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Ionosphere
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Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:08 pm

Compass released a memo today stating that all their remaining flying will end April 7th. Delta flying will end at the end of March. AA flying will end one April 7th due to AA's cuts of LAX flying.

Compass first started flying May 2, 2007 after Northwest bought Independence Air's operating certificate. The first flight was IAD-MSP on a CRJ-200. The first Embraer 175 flight was in August 2007. On July 1, 2010, Delta sold Compass to Trans States Holdings for $20.5 million. In 2015, Compass started flying for American. Their PHX crew base closed earlier this year. The remaining crew bases in LAX & SEA will be closing soon.
Last edited by Ionosphere on Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:10 pm

Sad day
 
Ionosphere
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:12 pm

How can I add the picture of the memo?
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:18 pm

Ionosphere wrote:
How can I add the picture of the memo?

It needs to be linked from an external source or image hosting site. You can't upload images directly, unfortunately.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:24 pm

Might be a silly question, but would this be a quick and easy way for Breeze to obtain their operating certificate or has Neeleman done the startup thing enough times that they don't need the 'easy' route?
 
Ishrion
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:31 pm

 
EMB170
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:36 pm

TSA has already announced they're shutting down. Will G7 be next?
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F9Animal
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:42 pm

Sorry for the stupid question, but... Is Compass just shutting down for now? Or, is Compass literally going out of business? This is just so horrible.
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msp747
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:43 pm

EMB170 wrote:
TSA has already announced they're shutting down. Will G7 be next?

I think G7 is safe, considering they are the sole operator of the CRJ550 at UA and had just signed their deal with them. AX was already going to shut down, this just accelerated their demise. CP was in trouble too.
 
ericm2031
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:46 pm

The writing was already on the wall that they wouldn’t have any flying left after the AA contract was up, which was pretty obvious OO was going to be replacing those with the 20 they bought for AA. The CP birds are owned by AA so I wonder if they’ll have OO fly them in LAX until the new ones arrive and then give them to MQ in DFW? Doesn’t make much sense for MQ to open a small base in LA and OO a small base at DFW on either a short or long term basis.

EMB170 wrote:
TSA has already announced they're shutting down. Will G7 be next?


G7 has a 10 year contract with UA for the CRJ550 so probably not, unless with the cuts they don’t have the capital to make it through the crisis.
 
SocalApproach
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:48 pm

F9Animal wrote:
Sorry for the stupid question, but... Is Compass just shutting down for now? Or, is Compass literally going out of business? This is just so horrible.


They are shutting down permanently. No reason for them to shut down temporarily as they don’t own anything. Without a contract with AA or DL they effectively don’t have an operation
 
nws2002
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:49 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
Might be a silly question, but would this be a quick and easy way for Breeze to obtain their operating certificate or has Neeleman done the startup thing enough times that they don't need the 'easy' route?


The certificate started as Atlantic Coast Airlines which morphed into Independence Air and was then bought by Northwest to create Compass. It totally could continue on to another airline, but maybe Breeze needs the excuse to slow down right now anyways and waiting on government approval could be a good excuse instead of buying another company to get their certificate.
 
F9Animal
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:49 pm

SocalApproach wrote:
F9Animal wrote:
Sorry for the stupid question, but... Is Compass just shutting down for now? Or, is Compass literally going out of business? This is just so horrible.


They are shutting down permanently. No reason for them to shut down temporarily as they don’t own anything. Without a contract with AA or DL they effectively don’t have an operation


Wow... So so awful. I feel so bad for their workers.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
Ishrion
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:51 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong but Trans States Holdings is the parent company of both Compass Airlines and Trans States Airlines, right?
 
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T18
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:55 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but Trans States Holdings is the parent company of both Compass Airlines and Trans States Airlines, right?

Yes, GoJet as well
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william
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:56 pm

The Regional carriers are going to need to find a new business model going forward.
 
alasizon
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:59 pm

william wrote:
The Regional carriers are going to need to find a new business model going forward.


This isn't indicative of that; CP and AX were already hurting and on the way out. It was going to be a miracle if CP survived beyond mid-2021 (when their contract with AA expired) anyhow.
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CriticalPoint
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:01 pm

william wrote:
The Regional carriers are going to need to find a new business model going forward.


