Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
DL717
Posts: 2153
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:12 pm

joeblow10 wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
DLASFlyer wrote:
An airport official says SLC is Delta's fastest-recovering hub.
https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/20 ... t-hit-low/

Not surprised, on a percentage basis it’s recovered more than others. ATL obviously still has more flights/seats/ passengers but a smaller % of normal.
SLC has less international flight exposure and also connected to summer East-west flows and mountain west destinations and national parks that leisure demand peaks in summer.


Wonder if this will factor into any decision making regarding the old terminal - they seem pretty keen on knocking it all down come fall, still seems like a reasonable move at this point in time, but if we recover to 70% of the traffic, seems like it could be fairly chaotic


It’ll be gone. Then it will be churn and burn to finish the rest of the project as things slowly ramp up Again over the next couple of years. It won’t recover that quickly. We haven’t even gotten to the inevitable recession yet.

Will save a couple hundred million and two years time in the process:

https://kslnewsradio.com/1925757/covid- ... expansion/
Welcome to Nothingburgers. May I take your order?
 
umichman
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:42 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sat Jun 20, 2020 6:29 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Delta has loaded what appears to be a preliminary schedule for August that can viewed through the online routemap. The website and what is loaded for sale for August does not yet reflect the changes but they should be loaded in this Saturday's schedule update, and subsequently in enilria's weekly OAG report this Sunday.
.


Interesting.....

Looks like the return of some p2p:

BOS-LAS/RDU/BNA
CVG-RSW/FLL/MCO/TPA/LAS
RDU-MCO/TPA

MCO looks to be way ahead of every other non-hub station at 37 departures, or about 2/3rds of last years schedule


CVG-LAX also returns in August.
 
evank516
Posts: 2138
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:06 pm

NLINK wrote:
From DL you can probably see them looking at options to get out of leases on almost any aircraft in it's fleet, new or old first to save costs.
As for those older aircraft or semi sub fleets you have the following that all or none could be considered.
Older
320-200
757-200
767-300ER

Small Sub fleets
10 737-700
16 757-300

As everyone else says the 717 are the ones that's anyones guess. For Boeing to take them back early they will need something in return which would be some type of aircraft order which we could all guess but it would be the 737-MAX or 787 as those are the only two real options.


The 73G isn't going anywhere for a while. They're new and they're needed for routes that require their performance for Hot and High and short runways (EYW, TGU, ATL-BUR whenever that resumes).
 
HNLSLCPDX
Posts: 215
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:40 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:48 pm

evank516 wrote:
NLINK wrote:
From DL you can probably see them looking at options to get out of leases on almost any aircraft in it's fleet, new or old first to save costs.
As for those older aircraft or semi sub fleets you have the following that all or none could be considered.
Older
320-200
757-200
767-300ER

Small Sub fleets
10 737-700
16 757-300

As everyone else says the 717 are the ones that's anyones guess. For Boeing to take them back early they will need something in return which would be some type of aircraft order which we could all guess but it would be the 737-MAX or 787 as those are the only two real options.


The 73G isn't going anywhere for a while. They're new and they're needed for routes that require their performance for Hot and High and short runways (EYW, TGU, ATL-BUR whenever that resumes).

CRW as well as some Caribbean airports see the 73G as well.
 
freakyrat
Posts: 2028
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:27 am

Delta was using the 717 for service n college towns on football weekends so I suppose once the virus passes and we have a vaccine and get back to where College Football is back to normal those towns will probably see the A220.
 
User avatar
NWAROOSTER
Posts: 1336
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:29 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:22 am

NLINK wrote:
From DL you can probably see them looking at options to get out of leases on almost any aircraft in it's fleet, new or old first to save costs.
As for those older aircraft or semi sub fleets you have the following that all or none could be considered.
Older
320-200
757-200
767-300ER

NWAROOSTER MY comment.......These aircraft will stick around until they time out and need a heavy check and sufficient replacements are in place.

