Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

OptimusPrime315 · Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:47 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
OptimusPrime315 wrote:
If anything being a charter and not connecting any passengers in Japan and if you really need a layover to refuel, why not go to HNL then to SLC? Tailwinds?

Check Great Circle Mapper distances. MNL-NRT-SLC is noticeably shorter than MNL-HNL-SLC.

Hadn’t looked at that. True point. But still coming back to why didn’t they just stay in the air over Tokyo on the way down since they were empty and the A359/77E/77L continue flying and make it a non-stop on the way back?

ck8msp · Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:24 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
The administration is behind the curve on much of this. Air travel was and is an essential service. We have stranded fellow citizens in various parts of the world who need repatriation. A competent WH would be arranging this, muscling foreign governments to transit our citizens to airports, allow a plane(s) to land and pick them up. Normally citizens are charged for this service. Flights within the US need to be maintained, but airlines need to cooperate so that there are just enough planes flying, probably at 50% LF (some social distancing), prices maybe a little higher than normal. ATC with these reduced flights can reduce number of controllers to a minimum. Obviously slot usage for the duration should reflect we are in an emergency situation. Often times an active duty general is assigned to honcho this, someone with high personal power and authority. Such a person backs up persons actually doing the job, and prevents others from disruptive agendas.

Actually, it is you behind the curve.

The State Department stated nearly three weeks ago now, that foreign travel was NOT recommended, and that you could find yourself trapped overseas without possibility of rescue. Yet people still decided to get on cruises, go to Spring Break in Cancun, Spring Break church missions to Peru, etc. At some point, you are responsible for your own safety and security. You are free to make the choice to go, but you were also free to make the choice of stay or return.

I was stunned to hear that friends actually planned travel in the early days of the outbreak thinking, "what a great time to go to the beaches." I am in Minnesota and I get the desire to score a deal and head south after a long winter, but it clearly backfired. Also, most of these peoples trip interruption insurance or evacuation insurance is void as the traveled despite the warnings.

I think they assumed that these flights mostly to Latin America were safe. And to a certain extent they were the last to be cancelled, but still.

TUGMASTER · Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:26 pm

OptimusPrime315 wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
OptimusPrime315 wrote:
If anything being a charter and not connecting any passengers in Japan and if you really need a layover to refuel, why not go to HNL then to SLC? Tailwinds?

Check Great Circle Mapper distances. MNL-NRT-SLC is noticeably shorter than MNL-HNL-SLC.

Hadn’t looked at that. True point. But still coming back to why didn’t they just stay in the air over Tokyo on the way down since they were empty and the A359/77E/77L continue flying and make it a non-stop on the way back?

Crew Swap...

factsonly · Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:33 pm

And something positive for a change !!

KLM's first flight to Shanghai PVG since January 2020 .......just departed AMS:

- KL895 AMS-PVG B74M PH-BFT 23rd March 2020

- https://www.flightradar24.com/KLM895/2442749f

Plane Holland · Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:53 pm

factsonly wrote:
And something positive for a change !!

KLM's first flight to Shanghai PVG since January 2020 .......just departed AMS:

- KL895 AMS-PVG B74M PH-BFT 23rd March 2020

- https://www.flightradar24.com/KLM895/2442749f

Nice , I hope it's freight only.

Also British Airways 81 enroute to Accra now returning to London.

ltbewr · Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:00 pm

I live under a major flight path about 15 miles north of EWR, and about 5 miles west of Teterboro airport and when I take a walk outside (with proper social distancing) around 6-7 PM the skies since Saturday have gotten a lot quieter as fewer aircraft are being operated. It is a bit eerie.

SAS A340 · Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:35 pm

11 Norwegian 787 parked at Sola along with 16 737,s.....

atcsundevil · Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:12 pm

Just so everyone is clear...as mentioned before, we are allowing more splinter threads away from this general discussion. We would like for it to be limited to more important news — airlines shutting down operations, for example. We don't want the forum cluttered with a hundred new topics, because that's equally difficult to sift through, but we agree that separate topics for big news is warranted.

Please get back on topic here. This thread is for general updates and discussion of big and small aviation impacts. Discussion as to how the forum is being organized belongs in the Site Related Forum, as previously mentioned. This isn't the place for that.

