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AMP44
Topic Author
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:01 pm

AZ Repaint Status?

Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:04 pm

Alitalia launched a new livery back in 2015. Some part of the fleet has been repainted, despite the airline loosing money daily. However, not all planes have been repainted into the new livery. Does anyone have an update as to which aircraft have been repainted already? What is the plan for Cityliner, as non of their planes have been repainted?
 
KFTG
Posts: 864
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:08 am

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:05 pm

Whatever the plan was, I'm sure it's shelved.
 
DALCE
Posts: 1977
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:45 pm

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:17 pm

nobody cares about that now.... keep flying and don't go bust before Christmas is a challenge for any airline....any airline
flown: F50,F70,CR1,CR2,CR9,223,E75,E90,143,AR8,AR1,733,735,736,73G,738,
753,763,744,77W,788,319,320,321,333,AB6.
 
abcgogo
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:57 am

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:39 pm

I think Alitalia messed up with the whole re-branding exercise. The airline was losing lots of money, so what do they do ? They get an (I assume) expensive, complicated, time-intensive, paint scheme that uses many colors, gradients, finishes (pearlescant and solid finish). We can see from some pics of their aircraft having mismatched engine-panels (old-livery panels on new-livery aircraft), that the costs of repainting the old-panels is clearly too high to be justified.

Ideally, they should have gone ahead with a eurowhite livery, preferably a simple, small black-&-white scheme where the font & tail-logo are black. Something like JAL or Pan-Am or Swiss-International-Air-Lines or Lufthansa (new livery), not the Air-New-Zealand type because even that might be a bit expensive. Having a simple livery would have made integration of leased aircraft easier as well from a branding perspective.
 
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readytotaxi
Posts: 7473
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:46 pm

No point in repainting a corpse, is there?
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
tootallsd
Posts: 527
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:02 pm

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:05 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
No point in repainting a corpse, is there?


Only for the funeral.
 
kaitak
Posts: 9932
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:39 pm

It would be akin to Capt Smith (of the Titanic) telling some of the ship's maintenance crew to repaint some of the exterior - after the iceberg had been struck ...

I have a feeling Alitalia will see us all out! Nothing seems to sink them!
 
NYCVIE
Posts: 289
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:01 pm

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:57 pm

Is the new branding still valid? It looks like on their website they've gone back to the pre-Etihad branding.
 
AMP44
Topic Author
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:01 pm

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:29 pm

NYCVIE wrote:
Is the new branding still valid? It looks like on their website they've gone back to the pre-Etihad branding.


Good point. They seem to have ditched the colour gradient but kept the new logo with pre-Etihad colours. Curiously, the first A330 repainted also has that old-new combination, instead of the new logo.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2839
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:10 pm

DALCE wrote:
nobody cares about that now.... keep flying and don't go bust before Christmas is a challenge for any airline....any airline


Except for invincible AZ. Seems they can break Euro subsidy laws in perpetuity and get away with it.
 
UA444
Posts: 2997
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:29 pm

This airline has cheated death so many times. It’s actually amazing at this point
 
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usdcaguy
Posts: 1538
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:41 pm

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:15 pm

The new livery is really nice and makes the branding look a little more premium. I for one have always liked Alitalia's branding and uniforms, though I have not always liked their inflight service. Although AZ will be saved by the Italian government, the Italian taxpayers will not be saved. God bless them.
 
MartijnNL
Posts: 999
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:44 am

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:38 pm

When this corona crisis is over I will try to book a return ticket to Italy with them. As I did three years ago when they were on the brink of collapse, at least that was what the information on this website told me. It turned out not to be true. Or maybe it was true, who knows, this airline has been on live support forever. Travelling on Alitalia was actually a good experience.
 
LAXffDUB
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:05 pm

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:54 am

Lived in Italy for several years; the ongoing soap opera of its fate was a regular staple of Italian politics. Citizens knew the government would always intervene to shore up the airline despite EU prohibitions and the growing chorus of taxpayer voices. Its unions were a source of votes and patronage for many MPs.

