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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:36 pm

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
Moosefire wrote:
panam330 wrote:
Flying jobs? Where on earth did they find those? Even regionals are contracting, and FX/UP pilots currently being hired have been in the pipeline since before Covid.


yes... flying jobs. In one case a 3 year AGR (military) role, the other was corporate. FedEx is hiring beyond the pool now, I can’t say anything for certain about UPS.


Corporate is a pretty steep step down from flying for a major though. I hope his furlough is short.


Depends, a close friend just turned down $300k+ at a corporate job with commuting paid.
 
Boof02671
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:22 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Alabama?.

One of the vendors AA uses is MZAR which is the former name of Singapore Technologies Brookley Field for heavy maintenance On widebodies and also had uses a vendor in Greensboro who was doing Oasis mods. And they use Aeroman in El Salvador for widebodies and narrowbodies

https://av-info.faa.gov/repairstation.a ... o=MZAR013L
 
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75driver
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:58 pm

The more I think about it the more I feel AA and the other airlines should not get another bailout. At least not in the manor it was given in March. The industry is going to be constricted for many years and there is no need to just kick the can of inevitability down the road. It’s just throwing away money.

That being said this is the only time where I’m not sure I favor the seniority system. We can’t eject all the people who will be carrying what’s left of the industry for the next 25-35 years. It’s probably time to think outside the box seeing as we’re in the middle of an unprecedented and generational event. Maybe sweeten early retirement split between Kompany and government funds for those with less than 10 years left and invest in education and retraining for the youngest. I don’t know how the age range shakes out at AA or other airlines but it would be foolish to lay off those who are fully trained and in their 30’s to 40’s when they still have decades to work. At the same time those younger can be retrained or educated into fields where demand and need exceed the aviation industry. Healthcare, Engineering, Business, etc.

I’m just spit balling here but we can’t keep on with indefinite bailouts only to face the same situation in 3,6,9,12 months, etc. Seems like a waste of money when investments can be made instead of charitable bailouts. Talks in Congress have stalled. The only place we’re seeing news about additional funds are coming from the White House. Meanwhile the days keep ticking down while our union and execs are standing their with hat in hand.
 
apodino
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:16 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Alabama?.

One of the vendors AA uses is MZAR which is the former name of Singapore Technologies Brookley Field for heavy maintenance On widebodies and also had uses a vendor in Greensboro who was doing Oasis mods. And they use Aeroman in El Salvador for widebodies and narrowbodies

https://av-info.faa.gov/repairstation.a ... o=MZAR013L

Given the fact that the 330 fleet is likely done, there is only narrowbody work being done at Aeroman, since the Boeing’s are handed in the US.
 
Aither
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:41 pm

The whole economy has to be bailed out.
If you don't in 6 months there wont be anything left of the economy, just chaos.
The bailed out is not only about money. It can be new working time agreements with more part time activities. It can be coupons or contracts freezes etc. And this for all the sectors of the economy.
Never trust the obvious
 
usairways787
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:07 pm

It would appear the cuts atleast on the fleet service side are much deeper than 2,225. People hired all the way back to 2011 received official RIF letters today. This is gonna hurt for years to come.

US787
 
Corpsnerd09
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:44 pm

usairways787 wrote:
It would appear the cuts atleast on the fleet service side are much deeper than 2,225. People hired all the way back to 2011 received official RIF letters today. This is gonna hurt for years to come.

US787


They aren't all furlough letters though, if you read closely you can see it says that they'll be given options tomorrow at noon Central Time and it is very generalized and vague language. Some will be layoff/furlough and the remainder will be FT to PT or offered to keep FT at another location. Likely if you received a WARN letter you may be laid off or not if you didn't receive one tomorrow you'll be looking at a PT or bump offer.
 
Boof02671
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:18 am

usairways787 wrote:
It would appear the cuts atleast on the fleet service side are much deeper than 2,225. People hired all the way back to 2011 received official RIF letters today. This is gonna hurt for years to come.

US787

No the cuts are 2225 it was originally going to be over 4,000.
 
