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twinotter
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:06 pm

jordanh wrote:
Alaska Air downgraded to “BB+” from “BBB-”American Airlines downgraded by one notch to “B”JetBlue Airways downgraded to “BB” from “BB+”Southwest downgraded to “BBB+” from “A-”United Airlines Holdings Inc. downgraded to “BB-” from “BB”[/b]


All are rated below investment grade, commonly referred to as "junk"
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a

Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:14 pm

0newair0 wrote:
Delta has made it clear that furloughs/layoffs are a possibility in the (near) future but are not currently planned. They have said that anyone who has taken leave before or is on leave when a furlough/layoff takes place will be treated no differently than those with an active status throughout the crisis.

Come fall, it is very likely you will have workers who volunteered to take leave get let go, and it is also likely you will have workers that did not volunteer to take leave get let go. These decisions will be based on merit for some and on longevity and other factors for other positions - whether or not you volunteered to take leave will not be a factor.


+1 to all of this.

The question for DL (and all carriers, really) isn't will there be furloughs, but rather:

How many furloughs?
How will leaves/early outs/etc. mitigate those?
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
ERAUMBA
Posts: 43
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:30 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Depends where they are on the seniority list. You’re a B777 captain, it’s a vacation; probationary F/O, yes a lose. I doubt many that are in danger of being furloughed took a LOA.


You aren’t thinking clearly, which is surprising for you. Typically you are spot-on.

Lots of retirements in the last 15 days; pilot training is suspended until at least May 1st, all new hire classes are cancelled. Training planners are reaching out to inform those poor souls of their unfortunate luck right now. Yes, furloughs are coming; advance entitlement bid is indefinitely cancelled. The 88’s are going to the desert faster than you can count; the older 757’s and 767’s will be there by the end of next week.

DALPA and the company are not playing ball well these days; it is the position of the union that the airline’s cash woes will be solved by the bailout package expected from the government and that furloughs, leaves, involuntary leaves are the company’s problem and that all of the cash on hand belongs to the pilot group....DALPA is just playing hardball....

They’re shutting down more than one half of their physical operation at DTW. Total closure of 50+ gates; All of C Concourse is closed, as is the south pier of B Concourse from B18, B20, B21 and total closure of the south end of A concourse, Gates A1 through A29.

Furloughs are coming, Delta fanboys. This isn’t gonna be pretty.

Air travel will not rebound from this for quite some time.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:35 pm

What is an "advance entitlement bid?"
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
0newair0
Posts: 421
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Fri Apr 10, 2020 9:41 pm

NWAESC wrote:
What is an "advance entitlement bid?"
It's the "forum" used to move pilots around between equipment types based on staffing needs. Pilots get to bid on the positions they hold based on preference. The bids are awarded based on seniority.
That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:05 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
DL execs did LOVE to talk about that investment-grade rating and earnings multiple comparisons to 'other high-quality industrial transportation companies.'


If I had a nickel for every time I've had to see/read that in company communications...



0newair0 wrote:
It's the "forum" used to move pilots around between equipment types based on staffing needs. Pilots get to bid on the positions they hold based on preference. The bids are awarded based on seniority.


Thank you.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
2175301
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:01 am

Has Delta negotiated and accepted the US Government Grant yet? I know that they applied (as did United, American, Jet Blue). However, there were terms to be negotiated. Any word on where that stands?

Have a great day,
 
0newair0
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:02 am

2175301 wrote:
Has Delta negotiated and accepted the US Government Grant yet? I know that they applied (as did United, American, Jet Blue). However, there were terms to be negotiated. Any word on where that stands?

Have a great day,
Not yet. Hopefully more news this coming week.
That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
 
AABB777
Posts: 574
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a

Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:37 am

0newair0 wrote:
2175301 wrote:
Has Delta negotiated and accepted the US Government Grant yet? I know that they applied (as did United, American, Jet Blue). However, there were terms to be negotiated. Any word on where that stands?

Have a great day,
Not yet. Hopefully more news this coming week.


Delta has filed a Request for Exemption from Service Obligation regarding minimum service requirements tied to coronavirus relief.

