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FLALEFTY
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:40 am

This is a link to Delta's response to the current crisis. However, it was dated March 10, which was before Trump announced bans on EU, and then eventually, UK/Ireland flights. This evening, according to the Blancolirio channel on YouTube, there is an internal memo sent to employees that outlines Delta planning to park up to 300 planes.

The Delta March 10 press release:
https://news.delta.com/delta-actions-ad ... t-covid-19

Blancolirio's latest:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q1D4fWGiw0
 
mham001
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:51 am

ual763 wrote:
mham001 wrote:
madpropsyo wrote:

And what happens when they all go out of business?


New companies will rise up to meet demand?


Because a startup company can replace hundreds of jet airliners and tens of thousands of employees... Let’s be honest here. There are companies that are just too important/vital to let fail. BA is one of them.


When "they all" go out of business, then another form rises from the ashes, one way or another, whether that be through bankruptcy court/bailout GM style (can't speak about UK laws) or new companies form as demand rises again. Shareholders will be out, but this going to hurt many of us, I will lose hundreds of thousand$ myself just from the lost sale of a house this month. Say thank you China.
 
incitatus
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:08 am

gatibosgru wrote:
Anyone want to take a guess on the chances of me being able to get home from CDG thru LHR to MIA on the 23rd? Right now AA has me on CDG-MIA but I know that won’t happen, so hoping I’ll be able to do CDG-LHR-MIA.


The problem is that at the pace that the virus is spreading and countries reacting, March 23 is a very long time from now. You could be faced with a situation in which you are in lockdown at your current location and there is really no feasible air route for you to cross the Pond. If you must come to the US, I suggest head to the airport now.

I just checked every single of today's 40 departures from Europe to Brazil. None was canceled! Not even Alitalia. I am shocked.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
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centrair
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:11 am

"All Nippon Airways Co. and Japan Airlines Co. said Friday they will cancel more domestic flights as travel demand is drying up in the wake of the global coronavirus outbreak.

ANA will also cancel some international flights bound for Europe and North America from late March after suspending some Asian services following the outbreak of the virus in China.

Flights connecting Haneda Airport in Tokyo and New York, and those between Narita Airport and Los Angeles will be suspended, while flights between Haneda and Paris would be reduced, ANA said.

An additional 1,360 ANA flights on 42 routes will be cut this month, raising the total number of canceled flights to 2,224.

JAL will cut another 1,468 domestic flights on 60 routes by March 28, bringing its total cancellations due to the virus to over 3,000."

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/ ... m1_t5P7TGI

From my desk in Ebisu, (on a clear day) I can see departures and arrivals at Haneda. I noticed that it was much slower in the morning and evening banks which are usually very busy. Usually it is a play landing or taking off every minute or so. Now it feels like every 5~10.
My name is Centrair but HND is closer. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:22 am

incitatus wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
Anyone want to take a guess on the chances of me being able to get home from CDG thru LHR to MIA on the 23rd? Right now AA has me on CDG-MIA but I know that won’t happen, so hoping I’ll be able to do CDG-LHR-MIA.


The problem is that at the pace that the virus is spreading and countries reacting, March 23 is a very long time from now. You could be faced with a situation in which you are in lockdown at your current location and there is really no feasible air route for you to cross the Pond. If you must come to the US, I suggest head to the airport now.

I just checked every single of today's 40 departures from Europe to Brazil. None was canceled! Not even Alitalia. I am shocked.


I live in Miami now. But even then I’m worried, as you said, that I’d have to be quarantined either in Paris or London. But I can’t just head to the airport now cause my employer is downplaying the threat unfortunately. I also can’t believe everything to Brazil is just flying as usual. My whole family there is freaking out just cause churches and school are closed but flights aren’t.
@DadCelo
 
KingB123
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Re: UK aviation needs £7.5 billion lifeline

Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:27 am

Goodbye wrote:
KingB123 wrote:
No chance, I as a UK Tax payer refuse to pay for these failing airlines, if they crash they crash. That is business.


And the thousands of people employed by those airlines...?