F9Animal
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:52 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
F9Animal wrote:
LAXintl wrote:


Having worked for Doug from the America West days, I can tell you he is very pro worker. During the US Airways deal, US had laid off and outsourced alot of stations, including the station I was at. Parker stopped a majority of the outsourcing and brought the work back in house. With that said, I am certain this letter was difficult for him to put out.

To all my fellow brothers and sisters of AA, this is sobering and painful to see. If you are affected, I really hope a quick turnaround or another Cares package is given.

As for all my airline friends here all over the world... I am saying a prayer for you all every single day, and hoping for clear skies sooner than later. As a huge airliner fan, I can't tell you enough how much I appreciate each and every one of you.

Outsourcing occurred at US due to the two bankruptcies we did more work in-house than any other airline before the bankruptcies. And Doug is not worker friendly, he’d bring the work back from El Salvador, Brazil and Alabama instead of laying off American workers.


Okay, well I have been away from the airline since the US/AA merger, so things obviously could have changed alot regarding Parker. I'm just more or less giving my observations and experience when things were pretty darned good in terms of getting our jobs brought back. I mean, he could have easily just let the station remain outsourced, but instead brought the work back which was a huge morale booster for us.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
Boof02671
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:25 pm

F9Animal wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
F9Animal wrote:

Having worked for Doug from the America West days, I can tell you he is very pro worker. During the US Airways deal, US had laid off and outsourced alot of stations, including the station I was at. Parker stopped a majority of the outsourcing and brought the work back in house. With that said, I am certain this letter was difficult for him to put out.

To all my fellow brothers and sisters of AA, this is sobering and painful to see. If you are affected, I really hope a quick turnaround or another Cares package is given.

As for all my airline friends here all over the world... I am saying a prayer for you all every single day, and hoping for clear skies sooner than later. As a huge airliner fan, I can't tell you enough how much I appreciate each and every one of you.

Outsourcing occurred at US due to the two bankruptcies we did more work in-house than any other airline before the bankruptcies. And Doug is not worker friendly, he’d bring the work back from El Salvador, Brazil and Alabama instead of laying off American workers.



Okay, well I have been away from the airline since the US/AA merger, so things obviously could have changed alot regarding Parker. I'm just more or less giving my observations and experience when things were pretty darned good in terms of getting our jobs brought back. I mean, he could have easily just let the station remain outsourced, but instead brought the work back which was a huge morale booster for us.


He never brought any stations back since the merger in 2013. The five ramp stations that are reopening are due to negotiations between the Association and the company which took over six years to accomplish. I have no idea of what you are talking about.
 
mikeyp224
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:09 pm

All of this just really goes to the fact that American Leadership (specifically Doug Parker) is really only concerned about themselves.

Before everyone jumps on me, I am not saying that he could have done much different to totally avoid furloughs due to Covid. The reality is, it was inevitable that there would be layoffs. The thing about Doug is that he is willing to say anything just to keep things moving forward. I don't understand how back in May and June you go from a stance of "we are going to do everything in our power to avoid having to involuntarily furlough anyone" to "we are overstaffed in some of our work groups by over 50%". To me that is just mind blowing.

Also, everyone knows that American is the one airline that is HYPER focused on stock performance and constantly returning value to shareholders. At the end of the day this shouldn't be surprising as Doug's compensation (to my understanding) is strictly in equity. It's not about the employees (it's about the shareholders "aka, Parker himself").

And this mindset of everyone out for themselves that starts at the top can be seen down lower in the ranks. Perfect example, an 84 year old flight attendant who has had a great and long career with American Airlines (through mergers) could have taken a very good exit package and save another person's job (who really needs it), but rather declined that opportunity and will continue flying.

I think it's time for Doug to make an exit so that American can FINALLY start "Going for Great"!
 
Wacker1000
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:56 pm

mikeyp224 wrote:
I think it's time for Doug to make an exit so that American can FINALLY start "Going for Great"!


You don't foster that culture in 6 years. It predates Doug by a lot.
 
Boof02671
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:42 pm

Remember Doug gets paid in stock. And by law his fiduciary responsibility is to the shareholders, not the employees.
 