In many ways it has become a zombie carrier...albeit a well dressed one!
 
ro318
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:52 pm

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:11 am

AMP44 wrote:
NYCVIE wrote:
Is the new branding still valid? It looks like on their website they've gone back to the pre-Etihad branding.


Good point. They seem to have ditched the colour gradient but kept the new logo with pre-Etihad colours. Curiously, the first A330 repainted also has that old-new combination, instead of the new logo.


The fleet page on their website shows this
https://www.alitalia.com/en_us/fly-alit ... fleet.html
Last edited by ro318 on Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
ro318
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:52 pm

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:11 am

AMP44 wrote:
NYCVIE wrote:
Is the new branding still valid? It looks like on their website they've gone back to the pre-Etihad branding.


Good point. They seem to have ditched the colour gradient but kept the new logo with pre-Etihad colours. Curiously, the first A330 repainted also has that old-new combination, instead of the new logo.


The fleet page on their website shows this
https://www.alitalia.com/en_us/fly-alit ... fleet.html
 
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Antaras
Posts: 904
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:18 am

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:21 am

A carrier with weak financial base should not repaint a large number of aircraft.....
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Cointrin330
Posts: 2067
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:21 pm

abcgogo wrote:
I think Alitalia messed up with the whole re-branding exercise. The airline was losing lots of money, so what do they do ? They get an (I assume) expensive, complicated, time-intensive, paint scheme that uses many colors, gradients, finishes (pearlescant and solid finish). We can see from some pics of their aircraft having mismatched engine-panels (old-livery panels on new-livery aircraft), that the costs of repainting the old-panels is clearly too high to be justified.

Ideally, they should have gone ahead with a eurowhite livery, preferably a simple, small black-&-white scheme where the font & tail-logo are black. Something like JAL or Pan-Am or Swiss-International-Air-Lines or Lufthansa (new livery), not the Air-New-Zealand type because even that might be a bit expensive. Having a simple livery would have made integration of leased aircraft easier as well from a branding perspective.


Didn't Etihad pay for the rebrand and cabin refits back in 2014-2015 when it invested in AZ? Obviously, the repainting was never completed and AZ was left with a costly job to finish amid no money but government subsidies (all pre-COVID19). In any case, the repainting is now a moot point. AZ is like a cat but with 900 not 9 lives. It will survive this.
 
AMP44
Topic Author
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:01 pm

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:52 pm

ro318 wrote:
AMP44 wrote:
NYCVIE wrote:
Is the new branding still valid? It looks like on their website they've gone back to the pre-Etihad branding.


Good point. They seem to have ditched the colour gradient but kept the new logo with pre-Etihad colours. Curiously, the first A330 repainted also has that old-new combination, instead of the new logo.


The fleet page on their website shows this
https://www.alitalia.com/en_us/fly-alit ... fleet.html


Saw it on their in-flight magazine as well, but non of the E190s and E175s have that livery. All have the pre-2015 livery.
 
ro318
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:52 pm

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:03 pm

AMP44 wrote:
ro318 wrote:
AMP44 wrote:

Good point. They seem to have ditched the colour gradient but kept the new logo with pre-Etihad colours. Curiously, the first A330 repainted also has that old-new combination, instead of the new logo.


The fleet page on their website shows this
https://www.alitalia.com/en_us/fly-alit ... fleet.html


Saw it on their in-flight magazine as well, but non of the E190s and E175s have that livery. All have the pre-2015 livery.


Correct and I doubt the E jets will be repainted any time soon tbh
 
abcgogo
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:57 am

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:24 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
abcgogo wrote:
I think Alitalia messed up with the whole re-branding exercise. The airline was losing lots of money, so what do they do ? They get an (I assume) expensive, complicated, time-intensive, paint scheme that uses many colors, gradients, finishes (pearlescant and solid finish). We can see from some pics of their aircraft having mismatched engine-panels (old-livery panels on new-livery aircraft), that the costs of repainting the old-panels is clearly too high to be justified.

Ideally, they should have gone ahead with a eurowhite livery, preferably a simple, small black-&-white scheme where the font & tail-logo are black. Something like JAL or Pan-Am or Swiss-International-Air-Lines or Lufthansa (new livery), not the Air-New-Zealand type because even that might be a bit expensive. Having a simple livery would have made integration of leased aircraft easier as well from a branding perspective.