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0037-0057
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1051
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a

Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:01 am

AABB777 wrote:
0newair0 wrote:
2175301 wrote:
Has Delta negotiated and accepted the US Government Grant yet? I know that they applied (as did United, American, Jet Blue). However, there were terms to be negotiated. Any word on where that stands?

Have a great day,
Not yet. Hopefully more news this coming week.


Delta has filed a Request for Exemption from Service Obligation regarding minimum service requirements tied to coronavirus relief.

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0037-0057

I don’t think their argument regarding STT and STX hold much weight. The governor may have in essence closed the door to tourism however, there is no ban on commercial flights and residents of both islands are still permitted to fly to the mainland US and anyone from the mainland US is still allowed to travel to both islands once they are staying at a private residence. Obviously traffic will be near nonexistent however it will be that way for a number of domestic destinations that DL will be required to serve anyway. This is purely a commercial request.

The summer seasonal destination requests have a lot more merit.
 
CRJ5000
Posts: 147
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a

Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:24 am

Brickell305 wrote:
AABB777 wrote:
0newair0 wrote:
Not yet. Hopefully more news this coming week.


Delta has filed a Request for Exemption from Service Obligation regarding minimum service requirements tied to coronavirus relief.

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... -0037-0057

I don’t think their argument regarding STT and STX hold much weight. The governor may have in essence closed the door to tourism however, there is no ban on commercial flights and residents of both islands are still permitted to fly to the mainland US and anyone from the mainland US is still allowed to travel to both islands once they are staying at a private residence. Obviously traffic will be near nonexistent however it will be that way for a number of domestic destinations that DL will be required to serve anyway. This is purely a commercial request.

The summer seasonal destination requests have a lot more merit.


I agree with your point but hope the government allows their exemption. They're absolutely right, there is enough demand on OAL to suffice. Why force them to lose more money so that you can give them money? They comparatively didn't ask for too many exemptions as some other airlines, especially considering the size of their network.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:31 am

So if a Delta employee takes a leave of absence, they can sign up for Unemployment?
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    crj900lr
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    Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

    Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:54 am

    MohawkWeekend wrote:
    So if a Delta employee takes a leave of absence, they can sign up for Unemployment?



    Depends on what each states unemployment benefits are rules wise. Each state is different. I doubt DL would contest it, considering the situation, so it would be up to the state to ok it and give out the cash to the person if it falls within the rules and guidelines that are set up. Best thing to do is file and see what happens.
     
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    NWAESC
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    Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

    Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:49 am

    Delta has stated they will not contest any claims.
    "Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
     
    n7371f
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    Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

    Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:24 am

    Bailout looks more murky with more strings attached by team Mnuchin/Kushner.
     
    WayexTDI
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    Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

    Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:39 pm

    crj900lr wrote:
    MohawkWeekend wrote:
    So if a Delta employee takes a leave of absence, they can sign up for Unemployment?



    Depends on what each states unemployment benefits are rules wise. Each state is different. I doubt DL would contest it, considering the situation, so it would be up to the state to ok it and give out the cash to the person if it falls within the rules and guidelines that are set up. Best thing to do is file and see what happens.

    In GA, LOAs for COVID-19 do qualify for unemployment benefits, if the employer does not contest it; it appears DL has said they would not contest it, so a GA DL employee taking a LOA would qualify for employement benefits.
     
    Ursula21
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    Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

    Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:20 pm

    By the time the dust settled on the rapidly changing LOA options, at least for ground employees, it worked out to one week less of pay through June if an April LOA was taken, plus 2 RT tickets, plus the unemployment insurance and time off, so in many respects the LOA was better especially if there are kids at home.
     
    Dalmd88
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    Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

    Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:28 pm

    MohawkWeekend wrote:
    So if a Delta employee takes a leave of absence, they can sign up for Unemployment?

    In Ga the company automatically applies to the Dept of Labor an unemployment claim for every LOA employee. I think it was a deal between the company and the state. Do a few mass enrollments instead of a lot of individuals enrolling. Those that take the LOA also do not have to do the 25% work week reduction when they return. That reduction is in effect until the end of June. The LOA gives full medical benefits and retains seniority for any future furloughs.