Boof02671
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:47 pm

Updated number for ramp and passenger service

Image
 
toltommy
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:40 am

mikeyp224 wrote:
The thing about Doug is that he is willing to say anything just to keep things moving forward. I don't understand how back in May and June you go from a stance of "we are going to do everything in our power to avoid having to involuntarily furlough anyone" to "we are overstaffed in some of our work groups by over 50%". To me that is just mind blowing.


you do realize that in May and June, everyone thought the airline was going to be doing a lot more flying by October, right? It was thought that a lot more international flying would be back (PHL was supposed to restart in June, remember?), and that the airline would be back to 75% of 2019 capacity. Instead the airline is doing less flying in September than June. So despite all the attempts to rightsize staffing via leaves, the airline is overstaffed. Its really not that hard to see why. But go ahead, keep blaming it on Doug.
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gaystudpilot
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:55 am

toltommy wrote:
mikeyp224 wrote:
The thing about Doug is that he is willing to say anything just to keep things moving forward. I don't understand how back in May and June you go from a stance of "we are going to do everything in our power to avoid having to involuntarily furlough anyone" to "we are overstaffed in some of our work groups by over 50%". To me that is just mind blowing.


you do realize that in May and June, everyone thought the airline was going to be doing a lot more flying by October, right? It was thought that a lot more international flying would be back (PHL was supposed to restart in June, remember?), and that the airline would be back to 75% of 2019 capacity. Instead the airline is doing less flying in September than June. So despite all the attempts to rightsize staffing via leaves, the airline is overstaffed. Its really not that hard to see why. But go ahead, keep blaming it on Doug.


The US airline industry will be *lucky* to see 75% of pre-Covid/recession demand by 2024.
 
32andBelow
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:15 am

gaystudpilot wrote:
toltommy wrote:
mikeyp224 wrote:
The thing about Doug is that he is willing to say anything just to keep things moving forward. I don't understand how back in May and June you go from a stance of "we are going to do everything in our power to avoid having to involuntarily furlough anyone" to "we are overstaffed in some of our work groups by over 50%". To me that is just mind blowing.


you do realize that in May and June, everyone thought the airline was going to be doing a lot more flying by October, right? It was thought that a lot more international flying would be back (PHL was supposed to restart in June, remember?), and that the airline would be back to 75% of 2019 capacity. Instead the airline is doing less flying in September than June. So despite all the attempts to rightsize staffing via leaves, the airline is overstaffed. Its really not that hard to see why. But go ahead, keep blaming it on Doug.


The US airline industry will be *lucky* to see 75% of pre-Covid/recession demand by 2024.

No one has any idea what 2024 is going to be like. It could be 50% or the busiest year ever.
 
Chemist
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:37 am

The ultimate Black Swan event.
Makes 9/11 look like nothing.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Sat Aug 29, 2020 2:53 am

32andBelow wrote:
gaystudpilot wrote:
toltommy wrote:

you do realize that in May and June, everyone thought the airline was going to be doing a lot more flying by October, right? It was thought that a lot more international flying would be back (PHL was supposed to restart in June, remember?), and that the airline would be back to 75% of 2019 capacity. Instead the airline is doing less flying in September than June. So despite all the attempts to rightsize staffing via leaves, the airline is overstaffed. Its really not that hard to see why. But go ahead, keep blaming it on Doug.


The US airline industry will be *lucky* to see 75% of pre-Covid/recession demand by 2024.

No one has any idea what 2024 is going to be like. It could be 50% or the busiest year ever.


Thank You!
 
gaystudpilot
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:36 am

jfklganyc wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
gaystudpilot wrote:

The US airline industry will be *lucky* to see 75% of pre-Covid/recession demand by 2024.

No one has any idea what 2024 is going to be like. It could be 50% or the busiest year ever.


Thank You!


Sticking with it. :)
 
mikeyp224
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:37 am

toltommy wrote:
mikeyp224 wrote:
The thing about Doug is that he is willing to say anything just to keep things moving forward. I don't understand how back in May and June you go from a stance of "we are going to do everything in our power to avoid having to involuntarily furlough anyone" to "we are overstaffed in some of our work groups by over 50%". To me that is just mind blowing.


you do realize that in May and June, everyone thought the airline was going to be doing a lot more flying by October, right? It was thought that a lot more international flying would be back (PHL was supposed to restart in June, remember?), and that the airline would be back to 75% of 2019 capacity. Instead the airline is doing less flying in September than June. So despite all the attempts to rightsize staffing via leaves, the airline is overstaffed. Its really not that hard to see why. But go ahead, keep blaming it on Doug.


