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smokeybandit
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:11 am

blueflyer wrote:
Breaking: The CDC is recommending against gatherings of more than 50 people for the next eight weeks. Do 51 people waiting to board an aircraft count as an un-recommended gathering?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... atest-news


The recommendation doesn't apply to businesses, so one could easily argue that since airlines are a business, it doesn't count.
 
MAH4546
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Re: Scandinavian Airlines (SAS) suspends operations

Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:11 am

Scotron12 wrote:
Mikey711MN wrote:
Understanding that we have a general CV-related thread underway, this seemed noteworthy enough and relevant to discuss in its own thread...

Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisagarc ... -up-to-90/

- 10,000 temporary layoffs
- Cancellations starting Monday 16. March
- Limited service "focused on repatriation"

We shall see if others in the EU, e.g. KL, AF, IB, etc. follow suit assuming their future bookings are similarly bleak.

Good luck to all affected,

-Mike


QR shut for 14 days.


https://thepointsguy.com/news/qatar-sus ... ronavirus/


No, QR is absolutely not shutting down. They are not allowed, however, to take passengers to and from Doha. They will operate but all passengers must be transit.
a.
 
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PacoMartin
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:15 am

dcajet wrote:
Air New Zealand suspends 85% of its international flying until June. Suspending LAX-LHR, AKL-ORD, IAH, SFO, EZE, YVR, NRT, HNL, DPS, TPE.


Sounds like only 7 international destinations left
Adelaide, Brisbane, Gold Coast,Melbourne, Sydney, Hong Kong, Los Angeles

LAX to London–Heathrow was supposed to end 23 October 2020. If they can't sell tickets for the LAX-LHR section only, they may just stop flying now.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:31 am

PacoMartin wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Air New Zealand suspends 85% of its international flying until June. Suspending LAX-LHR, AKL-ORD, IAH, SFO, EZE, YVR, NRT, HNL, DPS, TPE.


Sounds like only 7 international destinations left
Adelaide, Brisbane, Gold Coast,Melbourne, Sydney, Hong Kong, Los Angeles

LAX to London–Heathrow was supposed to end 23 October 2020. If they can't sell tickets for the LAX-LHR section only, they may just stop flying now.


Basically all that's needed is 3 wide-bodies (for HKG - 1 and LAX - 2, rotating planes in and out of service), with the rest (trans-Tasman) operable with the A320 and A21N fleet. I can see LAX-LHR being ended early.
 
dcajet
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:34 am

Another South American country closes its borders and stops all international flights: Peru.

https://twitter.com/AlertaNews24/status ... 5477779456
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
dmstorm22
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:36 am

smokeybandit wrote:
blueflyer wrote:
Breaking: The CDC is recommending against gatherings of more than 50 people for the next eight weeks. Do 51 people waiting to board an aircraft count as an un-recommended gathering?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... atest-news


The recommendation doesn't apply to businesses, so one could easily argue that since airlines are a business, it doesn't count.


Agreed, it is very clear that this doesn't apply to business purposes and is more geared to social gatherings

That said, it is more clear we are headed into a lockdown similar to most of Europe now here in the US as well.
 
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qf789
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:44 am

United to announce 50% capacity cut for April and May, expecting LF to be 20-30%

https://twitter.com/krisvancleave/statu ... 30016?s=21
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qf789
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:51 am

PacoMartin wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Air New Zealand suspends 85% of its international flying until June. Suspending LAX-LHR, AKL-ORD, IAH, SFO, EZE, YVR, NRT, HNL, DPS, TPE.


Sounds like only 7 international destinations left
Adelaide, Brisbane, Gold Coast,Melbourne, Sydney, Hong Kong, Los Angeles

LAX to London–Heathrow was supposed to end 23 October 2020. If they can't sell tickets for the LAX-LHR section only, they may just stop flying now.


