Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

Web500sjc · Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:45 pm

gregpodpl wrote:
Bradlee102896 wrote:
LDRA wrote:
Delta is parking A339s and A350s?

I guess so. They are scheduled to arrive in BHM tomorrow and have 9000 flight numbers.

Can someone explain that to me - why would they park them in another country?

BHM- Birmingham, Alabama it’s 123NM west of ATL.

The location indicates that they are being parked temporarily due to lack of space. If there were being parked long term, MZJ would be more appropriate.

FLALEFTY · Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:57 pm

Bradlee102896 wrote:
Delta looks to also be ferrying aircraft to Birmingham International Airport BHM
4x B763
2x B764
1x B772
3x A333
1x A339
2x A359

I don't know how to add the FR24 link but those are scheduled as of 2:00 P.M today.

Here's the Flight Aware link for BHM. Any Delta widebody with a 9000's-series number arriving the next few days are likely ferry flights to BHM. It looks like they are sending these planes into their "hot storage" lot at BHM that DL used to use as a staging area years ago during their rehabilitation program for the MD90's they had gathered from around the globe.

https://flightaware.com/live/airport/KBHM

dcajet · Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:58 pm

Argentina's main F/A union (AAA Asociacion Argentina de Aeronavegantes) issued a mandate to all its members not to offer any inflight service (food/beverages) until the Covid-19 crisis is over. It affects crews with Aerolineas Argentinas, LATAM Argentina, American Airlines and Andes. Low cost airlines Flybondi and JetSmart have their own unions and have not announced yet a similar measure.

https://twitter.com/Aeronavegantes/stat ... 1254933505

FLALEFTY · Sun Mar 15, 2020 7:59 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
Bradlee102896 wrote:
Delta looks to also be ferrying aircraft to Birmingham International Airport BHM
4x B763
2x B764
1x B772
3x A333
1x A339
2x A359

I don't know how to add the FR24 link but those are scheduled as of 2:00 P.M today.

Here's the Flight Aware link for BHM. Any Delta widebodies with a 9000's-series number arriving the next few days are likely ferry flights to BHM. It looks like they are sending these planes into their "hot storage" lot at BHM that DL used to use as a staging area years ago during their rehabilitation program for the MD90's they had gathered from around the globe.

https://flightaware.com/live/airport/KBHM

PacoMartin · Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:15 pm

chepos wrote:
More and more countries keep on closing entry borders, before we know it airlines will only fly domestic services.

There are relatively few cases in the Americas and no flights have been canceled by government action. Naturally, there is a lot of fear of flying so many young people are snapping up cheap fares to Cancun and the Caribbean islands.

asdf · Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:16 pm

According to the Austrian Chancellor Kurz, VIE is currently around 20% of normal operations.

According to the Chancellor in the national TV news this evening VIE is to be closed completely as soon as possible, essentially one would now only like to give Austrians abroad the opportunity to come back for some time.
A few days ago Austria declared a travel warning level 6 for the rest of the world, which means "Do not travel abroad. If you are there, return to Austria immediately.

The borders with the countries around Austria are largely closed.
Starting tomorrow, regional exit restrictions or exit bans will apply in Austria.

heffron91 · Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:20 pm

SQ22 wrote:
mxaxai wrote:
Lufthansa is scheduling up to 15 'rescue' flights to the carribean, the canary islands, Morocco and possibly other tourist hotspots. This is to repatriate tourists who got stuck there due to the recent flight cancellations. Up to 4000 tourists are expected by Wednesday, mostly Germans but also other nationalities.

To avoid deletion, please remember always to provide a link to a source.

In German:

Lufthansa will mit Sonderflügen Urlauber zurück nach Deutschland holen

Target audience according to the article are holiday makers and people returning from a cruise who are stranded due to the current situation. Aircraft to be used for the 15 flights are A340 and B747. Flights to be operated until Wednesday. Outbound flights will be empty flights, destinations Tneriffe, Barbados and Punta Cana. Flights are going to Berlin, Frankfurt, Hamburg and Munich. In addition two flights to Dominican Republic and Barbados are operated as scheduled. Which carrier is operating these two flights is not mentioned, but these routes operated by EW long-haul ops under normal conditions.