Agreed there is no better time than now for the Major airlines to bring the 76 seat jets in house. The true problem with COAs is raising its ugly head. The Majors want to PEK planes but have to pay the regional regardless. Imagine how much money could be saved if the RJ CPAs did not exist.
 
sagechan
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:01 pm

ericm2031 wrote:
The writing was already on the wall that they wouldn’t have any flying left after the AA contract was up, which was pretty obvious OO was going to be replacing those with the 20 they bought for AA. The CP birds are owned by AA so I wonder if they’ll have OO fly them in LAX until the new ones arrive and then give them to MQ in DFW? Doesn’t make much sense for MQ to open a small base in LA and OO a small base at DFW on either a short or long term basis.

EMB170 wrote:
TSA has already announced they're shutting down. Will G7 be next?


G7 has a 10 year contract with UA for the CRJ550 so probably not, unless with the cuts they don’t have the capital to make it through the crisis.


I think they are contractually required to go to MQ.
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airtran737
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:04 pm

ericm2031 wrote:
The writing was already on the wall that they wouldn’t have any flying left after the AA contract was up, which was pretty obvious OO was going to be replacing those with the 20 they bought for AA. The CP birds are owned by AA so I wonder if they’ll have OO fly them in LAX until the new ones arrive and then give them to MQ in DFW? Doesn’t make much sense for MQ to open a small base in LA and OO a small base at DFW on either a short or long term basis.

EMB170 wrote:
TSA has already announced they're shutting down. Will G7 be next?


G7 has a 10 year contract with UA for the CRJ550 so probably not, unless with the cuts they don’t have the capital to make it through the crisis.


It has already been announced to the Envoy employees that the 20 airplanes will all be coming to them.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:09 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
Imagine how much money could be saved if the RJ CPAs did not exist.


That will be something major carriers can fix in bankruptcy with the power of unilateral contract rejection.
 
UA444
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:09 pm

Kind of a last vestige of NW going away. The CP logo is based on the 2003 NWA logo.
 
Rdh3e
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:09 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
william wrote:
The Regional carriers are going to need to find a new business model going forward.


Agreed there is no better time than now for the Major airlines to bring the 76 seat jets in house. The true problem with COAs is raising its ugly head. The Majors want to PEK planes but have to pay the regional regardless. Imagine how much money could be saved if the RJ CPAs did not exist.

That logic makes no sense. The cost structure of the RJ CPA would just be baked into the Major instead - but at even higher labor rates (which have guarantees also). It's six of one, half dozen of the other.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:35 pm

If your airline was struggling before COVID-19, your time is very short.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
Blerg
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 6:51 pm

I don't understand this set up, how is it even profitable for these airlines to operate flights for major carriers? I mean airline margins are already razor thin. How do they make it in the end?
 
alasizon
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:01 pm

Blerg wrote:
I don't understand this set up, how is it even profitable for these airlines to operate flights for major carriers? I mean airline margins are already razor thin. How do they make it in the end?


Since the major airline is taking all the risk, the costs are paid for the capacity regardless of what happens (which is why you are seeing so few regional cancels currently). The margins for the regionals aren't as thin as you think (yields on regional flying are higher than most mainline domestic flying). Even if the carriers make a 4-6% margin; that is still the margin they make and most of it is guaranteed unless the major carrier goes bankrupt or the regional carrier fails to meet its end of the agreement.
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strfyr51
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:15 pm

william wrote:
The Regional carriers are going to need to find a new business model going forward.

Yeah. Like operating under their OWN colors and running a business instead of a taxi service.
 
SPREE34
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:48 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
william wrote:
The Regional carriers are going to need to find a new business model going forward.

Yeah. Like operating under their OWN colors and running a business instead of a taxi service.


That^^^^^^. Transparency for the customer as well. It worked well in the past. You knew you had gotten off of Delta, United, etc and gotten on to ASA, Sunwest, or whatever.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 7:53 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
william wrote:
The Regional carriers are going to need to find a new business model going forward.

Yeah. Like operating under their OWN colors and running a business instead of a taxi service.


