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Plane Holland
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:21 pm

KLM 685 currently flying over the middle of the Atlantic enroute to Mexico. About to return to Amsterdam.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:58 pm

China air service continues to increase

CZ A380 returns to LAX after downgauge to 787. CAN-LAX frequency also increased to 5x weekly.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
altairF28
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:04 pm

Haven't seen this asked yet and I know nobody wants to think about it but at this point we probably have to.

With almost every airline in the U.S. likely to file for bankruptcy sometime this year any idea as to who will be able to get DIP financing and go Ch. 11 and who won't and has to go Ch. 7? Also, with all this talk about how much furloughs and layoffs cost the airline will that make airlines more likely to file so they can shed the union contracts and said furloughs and layoffs will either cost less or will save more because they will now be able to layoff senior employees who make more?
A detour is a choice between two tasks, each with its own pros and cons
 
Ishrion
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:05 pm

LAXintl wrote:
China air service continues to increase

CZ A380 returns to LAX after downgauge to 787. CAN-LAX frequency also increased to 5x weekly.


Is there a link or something on that or is it loaded in their bookings?
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:08 pm

Ishrion wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
China air service continues to increase

CZ A380 returns to LAX after downgauge to 787. CAN-LAX frequency also increased to 5x weekly.


Is there a link or something on that or is it loaded in their bookings?


380 resumed yesterday.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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mercure1
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:10 pm

I saw Air China also increased LAX with additional frequencies and now also offers turnaround flights, no longer do all flights continue to SFO.
mercure f-wtcc
 
EIBPI
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:30 pm

Plane Holland wrote:
KLM 685 currently flying over the middle of the Atlantic enroute to Mexico. About to return to Amsterdam.


It did a bit of circling in the middle of the Atlantic and ended up diverting to MIA:
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 5#243ecc16
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:33 pm

DL717 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
Another major fallout from this crises will include the suspension of all construction and capital improvements at airports for the foreseeable future. That would mean projects like the replacement or major renovations of terminals will be indefinitely delayed, current projects partially unfinished for years as airport operators will have to use funds to pay workers, day to day operational costs and bondholders.


Projects may slow short term due to worker availability, but it won’t stop projects. A recession is likely and a recession is the time to build because the cost saving are tremendous.


Further, at least in the US and most of the EU the cost to 'divorce' can be huge. DIA was going thru the Great Hall Renovation, the contractor was late and huge claims. The Airport last fall chose to cancel the contract 'for convenience', often the cheaper way than spending years in court. It cost them $158M to get out of the contract. Now the new contractor can probably go gangbusters as it is easy to close half of the terminal at a time right now. Yes as DL717 notes, getting bids done when the market is soft is a great way to save 10 to 20%. Bidding in a hot market goes the opposite way, 10 to 30% added 'greed factor'.

https://www.denverpost.com/2020/03/20/d ... rmination/
 
JayinKitsap
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:40 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
trex8 wrote:
This is interesting. A and B get their "bailout", taxpayers get collateral.

https://www.flightglobal.com/air-transp ... 36.article


Airlines made commitments and should take up aircraft they ordered. Airbus forced Skymark into liquidation over that.
If the small print allows airlines to walk away, that's for Airbus to saddle.

We can't bail out both the airlines and the aircraft manufacturers and their entire supply chains.
Airbus and Boeing can shut production down, put the workers on welfare at the government's expense and burn a bit through their cash to keep essential services going.
Government should intervene in a major capacity only if Airbus or Boeing end up in bankruptcy.


Boeing has a bigger problem than Airbus for the MAX orders, Boeing is probably where cancellation without penalty can be in effect. But at the same time will Boeing continue to pay for grounded MAX planes, while Airbus is not paying for grounded planes. It may be cheaper for an airline to stay in the contract payment wise as Boeing is paying the costs.
 
onwFan
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:14 pm

Not sure if this was posted earlier, but here are the full details of DL's planned international cancellations till April end across Europe, Asia, Africa and Latin America:

https://news.delta.com/updated-changes- ... g-schedule
 
jevans900
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:19 pm

Does anyone know why there is an empty circle over Ohio, Kentucky, and West Virginia? It has been like this for hours, and I'm just wondering if it has to do with the coronavirus somehow. Image
 
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janders
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:40 pm

jevans900 wrote:
Does anyone know why there is an empty circle over Ohio, Kentucky, and West Virginia? It has been like this for hours, and I'm just wondering if it has to do with the coronavirus somehow.