These airlines are responsible just like any other employer to look after its employees, but you seen the contracts some BA staff have? No wonder they're always striking!
King B
 
KingB123
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Re: UK aviation needs £7.5 billion lifeline

Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:29 am

speedbird52 wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
Good luck with that.

Have fun when the entirety of the UK has just one airline serving it.


LOL, definitely there wont be one airline serving the UK so lets be real here. But why the hell should tax payers prop up for private companies?
King B
 
tphuang
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Re: UK aviation needs £7.5 billion lifeline

Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:30 am

The choice is not between bailing out vs uk airlines going under.

Ba has much better finances and won't go under. Ryanair and easyJet have strong balance sheet. They will be fine.

If vs doesn't have enough cash flow and go under, then time to allow easyJet into lhr.
 
KingB123
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Re: UK aviation needs £7.5 billion lifeline

Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:45 am

eidvm wrote:
KingB123 wrote:
No chance, I as a UK Tax payer refuse to pay for these failing airlines, if they crash they crash. That is business.


And if all airlines crash? If there are none left? How many other businesses will collapse? Entire tourist industries, many other businesses that rely on connections off the island you live on?

Airlines are not only businesses on their own but enablers of many other businesses around the country, similar to the bank bailouts back in 2008/09, sometimes some businesses are too big to fail, write off the shareholders, the bondholders and the unsecured creditors, but the core activity of the businesses must be protected to support the wider economy, the investment is not just in the company itself but all the hotels, restaurants, cafes, activity centers, cultural centers etc that rely on visitors from abroad.


Thats business, the same can be said about all these other airlines that have collapsed! Why hasn't anyone came and stepped in for those airlines that fell under. Its like a rule for some and then another kind of rule for others. Treat them all the same.
King B
 
KingB123
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Re: UK aviation needs £7.5 billion lifeline

Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:47 am

JannEejit wrote:
Goodbye wrote:
KingB123 wrote:
No chance, I as a UK Tax payer refuse to pay for these failing airlines, if they crash they crash. That is business.


And the thousands of people employed by those airlines...?


Some people do forget that the UK taxpayer also funds the welfare system, which thousands of ordinary airline staff may find themselves having to rely on.

If the banking industry can be bailed out with what are effectively loans, then so can the airline industry, as long as the money comes back to the taxpayer. Ordinarily I'd agree with the notion of letting ailing businesses fail, but these are extraordinary circumstances.

Unfortunately it's not only airlines that are going to need financial support in the coming weeks though. And yes I do find it slightly obscene the complete silence coming from a certain billionaire associated with the Virgin branding.


We'd be fools to think that the money we lend to these airlines would come back to the tax payer, what has RBS given back to the tax payers? Those managed to line their pockets got away and here we are today!
King B
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:49 am

If this virus continues it will put some carriers out of business. Others will no doubt be firing a large majority of their workforce. And I would say all carriers would be placing a substantial proportion of their staff on unpaid leave.

But eventually the virus will pass, and demand will rise, probably quite quickly. So it may not be a case of who cut back the most in order to survive, it may be a case of who can restart to their prior capacity the most quickly.

You can't just shutdown an airline overnight and restart it 6 months later. Pilots and cabin crew need to be trained and re-qualified. Aircraft maintenance must be completed on schedule. Passengers need to be given prior notice. It'll take months.

I would assume the more cash rich airlines to place their staff on leave who can be recalled quickly so they'll have a better advantage over those who have to furlough staff.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:52 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
If this virus continues it will put some carriers out of business. Others will no doubt be firing a large majority of their workforce. And I would say all carriers would be placing a substantial proportion of their staff on unpaid leave.

But eventually the virus will pass, and demand will rise, probably quite quickly. So it may not be a case of who cut back the most in order to survive, it may be a case of who can restart to their prior capacity the most quickly.

You can't just shutdown an airline overnight and restart it 6 months later. Pilots and cabin crew need to be trained and re-qualified. Aircraft maintenance must be completed on schedule. Passengers need to be given prior notice. It'll take months.

I would assume the more cash rich airlines to place their staff on leave who can be recalled quickly so they'll have a better advantage over those who have to furlough staff.