To be fair, the majors are the ones who have forced this issue. They've continually pushed and paid for the continuity of service. They've set the schedules for the regionals to tie into their own banks and network strategy, they've handled all of the ticketing and marketing. The cat is out of the bag and I don't see it returning anytime soon, or at all.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:01 pm

SPREE34 wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
william wrote:
The Regional carriers are going to need to find a new business model going forward.

Yeah. Like operating under their OWN colors and running a business instead of a taxi service.


That^^^^^^. Transparency for the customer as well. It worked well in the past. You knew you had gotten off of Delta, United, etc and gotten on to ASA, Sunwest, or whatever.


Wow this maybe be the ONLY post in Airliners.net history where Sunwest has been mentioned. I’m shocked people still know who that was!
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:03 pm

nws2002 wrote:

The certificate started as Atlantic Coast Airlines which morphed into Independence Air and was then bought by Northwest to create Compass. It totally could continue on to another airline, but maybe Breeze needs the excuse to slow down right now anyways and waiting on government approval could be a good excuse instead of buying another company to get their certificate.


I didn't realize that. I worked for DH (ACA) years ago. Good company. I got out as they were launching Independence Air. I knew starting an airline with RJs wouldn't last. Another of many bad decisions in the airline biz. RIP to Compass and I wish all their employees the best. Good chance I still know a few peeps there.

Was talking about this today with a friend: Isn't it crazy how just a month or two ago we were all worried about a pilot shortage...that feels like a distant memory now. I think it will be a long time until we see a recovery to December service levels. Perhaps measured in years.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
INFINITI329
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Thu Mar 19, 2020 8:31 pm

Ishrion wrote:
https://mobile.twitter.com/CaptainBobbie/status/1240673935559016448

Here it is


I see they were not naive about the end of the contract with American
 
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JBo
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:47 am

william wrote:
The Regional carriers are going to need to find a new business model going forward.


MIflyer12 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
Imagine how much money could be saved if the RJ CPAs did not exist.


That will be something major carriers can fix in bankruptcy with the power of unilateral contract rejection.


alasizon wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I don't understand this set up, how is it even profitable for these airlines to operate flights for major carriers? I mean airline margins are already razor thin. How do they make it in the end?


Since the major airline is taking all the risk, the costs are paid for the capacity regardless of what happens (which is why you are seeing so few regional cancels currently). The margins for the regionals aren't as thin as you think (yields on regional flying are higher than most mainline domestic flying). Even if the carriers make a 4-6% margin; that is still the margin they make and most of it is guaranteed unless the major carrier goes bankrupt or the regional carrier fails to meet its end of the agreement.


The biggest hurdle preventing the mainline carriers from bringing the regional flying under the mainline umbrella are the crew unions. Mainline pilots' unions aren't willing to fly regional aircraft at regional payscales. So the question then becomes, "Which is cheaper?":

A) Contracting with a third-party carrier to provide regional lift at a contracted rate that covers all of that carriers' operating costs, including flight crew payroll, administrative/ops payroll, aircraft maintenance, training, etc. and so on.

or B) Operating those regional aircraft at the mainline level, with flight crews at mainline pay scales.

Apparently, A is still cheaper, or else they'd have started phasing out regional contracts and bringing the aircraft into mainline a long time ago.

And for the regional carriers, it's far more financially secure for them to operate under CPAs with mainline carriers than it is for them to operate under independent brands -- I mean, how many profitable, successful, independent regionals are there in the US? Very, very few.

All of that said, I have a feeling that the landscape is going to change significantly in the next few years with the Big Three and their regional partners as the smaller operators either consolidate with the largers or otherwise phase themselves out.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:02 am

They’re blaming the shutdown on the coronavirus. Imo they were having problems long before then.

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RyanairGuru
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:12 am

JBo wrote:
william wrote:
The Regional carriers are going to need to find a new business model going forward.


MIflyer12 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
Imagine how much money could be saved if the RJ CPAs did not exist.


That will be something major carriers can fix in bankruptcy with the power of unilateral contract rejection.


alasizon wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I don't understand this set up, how is it even profitable for these airlines to operate flights for major carriers? I mean airline margins are already razor thin. How do they make it in the end?


