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gonnagetbumpy
Posts: 78
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:57 pm

I too am against the airlines receiving any additional aid. The first round bought them time to see how this would play out. This time, however, they know how it plays out. This is private industry that needs to be able to support itself. The airlines need to right size their staff for the operations they have going forward. The biggest argument I have for them getting it is that they go on unemployment which the government pays for as well and it keeps them connected to their company over the duration of the pandemic. Additionally, what also happens to all of the people that already took packages because they were essentially told you either do this or get pushed out and get nothing? Do those people get jobs back or do they get a cut of the money they would have made? Workforces are already much smaller than they were after the first round of payments so if payments are given, they should be proportionally cut. Nevertheless, I don't think a second round of aid is warranted.
 
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Stitch
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:05 pm

chonetsao wrote:
Could you provide a source of your claim rather than MSNBC or CNN?


What news outlet would you consider acceptable?

Or would you prefer it from the Senate Majority Leader's own mouth?

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., told reporters Wednesday it would be "outlandish" to think Republicans would be on board with a $2 trillion bill, though he said he and other Republicans want to see relief for Americans.


Meanwhile, the US House and the White House continue to work to try and advance said $1.5 to 2 trillion bill and entered new negotiations earlier today.
Last edited by Stitch on Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
AEROFAN
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:10 pm

chonetsao wrote:
Stitch wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
Trump has been behind it from the beginning. He is not the hold up, its Congress and Primarily Nancy Pelosi.


The House has been pushing for it - both Democrat and Republican.

It's the Republicans in the Senate under McConnell that have been holding it up.


Could you provide a source of your claim rather than MSNBC or CNN?


Could you provide a source for your claim other than fox?
Let capitalist forces rule the day. Sick and tired of gov't corporate handouts. Let airlines find funding from capital markets. If they can't, well they should have been saving up instead of all the shares buybacks they have been doing. Per IATA, airlines made close to $1T 2015-2019. They should have learnt a lesson from squirrels.
Last edited by AEROFAN on Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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freakyrat
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:15 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Lootess wrote:
AA has way too many FAs, that is for sure.

Not Pre Covid. Every airline has too many employees. All airlines are over staffed and all will lay-off, early retirements and voluntary leaves. It’s no exclusive to AA.

Numbers I’m hearing for FAs is 8,099.


At some of the regionals FA's took voluntary leaves and early retirements. Traffic is slowly returning and now some of the regionals do not have enopugh FA's to staff flights.
 
TUSAirliner
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:18 pm

Happytycho wrote:
The world has been changed by Covid-19. There is little sense in holding onto the dream that one day everything will suddenly be back to the way it was before. Airlines have had six months to prepare for operating in a reduced demand environment by retiring planes, reducing schedules, and readying furloughs. Any further government support would be merely a jobs program for those to be furloughed - the survi

Unfortunately for those impacted, I don't see paying excess airline staff as a great use of federal funds when compared to things like infrastructure and healthcare. I'm fine with the government paying to create jobs in a down economy, but I'd at least like to get something like new roads or bridges or airports or high speed rail out of it. Paying pilots and flight attendants to sit at home or fly around empty planes just doesn't feel like a very good return for taxpayer dollars.


Airports and Airlines are most definitely part of our infrastructure along with highways and railroads. A country of our size geographically requires a solid commercial airline network, both passenger and freight.
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:38 pm

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-reli ... publicans/

"Washington — The Senate failed to advance a slimmed-down coronavirus relief bill in a procedural vote on Thursday, as Republicans and Democrats remain at an impasse in negotiating legislation to respond to the COVID-19 pandemic. The legislation proposed by Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell would have extended additional unemployment benefits and poured more money into a small business lending program.

The vote was 52 to 47, and 60 votes were needed to advance the legislation for debate and a full vote on the Senate floor. The bill did not gain support from any Senate Democrats, who support a much larger package."

"Let's not have a skinny bill when we have a massive problem," Pelosi said.