At the moment fr24 shows 2x LH 744 FRA-BGI LH9872/9874 and 2x LH 346 MUC-BGI LH9852/9854.

https://www.flightradar24.com/multiview/24316999,24317aac,24314d19,24315aed

dcajet · Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:22 pm

PacoMartin wrote:
chepos wrote:
More and more countries keep on closing entry borders, before we know it airlines will only fly domestic services.

There are relatively few cases in the Americas and no flights have been canceled by government action. Naturally, there is a lot of fear of flying so many young people are snapping up cheap fares to Cancun and the Caribbean islands.

Quite a few countries in the Americas have cancelled flights and imposed bans of some sort or the other: US, Argentina, Ecuador, Peru, Venezuela, and some islands (Curacao, St. Maarten). Those snapping cheap fares to the Caribbean may find themselves with a surprise in their hands if the trend continues.

JayinKitsap · Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:29 pm

I'm not either a pessimist or optimist, I try and stay with reason and make decisions as an engineer does. From this, the self isolation and social distancing needs to start as soon as 1st cases are noted, then run for around 3 months. That significantly blunts the % of the population with it during the contagious period, viruses do tend to peak and then dissipate. So this massive disruption will go for 3 to 4 months from now, then start to fill back in. Upthread, I think it was CX is now increasing flights from Hong Kong. This is about 2 months after the big clamp down.

The need for freight and its revenue may bring some routes back. Those flights with full bellies going to/from say the 11 US airports could carry about half a cabin of passengers with a decent amount of social distancing. If each 2 or 3 seat group of seats only had one set of passengers that booked together in it, or for the wider center banks of 4 or 5 seats placed 2 empty seats between would get nearly 3 feet of distance rather than almost touching. Add in some PPE such as gloves and masks for both pax and crew it would be a lot better. A good advert department could bring up the "we guarantee an empty seat by yours" would draw traffic from the competition.

onwFan · Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:30 pm

chepos wrote:
Have EI, VS and BA announce what they are operating to the US once the ban becomes effective? I know BA left a few US cities with inventory but nothing official.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... t-15mar20/

dcajet · Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:31 pm

Air New Zealand suspends 85% of its international flying until June. Suspending LAX-LHR, AKL-ORD, IAH, SFO, EZE, YVR, NRT, HNL, DPS, TPE.

https://twitter.com/SkyWriterAv/status/ ... 5251381248

marcogr12 · Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:38 pm

With the upcoming ban on UK/Ireland flights from USA i dont understand how airlines are going to maintain some of their flights to LHR, as suggested in previous posts

mkorpal333 · Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:40 pm

dcajet wrote:
Air New Zealand suspends 85% of its international flying until June. Suspending LAX-LHR, AKL-ORD, IAH, SFO, EZE, YVR, NRT, HNL, DPS, TPE.

https://twitter.com/SkyWriterAv/status/ ... 5251381248

How much longer was LAX-LHR supposed to run anyway?

dcajet · Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:45 pm

mkorpal333 wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Air New Zealand suspends 85% of its international flying until June. Suspending LAX-LHR, AKL-ORD, IAH, SFO, EZE, YVR, NRT, HNL, DPS, TPE.

https://twitter.com/SkyWriterAv/status/ ... 5251381248

How much longer was LAX-LHR supposed to run anyway?

I believe late October was the date for that flight to go away. It may have an early retirement.

dcajet · Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:46 pm

dcajet wrote:
PacoMartin wrote:
chepos wrote:
More and more countries keep on closing entry borders, before we know it airlines will only fly domestic services.

There are relatively few cases in the Americas and no flights have been canceled by government action. Naturally, there is a lot of fear of flying so many young people are snapping up cheap fares to Cancun and the Caribbean islands.

Quite a few countries in the Americas have cancelled flights and imposed bans of some sort or the other: US, Argentina, Ecuador, Peru, Venezuela, and some islands (Curacao, St. Maarten). Those snapping cheap fares to the Caribbean may find themselves with a surprise in their hands if the trend continues.

Add Colombia to the list. As of tomorrow (16/3) they are barring the entry of foreigners to their territory.

UWPAviation · Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:18 pm

JayinKitsap wrote:
I'm not either a pessimist or optimist, I try and stay with reason and make decisions as an engineer does. From this, the self isolation and social distancing needs to start as soon as 1st cases are noted, then run for around 3 months. That significantly blunts the % of the population with it during the contagious period, viruses do tend to peak and then dissipate. So this massive disruption will go for 3 to 4 months from now, then start to fill back in. Upthread, I think it was CX is now increasing flights from Hong Kong. This is about 2 months after the big clamp down.

