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SpaceshipDC10
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Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:24 am

Since routes are being suspended which part of the fleet will be parked and where?

https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/hom ... ravel.html
 
716131
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:29 am

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Since routes are being suspended which part of the fleet will be parked and where?

https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/hom ... ravel.html

Apart from its troubled 737 MAX, I see most of its long haul fleet will likely be grounded as well - mostly 787, 777? Also, Will AC accelerate E190 and 767 retirement as well?
If it's not Boeing, I'm not going!
 
beechnut
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:58 am

Possibly some early retirements for older A320s as well. Expect more suspensions as Canada has closed its borders to all but the US.
 
Salomon
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:34 am

What are the chances of the Air Transat acquisition aborting? Stock market seems to think it’s not gonna happen
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SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:27 am

Don't know whether it's related but it seems that A333 C-GFUR has not returned to service since it flew back from Singapore at the end of February and landed at YYZ.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:02 am

Salomon wrote:
What are the chances of the Air Transat acquisition aborting? Stock market seems to think it’s not gonna happen


At this point TS’ survival probably hinges on it happening. AC have at least 6 billion in unrestricted liquidity.
 
alexdelzotto
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 2:07 am

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Don't know whether it's related but it seems that A333 C-GFUR has not returned to service since it flew back from Singapore at the end of February and landed at YYZ.


No point flying an aircraft that is in a different configuration then the other 330s.

It would just be more of a headache for operations/gate agents to have to reprint boarding passes and re seat everyone.
 
skipness1E
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:15 am

alexdelzotto wrote:
SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
Don't know whether it's related but it seems that A333 C-GFUR has not returned to service since it flew back from Singapore at the end of February and landed at YYZ.


No point flying an aircraft that is in a different configuration then the other 330s.

It would just be more of a headache for operations/gate agents to have to reprint boarding passes and re seat everyone.

That's why you dedicate the aircraft to one route at first, you don't just park it ! These are not BAU times though and C-GFUR is looking shiney and ready to go outside the AC hangar next to T3 at YYZ, it's not in storage per se.
 
sixtyseven
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:42 am

If you are talking about planes being parked due to this crises I would predict the following.

All EMJ, mainline 767, unconfigured 330. And all 777. Once the repatriation is (mostly)complete they would likely continue a domestic operation. Skeleton transborder, Caribbean, and all but cease European flying.

I would suggest there will be more once things evolve. Also booking momentum is gone. And if this thing ended tomorrow it would take months not weeks to produce a demand to justify the return of metal.

This thing is beyond massive. And without huge government support airlines globally will vanish.

The timeline for this would be fluid, and I’ve never hoped to be completely wrong before. Good luck to all.
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AC_B777
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:55 pm

The St. John's Airport Authority has given AC approval to park up to 16 a/c here in YYT. I haven't heard officially what a/c will be stored here or if there will be any at all. I was talking to one of our Aircraft techs yesterday and he told me there could be some A330's parked here, but it hadn't been confirmed.
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rlwynn
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:42 pm

Not Air Canada but Canada sent a 737-200 to Morocco to pick up Canadians today.
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Dominion301
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:07 pm

rlwynn wrote:
Not Air Canada but Canada sent a 737-200 to Morocco to pick up Canadians today.


As in Nolinor? That'll be quite the multi-stop journey...but those stuck will just be happy to be heading home.
 
rlwynn
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:31 pm

Yes, Nolinor. Canada, Iceland, Shannon, Cassablanca. The article is only in German. And it was an x Royal Air Moroc plane from 1983.
I can drive faster than you
 
beechnut
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:29 pm

I read that Air Canada would be flying the Morocco repatriation charter. I can't imagine if they are that they'd sub-charter a 737-200 from Nolinor???

As for parking aircraft, AC will be flying a very limited international schedule to LHR, CDG, FRA, HKG, DEL, and NRT. I'm guessing they'll use 77Ws for those. Even though they will likely be impossible to fill with pax, they likely can carry way more cargo with them than any other aircraft in their fleet and that means not only $$$ but the capacity to carry strategic materials in these tough times (medicine, medical equipment, etc.)

