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SR380
Posts: 807
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:57 pm

Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:30 am

Virgin Atlantic ask their staff to take up to 2 month unpaid leaves:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.u ... 05290/amp/

SAS will lay off 90% of their staff:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/simpleflyi ... nsion/amp/

Air France will introduce part time unemployment:

https://www.lefigaro.fr/societes/air-fr ... e-20200316

I could go on and on. It seems this will be the same all across the industry. It is maybe time for government to step in. I don't know much about other countries, but speaking for Swiss International Airlines (in which the government hold still about 20%), I hope the government will step in in order to save jobs, and the airline in what is it an unpredictable events.
 
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Embajador3
Posts: 294
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Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:57 pm

Airlines in Spain are temporarely laying off staff. Those on temporary contracts won't have it renewed either. Some are even grounding their fleets until the situation improves and people are allowed to travel normally again.
Flying Together
 
TW870
Posts: 1143
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:01 am

Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:47 pm

Silver1SWA wrote:

I feel bad for my wife. She’s a little over a month from passing probation so she would be the first to go and not included in the furlough language if that’s the route UA takes.

Crazy and incredibly sad how fast this happened. A month ago we were in Chicago celebrating the optimistic, bright future ahead for the company.


Hopefully the company will agree to a deal to protect the probationaries. I believe that was the case after 9/11, although my memory is a little foggy as so many things happened in a short period of time - like now. I was a UA FA and a union activist. On one of my last trips, I was the purser, and the two other FAs were the two most junior flight attendants at the company. They got the trip from their first sit on reserve. I am almost 100% sure that I flew with one of those flight attendants again after the cutbacks. The union was working with the company to treat the probationaries the same as everyone else despite the policy you name above. The bottom line is just because there is a distinction for those on probation in the contract doesn't mean there can't be a deal to protect people's right to return to the company after the disruption. Very best of luck to you and your wife.
 
jersey777
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:37 pm

Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:28 pm

AA had 4 flight attendant new hire classes in training when this mess started. The first class graduated March 17th. They didn’t send anyone home like they did 9/11. The situation is extremely fluid though.
Last edited by jersey777 on Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
jersey777
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:37 pm

Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:39 pm

jersey777 wrote:
AA had 4 flight attendant new hire classes in training when this mess started. The first class graduated March 17th. They didn’t send anyone home like they did 9/11. The situation is extremely fluid though.



I just read that the remaining classes have been cancelled and that they are sending the trainees home. They will have the ability to come back when conditions improve.
 
mattyfitzg
Posts: 226
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 4:50 pm

Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:20 pm

Situation is very much the same in the U.K.
TUI cancelled all future courses and ended those currently in progress.
EasyJet, Virgin, BA all did the same, Jet2 and BA Cityflyer have cancelled future courses but have agreed to let those in progress finish but it’s a slim chance any of those crew ever get to fly this summer.

Also worth noting the EasyJet, TUI and Virgin cuts for the trainees were outright redundancies, no being put back in the hold pool and offered future roles.
 
AngelsDecay
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:19 pm

Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:10 pm

Two days ago there was an airbus of TAP Portugal doing student circuits at Faro by morning
"Well be thy one,
and wisdom too.
And grew, and joyed in my growth.
From a word to a word, I was lead to a Wyrd.
From a deed, to another deed."
 
catiii
Posts: 3313
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:11 am

jetmatt777 wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
gonnagetbumpy wrote:
Why don't the unions waive dues for a few months to help employees? Aren't they supposed to have the employees' best interest at heart?


At a minimum they should issue a press release that all union executives are taking temporary pay cuts in proportional to their members' income.


LOL - That will be the day. I am as pro-union as they come but there is certainly just as much greed at the top of the union as the top of a company.


It's especially rich that someone like John Samuelsen at TWU does his socialist "workers of the world unite" bs and then takes home a $400K salary and flies around in first class. Such hypocrisy...
 
JumboMaiden
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:28 am

Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:27 pm

How would BA manage the redundancies selection Cruz has said there will be?
One huge list of all fleets combined or by fleet? Crew are not told anything... head of colleague communication
and engagement has blocked access to yammer forums.
Most daily updates telling about what easyjet and others are doing...
 