NZ hasn’t operated to HKG in over a month. They also will be flying to SIN and PER
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joeblow10
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:57 am

qf789 wrote:
United to announce 50% capacity cut for April and May, expecting LF to be 20-30%

https://twitter.com/krisvancleave/statu ... 30016?s=21


Wow... quite the note to read. Very transparent, no doubt
 
Wednesdayite
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:59 am

smokeybandit wrote:
blueflyer wrote:
Breaking: The CDC is recommending against gatherings of more than 50 people for the next eight weeks. Do 51 people waiting to board an aircraft count as an un-recommended gathering?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... atest-news


The recommendation doesn't apply to businesses, so one could easily argue that since airlines are a business, it doesn't count.


Yes. But many passengers may not be in a rush to sit with more than 50 others in an enclosed space while this CDC recommendation exists.
A318/19/20/21/30/40. B717/27/37/47/57/67/77/87. CRJ2/7. ERJ145/175/190. FKR50. IL62. MD11/82/83/88. TU154.
AA AC AF AI AR AS AT AV AZ BA BW BY CO DA DL F9 FR JJ KL LH MA NW NZ OS RG SU TK U2 UA US VS WN
 
tphuang
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:03 am

qf789 wrote:
United to announce 50% capacity cut for April and May, expecting LF to be 20-30%

https://twitter.com/krisvancleave/statu ... 30016?s=21


If other airlines are seeing same level of LF, how long can any airlines last with this type of LF even after severe cuts?
 
deltairlines
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:09 am

AirAfreak wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
FlyingHonu001 wrote:
DL last remaining routes to AMS per Monday, everything else cancelled
DL72/74 ATL
DL132/134 DTW

Are you certain (or have a source)? DL75, DL85 and DL135 (westbound) and DL72, DL82 and DL134 (eastbound) remain bookable on Delta metal throughout march. All other TATL routes to the EU are off the system already.



DL118 LAX CDG is still bookable for 3/26 on delta.com at 5:24pm PST Sun, March 15 on DELTA metal. (777-200 eqp)

Nothing personal to you or anyone else but I just wish people would do their homework before posting misinformation. I’ve been following this DELTA TATL flight for over a week now because I’m debating whether or not to take this convenient afternoon flight to Paris to see my family or to just stay home in Los Angeles.


Again, it's going to cancel. I will bet you my bank account it is not going to operate.

Delta announced all these cuts on Friday afternoon. On the international network, they canceled (but did not remove from the schedule) all applicable flights through March 24. It's not just flipping a switch to get all these flights updated, especially at the very end of the business week.

What will happen (most likely tomorrow) is these flights will get zero'd out tomorrow when everyone is back at work, to prevent these tickets being sold any more. Then, reservations will reach out to customers to rebook. Once everyone is rebooked off the affected flight, then network can go ahead and cancel it in the schedule (where it would inevitably be reflected in enilria's weekly OAG thread). The scope of an airline doing this at once is unprecedented - both in how much is having to get updated, and how quickly it is changing.

It's also false that all the other Delta EU flights are out of the system. I just tried doing a dummy booking for JFK-FRA on Delta.com on March 25 and the nonstop pops up. JFK-MAD on that same date? Oh look...it's the nonstop being sold!

In the case of your LAX-CDG flight, if you were to book it tonight, at some point (most likely this week) you will get an email saying your flight has been canceled. They'll probably rebook you onto the Air France-operated flight, given that it's a nonstop in the same O&D and is covered by the Joint Venture. You'd then get the choice of the following: a) accept the rebooking onto the Air France flight; b) if you wanted to stay on Delta metal, you could rebook over ATL (which is the only gateway maintaining CDG service; or c) cancel and get a refund.

Source for this: me (a former Delta corporate employee in Revenue Management that worked closely with network planning and reservations at a corporate level and have plenty of experience with the steps that are taken when a flight is canceled and removed from the schedule).
Last edited by deltairlines on Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Scandinavian Airlines (SAS) suspends operations

Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:10 am

The headline of this thread - Scandinavian Airlines (SAS) suspends operations - isn't entirely accurate.

With the travel restrictions now active in Scandinavia and many other countries at least the international market will practically have evaporated when in a few days repatriation flights have been completed. That leaves practically only domestic flights for the immediate future. That means mostly domestic flight in Sweden since Norwegian and Widerøe take care of much of Norway, and Danish domestic market is very small due to small country and efficient ground infrastructure.