Since the major airline is taking all the risk, the costs are paid for the capacity regardless of what happens (which is why you are seeing so few regional cancels currently). The margins for the regionals aren't as thin as you think (yields on regional flying are higher than most mainline domestic flying). Even if the carriers make a 4-6% margin; that is still the margin they make and most of it is guaranteed unless the major carrier goes bankrupt or the regional carrier fails to meet its end of the agreement.


The biggest hurdle preventing the mainline carriers from bringing the regional flying under the mainline umbrella are the crew unions. Mainline pilots' unions aren't willing to fly regional aircraft at regional payscales. So the question then becomes, "Which is cheaper?":

A) Contracting with a third-party carrier to provide regional lift at a contracted rate that covers all of that carriers' operating costs, including flight crew payroll, administrative/ops payroll, aircraft maintenance, training, etc. and so on.

or B) Operating those regional aircraft at the mainline level, with flight crews at mainline pay scales.

Apparently, A is still cheaper, or else they'd have started phasing out regional contracts and bringing the aircraft into mainline a long time ago.

And for the regional carriers, it's far more financially secure for them to operate under CPAs with mainline carriers than it is for them to operate under independent brands -- I mean, how many profitable, successful, independent regionals are there in the US? Very, very few.

All of that said, I have a feeling that the landscape is going to change significantly in the next few years with the Big Three and their regional partners as the smaller operators either consolidate with the largers or otherwise phase themselves out.


IIRC Scott Kirby commented on this a year or so ago. He said that even if the pilots agreed to regional wages for large RJs (on the basis that Republic wages at United is still better than Republic wages at Republic), if that flying was operated in-house it would still be more expensive as ground handling would be in-sourced, maintenance would be done by mainline mechanics, dispatch would be done to done by mainline dispatchers etc. Basically he made it clear that even if ALPA was willing to concede on wages in return for tightening scope, they still wouldn't bring regional flying back in-house. IMHO that work should be done by mainline staff regardless, but that cat was let out of the bag a long time ago and the airlines will make sure that it stays that way.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
strfyr51
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:32 am

nws2002 wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
Might be a silly question, but would this be a quick and easy way for Breeze to obtain their operating certificate or has Neeleman done the startup thing enough times that they don't need the 'easy' route?


The certificate started as Atlantic Coast Airlines which morphed into Independence Air and was then bought by Northwest to create Compass. It totally could continue on to another airline, but maybe Breeze needs the excuse to slow down right now anyways and waiting on government approval could be a good excuse instead of buying another company to get their certificate.

they need to go back and re-think their operating strategy where they build an airline that's NOT based on chasing airplanes owned by someone else and spreading thermselves like peanut butter all over the place.base and operate in a region of the country and build a route network there that gives excellent regional service to a major hub and might have 2-3 hubs in it's network as extemsions of their route structure like the north central where a regional might start with Chicago Milwaukee and Detroit at the top and spread south to Indianapolis, Nashville, St Louis. and maybe even Kansas City, MO. and not only fly Passengers during the day but even package freight at night.
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:35 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
JBo wrote:
william wrote:
The Regional carriers are going to need to find a new business model going forward.


MIflyer12 wrote:

That will be something major carriers can fix in bankruptcy with the power of unilateral contract rejection.


alasizon wrote:

Since the major airline is taking all the risk, the costs are paid for the capacity regardless of what happens (which is why you are seeing so few regional cancels currently). The margins for the regionals aren't as thin as you think (yields on regional flying are higher than most mainline domestic flying). Even if the carriers make a 4-6% margin; that is still the margin they make and most of it is guaranteed unless the major carrier goes bankrupt or the regional carrier fails to meet its end of the agreement.


The biggest hurdle preventing the mainline carriers from bringing the regional flying under the mainline umbrella are the crew unions. Mainline pilots' unions aren't willing to fly regional aircraft at regional payscales. So the question then becomes, "Which is cheaper?":

A) Contracting with a third-party carrier to provide regional lift at a contracted rate that covers all of that carriers' operating costs, including flight crew payroll, administrative/ops payroll, aircraft maintenance, training, etc. and so on.

or B) Operating those regional aircraft at the mainline level, with flight crews at mainline pay scales.