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LTU330
Posts: 251
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Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread.

Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:54 pm

Eikie wrote:
KLM reduces all employees hours (and pay) to 20%.
The resulting gap is partly filled in by the government, but depending on ongoing talks, either fully OR 70% of the amount you would get when unemployed (which is 1500 euro net per month in this case).

So either a really big decrease in monthly pay, or a little one, pension payments are (mostly) home.


A friend of mine at KLM who is an Aircraft Engineer told me yesterday that KLM are paying 10% and the Government the other 90% of their average net pay over the last three months.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:58 pm

I've been told easyJet Switzerland will stop flying March 24th.
 
Eikie
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Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread.

Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:10 pm

LTU330 wrote:
Eikie wrote:
KLM reduces all employees hours (and pay) to 20%.
The resulting gap is partly filled in by the government, but depending on ongoing talks, either fully OR 70% of the amount you would get when unemployed (which is 1500 euro net per month in this case).

So either a really big decrease in monthly pay, or a little one, pension payments are (mostly) home.


A friend of mine at KLM who is an Aircraft Engineer told me yesterday that KLM are paying 10% and the Government the other 90% of their average net pay over the last three months.

That is correct, the government changed the contribution, as a part of keeping the economy going (it applies to all companies who quality).

One of the conditions is KLM cannot fire anyone (not renewing contracts is allowed) and it goes on for 3 months, with a single extension of another 3 months.
 
mattyfitzg
Posts: 226
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Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:21 pm

JumboMaiden wrote:
How would BA manage the redundancies selection Cruz has said there will be?
One huge list of all fleets combined or by fleet? Crew are not told anything... head of colleague communication
and engagement has blocked access to yammer forums.
Most daily updates telling about what easyjet and others are doing...


I’d imagine they’d prefer to get rid of Worldwide and Euro fleet before Mixed fleet due to their considerably higher costs. But who knows, they’ve been left in the dark about all of this.
I know they cancelled all future and current training courses and made those crews redundant, likewise for all flight crew training courses and command courses.
 
dhawald3
Posts: 19
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Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:08 pm

In IndiGo in India.

CEO taking a 25% pay cut, SVPs & above are taking 20%, VPs & cockpit crew are taking a 15% pay cut, AVPs, Bands D along with cabin crew will take 10% and Band Cs 5%.

Engineers and customer relations people have been spared as of now.
 
jomur
Posts: 276
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Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:17 pm

JumboMaiden wrote:
How would BA manage the redundancies selection Cruz has said there will be?
One huge list of all fleets combined or by fleet? Crew are not told anything... head of colleague communication
and engagement has blocked access to yammer forums.
Most daily updates telling about what easyjet and others are doing...


No need to fire anyone in the UK as the UK Government is going to pay 80% of peoples wages up to £2500 per month if their job is affected by the virus.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2551
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Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:31 pm

The website One Mile at a Time was able to get a copy of the letter sent to congress from U.S. carriers including cargo carriers. In the letter the U.S. carriers are asking for a minimum of $29 Billion dollars in loans/loan guarantees. In the letter signed by most major carriers if the government package hits the $29 Billion dollar mark the airlines will agree not to furlough any employees at least through August 31, 2020 and the airlines agree to end all stock buy backs and end all stock dividends until all loans are repaid.

https://onemileatatime.com/airline-government-aid/

We will see if congress can get this passed.
 
KFTG
Posts: 530
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Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:40 pm

"...until all loans are repaid." Yeah, that isn't going to fly.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:51 pm

KFTG wrote:
"...until all loans are repaid." Yeah, that isn't going to fly.


Why not?

This is the proposal they have sent Congress, not the other way around. They wouldn't have proposed it if they weren't willing to do that.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
KFTG
Posts: 530
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Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:10 am

The airlines are not going to have much negotiating power here. They may get what the way (and I think they need it) but long-term, look for legislation requiring larger "rainy day" funds and a ban on stock buy backs.
 
KFTG
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Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:15 am

I have debated taking one of the various LOAs being offered as well as a reduced schedule. What worries me is taking the reduced schedule and then being considered "part time" in the eyes of the gov't. At which point surely this would lower any unemployment claim I would submit. Is my thinking wrong here?
 
