Coronavirus Aviation Related News & Discussion Thread - March 2020 - Part II

janders · Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:53 pm

Due to high volume of postings and regretfully 9 pages worth of off-topic deletions, we are locking the previous thread with hopes of starting fresh.

As a reminder, this thread is ONLY FOR AVIATION discussions, not for social, medical, or political commentary.

Post only factual information and provide source links to articles or photos.

Link to the now locked March thread:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1442123

For broader Covid-19 discussion utilize the NON-AV section thread found below:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1438989

Members that cannot properly participate will be issued warnings, which can lead to account bans.

Thank you for your cooperation.

zakuivcustom · Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:57 pm

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-as ... ral-spread

Metro Manila will be placed in a lockdown starting March 15.

Aviation-wise:
"He (Duterte) said he had approved the task force's recommendation to suspend "land, domestic air and domestic sea travel to and from Metro Manila" from March 15 till April 14."

So basically all domestic flights to/from MNL will be suspended. Not sure about international flights yet.

P.S. I do appreciate janders for starting a new thread.

Starfuryt · Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:03 pm

One of the very last posts in the previous thread was Finnair's press release, so I'm going to repost it here.

tl;dr: "Finnair is cancelling all flights to the US between 19 March and 12 April due to the US Government’s travel restrictions. Finnair is also cancelling its flights to Delhi between 15 March and 14 April due to recent visa restrictions."

full press release: https://company.finnair.com/en/media/al ... id=3597687

-Mikhail

eta unknown · Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:10 pm

Re Linate closure- Linate is restricted to EU flights only. A few days ago AZ pulled all their EU flights except for domestic.

Momo1435 · Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:11 pm

A separate news and reference thread would be a good idea. There will only be more news in the coming weeks, and also more discussions, so people looking for news will get lost in this thread.

dcajet · Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:14 pm

LATAM is cutting all its subsidiaries' flights to the US & Europe by 30% between April 1 and May 30. Airline is also suspending new investments, expenses and hiring as well as incentives for unpaid leave and to bring forward vacations.

https://www.eturbonews.com/566870/latam ... mately-30/

FlyingHonu001 · Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:28 pm

Short video of KL current hygiene policy onboard a/c
https://youtu.be/MGek_hYSjAQ

gatibosgru · Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:28 pm

Starfuryt wrote:
One of the very last posts in the previous thread was Finnair's press release, so I'm going to repost it here.

tl;dr: "Finnair is cancelling all flights to the US between 19 March and 12 April due to the US Government’s travel restrictions. Finnair is also cancelling its flights to Delhi between 15 March and 14 April due to recent visa restrictions."

full press release: https://company.finnair.com/en/media/al ... id=3597687

-Mikhail

Sad as I was super excited to try them for the first time on the 24th of this month from HEL to MIA. I'm flying AA from MIA to CDG and on the return had a day layover in HEL, I wonder if they'll just re-accommodate me on CDG-MIA nonstop or the entire thing will be canceled.

Starfuryt · Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:34 pm

LH Press release:

highlights:
Chicago, Newark (New York) and Washington will still be served
Special flight schedule for the USA will be available soon
Flight operations to Canada continue unchanged
The impact of the changes in the entry regulations for India is currently being assessed
Customers are asked to check their current flight status on lufthansa.com, swiss.com, austrian.com or brusselsairlines.com

full press release:

https://newsroom.lufthansagroup.com/eng ... d32dd3d337

-Mikhail

LAXintl · Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:37 pm

China is returning to business.

Air China upped their LAX/SFO frequencies from 4 to 6 this week.

B747forever · Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:43 pm

Starfuryt wrote:
One of the very last posts in the previous thread was Finnair's press release, so I'm going to repost it here.

tl;dr: "Finnair is cancelling all flights to the US between 19 March and 12 April due to the US Government’s travel restrictions. Finnair is also cancelling its flights to Delhi between 15 March and 14 April due to recent visa restrictions."

full press release: https://company.finnair.com/en/media/al ... id=3597687

-Mikhail

Argh, had a J trip with them booked flying ARN-HEL-LAX on 4/12.

