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Ishrion
Topic Author
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American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:38 pm

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0033-0001

So... that's new.

While United Airlines and PAL are fighting, AA decides to join forces with PAL?

With PAL (planning) to launch MNL-SEA, could we see a tie-up with Alaska?

This is really speculative but... what if the DOT rejects PAL's MNL-SEA flight because of United, so AA launches their own SEA-MNL flight as it's their new "international gateway"?

Of course, this likely wouldn't happen for a while given the global conditions.

Overall, could this lead to Philippine Airlines joining Oneworld?
 
onwFan
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare

Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:05 pm

This is interesting! With both UA and DL already flying their own metal to MNL, a tie-up between AA and PR definitely makes sense. I guess a deeper partnership will happen only if PAL switches from ANA to JAL in Japan. Plus oneworld will be hugely beneficial for PR.

Although, are they only going to codeshare via intermediate points, and not on the non-stop LAX/SFO/JFK-MNL routes? Or, as you say, maybe will AA want to fly SEA-MNL before codesharing on PR's non-stops to the US?
 
Ciel
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:15 pm

AA and PAL were probably in talks before the coronavirus hit hard all the airlines. In the current situation, AA, like most airlines, is in a difficult situation. It is hard for me to see that it will have the means to make a MNL-SEA flight in the foreseeable future.
 
elmothehobo
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:11 pm

Initial request is limited to the following routes:
AA Code on PR operated service between:
TYO-CEB/MNL
MNL-GUM/HNL

PR code on AA operated services:
LAX-ATL/DEN/IAH/LAS/MIA/MSY/MCO/WAS
 
dfw88
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:13 pm

Here's the complete list of codeshare routes, according to the filing (Appendix B):

AA code on PR:
MNL-GUM
MNL-HNL
MNL-NRT/HND
MNL-CEB

PR code on AA:
LAX-ATL
LAX-DEN
LAX-IAH
LAX-LAS
LAX-MSY
LAX-MCO
LAX-IAD/DCA

So no codeshare on the transpac flights or any domestic flights within the Philippines. Interesting.
 
x1234
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:18 pm

This is interesting because Tagalog is the 2nd most spoken asian language in the US after Mandarin Chinese/Cantonese and Filipinos are 2nd most amount of Asia people in the US after the Chinese. DL thinks MNL is high yield enough to start flying from ICN. It looks like AA has more flexibility to serve MNL via code-share with PR with more options instead of just JL or CX. And MNL is north enough for eventually AA starting LAX-MNL with a 789.
 
LurveBus
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:20 pm

Very interesting. Having AA put its code on MNL-GUM is a slap in UA’s face.

The agreement pretty much bolsters PAL’s LAX ops and AA’s NRT ops (though how much service does AA still have at NRT that they haven’t shuffled over to HND yet? And will the Japanese government and/or NH permit an AA code on PR’s Haneda services?

The agreement is an interesting first start. But it remains to be seen if it will blossom into something more.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:22 pm

I see this simply a typical bilateral code-share, nothing larger.

Don't see OW on the horizon for various reasons including ANA now owning a stake in PAL and more likely to steer them into Star if anything, but also because you have key OW hub in HKG only 700miles away.
 
chonetsao
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:58 pm

AA even does not fly to GUM!

How does MNL-GUM materially benefit AA?
 
aaway
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:59 pm

With the exception of the Skyteam flirtation a few years ago, PR had had a fairly close business relationship with AA. Some of that relationship existed outside of the marketing realm. Years ago AA & PR had proposed codeshare that, ultimately, never materialized due to an FAA IASA (International Aviation Safety Assessment) determination that took some time to resolve.
 
chonetsao
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:01 pm

LAXintl wrote:
I see this simply a typical bilateral code-share, nothing larger.

Don't see OW on the horizon for various reasons including ANA now owning a stake in PAL and more likely to steer them into Star if anything, but also because you have key OW hub in HKG only 700miles away.