I'm guessing there will be a lot of flying consolidated, so you might find a few A330s doing transcontinental, maybe the odd 787, and the best of the narrowbodies doing the rest. I expect to see remaining mainline 767s parked indefinitely, all older 319s and 320s parked and/or retired, and the 4 current A220s and A321s picking up the slack, with the remaining A220s on order being deferred until better times. The Embraers likely will be all retired. So my guess is that it's mainly the 787s that will end up parked until sunnier skies return, which will extend their lives.

It would also not surprise me if AC took the opportunity to cancel all remaining undelivered MAXs, and when good times return, opting for a A321NEO/LR/XLR mix instead.

Those are my prognostications! As I tell my kids, my advice is free, and you get what you pay for...

Beech
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:32 pm

rlwynn wrote:
Not Air Canada but Canada sent a 737-200 to Morocco to pick up Canadians today.


YMX-YYR-KEF-SNN-CMN flown by C-GNLN, it's a -200C.

https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/ ... ion/rqnx6r
 
beechnut
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:36 pm

I'm skeptical it's Nolinor. This news item from today suggests it will be a 77W, high-density version:

https://canadianaviationnews.wordpress. ... ir-canada/
 
asuflyer
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:43 pm

beechnut wrote:
I'm skeptical it's Nolinor. This news item from today suggests it will be a 77W, high-density version:

https://canadianaviationnews.wordpress. ... ir-canada/


Nolinor already operated a charter. There will be many more repatriation flights to come not limited to Morocco.
 
YYZLGA
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:35 pm

Are they taking more precautions on these repatriation flights? Is everyone masked, are they actually checking for symptoms, etc.? A friend was on a flight home the other day and there were unmasked coughers galore. Nobody asked about symptoms until they got to Canada.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:12 pm

beechnut wrote:
I'm skeptical it's Nolinor. This news item from today suggests it will be a 77W, high-density version:

https://canadianaviationnews.wordpress. ... ir-canada/


77W C-FIVX was flown as AC7066 YYZ-YHZ yesterday, and today it's on its way as AC7050 YHZ-CMN. Any reason for the Halifax stop?

Currently, 77W C-FNNU and C-FITW have been ferried to YMX March 20th and 19th respectively, while C-FNNQ is at SIN since March 8th.

77L C-FIUJ was flown HND-SIN March 16th a couple of days after operating AC1.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:13 pm

AC have the domestic and international portions of their April schedule live. I found the following aircraft types in service:

Mainline
E90 - mostly on YYZ-YOW, but on a few others
220 - all flights touch YUL
319
320
321
333 - including 1x YYZ-YHZ - lobster hauler?
789
77W

Rouge
319 - to YQT and YQM from YYZ

Express
DH1 - yep still found it active in Alberta, albeit barely
DH3 - all in the East
DH4
CR2
CR9

So no 763s (both mainline and Rouge), 788s, 77Ls anywhere that I can see. I would disregard transborder at this point. E75s show up on transborder...which is where they mostly are anyways. I would imagine some E75 flying will continue.

Lots of Express towns suspended. YLW keeps mainline 1x 320 to YVR, while YQB-YYZ has a mainline E90 or 320 on some days.
 
Whiteguy
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:47 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
AC have the domestic and international portions of their April schedule live. I found the following aircraft types in service:

Mainline
E90 - mostly on YYZ-YOW, but on a few others
220 - all flights touch YUL
319
320
321
333 - including 1x YYZ-YHZ - lobster hauler?
789
77W

Rouge
319 - to YQT and YQM from YYZ

Express
DH1 - yep still found it active in Alberta, albeit barely
DH3 - all in the East
DH4
CR2
CR9

So no 763s (both mainline and Rouge), 788s, 77Ls anywhere that I can see. I would disregard transborder at this point. E75s show up on transborder...which is where they mostly are anyways. I would imagine some E75 flying will continue.