FlyingHonu001 · Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:01 pm

Anyone travelling DL outbound/inbound to AMS, the following routes will be suspended after Friday

DL 410/411 MCO
DL 56/57 SLC
DL 178/179 PDX

piedmontf284000 · Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:15 pm

Norwegian to cut 4000 flights and lay off half of its work force. Bad times...

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/12/coronav ... oyees.html

panamair · Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:29 pm

FlyingHonu001 wrote:
Anyone travelling DL outbound/inbound to AMS, the following routes will be suspended after Friday

DL 410/411 MCO
DL 56/57 SLC
DL 178/179 PDX

This is due to the fact that these US gateways are not on the list of 11 CDC-approved ones for entry with enhanced checks. So Delta has to suspend all TATL flights from SLC, PDX, MCO, IND, CVG and RDU starting tomorrow.

readytotaxi · Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:35 pm

I guess the likes of Gate Goumet will be taking a hit around the world as well with less flights to cater for.

KMCOFlyer · Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:39 pm

panamair wrote:
FlyingHonu001 wrote:
Anyone travelling DL outbound/inbound to AMS, the following routes will be suspended after Friday

DL 410/411 MCO
DL 56/57 SLC
DL 178/179 PDX

This is due to the fact that these US gateways are not on the list of 11 CDC-approved ones for entry with enhanced checks. So Delta has to suspend all TATL flights from SLC, PDX, MCO, IND, CVG and RDU starting tomorrow.

Strangely, BOS and MSP are also not on that list and no suspensions have been announced from those cities yet.

Scarebus34 · Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:45 pm

32andBelow wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:
Starfuryt wrote:
One of the very last posts in the previous thread was Finnair's press release, so I'm going to repost it here.

tl;dr: "Finnair is cancelling all flights to the US between 19 March and 12 April due to the US Government’s travel restrictions. Finnair is also cancelling its flights to Delhi between 15 March and 14 April due to recent visa restrictions."

full press release: https://company.finnair.com/en/media/al ... id=3597687

-Mikhail

Sad as I was super excited to try them for the first time on the 24th of this month from HEL to MIA. I'm flying AA from MIA to CDG and on the return had a day layover in HEL, I wonder if they'll just re-accommodate me on CDG-MIA nonstop or the entire thing will be canceled.

All flights from Europe to the US are cancelled except for flights from the UK.

This is not true.

joeblow10 · Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:02 pm

KMCOFlyer wrote:
panamair wrote:
FlyingHonu001 wrote:
Anyone travelling DL outbound/inbound to AMS, the following routes will be suspended after Friday

DL 410/411 MCO
DL 56/57 SLC
DL 178/179 PDX

This is due to the fact that these US gateways are not on the list of 11 CDC-approved ones for entry with enhanced checks. So Delta has to suspend all TATL flights from SLC, PDX, MCO, IND, CVG and RDU starting tomorrow.

Strangely, BOS and MSP are also not on that list and no suspensions have been announced from those cities yet.

Apparently - there is a decision to be made on whether either or both will be added to the approved list

KBUF · Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:14 pm

A passenger on a JetBlue JFK-PBI flight tested positive while en route: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/12/us/c ... &smtyp=cur

Starfuryt · Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:22 pm

A bit of a wait and see press release by Air France:

https://corporate.airfrance.com/en/pres ... march-2020

crjflyboy · Thu Mar 12, 2020 6:55 pm

On a DL flight right now from PBI to ATL ... ONLY 8 PASSENGERS ON A 737 - 900 .... do not see how the airlines can survive much longer without federal help ... PBI was deader than Christmas day ... grim

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KPBI/KATL

32andBelow · Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:01 pm

crjflyboy wrote:
On a DL flight right now from PBI to ATL ... ONLY 8 PASSENGERS ON A 737 - 900 .... do not see how the airlines can survive much longer without federal help ... PBI was deader than Christmas day ... grim

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KPBI/KATL

They need to cut capacity.