Indy center has been closed for a while.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:42 pm

jevans900 wrote:
Does anyone know why there is an empty circle over Ohio, Kentucky, and West Virginia? It has been like this for hours, and I'm just wondering if it has to do with the coronavirus somehow. Image

Indianapolis Center has been either on ATC alert or at ATC zero for about 48 hours. Several areas are closed, and other areas have minimal staffing. One controller and one front line manager tested positive (they were from different areas).
 
peterinlisbon
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:51 pm

Ishrion wrote:
peterinlisbon wrote:
avier wrote:

You mean LHR third rwy won't be happening (?) ;)


Now is the perfect time to build it. Nobody is allowed to go out and protest.


I mean... if you need some extra aircraft storage :spin:


Genius. And the new terminal can be disguised as a field hospital.
 
greenair727
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:50 am

atcsundevil wrote:
jevans900 wrote:
Does anyone know why there is an empty circle over Ohio, Kentucky, and West Virginia? It has been like this for hours, and I'm just wondering if it has to do with the coronavirus somehow. Image

Indianapolis Center has been either on ATC alert or at ATC zero for about 48 hours. Several areas are closed, and other areas have minimal staffing. One controller and one front line manager tested positive (they were from different areas).


Does that mean no air service to Cincinnati, Columbus, or Indianapolis or other airports covered by ZID?
 
CRJ200flyer
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:45 am

greenair727 wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
jevans900 wrote:
Does anyone know why there is an empty circle over Ohio, Kentucky, and West Virginia? It has been like this for hours, and I'm just wondering if it has to do with the coronavirus somehow. Image

Indianapolis Center has been either on ATC alert or at ATC zero for about 48 hours. Several areas are closed, and other areas have minimal staffing. One controller and one front line manager tested positive (they were from different areas).


Does that mean no air service to Cincinnati, Columbus, or Indianapolis or other airports covered by ZID?


Even when center is down, routes can still be created by having aircraft transition from approach control to approach control at a lower altitude. I’m not sure in this particular case what’s being done this week for IND or CVG as I have been off work, but a buddy of mine yesterday flying DTW to EVV (in Southern Indiana) was sent west over northern Indiana and then straight down the Indiana/Illinois border talking to Chicago Center most of the way.
Last edited by CRJ200flyer on Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:48 am

CRJ200flyer wrote:
greenair727 wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
Indianapolis Center has been either on ATC alert or at ATC zero for about 48 hours. Several areas are closed, and other areas have minimal staffing. One controller and one front line manager tested positive (they were from different areas).


Does that mean no air service to Cincinnati, Columbus, or Indianapolis or other airports covered by ZID?


Even when center is down, routes can still be created by having aircraft transition from approach control to approach control at a lower altitude. I’m not sure in this particular case what’s being done this week for IND or CVG as I haven’t been off work, but a buddy of mine yesterday flying DTW to EVV (in Southern Indiana) was sent west over northern Indiana and then straight down the Indiana/Illinois border talking to Chicago Center most of the way.

Only on the east coast. On the west coast there are large areas without approach controls. Also what’s your plan when an approach control goes ATC 0 any day now?
 
CRJ200flyer
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:54 am

32andBelow wrote:
CRJ200flyer wrote:
greenair727 wrote:

Does that mean no air service to Cincinnati, Columbus, or Indianapolis or other airports covered by ZID?


Even when center is down, routes can still be created by having aircraft transition from approach control to approach control at a lower altitude. I’m not sure in this particular case what’s being done this week for IND or CVG as I haven’t been off work, but a buddy of mine yesterday flying DTW to EVV (in Southern Indiana) was sent west over northern Indiana and then straight down the Indiana/Illinois border talking to Chicago Center most of the way.