Lots of Express towns suspended. YLW keeps mainline 1x 320 to YVR, while YQB-YYZ has a mainline E90 or 320 on some days.


I would think all Rouge flying will disappear, all FAs are being laid off and Rouge shut down.
 
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longhauler
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:59 pm

Whiteguy wrote:
I would think all Rouge flying will disappear, all FAs are being laid off and Rouge shut down.


That is correct. There will be no Rouge flying in April at all. Rouge routes will be flown by mainline flights.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:33 pm

longhauler wrote:
There will be no Rouge flying in April at all. Rouge routes will be flown by mainline flights.


That's what one can call a big change in business. I wonder how the industry around the world will look once the virus get overcome or at least seriously diminished.
 
kameleonten
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:03 pm

beechnut wrote:
I'm skeptical it's Nolinor. This news item from today suggests it will be a 77W, high-density version:

https://canadianaviationnews.wordpress. ... ir-canada/


It was Nolinor: https://simpleflying.com/canada-737-rescue/

Why would Canada send an old 737 on a multi stop journey rather than take one of the probably multiple available Air Canada or Westjet long haul aircraft?? Even with additional crew and fuel, this should be a no brainer.
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:51 pm

Some of The E175s seem to be headed to Muskoka YQA for storage... 4? there in the past 48 hours all as KV7114, 7116 or 7118.

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Whiteguy
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:44 pm

kameleonten wrote:
beechnut wrote:
I'm skeptical it's Nolinor. This news item from today suggests it will be a 77W, high-density version:

https://canadianaviationnews.wordpress. ... ir-canada/


It was Nolinor: https://simpleflying.com/canada-737-rescue/

Why would Canada send an old 737 on a multi stop journey rather than take one of the probably multiple available Air Canada or Westjet long haul aircraft?? Even with additional crew and fuel, this should be a no brainer.


The Norlinor flight was a different flight. An AC B777 is being used...
 
dr1980
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:48 pm

Any idea if the inactive aircraft are being ferried to the desert or if they simply being placed throughout Air Canada’s network?

I’d also be interested in knowing why the 732 charter...that would be a long, noisy ride home, even for an avgeek (I guess depending how dedicated you are)
Dave/CYHZ
 
jimbo737
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:11 pm

When cash preservation is the order of the day, why would AC park the lowest cost element of its operation, (Rouge, with all those “free airplanes”), and keep the high cost operation active?
 
Whiteguy
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:51 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
When cash preservation is the order of the day, why would AC park the lowest cost element of its operation, (Rouge, with all those “free airplanes”), and keep the high cost operation active?


Because the majority of the Rouge operation is north south flying, I’m sure they done a cost assessment of the whole operation overall.

Plus cargo operations and capacity
Last edited by Whiteguy on Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:52 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
When cash preservation is the order of the day, why would AC park the lowest cost element of its operation, (Rouge, with all those “free airplanes”), and keep the high cost operation active?


My guess would be crew seniority and fleet simplicity. There are thousands of mainline crew more senior than the most senior Rouge F/As. I’d imagine junior mainline staff will be on temporary furlough too.

When loads are probably going to be under 40%, Rouge won’t be of much benefit cost-wise. Heck, AC could theoretically operate most A220, 319 and 320 flights with only 2 F/As onboard as few of these flights will have > 100 pax on them.
 
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longhauler
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:24 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
When cash preservation is the order of the day, why would AC park the lowest cost element of its operation, (Rouge, with all those “free airplanes”), and keep the high cost operation active?

The same reason that Sunwing and Air Transat are shutting down completely .... the low yield, leisure market simply has disappeared.

Internally, the move makes sense. Fly three class premium wide bodies around, half full, filled to the gunwales with freight, of which there is a lot. By the same stroke though, parking “free airplanes” makes sense too.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
yulexpansion
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:36 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
When cash preservation is the order of the day, why would AC park the lowest cost element of its operation, (Rouge, with all those “free airplanes”), and keep the high cost operation active?