Rosie7
Posts: 13
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Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:21 am

NK FAs are offered for the month of April time off without pay based on seniority . The most senior FAs in each base have the option to bid for this . Each base offers different numbers of this option for bidding ( MCO is offering 99 of these bids, DFW offers 27 ,ACY only offers 3 , etc...). To date there are no other offers and flying for the month of April will happen with the obvious reduction in flying system wide.
 
panam330
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Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:18 am

KFTG wrote:
I have debated taking one of the various LOAs being offered as well as a reduced schedule. What worries me is taking the reduced schedule and then being considered "part time" in the eyes of the gov't. At which point surely this would lower any unemployment claim I would submit. Is my thinking wrong here?

Your thinking is correct, unfortunately. I took a 6 month COLA myself. This is going to be a bumpy ride.
 
ShinyAndChrome
Posts: 215
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Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:54 am

KFTG wrote:
The airlines are not going to have much negotiating power here. They may get what the way (and I think they need it) but long-term, look for legislation requiring larger "rainy day" funds and a ban on stock buy backs.


I probably come off as a broken record at this point, but if these hypothetical requirements come to pass I hope the airlines aren't singled out just for PR points. The fact is that airline liquidity reserves were just as prepared for the "rainy quarter" or "rainy half" we're facing as wide swaths of the rest of the economy, probably more when you consider how many people in other sectors have been involuntarily canned. And even with buybacks (a majority of) airlines haven't even been particularly exceptional in how much they've spent relative to the rest of corporate America.
 
findingnema
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 1:14 am

Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:13 am

catiii wrote:

It's especially rich that someone like John Samuelsen at TWU does his socialist "workers of the world unite" bs and then takes home a $400K salary and flies around in first class. Such hypocrisy...


I suppose the question is what would you deem to be an appropriate salary for a trade union president? There don’t seem to be up to date figures online, but as of 2014 the TWU had over 100,000 members. A president or CEO of a similar sized business would be earning far more than $400K annually.

In the same way that there are bad apples in management and in the C suites at companies around the world, there are for sure bad apples in amongst the union leadership. That said, I’ve always found our reps (workers who take on union responsibilities) and union officers really helpful and willing to put themselves considerably out for others, doing a thankless job that most would not care to do.
My postings on this site are my own and don’t necessarily represent my employer’s positions, strategies or opinions
 
Amsterdam
Posts: 405
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Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread.

Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:42 am

SCQ83 wrote:
Eikie wrote:
Most probably.. But what does that say for people that have to pay the morgage which is based on more than that amount? Pay the taxes based on that house, etc?

And this concerns a lot more than just KLM employees, if this crisis continues for a long time, a lot of houses will be put on sale, without any potential buyers..
And the Netherlands isn't exactly overflowing with affordable houses either to buy or rent.

So 1500 may be enough on paper, it will be a slaughter if all really goes down the drain.


1500 EUR is enough to live in Netherlands. I live in Paris (way more expensive than Amsterdam) and this month will spend less than that due to quarantine (basically paying for housing and food). But I don't have debts and I have a lifestyle well below my means.

Probably when property prices were booming in NL a couple of years ago they were happy about their wealth. And getting a leased Tesla Model X on top of that (there are plenty of them everywhere in NL; I doubt many of them are paid in cash).

But that is life. People living well beyond their means. A lot of people will go bankrupt and will become debt-slaves like in Ireland, Spain or Florida in 2008. You cannot expect governments paying for somebody's luxurious lifestyle when things go bad. If that people had savings, little or no debt and 1500 EUR/month now they would be fine.


This is not true.
Rentals start at above 1000€ a month in most places.
Thats without gas electricity etc. and a small apartment.
And you are thinking about a bachelor live.
People have families.
A rental where 4 people can live is minimum 1500€ a month.
What you are saying is totally false.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5597
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread.

Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:00 pm

Amsterdam wrote:
This is not true.
Rentals start at above 1000€ a month in most places.
Thats without gas electricity etc. and a small apartment.
And you are thinking about a bachelor live.
People have families.
A rental where 4 people can live is minimum 1500€ a month.
What you are saying is totally false.