House Democrats passed their own $3 trillion coronavirus relief bill in May, but McConnell has refused to bring the legislation to the Senate floor, questioning its cost and the inclusion of provisions such as election assistance for states."

The Senate GOP voted FOR $500 Billion for unemployment benefits, $257 Billion for Payroll Protection program and $105 Billion for liability protection for schools. Every Senate Democrat voted against it saying it wasn't enough. House Democrats passed their own $3 Trillion bill which McConnell was against. You guys can decide who is holding up the necessary funds and if the reason is legit or not.

This article is 3 weeks old so not sure if anything has changed since then.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:30 am

Letter from Parker

Furloughs move forward. Willing to recall employees if PSP extension is passed.


Image

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjNAe2oXsAA ... name=large
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UALFAson
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Re: NY Times article on airline employee buyouts/early retirements

Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:00 am

Thanks for sharing this link--I didn't see this article earlier today when it was presumably posted on the NYT web page.

I will share here the same comment I wrote there:

What isn't mentioned in this article is that, with the obvious exception of pilots and perhaps mechanics, the airline industry has given hundreds of thousands of Americans without the highest levels of education the opportunity to live middle-class lives.

My mother was the youngest of 8 children from a poor family in a small town. She had no chance at college and her other career choices were switchboard operator and secretary. But she became a flight attendant (well, stewardess back then) and had a wonderful career for 37 years before she retired.

Sadly, these types of jobs along with most of the middle class, are slipping away. You're either the 1% or you're making minimum wage as a contract worker picking somebody else's groceries at a box store.
"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
 
DaCubbyBearBar
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:34 am

Prayers for all those effected
I am me and no one else...so my opinions are mine
 
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lightsaber
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:38 am

LAXintl wrote:
Letter from Parker

Furloughs move forward. Willing to recall employees if PSP extension is passed.


Image

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjNAe2oXsAA ... name=large

Kudos they will recall if the act goes through.

My heart goes out the those effected, furloughed or hanging on.

Lightsaber
6 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: NY Times article on airline employee buyouts/early retirements

Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:46 am

UALFAson wrote:

Sadly, these types of jobs along with most of the middle class, are slipping away. You're either the 1% or you're making minimum wage as a contract worker picking somebody else's groceries at a box store.


There's a lot of room between minimum wage and $538k annually. As for making 5x minimum wage with a high school education - yes, that is hard today.

A AA/DL/UA pilot with 5-8 years at the carrier may find it difficult to replace his income selling real estate 16 days a month.
 
KFLLCFII
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Re: NY Times article on airline employee buyouts/early retirements

Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:37 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
UALFAson wrote:

Sadly, these types of jobs along with most of the middle class, are slipping away. You're either the 1% or you're making minimum wage as a contract worker picking somebody else's groceries at a box store.


A AA/DL/UA pilot with 5-8 years at the carrier may find it difficult to replace his income selling real estate 16 days a month.


An AA/DL/UA pilot with 5-8 years at the carrier (back in "normal" times) who lived and spent like they sell real estate 16 days a month should not find it difficult to replace anything now (and in the intermediate future) with the massive rainy-day fund they've accumulated in their savings account, provided they continue to live and spend like they sell real estate 16 days a month.
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
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JLGordon
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:11 pm

It is so sad, that in between this crisis you folks in the US are in between and stuck in the presidential election process. In the way that you only have two parties, everyone of them wants to get their sheep home first, and counted in the dry.
So sad, and feeling deep for all those people having their daily life endagered just by politics.
Making my fingers crossed for all those people in need.
 
Airbuser
Posts: 32
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:52 pm

Sad day. In addition to losing your paycheck you also lose healthcare. A family of four costs around $36000 per year for a basic healthcare plan.( that is what my self employed friend pays in Indiana). You still pay when you go to the doctor. Deductibles are always several thousand dollars. The good old USA is not about sharing the wealth.
 