Jimbo, maybe you're not aware, but 767s and old narrowbodies are expensive to operate in terms of maintenance, fuel. The idea is to fly your most efficient assets, which are 787s, 220s.
 
jimbo737
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:39 pm

If keeping a limited sched operating at the lowest possible cost is the name of the game, as it is at every airline on the planet these days, then surely substituting Rouge’s simple operation, with somewhat juniority wages in the back end, more efficient contracts for the front end crew and the advantage of all those old, yet “free” airplanes flying on today’s cheap jet fuel would seem to make the most sense. Airplanes can fly anywhere, and most of Rouge’s flying is based at YYZ anyway, AC’s core hub.

Why continue on with high cost aircraft and the highest cost crews with as many as 3 classes of service in these circumstances? What’s the point?

A friend sent me a photo of the baggage belts at ORD this morning at about 11am local. There was one guy there. I’d post the pic if I could. It was surreal. Only he and his deadheading co pilot were in J. 15 in the rest of the aircraft.

The point is, there’s no demand for premium class. So why operate it and incur the expense of provisioning and crewing for it when you’ve got Rouge there that can do what currently needs to be done, with a nice mixed fleet of 40 narrow bodies and 25 WB’s, which together with some Jazz aircraft, is probably just about all that will be necessary in a few weeks as things drag to a halt, hopefully for a very short time for ALL involved.

Or is it that Rouge, in fact, may not exactly be as low cost as previously advertised?

If that is the case, and given what the smartest run airline on the planet has already conceded once this mess is over and done with, will Rouge be back, or simply folded into the core operation?

Good luck to all. We’ve never been in a mud puddle as deep as this one.
 
runway23
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:49 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
The point is, there’s no demand for premium class. So why operate it and incur the expense of provisioning and crewing for it when you’ve got Rouge there that can do what currently needs to be done, with a nice mixed fleet of 40 narrow bodies and 25 WB’s, which together with some Jazz aircraft, is probably just about all that will be necessary in a few weeks as things drag to a halt, hopefully for a very short time for ALL involved.

Or is it that Rouge, in fact, may not exactly be as low cost as previously advertised?

If that is the case, and given what the smartest run airline on the planet has already conceded once this mess is over and done with, will Rouge be back, or simply folded into the core operation?


77W/787/333 carry more freight than the 763 and are more versatile. The 763s are also owned so have little cost to be parked.

It's growingly clear that rouge won't survive this crisis, their Airbus fleet will transition back to mainline and the 737Max will probably never fly again for AC.

Where exactly TS fits into AC at this point is questionable and I guess will depend on how long this crisis lasts.
 
beechnut
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:19 am

runway23 wrote:

Where exactly TS fits into AC at this point is questionable and I guess will depend on how long this crisis lasts.


Given that TS's share price is way below the AC offer, it would seem to be a wiser strategy to let TS fail and pick the remaining meat off the carcass in the form of their best aircraft (mostly: the A321LRs). That, plus the Rouge A321s, would effectively kill off the MAX (good riddance!) at bargain prices.

Rouge: 14 A321s and 5 A320s that could be transferred over. The A320s are much newer than AC's, and the A321s are all late-build CEOs.
TS: 5 A321s plus 6 A321LRs (3 delivered, 3 on order). The LRs could do the transatlantic routes that the MAX were supposed to do.

That's 25 possible A321s for mainline, plus 5 A320s (one is on order, used Mexican aircraft). That's enough to retire the oldest A320s and replace the MAX. With the A220s coming on board, probably no need for the A319s or Embraers. I think this crisis will result in an overall global capacity reduction until growth rates return to normal. Good opportunity for housecleaning.

Gee, AC has 24 grounded 737MAX on the property, plus a bunch undelivered. There's probably little appetite for new orders for quite some time after this crisis is over so moving the Rouge birds to Mainline and picking up the Transat aircraft at bargain prices would seem like the bargain of the century. I also think the MAX career at Air Canada will be mercifully short. Maybe if the RTS happens, AC could peddle them off to WestJet or Sunwing.

