss to compete with AS.


DL's made a huge investment at SEA, and I'm sure it'll do everything it can to salvage it. That said, if the hysteria doesn't end quickly, DL will need to conserve cash, any unquestionably SEA will be disproportionately impacted since many of its routes hadn't matured yet.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:57 am

UPS757Pilot wrote:
Could the major pax carriers fly belly freight for profit with no passengers onboard? Asia freight costs are approaching $10 per kilo. There’s got to be some money to be made with a 777 or the like.


Cathay Dragon is doing just that, using A330s...flying passenger frames with no passengers (except maybe loadmasters).

As for Qantas to the USA, these equipment changes:

To SFO from
BNE: Cancelled
MEL: Cancelled
SYD: B744 instead of B789

To LAX from:
BNE: B789 (no changes - continues on to JFK)
MEL: B789 instead of A388
SYD: A388 (no changes)

To DFW from:
SYD: B789 instead of A388 - basically more than half a percent reduction in capacity.

To ORD from:
BNE: Pushed back to mid-September.

Also, all service to LHR will now be via PER, with QF1/2 moving to SYD-PER-LHR. SIN service will become terminator service. (Overall PER-LHR will be double daily, all on the B789.)

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... f-12mar20/
 
LNCS0930
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:09 am

I wouldn’t be shocked to see all US carriers forbidden to go to JNB EZE SCL SYD AKL etc from 5/1-9/1. Particularly if we see this massively begin to improve in April they may put it in as a precautionary measure to lock the southern hemi out through summer
 
JayBCN
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:12 am

ORD-PTP-PPT would be the longest domestic flight ever, wouldn’t it?
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:23 am

onwFan wrote:
I guess situations like these would also make ‘focus cities’ most vulnerable, like the ones DL has been attempting? I would assume airlines would rather have people connect through their hubs (which themselves would have severely reduced service) as much as possible?

Yes, I would think the non-hub focus cities get chopped, fast.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:27 am

ual763 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Also, DL has announced it plans to park as many as 300 planes. What I see being parked:

Remaining MD-80/90 fleet, permanently
All B752s without Delta One
All PW and six door B763s.
All B738s
Most of the A320s, some permanently as the oldest ones are approaching 30.
Some of the PW A332s and A333s, but not any of the 242t frames
All B772(ER)

Of the models I listed, all are generally fully owned except the four 73Hs subleased from G3.

The A319s and 73Gs are needed for specific missions.

I do expect United to follow suit by grounding the entire 777 fleet (except for the B77Ws) and possibly the p.s. fleet. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the A320s parked either as they’re up in age except for the ones recently bought from AerCap (ex-CZ).



Not all 300 are mainline jets. I heard from a Delta friend it’s 140 mainline and 160 regional.


Doesn’t look good for Compass. They’ve said there WILL be furloughs. Then again, Compass has been in hot water long before this. But, this may just be their final nail in the coffin.

I can easily see the remaking Compass DL planes getting parked. They have to go through checks and refresh anyway before they get passed on. The same for Transtates. No idea about Blount, the 550’s could easily go back to Skywest.
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:33 am

DDR wrote:
Wonder what will happen to Delta's SEA hub. How much will they cut, or will they operate these flights at a loss to compete with AS.

This is an emergency, I imagine everything gets cut to the bone.
 
JayBCN
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:52 am

And I meant to say ORY-PTP-PPT would be the longest domestic route, wouldn’t it?
 
alasizon
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:57 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
the 550’s could easily go back to Skywest.


Sending the 550s back to SkyWest does nothing though to save costs as there is still a leasing bill that will come due. It costs almost the same to just park them.
 
BCal Dc10
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:19 am

Aesma wrote:
I'm just thinking about something, if you still travel, can you still get travel insurance ?


I just saw something online, then your post, and it gave me cause to reply to you - I heard companies like AXA in the UK are starting to put clauses into policies to remove liability from Corona Virus related claims. So you will have to read any policies very carefully before signing up.

Here is the link to the story I am referring to. Hope you find this helpful! Cheers!

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51871776
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 747
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: Delta's Drastic Response to COVID-19

Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:33 am

Waterbomber2 wrote:
Corpsnerd09 wrote:
"An overall capacity reduction in the next few months of 40 percent – the largest capacity reduction in Delta's history, including 2001.

Elimination of flying to continental Europe for the next 30 days, which could be extended. We will maintain service to London.