No offence but it all depends on whether ANA can veto PR's alliance choice. PR may not have deep corporation with JAL but if ANA can not influence PR's boardroom and day to day business decision, PR is a free man.

Without knowing the details of the equity investment and veto powers, I think it is too early to say ANA could veto PR's alliance choice yet.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:02 pm

x1234 wrote:
This is interesting because Tagalog is the 2nd most spoken asian language in the US after Mandarin Chinese/Cantonese and Filipinos are 2nd most amount of Asia people in the US after the Chinese. DL thinks MNL is high yield enough to start flying from ICN. It looks like AA has more flexibility to serve MNL via code-share with PR with more options instead of just JL or CX. And MNL is north enough for eventually AA starting LAX-MNL with a 789.


DL does not think MNL is particualrly high yielding. It is more like KE cannot add more service due to the BASA between South Korea and the Phillipines and DL would otherwise have a plane sitting in ICN overnight so they might as put to to use for the benefit of the JV. AA is probably only interested in a relationship with PR because the political situation in HKG and the US-Japan airport shuffle in TYO has made onward connections to the Phillipines difficult with their exiting partners.
 
onwFan
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:11 pm

LAXintl wrote:
I see this simply a typical bilateral code-share, nothing larger.

Don't see OW on the horizon for various reasons including ANA now owning a stake in PAL and more likely to steer them into Star if anything, but also because you have key OW hub in HKG only 700miles away.

ANA has also invested in VN, a SkyTeam member. Star is even more crowded in sE Asia with Thai and SQ and there is also Eva and Shenzen Air close by. It would be an absolute waste for PR to join Star and become yet another marginal member.

Anyway given the way aviation is headed, you don’t even know which carriers are going to be around and ANA’s investment in PR, or VN is as volatile as the current situation.
 
onwFan
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:13 pm

[threeid][/threeid]
aaway wrote:
With the exception of the Skyteam flirtation a few years ago, PR had had a fairly close business relationship with AA. Some of that relationship existed outside of the marketing realm. Years ago AA & PR had proposed codeshare that, ultimately, never materialized due to an FAA IASA (International Aviation Safety Assessment) determination that took some time to resolve.

Indeed - I believe PR still has special prorate aggreements with AA for SAN, LAS, DFW and ORD through LAX.
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
Posts: 3637
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:22 pm

chonetsao wrote:
AA even does not fly to GUM!

How does MNL-GUM materially benefit AA?


LurveBus wrote:
Very interesting. Having AA put its code on MNL-GUM is a slap in UA’s face.


What he said. United is trying to add more frequencies on GUM-MNL but the authorities are rejecting United's request.
 
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Devilfish
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:47 pm

chonetsao wrote:
Without knowing the details of the equity investment and veto powers, I think it is too early to say ANA could veto PR's alliance choice yet.

It's only a 9.5% stake and ANA Holdings' president did not say anything about a deeper alliance.....

https://www.flightglobal.com/strategy/a ... 14.article


onwFan wrote:
Anyway given the way aviation is headed, you don’t even know which carriers are going to be around and ANA’s investment in PR, or VN is as volatile as the current situation.

Likewise, ANA's president stressed in the link above that there should be a very robust relationship first before any talks of joining an alliance.


usflyer msp wrote:
AA is probably only interested in a relationship with PR because the political situation in HKG and the US-Japan airport shuffle in TYO has made onward connections to the Phillipines difficult with their exiting partners.

No matter if these 'low-yield' passengers could constantly fill a plane both ways? Of course, not during these times. :ill:
 
Byrdluvs747
Posts: 2552
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:03 pm

LurveBus wrote:
And will... NH permit an AA code on PR’s Haneda services?