They can take a couple red quarters. They’ve been doing a ton of profit sharing and stock buy backs for a decade!
 
KingB123
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Re: UK aviation needs £7.5 billion lifeline

Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:59 am

spinotter wrote:
KingB123 wrote:
No chance, I as a UK Tax payer refuse to pay for these failing airlines, if they crash they crash. That is business.


Even BA?



You mean the airline thats got those millions and millions in reserves? Oh yes.
King B
 
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EK413
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:09 am

anstar wrote:
Clackers wrote:
SOUTH EAST ASIAN airlines in real trouble? MH, TG, and maybe PH.

I think SQ, VN and Garuda will survive this. In fact, Indonesian aviation seems relatively unhit from COVID19

I think alot of asian lcc's could be added to thatl ist like bamboo, tiger taiwan, starlux, tiger australia etc etc


I’ve recently returned from a trip to Indonesia & astound by the amount of grounded aircraft at CGK & to smaller extent DPS.

Here’s an image of narrow & wide-bodies at CGK just happened to stumble across on IG.

Image


Image

Here are images taken from from my iPhone and I’m well aware aircraft are also scheduled for maintenance & there are B737Max amongst the grounded aircraft.

Image


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
KingB123
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Re: UK aviation needs £7.5 billion lifeline

Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:10 am

Goodbye wrote:
KingB123 wrote:
No chance, I as a UK Tax payer refuse to pay for these failing airlines, if they crash they crash. That is business.


And the thousands of people employed by those airlines...?


Those hefty airline reserves should look after them fine right? Also employee rights and all that? No one wants to see job losses, but it is the employers responsibility to help its employees. Can we ask about those employees where their employer went bust? Why did the governments not come out then?
King B
 
KingB123
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:12 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
That BA is too big too fail doesn't mean full protection for shareholders, bondholders and unsecured creditors. They can - and should be made to - eat it. Assist workers, not shareholders.


This! Im getting a lot of heat on the UK airlines asking for £7 billion pound thread because i highlighted the exact thing but clearly others dont consider this!
King B
 
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ER757
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:35 am

Traveled SEA/PHX and return this week with AS, loads were as follows
SEA/PHX March 11- aircraft 737-900ER, 162 seats, 116 on board
PHX/SEA March 14 - aircraft 737-900ER, 162 seats, 157 on board
A good number of folks were wearing masks and almost all of us had either sanitizing wipes, gel, or wore gloves
I was surprised how full the flights were - a friend flew same route on AA on March 9th and said the plane was less than half full.
 
santi319
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 2:39 am

Airlines for business travelers are seeing poor loads, everybody else is seeing sort of half to full loads.

It is expected. People have family, Long distance relationships, etc.

This may come as a shock to a lot of people but after this is over, life will go on. Airlines will continue to grow and people will be more grateful for the little things, specially millenials.
 
Ziyulu
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:06 am

Are they still doing full meal services on international flights? Do you still get snacks on domestic flights?
 
MAH4546
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:10 am

Through May 5th, AA is ending all long hail flying except once a day to London each from Miami and Dallas, and three times a week from Dallas to Narita.
a.
 
1989worstyear
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:15 am

santi319 wrote:
Airlines for business travelers are seeing poor loads, everybody else is seeing sort of half to full loads.

It is expected. People have family, Long distance relationships, etc.

This may come as a shock to a lot of people but after this is over, life will go on. Airlines will continue to grow and people will be more grateful for the little things, specially millenials.


My late boomer parents (born late '50s) haven't seen anything this bad either. This might be a novel situation for the industry and globalised economy.
Stuck at age 15 thanks to the certification date of the A320-200 and my parents' decision to postpone having a kid by 3 years. At least there's Dignitas...
 
santi319
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:27 am

1989worstyear wrote:
santi319 wrote:
Airlines for business travelers are seeing poor loads, everybody else is seeing sort of half to full loads.

It is expected. People have family, Long distance relationships, etc.

This may come as a shock to a lot of people but after this is over, life will go on. Airlines will continue to grow and people will be more grateful for the little things, specially millenials.