Apparently, A is still cheaper, or else they'd have started phasing out regional contracts and bringing the aircraft into mainline a long time ago.

And for the regional carriers, it's far more financially secure for them to operate under CPAs with mainline carriers than it is for them to operate under independent brands -- I mean, how many profitable, successful, independent regionals are there in the US? Very, very few.

All of that said, I have a feeling that the landscape is going to change significantly in the next few years with the Big Three and their regional partners as the smaller operators either consolidate with the largers or otherwise phase themselves out.


IIRC Scott Kirby commented on this a year or so ago. He said that even if the pilots agreed to regional wages for large RJs (on the basis that Republic wages at United is still better than Republic wages at Republic), if that flying was operated in-house it would still be more expensive as ground handling would be in-sourced, maintenance would be done by mainline mechanics, dispatch would be done to done by mainline dispatchers etc. Basically he made it clear that even if ALPA was willing to concede on wages in return for tightening scope, they still wouldn't bring regional flying back in-house. IMHO that work should be done by mainline staff regardless, but that cat was let out of the bag a long time ago and the airlines will make sure that it stays that way.


We are currently standing in the middle of 1945 Hiroshima......what rises from these ashes will be nothing like it was before.....I hope it is better. Business plans will change and a lot can happen when employees step up in big ways to save a company.

We shall see but I would love to see 50 seaters gone and everything else mainline. Then we could have TRUE regionals under their own brand bringing smaller towns into hubs.
 
tcfc424
Posts: 580
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:47 am

I felt like when Expressjet was wholly owned by CO, they had a good operation and it was reliable. Additionally, they offered a flow-through to CO that was desirable for regional pilots and FA's. Could we see some airlines go the same route...eliminating Mesa and Republic and bringing that flying under the parent corp umbrella? In some cases, I think the major owns the 76-seaters anyway? It would provide stability for pilots and FA's...quality control by the major...and likely bring overall wages up as well.

I know there was some distance put in this realm after the Comair crash in LEX when Comair was wholly owned by DL, but isn't Envoy owned by AAL? What about DL...don't they have a wholly owned regional entity again?

Ultimately, flying is going to be slow to start back up, depending upon how long this "pause" lasts...but with the Spring Breakers in Miami, it could be a long while...the flying public has shown an affinity for the 76-seat RJ's and a clear dislike for the 50-seat flying. Bringing 76+ in house would allow greater flexibility and the 50 seat could still be done by (much) smaller regional partners. Considering the 76+ fly more than 3-hour routes, that's hardly "regional" anymore.
 
n7371f
Posts: 1836
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:49 am

Feel terrible for the many find flight attendants and pilots I met over the years flying Compass throughout the west on the DL network and before the merger, a lot through MEM. Fine people.

However I must say how poorly managed and ran Compass was. The frontline people were robbed by a cheap, incompetent management that continued, time and again, to fail meet basic Delta contract minimums. Their west coast performance was a constant headache for DAL. Hence while Delta finally pulled the plug on its 36 owned E75's to Republic and SkyWest. It was honestly an industry surprise DAL didn't pull the planes earlier.

It's not fair to the front line people at all. But Rick Leach and his gang run terrible regional operations. GoJet was just as god awful for DAL that they chose to get out. AA choosing to dump them is really no surprise. I got to a point where I would look for, and avoid, booking Compass-operated flights the past few years due to their operational incompetence.

But that's not fair to the pilots and flight attendants who by a far majority were good folk.

And Breeze will not be buying the Compass cert. Their application is fully submitted and the decision was made at the beginning to have an operating certificate unique to Breeze and void of having to deviate around issues with someone else's FAA cert.
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 939
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:53 pm

Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:53 am

airtran737 wrote:
ericm2031 wrote:
The writing was already on the wall that they wouldn’t have any flying left after the AA contract was up, which was pretty obvious OO was going to be replacing those with the 20 they bought for AA. The CP birds are owned by AA so I wonder if they’ll have OO fly them in LAX until the new ones arrive and then give them to MQ in DFW? Doesn’t make much sense for MQ to open a small base in LA and OO a small base at DFW on either a short or long term basis.

