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ual763
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:20 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
I wonder, how is it possible that ATCO's in the U.S. are testing positive one after the other?
It's not like they are all working in tight quarters and coming in contact with a lot of people?

Has there been an ATC convention that all these Atco's went to?

Is it transmitted through radio?


All it takes is one of them to have gone out drinking/partying and then bring it back to the facility. If you’ve ever known a controller, this is more the norm rather than the exception. No doubt, a number of them went out to the bars for St. Patties day.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
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qf789
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:25 pm

All flights to DEL will be suspended from 600 23 March to 31 March 20

https://twitter.com/vinamralongani/stat ... 59713?s=21
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par13del
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:27 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
B777LRF wrote:
The Swiss government have allegedly refused to bail out Swiss, on the grounds it's a German owned carrier. They argue Swiss have made billions over the years which, instead of being used to bolster the airline, have been funnelled to Germany and spent propping up other loss making entities in the corporation. The further argument is that Swiss should be allowed to go bankrupt, and then bought for dimes on the dollar by Swiss entities. Which is the capitalism is supposed to work, to be honest, rather than this "privatised profits, socialised losses" approach company management seem to adopt.

It rather surprises me the UK government does not adopt the same approach, and demand a split of IAG as a condition for bailing out BA. The the Irish can bail out Aer Lingus and the Spanish the same with Iberia, Vueling and Air Europa.


I understand their point but they certainly don’t want to lose Swiss.

Well if they are saying it is a German company.....they already lost it, so maybe they are looking to reclaim it on the cheap.....how will that work out the second time around....what will be different?
 
SCQ83
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:29 pm

At this point, rather than suspended routes, it would be better to know which routes are still operating for each carrier.

And try to guess how many hundreds of routes will not come back at least for the foreseeable future.
 
716131
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:41 pm

Bad news now. Now EK is suspending flights as well effective March 25.

https://www.emirates.com/media-centre/t ... -covid-19/
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
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cathay747
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:47 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
SeoulIncheon wrote:
MartijnNL wrote:
A ton of diversion flights from ZNY? How many? What airport is ZNY? I have never heard of it. Wikipedia doesn't even list it.

ZNY stands for NY area airports - jargon for airline booking searches. All of JFK EWR LGA are included but not sure if more minor ones are included too.


Not quite. ZNY is the facility code for New York ARTCC. The en route ATC facility over much of the NE.


I realize it's probably without thought and from force of habit, but I do wish people would stop using codes for ATC facilities for the very reason that MartijnNL posted...some of you may know what ZNY or XYZPDQ95 means, but most of us don't as most of us don't work for ATC. Same as how I wish a few people wouldn't use codes for obscure airports...most members probably know the codes of the "major" airports of the world, but even I, working in travel management for 38 years, run into one on here from time to time that stumps me...and please also stick to IATA codes, not ICAO 4-letter codes. Just a polite request to help out those not-so-in-the-know. Thanks!
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sabby
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:51 pm

I am just wondering, if a very large population of most of the countries are infected by May/June , would Governments remove the blockades / embargo to ease on the economy ?
 
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SQ22
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:57 pm

sabby wrote:
I am just wondering, if a very large population of most of the countries are infected by May/June , would Governments remove the blockades / embargo to ease on the economy ?


This is a very valid question, but please discuss it here:

Novel Coronavirus outbreak
 
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cathay747
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Re: British Airways Partly Nationalised

Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:59 pm

Arion640 wrote:
goosebayguy wrote:
Its a tricky casee this because IAG are very Spanish centric. Headquarters in Spain, Iberia, Iberia Express, Veulling and the purchase of Air Europa. Why should a Britsh tapayer support service in Spain?
Will it lead to a break up of IAG?


The UK government would have to buy into the BA legal entity rather than the IAG one i think. Further to that, IAG may refuse government action anyway.