Oh, don't you worry. I do realize. Did you read the beginning of my post. I didn't say the furloughs we're Doug's fault. Did you see that? Perhaps you didn't. My suggestion would be you simply read next time.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:29 pm

gaystudpilot wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
No one has any idea what 2024 is going to be like. It could be 50% or the busiest year ever.


Thank You!


Sticking with it. :)


That is fine...just label it as your prediction.

Nothing more, nothing less.
 
gaystudpilot
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:52 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
gaystudpilot wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:

Thank You!


Sticking with it. :)


That is fine...just label it as your prediction.

Nothing more, nothing less.


Neither pessimistic nor overly optimistic given the pandemic and recession twofer. And grounded in what others in the industry, with more data and who sit on a different perch, believe — all based on what we know today.

Passenger volumes are still down 71% compared to last year and experts predict it is unlikely they will return to prepandemic levels until 2024.

Source: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/70000-airline-jobs-jeopardy-coronavirus-relief-expires/story?id=72527507

The International Air Transport Association, for example, late last month announced it now did not expect full recovery of global air demand to pre-Covid levels until 2024, a year later than it projected a few months before. Lufthansa Group chairman and CEO Carsten Spohr this month also pointed to 2024 as his company's projected date for full recovery.

Source: https://www.businesstravelnews.com/Transportation/Air/Darkening-Skies
 
toltommy
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Sat Aug 29, 2020 7:57 pm

mikeyp224 wrote:
Oh, don't you worry. I do realize. Did you read the beginning of my post. I didn't say the furloughs we're Doug's fault. Did you see that? Perhaps you didn't. My suggestion would be you simply read next time.


You mean the part where you said Doug was only concerned about himself? Yeah I read it. I have no problem reading. Or applying critical thinking. You should try that sometime.
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ua900
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Sat Aug 29, 2020 9:08 pm

toltommy wrote:
mikeyp224 wrote:
Oh, don't you worry. I do realize. Did you read the beginning of my post. I didn't say the furloughs we're Doug's fault. Did you see that? Perhaps you didn't. My suggestion would be you simply read next time.


You mean the part where you said Doug was only concerned about himself? Yeah I read it. I have no problem reading. Or applying critical thinking. You should try that sometime.


I think Mikey means this part:

mikeyp224 wrote:
Before everyone jumps on me, I am not saying that he could have done much different to totally avoid furloughs due to Covid. The reality is, it was inevitable that there would be layoffs. The thing about Doug is that he is willing to say anything just to keep things moving forward. I don't understand how back in May and June you go from a stance of "we are going to do everything in our power to avoid having to involuntarily furlough anyone" to "we are overstaffed in some of our work groups by over 50%". To me that is just mind blowing.

Also, everyone knows that American is the one airline that is HYPER focused on stock performance and constantly returning value to shareholders. At the end of the day this shouldn't be surprising as Doug's compensation (to my understanding) is strictly in equity. It's not about the employees (it's about the shareholders "aka, Parker himself").

And this mindset of everyone out for themselves that starts at the top can be seen down lower in the ranks. Perfect example, an 84 year old flight attendant who has had a great and long career with American Airlines (through mergers) could have taken a very good exit package and save another person's job (who really needs it), but rather declined that opportunity and will continue flying.


Doug (and the 84-year-old FA and many other senior AA team members who likely have AA equity as well) might do all that and still wouldn't necessarily be wrong:

Wacker1000 wrote:
You don't foster that culture in 6 years. It predates Doug by a lot.

Boof02671 wrote:
Remember Doug gets paid in stock. And by law his fiduciary responsibility is to the shareholders, not the employees.


