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Breathe
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Fri May 15, 2020 1:25 pm

TropicalSky wrote:
Gonna find out just how those 350's perform in the DAL network on LAX-SYD & ATL-JNB.....

Just to speculate, if these routes are dropped. Could they come back with an A350-900 ULR if needs be? As I understand it, the ULR can be converted back to a "standard" A350-900, but can a current in service A350-900 be converted to a ULR easily/cheaply?
 
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Polot
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Fri May 15, 2020 1:37 pm

Breathe wrote:
TropicalSky wrote:
Gonna find out just how those 350's perform in the DAL network on LAX-SYD & ATL-JNB.....

Just to speculate, if these routes are dropped. Could they come back with an A350-900 ULR if needs be? As I understand it, the ULR can be converted back to a "standard" A350-900, but can a current in service A350-900 be converted to a ULR easily/cheaply?

As others has said in this thread (or maybe the 777 one) and multiple times in the past, the A350ULR is just adding additional fuel capacity to the standard A350 but keeping the same MTOW. Therefore all the plane does is trade payload for fuel. In fact by design the front cargo compartment on the ULR is deactivated and can not be used for bags and revenue cargo. The A350 doesn’t have fuel capacity issues on JNB-ATL or LAX-SYD.

This is different than the 77L, which has a MTOW 50t higher than the 77E. The 77L can lift both more fuel and more weight than its lower range counterpart.
 
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STT757
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Fri May 15, 2020 5:42 pm

marcelh wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
At least the US has a robust domestic network that will be needed to pull its weight.


US economy is among the worst hit by the COVID-19 crisis, so there will be a lot of less people who have the money to fly.


And I think initially until more confidence is restored families who can afford vacations are going to be looking for something within driving distance. Families from New York and New Jersey whose parents are law enforcement, teachers etc.. who usually fly to Florida for their Winter/ Easter vacations will probably opt to drive. I know I did it a couple times a kid, it sucks at the time but it's something I remember back fondly.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sat May 16, 2020 7:28 am

AZORMP wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
I can understand Michigan's stance. But is Michigan in a position to subsidize any routes abandoned? They cannot be expected to. Michigan's argument is effective if the bailout is a sure-fire way to guarantee demand returns. There are no crystal balls. Delta has to do what it has to do for its survival. I doubt Northwest would have abandoned them, which may be the reason for Michigan resentment on the Delta move here IMO.



A lot of the stations listed in DL’s DOT filing are contract; specifically, they’re all DGS, with the exception of MDW.

I know that a lot of the DGS agents on the chopping block in MI are concerned about what’s going to happen with their pay, since there hasn’t been any real clear answers on whether or not they’ll get PPP.

At the same time, you’ve got to wonder if some of these drops in demand are self-inflicted. Look at AZO’s one daily departure. It leaves at 1810. Historically that last daily departure is used by folks traveling out west at the end of the day or for folks departing for Europe. LAN isn’t much better, with their flight leaving at 1615.

There are painfully few domestic connections out of DTW these days (at least in the mid-evening), meaning that flying from AZO or LAN to connect in DTW is basically worthless.


Interesting. Seems like most carriers are trying to reorganize out of bankruptcy in as close to bankruotcy mentality. Look at the fleet simplifications going on, voluntary leaves, and announcements of over-staffing. The bailouts are almost like an inverted Ch.11.
 
0newair0
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sat May 16, 2020 12:28 pm

TYWoolman wrote:

Interesting. Seems like most carriers are trying to reorganize out of bankruptcy in as close to bankruotcy mentality. Look at the fleet simplifications going on, voluntary leaves, and announcements of over-staffing. The bailouts are almost like an inverted Ch.11.


They are trying to reorganize out of bankruptcy. If they don't they likely end up in bankruptcy. All of them. And, even if they do radically restructure out of bankruptcy some of them may still end up in bankruptcy if passenger numbers don't make a significant come back soon.

Without the bailout there would have already been massive layoffs. 100,000+ from AA, DL, and UA combined.
That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
 
nwadeicer
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 21, 2020 12:01 am

Was sent an email from a friend in ATL. There will be two separation packages coming out 05-27. A retirement point pkg (age and yrs of service) and a voluntary separation pkg open to everyone. Unknown on what’s in either of the pkg’s at this time.
Date of separation for anyone taking the early out’s will be 08-01-20.
Furloughs are still a last resort, information regarding them will come out in the next couple weeks. They will involve no base bumping and will be done solely on seniority. Last in, first out.
No new planes from Boeing will be purchased at this time, up to 12-18 months. 777’s replaced by A350’s.
Personal leaves are still being granted, you want one, you got one.
Last thing said was beginning 2021 DAL will be an extremely smaller air line and plans will be consistent with saving money and our future.