You know, I'm thinking this global disaster could result in the breakup of many multi-nationals for the very reason being debated here about IAG and the LH Group. U.K. taxpayers sure as hell won't want to be forking out to help save a Spanish company; French won't want to do the same for Dutch and vice-versa; Swiss citizens and govt. won't want to bail out a company owned by a German group, etc. I fear nationalism is going to rear it's head unless govts. figure out a way to divvy up between them any bailouts, and by the time they'd argue that to death, the company in question will be kaput.
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atcsundevil
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:01 pm

cathay747 wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
SeoulIncheon wrote:
ZNY stands for NY area airports - jargon for airline booking searches. All of JFK EWR LGA are included but not sure if more minor ones are included too.


Not quite. ZNY is the facility code for New York ARTCC. The en route ATC facility over much of the NE.


I realize it's probably without thought and from force of habit, but I do wish people would stop using codes for ATC facilities for the very reason that MartijnNL posted...some of you may know what ZNY or XYZPDQ95 means, but most of us don't as most of us don't work for ATC. Same as how I wish a few people wouldn't use codes for obscure airports...most members probably know the codes of the "major" airports of the world, but even I, working in travel management for 38 years, run into one on here from time to time that stumps me...and please also stick to IATA codes, not ICAO 4-letter codes. Just a polite request to help out those not-so-in-the-know. Thanks!

ZNY was mentioned several times up thread mentioning that it was New York Center. Even if you Google "ZNY", the first several results yield the correct answer. I realize that it's not ideal to use obscure codes (or in this case, codes unfamiliar to many outside of the FAA), but if it was already mentioned several times in the thread, it should be considered acceptable for use without translation.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:07 pm

qf789 wrote:
All flights to DEL will be suspended from 600 23 March to 31 March 20

https://twitter.com/vinamralongani/stat ... 59713?s=21


There are conflicting reports. State/Union Territory announced it will be closed. CAA and Feds are saying it will be open. Like anything with Indian Civil Aviation, this is a political topic now.

https://twitter.com/shukla_tarun/status ... 7782564864
All posts are just opinions.
 
 
uta999
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:23 pm

Could the likes of EasyJet and Ryanair be in trouble if this goes on beyond the summer?

Not sure how much government support there will be, and they could emerge a lot smaller once a recovery starts.
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mxaxai
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Re: British Airways Partly Nationalised

Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:24 pm

cathay747 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
goosebayguy wrote:
Its a tricky casee this because IAG are very Spanish centric. Headquarters in Spain, Iberia, Iberia Express, Veulling and the purchase of Air Europa. Why should a Britsh tapayer support service in Spain?
Will it lead to a break up of IAG?


The UK government would have to buy into the BA legal entity rather than the IAG one i think. Further to that, IAG may refuse government action anyway.


You know, I'm thinking this global disaster could result in the breakup of many multi-nationals for the very reason being debated here about IAG and the LH Group. U.K. taxpayers sure as hell won't want to be forking out to help save a Spanish company; French won't want to do the same for Dutch and vice-versa; Swiss citizens and govt. won't want to bail out a company owned by a German group, etc. I fear nationalism is going to rear it's head unless govts. figure out a way to divvy up between them any bailouts, and by the time they'd argue that to death, the company in question will be kaput.

That would be the death of several airlines / brands. Most of these mergers weren't exactly love marriages.

It'll certainly be interesting to see whether governments support all airlines equally or give special deals to their favorite airlines. I could totally see them bail out BA but let Jet2 die.
 
xwb777
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Emirates to suspend operations by March 25

Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:28 pm

In a statement by Sheikh Ahmed Bin Saeed Al Maktoum, Emirates Group Chairman, Emirates will be temporarily suspending global operations by March 25, as the Coronovirus is hitting the airline hard as other global airlines, and the global travel demand is at the bottom. The airline will continue cargo operations, as cargo operations remain strong globally. The airline will be closely monitoring the situation and will be instating services if required.

For the airline's staff, the airline will take the following measures:

1) A temporary reduction of basic salary for the majority of Emirates Group employees for three months, ranging from 25% to 50%.

2)Employees will continue to be paid their other allowances during this time. Junior level employees will be exempt from basic salary reduction.

3)Emirates President Tim Clark and Dnata President Gary Chapman will take a 100% basic salary cut for three months.


For the cargo operations, I guess EK will be using passenger aircraft to support the lost belly cargo and freighter fleet.


Source: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... iddle-east
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:58 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
ZNY was mentioned several times up thread mentioning that it was New York Center. Even if you Google "ZNY", the first several results yield the correct answer.