The need for freight and its revenue may bring some routes back. Those flights with full bellies going to/from say the 11 US airports could carry about half a cabin of passengers with a decent amount of social distancing. If each 2 or 3 seat group of seats only had one set of passengers that booked together in it, or for the wider center banks of 4 or 5 seats placed 2 empty seats between would get nearly 3 feet of distance rather than almost touching. Add in some PPE such as gloves and masks for both pax and crew it would be a lot better. A good advert department could bring up the "we guarantee an empty seat by yours" would draw traffic from the competition.

You’re 100% correct. To bad a lot of people, here in the US, are not listening to that. Just yesterday wrigleyville in Chicago had its annual St. Patty’s pub crawl with thousands from people. And I cannot tell you how many people I know or see on social media are still vacationing, going out to bars etc.

Unfortunately for a good chunk of people here, it literally takes them getting impacted or a loved on before they realize ok, I have to stay home. And even then, some people refuse to believe it.

airplaneboy · Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:19 pm

LAX police officer tests positive for Covid-19.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/lax-police-o ... us-covid19

Anecdotally, my coworker’s husband is an ER doctor in Texas and said that more than 2/3 of patients with symptoms are testing negative for the flu (but they aren’t being tested for Covid-19 since they don’t have testing kits). It’s potentially more serious in the US than some might think.

aemoreira1981 · Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:50 pm

Revelation wrote:
Public takeover of Alitialia close to being enacted:

The Italian government is close to taking full control of Alitalia, as the coronavirus outbreak in Europe was forcing it to abandon plans to find a buyer for the ailing national carrier, daily Il Messaggero said on Sunday.

According to the plan, which the report said was already at an “advanced stage”, the government would take control of both Alitalia’s aviation and land operations through a public vehicle, the report said, adding the plan would be implemented “in a short time”.

Ref: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ital ... 00012bf8d6

Shocking, I know...

The EU ought to suspend the rules against state aid for this situation, as for the base situation, no one in the EU can be held responsible. That said, I see a lot of ghost flights operating (at least on the passenger side), and the MD-11s at LH (GEC) might have gotten a new lease on life as they will be flying sectors in passenger slots.

Domestically, to larger airports, the 787 or A330 fleet would be ideal for belly cargo and US Mail ops, once or twice daily

N212R · Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:53 pm

32andBelow wrote:
The DOD shut down all domestic flying for military members.

As Artie Johnson would say...very interesting. Why would it (still) be safe for civilians but somehow unsafe for soldiers and their dependents?

AirBoat · Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:54 pm

with immediate effect travel from USA, UK, ITALY, IRAN CHINA ETC into south Africa is forbidden.
see speech by sa president Ramaphosa this evening.
Schools are closed from next Wednesday until after Easter.
Total infections detected so far in south Africa is 51. It was only 7 a week ago.The first 7 travelled from Italy. Of the last group half were from USA and UK.

32andBelow · Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:57 pm

N212R wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
The DOD shut down all domestic flying for military members.

As Artie Johnson would say...very interesting. Why would it (still) be safe for civilians but somehow unsafe for soldiers and their dependents?

The DOD is actually very progressive on these issues. They’ve believe in climate change for decades now.

Vctony · Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:13 pm

I give it a few days to a week or two before either airlines voluntarily cancel all flights, cities and states start closing airports or he federal government ends all domestic air travel. Bookings are already down and finding crew members willing to work if this gets far worse is going to be a challenge, not to mention the desire to slow the spread of the disease. If states are already closing bars and restaurants, airports and airlines have got to be next.

bennett123 · Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:18 pm

https://www.military.com/daily-news/202 ... 1584161633

If it is not appropriate for DOD people to fly domestic, then presumably they conclude that it is appropriate for civilians as well.

PANAMsterdam · Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:23 pm

Bradlee102896 wrote:
Delta looks to also be ferrying aircraft to Birmingham International Airport BHM
4x B763
2x B764
1x B772
3x A333
1x A339
2x A359

You know poop hits the fan when airlines are parking brand new, fuel efficient aircraft

Or canceling 90% of their flights, like SAS.

AngMoh · Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:27 pm

AngMoh wrote:
heffron91 wrote:
AngMoh wrote:
Singapore just added 14-days isolation requirements to people coming back from UK, Switzerland, Japan and all of ASEAN.