    I think we will see a retirement incentive come out soon. Most likely a medical benefit. For a lot of Tech Ops AMT's that is the main reason they stick around. I know a bunch of mechanics that are in their mid 60's, but their wives are younger and possibly have young adult children on the family medical plan. Their wives don't work for companies that offer decent medical so they stay at Delta just to keep family medical. The 12 month LOA could get some of these guys to leave now. It just depends on how close the wife at home is to Medicare coverage. They take the 12 month LOA, comeback and retire.

    Delta system wide has a huge number of mechanics that are in, or close to the retirement window. Management has to come up with a program to get these guys to retire this year so we don't have to furlough the future of the company. Most of the guys furloughed after 9/11 did not come back. The same will happen here. It takes 3-5 years to fully train most new hire mechanics. If you layoff the guys with less than 6-7 years you have lost all that invested training if they don't come back.
     
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    NWAESC
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    Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

    Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:30 pm

    You can take the LOA at any point between 4/1 and 6/30. If you take 1 week/month, the remainder of your schedule is 100% of your normal hours worked.

    If you take a 30 day (or more) leave at any point of this 90 day period, then everything else is is at 100% of normal hours worked.
    "Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
     
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    NWAESC
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    Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

    Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:33 pm

    DALMD88—

    I think ACS has a ton of people in that same boat. If the Early Out is decent, we’ll see a rush for the exits. If it’s the usual “here’s some passes!” kind of thing, then we won’t.
    "Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
     
    tphuang
    Posts: 5318
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    Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

    Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:50 pm

    Dalmd88 wrote:
    MohawkWeekend wrote:
    So if a Delta employee takes a leave of absence, they can sign up for Unemployment?

    In Ga the company automatically applies to the Dept of Labor an unemployment claim for every LOA employee. I think it was a deal between the company and the state. Do a few mass enrollments instead of a lot of individuals enrolling. Those that take the LOA also do not have to do the 25% work week reduction when they return. That reduction is in effect until the end of June. The LOA gives full medical benefits and retains seniority for any future furloughs.

    I think we will see a retirement incentive come out soon. Most likely a medical benefit. For a lot of Tech Ops AMT's that is the main reason they stick around. I know a bunch of mechanics that are in their mid 60's, but their wives are younger and possibly have young adult children on the family medical plan. Their wives don't work for companies that offer decent medical so they stay at Delta just to keep family medical. The 12 month LOA could get some of these guys to leave now. It just depends on how close the wife at home is to Medicare coverage. They take the 12 month LOA, comeback and retire.

    Delta system wide has a huge number of mechanics that are in, or close to the retirement window. Management has to come up with a program to get these guys to retire this year so we don't have to furlough the future of the company. Most of the guys furloughed after 9/11 did not come back. The same will happen here. It takes 3-5 years to fully train most new hire mechanics. If you layoff the guys with less than 6-7 years you have lost all that invested training if they don't come back.


    I am sure they will incentivize more people to take early retirement but people really need to think about what would happen in the event of chapter 11. Will the court allow delta to get under from these obligations. And same with underfunded pensions.
     
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    NWAESC
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    Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

    Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:54 pm

    Anything’s possible. IMO, most people should be planning on a CH.7 was their “worst case.” Will that happen? Who knows, but now is not the time to be making happy Tik Tok videos for our employee website or deluding ourselves by thinking everything’ll be back to normal by Labor Day.
    "Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
     
    adtall
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    Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

    Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:08 pm

    tphuang wrote:
    Dalmd88 wrote:
    MohawkWeekend wrote:
    So if a Delta employee takes a leave of absence, they can sign up for Unemployment?

    In Ga the company automatically applies to the Dept of Labor an unemployment claim for every LOA employee. I think it was a deal between the company and the state. Do a few mass enrollments instead of a lot of individuals enrolling. Those that take the LOA also do not have to do the 25% work week reduction when they return. That reduction is in effect until the end of June. The LOA gives full medical benefits and retains seniority for any future furloughs.