You seem not to know the meaning of "savings" and keeping debt low.

No idea how much a KLM pilot usually makes, but I am sure he or she could have lived a comfortable lifestyle + saved a lot during the good times. No doubt some people might have chose a "luxury lifestyle + 0 savings". Since this is an exceptional situation, 1500 EUR/month + savings should make it.

Of course for people with 0 savings (despite having good salaries) + a lot of debt (mortgage, car leases), that will be catastrophic. But again, you cannot expect a government to bail out your Tesla lease.
 
JumboMaiden
Posts: 20
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Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:59 am

If you're at an airline, how is your airline feeding information through to you?
At BA it has been 5 days since the head of "colleague engagement" disabled all yammer forum links and a Q&A online
form was made available but not one answer has yet appeared.
We want to know how the process of redundancy will be handled since the subject appears four times in the press
in the meantime not to mention many other aspects.
One of my friends asked at Waterside about parked aircraft and was curtly told that that was sensitive information. (Luckilly planespotters
answers that in one clean, clear format)
 
jomur
Posts: 276
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:36 pm

Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:51 pm

JumboMaiden wrote:
If you're at an airline, how is your airline feeding information through to you?
At BA it has been 5 days since the head of "colleague engagement" disabled all yammer forum links and a Q&A online
form was made available but not one answer has yet appeared.
We want to know how the process of redundancy will be handled since the subject appears four times in the press
in the meantime not to mention many other aspects.
One of my friends asked at Waterside about parked aircraft and was curtly told that that was sensitive information. (Luckilly planespotters
answers that in one clean, clear format)


I doubt that at the moment BA will be laying off anyone they employ directly as the UK Government will end up paying 80% up to £2500 per month. IF a company lay off people they don't get the money so most now won't be getting rid of people in the short term. Long term, who knows...

As to parked aircraft why did they even bother to ask, its nothing to do with them unless the are involved in looking after them.
 
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eta unknown
Posts: 2647
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Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:56 pm

Australian travel industry redundancies this week:
Flight Centre: 4500 now 750 staff
Helloworld: 50% gone
Corporate Travel Management 40+% gone
 
catiii
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Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:05 pm

findingnema wrote:
catiii wrote:

It's especially rich that someone like John Samuelsen at TWU does his socialist "workers of the world unite" bs and then takes home a $400K salary and flies around in first class. Such hypocrisy...


I suppose the question is what would you deem to be an appropriate salary for a trade union president? There don’t seem to be up to date figures online, but as of 2014 the TWU had over 100,000 members. A president or CEO of a similar sized business would be earning far more than $400K annually.

In the same way that there are bad apples in management and in the C suites at companies around the world, there are for sure bad apples in amongst the union leadership. That said, I’ve always found our reps (workers who take on union responsibilities) and union officers really helpful and willing to put themselves considerably out for others, doing a thankless job that most would not care to do.


It's the hypocrisy of attacking a ceo for making a certain salary, and then taking a similar salary. It's also the hypocrisy of not sharing the pain with his rank and file who are all going to have to, or have already, given back pay. Same with ALPA and Joe DePete. Same with AFA and Sara Nelson.
 
Sooner787
Posts: 2656
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Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:16 pm

eta unknown wrote:
Australian travel industry redundancies this week:
Flight Centre: 4500 now 750 staff
Helloworld: 50% gone
Corporate Travel Management 40+% gone


Have several friends working at Ovation Travel in US,
appears they've furloughed 2/3 of their agents for 60 days
effective last week , remaining staff 25% paycuts.

Pretty close to what I'm hearing from friends working at other travel agencies in US
 
xwb777
Posts: 702
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:13 pm

Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:14 pm

Not a single Emirates Group employee has been laid off.

I wonder how fragile companies such as Royal Jordanian or Norwegian for example would cope with the situation. The whole RJ fleet is grounded and won't be flying for another three weeks depending on the government directives on whether to extend the airport closure for another extended period.
 
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eta unknown
Posts: 2647
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Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:33 pm

xwb777 wrote:
Not a single Emirates Group employee has been laid off.