I searched for "ZNY IATA code" and "ZNY IATA". The first result was a Spanish website which gave an error when I tried to access it. The other results were not helpful either, one mentioning Wilkes-Barre/Scranton International Airport.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:09 pm

Even though Emirates will be suspending passenger operations, this is where its massive B77W fleet could be used as cargo only. (Etihad is down-gauging AUH-JFK to the B77W.)

At Swiss, I'm surprised that they're using a handful of A340s for ZRH-EWR (the only long-haul route still in operation) instead of an A330, since the range of the A340 isn't needed and the Boeing 777/787 and Airbus A330/A350 are ideal for belly cargo ops.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:13 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
ZNY was mentioned several times up thread mentioning that it was New York Center. Even if you Google "ZNY", the first several results yield the correct answer.

I searched for "ZNY IATA code" and "ZNY IATA". The first result was a Spanish website which gave an error when I tried to access it. The other results were not helpful either, one mentioning Wilkes-Barre/Scranton International Airport.

Because it isn't an IATA code. Just search for "ZNY". This is the first search result https://123atc.com/facility/ZNY
 
MartijnNL
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:22 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
Because it isn't an IATA code. Just search for "ZNY". This is the first search result https://123atc.com/facility/ZNY

Not where I live. This is the first result I get:
https://www.coingecko.com/nl/coins/bitzeny

But I must admit result number eight yields:
https://123atc.com/facility/ZNY

Still don't know what ARTCC stands for. Will try to google it.
 
pdp
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:29 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
MartijnNL wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
ZNY was mentioned several times up thread mentioning that it was New York Center. Even if you Google "ZNY", the first several results yield the correct answer.

I searched for "ZNY IATA code" and "ZNY IATA". The first result was a Spanish website which gave an error when I tried to access it. The other results were not helpful either, one mentioning Wilkes-Barre/Scranton International Airport.

Because it isn't an IATA code. Just search for "ZNY". This is the first search result https://123atc.com/facility/ZNY


The international code for New York is KZNY. ZNY seems to be an FAA code.
 
trex8
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:33 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Even though Emirates will be suspending passenger operations, this is where its massive B77W fleet could be used as cargo only. (Etihad is down-gauging AUH-JFK to the B77W.)

At Swiss, I'm surprised that they're using a handful of A340s for ZRH-EWR (the only long-haul route still in operation) instead of an A330, since the range of the A340 isn't needed and the Boeing 777/787 and Airbus A330/A350 are ideal for belly cargo ops.


Running the clock out on a plane they were planning on retiring soon? Putting on hours on eg the A330s may need major mx needed soon which may stretch their cash in the near future.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:35 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
Because it isn't an IATA code. Just search for "ZNY". This is the first search result https://123atc.com/facility/ZNY

Not where I live. This is the first result I get:
https://www.coingecko.com/nl/coins/bitzeny

But I must admit result number eight yields:
https://123atc.com/facility/ZNY

Still don't know what ARTCC stands for. Will try to google it.

Air Route Traffic Control Center. Other parts of the world refer to them as Area Control Centers.
 
asuflyer
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:37 pm

MartijnNL wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
Because it isn't an IATA code. Just search for "ZNY". This is the first search result https://123atc.com/facility/ZNY

Not where I live. This is the first result I get:
https://www.coingecko.com/nl/coins/bitzeny

But I must admit result number eight yields:
https://123atc.com/facility/ZNY

Still don't know what ARTCC stands for. Will try to google it.


ZNY ARTCC is the New York Air Traffic Control Center. It is located in Ronkonkoma, New York and controls New York Center as well as New York Oceanic Airspace. Right now large parts of New York Oceanic Airspace are shut down due to reduced number of workers.

Image

https://www.cfinotebook.net/notebook/ai ... rol-center
 
avier
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:39 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
qf789 wrote:
All flights to DEL will be suspended from 600 23 March to 31 March 20

https://twitter.com/vinamralongani/stat ... 59713?s=21


There are conflicting reports. State/Union Territory announced it will be closed. CAA and Feds are saying it will be open. Like anything with Indian Civil Aviation, this is a political topic now.

https://twitter.com/shukla_tarun/status ... 7782564864


Delhi Airport to remain operational for domestic flights: Government

Read more at:
http://m.timesofindia.com/articleshow/7 ... aign=cppst

DEL airport comes under Central govt, so local Delhi Govt. can't decide on this.
 