LAXintl wrote:
Don't see OW on the horizon for various reasons including ANA now owning a stake in PAL and more likely to steer them into Star...


chonetsao wrote:
No offence but it all depends on whether ANA can veto PR's alliance choice. PR may not have deep corporation with JAL but if ANA can not influence PR's boardroom and day to day business decision, PR is a free man. Without knowing the details of the equity investment and veto powers, I think it is too early to say ANA could veto PR's alliance choice yet.


It sounds like everyone is putting way too much importance on NH's investment in PR. Given the equity only amounted to 9.5% of outstanding shares, I can't imagine that PR (also Philippine govt) would give alliance veto or any voting powers for such a small percentage.
 
ahj2000
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:37 pm

This would be quite interesting. PR is quite a large carrier in the US for having no American partner. AA would fit this quite well, as the largest carrier out of LA, and unlike UA, they do have ops out of JFK, so they can offer codeshare there later. If they were to codeshare with AS on top, they could get extra feed on the SFO flight. From what I understand, LAS is a huge destination for VFR and leisure travel to/from Philippines, so the addition of LAS into the "network" of PR is a good move.

I doubt we'll see AA on SEA-MNL anytime soon (who would've thought two months ago that that would ever be a sentence to be considered), but I do think that AA can expand this codeshare to more places in the domestic Philippines over MNL.
 
J343
Posts: 319
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:40 am

Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:22 am

LAXintl wrote:
I see this simply a typical bilateral code-share, nothing larger.

Don't see OW on the horizon for various reasons including ANA now owning a stake in PAL and more likely to steer them into Star if anything, but also because you have key OW hub in HKG only 700miles away.


Star Alliance already made a statement a few years ago that they are not interested in PAL. Star Alliance is already crowded in SE Asia with SQ and tag providing good coverage. Not to mention BR, OZ and NH.

NH’s investment in Vietnam Airlines did not stop them from joining SkyTeam nor did it let them leave SkyTeam for Star Alliance.

It would be good to see PR in oneworld. That way, oneworld would have better coverage in SE Asia complimenting MH and CX with the former having a respectable SE Asia coverage. Not to mention, there were several sources stating that Royal Brunei have thought of joining oneworld connect.
 
carlokiii
Posts: 190
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:03 am

Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:29 am

Byrdluvs747 wrote:
LurveBus wrote:
And will... NH permit an AA code on PR’s Haneda services?


LAXintl wrote:
Don't see OW on the horizon for various reasons including ANA now owning a stake in PAL and more likely to steer them into Star...


chonetsao wrote:
No offence but it all depends on whether ANA can veto PR's alliance choice. PR may not have deep corporation with JAL but if ANA can not influence PR's boardroom and day to day business decision, PR is a free man. Without knowing the details of the equity investment and veto powers, I think it is too early to say ANA could veto PR's alliance choice yet.


It sounds like everyone is putting way too much importance on NH's investment in PR. Given the equity only amounted to 9.5% of outstanding shares, I can't imagine that PR (also Philippine govt) would give alliance veto or any voting powers for such a small percentage.

ANA has such a small share I doubt they will have a material influence in any alliance decision. Neither can the Philippine Government as PR is a publicly-listed company with a majority share from a private entity.
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:40 am

I thought the latest rumor was that PR was interested in joining SkyTeam instead? Oneworld wouldn't be out of the question since there were rumors of PR joining them before MH did, though with the NH investment it's probably less likely now. There were also a theory here or somewhere else where PR would have codeshared with Alaska given the SEA flight.
 
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Antaras
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:25 pm

As both SkyTeam and Star All' have at least two member in the ASEAN region (Garuda Ind & Vietnam Airlines of SkyTeam, Thai & SIA of Star All'); it is necessary for 1world to has one more ASEAN member.
Anyway, congratulation to MH as finally it has a member-mate (as if PR join 1world).
 
raylee67
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:18 pm

AA would probably be interested in flying to MNL from its LAX hub then?
 
Ishrion
Topic Author
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:52 pm

raylee67 wrote:
AA would probably be interested in flying to MNL from its LAX hub then?


