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kimimm19
Posts: 429
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:32 pm

chepos wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
B777LRF wrote:
The Swiss government have allegedly refused to bail out Swiss, on the grounds it's a German owned carrier. They argue Swiss have made billions over the years which, instead of being used to bolster the airline, have been funnelled to Germany and spent propping up other loss making entities in the corporation. The further argument is that Swiss should be allowed to go bankrupt, and then bought for dimes on the dollar by Swiss entities. Which is the capitalism is supposed to work, to be honest, rather than this "privatised profits, socialised losses" approach company management seem to adopt.

It rather surprises me the UK government does not adopt the same approach, and demand a split of IAG as a condition for bailing out BA. The the Irish can bail out Aer Lingus and the Spanish the same with Iberia, Vueling and Air Europa.


I understand their point but they certainly don’t want to lose Swiss.

They gave up on SR........ at one point the epitome of Swiss excellence. With a global network, focused on Switzerland.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think this is how the Swiss public generally feels. Lufthansa has been trying to chip away at the status of LX for years in order to bolster LH and their profitability and prestige.
 
mxaxai
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:57 pm

davidjohnson6 wrote:
One should not expect to see the equivalent of the 2010 Icelandic volcano when the skies really did empty...

Many of the short haul cuts in Europe are only taking effect tomorrow. But yes, there will still be some traffic around. I'm especially surprised how active the LCC's all still are.
 
enplaned
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:01 pm

So far it seems the US carriers are coming up short in their lobbying for large cash grants:

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/majo ... 10480.html
 
mxaxai
Posts: 1904
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:10 pm

kimimm19 wrote:
I think this is how the Swiss public generally feels. Lufthansa has been trying to chip away at the status of LX for years in order to bolster LH and their profitability and prestige.

Just a brief reminder that Swissair was grounded due to their inability to pay for fuel. Swiss then continued to lose money for several more years until it was bought by LH. We can argue prestige all day long but the reality is that small national airlines can't survive in today's - or rather prior to last week's - unregulated market.
 
dangle
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:10 pm

Here's a pretty in-depth article from Nikkei discussing the drop-off in load factors among Asian carriers, this figure stands out:

Image

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Industry-in-focus/Asian-airlines-fly-more-vacant-planes-as-coronavirus-hits-demand
 
fly4ever78
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:15 pm

While I agree, there needs to be certain conditions attached to any aid given to airlines; I think the people saying "just let the free market act" are grossly underestimating the impact that would happen to the US if all three major airlines stopped operating completely. You would not get any mail, you would not get transplant organs, you would not get ventilators, masks, food supplies. IMO if they don't at least allow liquidity to keep the airlines operating at a reduced capacity, I think just stopping all operations would be prudent. Just let the free market work right?!
 
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ADent
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:31 pm

wexfordflyer wrote:

A lot of them are flying with very little, or almost no, passengers


My buddy works ramp locally and said they had a flight DEN-ATL with one bag loaded.
 
SRGVA67
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:47 pm

B777LRF wrote:
The Swiss government have allegedly refused to bail out Swiss, on the grounds it's a German owned carrier. They argue Swiss have made billions over the years which, instead of being used to bolster the airline, have been funnelled to Germany and spent propping up other loss making entities in the corporation. The further argument is that Swiss should be allowed to go bankrupt, and then bought for dimes on the dollar by Swiss entities. Which is the capitalism is supposed to work, to be honest, rather than this "privatised profits, socialised losses" approach company management seem to adopt.

It rather surprises me the UK government does not adopt the same approach, and demand a split of IAG as a condition for bailing out BA. The the Irish can bail out Aer Lingus and the Spanish the same with Iberia, Vueling and Air Europa.

What's your source thatA bail-out of Swiss by the Swiss government was refused ? The subject has been discussed in the press and on social media, but to my knowledge our government has not issued a statement yet, whether positive or negative. The general opinion, and my own is that a German owned company, even based in Switzerland should not be bailed out by the Swiss government and our own enterprises and SME should be rescued first., I can also imagine if the German government bails out LH,it will not be to save 3 companies based abroad. namely LX, OS and SN.
 