Small Sub fleets
10 737-700
16 757-300

NWAROOSTER MY comment......The 737-700 will stay in operation unless the A220 can handle the hot and heavy South American routes. The 757-351s are money makers will continue flying until the cost of operation and a heavy check make keeping them expensive and something else is available to replace them inDelta's fleet.

As everyone else says the 717 are the ones that's anyones guess. For Boeing to take them back early they will need something in return which would be some type of aircraft order which we could all guess but it would be the 737-MAX or 787 as those are the only two real options.


Delta will most likely keep the 717s until the leases expire and return them to Boeing and Southwest where they will become some else problem. Delta only owns a small handful. :old:
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
Dalmd88
Posts: 3139
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 3:19 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:26 pm

NLINK wrote:
From DL you can probably see them looking at options to get out of leases on almost any aircraft in it's fleet, new or old first to save costs.
As for those older aircraft or semi sub fleets you have the following that all or none could be considered.
Older
320-200
757-200
767-300ER

Small Sub fleets
10 737-700
16 757-300

As everyone else says the 717 are the ones that's anyones guess. For Boeing to take them back early they will need something in return which would be some type of aircraft order which we could all guess but it would be the 737-MAX or 787 as those are the only two real options.

I really don't think the two small subfleets are an issue at DL. Both use the same crews as the larger fleets. Parts wise there is virtually no difference. The subfleets provide flexibility. The 737-700 gives you a little hot rod that can get into hot and high with a small number of seats. The 757-300 gives you a narrowbody cattle hauler for low yield routes.

The 717 is the odd one out. Parts wise it now shares very little with any other DL fleet or for any fleet in the world. Engines will not be an issue at least. They are currently being worked inhouse and share quite a bit component wise with the Biz jet cousin. I think Delta would like to dump the inhouse engine shop for the BR. it takes up floor space and brings in very little outside work.

The airframe support for the 717 is going to get expensive. It shares a lot with the MD80 family and now with that worldwide fleet down to nothing suppliers will drop the work. There are only so many structural parts sitting in warehouses. Once they are gone it is special order to make a small run. Yes, you can take a door off of the boneyard airframe, but if you drive a tug into the side and need frames, they have to be new. Same goes for all the corrosion found on heavy check. It has to be replaced with new parts.
 
NLINK
Posts: 340
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2003 3:20 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:41 pm

delta has stated though they are looking at looking at the older fleets and sub fleets. A lot of people had said they would never get rid of the 777, but they did. Delta has stated they are looking at some older fleet's as well as sublet's. In the big picture does it really make sense to operate 220-300,319-100 and 737-700? Questions to ask is it worth the cost to service those few markets from a CFO point of view? Can they be serviced with the 319 or 220?


As for the 717, I think it''s days re numbered. I'm not sure how revenant this article is from Forbes about a month ago, but it states that they are cutting the fleet in half, probably trying to keep that magic 90 or 91 aircraft in the 100 seat range.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... 60ce9652d2
 
evank516
Posts: 2138
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:19 pm

NLINK wrote:
delta has stated though they are looking at looking at the older fleets and sub fleets. A lot of people had said they would never get rid of the 777, but they did. Delta has stated they are looking at some older fleet's as well as sublet's. In the big picture does it really make sense to operate 220-300,319-100 and 737-700? Questions to ask is it worth the cost to service those few markets from a CFO point of view? Can they be serviced with the 319 or 220?


As for the 717, I think it''s days re numbered. I'm not sure how revenant this article is from Forbes about a month ago, but it states that they are cutting the fleet in half, probably trying to keep that magic 90 or 91 aircraft in the 100 seat range.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... 60ce9652d2


The 737-700 is still young in the Delta fleet. They only introduced them about 11 years ago, and they are used for specialty routes. They have commonality with the 738 and the 739 as well. I'm not sure if the 319 or 220-300 could fill the gap on a route like ATL-EYW or ATL-TGU while I know they did use the A319 on ATL-EYW here and there, I think the 73G is still the better performer for it.
 