No one knew the slump was going to continue, at least no one hoped it would. But now if it does then there can either be a second package or a ton of junior people can leave in the order of their seniority. Not fair to some I'm sure but that's how the airline world is structured. On the flip side, perhaps AA and other carriers will go under altogether, in which case neither seniority nor equity will make a big difference. As someone who once bought AA stock when it was the price of a postage stamp, I can tell you it's a risk for everyone right now. No one knows what's ahead or how much longer the slump will last.
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NWAESC
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DL commits to no furloughs for F/As & ground employees

Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:35 pm

https://www.startribune.com/delta-won-t-furlough-flight-attendants-ground-workers/572417442/

From the article:

"More than 40,000 employees from across work groups took voluntarily, unpaid leaves of absence over the past several months and about 17,000 employees — or about 20% of its workforce — took the company's early retirement offer. Ground-based employees have had their work hours reduced by 25% as air travel continues to be significantly depressed."

Notably excepted from this announcement is DL's pilot corps, who still face a layoff of ~2000 pilots after 10/1...
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
MIflyer12
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Re: DL commits to no furloughs for F/As & ground employees

Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:45 pm

Anybody have Bastian's memo referenced in the Star-Tribune link? Is there a time frame or other qualification mentioned?
 
ordbosewr
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Re: DL commits to no furloughs for F/As & ground employees

Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:45 pm

The article does not mention, are they cutting hours or other types of things that will reduce pay or cost to the company?
 
departedflights
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Re: DL commits to no furloughs for F/As & ground employees

Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:57 pm

I didn't notice if the article mentioned how many flight attendants were being displaced to catering and reservations positions.

I know some are but I was wondering if you had an exact number or percentage. Again, I may have missed it in the article.
The opinions are expressed are my own and do not represent those of anyone else, including my coworkers or my employer.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: DL commits to no furloughs for F/As & ground employees

Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:11 pm

ordbosewr wrote:
The article does not mention, are they cutting hours or other types of things that will reduce pay or cost to the company?


We have all been working under a 25% cut in hours, and that will continue through (at least) the end of the year.

departedflights wrote:
I didn't notice if the article mentioned how many flight attendants were being displaced to catering and reservations positions.

I know some are but I was wondering if you had an exact number or percentage. Again, I may have missed it in the article.


No idea who-went-where, but as of just 2-3 weeks ago, they mentioned being overstaffed by ~3000 FA's.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
Flflyer83
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Re: DL commits to no furloughs for F/As & ground employees

Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:13 pm

departedflights wrote:
I didn't notice if the article mentioned how many flight attendants were being displaced to catering and reservations positions. .


Oh, this is going to be interesting... I guess if you shuffle them in to positions they don’t like and they quit, you can still claim that you didn’t furlough any...
 
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NWAESC
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Re: DL commits to no furloughs for F/As & ground employees

Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:17 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Anybody have Bastian's memo referenced in the Star-Tribune link? Is there a time frame or other qualification mentioned?


It's still marked internal, so I can't cite it, but the article on Delta's News Hub states summer 2021..

EDITED to add this link: https://news.delta.com/how-culture-and- ... delta-jobs
Last edited by NWAESC on Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
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NWAESC
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Re: DL commits to no furloughs for F/As & ground employees

Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:19 pm

Flflyer83 wrote:
Oh, this is going to be interesting... I guess if you shuffle them in to positions they don’t like and they quit, you can still claim that you didn’t furlough any...


Exactly.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
ordbosewr
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Re: DL commits to no furloughs for F/As & ground employees

Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:25 pm

NWAESC wrote:
ordbosewr wrote:
The article does not mention, are they cutting hours or other types of things that will reduce pay or cost to the company?


We have all been working under a 25% cut in hours, and that will continue through (at least) the end of the year.

departedflights wrote:
I didn't notice if the article mentioned how many flight attendants were being displaced to catering and reservations positions.

I know some are but I was wondering if you had an exact number or percentage. Again, I may have missed it in the article.


No idea who-went-where, but as of just 2-3 weeks ago, they mentioned being overstaffed by ~3000 FA's.


All the benefits of having a non-union workforce. (both UA and AA would dream to have this flexibility)

They can make a big claim but in reality many of the people in those positions are really in the same position as those at the other carriers. Maybe even worse...

How did DL have the ability to cut hours under CARES?
 
N312RC
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Re: DL commits to no furloughs for F/As & ground employees

Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:25 pm

Flflyer83 wrote:
Oh, this is going to be interesting... I guess if you shuffle them in to positions they don’t like and they quit, you can still claim that you didn’t furlough any...