LJ
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:10 pm

ghdc10 wrote:
Breathe wrote:



This is bad news for any travelers from countries not conducting repatriation flights. A major loss of connectivity around the world. Does anyone know where EK will park its fleet? I can imagine DWC is able to take a few.


I saw EK moving a few 777s to DWC this evening. They all had flightnumbers in the 2xxx range. At present I expect these three to go to DWC.

https://www.flightradar24.com/UAE2569/244035d3
https://www.flightradar24.com/UAE2567/2440732b
https://www.flightradar24.com/UAE2580/24413415
Last edited by LJ on Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:12 pm

goosebayguy wrote:
There is a story in todays Sunday Times that BA are trying to avoid help because by doing so Virgin would not be able to access funding.


A link would be nice.

I don't really see how the two are mutually exclusive. Just because BA doesn't accept or request Government assistance shouldn't make any difference to whether or not VS needs or accepts same. They are two completely separate companies.
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atcsundevil
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:43 pm

If you'd like to discuss moderation, then please do so in the Site Related Forum. This thread is not the only thread being used for discussion — it is a running updates thread. As a side note, we will allow for more splintering of discussions, so not all discussion needs to occur in this thread. We do realize that this thread is too wide-ranging for people to keep up.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
bananaboy
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:54 pm

Two Wamos Air 747-400's are on their way to Hawaii as rescue flights to bring people back to Europe, including cruise passengers.
Both will depart back to Europe on 23rd. One will operate via YVR to LGW. The other is operating to FRA. I'm hearing that there will be less pax on the FRA flight and a fuel stop is not noted so could be operating non-stop.
Not sure if the fights from MAD will need a fuel stop as presumably, they're operating out empty.
All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
 
tax1k
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:02 pm

mxaxai wrote:
As mentioned in the Boeing financials thread, and probably best discussed there, Boeing is suspending dividends and CEO Calhoun as well as Board Chairman Kellner will not be paid for their work this year.
18 employees in Seattle have tested positive for the virus.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... -industry/



Not to be (overly) cynical, but this zero pay business for CEOs goes only so far. My guess is that a number of them have housing, transportation and all sorts of personal arrangements attended to at company expense. And for all we know they can sell a bunch of their portfolio at a huge loss and get a tax refund. So it’s impressive symbolically but I’m not entirely sure what it’s supposed to accomplish.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:04 pm

I think the govt is realizing that even with a printing press, they can't afford to keep paying everyone who asks for money. The airlines were the first to ask - that would be a precedent every other impacted industry would ask for. The best hope is that your employer keeps you on their health insurance, and you get your check from the Govt like every one else. There are plenty of on demand charters and air freight companies who can move time critical things.
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    zkeoj
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    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:06 pm

    SRGVA67 wrote:
    B777LRF wrote:
    The Swiss government have allegedly refused to bail out Swiss, on the grounds it's a German owned carrier. They argue Swiss have made billions over the years which, instead of being used to bolster the airline, have been funnelled to Germany and spent propping up other loss making entities in the corporation. The further argument is that Swiss should be allowed to go bankrupt, and then bought for dimes on the dollar by Swiss entities. Which is the capitalism is supposed to work, to be honest, rather than this "privatised profits, socialised losses" approach company management seem to adopt.

    It rather surprises me the UK government does not adopt the same approach, and demand a split of IAG as a condition for bailing out BA. The the Irish can bail out Aer Lingus and the Spanish the same with Iberia, Vueling and Air Europa.

    What's your source thatA bail-out of Swiss by the Swiss government was refused ? The subject has been discussed in the press and on social media, but to my knowledge our government has not issued a statement yet, whether positive or negative. The general opinion, and my own is that a German owned company, even based in Switzerland should not be bailed out by the Swiss government and our own enterprises and SME should be rescued first., I can also imagine if the German government bails out LH,it will not be to save 3 companies based abroad. namely LX, OS and SN.