Not official but we’ll see how any if this pans out.
I miss the Red Tail
 
winginit
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 21, 2020 12:38 am

nwadeicer wrote:
Was sent an email from a friend in ATL. There will be two separation packages coming out 05-27. A retirement point pkg (age and yrs of service) and a voluntary separation pkg open to everyone. Unknown on what’s in either of the pkg’s at this time.
Date of separation for anyone taking the early out’s will be 08-01-20.
Furloughs are still a last resort, information regarding them will come out in the next couple weeks. They will involve no base bumping and will be done solely on seniority. Last in, first out.
No new planes from Boeing will be purchased at this time, up to 12-18 months. 777’s replaced by A350’s.
Personal leaves are still being granted, you want one, you got one.
Last thing said was beginning 2021 DAL will be an extremely smaller air line and plans will be consistent with saving money and our future.

Not official but we’ll see how any if this pans out.


I may have this quote incorrect, but I'm told in today's townhall with Ed, the same one where CPT was announced, that he mentioned forecasting that even five years down the line it's possible that Delta will be 20-25% smaller than they are today.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 21, 2020 1:59 am

The numbers that were supposedly mentioned in that and also when Ed was making the media rounds earlier today:

25% of schedule in July 2020
At 75% of pre Covid by end of 2021 (25% less)
A lot of uncertainty around forward demand curves since it’s unknown when major tourist markets reopen (e.g., Vegas, Disney, Hawaii, cruises) and how quickly passengers return to booking air travel for such trips.
 
Nola
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 21, 2020 6:43 pm

Looks like the slowdown may lead to quicker construction at LAX, SLC and LGA. https://thepointsguy.com/news/delta-air ... tid=More-1
 
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STT757
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 21, 2020 6:48 pm

In terms of LGA, when they state:
“We’re working on innovative solutions for LaGuardia,” Hauenstein told staff without providing specifics.


I get the sense that the scope of the project might change, thus bringing the completion date forward. Not necessarily pulling an AA with a half completed terminal, but perhaps leaving some more existing infrastructure in place.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
TropicalSky
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 21, 2020 9:11 pm

U.S. Senators asking DAL & JBU to restore employees hrs
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... 2X2IO?il=0
 
atlflyer
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Fri May 22, 2020 3:20 pm

Good article on how Delta will expedite construction at LGA

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... omplexity/
 
freakyrat
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun May 24, 2020 11:10 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
freakyrat wrote:
AZORMP wrote:


After things return to normal or near that DL will be phasing out the OO CRJ2's 19 of OO's are being returned to DL. SBN-ATL flights when traffic returns will go to all CRJ9's. MSP who knows what aircraft but DTW will stay all CRJ2's.


Unlikely. SBN will be lucky to have 2 200's to ATL by the end of the year. MSP may not come back, or might be daily on a 200. Before all the craziness happened, there was a plan to move those 19 CR2's from OO to 9E, we will see if that still happens once things start to settle out.


SBN gets 1 ATL flight back in July (8:15 in the morning) and an additional DTW flight. DTW flights depart at 12:44 in the afternoon and 5:15 in the evening. All Flights are CRJ200's operated by Endeavor.
 
AZORMP
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun May 24, 2020 11:22 pm

freakyrat wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
freakyrat wrote:

After things return to normal or near that DL will be phasing out the OO CRJ2's 19 of OO's are being returned to DL. SBN-ATL flights when traffic returns will go to all CRJ9's. MSP who knows what aircraft but DTW will stay all CRJ2's.


Unlikely. SBN will be lucky to have 2 200's to ATL by the end of the year. MSP may not come back, or might be daily on a 200. Before all the craziness happened, there was a plan to move those 19 CR2's from OO to 9E, we will see if that still happens once things start to settle out.


SBN gets 1 ATL flight back in July (8:15 in the morning) and an additional DTW flight. DTW flights depart at 12:44 in the afternoon and 5:15 in the evening. All Flights are CRJ200's operated by Endeavor.


AZO gets a second flight back starting week of 7/5 departing AZO at 1230. Both flights operated by 9E, both flights CRJ2s.
Kalamazoo’s Radio Man

The RJ2 sucks.
 
AZORMP
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun May 24, 2020 11:30 pm

Nola wrote:
Looks like the slowdown may lead to quicker construction at LAX, SLC and LGA. https://thepointsguy.com/news/delta-air ... tid=More-1



It doesn’t appear that specifics are mentioned for SLC, but I read somewhere recently (I believe on this board) that SLC authorities intend to demolish Concourses C-G once A and B are operational. This may have been mentioned already so please pardon me if I missed it somewhere.

I’ve never been to SLC so I’m not exactly sure how everything is laid out beyond the Google satellite view, and what airlines are where, but on the surface it seems like demolishing five concourses and replacing them with only two for all of the airlines seems like a real quick way to run into capacity problems. Can anyone elaborate on how things are going to be executed here?
Kalamazoo’s Radio Man

The RJ2 sucks.
 
ytib
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon May 25, 2020 12:06 am

AZORMP wrote:
Nola wrote:
Looks like the slowdown may lead to quicker construction at LAX, SLC and LGA. https://thepointsguy.com/news/delta-air ... tid=More-1



It doesn’t appear that specifics are mentioned for SLC, but I read somewhere recently (I believe on this board) that SLC authorities intend to demolish Concourses C-G once A and B are operational. This may have been mentioned already so please pardon me if I missed it somewhere.