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Antaras
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:46 pm

Let's talk a bit about the impact of this pandemic to the carriers.

Do anyone think that carriers which operate a large number of leased airframes damaged the most? As comparisons to the carriers which mostly operate their own airframes, mostly-leased carriers have to spend some more millions of dollar to lease the aircraft. Now I think that this pandemic will hurt carriers which follow the risky "sale and lease back" strategy.

I am worried about Bamboo Airways. It operates a full leased fleet including a bunch of neos as well as 3 789s. As I know that the cost to least the neos and the Dreamliners is very expensive, I think that it would be a troublesome time for QH.
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ghdc10
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:50 pm

Breathe wrote:



This is bad news for any travelers from countries not conducting repatriation flights. A major loss of connectivity around the world. Does anyone know where EK will park its fleet? I can imagine DWC is able to take a few.
 
SwissCanuck
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:00 pm

ghdc10 wrote:
Breathe wrote:



This is bad news for any travelers from countries not conducting repatriation flights. A major loss of connectivity around the world. Does anyone know where EK will park its fleet? I can imagine DWC is able to take a few.


A friend is trying to get back from POM to GVA. Couldn't find anything for her (less than 15K USD) before her scheduled flight on Saturday. I think she's on Qatar through MNL and DOH. I also think she's spending the next couple months in POM. IF she doesn't get sick that's going to be a great place to ride this out. IF... :frown:
 
ShamrockBoi330
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:04 pm

uta999 wrote:
Could the likes of EasyJet and Ryanair be in trouble if this goes on beyond the summer?

Not sure how much government support there will be, and they could emerge a lot smaller once a recovery starts.


In an interview yesterday, MOL indicated they could last maybe 12 months like this with no flights or revenue.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0 ... pay-by-50/
 
VSMUT
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:22 pm

ghdc10 wrote:
Breathe wrote:



This is bad news for any travelers from countries not conducting repatriation flights. A major loss of connectivity around the world. Does anyone know where EK will park its fleet? I can imagine DWC is able to take a few.


Does it really matter where they park them at this point? They can just fill up the stands and block a runway at DXB. It's not like anybody is going to need the capacity.
 
abcgogo
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:22 pm

Everyone, I keep hearing news about flight suspensions and seeing pictures of aircraft grounded.

But when I open Flightradar24, I see so many aircraft in the sky, as if it were night-time operations (little less than daytime, but not that much). The skies over Europe and USA are just as crowded, IMHO, as before.

I do not understand, what is happening here ? How are there so many flights in the air inspite of such mass shutdowns and social distancing measures being enforced ?
 
wexfordflyer
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:24 pm

abcgogo wrote:
Everyone, I keep hearing news about flight suspensions and seeing pictures of aircraft grounded.

But when I open Flightradar24, I see so many aircraft in the sky, as if it were night-time operations (little less than daytime, but not that much). The skies over Europe and USA are just as crowded, IMHO, as before.

I do not understand, what is happening here ? How are there so many flights in the air inspite of such mass shutdowns and social distancing measures being enforced ?


A lot of them are flying with very little, or almost no, passengers
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N6168E
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:28 pm

This link to a glossary of Traffic Flow Management Terms from the National Business Aviation Association.
https://nbaa.org/aircraft-operations/ai ... ent-terms/

Mods,
Would it be possible to create a sticky with links to some pages like this. It would be a big help when some of these abbreviations come up. ZYW came up earlier and I had no idea what it was (New York Oceanic Airspace). The map of centers in #1527 would be another good candidate for the sticky.
The Operations Pan Advisory came up earlier https://www.fly.faa.gov/adv/adv_spt.jsp and is another good one to keep handy.
Thanks!
 
sovietjet
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Coronavirus relief flights

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:32 pm

I know there is a thread already about the impact to aviation due to COVID-19, but this thread is about the relief flights ONLY. Examples are the Samaritan's purse DC-8 flights to Italy or Russia sending Il-76s with supplies to Italy, and etc. What other relief flights have there been to Italy and Europe as a whole? Anything from within the EU, or the USA? It would be interesting if we can tally them up here. And what about any relief flights to China, Iran or the USA?
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:32 pm

Emirates seems to have changed its decision a little.