My late boomer parents (born late '50s) haven't seen anything this bad either. This might be a novel situation for the industry and globalised economy.


Everything is a novel situation, WW2, 9/11, SARS, H1N1, 2008 high gas prices. Life went on after and it will after this. If anything we are buying a couple of more years for the future since we will not be polluting as much - go figure.
 
Reddevil556
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:33 am

Ironic how terrorists tried to bring down the western economy nearly 19 years ago and failed, yet one little virus has done twice the damage in only two weeks. Is this the new norm? Are we going to crash the economy and the industry every disease outbreak? Scary times
Jumped out of: C130H, C130J, C17A, C212, CH47, and UH60. Bucket list: C160, A400, C2
 
Ishrion
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:35 am

American Airlines is grounding 135 WIDEBODY aircraft... if you count the 763s, there are 139 widebody aircraft in AA’s fleet, meaning only 4 widebody aircraft will be in service to fly the only three long-haul routes that will be served.
 
seat1a
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:36 am

anyone have a pulse on how hawaiian is managing their business? thanks.
 
B747forever
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:37 am

Ishrion wrote:
American Airlines is grounding 135 WIDEBODY aircraft... if you count the 763s, there are 139 widebody aircraft in AA’s fleet, meaning only 4 widebody aircraft will be in service to fly the only three long-haul routes that will be served.


So no more domestic widebodies?
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
ltbewr
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 3:52 am

Some here or using other's comments, have speculated that governments will do some kind of bailout of airlines to keep them around. For sure many politicians will make sure some help is granted or arranged (like special loans) as want to keep as many jobs from their district as possible and get re-elected. Still there are limits. Some airlines may be forced to merge or consolidate operations upon recovery as a condition of any aid.

We have no idea how long this crises will continue, it could spread to Africa and other areas of the world after recovery elsewhere, mutations of it could come, so further extending affects on certain airlines
 
gdavis003
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:14 am

Just flew EWR-ORD-BHM. EWR-ORD was on a 752 (not sure if that’s typical for that route) but was probably about 40% full from what I could tell. Lots taking extra precautions. ORD-BHM was on an ERJ145 with only 17 people according to FA. Airports weren’t empty but weren’t crowded. Felt a little strange
 
guillelds
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:51 am

Effective today.Avianca start a reduction around 40% of their operation due to Coronavirus. More bad news for AV ...
 
tayser
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:03 am

Australian PM Scott Morrison just announced the same kind of arrival restrictions as NZ PM Jacinda Ardern did yesterday: all arrivals need to self-isolate for 14 days, effectively "soft" closing the [air] border. Cruise ships banned for a month as well. https://www.theage.com.au/national/pm-i ... 54a8q.html
 
speedbird52
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Re: UK aviation needs £7.5 billion lifeline

Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:27 am

KingB123 wrote:
speedbird52 wrote:
OzarkD9S wrote:
Good luck with that.

Have fun when the entirety of the UK has just one airline serving it.


LOL, definitely there wont be one airline serving the UK so lets be real here. But why the hell should tax payers prop up for private companies?

Because in this specific circumstance, there is more to gain by propping them up than there is to loose. Airlines are in danger precisely because of policy's enacted by governments. It makes sense. Allowing BA to be the sole long haul airline out of the UK would likely result in customers having to pay higher prices for worse service. If BA and VS both go, the country is left without a long haul airline. That means cargo will have less opportunities to reach the UK, less businessmen and women being able to travel internationally, Heathrow and Gatwick loosing a good chunk of their traffic, and thousands of jobs erased overnight.
 
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:48 am

REMINDER

Please keep the politics and things not related to aviation out of the discussion, please use the thread in Non-Aviation instead.