I’ve never been to SLC so I’m not exactly sure how everything is laid out beyond the Google satellite view, and what airlines are where, but on the surface it seems like demolishing five concourses and replacing them with only two for all of the airlines seems like a real quick way to run into capacity problems. Can anyone elaborate on how things are going to be executed here?


When the new terminal in September it will just be with Concourse A. however in October 2020 Concourse B will be added which will give them 45 gates in the new build first phase. Currently there are 71 gates. However they will be adding more gates as part of the next phase (33 gates) which they would then do during the slower traffic numbers expected.

https://www.slcairport.com/thenewslc/th ... act-sheet/
318, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 388, 707, 717, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73Q, 735, 73G, 738, 7M8, 739, 752, 753, 742, 74L, 744, 762, 763, 772, 77L, 77W, 789, 142, CN1, CR2, CR7, DC8, DH2, DH8, D8Q, D10, D95, EM2, ER3, ER4, E70, 100, J31, M11, M83, M88, M90, SF3
 
TYWoolman
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon May 25, 2020 11:07 am

Wonder why Delta went with no bridge-over-plane-under concept like the other side of the airport design. Perhaps because separate design team proprietary conceptualization rights or just doesn't lend to the terminal footprint on Delta's side (?).
 
atlflyer
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon May 25, 2020 12:58 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
Wonder why Delta went with no bridge-over-plane-under concept like the other side of the airport design. Perhaps because separate design team proprietary conceptualization rights or just doesn't lend to the terminal footprint on Delta's side (?).


Delta was able to fit in a few extra gates with their design versus the design of Terminal B.

Terminal B is a very nice passenger experience.
 
Boston757
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon May 25, 2020 1:40 pm

In regards to Delta's near future. All the airlines are doing their best to survive. I find it interesting that DAL employees-non pilots are under the impression that they are sitting well and will be just a little smaller. No financial hardship to come, and believe that they will be just fine and be back to normal but smaller soon. So somewhere the mantra is being promoted in Atlanta. I guess close your eyes and all will be a-ok. Weird
 
Triple7Lr
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon May 25, 2020 2:28 pm

Boston757 wrote:
In regards to Delta's near future. All the airlines are doing their best to survive. I find it interesting that DAL employees-non pilots are under the impression that they are sitting well and will be just a little smaller. No financial hardship to come, and believe that they will be just fine and be back to normal but smaller soon. So somewhere the mantra is being promoted in Atlanta. I guess close your eyes and all will be a-ok. Weird



I think it has to do with their employees having faith in upper management. It’s almost a cult like culture but who can blame them just look a things like profit sharing and compare Delta vs. the rest of the industry. Some are overly optimistic while others are already securing other jobs.
 
Prost
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon May 25, 2020 2:29 pm

Boston757, we do not feel that way at Delta. Not in the least, we’re all very aware of what is coming.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon May 25, 2020 3:13 pm

If you visit LGA, You can see that Delta is pretty much committed to the project… Because they have no choice. Simply too far along on the “postage stamp” of land to stop.

I would imagine the Jfk project is done and they will consolidate at T4 as it is. I understand TOGA wants to continue with the build out on the terminal 2
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Boston757
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon May 25, 2020 4:38 pm

Prost wrote:
Boston757, we do not feel that way at Delta. Not in the least, we’re all very aware of what is coming.


That's what I thought, it must be a few in denial talking this up. Best to at DAL.
 
cokepopper
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon May 25, 2020 7:22 pm

Boston757 wrote:
In regards to Delta's near future. All the airlines are doing their best to survive. I find it interesting that DAL employees-non pilots are under the impression that they are sitting well and will be just a little smaller. No financial hardship to come, and believe that they will be just fine and be back to normal but smaller soon. So somewhere the mantra is being promoted in Atlanta. I guess close your eyes and all will be a-ok. Weird

Where are you getting this? Such a broad statement to make.
Everyone I know is braced for what’s to come, everyone. Wednesday is the release of the 2 packages for inflight. Severance and retirement offerings. The company has been very transparent so far.
 
n9801f
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon May 25, 2020 8:49 pm

cokepopper wrote:
Boston757 wrote:
In regards to Delta's near future. All the airlines are doing their best to survive. I find it interesting that DAL employees-non pilots are under the impression that they are sitting well and will be just a little smaller. No financial hardship to come, and believe that they will be just fine and be back to normal but smaller soon. So somewhere the mantra is being promoted in Atlanta. I guess close your eyes and all will be a-ok. Weird

Where are you getting this? Such a broad statement to make.
Everyone I know is braced for what’s to come, everyone. Wednesday is the release of the 2 packages for inflight. Severance and retirement offerings. The company has been very transparent so far.


Good luck to you and all in these hard times.

I’ve detected this theme, too. Here are some places I picked it up:

In the 7,000 pilots thread, there are comments questioning the need for cuts. One poster even suggested there should be none.

And the 777 retirement thread is obsessed with the short-term plan for JNB and SYD. There’s little awareness that these are peripheral routes that could take a long time to recover.