✈️ atcsundevil

sailsail · Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:39 pm

asuflyer wrote:
OS is doing pax rescue flights from CUN, MEX, PUJ, HAV and IAD and picking up supplies for Austria in XMN.

https://twitter.com/lufthansaNews/statu ... 9538436097

Interesting. Did these carriers already have this procedure in their ops manuals or did they revise them to allow cargo in the passenger cabin? Or did they just do it anyway as it’s a world wide emergency? My carrier does not allow this yet and is one of the big three.

bhxdtw · Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:46 pm

Hey guys! Just noticed a DL A350 leaving Detroit for Dublin, flight number 8834. I'm assuming that's a Covid rescue flight?

capitalflyer · Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:29 pm

Listening to DCA tower. Tower asks how many people on board. Pilot says 5. Then says their turnaround flight is expecting only 2 passengers. Whoa...

BenflysDTW · Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:00 pm

bhxdtw wrote:
Hey guys! Just noticed a DL A350 leaving Detroit for Dublin, flight number 8834. I'm assuming that's a Covid rescue flight?

Flight number suggests a military charter.

AMP44 · Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:23 pm

PTY with all of CM's aircraft grounded.

AAJFKLHR777 · Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:35 pm

Apparently effective tomorrow March 24th 2020 - JFK Airport will be consolidating terminals and reducing operating hours as well. This is due to TSA staffing levels due to the COVID-19 virus.

Terminal 1 - Security Checkpoint will close at 2000 hours.
Terminal 2 - Operations will consolidate to Terminal 4
Terminal 4 - will remain open and staffed 24/7.
Terminal 5 - Security Checkpoint will close at 2000 hours.
Terminal 7 - Operations will consolidate into terminal 8

So effectively Terminals 2 and 7 will be closing as the TSA does not have the manpower to staff checkpoints and bagrooms.

It's going be interesting over the next few weeks.

Be safe everyone.

mark787 · Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:58 pm

with the low amount of flights, it makes sense to consolidate operations. Likewise, I would suspect that it would also cut costs as the PA probably wouldn't have to keep sanitizing the closed terminals.

bananaboy · Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:17 pm

cathay747 wrote:
bananaboy wrote:
bananaboy wrote:

I know a little about two of them. WAMOS Air have 2 x 747s heading from Madrid to HNL. One will head to FRA (possibly non-stop) as is showing a lighter load. The other will route through Vancouver to London Gatwick.

Edit. Just reading that there'll be another flight going to Sydney. Unfortunately the New Zealand citizens were not permitted on it and are being flown to Gatwick! Not officially confirmed, is what I'm reading on a Facebook group for family of those onboard Norwegian Jewel.

Have seen a little more info.

There are charter flights to (in departure time order)

YVR
LAX
YVR
OGG
LIH
SYD
KOA
LAX
LGW
LAX
LAX
FRA
LAX

Why would there be charter flights from HNL to OGG/LIH/KOA???

Not sure..possibly a requirement imposed by local authorities to ensure every Hawaii an resident was able to go straight from ship to airport to aircraft? Everyone is being taken by bus from the ship to airport. No taxis, no hotels, just health screening and then off.

AA737-823 · Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:18 pm

Given that, ultimately, terminal 2 is coming down, and terminal 7 is intended to shoehorn in to a modestly "expanded" T8, I wonder if they'll even bother reopening these buildings.
I guess it will depend on how swiftly demand recovers once this eventually blows over.

hmmmm... · Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:23 pm

Does anybody know why there is a hole over Ohio? Is this normal or an illusion created by the software?

Newark727 · Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:25 pm

ATC outage again?

MIflyer12 · Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:36 pm

AAJFKLHR777 wrote:
So effectively Terminals 2 and 7 will be closing as the TSA does not have the manpower to staff checkpoints and bagrooms.

Is this really TSA manpower, or just a response to absence of passengers and flights?

KirkSeattle · Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:38 pm

hmmmm... wrote:
Does anybody know why there is a hole over Ohio? Is this normal or an illusion created by the software?

Isn't that controlled by Indy Center which was closed a day or two ago? It's somewhere in this thread.

atcsundevil · Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:44 pm

hmmmm... wrote:
Does anybody know why there is a hole over Ohio? Is this normal or an illusion created by the software?

Indianapolis Center has been on ATC alert since either Thursday or Friday. Some areas (areas are groups of sectors) are closed after a Front Line Manager in one area tested positive, and a controller in a different area tested positive. Other areas are on limited staffing.