Consequently SAS is looking forward to a roughly 90% reduction of activity.

Some 10,000 employees out of 11,000 will be offered temporary leave with partial pay which is paid partially by the government as sort of unemployment benefit.

In Denmark there are 4,200 SAS employees of whom only 200 are expected to remain active. Of about one hundred SAS routes out of CPH likely only the domestic route CPH - AAL will be served, and with reduced capacity.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
myki
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:11 am

tphuang wrote:
qf789 wrote:
United to announce 50% capacity cut for April and May, expecting LF to be 20-30%

https://twitter.com/krisvancleave/statu ... 30016?s=21


If other airlines are seeing same level of LF, how long can any airlines last with this type of LF even after severe cuts?

Depends how big the war chest is ... last one standing wins!
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:12 am

tphuang wrote:
qf789 wrote:
United to announce 50% capacity cut for April and May, expecting LF to be 20-30%

https://twitter.com/krisvancleave/statu ... 30016?s=21


If other airlines are seeing same level of LF, how long can any airlines last with this type of LF even after severe cuts?


The more they try to last, the less they will last.
 
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chepos
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:16 am

deltairlines wrote:
AirAfreak wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
Are you certain (or have a source)? DL75, DL85 and DL135 (westbound) and DL72, DL82 and DL134 (eastbound) remain bookable on Delta metal throughout march. All other TATL routes to the EU are off the system already.



DL118 LAX CDG is still bookable for 3/26 on delta.com at 5:24pm PST Sun, March 15 on DELTA metal. (777-200 eqp)

Nothing personal to you or anyone else but I just wish people would do their homework before posting misinformation. I’ve been following this DELTA TATL flight for over a week now because I’m debating whether or not to take this convenient afternoon flight to Paris to see my family or to just stay home in Los Angeles.


Again, it's going to cancel. I will bet you my bank account it is not going to operate.

Delta announced all these cuts on Friday afternoon. On the international network, they canceled (but did not remove from the schedule) all applicable flights through March 24. It's not just flipping a switch to get all these flights updated, especially at the very end of the business week.

What will happen (most likely tomorrow) is these flights will get zero'd out tomorrow when everyone is back at work, to prevent these tickets being sold any more. Then, reservations will reach out to customers to rebook. Once everyone is rebooked off the affected flight, then network can go ahead and cancel it in the schedule (where it would inevitably be reflected in enilria's weekly OAG thread). The scope of an airline doing this at once is unprecedented - both in how much is having to get updated, and how quickly it is changing.

It's also false that all the other Delta EU flights are out of the system. I just tried doing a dummy booking for JFK-FRA on Delta.com on March 25 and the nonstop pops up. JFK-MAD on that same date? Oh look...it's the nonstop being sold!

In the case of your LAX-CDG flight, if you were to book it tonight, at some point (most likely this week) you will get an email saying your flight has been canceled. They'll probably rebook you onto the Air France-operated flight, given that it's a nonstop in the same O&D and is covered by the Joint Venture. You'd then get the choice of the following: a) accept the rebooking onto the Air France flight; b) if you wanted to stay on Delta metal, you could rebook over ATL (which is the only gateway maintaining CDG service; or c) cancel and get a refund.

Source for this: me (a former Delta corporate employee in Revenue Management that worked closely with network planning and reservations at a corporate level and have plenty of experience with the steps that are taken when a flight is canceled and removed from the schedule).

Here is the most updated DL press release, detailing the European ops. LAX-CDG is not going to operate

https://news.delta.com/category/coronavirus-covid-19


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hmmmm...
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:32 am

I just checked Flightradar24 and the sky is pretty full of planes going transatlantic. I thought that flights to Europe were either banned or cancelled as of Friday.



Image
An optimist robs himself of the joy of being pleasantly surprised
 
Wednesdayite
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:41 am

hmmmm... wrote:
I just checked Flightradar24 and the sky is pretty full of planes going transatlantic. I thought that flights to Europe were either banned or cancelled as of Friday.



Image


Certain passengers are banned.