This thread has at times focused on expensive facilities projects (sounds like long term growth) instead of saving money for short term survival.

Also Delta was slowest to announce reductions.

So sometimes this all sounds like a little denial and lack of urgency.

It’s a hard time. Good luck. Eyes open.
 
FlyGuyNash
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon May 25, 2020 9:12 pm

n9801f wrote:
cokepopper wrote:
Boston757 wrote:
In regards to Delta's near future. All the airlines are doing their best to survive. I find it interesting that DAL employees-non pilots are under the impression that they are sitting well and will be just a little smaller. No financial hardship to come, and believe that they will be just fine and be back to normal but smaller soon. So somewhere the mantra is being promoted in Atlanta. I guess close your eyes and all will be a-ok. Weird

Where are you getting this? Such a broad statement to make.
Everyone I know is braced for what’s to come, everyone. Wednesday is the release of the 2 packages for inflight. Severance and retirement offerings. The company has been very transparent so far.


Good luck to you and all in these hard times.

I’ve detected this theme, too. Here are some places I picked it up:

In the 7,000 pilots thread, there are comments questioning the need for cuts. One poster even suggested there should be none.

And the 777 retirement thread is obsessed with the short-term plan for JNB and SYD. There’s little awareness that these are peripheral routes that could take a long time to recover.

This thread has at times focused on expensive facilities projects (sounds like long term growth) instead of saving money for short term survival.

Also Delta was slowest to announce reductions.

So sometimes this all sounds like a little denial and lack of urgency.

It’s a hard time. Good luck. Eyes open.



A couple of your assumptions here seem to be off.

I don't think many people would disagree that pilot furloughs are on the way, I think many will argue that if you can't do simple math Delta couldn't realistically furlough over 3,000 and if they want to be in a position for a faster than expected recovery there is no way they could furlough more than 1,000. There is a huge retirement wave that has to be considered and the fact you can only train so many pilots a year. When you do the math that Delta is planning to have around 11,500-12,000 active pilots meaning a seniority list of about 13,000 pilots by summer 2022 retirements alone take them to that number so they have to make sure they don't over furlough so they can get back up if demand returns faster than expected between now and then.

I agree about the 777 thread. Seems people think it will start up tomorrow but the reality is no one knows when that route will kick off again.

The construction projects as mentioned by the CFO has said all has been paid for this year. So no money is being spent right now on these and he also mentions that it would save Delta a significant amount of money to speed up the construction especially at LGA.

How was Delta the slowest to announce reduction? On March 13th we got a memo saying we will park 300 airplanes and reduce capacity 40% and 5 days later another memo saying we will now park 600 airplanes with a 70% reduction in capacity. Delta seemed to be on the top of the list for quickly reducing flights.

I just fail to see how many of these points are a accurate way to say that Delta employees don't see the future. Yes there are some who are living in Atlanta koolaid land thinking we will be back to normal by next year but most understand we will probably be a 20% smaller airline for the next few years.
 
Dalmd88
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Tue May 26, 2020 12:19 am

n9801f wrote:
cokepopper wrote:
Boston757 wrote:
In regards to Delta's near future. All the airlines are doing their best to survive. I find it interesting that DAL employees-non pilots are under the impression that they are sitting well and will be just a little smaller. No financial hardship to come, and believe that they will be just fine and be back to normal but smaller soon. So somewhere the mantra is being promoted in Atlanta. I guess close your eyes and all will be a-ok. Weird

Where are you getting this? Such a broad statement to make.
Everyone I know is braced for what’s to come, everyone. Wednesday is the release of the 2 packages for inflight. Severance and retirement offerings. The company has been very transparent so far.


Good luck to you and all in these hard times.

I’ve detected this theme, too. Here are some places I picked it up:

In the 7,000 pilots thread, there are comments questioning the need for cuts. One poster even suggested there should be none.

And the 777 retirement thread is obsessed with the short-term plan for JNB and SYD. There’s little awareness that these are peripheral routes that could take a long time to recover.

This thread has at times focused on expensive facilities projects (sounds like long term growth) instead of saving money for short term survival.

Also Delta was slowest to announce reductions.

So sometimes this all sounds like a little denial and lack of urgency.

It’s a hard time. Good luck. Eyes open.


Most people do have their eyes open. We know what is coming this fall. Everyone on here is not is the same situation. Most of the more senior personal feel we are relatively safe from a furlough. I's not going to be a fun ride. We know that because we all went through the last round.

We are also trying to stay positive. The real hope is this retirement package is good enough to entice a lot of people to take it. I know a lot of people that want to retire. Medical is the hold up for many. Usually for a family member. They are under the old pension plan and deserve to collect on it while they are still in good health. If the plan is good it will save a lot of furlough heartache.

As for the facilities discussion. It's already paid for. Moving the timetable up when their are no customers saves us money in the long run.
 