EMB170 wrote:
TSA has already announced they're shutting down. Will G7 be next?


G7 has a 10 year contract with UA for the CRJ550 so probably not, unless with the cuts they don’t have the capital to make it through the crisis.


It has already been announced to the Envoy employees that the 20 airplanes will all be coming to them.

Hulas should have taken the Money two years ago, when it was on the table....
 
USAirKid
Posts: 660
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:42 am

Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:08 am

tcfc424 wrote:
I felt like when Expressjet was wholly owned by CO, they had a good operation and it was reliable. Additionally, they offered a flow-through to CO that was desirable for regional pilots and FA's. Could we see some airlines go the same route...eliminating Mesa and Republic and bringing that flying under the parent corp umbrella? In some cases, I think the major owns the 76-seaters anyway? It would provide stability for pilots and FA's...quality control by the major...and likely bring overall wages up as well.

I know there was some distance put in this realm after the Comair crash in LEX when Comair was wholly owned by DL, but isn't Envoy owned by AAL? What about DL...don't they have a wholly owned regional entity again?

Ultimately, flying is going to be slow to start back up, depending upon how long this "pause" lasts...but with the Spring Breakers in Miami, it could be a long while...the flying public has shown an affinity for the 76-seat RJ's and a clear dislike for the 50-seat flying. Bringing 76+ in house would allow greater flexibility and the 50 seat could still be done by (much) smaller regional partners. Considering the 76+ fly more than 3-hour routes, that's hardly "regional" anymore.


The majors or their holding companies do own regional airlines.

American Airlines Group owns four airlines: American Airlines, PSA Airlines, Envoy Airlines, and Piedmont Airlines. Three of those are regionals.
United and United Airlines Holdings doesn't technically own any regional airlines since UA's contract with the flight attendants says any wholly owned regional needs to have their flight attendants represented by the same union that represents UA's flight attendants.
Delta Airlines owns Endeavor Air.
Alaska Air Group owns two airlines: Alaska Airlines and Horizon Airlines.
 
ScottB
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:12 am

SPREE34 wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
william wrote:
The Regional carriers are going to need to find a new business model going forward.

Yeah. Like operating under their OWN colors and running a business instead of a taxi service.


That^^^^^^. Transparency for the customer as well. It worked well in the past. You knew you had gotten off of Delta, United, etc and gotten on to ASA, Sunwest, or whatever.


So, you do realize that the evolution of regional carriers into a fee-for-departure model was pretty much entirely driven by the legacy carriers, right? The legacy carriers saw the regionals posting enormous margins back in the 1990s and wanted to keep most of that money for themselves. Delta bought Comair for a whopping $1.8 billion back in 1999 because Comair was very profitable at the time. UA went with fee-for-departure due to contractual limitations.

Over time, the legacy carriers have exerted an increasing amount of control over the regional carrier products in their networks. They want the travel experience on their regional partners to be as consistent as possible with mainline. And they want customers to be loyal AA/UA/DL passengers, rather than to identify their experience with SkyWest, Republic, ExpressJet, Compass, etc. In small markets where most service is on regional carriers -- take JAN as an example -- a passenger loyal to a regional carrier rather than a mainline carrier may choose their itinerary on price or convenience rather than brand loyalty to AA/UA/DL.

Further, the legacy carriers want to control the regional networks and pricing because the regionals are key to driving higher margins. The regional carriers give the legacies access to smaller markets which are generally uneconomic for LCC operators -- at least with schedules attractive to business passengers. Without control over the regionals, a passenger could choose, for example, to fly on WN or F9 to DEN and then onward to GTF on OO. With UA controlling pricing on the DEN-GTF segment, passengers generally won't use a competitor to DEN and UA can drive a higher margin on the entire itinerary.

strfyr51 wrote:
they need to go back and re-think their operating strategy where they build an airline that's NOT based on chasing airplanes owned by someone else and spreading thermselves like peanut butter all over the place.base and operate in a region of the country and build a route network there that gives excellent regional service to a major hub and might have 2-3 hubs in it's network