Parking up to 300 aircraft as our reduced capacity requires a substantially smaller fleet.

Deferring new aircraft deliveries to manage our reduced capacity and preserve cash.

Reducing capital expenditures by at least $2 billion for the year, including delaying aircraft mods, IT initiatives and other opportunities to preserve cash.
Ws
Immediately offering voluntary short-term, unpaid leaves as well as an immediate hiring freeze.
Substantially reducing the use of consultants and contractors."

Damn, you think LATAM will refund then the 2 Billion investment?

https://news.delta.com/ceo-ed-bastian-d ... d-business


It's clear now that preserving cash is the main theme of this crisis. Delta did a good job earning money but have very little to show for it as they either reinvested or distributed their earnings.

This proves that the industry has learned nothing from both 9/11 and the great financial crisis.

Share buybacks? What does it even accomplish?
Why not keep the cash on the balance sheet, that should have the same effect in terms of shareholder value. If shareholders were interested in cash rather than value, they wouldn't be parking their money in airlines anyway.

Ah all these corporate giants. At the end of the day, when the tide goes out, their overpaid managers are discovered swimming naked.

Seems like anybody can run an airline these days.
Even chipmunks do a better job of keeping food for leaner times.


I have to agree somewhat, but at same time airlines exist to fly passengers and right now there aren't any. I don't think an airline is expected to survive when they have virtually zero load factor, especially when this situation has no end in sight. All it takes is a few passengers manifesting covid-19 on flights a few months from now to start the mayhem all over again. This issue is here to stay for awhile. Delta at least recognizes the gravity of the situation. This new risk factor just adds to stock valuation stress into the future. No word from Alaska or JetBlue because it probably means shutting most of their operation down. Consolidation looks like real possibility again IMO.
 
jagraham
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:54 am

It will be interesting to see if the European airlines can maintain any flights to US (except for BA and VS) considering the suspension. It takes effect at midnight, so we will see tomorrow . . .
 
LNCS0930
Posts: 232
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2020 9:17 pm

Re: Delta's Drastic Response to COVID-19

Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:11 am

TYWoolman wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:
Corpsnerd09 wrote:
"An overall capacity reduction in the next few months of 40 percent – the largest capacity reduction in Delta's history, including 2001.

Elimination of flying to continental Europe for the next 30 days, which could be extended. We will maintain service to London.

Parking up to 300 aircraft as our reduced capacity requires a substantially smaller fleet.

Deferring new aircraft deliveries to manage our reduced capacity and preserve cash.

Reducing capital expenditures by at least $2 billion for the year, including delaying aircraft mods, IT initiatives and other opportunities to preserve cash.
Ws
Immediately offering voluntary short-term, unpaid leaves as well as an immediate hiring freeze.
Substantially reducing the use of consultants and contractors."

Damn, you think LATAM will refund then the 2 Billion investment?

https://news.delta.com/ceo-ed-bastian-d ... d-business


It's clear now that preserving cash is the main theme of this crisis. Delta did a good job earning money but have very little to show for it as they either reinvested or distributed their earnings.

This proves that the industry has learned nothing from both 9/11 and the great financial crisis.

Share buybacks? What does it even accomplish?
Why not keep the cash on the balance sheet, that should have the same effect in terms of shareholder value. If shareholders were interested in cash rather than value, they wouldn't be parking their money in airlines anyway.

Ah all these corporate giants. At the end of the day, when the tide goes out, their overpaid managers are discovered swimming naked.

Seems like anybody can run an airline these days.
Even chipmunks do a better job of keeping food for leaner times.


I have to agree somewhat, but at same time airlines exist to fly passengers and right now there aren't any. I don't think an airline is expected to survive when they have virtually zero load factor, especially when this situation has no end in sight. All it takes is a few passengers manifesting covid-19 on flights a few months from now to start the mayhem all over again. This issue is here to stay for awhile. Delta at least recognizes the gravity of the situation. This new risk factor just adds to stock valuation stress into the future. No word from Alaska or JetBlue because it probably means shutting most of their operation down. Consolidation looks like real possibility again IMO.


We all know they are never letting SWA/AS/JBU to merge with one of the big 3. If they go under they go, I don't see anyone saving them. They'll save AA UAL or DL though. I also think you're underestimating human frustation. By September many people will be mentally over this. If someone gets the virus on their flight they won't bat an eye. Its been 2 days and people are going nuts already over sports ending, some of them ones who were proponents of stopping them just a week ago
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 747
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: Delta's Drastic Response to COVID-19

Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:20 am

LNCS0930 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:

It's clear now that preserving cash is the main theme of this crisis. Delta did a good job earning money but have very little to show for it as they either reinvested or distributed their earnings.