    LH can/will survive without LX, but Switzerland would have no airline (of substance) without LX. The Swiss government needs to be prudent to decide on the wider implications, i.e. access to/from the country, jobs (the vast majority of LX employees are Swiss nationals), etc. Without LH they wouldn't the LX we have today. It just isn't as black and white....
     
    rdt757
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    HNL cruise ship pax evac flights 23 March

    Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:41 pm

    My company Ground Ops on HNL are being told tomorrow (23 March) there will be 8-10 pax flights from the cargo ramp operating as evac flights for 2 cruises ships that came into port. I understand the cargo operations will be disrupted due to very limited ramp space. Can anyone confirm or provide additional information?
     
    Kilopond
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    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:50 pm

    Vasu wrote:
    [...]would we be able to transit through FRA en route?[...]


    The EU travel ban does NOT include the UK and the EFTA countries. As far as your schedule is concerned: absolutely nobody can know for sure what will actually operate in two weeks from now, not even the airlines themselves.
     
    NYCVIE
    Posts: 284
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    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:55 pm

    zkeoj wrote:
    SRGVA67 wrote:
    B777LRF wrote:
    The Swiss government have allegedly refused to bail out Swiss, on the grounds it's a German owned carrier. They argue Swiss have made billions over the years which, instead of being used to bolster the airline, have been funnelled to Germany and spent propping up other loss making entities in the corporation. The further argument is that Swiss should be allowed to go bankrupt, and then bought for dimes on the dollar by Swiss entities. Which is the capitalism is supposed to work, to be honest, rather than this "privatised profits, socialised losses" approach company management seem to adopt.

    It rather surprises me the UK government does not adopt the same approach, and demand a split of IAG as a condition for bailing out BA. The the Irish can bail out Aer Lingus and the Spanish the same with Iberia, Vueling and Air Europa.

    What's your source thatA bail-out of Swiss by the Swiss government was refused ? The subject has been discussed in the press and on social media, but to my knowledge our government has not issued a statement yet, whether positive or negative. The general opinion, and my own is that a German owned company, even based in Switzerland should not be bailed out by the Swiss government and our own enterprises and SME should be rescued first., I can also imagine if the German government bails out LH,it will not be to save 3 companies based abroad. namely LX, OS and SN.


    LH can/will survive without LX, but Switzerland would have no airline (of substance) without LX. The Swiss government needs to be prudent to decide on the wider implications, i.e. access to/from the country, jobs (the vast majority of LX employees are Swiss nationals), etc. Without LH they wouldn't the LX we have today. It just isn't as black and white....


    It's definitely not black and white but there's also something to be said for Swiss govt's hesitation to provide LX (LH) with bailout money without securing provisions that the money would only be used for LX related expenses. Like a poster said above, why would the Swiss (or Austrian or Belgian) government provide LH with money they could use to prop up LH?

    Similarly if the German government bails out LH, I would imagine most taxpayers would not be happy to see that money go towards foreign carriers that provide minimal benefits to Germany.
     
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    Aesma
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    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:58 pm

    abcgogo wrote:
    Didn't the various governments around the world tell lenders to defer collecting payments from people/companies until the crisis has passed ? Then shouldn't that be enough to buy these airlines some time ? I wonder how tight margin the aviation business is, that even a one month partial shutdown is enough to bring down so many airlines. It is sad, but I hope new airlines emerge to take their place and the employees who lost/will-lose their jobs get re-employed ASAP.


    There is no coordination from the various governments/entities around the world.

    And this isn't a one month partial shutdown. Profitable China flights have started to be cut in January, and no return to normal is expected for at least 6 months.
    New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
     
    xwb777
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    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:58 pm

    Just in: The UAE to suspend all international flights for a period of two weeks. The suspension of flights will get into effect within 48 hours.
     
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    chepos
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    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:03 pm

    xwb777 wrote:
    Just in: The UAE to suspend all international flights for a period of two weeks. The suspension of flights will get into effect within 48 hours.