One top of existing restrictions, there are only a few flights left. I expect USA next to be on the list as we see way too many imported case from US (small in absolute number but getting big in numbers relative to the number of pax flying in).

Does this apply to transit pax from let's say Indonesia to Europe via Changi? And do you know per when this measure becomes active?

It does not apply to transit, only entry into Singapore. Active from Monday 16 Mar 23:59.

https://www.moh.gov.sg/news-highlights/ ... d-19-cases

Additional clarification was issued last night:

No Entry and No Transit: coming from Mainland China, , France, Germany, Italy, Iran, South Korea and Spain
No Entry: ASEAN, Japan, Switzerland, UK

N212R · Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:28 pm

32andBelow wrote:
The DOD is actually very progressive on these issues. They’ve believe in climate change for decades now.

Progressive be darned, what has been described, if true, is nothing short of a troubling double-standard.

par13del · Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:32 pm

So the reason why FlyBe was wound up so quickly and all and sundry wanted no help for them was.....

davidjohnson6 · Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:40 pm

... that flybe couldn't even make money reliably in good times - ie it repeatedly showed it would never be able to stand on its own two feet. Most other ailrlines at least show they can make money most of the time and do not request Govt support (or go bust)...

32andBelow · Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:45 pm

N212R wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
The DOD is actually very progressive on these issues. They’ve believe in climate change for decades now.

Progressive be darned, what has been described, if true, is nothing short of a troubling double-standard.

The DOD is an employer banning travel like tons of other employers are doing.

bennett123 · Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:52 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flybe

If you look at 'Business Trends', they made 5.5% profit on turnover in 2008, between 1.5% and 2.0% profit in 2010, 2011 and 2014, less than 1.0% profit in 2009 and 2016. In 2007, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2017 and 2018 they made losses.

Based on that record, who would invest in that outfit?.

Mikey711MN · Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:55 pm

Understanding that we have a general CV-related thread underway, this seemed noteworthy enough and relevant to discuss in its own thread...

Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisagarc ... -up-to-90/

- 10,000 temporary layoffs
- Cancellations starting Monday 16. March
- Limited service "focused on repatriation"

We shall see if others in the EU, e.g. KL, AF, IB, etc. follow suit assuming their future bookings are similarly bleak.

Good luck to all affected,

-Mike

jetmatt777 · Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:02 pm

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/cdphe/ ... qe2z0Qk59Y

I would not be surprised to see some of these airports in Colorado close soon to civilian traffic. Either by direction from the state governor or by their own city/county.

smokeybandit · Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:09 pm

32andBelow wrote:
N212R wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
The DOD is actually very progressive on these issues. They’ve believe in climate change for decades now.

Progressive be darned, what has been described, if true, is nothing short of a troubling double-standard.

The DOD is an employer banning travel like tons of other employers are doing.

How many employers are banning personal travel like the DOD? Or better yet, banning personal travel of the employee's family?

aemoreira1981 · Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:16 pm

gregpodpl wrote:
Bradlee102896 wrote:
LDRA wrote:
Delta is parking A339s and A350s?

I guess so. They are scheduled to arrive in BHM tomorrow and have 9000 flight numbers.

Can someone explain that to me - why would they park them in another country?

BHM is Birmingham Shuttlesworth International Airport. Its main runway, 06/24, is 12,000 feet long. Because BHM is also a military airfield, that main runway can handle any aircraft up to and including the A225,

As for why I don't see airports being closed outright: airfreight.

na · Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:17 pm

Air France is storing 77Ws. Source: Skyliner-Aviation.de

Scotron12 · Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:29 pm

Mikey711MN wrote:
Understanding that we have a general CV-related thread underway, this seemed noteworthy enough and relevant to discuss in its own thread...

Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisagarc ... -up-to-90/

- 10,000 temporary layoffs
- Cancellations starting Monday 16. March
- Limited service "focused on repatriation"

We shall see if others in the EU, e.g. KL, AF, IB, etc. follow suit assuming their future bookings are similarly bleak.

Good luck to all affected,

-Mike

QR shut for 14 days.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/qatar-sus ... ronavirus/

Ishrion · Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:30 pm

na wrote:
Air France is storing 77Ws. Source: Skyliner-Aviation.de

But not the A380? Are they seeing premium demand?