    I think we will see a retirement incentive come out soon. Most likely a medical benefit. For a lot of Tech Ops AMT's that is the main reason they stick around. I know a bunch of mechanics that are in their mid 60's, but their wives are younger and possibly have young adult children on the family medical plan. Their wives don't work for companies that offer decent medical so they stay at Delta just to keep family medical. The 12 month LOA could get some of these guys to leave now. It just depends on how close the wife at home is to Medicare coverage. They take the 12 month LOA, comeback and retire.

    Delta system wide has a huge number of mechanics that are in, or close to the retirement window. Management has to come up with a program to get these guys to retire this year so we don't have to furlough the future of the company. Most of the guys furloughed after 9/11 did not come back. The same will happen here. It takes 3-5 years to fully train most new hire mechanics. If you layoff the guys with less than 6-7 years you have lost all that invested training if they don't come back.


    I am sure they will incentivize more people to take early retirement but people really need to think about what would happen in the event of chapter 11. Will the court allow delta to get under from these obligations. And same with underfunded pensions.


    Those who would likely be eligible to retire do remember, they were there the last time through and had their pensions already frozen (or PBGC'ed like the PMDL pilots), saw furloughs, and took a 19% pay cut (since then the rate of pay was restored and surpassed, but benefits rates weren't). They know what happens.

    At least where I work, what happened hasn't been forgotten and it's been told to the younger employees, usually in a "enjoy this while it lasts" way. Most older employees I know have provided for an adverse scenario remembering 2004-06. I haven't seen an early retirement package taken back once given to the employee though, unless the employee violates the T&C somehow.

    Further, you seem way too excited reading your posts in the B6 thread and elsewhere over how you think Delta is going to collapse or something and leave Boston and NYC all to B6. You may be a huge B6 booster, sleep on B6 bedsheets, or whatever but rooting for people to be out of work seems a bit over the top. Just saying.
     
    tphuang
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    Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

    Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:26 pm

    adtall wrote:
    tphuang wrote:
    Dalmd88 wrote:
    In Ga the company automatically applies to the Dept of Labor an unemployment claim for every LOA employee. I think it was a deal between the company and the state. Do a few mass enrollments instead of a lot of individuals enrolling. Those that take the LOA also do not have to do the 25% work week reduction when they return. That reduction is in effect until the end of June. The LOA gives full medical benefits and retains seniority for any future furloughs.

    I think we will see a retirement incentive come out soon. Most likely a medical benefit. For a lot of Tech Ops AMT's that is the main reason they stick around. I know a bunch of mechanics that are in their mid 60's, but their wives are younger and possibly have young adult children on the family medical plan. Their wives don't work for companies that offer decent medical so they stay at Delta just to keep family medical. The 12 month LOA could get some of these guys to leave now. It just depends on how close the wife at home is to Medicare coverage. They take the 12 month LOA, comeback and retire.

    Delta system wide has a huge number of mechanics that are in, or close to the retirement window. Management has to come up with a program to get these guys to retire this year so we don't have to furlough the future of the company. Most of the guys furloughed after 9/11 did not come back. The same will happen here. It takes 3-5 years to fully train most new hire mechanics. If you layoff the guys with less than 6-7 years you have lost all that invested training if they don't come back.


    I am sure they will incentivize more people to take early retirement but people really need to think about what would happen in the event of chapter 11. Will the court allow delta to get under from these obligations. And same with underfunded pensions.


    Those who would likely be eligible to retire do remember, they were there the last time through and had their pensions already frozen (or PBGC'ed like the PMDL pilots), saw furloughs, and took a 19% pay cut (since then the rate of pay was restored and surpassed, but benefits rates weren't). They know what happens.

    At least where I work, what happened hasn't been forgotten and it's been told to the younger employees, usually in a "enjoy this while it lasts" way. Most older employees I know have provided for an adverse scenario remembering 2004-06. I haven't seen an early retirement package taken back once given to the employee though, unless the employee violates the T&C somehow.

    Further, you seem way too excited reading your posts in the B6 thread and elsewhere over how you think Delta is going to collapse or something and leave Boston and NYC all to B6. You may be a huge B6 booster, sleep on B6 bedsheets, or whatever but rooting for people to be out of work seems a bit over the top. Just saying.