Only on the east coast. On the west coast there are large areas without approach controls. Also what’s your plan when an approach control goes ATC 0 any day now?


Uh that’s definitely not true. I remember when Chicago Center went down from that fire started by the irate employee. My friend at Southwest was telling me how they’d be descending down 100 miles west of Chicago with either Kansas City or Minneapolis Center (? It’s been awhile so the details are fuzzy) and then handed off to Rockford Approach then over to Chicago Approach. On the flip side they’d be handed off from I think Cleveland Center to South Bend Approach before switching over to Chicago Approach. The exact details are fuzzy but they had come up with a detailed route plan from multiple directions in order to funnel the traffic into Midway. It wasn’t pretty and capacity was reduced, but it kept the airports alive.

EDIT: Unless you’re referring to the Midwest as part of the east coast, but your reply to a question about Indy Center made me think otherwise!

Regarding the question what’s my plan when an approach control goes ATC 0? Well I’m just a lowly airline pilot, so I haven’t seen the plan for air traffic control to follow in that exact instance. But I’d imagine if I was flying into that airport hopefully they’d give me a heads up they were evacuating beforehand so they could hand me back to center or tower. After that point, I’d imagine traffic would be halted into the airport until a work around could be established. I’d guess if the field was VFR conditions center would be able to get you close and conduct visuals, but if it was IFR, that would take a while to come up with a new plan and would depend upon the abilities and staffing of center, and the specific location of the airport. That’s my two cents for what it’s worth.

And what I think you might be driving at is at what point does the cookie finally crumble? Frankly I wish they would just shut everything down for two weeks and take a breather. The factors are getting tiring - empty airplanes, delays from ATC virus issues, some airports having no food in the terminal (or one McDonald’s 15 gates away with a 20 person line) forcing us to eat tiny snacks, going to hotels with food closed in every direction and having to hop on the apps to find affordable food for delivery, and some of my friends with elderly parents worrying every day about accidentally bringing that virus home to them. Enough!
Last edited by CRJ200flyer on Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:20 am, edited 3 times in total.
 
SkyVoice
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:14 am

This sort of thing happens here (Northern Kentucky) every night. While the huge Amazon / DHL hub is going at CVG, so is the UPS Worldport at SDF. When UPS freighters from the East Coast overfly CVG, they make contact with CVG Approach, advising that they are descending at FL140 over Warsaw, Kentucky.
"Facing a crisis does not not build one's character, it reveals it."

"Tough times don't last. Tough people do."

- Robert H. Schuller
 
32andBelow
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:38 am

CRJ200flyer wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
CRJ200flyer wrote:

Even when center is down, routes can still be created by having aircraft transition from approach control to approach control at a lower altitude. I’m not sure in this particular case what’s being done this week for IND or CVG as I haven’t been off work, but a buddy of mine yesterday flying DTW to EVV (in Southern Indiana) was sent west over northern Indiana and then straight down the Indiana/Illinois border talking to Chicago Center most of the way.


Only on the east coast. On the west coast there are large areas without approach controls. Also what’s your plan when an approach control goes ATC 0 any day now?


Uh that’s definitely not true. I remember when Chicago Center went down from that fire started by the irate employee. My friend at Southwest was telling me how they’d be descending down 100 miles west of Chicago with either Kansas City or Minneapolis Center (? It’s been awhile so the details are fuzzy) and then handed off to Rockford Approach then over to Chicago Approach. On the flip side they’d be handed off from I think Cleveland Center to South Bend Approach before switching over to Chicago Approach. The exact details are fuzzy but they had come up with a detailed route plan from multiple directions in order to funnel the traffic into Midway. It wasn’t pretty and capacity was reduced, but it kept the airports alive.

EDIT: Unless you’re referring to the Midwest as part of the east coast, but your reply to a question about Indy Center made me think otherwise!

