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x1234
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VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:16 am

I heard VARIG Brazil had a route to both Hong Kong (HKG) and Tokyo (NRT) via Johannesburg/Bangkok and Los Angeles respectively. I also heard LAN Chile started the South Pacific crossing from Chile to New Zealand/Australia in 2001 with the A343X. I also heard Aerolinas Argentinas also flew EZE-AKL-SYD with the A342. Remember this was years before ETOPS 330 with Air New Zealand launching AKL-EZE. Anyone know when the routes started?
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:34 am

Aerolineas Argentinas used to fly to New Zealand and Australia using the 747-200, before changing to A340s. Sorry I don’t know when it started, but I remember it back to the early 1990s.



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myki
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:40 am

AR used to do a triangle route of EZE-RGL-AKL-EZE - did it continue on to SYD? Not sure. I believe that RGL was fuel stop only. Anyway, correct me if I am wrong!

QF offer SYD-SCL

LA offer SCL-AKL-SYD, SCL-SYD and SCL-MEL
In previous times, what is now SCL-IPC-PPT used to continue on and be SCL-IPC-PPT-AKL.

I'm sure there's other crossings of the Pacific as well?
I'd always wondered if PPT could be used as a transfer point from South America to Asia. Yes the airport is not set up for it currently. Not as conveniently placed as HNL but the whole point would be to avoid that dreaded US visa required even for a transfer.
 
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leleko747
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:41 am

Varig used to fly to Japan via Los Angeles using the 707, back in 1970s.
The GRU-GIG-JNB-BKK-HKG route was operated in the 90s, using Boeing 747 and MD-11.
I think Varig also served other Asian destinations, even if briefly.
I wonder when people will understand:
Embraer 190 or simply E190, not ERJ-190. E-Jets are NOT ERJs!
Boeing 747-8, not Boeing 747-800. Same goes for 787.
Airbus A320, not Airbus 320.
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argentinevol98
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:43 am

The AR polar route dates back to the 80s and if I'm not mistaken was the first trans-polar route over Antarctica. The routings used by AR were actually developed by the Argentine military back in the day.

While I'm not a huge Sam Chui fan you might want to check out his Trip Report about this flight. It is one of his earlier reports when it really was him taking cool flights and not a promotional show for a sponsoring airline. The video has a really good conversation between him and the captain who discusses the flight's routing and various associated challenges with it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqWmjtb ... =emb_title
"He sospechado alguna vez que la única cosa sin misterio es la felicidad, porque se justifica por sí sola"-Jorge Luis Borges
 
x1234
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:47 am

Thanks for the replies everyone. I just researched LATAM's B789 (ETOPS 330) crossing deep into antarctica (I'm surprised there's ADS-B receivers there from the antarctica bases there). Interesting routing for sure: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 3#2437ca2d
 
MikeUniformEcho
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:47 am

I'm not sure, but I guess the RG routes were:
GIG-GRU-LAX-NRT
GIG-GRU-LAX-NGO
GIG-GRU-JNB-BKK-HKG
Operated by 747 and MD-11
 
argentinevol98
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:48 am

myki wrote:
AR used to do a triangle route of EZE-RGL-AKL-EZE - did it continue on to SYD? Not sure. I believe that RGL was fuel stop only. Anyway, correct me if I am wrong!


I believe that was the case with the earlier flights on older equipment that lacked range. With the A342s AR was flying EZE-SYD and used AKL as an occasional diversion site if the flight was struggling on fuel (the video I posted above explains this better)
"He sospechado alguna vez que la única cosa sin misterio es la felicidad, porque se justifica por sí sola"-Jorge Luis Borges
 
x1234
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:04 am

Also I heard rumours (this was before the coronavirus scare) Air New Zealand after launching AKL-EWR and possibly AKL-YYZ wants to fly AKL-GRU.
 
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Tabito
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:15 am

RG started their operation to Japan from May 1968, SAO-RIO-LIM-LAX-TYO by 707.
RG also operated RIO-SAO-LAX-NGO by 747-300 from January 1992
 
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ojjunior
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:03 am

MikeUniformEcho wrote:
I'm not sure, but I guess the RG routes were:
GIG-GRU-LAX-NRT
GIG-GRU-LAX-NGO
GIG-GRU-JNB-BKK-HKG
Operated by 747 and MD-11


Exactly.
RG828/829 were the flight numbers to HKG.
Don't recall the Japan bound flight numbers.
Dispatched all of them several times back in the 90s and 00s.
 