Miamiairport · Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:10 pm

Cutting capacity won't be easy particularly when airlines don't even know the immediate future. Even after 9/11 there was the assumption air travel would recover in the upcoming weeks. Add to that the massive number of routes and new planes added over the past 20 years here in the US. Those a/c have debt and lease payments that need paying. This time around the airlines might be forced to fly around 25% full planes at least for awhile. By summer if this trend continues then the airlines have got real problems.

So those of us that have no intention of slowing our flying enjoy the empty planes and easy upgrades. It will be short lived one way or another.

Etheereal · Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:11 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
gatibosgru wrote:

Sad as I was super excited to try them for the first time on the 24th of this month from HEL to MIA. I'm flying AA from MIA to CDG and on the return had a day layover in HEL, I wonder if they'll just re-accommodate me on CDG-MIA nonstop or the entire thing will be canceled.

All flights from Europe to the US are cancelled except for flights from the UK.

This is not true.

Check again

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential ... ronavirus/

Scarebus34 · Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:13 pm

Etheereal wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
All flights from Europe to the US are cancelled except for flights from the UK.

This is not true.

Check again

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential ... ronavirus/

All flights are not cancelled. Certain airports have been designated to receive flights from the EU beyond Friday. This order only applies to foreign nationals who have visited certain countries.

crjflyboy · Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:18 pm

32andBelow wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
On a DL flight right now from PBI to ATL ... ONLY 8 PASSENGERS ON A 737 - 900 .... do not see how the airlines can survive much longer without federal help ... PBI was deader than Christmas day ... grim

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KPBI/KATL

They need to cut capacity.

I can not dispute what you are saying .. from what I'm seeing DL could go to one flight a day between ATL - PBI on CRJ 200 and still would not fill it ... we are in the TWILIGHT ZONE ...on a good note ...the lead FA did allow anyone that wanted to move first class seating feel free to do so ...

Revelation · Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:31 pm

Etheereal wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
All flights from Europe to the US are cancelled except for flights from the UK.

This is not true.

Check again

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential ... ronavirus/

Ok:

Given the importance of protecting persons within the United States from the threat of this harmful communicable disease, I have determined that it is in the interests of the United States to take action to restrict and suspend the entry into the United States, as immigrants or nonimmigrants, of all aliens who were physically present within the Schengen Area during the 14-day period preceding their entry or attempted entry into the United States.

A plane with US citizens can fly from EU to US, they aren't "aliens".

bennett123 · Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:41 pm

The question on many of these flights, is twofold;

1. Will that leave enough passengers to make it viable.
2. Will the crew be put into 14 days quarantine on arrival.

mxaxai · Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:49 pm

Revelation wrote:
Etheereal wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:
This is not true.

Check again

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential ... ronavirus/

Ok:

Given the importance of protecting persons within the United States from the threat of this harmful communicable disease, I have determined that it is in the interests of the United States to take action to restrict and suspend the entry into the United States, as immigrants or nonimmigrants, of all aliens who were physically present within the Schengen Area during the 14-day period preceding their entry or attempted entry into the United States.

A plane with US citizens can fly from EU to US, they aren't "aliens".

Even further, passengers transiting in a European airport can fly to the US, since they have never actually entered the Schengen Area. For example, UK residents could travel to the USA via FRA or CDG.

On the other hand, any alien that happened to visit the Schengen area cannot enter the USA regardless of their nationality. For example, UK nationals that went skiing in Italy this week cannot enter the USA through any itinerary for the next 14 days; even if they would be taking a direct flight LHR-JFK.

OB1504 · Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:00 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
I guess the likes of Gate Goumet will be taking a hit around the world as well with less flights to cater for.

Ground handlers in general. Swissport is bleeding money right now.