Secondly there are way too many users not adhering to the general posting and copyright rules when it comes to posting newsworthy articles. The following must be followed

Add a link to the new source for easy reference for others to refer to additional information
Add your own comments, something that actually represents some form of discussion after all this is a discussion forum not a news reporting service
Quotes are optional however only fair use portion of the article (nothing over 40%)

Failure to comply with the above will result in your post being deleted. Also note that violating copyright rules could potentially put the site at legal risk, these rules are here not only here to protect you guys but the site itself so please follow them.
Forum Moderator
 
airmad
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:56 am

Madagascar self isolating.

https://www.facebook.com/igersmadagasca ... =3&theater

In English: President Andry Rajoelina announced strong measures this Saturday March 14 to prevent the Coronavirus pandemic (COVID-19). Air links with Europe, notably Italy, France, Spain and Germany, are suspended for 30 days. Air links with Mayotte and Reunion are also suspended. Cruise ships can no longer dock on the Malagasy coast during the same period
 
wv399
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:05 am

32andBelow wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
We need to save the airline industry. It is cheap to print money the world around, so that is not a problem. We (governments) should expect to sell that money the airlines need for stock. It should, if properly priced, result in a win-win situation. They get money, government gets some profit selling the stock in a few years. I think this is a 'market' solution.

The airlines in the USA have been making record profits for years now. They really are already insolvent?



No, they aren’t insolvent today, but being in a negative cash flow position from travel bans and drastically reduced demand, means their current reserves will dry up quickly. For years they have been putting a good chunk of those profits back into the business: witness the massive rebuilding of La Guardia, new or renovated terminals at ATL, LAX, CLT, EWR, SLC, and JFK, ordering new aircraft and engines, restyling existing planes, upgrading IT, etc. It’s a capital intensive business, and the failure of one could trigger a domino effect in supporting industries. Some of which aren’t the first to spring to mind. How much money does Delta spend on Coke products? How about Georgia-Pacific office paper, cups, napkins, and building products? Starbucks coffee? Apple phones? HP computers? FedEx shipping? SunTrust financial services? Deloitte consulting? Not to mention the loss of the spending power of 80,000 employees plus their contractors.

Not even David Neeleman could create a startup that could instantly swoop in and take the place of a major carrier.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:20 am

wv399 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
We need to save the airline industry. It is cheap to print money the world around, so that is not a problem. We (governments) should expect to sell that money the airlines need for stock. It should, if properly priced, result in a win-win situation. They get money, government gets some profit selling the stock in a few years. I think this is a 'market' solution.

The airlines in the USA have been making record profits for years now. They really are already insolvent?



No, they aren’t insolvent today, but being in a negative cash flow position from travel bans and drastically reduced demand, means their current reserves will dry up quickly. For years they have been putting a good chunk of those profits back into the business: witness the massive rebuilding of La Guardia, new or renovated terminals at ATL, LAX, CLT, EWR, SLC, and JFK, ordering new aircraft and engines, restyling existing planes, upgrading IT, etc. It’s a capital intensive business, and the failure of one could trigger a domino effect in supporting industries. Some of which aren’t the first to spring to mind. How much money does Delta spend on Coke products? How about Georgia-Pacific office paper, cups, napkins, and building products? Starbucks coffee? Apple phones? HP computers? FedEx shipping? SunTrust financial services? Deloitte consulting? Not to mention the loss of the spending power of 80,000 employees plus their contractors.

Not even David Neeleman could create a startup that could instantly swoop in and take the place of a major carrier.

So they are going to have to put their big boy pants on. Many go into a bit of debt and get through it. Maybe it’s time for US companies to raise money as opposed to more and more stock by backs.
 
Ellofiend
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:23 am

Well, I am sure any self-respecting LCC will be taking full advantage of the situation... *sigh* R.I.P Flag Carriers. TG, MH, maybe GA, potentially OZ (those new shareholders are gonna be so happy with their new purchase), EY as well and while I don't know about EU or NA, I can't help but think about VS, DY. The airline industry is not kind to those who play risk, the margins...too small, the capital..too large.
 
AeroVega
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Re: UK aviation needs £7.5 billion lifeline

Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:28 am

Nickd92 wrote:
Oh and you'll happily see banks bailed out, which caused their own mess, yet won't happily see profitable airlines be propped up by government thanks to something which is NOTHING to do with their doing?


NOTHING, really? We would not be in this mess were it not for all those profitable airlines spreading the virus all over the globe. You should feel more sorry for all those affected industries that really had nothing to do with this outbreak.
 