Regarding the question what’s my plan when an approach control goes ATC 0? Well I’m just a lowly airline pilot, so I haven’t seen the plan for air traffic control to follow in that exact instance. But I’d imagine if I was flying into that airport hopefully they’d give me a heads up they were evacuating beforehand so they could hand me back to center or tower. After that point, I’d imagine traffic would be halted into the airport until a work around could be established. I’d guess if the field was VFR conditions center would be able to get you close and conduct visuals, but if it was IFR, that would take a while to come up with a new plan and would depend upon the abilities and staffing of center, and the specific location of the airport. That’s my two cents for what it’s worth.

And what I think you might be driving at is at what point does the cookie finally crumble? Frankly I wish they would just shut everything down for two weeks and take a breather. The factors are getting tiring - empty airplanes, delays from ATC virus issues, some airports having no food in the terminal (or one McDonald’s 15 gates away with a 20 person line) forcing us to eat tiny snacks, going to hotels with food closed in every direction and having to hop on the apps to find affordable food for delivery, and some of my friends with elderly parents worrying every day about accidentally bringing that virus home to them. Enough!

I meant west of the Missippi. Center works down to the ground in places like
Montana and Wyoming and Colorado and Alaska. So if there’s a gap at say salt lake center you couldn’t just go at 14000 feet. Unless you wanted to go VFR.
 
Lootess
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:47 am

Next time you call Delta, the agent might have the Sprit of Delta (767) behind them.

Definitely adhering to social distancing.

Image

https://news.delta.com/deltas-res-care-team-shines-time-uncertainty
 
Akwagon
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:38 am

Mandatory 14 day quarantine for ALL flights coming into Hawaii...

https://apnews.com/9a9267e5e23aa5cd66b1 ... WestRegion
 
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qf789
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:52 am

All international flights to Beijing must do a tech stop at 1 of 12 other airports for medical and quarantine checks before heading to Beijing

https://twitter.com/ChinaAvReview/statu ... 27424?s=20
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Waterbomber2
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:59 am

I wonder, how is it possible that ATCO's in the U.S. are testing positive one after the other?
It's not like they are all working in tight quarters and coming in contact with a lot of people?

Has there been an ATC convention that all these Atco's went to?

Is it transmitted through radio?
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:16 am

(Reuters) - The British government is planning to buy equity stakes in airlines and other companies affected by the coronavirus pandemic, the Financial Times reported https://on.ft.com/2QypHcc on Saturday.

The government plans to invest billions of pounds in companies including IAG-owned British Airways (L:ICAG) in return for shares that would eventually be sold back to private investors, the newspaper reported, citing people familiar with the matter.

The move comes after the government was warned that its economic support packages, including a 330 billion-pound ($385 billion) lifeline of loan guarantees, will not be enough to save companies from collapse, the paper reported.

https://www.investing.com/news/stock-ma ... ft-2117791

Totally unacceptable if carried out before BA files for administration/insolvency/bankruptcy. Even AZ didn't get this much luxury.
Will the government invest in Flybe too? Why should they fail while BA gets to live?
Are they also going to do it for U2 and VS? How will they decide who gets how much?

If this happens before the airlines go into administration, the EU should severely restrict UK airlines' access to the EU and revoke open skies agreements.

Will the UK do the same for all travel companies, hotels, B&B's and everyone affected?
Where does it end?

Boris does not seem to be thinking things true, too much panic/emotion.
Last edited by Waterbomber2 on Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
hpff
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:26 am

Waterbomber2 wrote:
(Reuters) - The British government is planning to buy equity stakes in airlines and other companies affected by the coronavirus pandemic, the Financial Times reported https://on.ft.com/2QypHcc on Saturday.

The government plans to invest billions of pounds in companies including IAG-owned British Airways (L:ICAG) in return for shares that would eventually be sold back to private investors, the newspaper reported, citing people familiar with the matter.

The move comes after the government was warned that its economic support packages, including a 330 billion-pound ($385 billion) lifeline of loan guarantees, will not be enough to save companies from collapse, the paper reported.

https://www.investing.com/news/stock-ma ... ft-2117791

Totally unacceptable if carried out before BA files for administration/insolvency/bankruptcy. Even AZ didn't get this much luxury.
Will the government invest in Flybe too? Why should they fail while BA gets to live?

If this happens before the airlines go into administration, the EU should severely restrict BA's access to the EU.