IFlyVeryLittle
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:03 pm

Im on my seventh month of 65% pay for 100% of the work outside of the airline industry. I find it dangerous and insulting that airlines that have begun charging me to choose a seat and check a bag, normalized the legroom normally found in the backseat of a Honda Civic and generally taken on a literal "its our way or the highway" attitude are now clamoring for MORE of my money in the form of taxes to fly essentially empty airplanes around while paying their employees full wages. Join the club, airlines. COVID sucks for everyone.
 
32andBelow
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:12 pm

Airbuser wrote:
Sad day. In addition to losing your paycheck you also lose healthcare. A family of four costs around $36000 per year for a basic healthcare plan.( that is what my self employed friend pays in Indiana). You still pay when you go to the doctor. Deductibles are always several thousand dollars. The good old USA is not about sharing the wealth.

It won’t cost that much under Obamacare or Medicaid now that they don’t have income
 
Miamiairport
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:49 pm

This would set up a dangerous trend. Essentially paying workers of one industry a full paycheck to do nothing. The other factor is that demand, particularly business travel (which is the profit driver for legacies) may never come back to 100%. The brutal truth is that there may be a need for less planes and therefore less workers.

Right now airlines are chasing the $49 fare customer to generate 50% of previous year capacity. Some airlines are blocking seats to boot. This is not sustainable. Something else will need to give, which might include less airlines with less seats in the market.
 
Sooner787
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:14 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
This would set up a dangerous trend. Essentially paying workers of one industry a full paycheck to do nothing. The other factor is that demand, particularly business travel (which is the profit driver for legacies) may never come back to 100%. The brutal truth is that there may be a need for less planes and therefore less workers.

Right now airlines are chasing the $49 fare customer to generate 50% of previous year capacity. Some airlines are blocking seats to boot. This is not sustainable. Something else will need to give, which might include less airlines with less seats in the market.


I've been furloughed from my travel agency for 6 months and I've seen consolidation in the travel industry pick up recently.

I'd say the airlines might follow suit, but things are so dire, might be better for he US airlines to wait for one them to go bust
and pick their bones for scraps. :(
 
Murdoughnut
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:31 pm

So I work on the airport side of the industry and have many close friends who are subject to furlough. While a lack of government funding puts mine and their job at risk, I still don't think it's the right call for reasons that go beyond my self-interests.

The CARES Act was passed at a time when we thought we just needed to give the airlines a boost to get them through a tough time. Back then, most recovery models were based on the "V shape" model of a somewhat quick return of traffic. We're still seeing the fallout from this, as air carrier capacity in the States continues to outpace demand, even when accounting for blocked seats. This is because airlines were required to operate in places where they otherwise would cut service.

Our new forecasts models predict a much longer recovery - in the neighborhood of 5-7 years based on an industry that will be much smaller as a result of demand, as well as the debt airlines have had to take on. I get that we want to save jobs - but what's the sense in forcing airlines to keep staff and routes when the market isn't going to sustain those resources for several years?

The government should help airlines remain viable in the short-term so that they can return to profitability in the medium-term in an environment marked by increasing debt loads. But keeping staff on the payroll for an indefinite period of time isn't helping the airlines - and is only exacerbating the longer term financial problems that may result in there being no airline for them to return to.

It's a smaller industry and will be for some time. It just doesn't warrant the staffing levels we currently see, unfortunately.
 
d8s
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:35 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Airbuser wrote:
Sad day. In addition to losing your paycheck you also lose healthcare. A family of four costs around $36000 per year for a basic healthcare plan.( that is what my self employed friend pays in Indiana). You still pay when you go to the doctor. Deductibles are always several thousand dollars. The good old USA is not about sharing the wealth.

It won’t cost that much under Obamacare or Medicaid now that they don’t have income


Uhhh...we still have the ACA or as you refer to it Obamacare. The cost is a result of the insurance companies, not the government or the airlines.
 