ThePointblank
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:36 am

32andBelow wrote:
wv399 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
The airlines in the USA have been making record profits for years now. They really are already insolvent?



No, they aren’t insolvent today, but being in a negative cash flow position from travel bans and drastically reduced demand, means their current reserves will dry up quickly. For years they have been putting a good chunk of those profits back into the business: witness the massive rebuilding of La Guardia, new or renovated terminals at ATL, LAX, CLT, EWR, SLC, and JFK, ordering new aircraft and engines, restyling existing planes, upgrading IT, etc. It’s a capital intensive business, and the failure of one could trigger a domino effect in supporting industries. Some of which aren’t the first to spring to mind. How much money does Delta spend on Coke products? How about Georgia-Pacific office paper, cups, napkins, and building products? Starbucks coffee? Apple phones? HP computers? FedEx shipping? SunTrust financial services? Deloitte consulting? Not to mention the loss of the spending power of 80,000 employees plus their contractors.

Not even David Neeleman could create a startup that could instantly swoop in and take the place of a major carrier.

So they are going to have to put their big boy pants on. Many go into a bit of debt and get through it. Maybe it’s time for US companies to raise money as opposed to more and more stock by backs.

That's if lenders are willing to lend money in the current environment. A lot of investors and banks are spooked pretty badly right now.

If lenders aren't willing to lend money, or are only willing to do it with subprime rates, it will hasten the demise of airlines that don't have a strong fiscal cushion to fall back on.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:02 am

British Airways closes reservation for a majority of U.S. destinations:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... t-15mar20/

Only Atlanta, Boston, Dallas/Ft. Worth, Los Angeles, Miami, New York JFK, Newark, Seattle and Washington Dulles are still available.
 
Nickd92
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Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:01 pm

Re: UK aviation needs £7.5 billion lifeline

Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:04 am

AeroVega wrote:
Nickd92 wrote:
Oh and you'll happily see banks bailed out, which caused their own mess, yet won't happily see profitable airlines be propped up by government thanks to something which is NOTHING to do with their doing?


NOTHING, really? We would not be in this mess were it not for all those profitable airlines spreading the virus all over the globe. You should feel more sorry for all those affected industries that really had nothing to do with this outbreak.


You're failing to see the bigger picture.Airlines continued as governments refused around the world to shut their borders China way back in December. Don't blame the airlines, blame the Governments of the western world who have shown no real leadership until the last few days. They should of taken stock and acted real quick in December containing China and self isolating that.
 
MartijnNL
Posts: 999
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:44 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:07 am

Brickell305 wrote:
Agreed. For example, I’m sure UA highly regrets re-fitting their regional and LHR bound flights to be so premium heavy. The moment business demand dried up, that must have been a millstone around their necks.

GoSharks wrote:
I don’t see how that matters. It isn’t like people are flying for leisure and are filling economy cabins,

Indeed. All airlines are working from here. Spending money on improving cabin experiences is good. Just too bad the virus has caught up with all of this.
 
Nickd92
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:01 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:09 am

ThePointblank wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
wv399 wrote:


No, they aren’t insolvent today, but being in a negative cash flow position from travel bans and drastically reduced demand, means their current reserves will dry up quickly. For years they have been putting a good chunk of those profits back into the business: witness the massive rebuilding of La Guardia, new or renovated terminals at ATL, LAX, CLT, EWR, SLC, and JFK, ordering new aircraft and engines, restyling existing planes, upgrading IT, etc. It’s a capital intensive business, and the failure of one could trigger a domino effect in supporting industries. Some of which aren’t the first to spring to mind. How much money does Delta spend on Coke products? How about Georgia-Pacific office paper, cups, napkins, and building products? Starbucks coffee? Apple phones? HP computers? FedEx shipping? SunTrust financial services? Deloitte consulting? Not to mention the loss of the spending power of 80,000 employees plus their contractors.

Not even David Neeleman could create a startup that could instantly swoop in and take the place of a major carrier.

So they are going to have to put their big boy pants on. Many go into a bit of debt and get through it. Maybe it’s time for US companies to raise money as opposed to more and more stock by backs.