This proves that the industry has learned nothing from both 9/11 and the great financial crisis.

Share buybacks? What does it even accomplish?
Why not keep the cash on the balance sheet, that should have the same effect in terms of shareholder value. If shareholders were interested in cash rather than value, they wouldn't be parking their money in airlines anyway.

Ah all these corporate giants. At the end of the day, when the tide goes out, their overpaid managers are discovered swimming naked.

Seems like anybody can run an airline these days.
Even chipmunks do a better job of keeping food for leaner times.


I have to agree somewhat, but at same time airlines exist to fly passengers and right now there aren't any. I don't think an airline is expected to survive when they have virtually zero load factor, especially when this situation has no end in sight. All it takes is a few passengers manifesting covid-19 on flights a few months from now to start the mayhem all over again. This issue is here to stay for awhile. Delta at least recognizes the gravity of the situation. This new risk factor just adds to stock valuation stress into the future. No word from Alaska or JetBlue because it probably means shutting most of their operation down. Consolidation looks like real possibility again IMO.


We all know they are never letting SWA/AS/JBU to merge with one of the big 3. If they go under they go, I don't see anyone saving them. They'll save AA UAL or DL though. I also think you're underestimating human frustation. By September many people will be mentally over this. If someone gets the virus on their flight they won't bat an eye. Its been 2 days and people are going nuts already over sports ending, some of them ones who were proponents of stopping them just a week ago


I hope so. And by September hopefully everyone positive will be treated or will be in treatment. As far as mergers, I don't think current admin wants job loses, so anything is game.
 
zkncj
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:26 am

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120279430/coronavirus-prime-minister-updates-nz-on-covid19-outbreak

From Midnight Sunday New Zealand will require all International passengers to self isolate for 14 days, and will be in effect for the next 16 days. Would see an sharp drop off of flights to New Zealand in the next 48hours.
 
kaitak
Posts: 10128
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:40 am

It feels like airlines around the world are suffering a death by a thousand cuts; not just a hammer blow of being grounded and then, everyone knows where they stand, so to speak. In that situation, an airline knows that it has to suspend flights and staff have to be put on unpaid leave (hopefully getting some social welfare, or equivalent).

As things stand, here in Ireland (and I'm sure much the same elsewhere), airlines are hemorrhaging. Loads are down to a trickle; there are lots of no-shows. Some routes are actually doing ok still, but the majority are doing badly. I just wonder if it would be best for the airlines if they actually knew, definitively, what their position was. Part of the trouble is that they're still trying to maintain pretty much a full schedule and in doing so, they are bleeding cash.

I know, obviously, that they'd still need cash if they were grounded, to pay lease payments and the like, but at least they'd lose less. There are going to be airlines flying now that won't see the end of March and it's up to each airline to determine how to ensure it's not going to be one of them. Self-grounding may well be their only option, maybe preceded by a sweeping reduction in flights.
 
BCal Dc10
Posts: 746
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2001 9:47 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:52 am

kaitak wrote:
It feels like airlines around the world are suffering a death by a thousand cuts; not just a hammer blow of being grounded and then, everyone knows where they stand, so to speak. In that situation, an airline knows that it has to suspend flights and staff have to be put on unpaid leave (hopefully getting some social welfare, or equivalent).

As things stand, here in Ireland (and I'm sure much the same elsewhere), airlines are hemorrhaging. Loads are down to a trickle; there are lots of no-shows. Some routes are actually doing ok still, but the majority are doing badly. I just wonder if it would be best for the airlines if they actually knew, definitively, what their position was. Part of the trouble is that they're still trying to maintain pretty much a full schedule and in doing so, they are bleeding cash.

I know, obviously, that they'd still need cash if they were grounded, to pay lease payments and the like, but at least they'd lose less. There are going to be airlines flying now that won't see the end of March and it's up to each airline to determine how to ensure it's not going to be one of them. Self-grounding may well be their only option, maybe preceded by a sweeping reduction in flights.


I totally hear everything you say, and Ive heard stories of planes flying with 20 pax on board etc. But I flew MIA to PHL yesterday on a 767 and the plane was rammed. Never seen so many people at the boarding gate waiting to board, F was full (of course because all upgrades cleared), the wait list was long and not everyone was clearing when I boarded.