    So is EK and EY going to suspend flying for 2 weeks?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Fly the Flag!!!!
     
    tonytifao
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    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:15 pm

    Why aren’t more flights in the US being canceled? I was looking tomorrows EWR-MCO flights, 9 daily frequencies and flights with 2-5% old factor. Why aren’t we making this 3 flights a day???
     
    CaliAtenza
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    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:16 pm

    Will US domestic passenger flights be grounded?
     
    xwb777
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    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:48 pm

    chepos wrote:
    xwb777 wrote:
    Just in: The UAE to suspend all international flights for a period of two weeks. The suspension of flights will get into effect within 48 hours.

    So is EK and EY going to suspend flying for 2 weeks?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Yes. In addition to Air Arabia and Flydubai
     
    Aceskywalker
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    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:49 pm

    CaliAtenza wrote:
    Will US domestic passenger flights be grounded?


    I doubt it. That is a lever that everyone who can pull it is highly reluctant to do so. Frequencies and routes will get downgauged and eventually cut as demand will continue to crater.
     
    DiamondFlyer
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    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:29 am

    CaliAtenza wrote:
    Will US domestic passenger flights be grounded?


    Because at the end of the day, no one is willing to say, we need to stop this now. Airlines don't want to be the first one to flinch (even though they're bleeding cash). The government wants to avoid the panic that a total domestic flight shutdown may cause. So now, we do nothing, and continue to allow it to spread around and around via aluminum tubing.
    From my cold, dead hands
     
    davidjohnson6
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    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:34 am

    Who can press the 'nationwide full ground stop' button ? Only Trump or can other officials do it without having to gain Trump's permission as well ?
    Was it Bush who ordered this for 9/11 or was it somebody else ?
     
    DiamondFlyer
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    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:40 am

    davidjohnson6 wrote:
    Who can press the 'nationwide full ground stop' button ? Only Trump or can other officials do it without having to gain Trump's permission as well ?
    Was it Bush who ordered this for 9/11 or was it somebody else ?


    Who knows, but an organized shut down is likely to end better than a forced shutdown when 3 or 4 ARTCC's go down at the same time and cause the shutdown.
    From my cold, dead hands
     
    Arion640
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    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:42 am

    davidjohnson6 wrote:
    Who can press the 'nationwide full ground stop' button ? Only Trump or can other officials do it without having to gain Trump's permission as well ?
    Was it Bush who ordered this for 9/11 or was it somebody else ?


    Wasn’t bush, it was that chap from the FAA. Can’t remember his name. He played himself in the flight 93 film.
     
    smokeybandit
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    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:43 am

    DiamondFlyer wrote:
    CaliAtenza wrote:
    Will US domestic passenger flights be grounded?


    Because at the end of the day, no one is willing to say, we need to stop this now. Airlines don't want to be the first one to flinch (even though they're bleeding cash). The government wants to avoid the panic that a total domestic flight shutdown may cause. So now, we do nothing, and continue to allow it to spread around and around via aluminum tubing.


    US airlines seem to be content flying empty flights than shutting things down.
     
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    enilria
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    FAA Extends Slot Usage Waivers to October

    Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:48 am

    Something tells me that slots may not even all be used when this expires.

    >>>The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) said Sunday it has tentatively decided to extend temporarily waivers of minimum flight requirements at U.S. airports through Oct. 24 to help airlines facing a steep decline in travel demand due to the coronavirus.

    https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/03 ... ights.html
     
    MIflyer12
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    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:49 am

    fly4ever78 wrote:
    While I agree, there needs to be certain conditions attached to any aid given to airlines; I think the people saying "just let the free market act" are grossly underestimating the impact that would happen to the US if all three major airlines stopped operating completely.


    Filing Ch 11 bankruptcy doesn't mean the end of ops. Have you reviewed the history of U.S. carrier Ch 11 and Ch 7 (liquidation) filings? UA operated under bankruptcy protection for nearly 39 months. Chapter 11 is the established procedure and law for restructuring, not 'Give us $25 Billion in gifts and $25 Billion in loans and we'll maintain employment levels for five full months.'
     