Miamiairport
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:50 pm

It seems to me that airlines, particularly the legacy airlines, were headed to back where the were in the late 90s/early 2000s. Chasing market share for the sake or profitability. Sure since then airlines have created a new host of fees but as time evolves consumers learn how to avoid many of those fees.

The legacy airlines will never have the cost structure of a Spirit or Frontier. As it was a sizable amount of profit was being driven by credit card income not actual flying, particularly for AA. I have to wonder if again we at some future point were going to face too many airlines, too many seats, and too many money losing fares resulting in another round of layoffs and Chapter 11 restructuring. And I have to wonder did COVID 19 just put that trajectory on a fast speed up version.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:06 pm

Murdoughnut wrote:
So I work on the airport side of the industry and have many close friends who are subject to furlough. While a lack of government funding puts mine and their job at risk, I still don't think it's the right call for reasons that go beyond my self-interests.

The CARES Act was passed at a time when we thought we just needed to give the airlines a boost to get them through a tough time. Back then, most recovery models were based on the "V shape" model of a somewhat quick return of traffic. We're still seeing the fallout from this, as air carrier capacity in the States continues to outpace demand, even when accounting for blocked seats. This is because airlines were required to operate in places where they otherwise would cut service.

Our new forecasts models predict a much longer recovery - in the neighborhood of 5-7 years based on an industry that will be much smaller as a result of demand, as well as the debt airlines have had to take on. I get that we want to save jobs - but what's the sense in forcing airlines to keep staff and routes when the market isn't going to sustain those resources for several years?

The government should help airlines remain viable in the short-term so that they can return to profitability in the medium-term in an environment marked by increasing debt loads. But keeping staff on the payroll for an indefinite period of time isn't helping the airlines - and is only exacerbating the longer term financial problems that may result in there being no airline for them to return to.

It's a smaller industry and will be for some time. It just doesn't warrant the staffing levels we currently see, unfortunately.



Correct
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:12 pm

The current system of “ Majors” is unsustainable, but American governments have a lot at stake to keep the Big Four going, from tax revenue, to multi-billion dollar sky palace investments, to political favors, to jobs. I agree, perhaps it is time to let the old majors die, and new ones to come fill the demand.

There was a time that people believed that PanAm, Eastern, and TWA could never go away, too.
 
Waterbomber2
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:34 pm

From what I see here, it looks like the USA is veering more left than Europe, taking workers hostages, demanding that public money be splashed on them again.

If AA, UA, DL need money, they can issue shares until they reach zero and bonds until the interest rates reach 50%.
With record stock markets, and the FED bond purchases, this is what they should do, there is no excuse.

If the US government caves in and gives another stimulus when the capital markets already have plenty of liquidity, it will be considered an unfair subsidy by foreign carriers.
All these airlines may then see their traffic rights taken way from them by foreign countries.

Also, where does it end?
A bail out every 6 months until when?
What did airlines do the past 6 months to reduce the bleed?

It's time to file for bankruptcy and boot short-sighted beggar managements.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:43 pm

Extending PSP simply keeps airlines operating as zombies with massive overstaffing chasing a fraction of traffic demand. The time has long come to cut and restructure and not delay the inevitable reckoning.

For those employees impacted, a far better government path would be to provide improved UI benefits, job retraining, etc.
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alfa164
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:58 pm

jetblastdubai wrote:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-relief-bill-senate-vote-fails-republicans/

"Washington — The Senate failed to advance a slimmed-down coronavirus relief bill in a procedural vote on Thursday, as Republicans and Democrats remain at an impasse in negotiating legislation to respond to the COVID-19 pandemic. The legislation proposed by Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell would have extended additional unemployment benefits and poured more money into a small business lending program.

The vote was 52 to 47, and 60 votes were needed to advance the legislation for debate and a full vote on the Senate floor. The bill did not gain support from any Senate Democrats, who support a much larger package."

"Let's not have a skinny bill when we have a massive problem," Pelosi said.