Not flights.

There’s also a significant repatriation situation going on.
A318/19/20/21/30/40. B717/27/37/47/57/67/77/87. CRJ2/7. ERJ145/175/190. FKR50. IL62. MD11/82/83/88. TU154.
AA AC AF AI AR AS AT AV AZ BA BW BY CO DA DL F9 FR JJ KL LH MA NW NZ OS RG SU TK U2 UA US VS WN
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:44 am

Over/under that US airlines are grounded by end of the week......
 
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knope2001
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:44 am

Here are the same 21 Delta LGA markets I've posted a few times before. Tomorrow (Monday 3/16) loads based on seat maps less than 24 hours before departure. As I've mentioned before seat maps, even close to departure, have some play to them. Plus there might well be no-shows but may also be a few passengers still without a seat selection. But they give a pretty good idea this close to departure.

Raw load factor (not weighted by distance):27.4%

35.5% ….. chs
35.1% ….. jax
34.6% ….. bhm
31.6% ….. gso
30.6% ….. rdu
29.7% ….. mem
25.7% ….. cle
25.2% ….. clt
24.1% ….. sdf
23.9% ….. cmh
23.8% ….. ric
22.7% ….. mke
22.6% ….. pit
22.5% ….. grr
21.9% ….. ind
21.4% ….. stl
21.2% ….. buf
19.6% ….. mci
19.1% ….. bna
18.7% ….. gsp
17.5% ….. msn

These loads are half of what they were a week ago.
 
United1
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:45 am

hmmmm... wrote:
I just checked Flightradar24 and the sky is pretty full of planes going transatlantic. I thought that flights to Europe were either banned or cancelled as of Friday.



Image


No EU, UK and US airlines are still operating transatlantic to get passengers home. As of Friday no one who is not a US citizen or legal resident can't enter the US if they have been in the EU during the past 14 days.

I don't know what tomorrow mornings announcement from UA is going to exactly entail regarding further transatlantic cuts but UA planned on operating a full schedule across the Atlantic until March 20th then calling back massively. Even then UA still planned on operating flights to a few cities on the continent.
Last edited by United1 on Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
SimonDanger
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:45 am

[threeid][/threeid]
qf789 wrote:
United to announce 50% capacity cut for April and May, expecting LF to be 20-30%

https://twitter.com/krisvancleave/statu ... 30016?s=21


This just stings. I love big, beautiful birds made of human ingenuity and engineering, and to watch this industry collapse is awful. My thoughts go out to all affected. May the blue skies be traced with white contrails again soon.
 
deltairlines
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:47 am

hmmmm... wrote:
I just checked Flightradar24 and the sky is pretty full of planes going transatlantic. I thought that flights to Europe were either banned or cancelled as of Friday.



Image


Flights aren't banned. Anyone aside from US citizens/Green Card/Permanent Resident/foreign crew that have been to the Schengen area in the past 14 days are not allowed to enter; flights are only permitted to 13 approved airports in the United States (BOS, JFK, IAD, ATL, DTW, ORD, MIA, EWR, DFW, SFO, LAX, HNL, SEA) are permitted.

Tonight is Delta and American's last night of running most of their EU schedule - after tonight it gets significantly reduced. United reduces quite a bit later this week. There's still select British Airways, Air France, KLM, Luftahnsa and a few others that will still fly as well.

That being said, after tonight going East and tomorrow going west, the TATL corridors will be a lot emptier than anytime since 9/11.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:48 am

Things are changing so rapidly they can't keep-up.

At this point, there is almost zero corporate travel unless its essential medical or infrastructure related travel.
Through the next week we are still seeing people returning from leisure travel, cruises, and other travel now that ski resorts, theme parks, and essentially everything has shut down.
The back log of such will likely be done by end of the week.

Frankly, the airlines should probably stand down by end of the week, and maybe as a sign of solidarity go for 2-3 weeks down and attempt to regroup for whatever is next.
 
Vctony
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:49 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Over/under that US airlines are grounded by end of the week......


I think that US airlines will be grounded by this time next week.