Why would you think this is unacceptable? If Qantas or Virgin Australia are in need of money to survive, I'd much rather have the government receive stock in exchange for a bailout than just having a corporate handout like you see in the US. It's not as if they're nationalising for the sake of nationalising.
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:31 am

T18 wrote:
ZNY is closed from what we hear seeing a ton of diversions light up all along the eastern US.

A ton of diversion flights from ZNY? How many? What airport is ZNY? I have never heard of it. Wikipedia doesn't even list it.
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:34 am

Lootess wrote:
Next time you call Delta, the agent might have the Sprit of Delta (767) behind them.

Definitely adhering to social distancing.

Image

https://news.delta.com/deltas-res-care-team-shines-time-uncertainty


Big props to their IT team. That's no small feat to turn around instantly and on top of BAU stuff. Though it makes me wonder if we'll see such requirements put in place for offices in general? Workers have been crammed in like sardines you're basically rubbing shoulders with the person next to you.
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:34 am

hpff wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:
(Reuters) - The British government is planning to buy equity stakes in airlines and other companies affected by the coronavirus pandemic, the Financial Times reported https://on.ft.com/2QypHcc on Saturday.

The government plans to invest billions of pounds in companies including IAG-owned British Airways (L:ICAG) in return for shares that would eventually be sold back to private investors, the newspaper reported, citing people familiar with the matter.

The move comes after the government was warned that its economic support packages, including a 330 billion-pound ($385 billion) lifeline of loan guarantees, will not be enough to save companies from collapse, the paper reported.

https://www.investing.com/news/stock-ma ... ft-2117791

Totally unacceptable if carried out before BA files for administration/insolvency/bankruptcy. Even AZ didn't get this much luxury.
Will the government invest in Flybe too? Why should they fail while BA gets to live?

If this happens before the airlines go into administration, the EU should severely restrict BA's access to the EU.


Why would you think this is unacceptable? If Qantas or Virgin Australia are in need of money to survive, I'd much rather have the government receive stock in exchange for a bailout than just having a corporate handout like you see in the US. It's not as if they're nationalising for the sake of nationalising.


The US won't be giving any handouts, see the thread in non-aviation.

There is a huge difference between "nationalising" and "buying equity stakes".
Acquiring a stake means that all other shareholders get to keep their (diluted) share. Sure, the government can sell their stake higher later and make money on the difference, but any cash sunk into the airline will stay in the airline. That is de-facto a "grant" or a handout.

I can accept nationalising under administration, ie all other shareholders losing their shares, airline trimmed back, concessions vis-a-vis competitors, like what JAL went through.

Why not give out loans like the US is planning to?

UK airlines don't have an equity/solvency problem, they have a liquidity problem.
 
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qf789
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:01 am

TK to suspend nearly all ops later this week, resulting in most aircraft being grounded

https://twitter.com/alexinair/status/12 ... 41792?s=21
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bennett123
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:12 am

Have TK said how long they are suspending for?.
 
CheckNorris
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:17 am

Montreal based Canadian charter carrier Nolinor flew one of its B732s from YMX to CMN via YYR-KEF-SNN to pick up stranded Canadian citizens. A rather odd decision I would say considering all those wide-bodies currently sitting idle. The only reason I can think of that makes sense of this unusual decision is that this was the most cost effective option. Your thoughts? (mods, please delete if it has been posted already)

https://simpleflying.com/canada-737-rescue/
 
SwissCanuck
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:59 am

CheckNorris wrote:
Montreal based Canadian charter carrier Nolinor flew one of its B732s from YMX to CMN via YYR-KEF-SNN to pick up stranded Canadian citizens. A rather odd decision I would say considering all those wide-bodies currently sitting idle. The only reason I can think of that makes sense of this unusual decision is that this was the most cost effective option. Your thoughts? (mods, please delete if it has been posted already)

https://simpleflying.com/canada-737-rescue/


What the actual fu...... Why didn't they break out a DC-3 while they're at it?
 
Noshow
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:12 am

Avro Arrow. That would be classy.
 