House Democrats passed their own $3 trillion coronavirus relief bill in May, but McConnell has refused to bring the legislation to the Senate floor, questioning its cost and the inclusion of provisions such as election assistance for states."

The Senate GOP voted FOR $500 Billion for unemployment benefits, $257 Billion for Payroll Protection program and $105 Billion for liability protection for schools. Every Senate Democrat voted against it saying it wasn't enough. House Democrats passed their own $3 Trillion bill which McConnell was against. You guys can decide who is holding up the necessary funds and if the reason is legit or not.

This article is 3 weeks old so not sure if anything has changed since then.


Nothing has changed. Mnuchin and Pelosi are still trying to get a bill that will prevent excessive layoffs, and McConnell is still balking at helping workers (not surprising: no airlines are based in Kentucky). Here is yesterday's write-up from Reuters:

"Earlier, U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said talks with House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi had made progress on a bipartisan aid plan, although no deal was reached and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell called a $2.2 trillion coronavirus relief proposal “outlandish.”"


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-airlines/u-s-airlines-await-roller-coaster-aid-developments-in-washington-idUSKBN26L0KV?il=0
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nine4nine
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:24 pm

My heart goes out to those who will not only lose their jobs And even their livelihood starting today. Having been there twice I really feel for all of you.

I went thru an airline shutdown in the late 90’s And lost my new home I just purchased and had my car repoed after being jobless for 5 months going thru extensive interviews with multiple carriers. Dusted myself off, got a job with a legacy carrier only to be laid off again due to low seniority rank in the first round of cuts after 9/11. Never went back to my passion.....
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Rookie87
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:49 pm

nine4nine wrote:
My heart goes out to those who will not only lose their jobs And even their livelihood starting today. Having been there twice I really feel for all of you.

I went thru an airline shutdown in the late 90’s And lost my new home I just purchased and had my car repoed after being jobless for 5 months going thru extensive interviews with multiple carriers. Dusted myself off, got a job with a legacy carrier only to be laid off again due to low seniority rank in the first round of cuts after 9/11. Never went back to my passion.....


This is what so many people are not wrapping their minds around. I feel for you all. To not be able to work in a field youre passionate about and face having to get a job to pay the bills. This sucks on so many levels and I and many others can only hope things bounce back at some point
 
Miamiairport
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:16 pm

Don't want to per se take this discussion off track but we need our governments to begin to develop a rational policy for dealing with COVID. We know who the high risk groups are for extreme complications, doctors know how to better treat this avoiding hospital stays and deaths, and we now are seeing the fallout for to what an economic shutdown does to the population. But as long as the discussion and decisions are based upon hysterics, political points and football, scare theater and media desperate to shovel out the fear factor for eyeballs and clicks the stories of financial ruin and all that comes with it will continue.
 
jagraham
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:06 pm

For those who don't follow financials, I bring up the example of Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers. It was widely felt that the collapsing mortgage bonds were the fault of the issuers, many being issued by investment banks, and that the investment banks should suffer. Bear Stearns was bailed out (no one was happy but Chase, but that's another story). When Lehman was failing, Treasury Secretary Paulson let them fail. Immediately afterwards, the financial system locked up. It took a few months and a lot of trillions of dollars to get the financial system moving again.

The financial system is in danger of locking up again. There are a lot of places in the economy that could be the last Lehman type of straw. Hence all the bailouts and loans/gifts. Some, like the Paycheck Protection Program, haven't quite worked as intended. But no one who understands 2007 and 2008 wants to fall over that cliff again.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:26 pm

"HOUSE SPEAKER PELOSI URGES AIRLINES TO DELAY FURLOUGHS AS AGREEMENT "IMMINENT" ON GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE"

https://twitter.com/DeItaOne/status/131 ... 86496?s=20
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:48 pm

nine4nine wrote:
My heart goes out to those who will not only lose their jobs And even their livelihood starting today. Having been there twice I really feel for all of you.