Viper911 · Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:01 pm

RJ403 just executed a missed approach at BEY and now heading to LCA, does anyone has any idea if it is Corona related? weather seems normal for BEY.

https://fr24.com/RJA403/2429f529

Viper911

mxaxai · Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:02 pm

Looking at further travel restrictions:
The Czech Republic is closing their borders for nationals of virtually all western European countries including the UK (only Ireland and Portugal remain unaffected).

Slovakia closed their borders entirely for non-residents and is suspending all international air travel.

Saudi Arabia no longer allows visitors to arrive from the EU, Switzerland, India, Sudan and Ethiopia in addition to any prior restrictions. No mention of Schengen.

FRA is reporting a 40 % drop in passenger numbers for today.

As a side note: The UK just announced a 29 % increase in new cases since yesterday yet remains unaffected in many travel bans.

gatibosgru · Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:17 pm

Etheereal wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
All flights from Europe to the US are cancelled except for flights from the UK.

This is not true.

Check again

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential ... ronavirus/

Still not true, just restrictions for visitors from those countries, nothing about all european flights (minus UK) being cancelled.

Viper911 · Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:21 pm

Viper911 wrote:
RJ403 just executed a missed approach at BEY and now heading to LCA, does anyone has any idea if it is Corona related? weather seems normal for BEY.

https://fr24.com/RJA403/2429f529

Viper911

Same trajectory is followed by MEA307, MEA419 and RAM247, all diverting to LCA. Nothing in the news or notams so far.

Viper911

MIflyer12 · Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:26 pm

32andBelow wrote:
crjflyboy wrote:
On a DL flight right now from PBI to ATL ... ONLY 8 PASSENGERS ON A 737 - 900 .... do not see how the airlines can survive much longer without federal help ... PBI was deader than Christmas day ... grim

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL ... /KPBI/KATL

They need to cut capacity.

Fuel isn't the biggest expense - people are. Fuel represented 21.1% of DL's operating expense last year.

Revelation · Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:28 pm

Bloomberg ( https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... deliveries ) tells us:

The top customer for Airbus SE’s A380 double-decker jetliner is seeking to delay delivery of the last handful of orders, as the coronavirus pandemic eviscerates demand for flight.

Dubai’s Emirates, the world’s largest long-haul airline, still plans to take the eight remaining A380s and is discussing the timing of the handovers with Airbus, the people said, according to people familiar with the matter.

I wonder how charitable Airbus will be towards Emirates?

Also I think it's safe to presume EK will want to defer 779, but time will tell.

Low demand for travel prompted the The Middle Eastern carrier to ground more than 20 Airbus A380 planes, according to a person familiar withe the matter, adding that the airline plans to ground more jets.

Yikes!

ShinyAndChrome · Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:44 pm

Didn't see this posted yet in the earlier thread: UA is opening a $2 billion line of credit to help weather through this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reu ... SKBN20Z1VP

smolt · Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:53 pm

Annoying that the Japan Post here stopped accepting parcels bound for CHINA due to 85% of flight in between having been cancelled. A significant portion of parcels are carried in the belly space of passenger aircraft. On my business I import a good amount of materials from China. Though they are of the opossite direction, how does it affect‍?

smokeybandit · Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:08 pm

Pretty much all American pro sports are postponed for at least a few weeks. Just about all college sports are canceled. Obviously March Madness requires a lot of air travel, both for fans and teams. The College World Series is also another big one.

dcajet · Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:46 pm

Argentina just announced a ban on flights from the US, Europe, Iran, China & South Korea for 30 days. All arrivals from those countries (via a connecting point, I guess) whether Argentinian nationals or foreigners will be quarantined for 14 days.

https://www.clarin.com/politica/coronav ... gI9gc.html

gatibosgru · Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:50 pm

Truly feel for all employees in the travel industry.