User avatar
NWAROOSTER
Posts: 1336
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 2:29 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:10 pm

NLINK wrote:

As for the 717, I think it''s days re numbered. I'm not sure how revenant this article is from Forbes about a month ago, but it states that they are cutting the fleet in half, probably trying to keep that magic 90 or 91 aircraft in the 100 seat range.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... 60ce9652d2

As noted in another thread, the leases for the 717s expire in 2018 through 2024 from Boeing Capital and WN. Delta apparently agreed to add another Seven years to the leases from Boeing Capital which would mean they would start expiring in 2025 running through about 2031 if that is a fact. Delta may have an early out on these leases or be able to turn them back to Boeing by working out a new aircraft purchase on additional aircraft like they did with the 787s that Northwest ordered. I do not think they would consider any 737 MAX aircraft. Delta could also work out an arrangement with Airbus where they took possession of the 717s and Delta would purchase additional aircraft from Airbus. Hawaiian could consider leasing or purchasing some of the lower cycle 717s replacing their higher cycle 717s keeping some as spare for backup and possible parts aircraft. Hawaiian may become the last operator of the 717 due their unique operating routes and quick turn arounds. :old:
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
United857
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:37 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:04 pm

NWAROOSTER wrote:
NLINK wrote:

As for the 717, I think it''s days re numbered. I'm not sure how revenant this article is from Forbes about a month ago, but it states that they are cutting the fleet in half, probably trying to keep that magic 90 or 91 aircraft in the 100 seat range.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... 60ce9652d2

As noted in another thread, the leases for the 717s expire in 2018 through 2024 from Boeing Capital and WN. Delta apparently agreed to add another Seven years to the leases from Boeing Capital which would mean they would start expiring in 2025 running through about 2031 if that is a fact. Delta may have an early out on these leases or be able to turn them back to Boeing by working out a new aircraft purchase on additional aircraft like they did with the 787s that Northwest ordered. I do not think they would consider any 737 MAX aircraft. Delta could also work out an arrangement with Airbus where they took possession of the 717s and Delta would purchase additional aircraft from Airbus. Hawaiian could consider leasing or purchasing some of the lower cycle 717s replacing their higher cycle 717s keeping some as spare for backup and possible parts aircraft. Hawaiian may become the last operator of the 717 due their unique operating routes and quick turn arounds. :old:

There is also the issue of the 717's seats being subject to an airworthiness directive that comes into effect in mid-2022. Apparently their design is prone to breaking people's necks in the event of a crash, and therefore must be replaced by that date. I don't know if Delta will be willing to spend all that money for new seats in a plane that may become hard to maintain in the near future.

You can find the news here: https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton ... e6477e4165
A319 A320 A321 A333 A343 A346 A388 B712 B733 B737 B738 B739 B744 B748 B752 B764 B772 B77L B77W B788 B789 CRJ2 E145 E75S E75L E190 MD88 MD90
AA AC B6 CA CX CZ DL EK FM HU JL KA LH LX MU NH NK TK UA US
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8072
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:16 pm

I went off the grid over the weekend.....here's what's coming out:

Aircraft returned from storage Sat 6/20:
1 B752 SBD-LAX

Aircraft returned from storage Sun 6/21
1 B738 MCI-RDU
1 B739 MCI-DTW
1 A320 SBD-SLC-BOS


Total aircraft returned from storage through Fri 6/19:
4 A359 (All A359s out of storage and returned to service)
1 A320
15 A321
3 B738
24 B739
2 B752
1 B753
1 B763
----
53 Total

Planned for Mon 6/22:
1 A320 SBD-BOS (N363NW)
1 A320 SBD-JFK (N365NW)
1 A321 MZJ-MSP
1 A321 MZJ-ATL
1 B763 BHM-ATL

*Does not include reactivation of aircraft that had parked or stored red at hub locations

3 B753s have returned to service with at least 3 more returning soon:
N596NW has returned to scheduled service, operating SLC-ATL-SLC daily. This aircraft had been kept in rolling parking at ATL and done periodic military charters over the past 2 months.
N594NW has returned to scheduled service effective 6/17. The aircraft had been kept in rolling parking at MSP and done periodic military charters and one-off revenue flights over the past 2 months
N581NW departed MZJ on 6/19

N593NW scheduled to depart VCV to LAX on Wed 6/24
2 B753 test flights in QRO scheduled this week for B753s that were coming out of heavy checks
 
tjerome
Posts: 343
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:18 pm

6200 takers on the departure packages so far, 80/20 split between retiring and opt out.
 