That was rumored by JonNYC, so possibly.
 
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eurotrader85
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:09 pm

Codeshares with AA fair enough, but there is no way founding member CX are going to allow, after MH, another S.E. Asian carrier into the alliance as a full member.
 
onwFan
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:27 pm

eurotrader85 wrote:
Codeshares with AA fair enough, but there is no way founding member CX are going to allow, after MH, another S.E. Asian carrier into the alliance as a full member.

You never know how airlines or alliances will look like in the next few months. So I would not rule out anything.
 
J343
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:58 pm

eurotrader85 wrote:
Codeshares with AA fair enough, but there is no way founding member CX are going to allow, after MH, another S.E. Asian carrier into the alliance as a full member.


I don’t see a reason why CX will be opposed to PR joining oneworld. Historically, PR and CX has a good relationship helping each other out. CX took over PR domestic ops during the Asian Financial Crisis and PR did lease Airbus A340-200 to CX.

In fact, there were rumours several years ago stating that PR joining oneworld is supported by CX, JL and AA.
 
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Devilfish
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:23 am

According to Forbes' Will Horton, this is how it's supposed to work.....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... 143be3346d

Quote:
"PAL intends to codeshare on eight of American’s domestic routes from Los Angeles, the U.S. city PAL has the most flights to. American will not codeshare on PAL’s flights between the Philippines and continental U.S. Instead American will fly passengers to Tokyo and then transfer them to PAL’s Tokyo-Manila and Tokyo-Cebu flights. American will also codeshare on PAL’s flights from Manila to Guam and Honolulu, according to a regulatory filing."


Image
https://images.dailyhive.com/2019112513 ... 177935.jpg
 
onwFan
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:31 am

Apparently, UA is determined to block PAL’s access to the US by trying to block the AA/PAL partnership:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/business.i ... liance/amp
 
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Antaras
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:32 am

onwFan wrote:
Apparently, UA is determined to block PAL’s access to the US by trying to block the AA/PAL partnership:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/business.i ... liance/amp


:worried:
Don't know what are those US3 carriers thinking?
Is that a scramble between Star and 1world :confused:
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:02 pm

onwFan wrote:
Apparently, UA is determined to block PAL’s access to the US by trying to block the AA/PAL partnership:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/business.i ... liance/amp


With the hate UA seems to have for PR I'm kind of surprised they don't just go the other way and try partnering with PR instead.
 
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Devilfish
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:00 pm

onwFan wrote:
Apparently, UA is determined to block PAL’s access to the US by trying to block the AA/PAL partnership:

The opposition will only get stronger as a partnership would likely skim more of the fast diminishing traffic, taking into consideration the prolonged pandemic and its devastating impact on the market.
 
onwFan
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:02 pm

Devilfish wrote:
onwFan wrote:
Apparently, UA is determined to block PAL’s access to the US by trying to block the AA/PAL partnership:

The opposition will only get stronger as a partnership would likely skim more of the fast diminishing traffic, taking into consideration the prolonged pandemic and its devastating impact on the market.

Come to think of it, will UA be even interested in increasing flights to MNL in the near future? Is it even justifiable to block a partnership given that neither AA nor PAL is seeking to launch new routes? If anything, it should be evident to the DOT that without some sort of partnership, the US would only risk losing some of its already existing flights to MNL.

I think it is highly unlikely that DOT denies both PAL’s requests. At best, UA can hope for DOT to stall MNL-SEA flights as it is a new launch, but I expect the codeshare to be approved - given AA doesn’t even fly to MNL.
 
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Devilfish
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Re: American Airlines and Philippine Airlines Apply For Codeshare - Oneworld Next?

Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:11 pm

We now live in very difficult and uncertain times. I guess we could only wait to see how the cookie crumbles on this one..... :scratchchin: .....

http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/20 ... fault.aspx

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