Didn't Etihad pay for the rebrand and cabin refits back in 2014-2015 when it invested in AZ? Obviously, the repainting was never completed and AZ was left with a costly job to finish amid no money but government subsidies (all pre-COVID19). In any case, the repainting is now a moot point. AZ is like a cat but with 900 not 9 lives. It will survive this.


My point was that Etihad made the problem worse. Giving an expensive rebranding with an especially expensive paint job to a struggling airline that survives hand-to-mouth, is not a smart idea. Alitalia should have gone the way of JAL, with a simple eurowhite scheme until they were profitable enough to justify more lavish paint schemes.

Yes, repainting has been a moot point from quite a while. Looks like Air-India (AI) and Alitalia (AZ) have done A-to-Z of what is possible to keep an noncompetitive, overburdened airline alive for as long as possible.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 2067
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:07 pm

abcgogo wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
abcgogo wrote:
I think Alitalia messed up with the whole re-branding exercise. The airline was losing lots of money, so what do they do ? They get an (I assume) expensive, complicated, time-intensive, paint scheme that uses many colors, gradients, finishes (pearlescant and solid finish). We can see from some pics of their aircraft having mismatched engine-panels (old-livery panels on new-livery aircraft), that the costs of repainting the old-panels is clearly too high to be justified.

Ideally, they should have gone ahead with a eurowhite livery, preferably a simple, small black-&-white scheme where the font & tail-logo are black. Something like JAL or Pan-Am or Swiss-International-Air-Lines or Lufthansa (new livery), not the Air-New-Zealand type because even that might be a bit expensive. Having a simple livery would have made integration of leased aircraft easier as well from a branding perspective.


Didn't Etihad pay for the rebrand and cabin refits back in 2014-2015 when it invested in AZ? Obviously, the repainting was never completed and AZ was left with a costly job to finish amid no money but government subsidies (all pre-COVID19). In any case, the repainting is now a moot point. AZ is like a cat but with 900 not 9 lives. It will survive this.


My point was that Etihad made the problem worse. Giving an expensive rebranding with an especially expensive paint job to a struggling airline that survives hand-to-mouth, is not a smart idea. Alitalia should have gone the way of JAL, with a simple eurowhite scheme until they were profitable enough to justify more lavish paint schemes.

Yes, repainting has been a moot point from quite a while. Looks like Air-India (AI) and Alitalia (AZ) have done A-to-Z of what is possible to keep an noncompetitive, overburdened airline alive for as long as possible.


Understood. The bigger issue was Etihad and its ambitious and ultimately disastrous investment in AZ and AB, among other airlines, that took it very close to the brink, among the ME3. Etihad essentially undertook a massive marketing effort when it came to AZ, but it really never led to anything substantive being resolved network, workforce, or structure wise.
 
abcgogo
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:57 am

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:25 am

Cointrin330 wrote:

Understood. The bigger issue was Etihad and its ambitious and ultimately disastrous investment in AZ and AB, among other airlines, that took it very close to the brink, among the ME3. Etihad essentially undertook a massive marketing effort when it came to AZ, but it really never led to anything substantive being resolved network, workforce, or structure wise.


Agreed.
 
AMP44
Topic Author
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:01 pm

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:47 am

Cointrin330 wrote:
abcgogo wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:

Didn't Etihad pay for the rebrand and cabin refits back in 2014-2015 when it invested in AZ? Obviously, the repainting was never completed and AZ was left with a costly job to finish amid no money but government subsidies (all pre-COVID19). In any case, the repainting is now a moot point. AZ is like a cat but with 900 not 9 lives. It will survive this.


My point was that Etihad made the problem worse. Giving an expensive rebranding with an especially expensive paint job to a struggling airline that survives hand-to-mouth, is not a smart idea. Alitalia should have gone the way of JAL, with a simple eurowhite scheme until they were profitable enough to justify more lavish paint schemes.

Yes, repainting has been a moot point from quite a while. Looks like Air-India (AI) and Alitalia (AZ) have done A-to-Z of what is possible to keep an noncompetitive, overburdened airline alive for as long as possible.