TW870
Posts: 1229
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:01 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:33 pm

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/worl ... e=Homepage

This is a big deal. If U.S. residents or citizens aren't allowed into the EU, then the whole DL Europe schedule for the second half of the summer will most likely get cut back down to the current level, with just a few hub service to CDG and AMS for European nationals. The U.S. and Brazil have out of control epidemics, and I am increasingly skeptical that Americans are going to be able to enter most places until things calm down. This will be terribly hard on the big three, as they have made their staffing plans assuming a gradual resumption of Europe in the second part of the summer.
 
HNLSLCPDX
Posts: 215
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:40 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:37 pm

TW870 wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/world/europe/coronavirus-EU-American-travel-ban.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

This is a big deal. If U.S. residents or citizens aren't allowed into the EU, then the whole DL Europe schedule for the second half of the summer will most likely get cut back down to the current level, with just a few hub service to CDG and AMS for European nationals. The U.S. and Brazil have out of control epidemics, and I am increasingly skeptical that Americans are going to be able to enter most places until things calm down. This will be terribly hard on the big three, as they have made their staffing plans assuming a gradual resumption of Europe in the second part of the summer.

I disagree with you. Ed Bastian has said that international travel will not come close to being back for quite sometime. Domestic travel is the bread and butter for the US big 3 and it’s clearly slowly, but surely coming back. So that’s what they’re planning their staffing levels around. If you really want to get specific then I will agree with on Brazil and that they might be the last country to get service back to the U.S.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5226
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:22 am

Well the article is simply saying EU is thinking of not lifting shutdown on US residents, which is basically going to kill all the TATL bookings for July/August. There were clearly some leisure bookings to justify DL and other legacies adding back a lot of those European flights.

Dont' shoot the messenger.
 
User avatar
klm617
Posts: 5037
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:29 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
I went off the grid over the weekend.....here's what's coming out:

Aircraft returned from storage Sat 6/20:
1 B752 SBD-LAX

Aircraft returned from storage Sun 6/21
1 B738 MCI-RDU
1 B739 MCI-DTW
1 A320 SBD-SLC-BOS


Total aircraft returned from storage through Fri 6/19:
4 A359 (All A359s out of storage and returned to service)
1 A320
15 A321
3 B738
24 B739
2 B752
1 B753
1 B763
----
53 Total

Planned for Mon 6/22:
1 A320 SBD-BOS (N363NW)
1 A320 SBD-JFK (N365NW)
1 A321 MZJ-MSP
1 A321 MZJ-ATL
1 B763 BHM-ATL

*Does not include reactivation of aircraft that had parked or stored red at hub locations

3 B753s have returned to service with at least 3 more returning soon:
N596NW has returned to scheduled service, operating SLC-ATL-SLC daily. This aircraft had been kept in rolling parking at ATL and done periodic military charters over the past 2 months.
N594NW has returned to scheduled service effective 6/17. The aircraft had been kept in rolling parking at MSP and done periodic military charters and one-off revenue flights over the past 2 months
N581NW departed MZJ on 6/19

N593NW scheduled to depart VCV to LAX on Wed 6/24
2 B753 test flights in QRO scheduled this week for B753s that were coming out of heavy checks



I wonder why so few of these aircraft returning to service are being flown to DTW verses the other Delta hubs.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8072
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:32 am

Let's be real though, I highly doubt much of that TATL demand that is out there now for the remainder is truly leisure travel. No one of a sane mind is looking to gallivant to either side of the Atlantic for a true vacation.