LatinPlane
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:03 am

Tabito wrote:
RG started their operation to Japan from May 1968, SAO-RIO-LIM-LAX-TYO by 707.
RG also operated RIO-SAO-LAX-NGO by 747-300 from January 1992


It was actually RIO-LIM-MEX-LAX-HNL-TYO with the 707.
Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
 
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ojjunior
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:11 am

myki wrote:
AR used to do a triangle route of EZE-RGL-AKL-EZE - did it continue on to SYD? Not sure. I believe that RGL was fuel stop only. Anyway, correct me if I am wrong!

QF offer SYD-SCL

LA offer SCL-AKL-SYD, SCL-SYD and SCL-MEL
In previous times, what is now SCL-IPC-PPT used to continue on and be SCL-IPC-PPT-AKL.

I'm sure there's other crossings of the Pacific as well?
I'd always wondered if PPT could be used as a transfer point from South America to Asia. Yes the airport is not set up for it currently. Not as conveniently placed as HNL but the whole point would be to avoid that dreaded US visa required even for a transfer.


Flew AKL-EZE in 2005 with AR and the flight arrived at AKL from SYD.
Remember the smell of new plane, it was an A342, here's a pic I took in EZE upom arrival:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/qEUaBafcC9mMZgUVA
 
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Chasensfo
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:19 am

From the 1998 OAG;

VASP was operating these Asia routes:

GRU-LAX-GMP MD-11
GRU-LAX-KIX MD-11

VARIG was operating these Asia routes:
GIG-GRU-LAX-NGO 747-300
GIG-GRU-LAX-NRT 747-300
GIG-GRU-JNB-DMK-HKG-DMK-JNB-CPT-GRU-GIG MD-11 (yes, CPT was only listed in one direction!)

At the time, no other Latin airlines were serving Asia with scheduled service. Air Europa was doing charter flights between Spain and points in Japan like CTS, SDJ,FUK, ect with 767-300s in the late 1990s.
 
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Tabito
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:25 am

ojjunior wrote:
Don't recall the Japan bound flight numbers.
Dispatched all of them several times back in the 90s and 00s.


RG830 SAO-RIO-LAX-NRT
RG831 NRT-LAX-RIO-SAO
RG832 RIO-SAO-LIM-LAX-NRT
RG833 NRT-LAX-LIM-SAO-RIO
RG834 SAO-RIO-LAX-NRT
RG835 NRT-LAX-RIO-SAO
(Jan 1991)

RG838/JL23 RIO-SAO-LAX-NRT
RG839/JL24 NRT-LAX-SAO-RIO
(Jan 1992)

LatinPlane wrote:
It was actually RIO-LIM-MEX-LAX-HNL-TYO with the 707.


Thank you for the correction!
 
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ojjunior
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:33 am

 
faucett
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:16 am

And AF used to fly LIM-PPT-TYO for a while. I don't recall any details...
faucett
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:50 am

argentinevol98 wrote:
myki wrote:
AR used to do a triangle route of EZE-RGL-AKL-EZE - did it continue on to SYD? Not sure. I believe that RGL was fuel stop only. Anyway, correct me if I am wrong!


I believe that was the case with the earlier flights on older equipment that lacked range. With the A342s AR was flying EZE-SYD and used AKL as an occasional diversion site if the flight was struggling on fuel (the video I posted above explains this better)


The AR A342 allowed the RGL stop to be cut on the EZE-AKL service, AKL was served until 2012, EZE-SYD went non stop until 2014 when the A342 fleet retired.

ojjunior wrote:
myki wrote:
AR used to do a triangle route of EZE-RGL-AKL-EZE - did it continue on to SYD? Not sure. I believe that RGL was fuel stop only. Anyway, correct me if I am wrong!

QF offer SYD-SCL

LA offer SCL-AKL-SYD, SCL-SYD and SCL-MEL
In previous times, what is now SCL-IPC-PPT used to continue on and be SCL-IPC-PPT-AKL.

I'm sure there's other crossings of the Pacific as well?
I'd always wondered if PPT could be used as a transfer point from South America to Asia. Yes the airport is not set up for it currently. Not as conveniently placed as HNL but the whole point would be to avoid that dreaded US visa required even for a transfer.


Flew AKL-EZE in 2005 with AR and the flight arrived at AKL from SYD.
Remember the smell of new plane, it was an A342, here's a pic I took in EZE upom arrival:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/qEUaBafcC9mMZgUVA


New plane? Those A342s were operated by CX and PR from 1994/95, AR got them in 1999.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:51 am

x1234 wrote:
Also I heard rumours (this was before the coronavirus scare) Air New Zealand after launching AKL-EWR and possibly AKL-YYZ wants to fly AKL-GRU.