    Flaps
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    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:57 am

    smokeybandit wrote:
    DiamondFlyer wrote:
    CaliAtenza wrote:
    Will US domestic passenger flights be grounded?


    Because at the end of the day, no one is willing to say, we need to stop this now. Airlines don't want to be the first one to flinch (even though they're bleeding cash). The government wants to avoid the panic that a total domestic flight shutdown may cause. So now, we do nothing, and continue to allow it to spread around and around via aluminum tubing.


    US airlines seem to be content flying empty flights than shutting things down.


    That's simply not correct. Flights are being cut drastically. It's a complex process and the situation is changing faster than airlines can respond. For example, a flight that may have been booked for 170 last week, on day of departure today still shows 55 booked. After no-shows there may be only 15-20 people on the flight. The airlines are trying to get their aircraft and crews to where they want them as they wind down operations. There is also cargo demand to factor in. Another example would be an airline determines that when a flight hits 30% or less load factor they will cancel. Because people are not canceling and simply no showing, flights that show above 30% may depart with 10%. It's taking some time to nail down the trends and the actual percentages. I have spent the last 6 days doing exactly that. You will see those reductions starting to hit in the beginning to middle of the week.

    It is an upfront expense now but the payoff will be in winding down operations with planes and crews where they are supposed to be and flights and aircraft that may be needed for cargo identified and operated where they need to operate. This saves a lot of logistical expense and allows for winding down operations in such a way that allows for an efficient restart of operations as needed. Some extra expense now for significant savings later.
     
    mxaxai
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    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:58 am

    A Boeing employee has passed away today after being infected with the virus. https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... ett-plant/

    On the one hand, of course there will always be employees who fall seriously ill or die as employees of such large companies; it's a simple matter of statistics. On the other hand, and depending on how the situation develops, there may be a significant permanent loss of knowledge and manpower as more workers die or receive permanent lung damage. The virus affects older people more than younger ones but nobody is invulnerable and there are plenty of workers aged 50 to 65.
     
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    Antaras
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    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:59 am

    Tankdiver wrote:
    Antaras wrote:
    I am worried about Bamboo Airways. It operates a full leased fleet including a bunch of neos as well as 3 789s. As I know that the cost to lease the neos and the Dreamliners is very expensive, I think that it would be a troublesome time for QH.


    Really bad luck for Bamboo. Some people I know from the inside said they might sink after this. They are not in a good situation like that of VN and VJ. They made huge fanfare for their launch and then was in such a big hurry to get their B787 from the Hainan NTU 787's. They might be better off had they waited for their turn to take the delivery of these aircraft a year from now, but nobody could have predicted this. That's why I say bad luck for them.


    Both high-positioned VN and VJ, or even some giants such as EK could sink after this.
    Besides Bamboo, another newbie is Starlux may survive not-over-this-weekend as it suspended all of its operation with 3-leased A321neo.
    Let's hope that FLC (Bamboo's owner) has enough cash to save its newly-bornt children after this.
    Yesterday I saw all of their Frebird-wet leased A320s returning to Turkey; and it is not surprise if QH's fleet (as well as 99% of other carriers) having a overcapacity fleet.

    God bless the newbies, especially QH and JX for their bad timing.
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    ZaphodHarkonnen
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    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:18 am

    NZ going to Level 4 on our COVID19 alert list. Which means that most passenger flights will end for at least the next 4 weeks. Only cargo and essential personnel to fly.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/412 ... n-23-march

    Mar 23, 2020 1:54 PM
    RNZ Live
    After 48 hours, air travel will only be for essential services and freight.
     
    CHOWahoo
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    Re: FAA Extends Slot Usage Waivers to October

    Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:24 am

    Carriers will be very reluctant to add back capacity with the threat of a second wave looming. That assumes they even have the financial capacity at that point to build back in any meaningful way.
     
    AngMoh
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    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:36 am

    Clackers wrote:
    How are Singapore Airlines coping with this virus?
    Does anyone have updated route cancellations for SQ?