So I can’t work out the route demographics. Why does a flight the day before from Houston to Miami have 20 on board, then the next day a 767 from Miami to Philly is full to the point of bursting. What’s the rationale?

I’m asking for everyone’s PoV, just curious, that’s all!

Safe healthy flying everyone.
 
dampfnudel
Posts: 612
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:42 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:17 am

BCal Dc10 wrote:
kaitak wrote:
It feels like airlines around the world are suffering a death by a thousand cuts; not just a hammer blow of being grounded and then, everyone knows where they stand, so to speak. In that situation, an airline knows that it has to suspend flights and staff have to be put on unpaid leave (hopefully getting some social welfare, or equivalent).

As things stand, here in Ireland (and I'm sure much the same elsewhere), airlines are hemorrhaging. Loads are down to a trickle; there are lots of no-shows. Some routes are actually doing ok still, but the majority are doing badly. I just wonder if it would be best for the airlines if they actually knew, definitively, what their position was. Part of the trouble is that they're still trying to maintain pretty much a full schedule and in doing so, they are bleeding cash.

I know, obviously, that they'd still need cash if they were grounded, to pay lease payments and the like, but at least they'd lose less. There are going to be airlines flying now that won't see the end of March and it's up to each airline to determine how to ensure it's not going to be one of them. Self-grounding may well be their only option, maybe preceded by a sweeping reduction in flights.


I totally hear everything you say, and Ive heard stories of planes flying with 20 pax on board etc. But I flew MIA to PHL yesterday on a 767 and the plane was rammed. Never seen so many people at the boarding gate waiting to board, F was full (of course because all upgrades cleared), the wait list was long and not everyone was clearing when I boarded.

So I can’t work out the route demographics. Why does a flight the day before from Houston to Miami have 20 on board, then the next day a 767 from Miami to Philly is full to the point of bursting. What’s the rationale?

I’m asking for everyone’s PoV, just curious, that’s all!

Safe healthy flying everyone.

Were a lot of the passengers college-aged? The local government in Miami Beach said spring break was canceled so maybe it didn’t make sense to stay?
 
KirkSeattle
Posts: 346
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:32 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:27 am

DDR wrote:
Wonder what will happen to Delta's SEA hub. How much will they cut, or will they operate these flights at a loss to compete with AS.


Simply go back 5 years and see how DL has survived at SEA. Along with AS. I love them both. But this discussion is dead. They both have a place at SEA. Get over it.
 
BCal Dc10
Posts: 746
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2001 9:47 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:35 am

dampfnudel wrote:
BCal Dc10 wrote:
kaitak wrote:
It feels like airlines around the world are suffering a death by a thousand cuts; not just a hammer blow of being grounded and then, everyone knows where they stand, so to speak. In that situation, an airline knows that it has to suspend flights and staff have to be put on unpaid leave (hopefully getting some social welfare, or equivalent).

As things stand, here in Ireland (and I'm sure much the same elsewhere), airlines are hemorrhaging. Loads are down to a trickle; there are lots of no-shows. Some routes are actually doing ok still, but the majority are doing badly. I just wonder if it would be best for the airlines if they actually knew, definitively, what their position was. Part of the trouble is that they're still trying to maintain pretty much a full schedule and in doing so, they are bleeding cash.

I know, obviously, that they'd still need cash if they were grounded, to pay lease payments and the like, but at least they'd lose less. There are going to be airlines flying now that won't see the end of March and it's up to each airline to determine how to ensure it's not going to be one of them. Self-grounding may well be their only option, maybe preceded by a sweeping reduction in flights.


I totally hear everything you say, and Ive heard stories of planes flying with 20 pax on board etc. But I flew MIA to PHL yesterday on a 767 and the plane was rammed. Never seen so many people at the boarding gate waiting to board, F was full (of course because all upgrades cleared), the wait list was long and not everyone was clearing when I boarded.

So I can’t work out the route demographics. Why does a flight the day before from Houston to Miami have 20 on board, then the next day a 767 from Miami to Philly is full to the point of bursting. What’s the rationale?

I’m asking for everyone’s PoV, just curious, that’s all!

Safe healthy flying everyone.

Were a lot of the passengers college-aged? The local government in Miami Beach said spring break was canceled so maybe it didn’t make sense to stay?