Yes NZ’s goal is AKL-GRU eventually. Probably some time away yet, more so now.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:18 am

Did the LA 707 terminate in AKL- I thought it was NAN?

The AR 747 initial routing was BUE-RGL (scheduled stop with crew change)-AKL-BUE and later extended to SYD. Then due to lengthy crew trips AR terminated the flight in AKL and took about 90% of the seats on AN's 743 SYD-AKL-SYD service which really operated more like an AR charter.
 
pnolave
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:57 am

LAN-Chile operated a few SCL-PUQ-SYD services with 707s in the mid 1970s. They were the first "Antarctic" services operated by any airline.

As a child I flew on one such service with my mother, and then also flew on the SCL-IPC-PPT services which connected with either QF or UT for the PPT-SYD leg.

I also flew AKL-EZE and EZE-RGL-AKL

The SYD-AKL leg was on AN.
 
jfk777
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 11:36 am

Qantas did fly from Sydney to Buenos Aires, before flying to Santiago,Chile, in the late 1990's two or three times weekly with 744.
 
argentinevol98
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:29 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
The AR A342 allowed the RGL stop to be cut on the EZE-AKL service, AKL was served until 2012, EZE-SYD went non stop until 2014 when the A342 fleet retired.


Thanks, I had forgotten that detail.
"He sospechado alguna vez que la única cosa sin misterio es la felicidad, porque se justifica por sí sola"-Jorge Luis Borges
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:13 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Qantas did fly from Sydney to Buenos Aires, before flying to Santiago,Chile, in the late 1990's two or three times weekly with 744.


Yes that service was SYD-AKL-EZE from 1998-2002. LA replaced it with SYD-AKL-SCL in an A343, QF were meant to take the service over with a 744 but that didn’t happen.
 
jfk777
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:51 pm

ZK-NBT wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Qantas did fly from Sydney to Buenos Aires, before flying to Santiago,Chile, in the late 1990's two or three times weekly with 744.


Yes that service was SYD-AKL-EZE from 1998-2002. LA replaced it with SYD-AKL-SCL in an A343, QF were meant to take the service over with a 744 but that didn’t happen.


After Buenos Aires the Red Roo did start flying to Lan's Santiago hub with a 744 about 3 times weekly. Now that Latam has left Oneworld and joined Delta's family, will Qantas fly again to Chile after the virus ? With the demands which are going to be made on QF's 14 787-9 it would seem they don't have enough 787's. Alan Joyce may want to postpone Project "sunrise", and use some of his 787-9 options.
 
2travel2know2
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:15 pm

faucett wrote:
And AF used to fly LIM-PPT-TYO for a while. I don't recall any details...
Routing was ORY (or CDG) CAY MAO (later dropped) LIM PPT HND.
B707.
AF keep flying CDG/ORY-CAY-LIM for a while after LIM-PPT was discontinued.

If I recall from old Lan Chile timetables, some days per week SCL-IPC-PPT had a NAN tag-on.
While Varig was flying to TYO via LAX, seems some days per week the flight between Brazil and LAX stoped in LIM or it was that the non-stop Brazil LAX were for the TYO flights and the flights ending in LAX were via LIM?
VASP Brazil also flew to the Far East for a while.
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trent768
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:13 pm

Please pardon my ignorance, but what market does this Oceania-S.America caters? Is it mainly VFR or is there a large business ties between the two region? Because the routes has a strict regulation to operate that requires a significant investment (e.g. keeping the A342 or etops 330), so there must be something that justify all the trouble.
 
x1234
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:36 pm

trent768, there are growing business ties and VFR in all of South America and Oceania/Asia. From the west coast of South America (SCL), the fastest way to Asia is via AKL/SYD/MEL. From the east coast of South America the fastest route is via Africa/Europe or the Middle East. QR & EK (with A380) serve GRU and LATAM flies GRU-JNB with a CX onward code-share from JNB to Asia (also code-shares via Europe). Remember South America has global industries from agriculture (largest trading partner of Brazil is China) to aviation (Embraer). Finally AA also flies GRU/EZE-LAX.
 