    SQ will stop flying to Europe from 1 April till 1st May. People residing in Europe and registered with the Singapore embassy have received an email on Friday afternoon telling them to make their way back to Singapore by 31 March or prepare to stay until it gets better. There is a special web site for Singapore residents to request a seat with priority for students.

    If they stop flying to Europe I expect the stoppage will be much wider. I have heard rumours to that extent but no evidence.
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    tphuang
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    Re: FAA Extends Slot Usage Waivers to October

    Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:41 am

    I would be surprised if JFK needs slot coming out of this.
     
    zkeoj
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    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:03 am

    NYCVIE wrote:
    zkeoj wrote:
    SRGVA67 wrote:
    What's your source thatA bail-out of Swiss by the Swiss government was refused ? The subject has been discussed in the press and on social media, but to my knowledge our government has not issued a statement yet, whether positive or negative. The general opinion, and my own is that a German owned company, even based in Switzerland should not be bailed out by the Swiss government and our own enterprises and SME should be rescued first., I can also imagine if the German government bails out LH,it will not be to save 3 companies based abroad. namely LX, OS and SN.


    LH can/will survive without LX, but Switzerland would have no airline (of substance) without LX. The Swiss government needs to be prudent to decide on the wider implications, i.e. access to/from the country, jobs (the vast majority of LX employees are Swiss nationals), etc. Without LH they wouldn't the LX we have today. It just isn't as black and white....


    It's definitely not black and white but there's also something to be said for Swiss govt's hesitation to provide LX (LH) with bailout money without securing provisions that the money would only be used for LX related expenses. Like a poster said above, why would the Swiss (or Austrian or Belgian) government provide LH with money they could use to prop up LH?

    Similarly if the German government bails out LH, I would imagine most taxpayers would not be happy to see that money go towards foreign carriers that provide minimal benefits to Germany.


    100% agree with this one: If there is governmental help, it should be for LX only, and not the wider LH group. I am totally with you there...
     
    716131
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    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:08 am

    dangle wrote:
    Here's a pretty in-depth article from Nikkei discussing the drop-off in load factors among Asian carriers, this figure stands out:

    Image

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Industry-in-focus/Asian-airlines-fly-more-vacant-planes-as-coronavirus-hits-demand

    I can tell you that 2020 is the worst year in aviation.
    If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
     
    fly4ever78
    Posts: 78
    Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:17 pm

    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:14 am

    MIflyer12 wrote:
    fly4ever78 wrote:
    While I agree, there needs to be certain conditions attached to any aid given to airlines; I think the people saying "just let the free market act" are grossly underestimating the impact that would happen to the US if all three major airlines stopped operating completely.


    Filing Ch 11 bankruptcy doesn't mean the end of ops. Have you reviewed the history of U.S. carrier Ch 11 and Ch 7 (liquidation) filings? UA operated under bankruptcy protection for nearly 39 months. Chapter 11 is the established procedure and law for restructuring, not 'Give us $25 Billion in gifts and $25 Billion in loans and we'll maintain employment levels for five full months.'


    I'm personally familiar with it, as is my family. After our pay was cut 50% and our retirement was liquidated. Its a great way to trample on the employees that help build your company and offload the debt onto others. Are YOU familiar with where all that underfunded retirement obligation went? Onto the PBCG... (YOU as the taxpayer).
     
    umichman
    Posts: 141
    Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:42 am

    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:15 am

    smokeybandit wrote:

    US airlines seem to be more content flying empty flights than shutting things down.


    Not anymore. Massive last minute cancellations are going on now. UA cancelled 46% of flights today. Basically started on Saturday and is continuing forward.

    https://flightaware.com/live/cancelled/

    Seems they are all following Southwest strategy announced a couple days ago -- https://www.fox5dc.com/news/southwest-t ... ntil-april
     
    AngMoh
    Posts: 1051
    Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:03 am

    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:27 am

    AngMoh wrote:
    SQ will stop flying to Europe from 1 April till 1st May. People residing in Europe and registered with the Singapore embassy have received an email on Friday afternoon telling them to make their way back to Singapore by 31 March or prepare to stay until it gets better. There is a special web site for Singapore residents to request a seat with priority for students.