... yet.

I do wonder about all the DNATA check-in staff outside DXB with no flights to process.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5597
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:52 pm

xwb777 wrote:
Not a single Emirates Group employee has been laid off.

I wonder how fragile companies such as Royal Jordanian or Norwegian for example would cope with the situation. The whole RJ fleet is grounded and won't be flying for another three weeks depending on the government directives on whether to extend the airport closure for another extended period.


Why would Royal Jordanian need to fire people? Isn't it government-owned?

What is fragile about RJ VS EK?

If anything, I feel a carrier like Royal Jordanian is much more sustainable than Emirates, at least business-wise. RJ mostly serves its home market with some connections. So it is already quite "well sized" for the needs of Jordan. But what about Emirates and its hundreds of planes connecting people via DXB? Dubai and Emirates are the epitome of the hyperglobalized and consumption-excessive world that (at least for now) is falling apart.
 
DarQuiet
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:31 am

Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:39 am

Ammad wrote:
As Airlines are asking and encouraging employees to take paid or unpaid leaves all over the world as Industry is in difficult time.

This thread will keep track of paid/ unpaid leaves and lay offs during this difficult time.

To begin with:

1) Emirates asks pilots to take unpaid leave.
2) Qatar Airway lays off staff.


https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/emir ... 04788.html


Among the set of airline employee carnage, I find Qatar Airways news intriguing that says 200 Filipino technical staff has been laid off.
 
SooLineRob
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:57 am

AFA-CWA President Sara Nelson to U.S. Gov't: "Give us our money."

Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:01 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVgmRkC6Zpo

President Nelson should follow the lead of other union officials and stay away from the press.
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1457
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: AFA-CWA President Sara Nelson to U.S. Gov't: "Give us our money."

Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:03 pm

No, Nancy needs to hear it.
 
SooLineRob
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:57 am

Re: AFA-CWA President Sara Nelson to U.S. Gov't: "Give us our money."

Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:19 pm

No, people need to hear there's a solution for everyone … not just flight attendants or other union workers getting paid to stay home and not work.
 
PhilMcCrackin
Posts: 256
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:54 pm

Re: AFA-CWA President Sara Nelson to U.S. Gov't: "Give us our money."

Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:36 pm

SooLineRob wrote:
No, people need to hear there's a solution for everyone … not just flight attendants or other union workers getting paid to stay home and not work.


I agree with the old man.

Let the airlines burn. They made billions for years by putting the screws to their customers and none of them thought it prudent to save for a rainy day. Now that rainy day has come and despite record profits, they're demanding a handout.
 
Scarebus34
Posts: 496
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:54 pm

Re: AFA-CWA President Sara Nelson to U.S. Gov't: "Give us our money."

Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:39 pm

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
SooLineRob wrote:
No, people need to hear there's a solution for everyone … not just flight attendants or other union workers getting paid to stay home and not work.


I agree with the old man.

Let the airlines burn. They made billions for years by putting the screws to their customers and none of them thought it prudent to save for a rainy day. Now that rainy day has come and despite record profits, they're demanding a handout.

This is ridiculous. You do realize the government is going to pay one way or the other. Either they can provide money to the airlines to pay their employees or the airlines can lay off everyone and the government can pay them through unemployment. It makes far more sense to keep people employed.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: AFA-CWA President Sara Nelson to U.S. Gov't: "Give us our money."

Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:44 pm

PhilMcCrackin wrote:
Let the airlines burn.


Are you lost?
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
SooLineRob
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:57 am

Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:02 pm

Just to clarify: The "optics" of a union leader demanding the government "Give us our money!" aren't going to sit well with people.

We all realize people and businesses are going to need (another) bailout. Who gets what will make the difference in how fast we recover.
 
kyrone
Posts: 156
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:56 pm

Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:05 pm

Have any of the non U.S. Airlines laid off any of their U.S. based staff yet?
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 14777
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:33 pm

Virgin Australia to cut 90% of its flight, Tiger Air to cease flying.