Understood. The bigger issue was Etihad and its ambitious and ultimately disastrous investment in AZ and AB, among other airlines, that took it very close to the brink, among the ME3. Etihad essentially undertook a massive marketing effort when it came to AZ, but it really never led to anything substantive being resolved network, workforce, or structure wise.

Do have to say that AZ's marketing after the Etihad deal was impressive, and the livery remains one of the nicest ones around. But yes, no real change happened to network, workforce, or structure wise.
 
abcgogo
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:57 am

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:47 pm

AMP44 wrote:
Do have to say that AZ's marketing after the Etihad deal was impressive, and the livery remains one of the nicest ones around. But yes, no real change happened to network, workforce, or structure wise.


Beautiful ? Yes. Necessary ? No.
-------------

Same thing was done by Air-India. They too went with an expensive paint scheme ---

-> 5 colours (pearl white, red, orange, green, blue)
-> multiple design elements (painted engines, painted belly, painted vertical stabilizer, partially painted tail section, the flower/sun design elements on the engines and vertical stabilizer, palace window design, stripes under the windows, name of aircraft, national-flag)
-> "prone to fading design unless heavily maintained" choices (painted engines, painted vertical stabilizare, etc.) which will fade (look at BA landor & new livery, LAN-Chile livery, etc.)


-------------

Now Alitalia did a similar, or actually worse choice by going with a more elaborate paint scheme ---

-> many colors (pearl white, solid white, shades of green, shades of red, black)
-> stripes in solid-white color in front of the painted tail section; stripes in the red-color section of the livery in the tail & vertical stabilizer region.
-> painted tail & vertical stabilizer that uses all sorts of shades and also uses gradients


-------------

Such financially troubled airlines, going for such irresponsible choices is really something we have got used to over time. Elaborate paint schemes suit airlines like Singapore-Airlines, Etihad-Airways, etc. who are truly luxurious and/or have deep pockets due to rich governments. Even Cathay-Pacific simplified it's paint scheme, although it was/is far more premium (even in it's worst times) than Air-India and Alitalia have ever been till date.

Ideally, they (AI, AZ) should have gone for paintschemes like JAL. What I like about JAL is that it really is a premium airline, even though it looks like a simple one, whereas AI and AZ try really hard to fool with their superficial "premium" liveries when in fact they are absolutely terrible or tolerable at most.

 
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PatrickZ80
Posts: 4285
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:33 am

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:02 pm

abcgogo wrote:
Now Alitalia did a similar, or actually worse choice by going with a more elaborate paint scheme ---

-> many colors (pearl white, solid white, shades of green, shades of red, black)
-> stripes in solid-white color in front of the painted tail section; stripes in the red-color section of the livery in the tail & vertical stabilizer region.
-> painted tail & vertical stabilizer that uses all sorts of shades and also uses gradients


Such things used to matter a few decades ago. With the new computerized painting techniques it doesn't matter anymore how complicate the paint scheme is or how many colors are used. It's basically "printed" on the aircraft, the computer does all the work. And for a computer it doesn't matter if it has to print a simple or complicated paint scheme, textures are textures regardless of any colors or gradients.

That's the reason we're seeing so many gradient paint schemes these days, something which would have been impossible before computerized painting was introduced. The current Alitalia livery wouldn't have been possible to paint back then, now it's a piece of cake.
 
smi0006
Posts: 2571
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:45 am

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:43 pm

UA444 wrote:
This airline has cheated death so many times. It’s actually amazing at this point


Agreed - likely surviving airlines from this disaster - AZ,SA,AR....
 
AMP44
Topic Author
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:01 pm

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:30 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
The current Alitalia livery wouldn't have been possible to paint back then, now it's a piece of cake.

Piece of cake or not, it's more expensive to paint and maintain than JAL (for example).
 
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WROORD
Posts: 747
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:36 pm

Re: AZ Repaint Status?

Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:05 pm

The Italian government is again promising a 'new" Alitalia. The airline is organized into a new company every few years however the old problems remain the same. Hopefully, the new owners will stop wasting money for repainting the aircraft and concentrate on what really matters. The old livery was much better anyways.

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