That demand that is out there is in some shape of form of perceived-to-be-necessary travel. A lot of that is "VFR", where you have family / relatives that have not seen each other in person in months or have care-giving matters to attend to, a subset of people who split residence between multiple places and go between places throughout the year, and some amount of operations-critical travel for global multinationals.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8072
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:39 am

klm617 wrote:
I wonder why so few of these aircraft returning to service are being flown to DTW verses the other Delta hubs.

Don't read too much into it, the aircraft returning to storage go to all hubs. ATL obviously gets the most, but they are going to DTW, MSP, SLC, SEA, LAX, JFK, BOS, RDU. Some is a function of available parking postions at hubs and/or maintenance.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8072
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:58 am

Returned on Mon 6/22:
1 A320 SBD-BOS (N363NW)
1 A320 SBD-JFK (N365NW)
1 A321 MZJ-MSP
1 A321 MZJ-ATL
1 B763 BHM-ATL

Returned on Tue 6/23:
1 B739 MWH-SLC
1 B738 MCI-JFK
1 B739 MCI-MSP

Total aircraft returned from storage through Tue 6/23:
4 A359 (All A359s out of storage and returned to service)
3 A320
17 A321
4 B738
26 B739
2 B752
1 B753
2 B763
----
61 Total

Planned for Wed 6/24::
QRO - 2 B753 test flights, N582NW & N583NW
1 B738 MCI-ATL
1 A321 MCI-MCO


*Does not include reactivation of aircraft that had parked or stored red at hub locations

3 B753s have returned to service with at least 4 more returning soon:
N596NW has returned to scheduled service, operating SLC-ATL-SLC daily. This aircraft had been kept in rolling parking at ATL and done periodic military charters over the past 2 months.
N594NW has returned to scheduled service effective 6/17. The aircraft had been kept in rolling parking at MSP and done periodic military charters and one-off revenue flights over the past 2 months
N581NW departed MZJ on 6/19

N593NW was scheduled to depart VCV to LAX on Wed 6/24, now cancelled
N582NW scheduled for mx test flight QRO 6/24
N583NW scheduled for mx test flight QRO 6/24
N589NW scheduled to depart QRO to ATL on Thu 6/25

3 A320s have been removed from storage, currently in BOS & JFK
N361NW, N363NW, N365NW
 
TW870
Posts: 1229
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:01 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:21 am

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
TW870 wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/world/europe/coronavirus-EU-American-travel-ban.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

This is a big deal. If U.S. residents or citizens aren't allowed into the EU, then the whole DL Europe schedule for the second half of the summer will most likely get cut back down to the current level, with just a few hub service to CDG and AMS for European nationals. The U.S. and Brazil have out of control epidemics, and I am increasingly skeptical that Americans are going to be able to enter most places until things calm down. This will be terribly hard on the big three, as they have made their staffing plans assuming a gradual resumption of Europe in the second part of the summer.

I disagree with you. Ed Bastian has said that international travel will not come close to being back for quite sometime. Domestic travel is the bread and butter for the US big 3 and it’s clearly slowly, but surely coming back. So that’s what they’re planning their staffing levels around. If you really want to get specific then I will agree with on Brazil and that they might be the last country to get service back to the U.S.


I hear what you are saying, but there is a significant difference between a gradually improving international curve (resuming China, and non-hub Europe) and international lockdown like we have now. The pilot displacement bid assumed a fully active A350 fleet and a good chunk of the 330s and 764s also operating. With the proposed EU rules against the US (presumably others will follow), they will either have to eat the cost by paying average line value to idled pilots, or face the chaos of more training churn by re-bidding again. Even more importantly, if the upward trajectory of COVID continues in sunbelt spots (LAX, PHX, IAH, MIA/FLL, and CLT among many others), domestic will also fall off.

The virus is totally unpredictable, so things may change course again. Rolling two-weak new cases were flat ten days ago and are inching upward about 4% a day, which is a lot. But Corona could easily pull back again and dissipate like it had around memorial day. The bottom line is the virus - and nothing else - is going to determine what the recovery looks like for Delta and everyone else.
 