ATC impacts are being updated in the thread below. If you notice weird traffic flows, it's probably due to an ATC facility being ATC zero or on alert.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1443231

sandyb123 · Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:57 pm

Anyone know why there are three TUI 737's coming back to Brussels from the US right now? Doesn't seem like the perfect time to bring aircraft out of storage and they don't operate those routes regularly? Repatriation flights?

https://fr24.com/JAF016F/24426f66
https://fr24.com/JAF018F/24426ad3
https://fr24.com/JAF017F/24426f09

Sandyb123

mark787 · Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:03 pm

I would say that its for both reasons. might as well close terminal 2 for good now. And BA and IB could probably move from 7 to 8 sooner as demand will be low for several months to come.

CXH · Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:16 pm

sandyb123 wrote:
Anyone know why there are three TUI 737's coming back to Brussels from the US right now? Doesn't seem like the perfect time to bring aircraft out of storage and they don't operate those routes regularly? Repatriation flights?

https://fr24.com/JAF016F/24426f66
https://fr24.com/JAF018F/24426ad3
https://fr24.com/JAF017F/24426f09

Sandyb123

Like the Sunwing flights mentioned upthread on the same page (page 34), I speculate these are seasonal sub-lease returns. Except the "returns" are early this year.

Winter is peak "sun" tourism season in Canada and much of the U.S. It is the reverse of Europe, so many leisure oriented airlines swaps high density B738s and similar aircraft every winter and summer.

Note: Sunwing is 49% owned by TUI. Not sure who these TUI Belgium aircraft were being operated by over the winter. Maybe it was Sunwing since they own Vacation Express based in Atlanta.

chepos · Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:18 pm

PR following HI with the 14 day quarantine upon arrival.

Additionally, as of tomorrow only SJU will accept passenger flights.
This is much needed as both deaths on the island thus far are non residents of PR, with 31 cases currently (some whom are recebt arrivals from the mainland). With the amount of traffic from the tri state area and FL this could get ugly really fast in PR. People have been asking for a suspension of passenger flights from the mainland, however, this was not granted.

Link in Spanish

https://www.elnuevodia.com/noticias/loc ... n-2555193/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

arcticcruiser · Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:30 pm

sailsail wrote:
asuflyer wrote:
OS is doing pax rescue flights from CUN, MEX, PUJ, HAV and IAD and picking up supplies for Austria in XMN.

https://twitter.com/lufthansaNews/statu ... 9538436097

Interesting. Did these carriers already have this procedure in their ops manuals or did they revise them to allow cargo in the passenger cabin? Or did they just do it anyway as it’s a world wide emergency? My carrier does not allow this yet and is one of the big three.

Lot´s of airlines in EASALand have the procedure to use SOC (seats occupied by containers) on their books. Not often used, but there if you need it.

BHfence · Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:30 pm

Could UA get back into JFK now that traffic went off a cliff?

KFTG · Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:40 pm

Agreed re: JFK terminal alignment (assuming the staff can even get to work legally to accomplish it). This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to re-align JFK to increase efficiency - albeit, cash is king right now. I wouldn't hold my breath. If anything, immediate demolishing of T2 will *create* jobs - which are needed badly right now. Crazy times.

MRYapproach · Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:41 pm

My handle is MRYapproach because I live right under the approach to Monterey airport in California. But I also live under the "approaches" from SoCal to SFO and from Asia to LAX. So everything from CRJs to A380s passes overhead multiple times per hour. Normally into SFO every few minutes. Most are quiet, except with a SFO inbound extends the flaps directly overhead.

Into MRY is down by 80% (including bizjets), into SFO is down by 50%, and into LAX is down by 90%. (freighters usually stop in AKC so don't pass overhead so much)

Eerily quiet

The aviation world is coming to a screeching halt

ShamrockBoi330 · Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:43 pm

bhxdtw wrote:
Hey guys! Just noticed a DL A350 leaving Detroit for Dublin, flight number 8834. I'm assuming that's a Covid rescue flight?

Cargo onlyI believe.

litz · Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:46 pm

I believe they're bringing medical supplies over, just like the AA cargo flight was

tys777 · Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:00 am

litz wrote:
I believe they're bringing medical supplies over, just like the AA cargo flight was

Medtronic produces ventilators in Ireland. Probably having to do with that.