It will continue to fly to a few countries (13 as of now) as long as borders are open.

It is a fluid situation.

https://twitter.com/emirates/status/1241755720414105600
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davidjohnson6
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:36 pm

abcgogo wrote:
Everyone, I keep hearing news about flight suspensions and seeing pictures of aircraft grounded.

But when I open Flightradar24, I see so many aircraft in the sky, as if it were night-time operations (little less than daytime, but not that much). The skies over Europe and USA are just as crowded, IMHO, as before.

I do not understand, what is happening here ? How are there so many flights in the air inspite of such mass shutdowns and social distancing measures being enforced ?


FR24 seems to indicate that yesterday (21 March), number of flights was down about 30% compared to 2 weeks ago - https://www.flightradar24.com/data/statistics
It is perhaps worth noting that planned suspensions of ops are announced a few days or more before the suspension happens. Thus Dubai right now will still have plenty of aircraft flying in/out. Wait until next weekend and it will become a lot quieter.
One should also remember that freigter flights will continue - as will some passenger aicraft that previously flew with a fully belly of cargo but are now cargo only

One should not expect to see the equivalent of the 2010 Icelandic volcano when the skies really did empty...
 
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Aesma
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Re: Coronavirus relief flights

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:38 pm

In the initial phase of the epidemic there has been flights to China, I know France sent medical supplies to China.

China has sent supplies to Italy, that have been stolen by the Czech Republic... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 16711.html
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ghdc10
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:48 pm

VSMUT wrote:
ghdc10 wrote:
Breathe wrote:



This is bad news for any travelers from countries not conducting repatriation flights. A major loss of connectivity around the world. Does anyone know where EK will park its fleet? I can imagine DWC is able to take a few.


Does it really matter where they park them at this point? They can just fill up the stands and block a runway at DXB. It's not like anybody is going to need the capacity.


Emirates has more than 250 widebody birds out there (excluding its skycargo operation) They cannot all come to roost at DXB in adition to fly dubai aircraft. So yes, it does matter. There are 173 stands at DXB which is clearly not enough considering flydubai has 54 aircraft
 
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Aesma
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Re: British Airways Partly Nationalised

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:49 pm

cathay747 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
goosebayguy wrote:
Its a tricky casee this because IAG are very Spanish centric. Headquarters in Spain, Iberia, Iberia Express, Veulling and the purchase of Air Europa. Why should a Britsh tapayer support service in Spain?
Will it lead to a break up of IAG?


The UK government would have to buy into the BA legal entity rather than the IAG one i think. Further to that, IAG may refuse government action anyway.


You know, I'm thinking this global disaster could result in the breakup of many multi-nationals for the very reason being debated here about IAG and the LH Group. U.K. taxpayers sure as hell won't want to be forking out to help save a Spanish company; French won't want to do the same for Dutch and vice-versa; Swiss citizens and govt. won't want to bail out a company owned by a German group, etc. I fear nationalism is going to rear it's head unless govts. figure out a way to divvy up between them any bailouts, and by the time they'd argue that to death, the company in question will be kaput.


In the case of AFKL it's worth so little that the French government could bail it out single handedly without issue, now the question is, would the NL government allow it, when it had just bought shares to try and balance things out ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
VSMUT
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:04 pm

ghdc10 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
ghdc10 wrote:


This is bad news for any travelers from countries not conducting repatriation flights. A major loss of connectivity around the world. Does anyone know where EK will park its fleet? I can imagine DWC is able to take a few.


Does it really matter where they park them at this point? They can just fill up the stands and block a runway at DXB. It's not like anybody is going to need the capacity.