That's if lenders are willing to lend money in the current environment. A lot of investors and banks are spooked pretty badly right now.

If lenders aren't willing to lend money, or are only willing to do it with subprime rates, it will hasten the demise of airlines that don't have a strong fiscal cushion to fall back on.


Then what happens when they receive all them assets that they cannot shift unlike in Normal circumstances? It's in the best interests of the banks to keep theses businesses going. Otherwise they'll be no one with any Capital out there to start up once we are back to Normal.
 
MartijnNL
Posts: 999
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:44 am

Re: UK aviation needs £7.5 billion lifeline

Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:09 am

KingB123 wrote:
No chance, I as a UK Tax payer refuse to pay for these failing airlines, if they crash they crash. That is business.

Fitlikemin wrote:
WUM.

What does WUM stand for?
 
olle
Posts: 2378
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:11 am

South america still have summer period. I assume that this have kept the number of cases down. This will change end of march or april. USA start to have major outbrakes in states like washington state california and perhaps some other states. Will USA impose restriction in travelmbetween states like the case has been in china and schengen soon?
 
FlyingHonu001
Posts: 193
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:33 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:13 am

DL last remaining routes to AMS per Monday, everything else cancelled
DL72/74 ATL
DL132/134 DTW
 
MartijnNL
Posts: 999
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:44 am

Re: UK aviation needs £7.5 billion lifeline

Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:17 am

KingB123 wrote:
We'd be fools to think that the money we lend to these airlines would come back to the tax payer, what has RBS given back to the tax payers? Those managed to line their pockets got away and here we are today!

Banks in the Netherlands paid back their loans. Our government actually made money out of it.
 
mark787
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:08 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:31 am

so we keep talking about passenger operations, but does anyone have any information on cargo operations and if they are operating? Are LH Cargo, UPS, FedEx flights operating between the US and Europe? A friend who works in the cargo sector told me that cargo from China increased quite a bitt this week even though there is a travel ban still in place. Can airlines use just the belly freight of a passenger aircraft to make some kind of money?
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 19181
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: UK aviation needs £7.5 billion lifeline

Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:32 am

Arion640 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
KingB123 wrote:
No chance, I as a UK Tax payer refuse to pay for these failing airlines, if they crash they crash. That is business.


You refuse? :lol:

As a UK taxpayer, what say do you have on what your taxes are and aren't spent on? Probably the same as me - none.


Except a little bit of cash help now can stop thousands out of jobs in a few months time.

If virgin was a poorly run business i’d say fine, but these are extraordinary circumstances.


To be clear, I have no issue with the UK Government assisting private companies that are severely impacted by Covid-19 and the direct action of Governments (e.g. America closing its borders). Any business, not just airlines. If I ran a small, independent coffee shop and the UK Government ordered me to close (as has happened in other countries), I think it would be only right for the Government to help my business survive.

I am, however, deeply amused by KingB123's belief that he can decide what his taxes are used for. I wonder what his reaction will be if the company he works for fails as a result of Covid-19. I assume he would want them to turn down any Government assistance. :scratchchin:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 19181
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: UK aviation needs £7.5 billion lifeline

Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:34 am

MartijnNL wrote:
KingB123 wrote:
No chance, I as a UK Tax payer refuse to pay for these failing airlines, if they crash they crash. That is business.

Fitlikemin wrote:
WUM.

What does WUM stand for?


Wind Up Merchant.

I think it's pretty much a UK phrase (I've not heard it anywhere else). Largely replaced by "troll" these days.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
devron
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:56 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:06 am

LNCS0930 wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
I predict that US airlines will now be grounded by early next week....probably for 2-3 weeks.


The problem is where does it end? You will see cases for a sold year. You can’t go grounding them every time a pilot or a flight attendant tests positive


I was wondering this too. Where does it end. My game plan.

Summer will in the northern hemisphere will reduce the numbers and by the end of the year there will be a vaccine.

In the long term (next year) can imagine that to qualify for travel you need to have a vaccine. Similar to yellow fever and tou need to show this during e.g. checkin. Short term at airports will have temperature measurements before you get in. Thus an additional task for TSA and co.

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