Beech
 
Thomaas
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:22 am

jimbo737 wrote:
If keeping a limited sched operating at the lowest possible cost is the name of the game, as it is at every airline on the planet these days, then surely substituting Rouge’s simple operation, with somewhat juniority wages in the back end, more efficient contracts for the front end crew and the advantage of all those old, yet “free” airplanes flying on today’s cheap jet fuel would seem to make the most sense. Airplanes can fly anywhere, and most of Rouge’s flying is based at YYZ anyway, AC’s core hub.

Why continue on with high cost aircraft and the highest cost crews with as many as 3 classes of service in these circumstances? What’s the point?

A friend sent me a photo of the baggage belts at ORD this morning at about 11am local. There was one guy there. I’d post the pic if I could. It was surreal. Only he and his deadheading co pilot were in J. 15 in the rest of the aircraft.

The point is, there’s no demand for premium class. So why operate it and incur the expense of provisioning and crewing for it when you’ve got Rouge there that can do what currently needs to be done, with a nice mixed fleet of 40 narrow bodies and 25 WB’s, which together with some Jazz aircraft, is probably just about all that will be necessary in a few weeks as things drag to a halt, hopefully for a very short time for ALL involved.

Or is it that Rouge, in fact, may not exactly be as low cost as previously advertised?

If that is the case, and given what the smartest run airline on the planet has already conceded once this mess is over and done with, will Rouge be back, or simply folded into the core operation?

Good luck to all. We’ve never been in a mud puddle as deep as this one.

As mentioned earlier, you have to furlough flight attendants by order of seniority, meaning the company couldn't just keep Rouge flying while laying off all of AC's FAs. Air Canada has bases in YUL, YYZ, and YVR for pilots, add in YYC for flight attendants, giving it much greater scheduling flexibility to operate both domestic and international flights as opposed to Rouge's YUL and YYZ bases. The cost differential doesn't matter when you have to pay aircraft leases and partially pay pilots, you might as well fly your most efficient aircraft and ground the rest. You'll notice that all TATL and TPAC flying is on the 787-9 for the month of April. Interestingly they have chosen to operate the 97-seat E190s into lots of US markets, which likely indicates they expect continued depressed demand on that front. Why send out 282-seat 767s and 132-seat A319s when you won't be able to fill them anyways?
 
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longhauler
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:52 am

jimbo737 wrote:

The point is, there’s no demand for premium class. So why operate it and incur the expense of provisioning and crewing for it.


Westjet currently may not be able to attract premium cabin passengers, but Air Canada doesn’t appear to have any problems there.

Out of interest, I looked at loads over the next two weeks and well into April, and frankly was rather surprised. It seems that J and W cabins are almost full on most long trans con domestic flights. US flights are a disaster in Y but J to destinations like LAX and SFO are still pretty strong.

Same thing with Europe. Stronger in J and W than Y. Not enough to pay the bills, but still reasonable. On reflection though, it’s not really a surprise. With discretionary and leisure travel halted, only the business traveller is left. Perhaps corporate policy is changing allowing more premium cabin travel for social distancing.

It appears that empty “freight” flights are being flown as well, as cargo demand remains very strong.

All this in mind therefore, it seems the Rouge configuration would not be suitable at all. Apparently those smarter than me agree.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
Dominion301
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:50 am

longhauler wrote:
jimbo737 wrote:

The point is, there’s no demand for premium class. So why operate it and incur the expense of provisioning and crewing for it.


Westjet currently may not be able to attract premium cabin passengers, but Air Canada doesn’t appear to have any problems there.

Out of interest, I looked at loads over the next two weeks and well into April, and frankly was rather surprised. It seems that J and W cabins are almost full on most long trans con domestic flights. US flights are a disaster in Y but J to destinations like LAX and SFO are still pretty strong.