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klm617
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 28, 2020 11:15 am

I think what we will see coming out if this is Delta pretty much the same size at DTW, SEA, SLC and NYC while MSP and ATL getting reduced 15 to 30%. ATL, MSP and BOS were all connection heavy markets or low yielding transfer points while DTW, SEA, SLC and NYC being more O/D based. What I don't see coming back are MSP-ICN, SEA-KIX, and MSP-MEX. Will be interesting to see how this all plays out in the end. We are already seeing indications that SEA is holding it's own with minimal reductions.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
AZORMP
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 28, 2020 3:46 pm

klm617 wrote:
I think what we will see coming out if this is Delta pretty much the same size at DTW, SEA, SLC and NYC while MSP and ATL getting reduced 15 to 30%. ATL, MSP and BOS were all connection heavy markets or low yielding transfer points while DTW, SEA, SLC and NYC being more O/D based. What I don't see coming back are MSP-ICN, SEA-KIX, and MSP-MEX. Will be interesting to see how this all plays out in the end. We are already seeing indications that SEA is holding it's own with minimal reductions.



I’m interested in what the fleet plan is going to look like over the next couple years as well, not just for mainline, but regional too. Delta’s been trying to dump the CRJ-200 for years and this might finally be the chance to do it. They’re old, uncomfortable, and had the reputation of being maintenance queens pre-COVID (a noticeable drop in the maintenance events since demand dropped and flight cycles have been reduced).

My personal opinion (I’m not well-versed in the economics so bear with me) is to dump the 200s, upgauge the “contract” 200 routes to 70 or 76 seat aircraft and upgauge the 70/76 seat routes to mainline DL. You eliminate an out of date fleet type while providing a more modern customer experience and reducing the average age of your fleet, which seems to be the goal for the “smaller” Delta, from what I understand.

What would be holding DL back from doing that?
Kalamazoo’s Radio Man

The RJ2 sucks.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 28, 2020 4:34 pm

Another Bastian letter. Early out offer coming today.



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NWAESC
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 28, 2020 4:39 pm

Both packages are out. All DL employees should have a full inbox and at least 1 voicemail by now...
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
ShinyAndChrome
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 28, 2020 4:48 pm

AZORMP wrote:
klm617 wrote:
I think what we will see coming out if this is Delta pretty much the same size at DTW, SEA, SLC and NYC while MSP and ATL getting reduced 15 to 30%. ATL, MSP and BOS were all connection heavy markets or low yielding transfer points while DTW, SEA, SLC and NYC being more O/D based. What I don't see coming back are MSP-ICN, SEA-KIX, and MSP-MEX. Will be interesting to see how this all plays out in the end. We are already seeing indications that SEA is holding it's own with minimal reductions.



I’m interested in what the fleet plan is going to look like over the next couple years as well, not just for mainline, but regional too. Delta’s been trying to dump the CRJ-200 for years and this might finally be the chance to do it. They’re old, uncomfortable, and had the reputation of being maintenance queens pre-COVID (a noticeable drop in the maintenance events since demand dropped and flight cycles have been reduced).

My personal opinion (I’m not well-versed in the economics so bear with me) is to dump the 200s, upgauge the “contract” 200 routes to 70 or 76 seat aircraft and upgauge the 70/76 seat routes to mainline DL. You eliminate an out of date fleet type while providing a more modern customer experience and reducing the average age of your fleet, which seems to be the goal for the “smaller” Delta, from what I understand.

What would be holding DL back from doing that?


Looking at where they regularly fly 200s now, it looks like a lot of small, isolated airports in places like Minnesota and Michigan that probably couldn't support daily 70+ seat aircraft. You might be able to make it work with tag flights, but the prospect of simultaneously pulling out of so many small airports at once would probably be a political liability.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8136
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 28, 2020 5:17 pm

There will probably remain to be about ~50 CRJ-200s between OO and 9E in the medium-term.
 
nwadeicer
Posts: 310
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:17 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 28, 2020 5:18 pm

So, the enhanced retiree package (age+ yrs service =70) is basically about 6 months of severance pay, 8 positive space tickets, 6 special retiree flight listings, above regular retirees but below active employees. 1 year normal flight privileges. 2 years medical/dental/vision. I know i'm missing a couple other things.
Basically they don't want many people leaving, except those on the brink and needing a little push. Not for me thank you.
I miss the Red Tail
 
LawAndOrder
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:56 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 28, 2020 5:26 pm

nwadeicer wrote:
So, the enhanced retiree package (age+ yrs service =70) is basically about 6 months of severance pay, 8 positive space tickets, 6 special retiree flight listings, above regular retirees but below active employees. 1 year normal flight privileges. 2 years medical/dental/vision. I know i'm missing a couple other things.
Basically they don't want many people leaving, except those on the brink and needing a little push. Not for me thank you.


You get 4 trips to anywhere in the world for two. 6 priority passes are per year I thought. 1 year active before the 6 retiree per year. Retiree benefits for life. It also includes a rma to help people pay for medical after the two years of insurance. It’s a pretty decent early out package. What were you expecting?

They volunteer severance package I hear will be attractive to those that were just working there for the flight benefits. There are some 401 early vested perks from what I understand. I know a bunch of people considering.
 