That operating strategy again has been driven by the mainline carriers. In part it was about insulating the network from potential disruptions at a regional carrier. Delta was burned quite badly by the strike at Comair in 2001 -- the hub at CVG was crippled and MCO also suffered. They couldn't replace the flying either as unionized pilots at mainline wouldn't fly the OH routes as those were struck work. So Delta and the other carriers adapted by spreading the regionals all around to avoid a repeat of the operational impact of the OH strike. (The IT meltdown at Comair at the end of 2004 also had a similar impact.)
 
n797mx
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:09 am

INFINITI329 wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
https://mobile.twitter.com/CaptainBobbie/status/1240673935559016448

Here it is


I see they were not naive about the end of the contract with American




lavalampluva wrote:
They’re blaming the shutdown on the coronavirus. Imo they were having problems long before then.

http://m.startribune.com/twin-cities-ba ... 568939812/



They aren't blaming it on the Coronavirus. Once DL pulled out their fate was sealed either way. People at MQ have been expecting this for some time and even the email eludes to the fact that it was going to happen.

What they are blaming on the Coronavirus is how quickly it came about. The AA contract still has time on it, but Compass remaining open during that time is basically burning money in a pit for both companies. More so than before the crisis.
Clear skies and strong tail winds.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:46 am

JBo wrote:
[
The biggest hurdle preventing the mainline carriers from bringing the regional flying under the mainline umbrella are the crew unions. Mainline pilots' unions aren't willing to fly regional aircraft at regional payscales. So the question then becomes, "Which is cheaper?":

A) Contracting with a third-party carrier to provide regional lift at a contracted rate that covers all of that carriers' operating costs, including flight crew payroll, administrative/ops payroll, aircraft maintenance, training, etc. and so on.

or B) Operating those regional aircraft at the mainline level, with flight crews at mainline pay scales.

Apparently, A is still cheaper, or else they'd have started phasing out regional contracts and bringing the aircraft into mainline a long time ago.


Delta has been doing it differently from UA for eight years, starting with the 717s and now the A221s. DL has less reliance on RJs (as % of ASMs) than AA or UA.
 
oosnowrat
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:09 pm

tcfc424 wrote:
Considering the 76+ fly more than 3-hour routes, that's hardly "regional" anymore.


Geography doesn't define the likes of SkyWest, Mesa, etc. anymore -- it's the aircraft size. "Regional" is more appropriate for Cape Air, Southern, Boutique, etc.
 
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FiscAutTecGarte
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:37 pm

I've flown on quite a number of flights that bore the 'Operated by Compass Airlines' tag... Sad to see them go... as it means job losses.
learning never stops...

FischAutoTechGarten is the full handle and it reflects my interest. It's abbreviated to fit A.net short usernames.
 
GSPSPOT
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Re: Compass Airlines Shutting Down

Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:42 am

CriticalPoint wrote:

We are currently standing in the middle of 1945 Hiroshima......what rises from these ashes will be nothing like it was before.....I hope it is better. Business plans will change and a lot can happen when employees step up in big ways to save a company.

We shall see but I would love to see 50 seaters gone and everything else mainline. Then we could have TRUE regionals under their own brand bringing smaller towns into hubs.

AMEN! I'm thinking a bit of the deregulated environment mixed with the way major airlines & regional carriers interacted "back in the day". Would be better for everyone IMO.
Great Lakes, great life.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4435
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Compass Airlines Last Revenue Flight

Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:51 pm

Hey guys. Appears Compass Airlines last revenue flight is due to depart Tulsa soon. AA6047 TUL to LAX. Any a.netters catching a ride on this last flight? Or anyone at Tulsa able to get some pics of the departure?
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
CWL757
Posts: 116
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Re: Compass Airlines Last Revenue Flight

Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:29 pm

AA6047 in cancelled according to FR24.
A319, A320, 738, 743, 744, 752, 772, 788, C150, E175, E190, F70, R22
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4435
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

Re: Compass Airlines Last Revenue Flight

Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:41 pm

CWL757 wrote:
AA6047 in cancelled according to FR24.



Something is funky with FR24 today. I just checked and it departed the gate a few minutes ago.
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