Same thing with Europe. Stronger in J and W than Y. Not enough to pay the bills, but still reasonable. On reflection though, it’s not really a surprise. With discretionary and leisure travel halted, only the business traveller is left. Perhaps corporate policy is changing allowing more premium cabin travel for social distancing.

It appears that empty “freight” flights are being flown as well, as cargo demand remains very strong.

All this in mind therefore, it seems the Rouge configuration would not be suitable at all. Apparently those smarter than me agree.


What impact will the travel ban to/from the USA for everything but “essential” travel have on AC’s skeletal remaining transborder ops? Additional reductions? Cargo only? UA are stopping all transborder on April 1. Not sure yet what DL and AA are doing.

FWIW, the 763 mainline is showing up in April on YYZ to LAX & SFO. Take that with a huge grain of salt though.
 
Airlinerdude
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:54 am

longhauler wrote:
jimbo737 wrote:

The point is, there’s no demand for premium class. So why operate it and incur the expense of provisioning and crewing for it.


Westjet currently may not be able to attract premium cabin passengers, but Air Canada doesn’t appear to have any problems there.

Out of interest, I looked at loads over the next two weeks and well into April, and frankly was rather surprised. It seems that J and W cabins are almost full on most long trans con domestic flights. US flights are a disaster in Y but J to destinations like LAX and SFO are still pretty strong.

Same thing with Europe. Stronger in J and W than Y. Not enough to pay the bills, but still reasonable. On reflection though, it’s not really a surprise. With discretionary and leisure travel halted, only the business traveller is left. Perhaps corporate policy is changing allowing more premium cabin travel for social distancing.


I also have access to AC loads and I can attest to the exact opposite. Very little J traffic on any of the major transcon routes that I spot checked past April 1. YYZ/YVR is about the one exception. What's left of the transatlantic network is abysmal too. Very very little J traffic.

Past about April 24th is when you start to see things recover. That said, I also have a personal trip on April 25th and a work trip shortly thereafter. I'm still waiting to decide on whether to go ahead with these trips, so I imagine many others are in the same boat as me.

Really sad to see things in this state.
 
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longhauler
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:21 pm

Airlinerdude wrote:

I also have access to AC loads and I can attest to the exact opposite.

Past about April 24th is when you start to see things recover. That said, I also have a personal trip on April 25th and a work trip shortly thereafter. I'm still waiting to decide on whether to go ahead with these trips, so I imagine many others are in the same boat as me.

It really depends at what data one is looking. While looking at inventory sold may be accurate the day of, or possibly a couple days in advance, as you get further and further away from the departure date, it becomes less accurate.

I wasn’t looking at seats open, as opposed to advanced bookings. Namely, how much confidence do you place in a Basic Economy booking made 8 months ago, against a J or W booking made yesterday. What the data are indicating is that new bookings are favouring premium cabins. That is hard to tell when simply looking at open seats.

You mention April 24th as a “recovery”. In fact, that was the original cut off date Air Canada was allowing for changes or cancellations without penalty. It’s not a surprise therefore that open seats are less after that date .... but not likely accurate. That is why you see some flights 40 oversold in Economy, there is not a lot of confidence in those bookings.

As an employee trying to non-rev, it would be impossible to gauge. But, looking at advanced booking and trending data, it makes sense why flights and equipment are planned.
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Thenoflyzone
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:13 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:

77W C-FIVX was flown as AC7066 YYZ-YHZ yesterday, and today it's on its way as AC7050 YHZ-CMN. Any reason for the Halifax stop?.


Just a guess here, but it might be to limit the total flight time, especially for cabin crew, which most likely operated both outbound and inbound flights. There were also 4 pilots on board, based on the twitter pic of the crew. In/out of CMN, no crew left behind.

https://twitter.com/AirCanada/status/12 ... 16/photo/1
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yzfElite
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:37 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
beechnut wrote:
I'm skeptical it's Nolinor. This news item from today suggests it will be a 77W, high-density version:

https://canadianaviationnews.wordpress. ... ir-canada/


77W C-FIVX was flown as AC7066 YYZ-YHZ yesterday, and today it's on its way as AC7050 YHZ-CMN. Any reason for the Halifax stop?