Dalmd88
Posts: 3148
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 3:19 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 28, 2020 5:45 pm

nwadeicer wrote:
So, the enhanced retiree package (age+ yrs service =70) is basically about 6 months of severance pay, 8 positive space tickets, 6 special retiree flight listings, above regular retirees but below active employees. 1 year normal flight privileges. 2 years medical/dental/vision. I know i'm missing a couple other things.
Basically they don't want many people leaving, except those on the brink and needing a little push. Not for me thank you.

I think it is a very good program. The medical is huge. 24 months and then the RMA gives from $100,000-$150,000 to pay for retiree medical costs. That right there is one of the reasons a lot of people that are retirement age are still with the company. The employee is eligible for Medicare but other family members need medical for a few more years. This plan hits that mark. If I was over 60 I would be gone with this plan. That RMA will likely cover supplemental coverage costs for most retirees lives. Plus most of the over 60 crowd will still get their full or close to full pensions as they were likely fully vested when the plan was frozen.

It is the best plan they have every offered. I think in the Tech Ops division there will be a lot of takers. We are very top seniority heavy with a lot of pre 1985 employees. This is the target for this plan.
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2903
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 28, 2020 6:22 pm

klm617 wrote:
I think what we will see coming out if this is Delta pretty much the same size at DTW, SEA, SLC and NYC while MSP and ATL getting reduced 15 to 30%. ATL, MSP and BOS were all connection heavy markets or low yielding transfer points while DTW, SEA, SLC and NYC being more O/D based. What I don't see coming back are MSP-ICN, SEA-KIX, and MSP-MEX. Will be interesting to see how this all plays out in the end. We are already seeing indications that SEA is holding it's own with minimal reductions.


Not to derail the conversation but where do you get the things you post? MSP's O&D percentage is consistently higher than both DTW's and SLC's (the last stat I saw showed that just 38% percent of MSP traffic is connecting - obviously DL's percentage was higher, but still). And regardless of ATL being a much larger connection-reliant hub, reductions in air travel across the board will be absorbed proportionally across the network. Just because certain markets are higher or lower in O&D doesn't mean that connections can't be concentrated at certain markets. Downsizing will happen with all hubs and all markets, period. Dips in demand this massive touch every corner of the market.

Jeremy
 
AZORMP
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:08 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 28, 2020 6:50 pm

ShinyAndChrome wrote:
AZORMP wrote:
klm617 wrote:
I think what we will see coming out if this is Delta pretty much the same size at DTW, SEA, SLC and NYC while MSP and ATL getting reduced 15 to 30%. ATL, MSP and BOS were all connection heavy markets or low yielding transfer points while DTW, SEA, SLC and NYC being more O/D based. What I don't see coming back are MSP-ICN, SEA-KIX, and MSP-MEX. Will be interesting to see how this all plays out in the end. We are already seeing indications that SEA is holding it's own with minimal reductions.



I’m interested in what the fleet plan is going to look like over the next couple years as well, not just for mainline, but regional too. Delta’s been trying to dump the CRJ-200 for years and this might finally be the chance to do it. They’re old, uncomfortable, and had the reputation of being maintenance queens pre-COVID (a noticeable drop in the maintenance events since demand dropped and flight cycles have been reduced).

My personal opinion (I’m not well-versed in the economics so bear with me) is to dump the 200s, upgauge the “contract” 200 routes to 70 or 76 seat aircraft and upgauge the 70/76 seat routes to mainline DL. You eliminate an out of date fleet type while providing a more modern customer experience and reducing the average age of your fleet, which seems to be the goal for the “smaller” Delta, from what I understand.

What would be holding DL back from doing that?


Looking at where they regularly fly 200s now, it looks like a lot of small, isolated airports in places like Minnesota and Michigan that probably couldn't support daily 70+ seat aircraft. You might be able to make it work with tag flights, but the prospect of simultaneously pulling out of so many small airports at once would probably be a political liability.



The airports you’re talking about (PLN, MQT, ANP, CIU, etc.) are prorate/EAS stations. SkyWest (or whomever the carrier is) keeps all the revenue from those flights, whereas the major carrier is just the “booking agent”, so to speak.

I have no doubt that most of those stations will remain on the 200 but there are many other, larger, stations that are operated via contract with the regional carrier (FNT, MBS, AZO, LAN, for example) that regularly had 70/76 seat departures pre-COVID. This is how the schedules stand for September 7th:

AZO: 2x 700 departures (DTW)

FNT: 2x 900 departures (ATL)

MBS: 2x 900 departures (DTW)

LAN: 1x 900 departure (DTW)

I can’t speak for airports in MN because I’m not familiar with what is contract and what is EAS. However, I believe the non-EAS stations will eventually see an upgauge of equipment at some point, in conjunction with Delta’s goal of having a smaller and more modern fleet.
Kalamazoo’s Radio Man

The RJ2 sucks.
 
DTWorld
Posts: 187
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:34 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 28, 2020 7:32 pm

Dalmd88 wrote:
nwadeicer wrote:
So, the enhanced retiree package (age+ yrs service =70) is basically about 6 months of severance pay, 8 positive space tickets, 6 special retiree flight listings, above regular retirees but below active employees. 1 year normal flight privileges. 2 years medical/dental/vision. I know I'm missing a couple of other things.
Basically they don't want many people leaving, except those on the brink and needing a little push. Not for me thank you.