Yeah I hear what you say, and also know the mayor of Miami Beach - the city where I live - also said, just like you mentioned, that - “hey guys, spring break is over - its done. Thanks for coming, but now leave”
Which was weird. The day before, the local rags were carrying news articles saying - virus - what virus - Miami Beaches packed full of spring breakers who ignoring warnings. And it was true. I live right on the beach and it was busy Tuesday, Wednesday.

Back OT - so its hard to say if the plane was packed full of exiting spring breakers college kids. I’m almost 50, so I can’t tell a college kid from my - but you get my drift. I’ve seen party planes, with lots of college kids. And this wasn’t really it. Probably a few. But it was a real mix demographic
 
dmstorm22
Posts: 661
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:43 am

zkncj wrote:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120279430/coronavirus-prime-minister-updates-nz-on-covid19-outbreak

From Midnight Sunday New Zealand will require all International passengers to self isolate for 14 days, and will be in effect for the next 16 days. Would see an sharp drop off of flights to New Zealand in the next 48hours.


They seem to be getting out ahead of it - interested to see how effective this is and how long it will last.

From my biased perspective, I moved a trip in late May from Korea to New Zealand due to the coronavirus, but now that Korea seems to be somewhat under control kinda feel I should switch back?

Then again, the rate this is going it may not matter if both (and many more) restrict US visitors.

Crazy times all around.
 
Lootess
Posts: 748
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:11 am

LNCS0930 wrote:
I wouldn’t be shocked to see all US carriers forbidden to go to JNB EZE SCL SYD AKL etc from 5/1-9/1. Particularly if we see this massively begin to improve in April they may put it in as a precautionary measure to lock the southern hemi out through summer


Doubtful. It's summer in Australia and the COVID-19 pandemic is just as bad.
 
Lootess
Posts: 748
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:14 am

jagraham wrote:
It will be interesting to see if the European airlines can maintain any flights to US (except for BA and VS) considering the suspension. It takes effect at midnight, so we will see tomorrow . . .


AF said they are, to CDC-approved airports. MIA, BOS, and IAH need approval.
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 1942
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:35 am

Just took a quick glance at some short haul United flights. Is United subbing CRJ for some mainline from Chicago on Saturday?
 
TEALflyer
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:20 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:35 am

dmstorm22 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120279430/coronavirus-prime-minister-updates-nz-on-covid19-outbreak

From Midnight Sunday New Zealand will require all International passengers to self isolate for 14 days, and will be in effect for the next 16 days. Would see an sharp drop off of flights to New Zealand in the next 48hours.


They seem to be getting out ahead of it - interested to see how effective this is and how long it will last.

From my biased perspective, I moved a trip in late May from Korea to New Zealand due to the coronavirus, but now that Korea seems to be somewhat under control kinda feel I should switch back?

Then again, the rate this is going it may not matter if both (and many more) restrict US visitors.

Crazy times all around.


This should make my life rather interesting... ;)
The company I work for has suspended all global operations for a month (maybe longer), and is in the process of repatriating everyone ‘home’.
In my case, I’ve been working in Canada for about the last 8 weeks, and my home base is in New Zealand.
Guess I’d better talk to our people tomorrow about options (maybe stay put in Canada until we restart operations here ?).
 
zkncj
Posts: 4411
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:37 am

Lootess wrote:
LNCS0930 wrote:
I wouldn’t be shocked to see all US carriers forbidden to go to JNB EZE SCL SYD AKL etc from 5/1-9/1. Particularly if we see this massively begin to improve in April they may put it in as a precautionary measure to lock the southern hemi out through summer


Doubtful. It's summer in Australia and the COVID-19 pandemic is just as bad.


New Zealand only has 6 cases, and pretty much has blocked non citizen's / residents for the next 16 days, ironically the latest case in New Zealand caught the virus in the US (had just returned to New Zealand).
 
rrbarna
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:51 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:58 am

I don't see this discussed anywhere, but what happens to outgoing mail from mainland Europe to the USA? All of it gets carried on civilian airliners which as of today no longer fly to the USA.
 
factsonly
Posts: 3219
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:41 am

rrbarna wrote:
I don't see this discussed anywhere, but what happens to outgoing mail from mainland Europe to the USA? All of it gets carried on civilian airliners which as of today no longer fly to the USA.


You are assuming EU airlines stop flying to the USA, this is not correct.

A number of European airlines are maintaining regular operations to CDC approved US airports, as many US citizens are flying home.
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