Currently, 77W C-FNNU and C-FITW have been ferried to YMX March 20th and 19th respectively, while C-FNNQ is at SIN since March 8th.

77L C-FIUJ was flown HND-SIN March 16th a couple of days after operating AC1.


I suspect YHZ has a huge amount of seafood now stuck there unable to get to Europe and likely lucrative enough to warrant a stop to pick it up.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:38 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
Just a guess here, but it might be to limit the total flight time, especially for cabin crew, which most likely operated both outbound and inbound flights. There were also 4 pilots on board, based on the twitter pic of the crew. In/out of CMN, no crew left behind.


Oh yes, that could be a good guess indeed if no one was left behind. Flight time to CMN was 5:07, then 3:42 on the ground and 7:41 to YUL. That's more than 16 hours.

Tomorrow, there's another flight to CMN from YHZ.
 
beechnut
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:02 pm

jimbo737 wrote:
Or is it that Rouge, in fact, may not exactly be as low cost as previously advertised?


If you've got paid-for assets that you can park for basically parking fees and the cost of pickling the ship until better times, and assets that you still are paying down capital or lease costs, which makes more sense to operate? ISTM you want the assets you're paying for working their tails off in order to feed the creditors and hopefully keep some cash flowing. Add to that that they're newer and more efficient to operate than old 767s, *and* have more cargo capacity (especially the 777Ws huge belly) that can help offset the lack of passengers, then keeping mainline alive while pickling Rouge makes perfect sense.

Moreover Rouge's A319s, 320s and 321s don't cost much more to operate than AC's, except for the Rouge 320s and 321s being newer and probably needing less Mx. So it might make sense to park the older ones and transfer Rouge's newer ones over to mainline. The beancounters will have sorted all this out. You can be sure AC beancounters have likely figured out how to lose the least money possible in this crisis.

Beech
 
Airlinerdude
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:36 pm

longhauler wrote:
It really depends at what data one is looking. While looking at inventory sold may be accurate the day of, or possibly a couple days in advance, as you get further and further away from the departure date, it becomes less accurate.


longhauler wrote:
Out of interest, I looked at loads over the next two weeks and well into April, and frankly was rather surprised. It seems that J and W cabins are almost full on most long trans con domestic flights. US flights are a disaster in Y but J to destinations like LAX and SFO are still pretty strong.


Just like you I was looking at loads over the next two weeks.

Your statement was factually incorrect and misleading to readers here. No route in the AC network has J and W cabins 'almost full' beyond April 1. The exact opposite is true, flights are nearly empty in J and W on the routes I spot checked (including your LAX/SFO examples). I'll happily be corrected if you provide some routes you think are 'almost full' in J/W.
 
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longhauler
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:50 pm

Airlinerdude wrote:
Just like you I was looking at loads over the next two weeks.

Actually I wasn’t looking at the loads. I was looking at advanced bookings and cancellation data. I said “loads” as it would be difficult to describe the data I was using.

While looking at employee allowable information only give a snapshot part of the picture. I was looking at the whole picture.

While it was not my intent “to mislead the readers”, (who I am guessing don’t really give a rat’s ass), I was answering the message thread subject wondering why Air Canada chose to not fly Rouge next month. With advanced bookings trending toward premium cabins and strong cargo demand, it makes sense to use primarily the 787.

As noted, other than Rouge, all types in the fleet though, continue to be used.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
Airlinerdude
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:13 pm

longhauler wrote:
Actually I wasn’t looking at the loads. I was looking at advanced bookings and cancellation data. I said “loads” as it would be difficult to describe the data I was using.


You mean the same bookings that (if booked before March 31) can be cancelled without penalty? Sure, business travellers will still book because they're not the ones paying for it, their companies are! That doesn't mean they won't cancel closer to the date and use their credit for future travel when the situation improves.