Gulfstream500 · Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:10 pm

I presume that Icelandair is being impacted by this travel restriction due to the Coronavirus a lot more than the mainland Europe carriers, as a large part of their business model is connecting passengers from the US and Canada to Europe. And, Iceland is part of the Schengen Area, so going to Iceland is also restricted as well.

dcajet · Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:13 pm

panamair wrote:
FlyingHonu001 wrote:
Anyone travelling DL outbound/inbound to AMS, the following routes will be suspended after Friday

DL 410/411 MCO
DL 56/57 SLC
DL 178/179 PDX

This is due to the fact that these US gateways are not on the list of 11 CDC-approved ones for entry with enhanced checks. So Delta has to suspend all TATL flights from SLC, PDX, MCO, IND, CVG and RDU starting tomorrow.

What about other airports such as MSY, CLT, PHX, AUS, DEN, SAN, PIT, CHS, MSP, SJC, etc.? I know they don't apply to Delta (other than MSP).

hpff · Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:20 pm

dcajet wrote:
What about other airports such as MSY, CLT, PHX, AUS, DEN, SAN, PIT, CHS, MSP, SJC, etc.? I know they don't apply to Delta (other than MSP).

The only Schengen flight to PHX is Condor, which wouldn't start until April 4 in a normal world. The BA flight is still on as of now.

Norwegian, Icelandair and Lufthansa have cancelled DEN.

I would assume any Schengen-area flights from these airports will be cancelled, while BA and maybe Aer Lingus will still go ahead at least for now.

hvusslax · Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:20 pm

Gulfstream500 wrote:
I presume that Icelandair is being impacted by this travel restriction due to the Coronavirus a lot more than the mainland Europe carriers, as a large part of their business model is connecting passengers from the US and Canada to Europe. And, Iceland is part of the Schengen Area, so going to Iceland is also restricted as well.

One advantage over other major EU/EEA airlines however is that the majority of passengers on most of Icelandair's US routes are US citizens and thus excluded from the ban. They should be able to keep some US routes going all through this period.

cjg225 · Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:40 pm

Got a call from my global account rep for a top 3 freight forwarder earlier. He said they're being told by some airlines that they will continue running their passenger aircraft with no passengers TATL and just fill up with cargo at premium prices to try to offset fixed costs.

As a company with a lot of pharmaceuticals (WIP and FG) moving TATL, that would be stupendous for us. We're willing to pay the prices; we just need legit options to move cargo.

China wasn't really an issue for us in the US (it was for my European colleagues). We had basically no real issues getting cargo TPAC; heck on one lane we aren't even paying above our normal contracted rate (CA JFK-PEK). But this... this is no bueno for us. My entire day has been a nightmare of trying to figure out what we even need to request in terms of BSAs, part charters, full charters, etc.

If charters were running as high as $800k one-way on the TPAC before last night, this move is going to drive one-way charters on the TATL north of $2 mil, I'd bet.

B757rocket · Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:00 pm

Trump mulling 30 day travel ban to Washington state and California

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-consid ... 27351.html

scbriml · Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:15 pm

B757rocket wrote:
Trump mulling 30 day travel ban to Washington state and California

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-consid ... 27351.html

Too late to stop the spread.

JannEejit · Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:18 pm

Gulfstream500 wrote:
I presume that Icelandair is being impacted by this travel restriction due to the Coronavirus a lot more than the mainland Europe carriers, as a large part of their business model is connecting passengers from the US and Canada to Europe. And, Iceland is part of the Schengen Area, so going to Iceland is also restricted as well.

Icelandair relocated it's entire operation to Glasgow during the "unpronounceable" volcano eruption mayhem a few years ago. Could they do that again ? Would that be enough to get them round the Shengen Area ruling ?

Vasu · Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:24 pm

On 4th April I’m due to fly LHR-FRA-PHX with Lufthansa and Condor. At the moment my original LHR to FRA has been cancelled and I’ve been moved to another flight (actually slightly more convenient), and the FRA to PHX Condor flight is still claiming to be operating.

If the Condor flight to PHX still goes ahead, would we be able to transit through FRA en route? We would technically not enter Germany... I have read contradictory claims in different places. Can anyone help?

Or is Condor likely to cancel FRA to PHX anyway?

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