Honestly, I think that the airlines would be better off if the government mandated it as they would then have a better case for a government bailout. No sense to fly around empty aircraft.
 
United1
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:49 am

knope2001 wrote:
Here are the same 21 Delta LGA markets I've posted a few times before. Tomorrow (Monday 3/16) loads based on seat maps less than 24 hours before departure. As I've mentioned before seat maps, even close to departure, have some play to them. Plus there might well be no-shows but may also be a few passengers still without a seat selection. But they give a pretty good idea this close to departure.

Raw load factor (not weighted by distance):27.4%

35.5% ….. chs
35.1% ….. jax
34.6% ….. bhm
31.6% ….. gso
30.6% ….. rdu
29.7% ….. mem
25.7% ….. cle
25.2% ….. clt
24.1% ….. sdf
23.9% ….. cmh
23.8% ….. ric
22.7% ….. mke
22.6% ….. pit
22.5% ….. grr
21.9% ….. ind
21.4% ….. stl
21.2% ….. buf
19.6% ….. mci
19.1% ….. bna
18.7% ….. gsp
17.5% ….. msn

These loads are half of what they were a week ago.


Not surprising...Even with UAs 50% capacity cut they are still expecting load factors in the 20-30% range. I'm sure all of the airlines are in the same boat....hang in there guys. This is going to suck for all of us the next few months.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:52 am

Yep, feel for all the employees and everyone from customers, employees and other that was supposed to be an awesome and record breaking 2020 travel year.

This year is a dumpster fire for the industry. Who knows where this goes from here.

People will travel again.

The short term is very unclear.
 
Vctony
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:55 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Yep, feel for all the employees and everyone from customers, employees and other that was supposed to be an awesome and record breaking 2020 travel year.

This year is a dumpster fire for the industry. Who knows where this goes from here.

People will travel again.

The short term is very unclear.


People will travel again but if there is a deep recession that follows this, people and businesses are not going to be able to afford to travel at the levels that they were prior to this.

2025 - 2027 is when we'll start seeing loads surpass 2019, IMHO.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:01 am

Waterbomber2 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
qf789 wrote:
United to announce 50% capacity cut for April and May, expecting LF to be 20-30%

https://twitter.com/krisvancleave/statu ... 30016?s=21


If other airlines are seeing same level of LF, how long can any airlines last with this type of LF even after severe cuts?


The more they try to last, the less they will last.

What is that supposed to mean?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:08 am

Yes, industry is going to be in the dumpster for the next 3-5 years. We aren't getting back to 2019 levels anytime soon,

Economic recession and pandemic fears to weigh heavily for the next several years.

It was good while it lasted.
 
Vctony
Posts: 675
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:11 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Things are changing so rapidly they can't keep-up.

At this point, there is almost zero corporate travel unless its essential medical or infrastructure related travel.
Through the next week we are still seeing people returning from leisure travel, cruises, and other travel now that ski resorts, theme parks, and essentially everything has shut down.
The back log of such will likely be done by end of the week.

Frankly, the airlines should probably stand down by end of the week, and maybe as a sign of solidarity go for 2-3 weeks down and attempt to regroup for whatever is next.


I don't think they'll voluntarily do it without government action, although if one does it I can imagine others might follow.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:23 am

There is going to be an increasing amount of SJW pressure to do so.
In my town the SJW are pressuring any business to close down and people to stay home. Social media is getting brutal for anything not deemed essential.

Don't underestimate this, along with the economic realities of how much the airlines are going to bleed at 20% LF, and a potential for a government forced shutdown.
 
dampfnudel
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:29 am

hmmmm... wrote:
I just checked Flightradar24 and the sky is pretty full of planes going transatlantic. I thought that flights to Europe were either banned or cancelled as of Friday.



Image

Most Europeans and Americans would like to get home and the airlines are trying to make that happen. A week or two from now it should look a lot different.
A313 332 343 B703 712 722 732 73G 738 739 741 742 744 752 762 76E 764 772 AT5 CR9 D10 DHH DHT F27 GRM L10 M83 TU5
 
Scotron12
Posts: 496
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Re: Scandinavian Airlines (SAS) suspends operations

Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:33 am

MAH4546 wrote:
Scotron12 wrote:
Mikey711MN wrote:
Understanding that we have a general CV-related thread underway, this seemed noteworthy enough and relevant to discuss in its own thread...

Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisagarc ... -up-to-90/

- 10,000 temporary layoffs
- Cancellations starting Monday 16. March
- Limited service "focused on repatriation"

We shall see if others in the EU, e.g. KL, AF, IB, etc. follow suit assuming their future bookings are similarly bleak.

Good luck to all affected,

-Mike


QR shut for 14 days.


https://thepointsguy.com/news/qatar-sus ... ronavirus/


No, QR is absolutely not shutting down. They are not allowed, however, to take passengers to and from Doha. They will operate but all passengers must be transit.


My bad..understood earlier reports wrong. :duck:

However, this pandemic must be taking a toll on their schedules, as it has all airlines.
 
dampfnudel
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:43 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Yes, industry is going to be in the dumpster for the next 3-5 years. We aren't getting back to 2019 levels anytime soon,

Economic recession and pandemic fears to weigh heavily for the next several years.

It was good while it lasted.

Yeah, I definitely see a bigger impact on the industry than 9/11 and the 2008 recession combined. I’m still hoping for a quicker recovery than the worst-case scenario that’s running through my head at the moment.
A313 332 343 B703 712 722 732 73G 738 739 741 742 744 752 762 76E 764 772 AT5 CR9 D10 DHH DHT F27 GRM L10 M83 TU5
 
alasizon
Posts: 2608
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:00 am

bennett123 wrote:
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/03/13/pentagon-bans-domestic-travel-troops-families-coronavirus-spreads.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3p5-qapSX6EAfDnkpD7csNhFIieLMXehuqiTLzurKlyZlOrN5gSdJn75g#Echobox=1584161633

If it is not appropriate for DOD people to fly domestic, then presumably they conclude that it is appropriate for civilians as well.


The restriction for their families is only on government paid trips. Their spouses and families can continue to travel at will.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
Scotron12
Posts: 496
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:13 am

Seattle Times has a report that Boeing may have to cease production in Everett due to slowdown in air travel. Love the quote by Richard Aboulafia: Boeings "crack cocaine addiction to shareholder returns".

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... roduction/
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:33 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Yes, industry is going to be in the dumpster for the next 3-5 years. We aren't getting back to 2019 levels anytime soon,

Economic recession and pandemic fears to weigh heavily for the next several years.

It was good while it lasted.


I actually think the pandemic fears once this current situation clears up will be less than the post-9/11 terrorism fears. I think most people assume these extreme shut down measures are equivalent to hitting the pause button and once it’s over all will resume as normal. On one hand they are completely overlooking the consequences this will have on industries and the economy. On the other hand, it means people are also thinking once it’s over they can go and reschedule those events and trips that got canceled. So demand might come screaming back...if you know, everyone isn’t unemployed and bankrupt first.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
Thunderbolt500
Posts: 139
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:43 am

Silver1SWA wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Yes, industry is going to be in the dumpster for the next 3-5 years. We aren't getting back to 2019 levels anytime soon,

Economic recession and pandemic fears to weigh heavily for the next several years.

It was good while it lasted.


I actually think the pandemic fears once this current situation clears up will be less than the post-9/11 terrorism fears. I think most people assume these extreme shut down measures are equivalent to hitting the pause button and once it’s over all will resume as normal. On one hand they are completely overlooking the consequences this will have on industries and the economy. On the other hand, it means people are also thinking once it’s over they can go and reschedule those events and trips that got canceled. So demand might come screaming back...if you know, everyone isn’t unemployed and bankrupt first.

I wonder when that will be in the future.
 
BAINY3
Posts: 223
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:47 am

I am not one to hesitate to travel but even I am getting to the point of wondering whether I'll even go on my long-planned trip to LA and PHX three weeks from now. With so many bars and restaurants closing, and my flights having dropped to rock bottom prices, I wonder if they will even operate--and if they do, if I will even have much to do besides wander around outdoors and take pictures. Even going to the LAX In-N-Out to spot planes seems up in the air with so many long-haul suspension and maybe restaurants closing anyway. As for now my trip is still on but I probably won't make a final call until the week it is supposed to happen. So far, no schedule adjustments to my flights have happened on WN or AA.