    It seems like you have mistaken what i said about aa with dl. Delta is fully committed to nyc. I have never said anything otherwise. And you seem to ignore that i said if legacies are going to be 30% smaller a year from now, then JetBlue will be at least 10% smaller.

    But then again it has always been easier to make personal attacks. I am sure Nothing I listed here has not been discussed among delta employees.
     
    MohawkWeekend
    Posts: 271
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    Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

    Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:41 pm

    The unemployment benefits during the LOA might be one of the hang-ups that appear to be occurring now with the bailout. Airlines were supposed to use the grant to keep employees on the payroll, no?
      300 319 320 321 707 717 720 727 72S 737 73S 734 735 73G 738 739 747 757 762 ARJ B11 C212 CRJ CR2 CR7 CR9 CV5 D8S DC9 D9S D94 D95 D10 DH8 DTO EMB EM2 E135 E145 E190 FH7 F28 F100 FTRIMTR HRN L10 L15 M80 M90 SF3 SWM YS11
       
      0newair0
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      Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

      Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:57 pm

      MohawkWeekend wrote:
      The unemployment benefits during the LOA might be one of the hang-ups that appear to be occurring now with the bailout. Airlines were supposed to use the grant to keep employees on the payroll, no?
      It's not one of the hangups. It's completely voluntary.
      That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
       
      nwadeicer
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      Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

      Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:49 am

      To my understanding, in ATL there is now a waitlist for the voluntary leaves, both above and below wing. Being somebody with some seniority I would love to get some sort of package, fortunately I do not need any medical benefits. Give me some cold hard cash and i'm out. You want us dinosaurs gone then make it happen.
      I miss the Red Tail
       
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      flymco753
      Posts: 3387
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      Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

      Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:57 pm

      nwadeicer wrote:
      To my understanding, in ATL there is now a waitlist for the voluntary leaves, both above and below wing. Being somebody with some seniority I would love to get some sort of package, fortunately I do not need any medical benefits. Give me some cold hard cash and i'm out. You want us dinosaurs gone then make it happen.
      Have you seen the average seniority in stations like FLL, MCO, DTW, MSP, & SLC? Half of DTW & MSP is still North Central and Republic. Half of SLC is Western. Majority of MCO & FLL are Southern, Pan Am, or very old Delta that can recall the era of taking deliveries of the DC-8 (1959 I believe).
      ...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
       
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      NWAESC
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      Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

      Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:42 pm

      Small stations too. Where’re you going here?
      "Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
       
      nwadeicer
      Posts: 310
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      Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

      Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:14 pm

      flymco753 wrote:
      nwadeicer wrote:
      To my understanding, in ATL there is now a waitlist for the voluntary leaves, both above and below wing. Being somebody with some seniority I would love to get some sort of package, fortunately I do not need any medical benefits. Give me some cold hard cash and i'm out. You want us dinosaurs gone then make it happen.
      Have you seen the average seniority in stations like FLL, MCO, DTW, MSP, & SLC? Half of DTW & MSP is still North Central and Republic. Half of SLC is Western. Majority of MCO & FLL are Southern, Pan Am, or very old Delta that can recall the era of taking deliveries of the DC-8 (1959 I believe).


      Kind of lost me on this one? There are tons of stations with senior people. You're a tad off on the MSP numbers, seeing i'm MSP I can tell you with certainty that if anything it's majority NWA and then DL with a few Republic guys still around. What is worrisome is what will happen in October. My feelings are the 9/11 furloughs will be but a drop in the bucket to what is coming. It's not going to be pretty.So again, on that note, Delta needs to reach deep down, take the financial hit, and propose a retirement package that those of us with some time will snap up.
      I miss the Red Tail
       
      0newair0
      Posts: 421
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      Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

      Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:24 pm

      nwadeicer wrote:
      What is worrisome is what will happen in October. My feelings are the 9/11 furloughs will be but a drop in the bucket to what is coming. It's not going to be pretty.So again, on that note, Delta needs to reach deep down, take the financial hit, and propose a retirement package that those of us with some time will snap up.


      That's going to happen, but earliest would be May.