EddieDude
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:07 pm

In terms of O&D, you could probably add some mining-industry business travel between Australia and Chile/Brazil, some lower-yield tourism from Australia to South America, and some high-yield tourism from Chile/Brazil/Argentina to Australia and New Zealand across the Pacific, and to South Africa across the Atlantic. And I would imagine there is a growing volume of connecting traffic as explained by x1234.
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
SJOtoLIR
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:54 am

Tabito wrote:

RG830 SAO-RIO-LAX-NRT
RG831 NRT-LAX-RIO-SAO
RG832 RIO-SAO-LIM-LAX-NRT
RG833 NRT-LAX-LIM-SAO-RIO
RG834 SAO-RIO-LAX-NRT
RG835 NRT-LAX-RIO-SAO
(Jan 1991)

RG838/JL23 RIO-SAO-LAX-NRT
RG839/JL24 NRT-LAX-SAO-RIO
(Jan 1992)


Image
Source: VARIG Timetable. March 1993.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
LatinPlane
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:19 am

In the 1960s, Varig was striving to be a round-the-world airline. It flew to Tokyo to the West and to Beirut to the East. Varig's ultimate intentions were to link Beirut and Tokyo via Bangkok and Calcutta to close the loop, but this never came to be:

Image
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Dutch
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:38 am

This post brings back a lot of memories from my childhood. An Australian expat family living in Chile from January 1980 onwards for 20 years.
As previously posted, the south pacific route for many years (early-mid 80's) LA used 707's routing SCL-IPC-PPT. In our families case, we then used a mix of PPT-RAR-AKL-SYD or direct PPT-AKL-SYD on NZ DC-10's, or PPT-SYD on QF 742's or PPT-NOU-SYD on UT DC-10's.

I can't remember which year LA swapped over, but they eventually retired the 707's and replaced them with 767's on the SCL-IPC-PPT (and now use the 78's on same route). As discussed earlier, with the introduction of the A340's they also added SCL-AKL-SYD (and now SCL-SYD and SCL-MEL with the 78's).

I also flew the Aerolinea's EZE-RGL-AKL-EZE route numerous times mid-late 80's ! They used their (old) 742's... was always an interesting experience. Landing for the refuel in RGL in the early hours in mid-winter was a pretty violent experience, as you'd have to bolt down the stairs and then run across to the terminal in howling sub-zero winds trying not to freeze... seemed a very LONG way. I clearly recall that they also used to occasionally tow the 742 out to the threshold of the runway before they'd spark up the engines... That is "tight" fuel management. We used to watch the screen (and clock) as the flight progressed over Antartica, nervously waiting for New Zealand to appear. When they swapped to A340's the fun went out of it!
Dutch
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:56 am

jfk777 wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Qantas did fly from Sydney to Buenos Aires, before flying to Santiago,Chile, in the late 1990's two or three times weekly with 744.


Yes that service was SYD-AKL-EZE from 1998-2002. LA replaced it with SYD-AKL-SCL in an A343, QF were meant to take the service over with a 744 but that didn’t happen.


After Buenos Aires the Red Roo did start flying to Lan's Santiago hub with a 744 about 3 times weekly. Now that Latam has left Oneworld and joined Delta's family, will Qantas fly again to Chile after the virus ? With the demands which are going to be made on QF's 14 787-9 it would seem they don't have enough 787's. Alan Joyce may want to postpone Project "sunrise", and use some of his 787-9 options.


QF dropped AKL-EZE in 2002, with LA taking up SYD-AKL-SCL, QF returned to EZE from SYD in 2008 moving to SCL in 2012, LA have since added SYD-SCL and MEL-SCL.

QF will order more 789s one day, now isn’t the time though.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:17 am

What was the VASP MD-11 routing... Rio-Sao Paolo-Los Angeles-Seoul?
 
descl
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Re: VARIG Brazil/LAN Chile/Aerolinas Argentinas routes to Asia/Oceania

Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:23 pm

x1234 wrote:
trent768, there are growing business ties and VFR in all of South America and Oceania/Asia. From the west coast of South America (SCL), the fastest way to Asia is via AKL/SYD/MEL. From the east coast of South America the fastest route is via Africa/Europe or the Middle East. QR & EK (with A380) serve GRU and LATAM flies GRU-JNB with a CX onward code-share from JNB to Asia (also code-shares via Europe). Remember South America has global industries from agriculture (largest trading partner of Brazil is China) to aviation (Embraer). Finally AA also flies GRU/EZE-LAX.

Is true the numbers of connecting passengers to Asia are significant, but the O&D between South America and Oceania is very big: 581.907 with an average fare of $787 each way.
The following list shows the biggest markets between these two regions during 2019:
O&D Pax av. fare
1. SCLSYD: 70.510 $627
2. GRUSYD: 42.845 $699
3. EZESYD: 28.813 $735
4. SCLMEL: 27.953 $788
5. EZEAKL: 26.579 $645
6. LIMSYD: 17.325 $673
7. SCLBNE: 16.191 $1.157
8. GRUAKL: 16.138 $744
9. GRUBNE: 15.834 $681
10. SCLAKL: 15.523 $728

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