Even my own anecdote, I have travel booked on and April 25th I still haven't cancelled because I'm waiting to see how the situation progresses.

While it was not my intent “to mislead the readers”, (who I am guessing don’t really give a rat’s ass), I was answering the message thread subject wondering why Air Canada chose to not fly Rouge next month. With advanced bookings trending toward premium cabins and strong cargo demand, it makes sense to use primarily the 787.

As noted, other than Rouge, all types in the fleet though, continue to be used.


Your point was to try and contradict Jimbo's very correct argument that there was no demand for premium class. Both you and I can see that his argument is true yet you're trying to mislead with a factually incorrect statement.

jimbo737 wrote:
The point is, there’s no demand for premium class. So why operate it and incur the expense of provisioning and crewing for it.


longhauler wrote:
Westjet currently may not be able to attract premium cabin passengers, but Air Canada doesn’t appear to have any problems there.
 
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longhauler
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:18 pm

Wow. I give up.

Sometimes the Anal Alices on this site make it not worth the effort. It’s probably why most of the “old guard” no longer frequent this site.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:21 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
AC have the domestic and international portions of their April schedule live. I found the following aircraft types in service:

Mainline
E90 - mostly on YYZ-YOW, but on a few others
220 - all flights touch YUL
319
320
321
333 - including 1x YYZ-YHZ - lobster hauler?
789
77W

Rouge
319 - to YQT and YQM from YYZ

Express
DH1 - yep still found it active in Alberta, albeit barely
DH3 - all in the East
DH4
CR2
CR9

So no 763s (both mainline and Rouge), 788s, 77Ls anywhere that I can see. I would disregard transborder at this point. E75s show up on transborder...which is where they mostly are anyways. I would imagine some E75 flying will continue.

Lots of Express towns suspended. YLW keeps mainline 1x 320 to YVR, while YQB-YYZ has a mainline E90 or 320 on some days.


I would expect the 77W and possibly 789 to also be doing some belly cargo only flights. Down in the states, American operates its first cargo-only flight in 36 years using a B77W a few days ago. In Canada, I would expect a few YVR-YUL or YVR-YYZ cargo runs on the B77W, along with some cargo-only flights to Asia. With no passengers, one can load up on the cargo capacity. (That said, for YUL, it may make more sense for an A333 to do that cargo run if there's a YUL-YVR run.)
 
Dominion301
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Re: Which Air Canada's aircraft are being parked?

Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:14 pm

Airlinerdude wrote:
longhauler wrote:
Actually I wasn’t looking at the loads. I was looking at advanced bookings and cancellation data. I said “loads” as it would be difficult to describe the data I was using.


You mean the same bookings that (if booked before March 31) can be cancelled without penalty? Sure, business travellers will still book because they're not the ones paying for it, their companies are! That doesn't mean they won't cancel closer to the date and use their credit for future travel when the situation improves.

Even my own anecdote, I have travel booked on and April 25th I still haven't cancelled because I'm waiting to see how the situation progresses.

While it was not my intent “to mislead the readers”, (who I am guessing don’t really give a rat’s ass), I was answering the message thread subject wondering why Air Canada chose to not fly Rouge next month. With advanced bookings trending toward premium cabins and strong cargo demand, it makes sense to use primarily the 787.

As noted, other than Rouge, all types in the fleet though, continue to be used.


Your point was to try and contradict Jimbo's very correct argument that there was no demand for premium class. Both you and I can see that his argument is true yet you're trying to mislead with a factually incorrect statement.

jimbo737 wrote:
The point is, there’s no demand for premium class. So why operate it and incur the expense of provisioning and crewing for it.


longhauler wrote:
Westjet currently may not be able to attract premium cabin passengers, but Air Canada doesn’t appear to have any problems there.


Is it not enough that longhauler takes the time to share this info with everyone. BTW, longhauler, a lot of us on here appreciate it.

Now getting back on topic, with the additional trims AC made yesterday, I can no longer find any April DH1 ops in the online schedule.

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