Aceskywalker
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:13 am

Akwagon wrote:
Mandatory 14 day quarantine for ALL flights coming into Hawaii...

https://apnews.com/9a9267e5e23aa5cd66b1 ... WestRegion


This is gonna hit HA hard. Wouldn’t be surprised if deferring those 787s will be on the table.
 
Opus99
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British Airways Partly Nationalised

Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:34 am

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brit ... -m50j2dvjn

According to this times article. BA could be partly nationalised according to sources and that could mean a break up of IAG?
 
Lofty
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Re: British Airways Partly Nationalised

Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:39 am

I think it is right for the government to look at all options but because they are looking at options does not mean they will be used.
 
CheckNorris
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:45 am

SwissCanuck wrote:
CheckNorris wrote:
Montreal based Canadian charter carrier Nolinor flew one of its B732s from YMX to CMN via YYR-KEF-SNN to pick up stranded Canadian citizens. A rather odd decision I would say considering all those wide-bodies currently sitting idle. The only reason I can think of that makes sense of this unusual decision is that this was the most cost effective option. Your thoughts? (mods, please delete if it has been posted already)

https://simpleflying.com/canada-737-rescue/


What the actual fu...... Why didn't they break out a DC-3 while they're at it?


Maybe it's a rescue flight for stranded Canadian aviation enthusiasts: 'If it's not (a classic) Boeing, I'm not going!' :duck:
 
goosebayguy
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Re: British Airways Partly Nationalised

Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:48 am

Its a tricky casee this because IAG are very Spanish centric. Headquarters in Spain, Iberia, Iberia Express, Veulling and the purchase of Air Europa. Why should a Britsh tapayer support service in Spain?
Will it lead to a break up of IAG?
 
Kilopond
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:31 am

CheckNorris wrote:
[...]Nolinor flew one of its B732s from YMX to CMN via YYR-KEF-SNN to pick up stranded Canadian citizens. [...]Your thoughts?[...]


I don´t believe it has to do anything with costs. First of all, it is up to the Moroccan authorities to decide who could get an excemption from the general flight ban. Additionally, this way the airmen could avoid beeing quaranined in Morocco by just flying SNN-CMN-SNN with one single crew.
 
sabby
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:55 am

Waterbomber2 wrote:
I wonder, how is it possible that ATCO's in the U.S. are testing positive one after the other?
It's not like they are all working in tight quarters and coming in contact with a lot of people?

Has there been an ATC convention that all these Atco's went to?

Is it transmitted through radio?


The virus is highly contagious and it has 7-14 days incubation period. Those ATCOs do not get beamed from home, they have to take public transport or go to the gas station for their cars, need to go to the stores etc. and going by the general reaction till last week, very few took it seriously and actually tried to self-isolate. They are testing positive now as the incubation period is getting over and most of them would have contacted the virus from any of the dozens to hundreds of people they may have been come within 6 feet or touched surfaces that had the virus from other infected.
 
GoSteelers
Posts: 118
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:25 am

sabby wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:
I wonder, how is it possible that ATCO's in the U.S. are testing positive one after the other?
It's not like they are all working in tight quarters and coming in contact with a lot of people?

Has there been an ATC convention that all these Atco's went to?

Is it transmitted through radio?


The virus is highly contagious and it has 7-14 days incubation period. Those ATCOs do not get beamed from home, they have to take public transport or go to the gas station for their cars, need to go to the stores etc. and going by the general reaction till last week, very few took it seriously and actually tried to self-isolate. They are testing positive now as the incubation period is getting over and most of them would have contacted the virus from any of the dozens to hundreds of people they may have been come within 6 feet or touched surfaces that had the virus from other infected.


And we have been coming to work because we are considered essential. We’ve been offered to take sick or vacation leave if we want to stay home, but who is going to do that if they don’t feel symptoms.

Also, we basically all do work in confined areas in very close contact with other controllers in buildings that have relatively poor ventilation.
 