Emirates has more than 250 widebody birds out there (excluding its skycargo operation) They cannot all come to roost at DXB in adition to fly dubai aircraft. So yes, it does matter. There are 173 stands at DXB which is clearly not enough considering flydubai has 54 aircraft


There is plenty of space. Just stuff them in on some blocked taxiways, aprons, a blocked runway, some of the gates etc. When it is just storage and not day to day operations, you can park them up much closer than normally. DXB has more than enough space to do that, should they decide to.
 
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aemoreira1981
Posts: 3607
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:06 pm

Antaras wrote:
Let's talk a bit about the impact of this pandemic to the carriers.

Do anyone think that carriers which operate a large number of leased airframes damaged the most? As comparisons to the carriers which mostly operate their own airframes, mostly-leased carriers have to spend some more millions of dollar to lease the aircraft. Now I think that this pandemic will hurt carriers which follow the risky "sale and lease back" strategy.

I am worried about Bamboo Airways. It operates a full leased fleet including a bunch of neos as well as 3 789s. As I know that the cost to least the neos and the Dreamliners is very expensive, I think that it would be a troublesome time for QH.


Also, Starlux in Taiwan. In the USA, I suspect that Frontier (all leased---the remaining owned frames were sold and leased back near the end of 2018), Sun Country (all leased), and American (highly in debt) are in big trouble. In Mexico, this could spell the end for Interjet, and Volaris may be waiting to pick at the carcass. I wouldn't be surprised if B6, with a low net debt load, attempted to buy NK, as the ULCC market is probably most vulnerable in the USA and the market includes G4 (which has low operations costs and is also vertically integrated), F9 (Frontier as mentioned prior), SY (Sun Country as mentioned prior) and NK (Spirit, which is about half-owned, half-leased). If you see a move by B6 to acquire NK, which may be in the realm of $850M to $950M (current market cap of NK is about $595M), it would probably be to kill NK and re-fleet B6 by adding on more A320 family planes, plus the costs to reconfigure them to the B6 standard, which in turn would right capacity in the USA and also provide B6 with A320neo frames that could be used at short runway or hot and high airports.
 
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GE9X
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:13 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:12 pm

Antaras wrote:
Let's talk a bit about the impact of this pandemic to the carriers.

Do anyone think that carriers which operate a large number of leased airframes damaged the most? As comparisons to the carriers which mostly operate their own airframes, mostly-leased carriers have to spend some more millions of dollar to lease the aircraft. Now I think that this pandemic will hurt carriers which follow the risky "sale and lease back" strategy.

I am worried about Bamboo Airways. It operates a full leased fleet including a bunch of neos as well as 3 789s. As I know that the cost to least the neos and the Dreamliners is very expensive, I think that it would be a troublesome time for QH.


All airlines are severely damaged, but those who lease aircraft will not survive to the end of this week unless they have humongous amounts of cash on hand. And generally speaking, airlines who lease are not exactly the types of airlines to hoard liquidity... One possibility to avert some of that, we might see the lessors defer payments, which might save some airlines in the short term, and it's probably better that way for lessors as well because otherwise they'll start losing all their clients one after the other and be stuck with hundreds (or more likely thousands) of aircraft to peddle once this is all over.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2932
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Coronavirus relief flights

Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:13 pm

sovietjet wrote:
I know there is a thread already about the impact to aviation due to COVID-19, but this thread is about the relief flights ONLY. Examples are the Samaritan's purse DC-8 flights to Italy or Russia sending Il-76s with supplies to Italy, and etc. What other relief flights have there been to Italy and Europe as a whole? Anything from within the EU, or the USA? It would be interesting if we can tally them up here. And what about any relief flights to China, Iran or the USA?


Azerbaijan Airlines sent a 787-8 from Atyrau, Kazakhstan, to Dallas/Fort Worth yesterday.

Image
 
abcgogo
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:57 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:20 pm

Didn't the various governments around the world tell lenders to defer collecting payments from people/companies until the crisis has passed ? Then shouldn't that be enough to buy these airlines some time ? I wonder how tight margin the aviation business is, that even a one month partial shutdown is enough to bring down so many airlines. It is sad, but I hope new airlines emerge to take their place and the employees who lost/will-lose their jobs get re-employed ASAP.
 
goosebayguy
Posts: 707
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:12 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:03 pm

There is a story in todays Sunday Times that BA are trying to avoid help because by doing so Virgin would not be able to access funding.
Last edited by goosebayguy on Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
PANAMsterdam
Posts: 268
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:45 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:07 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Emirates seems to have changed its decision a little.