Or, you could have no job. In a pandemic as serious as 1918.

Keep your health insurance. Keep some income coming in the door.

I think most Americans would rather have a job right now guaranteeing some basic income. The US doesn’t have a generous social safety net like the rest of the world.

I’m sure the employees who can’t handle a 25 percent pay cut tied to 25 percent less working hours can make up that pay cut by getting a job somewhere else on their many days off, or tighten their belt. Sorry you blew all your money living above your means, these are extreme times.

It never ceases to amaze me how the people on airliners.net profess to love aviation... but hate everything to do with aviation.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8235
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: DL commits to no furloughs for F/As & ground employees

Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:25 pm

This was the public press release that contains the memo:

https://news.delta.com/ed-bastian-memo- ... ployees-us
 
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NWAESC
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Re: DL commits to no furloughs for F/As & ground employees

Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:29 pm

ordbosewr wrote:
How did DL have the ability to cut hours under CARES?


The CARES Act only mentions wages, not hours worked. Delta kept everyone's base rates at 100%, and just cut their hours. It's semantics/parsing the language, but...
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
codc10
Posts: 2908
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Re: DL commits to no furloughs for F/As & ground employees

Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:33 pm

NWAESC wrote:
ordbosewr wrote:
How did DL have the ability to cut hours under CARES?


The CARES Act only mentions wages, not hours worked. Delta kept everyone's base rates at 100%, and just cut their hours. It's semantics/parsing the language, but...


And United was roundly blasted for doing the same thing to its (unionized) workforce, which it walked back.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: DL commits to no furloughs for F/As & ground employees

Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:36 pm

codc10 wrote:
NWAESC wrote:
ordbosewr wrote:
How did DL have the ability to cut hours under CARES?


The CARES Act only mentions wages, not hours worked. Delta kept everyone's base rates at 100%, and just cut their hours. It's semantics/parsing the language, but...


And United was roundly blasted for doing the same thing to its (unionized) workforce, which it walked back.

The difference between discussing options and just implimenting. Delta also has a history of keeping promises that UA doesn't.

The costs must be cut, there are only a few options...

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
N312RC
Posts: 2619
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Re: DL commits to no furloughs for F/As & ground employees

Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:38 pm

NWAESC wrote:
ordbosewr wrote:
How did DL have the ability to cut hours under CARES?


The CARES Act only mentions wages, not hours worked. Delta kept everyone's base rates at 100%, and just cut their hours. It's semantics/parsing the language, but...


As someone who’s been furloughed twice in my airline career, it’s nice to have a job... and healthcare insurance, which means god forbid I ever get Covid and end up on a ventilator, I won’t end up with some outrageous $750,000 hospital bill.
 
AY104
Posts: 501
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:35 am

Re: DL commits to no furloughs for F/As & ground employees

Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:45 pm

Well said. Although it would not apply to everyone's situation.
Last edited by AY104 on Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The only thing a customer should expect for his/her loyalty is good service
 
departedflights
Posts: 162
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Re: DL commits to no furloughs for F/As & ground employees

Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:45 pm

N312RC wrote:
Sorry you blew all your money living above your means, these are extreme times.


I know you weren't addressing me but I don't think that's fair of you to say.

When I started in this industry, I most certainly did not live above my means but I definitely lived paycheck to paycheck.

It was almost thirty years ago, the cost of living was a lot less than it is today but my starting rate at the ticket counter was $6.00/hr.

I was able to survive because I loved my job, but there was definitely no saving for a rainy day.... let alone a pandemic.

The people we are talking about are probably the people in their first few years of this their careers, too.

I may agree with a lot of the remainder of your post.... but I don't agree with that statement.
The opinions are expressed are my own and do not represent those of anyone else, including my coworkers or my employer.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: DL commits to no furloughs for F/As & ground employees

Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:49 pm

departedflights wrote:
N312RC wrote:
Sorry you blew all your money living above your means, these are extreme times.


I know you weren't addressing me but I don't think that's fair of you to say.

When I started in this industry, I most certainly did not live above my means but I definitely lived paycheck to paycheck.

It was almost thirty years ago, the cost of living was a lot less than it is today but my starting rate at the ticket counter was $6.00/hr.