      25-30,000 people being laid off from each of big 3 after September 30 is probably not a bad estimate.
      That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
       
      CobaltScar
      Posts: 752
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      Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

      Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:12 pm

      MohawkWeekend wrote:
      The unemployment benefits during the LOA might be one of the hang-ups that appear to be occurring now with the bailout. Airlines were supposed to use the grant to keep employees on the payroll, no?


      The government needs to follow this money and make sure every penny is going into employee compensation. Very irritated with "certain airlines" giving out 18 hour a month leaves and expecting them to make up the difference with unemployment. Where is the $$ going????
      Last edited by CobaltScar on Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
       
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      NWAESC
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      Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

      Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:12 pm

      I’m open to any legitimate offer.
      "Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
       
      CobaltScar
      Posts: 752
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      Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

      Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:14 pm

      NWAESC wrote:
      I’m open to any legitimate offer.


      Implement mandatory hours per month and watch the senior people retire en-mass. Zero offers necessary.
       
      0newair0
      Posts: 421
      Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:21 am

      Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

      Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:15 pm

      CobaltScar wrote:
      MohawkWeekend wrote:
      The unemployment benefits during the LOA might be one of the hang-ups that appear to be occurring now with the bailout. Airlines were supposed to use the grant to keep employees on the payroll, no?


      The government needs to follow this money and make sure every penny is going into employee compensation. Very irritated with "certain airlines" giving out 18 hour a month leaves and expecting them to make up the difference with unemployment. Where is the $$ going????
      What do you mean by "where is it going"? It's going towards payroll expenses. There was never a requirement for the money to be spent by September 30. If people voluntarily accept an LOA that will lengthen the usefulness of the grants.
      That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
       
      User avatar
      NWAESC
      Posts: 1602
      Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 pm

      Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

      Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:20 pm

        CobaltScar wrote:
        Implement mandatory hours per month and watch the senior people retire en-mass. Zero offers necessary.


        I don’t know anyone with any kind of time that trades much, let alone gets rid of most of their hours. Dropping a ton of hours has never been a thing here. Maybe I just missed it.
        "Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
         
        jayunited
        Posts: 2957
        Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

        Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

        Sun Apr 12, 2020 11:23 pm

        CobaltScar wrote:
        NWAESC wrote:
        I’m open to any legitimate offer.


        Implement mandatory hours per month and watch the senior people retire en-mass. Zero offers necessary.


        Although I work for UA if DL wants senior "top scale" employees to go they will have to come with a serious offer which would most certainly would need to include cash and some type of heath benefits bridge that will bridge the gap for people who do not yet qualify for medicare. This is also true here are United, if UA wants senior top scale employees to go it is going to cost money, and I would estimate that any cash offer below $100,000 dollars would not be taken seriously especially once taxes are taken out. If these airlines truly believe the effects of COVID-19 will be felt long term then they need to take a larger short term loss by paying high seniority employees to retire early so that it lowers their employee cost long term.

        Personally I think airlines like AA, DL, UA and WN should offer any employee 60 years and older who has at least 15 years seniority an early out package and again if they add the additional benefit of health insurance or some type of health insurance bridge to get people to medicare I think a lot of people would give it serious consideration and probably take the offer.
         
        jfern022
        Posts: 183
        Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:24 pm

        Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

        Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:36 am

        The last two early outs DL offered had no medical, hence the low acceptance.

        I know many people who said if DL offered medical and nothing else, they’d take it in a heartbeat.
         
        Insertnamehere
        Posts: 333
        Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:44 am

        Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

        Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:31 am

        Did Delta execute any loans with any large banks? I know Jetblue about a month ago took out a $1,000,000,000 loan with Morgan Stanley, effectively maxing out their credit card, is Delta doing the same or are they going to rely on taxpayers to bail them out?


        Source on the Jetblue Loan: https://seekingalpha.com/news/3552833-j ... nding-line
         
        0newair0
        Posts: 421
        Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:21 am

        Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

        Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:35 am

        Insertnamehere wrote:
        Did Delta execute any loans with any large banks? I know Jetblue about a month ago took out a $1,000,000,000 loan with Morgan Stanley, effectively maxing out their credit card, is Delta doing the same or are they going to rely on taxpayers to bail them out?