Standing down 8000 staff

Source : https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20200325/ ... y2pwh1.pdf
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
Cmac787
Posts: 85
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Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:41 pm

7119 united flight attendants have signed up for unpaid leave for April
 
usairways787
Posts: 233
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Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:52 pm

Cmac787 wrote:
7119 united flight attendants have signed up for unpaid leave for April



Wow, that's quite a bit. Kudos to them.

US787
 
bigb
Posts: 962
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:30 pm

Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:38 pm

kyrone wrote:
Have any of the non U.S. Airlines laid off any of their U.S. based staff yet?


Yes, Skywest and Commutair have officially laid pilots off.
 
cumulushumilis
Posts: 228
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 8:49 pm

Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:49 pm

https://youtu.be/LUZtW1XXV2s

Video Link to the announcement

WestJet today announced that 6,900 WestJetters will be leaving the organization, with 90 per cent of those leaving voluntarily. The airline had approximately 14,000 employees before this announcement.

“Today, 6,900 WestJetters are receiving notices confirming early retirements, early outs and both voluntary and involuntary leaves,” said Ed Sims, WestJet President and CEO. “This is devastating news for all WestJetters. The fact that we avoided a potentially worse outcome is testament to the spirit and selfless attitude demonstrated by our people, who have enabled WestJet to continue operating with a collective remaining workforce of 7,100.”
 
Pi7472000
Posts: 148
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:26 pm

Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:36 am

SooLineRob wrote:
Just to clarify: The "optics" of a union leader demanding the government "Give us our money!" aren't going to sit well with people.

We all realize people and businesses are going to need (another) bailout. Who gets what will make the difference in how fast we recover.


Would be nice to see a more shared sacrifice at airlines. It is sad everything is based on seniority. Could senior employees take some big paycuts to save junior employees or work less so junior people have a chance? It does not seem right to sacrifice junior people for the benefit of those who have been around longer.

It makes no sense to cut someone just because they have 2 years vs. 15 years. Some of the best service and care I have gotten from UA and DL in the past few years are from their junior employees!! I have awful flights on some long hauls staffed by senior employees who need to retire or find a job that doesn't make them interact with people. It is sad to see great workers let go first! There are some great senior people as well, but it seems like they should have across the board paycuts or cuts in hours to save more people. Just because it is the way it has always been does not make it ethical, fair, or right. I hope any bailout with recognize junior people as they are just starting out.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2551
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: Airlines unpaid leaves and layoffs thread

Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:02 am

Pi7472000 wrote:
Would be nice to see a more shared sacrifice at airlines. It is sad everything is based on seniority. Could senior employees take some big paycuts to save junior employees or work less so junior people have a chance? It does not seem right to sacrifice junior people for the benefit of those who have been around longer.

It makes no sense to cut someone just because they have 2 years vs. 15 years. Some of the best service and care I have gotten from UA and DL in the past few years are from their junior employees!! I have awful flights on some long hauls staffed by senior employees who need to retire or find a job that doesn't make them interact with people. It is sad to see great workers let go first! There are some great senior people as well, but it seems like they should have across the board paycuts or cuts in hours to save more people. Just because it is the way it has always been does not make it ethical, fair, or right. I hope any bailout with recognize junior people as they are just starting out.


I understand the point you are making but it is fundamentally flawed. When you say it needs to be shared sacrifice and airlines should do across the boad paycuts or cut in hours you do realize junior employees will still feel the pain more than a senior employee. Take for instance (and this is just an example) a 13+ year veteran FA here at UA, who is making over $65 dollars an hour and a 2 year FA who is making $30 dollars an hour. If UA were for example to request a 20% reduction in hourly wages or reduce guaranteed flying hours, the 13+ year FA's hourly wage would drop to $52 dollars an hour and the 2 year FA would drop to 24 dollars an hour. I know you want things to be fair but that isn't the way the system works, shared sacrifice means everyone takes a pay cut, however it does not mean everyone will receive equal pay. No matter how you look at it seniority matters and I don't think an airline like DL which has a much smaller union work force would what you are suggesting to their senior employees. Anyone who decides to enter this industry has to understand that for majority of the people in this industry seniority is king, you hate that word when you first start out because you don't have any but you learn to love that word as you see your name climb the seniority list.

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