Midwestindy · Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:01 am

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local ... ntis-says/

Travelers from New York coming to Florida, are now being placed under mandatory 14 day quarantine.

“Today there are over 190 direct flights from the New York City area(including New Jersey) to Florida”

"Gov. DeSantis said local law enforcement, state law enforcement, and health officials will meet travelers on their flights from New York and New Jersey to conduct temperature checks."

Wouldn't be surprised if more states follow....

tphuang · Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:08 am

Midwestindy wrote:
https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2020/03/23/travelers-flying-from-new-york-to-florida-will-be-placed-under-14-day-quarantine-gov-desantis-says/

Travelers from New York coming to Florida, are now being placed under mandatory 14 day quarantine.

“Today there are over 190 direct flights from the New York City area(including New Jersey) to Florida”

"Gov. DeSantis said local law enforcement, state law enforcement, and health officials will meet travelers on their flights from New York and New Jersey to conduct temperature checks."

Wouldn't be surprised if more states follow....

First PR and now this. That's going to kill a significant of remaining demand out of NY/NJ

mkorpal333 · Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:37 am

BHfence wrote:
Could UA get back into JFK now that traffic went off a cliff?

I'm going to guess UA has higher priorities right now.

LNCS0930 · Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:49 am

tphuang wrote:
so now that it looks like the bill discussed is only offering loans and not grant. Also, it would require commitment from airlines to not furlough. Do any or all airlines take this loan?

Can't see it. I could see some sort of stipulation that they cannot charge change/baggage fees til 12/31. Also like carbon emissions rules which all the big carriers have been somewhat preparing for anyway the last few years anticipating it might come

LAXdude1023 · Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:57 am

tphuang wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2020/03/23/travelers-flying-from-new-york-to-florida-will-be-placed-under-14-day-quarantine-gov-desantis-says/

Travelers from New York coming to Florida, are now being placed under mandatory 14 day quarantine.

“Today there are over 190 direct flights from the New York City area(including New Jersey) to Florida”

"Gov. DeSantis said local law enforcement, state law enforcement, and health officials will meet travelers on their flights from New York and New Jersey to conduct temperature checks."

Wouldn't be surprised if more states follow....

First PR and now this. That's going to kill a significant of remaining demand out of NY/NJ

I think that’s the point.

FlyingElvii · Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:08 am

Compass AA airplanes are all apparently going to Marana over the next two weeks.

FlyingElvii · Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:16 am

arcticcruiser wrote:
sailsail wrote:
asuflyer wrote:
OS is doing pax rescue flights from CUN, MEX, PUJ, HAV and IAD and picking up supplies for Austria in XMN.

https://twitter.com/lufthansaNews/statu ... 9538436097

Interesting. Did these carriers already have this procedure in their ops manuals or did they revise them to allow cargo in the passenger cabin? Or did they just do it anyway as it’s a world wide emergency? My carrier does not allow this yet and is one of the big three.

Lot´s of airlines in EASALand have the procedure to use SOC (seats occupied by containers) on their books. Not often used, but there if you need it.

Small Midwest Regional airline I worked for in the 80’s used to do that on B99’s...

They were boxes of expensive fur coats, on EAS flights from a small town.

tax1k · Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:36 am

Midwestindy wrote:
https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2020/03/23/travelers-flying-from-new-york-to-florida-will-be-placed-under-14-day-quarantine-gov-desantis-says/

Travelers from New York coming to Florida, are now being placed under mandatory 14 day quarantine.

“Today there are over 190 direct flights from the New York City area(including New Jersey) to Florida”

"Gov. DeSantis said local law enforcement, state law enforcement, and health officials will meet travelers on their flights from New York and New Jersey to conduct temperature checks."

Wouldn't be surprised if more states follow....

There could be serious constitutional issues with doing that to interstate travelers. Doubt anyone has time or energy to sue over it.

kipfilet · Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:40 am

Major airlines drafting plans to voluntarily shut down all domestic flights
https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-domest ... eakingnews

TObound · Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:42 am

MRYapproach wrote:
My handle is MRYapproach because I live right under the approach to Monterey airport in California. But I also live under the "approaches" from SoCal to SFO and from Asia to LAX. So everything from CRJs to A380s passes overhead multiple times per hour. Normally into SFO every few minutes. Most are quiet, except with a SFO inbound extends the flaps directly overhead.