B777LRF
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:43 am

The Swiss government have allegedly refused to bail out Swiss, on the grounds it's a German owned carrier. They argue Swiss have made billions over the years which, instead of being used to bolster the airline, have been funnelled to Germany and spent propping up other loss making entities in the corporation. The further argument is that Swiss should be allowed to go bankrupt, and then bought for dimes on the dollar by Swiss entities. Which is the capitalism is supposed to work, to be honest, rather than this "privatised profits, socialised losses" approach company management seem to adopt.

It rather surprises me the UK government does not adopt the same approach, and demand a split of IAG as a condition for bailing out BA. The the Irish can bail out Aer Lingus and the Spanish the same with Iberia, Vueling and Air Europa.
Signature. You just read one.
 
CheckNorris
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:48 am

I don´t believe it has to do anything with costs. First of all, it is up to the Moroccan authorities to decide who could get an excemption from the general flight ban. Additionally, this way the airmen could avoid beeing quaranined in Morocco by just flying SNN-CMN-SNN with one single crew.


I don't think so. An AC777 was flown from YMX to CMN on the same day.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AirCanada/st ... gr%5Etweet
 
SeoulIncheon
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:31 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
T18 wrote:
ZNY is closed from what we hear seeing a ton of diversions light up all along the eastern US.

A ton of diversion flights from ZNY? How many? What airport is ZNY? I have never heard of it. Wikipedia doesn't even list it.

ZNY stands for NY area airports - jargon for airline booking searches. All of JFK EWR LGA are included but not sure if more minor ones are included too.
 
Arion640
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Re: British Airways Partly Nationalised

Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:48 pm

goosebayguy wrote:
Its a tricky casee this because IAG are very Spanish centric. Headquarters in Spain, Iberia, Iberia Express, Veulling and the purchase of Air Europa. Why should a Britsh tapayer support service in Spain?
Will it lead to a break up of IAG?


The UK government would have to buy into the BA legal entity rather than the IAG one i think. Further to that, IAG may refuse government action anyway.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1145
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:56 pm

B777LRF wrote:
The Swiss government have allegedly refused to bail out Swiss, on the grounds it's a German owned carrier. They argue Swiss have made billions over the years which, instead of being used to bolster the airline, have been funnelled to Germany and spent propping up other loss making entities in the corporation. The further argument is that Swiss should be allowed to go bankrupt, and then bought for dimes on the dollar by Swiss entities. Which is the capitalism is supposed to work, to be honest, rather than this "privatised profits, socialised losses" approach company management seem to adopt.

It rather surprises me the UK government does not adopt the same approach, and demand a split of IAG as a condition for bailing out BA. The the Irish can bail out Aer Lingus and the Spanish the same with Iberia, Vueling and Air Europa.


I understand their point but they certainly don’t want to lose Swiss.
 
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chepos
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Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:01 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
B777LRF wrote:
The Swiss government have allegedly refused to bail out Swiss, on the grounds it's a German owned carrier. They argue Swiss have made billions over the years which, instead of being used to bolster the airline, have been funnelled to Germany and spent propping up other loss making entities in the corporation. The further argument is that Swiss should be allowed to go bankrupt, and then bought for dimes on the dollar by Swiss entities. Which is the capitalism is supposed to work, to be honest, rather than this "privatised profits, socialised losses" approach company management seem to adopt.

It rather surprises me the UK government does not adopt the same approach, and demand a split of IAG as a condition for bailing out BA. The the Irish can bail out Aer Lingus and the Spanish the same with Iberia, Vueling and Air Europa.


I understand their point but they certainly don’t want to lose Swiss.

They gave up on SR........ at one point the epitome of Swiss excellence. With a global network, focused on Switzerland.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Fly the Flag!!!!
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:06 pm

SeoulIncheon wrote:
MartijnNL wrote:
T18 wrote:
ZNY is closed from what we hear seeing a ton of diversions light up all along the eastern US.

A ton of diversion flights from ZNY? How many? What airport is ZNY? I have never heard of it. Wikipedia doesn't even list it.

ZNY stands for NY area airports - jargon for airline booking searches. All of JFK EWR LGA are included but not sure if more minor ones are included too.


Not quite. ZNY is the facility code for New York ARTCC. The en route ATC facility over much of the NE.
 
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Exrampieyyz
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:08 pm

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