I went thru an airline shutdown in the late 90’s And lost my new home I just purchased and had my car repoed after being jobless for 5 months going thru extensive interviews with multiple carriers. Dusted myself off, got a job with a legacy carrier only to be laid off again due to low seniority rank in the first round of cuts after 9/11. Never went back to my passion.....


I have worked for or around the airline business most of my adult life. I took the early out because I could see the writing on the wall. (not a paid pilot)

As the last two weeks have passed, I am coming to the growing realization that I will likely age out before the industry comes back, (unless I stumble into a close by startup, or somesuch) to anything close to what it was in January, probably a decade or more.
It saddens me, but I guess that realization comes to us all, eventually.
 
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Stitch
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Re: American to cut 19,000 jobs in October

Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:38 pm

The chairman of the House Transportation Committee attempted to get just the PSP passed via Unanimous Consent, but Republicans refused so it died on the floor.

Democrats subsequently passed the CARES bill (which includes PSP), however the Republicans in the Senate have said they will not support it and the White House is against spending the full amount (though they are on board for about a billion more than Senate Republicans and a half-billion less than the House).
 
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mercure1
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Re: Aviation sector unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Sun Oct 04, 2020 4:15 pm

Pretty crazy but COVID19 could lead to 46mil aviation sector job losses globally. Around 11mil jobs are in the sector with the remainder in support and related industries like tourism.
Of those 11mil, 4.8mil could be lost in 2020.

https://airwaysmag.com/industry/covid-1 ... s-at-risk/
mercure f-wtcc
 
FriscoHeavy
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Airbus Cutting 15,000 Jobs

Mon Oct 05, 2020 1:54 pm

I didn't see this posted anywhere, but just saw on Fox News that Airbus is cutting at least 15,000 jobs.

Total Bummer.
Whatever
 
astuteman
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Re: Airbus Cutting 15,000 Jobs

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:03 pm

 
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Revelation
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Re: Airbus Cutting 15,000 Jobs

Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:56 pm

astuteman wrote:

It seems to be both old and new: old news being bumped because the COO gave an recent interview to Handelsblatt emphasizing that the situation is deteriorating and this should be the minimum number of jobs to be cut:

The aviation industry is deteriorated again, due to rising coronavirus infections and renewed travel restrictions, Airbus Chief Operating officer Michael Schoellhorn said in an interview with Handelsblatt.

The situation in early autumn was worse than the company's expectation in the summer. The company plans to eliminate 15,000 jobs that would be the minimum, Schoellhorn reportedly said.

Ref: https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/airbus- ... 2020-10-05

Or maybe just posturing for union negotiations?

Regardless, no actual job cuts yet.
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mxaxai
Posts: 2552
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: Airbus Cutting 15,000 Jobs

Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:43 pm

Revelation wrote:

From the article:
Schoellhorn reportedly said that the company is in talks with unions on the restructuring, and it is still too early to rule out forced layoffs.

Definitely a threat to the unions to accept management demands or expect forced layoffs.

From the original article https://www.handelsblatt.com/unternehme ... getg1n-ap2 , translated:
Schöllhorn [....]: "We will break down the reduction of the rates proportionally - to some extent - to the locations' sizes. ... We are not moving any work packages across national borders in this adjustment package."

French trade unionists warn that this could primarily affect southern Spain, but also Germany. Schöllhorn denies this, at least for Germany: "I do not see any German sites fundamentally endangered at the moment. ... But it is still too early to talk about site closures. [There are] several countries in which we have significant underutilization of capacity".

Even China, where production was first stopped and then restarted, is not receiving privileged treatment. "At the moment, we are working less in China just like in the rest of the world," Schöllhorn explains. The management has considered expanding capacity in China, but this only makes sense "if we get enough orders and the crisis is behind us at some point".