I think it is a very good program. The medical is huge. 24 months and then the RMA gives from $100,000-$150,000 to pay for retiree medical costs. That right there is one of the reasons a lot of people that are retirement age are still with the company. The employee is eligible for Medicare but other family members need medical for a few more years. This plan hits that mark. If I was over 60 I would be gone with this plan. That RMA will likely cover supplemental coverage costs for most retirees' lives. Plus most of the over 60 crowd will still get their full or close to full pensions as they were likely fully vested when the plan was frozen.

It is the best plan they have ever offered. I think in the Tech Ops division there will be a lot of takers. We are very top seniority heavy with a lot of pre-1985 employees. This is the target for this plan.


I think it also includes 18 months' pay for COBRA from what I vaguely recall reading in the morning hours without my coffee.

Overall, I agree that many of the agents with 1985 seniority or earlier would be insane to scoff at this and not consider taking it. We're in the same boat in ACS. Many of them have more seniority than I've been alive!
 
nwadeicer
Posts: 310
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:17 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 28, 2020 7:47 pm

It’s a great offer, if you need the medical. I don’t need the medical. It would have been nice to have an option of opting out of any medical and having that added to the severance pay out. The RMA is valued at 150,000 I believe. Seeing I don’t need that, the two years of medical/dental/etc or COBRA roll that into my final severance pay.
I miss the Red Tail
 
User avatar
NWAESC
Posts: 1602
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 28, 2020 7:53 pm

DTWorld wrote:
Many of them have more seniority than I've been alive!



It's definitely jarring the first time someone shows up on your gate that was born after you were hired.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
kavok
Posts: 842
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 28, 2020 9:16 pm

Apparently the FAs were told that Delta plans to exit a number of their European stations permanently. The specific locations were not revealed, and no I don’t have a link to confirm what the FAs were told. But given that it was revealed en masse, somebody will likely be able to source that quote soon. Anyway, it looks like DL will be taking a step back on the number of TATL destinations served, and not just for this summer.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8136
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 28, 2020 9:25 pm

kavok wrote:
Apparently the FAs were told that Delta plans to exit a number of their European stations permanently. The specific locations were not revealed, and no I don’t have a link to confirm what the FAs were told. But given that it was revealed en masse, somebody will likely be able to source that quote soon. Anyway, it looks like DL will be taking a step back on the number of TATL destinations served, and not just for this summer.

Well nothing is ever permanent in this industry.

OTOH, I mean, you could argue that maybe DL is less interested in playing the seasonal game, particularly with 777s going away and a chunk of the 763s likely. Carrying aircraft just for the sake of catering to summer seasonal peak demand for 6 months of the year with nowhere to put them the other 6 months has always been a challenge. They used to the time in recent years to do a lot of mods and the like, but they won't always have that luxury.
 
Dalmd88
Posts: 3148
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 3:19 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 28, 2020 9:41 pm

nwadeicer wrote:
It’s a great offer, if you need the medical. I don’t need the medical. It would have been nice to have an option of opting out of any medical and having that added to the severance pay out. The RMA is valued at 150,000 I believe. Seeing I don’t need that, the two years of medical/dental/etc or COBRA roll that into my final severance pay.

I get that not everyone needs the medical. If your spouse has better medical coverage like a US Gov't program It is meaningless. For most the Delta coverage is their best option. I do find it hard to believe the $150,000 RMA is of no use? That can be used for any copays for any plan and once you get to Medicare it can cover the Supplemental part, unless you are lucky enough to have that covered under another plan.

I really do think there will be a lot of the over 60 age group that will take this.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5304
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 28, 2020 9:42 pm

kavok wrote:
Apparently the FAs were told that Delta plans to exit a number of their European stations permanently. The specific locations were not revealed, and no I don’t have a link to confirm what the FAs were told. But given that it was revealed en masse, somebody will likely be able to source that quote soon. Anyway, it looks like DL will be taking a step back on the number of TATL destinations served, and not just for this summer.


I would imagine LGW is an obvious one to exit since VS is leaving there. Maybe LIS, NCE, SNN and KEF also.
 
dca1
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:39 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 28, 2020 9:47 pm

kavok wrote:
Apparently the FAs were told that Delta plans to exit a number of their European stations permanently. The specific locations were not revealed, and no I don’t have a link to confirm what the FAs were told. But given that it was revealed en masse, somebody will likely be able to source that quote soon. Anyway, it looks like DL will be taking a step back on the number of TATL destinations served, and not just for this summer.


https://thepointsguy.com/news/delta-air ... ronavirus/
 
Triple7Lr
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:17 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 28, 2020 9:53 pm

LawAndOrder wrote:
nwadeicer wrote:
So, the enhanced retiree package (age+ yrs service =70) is basically about 6 months of severance pay, 8 positive space tickets, 6 special retiree flight listings, above regular retirees but below active employees. 1 year normal flight privileges. 2 years medical/dental/vision. I know i'm missing a couple other things.
Basically they don't want many people leaving, except those on the brink and needing a little push. Not for me thank you.