    If they stop flying to Europe I expect the stoppage will be much wider. I have heard rumours to that extent but no evidence.


    SIA group just announced major shutdown:

    https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/bu ... s-12566248

    Emirates has partially reversed its decision to stop flying to provide basic connectivity for repatriation of residents of certain countries.

    https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/bu ... 082018_cna
    Last edited by AngMoh on Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
    727 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739/ER 742 743 744/M 752 753 762 772 77E 773 77W 788 A300 A310 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A345 A346 A359 A35K A388 DC-9 DC-10 MD11 MD81 MD82 MD87 F70 ERJ145 E170 E175 E190 E195 ATR72 Q400 CRJ200 CRJ700 CRJ900 BAE146 RJ85
     
    ShamrockBoi330
    Posts: 353
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    Re: HNL cruise ship pax evac flights 23 March

    Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:56 am

    rdt757 wrote:
    My company Ground Ops on HNL are being told tomorrow (23 March) there will be 8-10 pax flights from the cargo ramp operating as evac flights for 2 cruises ships that came into port. I understand the cargo operations will be disrupted due to very limited ramp space. Can anyone confirm or provide additional information?


    Norwegian Jewel docked in Honolulu today after being turned away from Tahiti and Fiji (closed borders, no infections on ship!), fueling up in American Samoa before being told they could head to Hawaii. Originally no one was to disembark until mainland but late before they arrived in port, they got permission to disembark passengers. Ship developed engine issues in recent days too which probably led to the permission being granted. They left Sydney February 22nd I think. Could this be one?
    Last edited by ShamrockBoi330 on Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
     
    CRJ5000
    Posts: 146
    Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:06 pm

    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:57 am

    Interesting article breaking down different airlines viability based off current financial situation. Not sure if it has been posted in the previous 32 pages. Don’t remember seeing it though. AA doesn’t look pretty.

    https://leehamnews.com/2020/03/16/us-ca ... UrOmgB3Pq4
     
    User avatar
    Antaras
    Posts: 833
    Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:18 am

    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:38 am

    Tankdiver wrote:
    Antaras wrote:
    I am worried about Bamboo Airways. It operates a full leased fleet including a bunch of neos as well as 3 789s. As I know that the cost to least the neos and the Dreamliners is very expensive, I think that it would be a troublesome time for QH.


    Really bad luck for Bamboo. Some people I know from the inside said they might sink after this. They are not in a good situation like that of VN and VJ. They made huge fanfare for their launch and then was in such a big hurry to get their B787 from the Hainan NTU 787's. They might be better off had they waited for their turn to take the delivery of these aircraft a year from now, but nobody could have predicted this. That's why I say bad luck for them.


    In the other hand I think that the 789s are saving QH. I saw QH cancelled a number of HAN-SGN flights and combined passengers on those flight to a flights using 789s. I saw this "flight combination" strategy is used a lot by Vietnamese carriers. as operates a full big plane flight is much cheaper than multiples not-fulfilled A320s flights.
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    Jgsushi
    Posts: 46
    Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 4:18 pm

    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:44 am

    Does anyone have a collection of photos of parked/grounded fleets? If so please link em!!
    Thanks, all.
    Lmao the A220's engines (PW1500G) at low thrust levels sound like Chewbacca
     
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    chepos
    Posts: 7273
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    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:54 am

    Jgsushi wrote:
    Does anyone have a collection of photos of parked/grounded fleets? If so please link em!!
    Thanks, all.

    There is an ongoing thread with selected pics in Polls and Preferences page (used to be in the civil aviation page).


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Fly the Flag!!!!
     
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    Antaras
    Posts: 833
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    Re: Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

    Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:09 am

    chepos wrote:
    Jgsushi wrote:
    Does anyone have a collection of photos of parked/grounded fleets? If so please link em!!
    Thanks, all.

    There is an ongoing thread with selected pics in Polls and Preferences page (used to be in the civil aviation page).


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


    This one
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