I was able to survive because I loved my job, but there was definitely no saving for a rainy day.... let alone a pandemic.

The people we are talking about are probably the people in their first few years of this their careers, too.


It is a solid thing for DL to do, to the extent that they can with their capital structure. Good community citizenship.

The pilots have a different bargain. They know the rewards are great in good times, and in bad times, they will be expected to bear a significant share of the burden to keep the company going.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2628
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: DL commits to no furloughs for F/As & ground employees

Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:51 pm

Flflyer83 wrote:
Oh, this is going to be interesting... I guess if you shuffle them in to positions they don’t like and they quit, you can still claim that you didn’t furlough any...


And no unemployment claims get filed by employees who quit.
 
departedflights
Posts: 162
Joined: Fri May 25, 2018 2:50 am

Re: DL commits to no furloughs for F/As & ground employees

Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:53 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
It is a solid thing for DL to do, to the extent that they can with their capital structure. Good community citizenship.


I'm not sure why you quoted me. I never said it wasn't. My issue, as I said, was the comment that these people don't have savings because they are all choosing to live above their means.
The opinions are expressed are my own and do not represent those of anyone else, including my coworkers or my employer.
 
2175301
Posts: 1907
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 11:19 am

Re: DL commits to no furloughs for F/As & ground employees

Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:07 pm

Flflyer83 wrote:
Oh, this is going to be interesting... I guess if you shuffle them in to positions they don’t like and they quit, you can still claim that you didn’t furlough any...



Why would many quit? It is unlikely that they can find a job that pays better with better benefits than what they will get at Delta even at 3/4 normal hours. Not a lot of companies with well paid employees are hiring at this time.

Of course, a few may find something that is better for them.

The other note is that this promise to not furlough any of these employees is only good to the end of the year. What happens after that is unknown. At some point Delta may be forced to significantly downsize so they are essentially meeting demand and not burning huge amounts of cash supporting a bloated infrastructure. If and when that occurs is yet unknown. Next spring is a likely time in my mind if things do not turn around by then.

Have a great day,
 
FSDan
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Re: DL commits to no furloughs for F/As & ground employees

Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:17 pm

NWAESC wrote:
departedflights wrote:
I didn't notice if the article mentioned how many flight attendants were being displaced to catering and reservations positions.

I know some are but I was wondering if you had an exact number or percentage. Again, I may have missed it in the article.


No idea who-went-where, but as of just 2-3 weeks ago, they mentioned being overstaffed by ~3000 FA's.


As long as there is some sort of recall provision for displaced FAs to be able to come back to the FA role when conditions improve and hiring restarts, this seems like a better outcome for them than if they were furloughed.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
departedflights
Posts: 162
Joined: Fri May 25, 2018 2:50 am

Re: DL commits to no furloughs for F/As & ground employees

Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:22 pm

FSDan wrote:
NWAESC wrote:
departedflights wrote:
I didn't notice if the article mentioned how many flight attendants were being displaced to catering and reservations positions.

I know some are but I was wondering if you had an exact number or percentage. Again, I may have missed it in the article.


No idea who-went-where, but as of just 2-3 weeks ago, they mentioned being overstaffed by ~3000 FA's.


As long as there is some sort of recall provision for displaced FAs to be able to come back to the FA role when conditions improve and hiring restarts, this seems like a better outcome for them than if they were furloughed.


I agree. Again, I was just curious how many flight attendants it affected.
The opinions are expressed are my own and do not represent those of anyone else, including my coworkers or my employer.
 
panamair
Posts: 4347
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: DL commits to no furloughs for F/As & ground employees

Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:28 pm

departedflights wrote:
I didn't notice if the article mentioned how many flight attendants were being displaced to catering and reservations positions.


For the FA group of over 25000, 4100 took the voluntary separation package, just under 4000 are taking the various voluntary leaves of absence (ranging from 4 to 12 months), about 1000 are in the one-month-on/one-month-off program, and about 1000 have temporarily switched to other departments.
 
kiowa
Posts: 776
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: DL commits to no furloughs for F/As & ground employees

Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:30 pm

Interesting commitment. All commitments disappear in a bankruptcy though.

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