        Source on the Jetblue Loan: https://seekingalpha.com/news/3552833-j ... nding-line
        Yes, Delta is drawing on lines of credit and is working on opening more lines in the coming weeks.
        That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
         
        panamair
        Posts: 4343
        Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

        Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

        Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:40 am

        Insertnamehere wrote:
        Did Delta execute any loans with any large banks? I know Jetblue about a month ago took out a $1,000,000,000 loan with Morgan Stanley, effectively maxing out their credit card, is Delta doing the same or are they going to rely on taxpayers to bail them out?


        Source on the Jetblue Loan: https://seekingalpha.com/news/3552833-j ... nding-line


        In late March, Delta drew down $3 billion on an existing revolving credit facility and entered into another $2.6 billion secured credit facility:

        https://news.delta.com/delta-obtains-26 ... t-facility

        Delta has stated from the beginning that they cannot rely on government assistance to weather this situation:

        "....We are in discussions with the White House and Congress regarding the support they can provide to help us through this period. I'm optimistic we will receive their support. That said, the form and value is unpredictable, and we can't put our company's future at risk waiting on aid from our government..."

        https://news.delta.com/ceo-ed-bastian-d ... d-business
         
        User avatar
        Phosphorus
        Posts: 1034
        Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:38 am

        Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

        Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:20 am

        jfern022 wrote:
        The last two early outs DL offered had no medical, hence the low acceptance.

        I know many people who said if DL offered medical and nothing else, they’d take it in a heartbeat.


        Should there be another Ch.11. filing by DL (and/or any other US majors), could retiree medical (and other) benefits be subject to renegotiation/cancellation?
        As retirees are an obvious cost-cutting target for reorganizing company. They worked for "previous incarnation" of the company, unions (should there be any) would prioritize the interests of current members in good standing...
        AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
        Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam
         
        Lootess
        Posts: 489
        Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

        Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

        Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:01 am

        DL had enough cash to basically weather the storm for a few months, the credit facilities give Ed probably until Fall before the government packages. Give or take the LOAs will obviously help the situation.

        DOT Secretary Chao basically made the guidelines flexible on the service obligations. Common sense things like not having to maintain service to multiple airports in a metro like NYC, can just consolidate if-necessary which obviously helped UA. One of which DL wanted was DOT can help determine whether continuing service to certain small markets is "reasonable or practicable", and airlines should submit those exceptions. Flying empty loss-leader routes on government aid dime just isn't necessary, especially with shelter-in-place rules.
         
        User avatar
        flymco753
        Posts: 3387
        Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

        Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

        Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:36 pm

        nwadeicer wrote:
        flymco753 wrote:
        nwadeicer wrote:
        To my understanding, in ATL there is now a waitlist for the voluntary leaves, both above and below wing. Being somebody with some seniority I would love to get some sort of package, fortunately I do not need any medical benefits. Give me some cold hard cash and i'm out. You want us dinosaurs gone then make it happen.
        Have you seen the average seniority in stations like FLL, MCO, DTW, MSP, & SLC? Half of DTW & MSP is still North Central and Republic. Half of SLC is Western. Majority of MCO & FLL are Southern, Pan Am, or very old Delta that can recall the era of taking deliveries of the DC-8 (1959 I believe).


        Kind of lost me on this one? There are tons of stations with senior people. You're a tad off on the MSP numbers, seeing i'm MSP I can tell you with certainty that if anything it's majority NWA and then DL with a few Republic guys still around. What is worrisome is what will happen in October. My feelings are the 9/11 furloughs will be but a drop in the bucket to what is coming. It's not going to be pretty.So again, on that note, Delta needs to reach deep down, take the financial hit, and propose a retirement package that those of us with some time will snap up.
        I was pointing out the seniority that these stations hold. I was just talking to someone at DTW who hired in at North Central in '77 at 17 and has no plans to retire at the moment.
        ...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
         
        Alias1024
        Posts: 2677
        Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

        Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

        Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:52 pm

        panamair wrote:
        Insertnamehere wrote:
        Did Delta execute any loans with any large banks? I know Jetblue about a month ago took out a $1,000,000,000 loan with Morgan Stanley, effectively maxing out their credit card, is Delta doing the same or are they going to rely on taxpayers to bail them out?