I am fascinated how concerned the French unions are for their Spanish and German colleagues. I also see a subliminal threat to the unions to expand China first when deliveries pick up again. But as of yet - no layoffs and ongoing negotations with the unions.
 
pugman211
Posts: 564
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:55 pm

Re: Airbus Cutting 15,000 Jobs

Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:18 pm

All the voluntary redundancies are going first between now and March next year I believe. Then the number crunching will happen to see how many forced redundancies occur (just my take on the situation)
 
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ElroyJetson
Posts: 931
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 5:04 am

Re: Airbus Cutting 15,000 Jobs

Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:41 pm

This is the new reality in the aviation business. I commend Airbus. It sucks for many of the workers, but without cutting costs you go from reduced jobs to no jobs.
 
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mercure1
Posts: 5169
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Aviation sector unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:50 pm

Potential for 15,000 job cuts at Airbus was announced in June.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/30/busi ... -cuts.html
mercure f-wtcc
 
Natflyer
Posts: 655
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:29 pm

Re: Airbus Cutting 15,000 Jobs

Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:39 pm

[list=][/list]
FriscoHeavy wrote:
I didn't see this posted anywhere, but just saw on Fox News that Airbus is cutting at least 15,000 jobs.

Total Bummer.


So you do watch Fox news eh? And won’t wear a mask (another thread). That tells us a few things about you...
 
bob75013
Posts: 1054
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: Aviation sector unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:49 pm

Southwest is telling it's unions that the unions have two options:

1) Absorb pay cuts .or
2) Layoffs

Which will the unions accept?

"Southwest Airlines will cut pay for nonunion workers in January and says union workers must also accept less pay or face furloughs next year as the pandemic continues to hammer the airline business."

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ceo-says ... 04201.html
-
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 25327
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Aviation sector unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:39 pm

Sun County cuts 7% of its workforce (112 jobs) as travel demand sags. CEO says picking up cargo flying is helping save the airline.

https://www.businessinsider.com/sun-cou ... 20-10?IR=T
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
AA100
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:57 am

Cathay Pacific To Axe Cathay Dragon Brand, Shrink by 6,000 Staff

Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:04 pm

Cathay Pacific is set to announce that Cathay Dragon brand will be dropped in the wake of the pandemic. It is not yet clear whether CX will takeover Mainland flying or use HK Express to operate China routes. With this announcement comes 6,000 redundancies - although these will not just be from KA (Cathay Dragon).

Whilst the 6,000 redundancies are big - this is less than industry average due to the recent financial support package raised by the HK Government. More news to follow

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/tra ... -brand-bid
 
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MrHMSH
Posts: 2785
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:32 pm

Re: Cathay Pacific To Axe Cathay Dragon Brand, Shrink by 6,000 Staff

Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:09 pm

Would this mean an SQ-MI style reincorporation of narrowbodies into CX?
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: Cathay Pacific To Axe Cathay Dragon Brand, Shrink by 6,000 Staff

Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:50 pm

Do not discuss moderation in an open forum.
6 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
Antarius
Posts: 3436
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Cathay Pacific To Axe Cathay Dragon Brand, Shrink by 6,000 Staff

Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:11 pm

MrHMSH wrote:
Would this mean an SQ-MI style reincorporation of narrowbodies into CX?


Either that or they go to HK Express
Militant Centrist
Let's all just use some common sense
 
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mercure1
Posts: 5169
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Aviation sector unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:33 pm

Finnair cuts another 700 jobs. Talks ongoing with cabin crew and pilots over larger 2,800 job reduction.

https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/finn ... s/11603513
mercure f-wtcc
 
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hongkongflyer
Posts: 847
Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:23 am

Re: Cathay Pacific To Axe Cathay Dragon Brand, Shrink by 6,000 Staff

Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:31 am

AA100 wrote:
Cathay Pacific is set to announce that Cathay Dragon brand will be dropped in the wake of the pandemic. It is not yet clear whether CX will takeover Mainland flying or use HK Express to operate China routes. With this announcement comes 6,000 redundancies - although these will not just be from KA (Cathay Dragon).

Whilst the 6,000 redundancies are big - this is less than industry average due to the recent financial support package raised by the HK Government. More news to follow

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/tra ... -brand-bid


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