Into MRY is down by 80% (including bizjets), into SFO is down by 50%, and into LAX is down by 90%. (freighters usually stop in AKC so don't pass overhead so much)

Eerily quiet

The aviation world is coming to a screeching halt

Used to live in the area for school. I am just trying to think where you'd be to cover both MRY and SFO. Gilroy?

Antaras · Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:43 am

A nice deal from VietJet Air.
VJ said that it will pay you from Đ20,000,000 to Đ200,000,000 (around $860 to $8600) if you are infected with the coronavirus.
Have a look at VJ press release here.
Anyone

???

paperwastage · Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:02 am

Not unexpected

FAA grants slot usage waiver for JFK, LGA, DCA til May 2020

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0259-2804

Through May 31, 2020, the FAA will waive the minimum usage requirement as to any slot associated with a scheduled nonstop flight between JFK, LGA, or DCA, respectively, and other points that is canceled as a direct result of Coronavirus-related impacts. This action is effective for Coronavirus-related flight cancelations through May 31, 2020.

The FAA is acting in good faith in granting relief to carriers worldwide impacted by the Coronavirus. In doing so, the FAA expects that U.S. carriers will be accommodated with reciprocal relief by foreign slot coordinators

Tankdiver · Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:03 am

Antaras wrote:
A nice deal from VietJet Air.
VJ said that it will pay you from Đ20,000,000 to Đ200,000,000 (around $860 to $8600) if you are infected with the coronavirus.
Have a look at VJ press release here.
Anyone ???

What you said there is kind of misleading....What you should have wrote is " Vietjet offers passengers Covid 19 insurance with coverage from 20,000,000VND up to 200,000,000VND should you get infected". The way you worded it as if VJ will pay anybody if they are infected with the coronavirus, passenger or not. That would be a nice deal for anyone who is infected to walk into their office to claim it!

tphuang · Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:04 am

Article on AS cuts
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... _inset_1.1
200 flights a day out of 1300
vs competitor WN which is cutting
1500 flights a day out of 4000 (and increasing by the day)

here is the kicker,
"An Alaska customer service agent in San Francisco, who asked not to be identified to speak freely, said most Alaska planes flying out of there are about 90% empty."
10% LF out of SFO.

here is the southwest article
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/a ... 904032001/
1500 flights a day out of 4000

I saw another article that was saying they were seeing 20% LF on their flights.

adambrau · Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:33 am

My partner returned from JAX to EWR today. After his B6 flight to JFK was cancelled he had a choice of 2 UA flights. One had 5 pax the other had 2. Agent advised him to book the flight that had 5 pax...

haynflyer · Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:59 am

cathay747 wrote:
bananaboy wrote:
bananaboy wrote:

I know a little about two of them. WAMOS Air have 2 x 747s heading from Madrid to HNL. One will head to FRA (possibly non-stop) as is showing a lighter load. The other will route through Vancouver to London Gatwick.

Edit. Just reading that there'll be another flight going to Sydney. Unfortunately the New Zealand citizens were not permitted on it and are being flown to Gatwick! Not officially confirmed, is what I'm reading on a Facebook group for family of those onboard Norwegian Jewel.

Have seen a little more info.

There are charter flights to (in departure time order)

YVR
LAX
YVR
OGG
LIH
SYD
KOA
LAX
LGW
LAX
LAX
FRA
LAX

Why would there be charter flights from HNL to OGG/LIH/KOA???

The interisland flights are to transport Hawaii residents who were on board the ship back to their home island.

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020/03/ ... o-airport/

MRYapproach · Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:22 am

TObound wrote:
MRYapproach wrote:
My handle is MRYapproach because I live right under the approach to Monterey airport in California. But I also live under the "approaches" from SoCal to SFO and from Asia to LAX. So everything from CRJs to A380s passes overhead multiple times per hour. Normally into SFO every few minutes. Most are quiet, except with a SFO inbound extends the flaps directly overhead.

Into MRY is down by 80% (including bizjets), into SFO is down by 50%, and into LAX is down by 90%. (freighters usually stop in AKC so don't pass overhead so much)

Eerily quiet

The aviation world is coming to a screeching halt

Used to live in the area for school. I am just trying to think where you'd be to cover both MRY and SFO. Gilroy?

Gilroy is under the SJC path. I’m by Laguna Seca.

Used to be great plane watching here.

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