User avatar
NWAESC
Posts: 1586
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:27 am

tjerome wrote:
6200 takers on the departure packages so far, 80/20 split between retiring and opt out.


Source?
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
n7371f
Posts: 1830
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:45 am

While we're at it...is it possible to bring nwa.com and the Northwest mainframe out of storage?
 
gaystudpilot
Posts: 266
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:55 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:00 am

n7371f wrote:
While we're at it...is it possible to bring nwa.com and the Northwest mainframe out of storage?


And a few DC9’s?
 
Ursula21
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:42 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:20 am

NWAESC wrote:
tjerome wrote:
6200 takers on the departure packages so far, 80/20 split between retiring and opt out.


Source?

These numbers are passed down from the DLC through the management chain. No one wants to be the source on that.
 
airhansa
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:18 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:52 pm

United's focus on Newark might be to provide an alternative for international flights. Due to language and cultural barriers, it's hard for American airlines to win against local airlines on international routes, who often fly to JFK, so Newark offers an alternative airport which is closer to Manhattan.
 
TW870
Posts: 1229
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:01 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:12 pm

Note this also:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/24/worl ... k-52f2c800

This will significantly impact New York metro-Florida, New York metro-Texas, and New York Metro-Charlotte. Obviously this is not just a Delta issue, as the ULCCs have actually been most aggressive about leveraging the warm weather tourist market. But this is going to have a major impact on the operational restart over the next couple of months, as folks from the northeast are not going to be able to go to most of the summer beach markets.
 
User avatar
DL747400
Posts: 957
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:04 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:44 pm

tjerome wrote:
6200 takers on the departure packages so far, 80/20 split between retiring and opt out.


I'm thinking that people may be stunned by the final number of package takers. Many more early retirements than voluntary severance, but it would not surprise me at all if we see 30-50% of the 90,000 employees taking one of the packages.
From First to Worst: The history of Airliners.net.

All posts reflect my opinions, not those of my employer or any other company.
 
0newair0
Posts: 417
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:21 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:24 pm

DL747400 wrote:
tjerome wrote:
6200 takers on the departure packages so far, 80/20 split between retiring and opt out.


I'm thinking that people may be stunned by the final number of package takers. Many more early retirements than voluntary severance, but it would not surprise me at all if we see 30-50% of the 90,000 employees taking one of the packages.
50% is a too extreme. The unstated goal is 25-30% and I believe the final numbers will be at or slightly under goal.
That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
 
adtall
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:53 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:25 pm

If it's 30% I'll be stupefied, maybe for flight attendants but for ACS as an overall number I'd be shocked.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2487
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:32 pm

TW870 wrote:
This will be terribly hard on the big three, as they have made their staffing plans assuming a gradual resumption of Europe in the second part of the summer.


More likely this will be terrible hard on AF/KL and LH.
 
HNLSLCPDX
Posts: 215
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:40 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:45 pm

adtall wrote:
If it's 30% I'll be stupefied, maybe for flight attendants but for ACS as an overall number I'd be shocked.

I agree. I think the overall Percentage with the 90,000 employees, it will be around 20%.
 
tjerome
Posts: 343
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:48 pm

NWAESC wrote:
tjerome wrote:
6200 takers on the departure packages so far, 80/20 split between retiring and opt out.


Source?


Sent you a PM.

0newair0 wrote:
DL747400 wrote:
tjerome wrote:
6200 takers on the departure packages so far, 80/20 split between retiring and opt out.


I'm thinking that people may be stunned by the final number of package takers. Many more early retirements than voluntary severance, but it would not surprise me at all if we see 30-50% of the 90,000 employees taking one of the packages.
50% is a too extreme. The unstated goal is 25-30% and I believe the final numbers will be at or slightly under goal.


I think combined it could end up being over 10,000 but not much more than that. No way it gets to 22,500 (25% of 90,000).
 
0newair0
Posts: 417
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:21 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:53 pm

tjerome wrote:
NWAESC wrote:
tjerome wrote:
6200 takers on the departure packages so far, 80/20 split between retiring and opt out.