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
There is going to be an increasing amount of SJW pressure to do so.
In my town the SJW are pressuring any business to close down and people to stay home. Social media is getting brutal for anything not deemed essential.

Don't underestimate this, along with the economic realities of how much the airlines are going to bleed at 20% LF, and a potential for a government forced shutdown.

"SJW" is not a catch-all term for anyone giving advice on social media. Pandemic response is not a "social justice" matter because it isn't anything to do with race or socioeconomic status or anything like that. Lots of healthcare experts who normally are silent on any normal socioeconomic political arguments of the day are still telling people to stay home with this. That is not just "SJWs" pressuring people.
 
questions
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:29 am

The ripple effect of the Coronavirus is huge and will linger for a long time. MGM Resorts and Wynn/Encore announced they are temporarily closing their Las Vegas properties. Passengers stop flying, airlines cut back schedules, employers tell their employees to WFH and conventions and vacation plans (to Las Vegas) are cancelled. Out of work: all the airline employees, airport employees, hotel/casino staff, area restaurants and all the businesses that support them that operate in the background.

Whether businesses hours are cut back or closed completely for 3 weeks, 4 week, 8 weeks, 12 weeks, the lingering effect on the economy will last for a long time. Some folks and sectors will bounce back while others will never recover.

I think we will see a change in players in the aviation sector. Some won’t survive. Some will merge. The effects on airlines’s revenue will stay around while consumers make up for lost income and business try to regain profitability (and therefore refrain from increased employee travel). 2020 and 2021 are shot for the airlines. We may see a recovery in 2022.
 
Elementalism
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:52 am

deltairlines wrote:
AirAfreak wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
Are you certain (or have a source)? DL75, DL85 and DL135 (westbound) and DL72, DL82 and DL134 (eastbound) remain bookable on Delta metal throughout march. All other TATL routes to the EU are off the system already.



DL118 LAX CDG is still bookable for 3/26 on delta.com at 5:24pm PST Sun, March 15 on DELTA metal. (777-200 eqp)

Nothing personal to you or anyone else but I just wish people would do their homework before posting misinformation. I’ve been following this DELTA TATL flight for over a week now because I’m debating whether or not to take this convenient afternoon flight to Paris to see my family or to just stay home in Los Angeles.


Again, it's going to cancel. I will bet you my bank account it is not going to operate.

Delta announced all these cuts on Friday afternoon. On the international network, they canceled (but did not remove from the schedule) all applicable flights through March 24. It's not just flipping a switch to get all these flights updated, especially at the very end of the business week.

What will happen (most likely tomorrow) is these flights will get zero'd out tomorrow when everyone is back at work, to prevent these tickets being sold any more. Then, reservations will reach out to customers to rebook. Once everyone is rebooked off the affected flight, then network can go ahead and cancel it in the schedule (where it would inevitably be reflected in enilria's weekly OAG thread). The scope of an airline doing this at once is unprecedented - both in how much is having to get updated, and how quickly it is changing.

It's also false that all the other Delta EU flights are out of the system. I just tried doing a dummy booking for JFK-FRA on Delta.com on March 25 and the nonstop pops up. JFK-MAD on that same date? Oh look...it's the nonstop being sold!

In the case of your LAX-CDG flight, if you were to book it tonight, at some point (most likely this week) you will get an email saying your flight has been canceled. They'll probably rebook you onto the Air France-operated flight, given that it's a nonstop in the same O&D and is covered by the Joint Venture. You'd then get the choice of the following: a) accept the rebooking onto the Air France flight; b) if you wanted to stay on Delta metal, you could rebook over ATL (which is the only gateway maintaining CDG service; or c) cancel and get a refund.

Source for this: me (a former Delta corporate employee in Revenue Management that worked closely with network planning and reservations at a corporate level and have plenty of experience with the steps that are taken when a flight is canceled and removed from the schedule).