It will continue to fly to a few countries (13 as of now) as long as borders are open.

It is a fluid situation.

https://twitter.com/emirates/status/1241755720414105600



Wow. Does anyone have a parking garage with the capacity for 115 A380's?
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
santi319
Posts: 1034
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:00 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:

Also, Starlux in Taiwan. In the USA, I suspect that Frontier (all leased---the remaining owned frames were sold and leased back near the end of 2018), Sun Country (all leased), and American (highly in debt) are in big trouble. In Mexico, this could spell the end for Interjet, and Volaris may be waiting to pick at the carcass. I wouldn't be surprised if B6, with a low net debt load, attempted to buy NK, as the ULCC market is probably most vulnerable in the USA and the market includes G4 (which has low operations costs and is also vertically integrated), F9 (Frontier as mentioned prior), SY (Sun Country as mentioned prior) and NK (Spirit, which is about half-owned, half-leased). If you see a move by B6 to acquire NK, which may be in the realm of $850M to $950M (current market cap of NK is about $595M), it would probably be to kill NK and re-fleet B6 by adding on more A320 family planes, plus the costs to reconfigure them to the B6 standard, which in turn would right capacity in the USA and also provide B6 with A320neo frames that could be used at short runway or hot and high airports.

Going by B6 financials if anybody is buying would be NK..
 
Airlinerdude
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:07 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:04 pm

VSMUT wrote:
ghdc10 wrote:
VSMUT wrote:

Does it really matter where they park them at this point? They can just fill up the stands and block a runway at DXB. It's not like anybody is going to need the capacity.


Emirates has more than 250 widebody birds out there (excluding its skycargo operation) They cannot all come to roost at DXB in adition to fly dubai aircraft. So yes, it does matter. There are 173 stands at DXB which is clearly not enough considering flydubai has 54 aircraft


There is plenty of space. Just stuff them in on some blocked taxiways, aprons, a blocked runway, some of the gates etc. When it is just storage and not day to day operations, you can park them up much closer than normally. DXB has more than enough space to do that, should they decide to.


This poster was ahead of his time...

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=576201#25

Funny but unfortunate how we're seeing such a reality take place.
 
Tankdiver
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:07 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:14 pm

Antaras wrote:
I am worried about Bamboo Airways. It operates a full leased fleet including a bunch of neos as well as 3 789s. As I know that the cost to least the neos and the Dreamliners is very expensive, I think that it would be a troublesome time for QH.


Really bad luck for Bamboo. Some people I know from the inside said they might sink after this. They are not in a good situation like that of VN and VJ. They made huge fanfare for their launch and then was in such a big hurry to get their B787 from the Hainan NTU 787's. They might be better off had they waited for their turn to take the delivery of these aircraft a year from now, but nobody could have predicted this. That's why I say bad luck for them.
 
N766UA
Posts: 8339
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:31 pm

santi319 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:

Also, Starlux in Taiwan. In the USA, I suspect that Frontier (all leased---the remaining owned frames were sold and leased back near the end of 2018), Sun Country (all leased), and American (highly in debt) are in big trouble. In Mexico, this could spell the end for Interjet, and Volaris may be waiting to pick at the carcass. I wouldn't be surprised if B6, with a low net debt load, attempted to buy NK, as the ULCC market is probably most vulnerable in the USA and the market includes G4 (which has low operations costs and is also vertically integrated), F9 (Frontier as mentioned prior), SY (Sun Country as mentioned prior) and NK (Spirit, which is about half-owned, half-leased). If you see a move by B6 to acquire NK, which may be in the realm of $850M to $950M (current market cap of NK is about $595M), it would probably be to kill NK and re-fleet B6 by adding on more A320 family planes, plus the costs to reconfigure them to the B6 standard, which in turn would right capacity in the USA and also provide B6 with A320neo frames that could be used at short runway or hot and high airports.

Going by B6 financials if anybody is buying would be NK..


LOL who the hell is buying ANYONE? "My house is on fire! Quick, build a new porch!"

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