KirkSeattle · Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:35 pm

AirBoat wrote:
with immediate effect travel from USA, UK, ITALY, IRAN CHINA ETC into south Africa is forbidden.
see speech by sa president Ramaphosa this evening.
Schools are closed from next Wednesday until after Easter.
Total infections detected so far in south Africa is 51. It was only 7 a week ago.The first 7 travelled from Italy. Of the last group half were from USA and UK.

They have every right to protect their country. To storage or redeployed:: DL 777, BA A380 (2 frames) from JNB,BA 1 B744 from CPT, and I think 1 BA 777 from CPT, UA B 787 from CPT. I'm sure there are more for SAA and other airlines. Parking lots are getting full! Sad times.

dcajet · Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:43 pm

More measures in Argentina: closes all borders to foreigners (permanent residents exempted) for the next 15 days. I'd expect more airlines dropping service to Argentina. Domestic travel is being discouraged too: national parks & museums closed and all public entertainment (movies, theaters, concerts, sport events) are no longer permitted.

https://twitter.com/telenoche/status/12 ... 8751081474

dcajet · Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:59 pm

Uruguay joins the list of South American countries that ban flights from the US (would affect AA, but then the airline suspended the MVD-MIA route) and Europe (affects Iberia and Air Europa). Effective the 18th and 20th of March, indefinite duration.

https://twitter.com/FedeLarralde/status ... 3236986880

N212R · Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:15 am

32andBelow wrote:
The DOD is an employer banning travel like tons of other employers are doing.

The DOD is not an employer like "tons of others". Please list the tons of 7 million employee companies currently operating in the US?

Your analogy is beyond disingenuous.

bananaboy · Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:21 am

Tui Group to suspend "vast majority of operations."

https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles ... operations

Mark

MartijnNL · Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:23 am

ClassicLover wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Qatar Airways is suspending all flights except for cargo/transit starting Wednesday.

That's a big one. I wonder if either of the other ME3 will have the same thing occur.

Looks like it's not a big one. They will continue to operate, but only passengers who are connecting in Doha are allowed on board.

AirAfreak · Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:29 am

mxaxai wrote:
FlyingHonu001 wrote:
DL last remaining routes to AMS per Monday, everything else cancelled
DL72/74 ATL
DL132/134 DTW

Are you certain (or have a source)? DL75, DL85 and DL135 (westbound) and DL72, DL82 and DL134 (eastbound) remain bookable on Delta metal throughout march. All other TATL routes to the EU are off the system already.

DL118 LAX CDG is still bookable for 3/26 on delta.com at 5:24pm PST Sun, March 15 on DELTA metal. (777-200 eqp)

Nothing personal to you or anyone else but I just wish people would do their homework before posting misinformation. I’ve been following this DELTA TATL flight for over a week now because I’m debating whether or not to take this convenient afternoon flight to Paris to see my family or to just stay home in Los Angeles.

32andBelow · Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:30 am

N212R wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
The DOD is an employer banning travel like tons of other employers are doing.

The DOD is not an employer like "tons of others". Please list the tons of 7 million employee companies currently operating in the US?

Your analogy is beyond disingenuous.

It’s one department. My department DOT has also banned travel except for necessity.

blueflyer · Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:34 am

Breaking: The CDC is recommending against gatherings of more than 50 people for the next eight weeks. Do 51 people waiting to board an aircraft count as an un-recommended gathering?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... atest-news

AMP44 · Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:42 am

Panama's president Nito Cortizo announced:

"Starting this March 16 at 11:59 pm, the entry into the country of non-nationals and non-residents in Panama is restricted. All Panamanians or foreigners residing in Panama will have mandatory preventive isolation at home for 14 days."

https://twitter.com/NitoCortizo/status/ ... 9429803013

ZazuPIT · Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:43 am

FR24 is going to be very quiet in a couple of weeks.

tax1k · Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:51 am

I’m not noticing any big reduction in fares for travel in April or May. I thought fares would start coming down.

ArtV · Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:55 am

tax1k wrote:
I’m not noticing any big reduction in fares for travel in April or May. I thought fares would start coming down.

That is because there are a significant reduction in flights globally...parking aircraft is better than trying to chase lower fares and stimulating demand at this time. Fares will only increase as a precursor to more flights coming back online in the future, so don't expect cheap flights any time soon.

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