Trip booked for April 18-25 to St. Croix. Think that will get cut as well? When Delta cuts are they refunding or giving credit? We are discussing if we even want to go in a month.
 
oschkosch
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:56 am

Scotron12 wrote:
Seattle Times has a report that Boeing may have to cease production in Everett due to slowdown in air travel. Love the quote by Richard Aboulafia: Boeings "crack cocaine addiction to shareholder returns".

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... roduction/



In the article it says that 6 people from Everett plant have confirmed case of Coronavirus. Probably just the beginning unfortunately, as incubation period is 7-14 days.

The outbreak of coronavirus within Boeing employee ranks — six confirmed cases at the Everett plant and one at the local headquarters in Longacres, with two possible cases from Auburn — may supply another reason for a full-scale temporary halt to production.
:stirthepot: :airplane: "This airplane is designed by clowns, who in turn are supervised by monkeys" :airplane: :stirthepot:
 
ryanov
Posts: 236
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:38 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:04 am

I've done a lot of reading about this in the last 72 hours (I also have symptoms, whee). It would be unwise to think that should be flying anywhere non-essential until probably at least the end of May (depending on how seriously we take this thing, which in the USA has so far been "not at all"). I think even if we did suddenly react in earnest -- I'm talking full-scale shutdowns of all non-emergency stuff -- that's probably how long it will be. A healthcare professional predicted to a staff member of my union that October is when things may be getting back to normal. I hope it's at least that soon.
 
Lilj4425
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:49 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:04 am

According to CNN, Air New Zealand is considering cutting jobs by as much as 30%. The airline added that it would be unlikely to fly the same capacity or number of customers in the next 12 months. The airline fears the virus will take a bigger toll on the airline industry then the financial crisis did a decade ago.
 
Derico
Posts: 4419
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:10 am

MDZ (Mendoza, Argentina), may completely cease operations, even to domestic flights, if a provincial request to stop all flights is approved by the national government. It is the 4th busiest airport in the country, and right now there are plenty of foreign tourists lingering around due to the Wine Harvest festival having only finished in the last few days or so. IT handled 2.4 million passengers last year.

https://radiomitre.cienradios.com/coron ... eropuerto/
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
mark787
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:08 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:26 am

although I asked the question several posts ago about how air cargo will operate, I was able to get the answer from my employer and from others who work at the airport that even if a domestic travel ban is imposed by the Trump administration, that cargo flights would continue to operate, therefore it would be unlikely that any airport in the US would be officially closed. Even during the travel ban between China and the US, goods were still flying on cargo planes albeit at a much reduced frequency. During this past week, we saw a very rapid increase of import freight from China and export goods are slowly starting to recover. The backlog of import freight from China should start to arrive very shortly, and even with some cities across the US imposing restrictions on "social activities", most employers have not been very forthcoming about employees taking time off of work. In fact, gathering by Mr. Trump's comments earlier today, certain industries in the US will NOT shut down, and I expect UPS, FED EX, Amazon, and the USPS to continue their business as will the rail and trucking industry as they are the lifeline of the US. Perhaps we may see smaller regional airports that do not have any cargo service shut down, but airports such as JFK, ORD, MIA, and LAX will or should remain open. I would say that while airlines are taking a full body blow at the moment, the Cargo sector, including Charter cargo specialist, will fair better during this crisis.
 
PANAMsterdam
Posts: 272
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:45 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:19 am

AirFrance-KLM has announced that they will cancel 70% up to 90% of their flights, parking their 747's and also A380's.

Also: Royal Jordanian will suspend operations until the end of this month, as of tomorrow.
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
FCAFLYBOY
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:03 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:30 am

IAG expects to cut capacity by as much as 75% until May, Willie Walsh to stay on rather than retire during the crisis..

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.expr ... -Group/amp
 
User avatar
flyingclrs727
Posts: 2626
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:50 am

Coronavirus Could Bankrupt Most Airlines by End of May, Consultant Warns
By Anurag Kotoky
March 16, 2020, 1:18 AM CDT


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... Wfeqhx3s6Y

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