You get 4 trips to anywhere in the world for two. 6 priority passes are per year I thought. 1 year active before the 6 retiree per year. Retiree benefits for life. It also includes a rma to help people pay for medical after the two years of insurance. It’s a pretty decent early out package. What were you expecting?

They volunteer severance package I hear will be attractive to those that were just working there for the flight benefits. There are some 401 early vested perks from what I understand. I know a bunch of people considering.



Remember, there will be people out there that won’t be satisfied no matter the offer. It’s a pretty good package considering the environment. I was guessing they would only offer flight benefits and medical.
 
flyboy80
Posts: 2070
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 28, 2020 9:54 pm

Delta is right in expecting the international part of the recovery to take longer, come "back" slower. I think the new normal will be much different than pre-covid 19. I'm incredibly curious how this new market de-balances the hubs and how aggressive Delta will be at managing this. Will we see a "DFW" and a large hub be completely downgraded, or will everything simply be cut, with more international cut than domestic? Is there room in 2021 and 2022 for two US-Asia gateways? Can MSP and ATL handle 80% of what DTW does? Lots of questions. Theres just no way to tell as of now. It really seems Delta may have missed the boat on the 321xlr, and out of all the carriers, would have been most beneficial for their network of marginal US-Europe routes i.e. IND-CDG, RDU-CDG, NYC- Seasonal Europe, & the BOS hub etc. Of course that is all based on the pre-covid network. And if revenue from the premium travel takes even longer to come back, all the legacy carriers will have to change their business model to be less focused on that specific customer. I think everyone can agree that Delta's hard and soft product have been just a (single) step above United and American, in economy at least. It will be interesting how the airline that proudly claims a revenue premium chooses to position itself in a market with less premium demand operating from hubs that will have lower demand to non-stop premium markets versus UA and AA networks.
 
panamair
Posts: 4341
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 28, 2020 10:03 pm

tphuang wrote:

I would imagine LGW is an obvious one to exit since VS is leaving there. Maybe LIS, NCE, SNN and KEF also.


Interestingly enough, LIS is one of the few European destinations they have not yanked from JFK for July (in addition to AMS, CDG and ATH). I think many of the seasonals will be gone (those were the first to be cut when they first started pruning this summer's schedule).

Current year-round destinations are LHR, DUB, EDI, AMS, BRU, CDG, FRA, MUC, STR, DUS, ZRH, MXP, FCO, MAD, BCN and LIS; seasonals are KEF, SNN, GLA, MAN, TXL, VCE, NCE, PRG and ATH (though ATH will probably come back still as seasonal).
 
CRJ200flyer
Posts: 153
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:33 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu May 28, 2020 10:54 pm

AZORMP wrote:
ShinyAndChrome wrote:
AZORMP wrote:


I’m interested in what the fleet plan is going to look like over the next couple years as well, not just for mainline, but regional too. Delta’s been trying to dump the CRJ-200 for years and this might finally be the chance to do it. They’re old, uncomfortable, and had the reputation of being maintenance queens pre-COVID (a noticeable drop in the maintenance events since demand dropped and flight cycles have been reduced).

My personal opinion (I’m not well-versed in the economics so bear with me) is to dump the 200s, upgauge the “contract” 200 routes to 70 or 76 seat aircraft and upgauge the 70/76 seat routes to mainline DL. You eliminate an out of date fleet type while providing a more modern customer experience and reducing the average age of your fleet, which seems to be the goal for the “smaller” Delta, from what I understand.

What would be holding DL back from doing that?


Looking at where they regularly fly 200s now, it looks like a lot of small, isolated airports in places like Minnesota and Michigan that probably couldn't support daily 70+ seat aircraft. You might be able to make it work with tag flights, but the prospect of simultaneously pulling out of so many small airports at once would probably be a political liability.



The airports you’re talking about (PLN, MQT, ANP, CIU, etc.) are prorate/EAS stations. SkyWest (or whomever the carrier is) keeps all the revenue from those flights, whereas the major carrier is just the “booking agent”, so to speak.

I have no doubt that most of those stations will remain on the 200 but there are many other, larger, stations that are operated via contract with the regional carrier (FNT, MBS, AZO, LAN, for example) that regularly had 70/76 seat departures pre-COVID. This is how the schedules stand for September 7th:

AZO: 2x 700 departures (DTW)

FNT: 2x 900 departures (ATL)

MBS: 2x 900 departures (DTW)

LAN: 1x 900 departure (DTW)

I can’t speak for airports in MN because I’m not familiar with what is contract and what is EAS. However, I believe the non-EAS stations will eventually see an upgauge of equipment at some point, in conjunction with Delta’s goal of having a smaller and more modern fleet.


If you saw any route previously operated on an Endeavor 200, my understanding is we at Endeavor don’t fly any EAS routes, only SkyWest does. I don’t know how that will change in the future. I see at least 6 airports on my June schedule previously flown by SKW out of DTW that I’ll be flying to this month. All my routes but AZO, MBS, and TVC are outside of the state of Michigan.

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