        Source on the Jetblue Loan: https://seekingalpha.com/news/3552833-j ... nding-line


        In late March, Delta drew down $3 billion on an existing revolving credit facility and entered into another $2.6 billion secured credit facility:

        https://news.delta.com/delta-obtains-26 ... t-facility

        Delta has stated from the beginning that they cannot rely on government assistance to weather this situation:

        "....We are in discussions with the White House and Congress regarding the support they can provide to help us through this period. I'm optimistic we will receive their support. That said, the form and value is unpredictable, and we can't put our company's future at risk waiting on aid from our government..."

        https://news.delta.com/ceo-ed-bastian-d ... d-business


        Before those Delta also raised $1 billion, backed by aircraft. So the total raised is $6.6 billion.
        It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
         
        Alias1024
        Posts: 2677
        Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

        Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

        Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:05 pm

        Delta is reported to be close to raising another $1 billion in a sale-leaseback transaction. That would bring total cash raised since the beginning of the crisis to $7.6 billion.

        http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... or-u-s-aid
        It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
         
        tphuang
        Posts: 5318
        Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

        Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

        Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:22 pm

        Alias1024 wrote:
        Delta is reported to be close to raising another $1 billion in a sale-leaseback transaction. That would bring total cash raised since the beginning of the crisis to $7.6 billion.

        http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... or-u-s-aid

        It's actually $2.6 billion + 1 billion, so $3.6 billion which can be upsized to $5 billion. The other $3 billion is how much revolving credit they had prior to this started. They had also $2.8 billion of cash before this started. Let's see how much more loan all that unencumbered assets can bring them in the current environment.

        The fact that they had to go with sale-leaseback vs loan suggests to me that airlines are finding a really tough market to get additional loans.
         
        Alias1024
        Posts: 2677
        Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

        Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

        Tue Apr 14, 2020 5:01 pm

        tphuang wrote:
        Alias1024 wrote:
        Delta is reported to be close to raising another $1 billion in a sale-leaseback transaction. That would bring total cash raised since the beginning of the crisis to $7.6 billion.

        http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... or-u-s-aid

        It's actually $2.6 billion + 1 billion, so $3.6 billion which can be upsized to $5 billion. The other $3 billion is how much revolving credit they had prior to this started. They had also $2.8 billion of cash before this started. Let's see how much more loan all that unencumbered assets can bring them in the current environment.

        The fact that they had to go with sale-leaseback vs loan suggests to me that airlines are finding a really tough market to get additional loans.



        I'm counting cash added to their accounts that can be used to pay things like salaries and other expenses. I did not mention the $ 1.4 billion accordion feature as it is subject to lender approval. The previously established $3 billion revolver was undrawn. They've since drawn it. $3 billion + $2.6 billion + $ 1 billion = $6.6 billon cash.
        It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
         
        Aceskywalker
        Posts: 148
        Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:55 am

        Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

        Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:12 pm

        DL has been confirmed as the anonymous takeover of 10 A350s that LATAM dropped earlier this year.

        https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKCN21W1PU

        Thinking out loud - 30+ orders for A339 and now 20+ orders for A350. That's quite a lot of capacity for an airline that plans to be downsizing and in an industry that insiders have thrown 3-4+ years to recover to 2019 levels. Wouldn't it be smarter to purchase A321XLR to replace the aging 757 and 767 types instead of these large widebodies that will serve exclusively international routes?
         
        0newair0
        Posts: 421
        Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:21 am

        Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

        Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:16 pm

        Aceskywalker wrote:
        DL has been confirmed as the anonymous takeover of 10 A350s that LATAM dropped earlier this year.

        https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKCN21W1PU

        Thinking out loud - 30+ orders for A339 and now 20+ orders for A350. That's quite a lot of capacity for an airline that plans to be downsizing and in an industry that insiders have thrown 3-4+ years to recover to 2019 levels. Wouldn't it be smarter to purchase A321XLR to replace the aging 757 and 767 types instead of these large widebodies that will serve exclusively international routes?
        The announcement was part of the deal with LATAM. Essentially it is old information that was just confirmed. Delta still has time to decide what will ultimately be delivered.
        That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!

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