Source?


Sent you a PM.

0newair0 wrote:
DL747400 wrote:

I'm thinking that people may be stunned by the final number of package takers. Many more early retirements than voluntary severance, but it would not surprise me at all if we see 30-50% of the 90,000 employees taking one of the packages.
50% is a too extreme. The unstated goal is 25-30% and I believe the final numbers will be at or slightly under goal.


I think combined it could end up being over 10,000 but not much more than that. No way it gets to 22,500 (25% of 90,000).
I can't reveal my source, but current projections are on track to meet goal (within a few points +/-).
That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
 
HNLSLCPDX
Posts: 215
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:40 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:00 pm

My source tell me right now it’s close to 7,000 people that have signed up for either the voluntary opt out or retirement.
 
adtall
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:53 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:03 pm

Of note as well is there isn't a pilot early out package to my knowledge as ALPA needs to sign off and I don't believe that has happened. Pilots are a large group of that 90,000 employees.
 
Dalmd88
Posts: 3139
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 3:19 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:41 am

I think the retirement rate for Tech Ops will be high. There are a lot of mechanics that are in the window that this package is aimed at. Over 60 just needing a push to go. For many medical was a hold up. The employee was eligible for Medicare but not the spouse whom is dependent on the employee for medical. This plan gives them an exit. Now some will never leave unless it's in a pine box.
 
User avatar
DL_Mech
Posts: 2495
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 7:48 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:49 am

Dalmd88 wrote:
Now some will never leave unless it's in a pine box.


That is the truth......
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
tjerome
Posts: 343
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:11 am

adtall wrote:
Of note as well is there isn't a pilot early out package to my knowledge as ALPA needs to sign off and I don't believe that has happened. Pilots are a large group of that 90,000 employees.


Good point, that is still in the works.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 5286
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:34 pm

Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
gsg013
Posts: 560
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:03 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:58 pm

Is there any indication when BNA-LAX will return on DL?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8072
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:32 pm

gsg013 wrote:
Is there any indication when BNA-LAX will return on DL?

It is loaded in the schedule effective 8/1 at 1x daily 738
They just did a big adjustment pull-down to reflect the post-COVID schedule for August last weekend and its there starting 8/1
September still reflects the pre-COVID schedule and won't be pulled down at least for another 3 weeks.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8072
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:14 pm

Returned on Wed 6/24:
1 B738 MCI-MSP
1 B739 MCI-JFK
1 A321 MCI-MCO
QRO - 2 B753 test flights, N582NW & N583NW

Total aircraft returned from storage through Wed 6/24:
4 A359 (All A359s out of storage and returned to service)
3 A320
18 A321
5 B738
27 B739
2 B752
1 B753
2 B763
----
64 Total

Planned for Thu 6/24: (13, biggest day of aircraft reactivations to-date)
1 A320 SBD-JFK (N349NW)
1 A320 SBD-ATL (N350NA)
1 B753 SBD-SLC (N591NW)

1 A321 MZJ-ATL (N392DN)
1 A321 MZJ-DTW (N387DN)

1 B753 QRO-ATL (N589NW) mx exit
1 B753 QRO-ATL (N582NW or N583NW) mx exit

1 A321 MCI-MSP (N301DV)
1 A321 MCI-MCO (N333DX)
1 B739 MCI-ATL (N928DU)
1 B739 MCI-JFK (N858DZ)
1 B739 MCI-JFK (N860DN)
1 B739 MCI-JFK (N869DN)


Planned for Fri 6/25:
1 A320 SBD-MIA (N364NW)
1 B753 QRO-ATL (N582NW or N583NW) mx exit

*Does not include reactivation of aircraft that had parked or stored red at hub locations

3 B753s have returned to service with at least 5 more returning soon:
N596NW has returned to scheduled service, operating SLC-ATL-SLC daily. This aircraft had been kept in rolling parking at ATL and done periodic military charters over the past 2 months.
N594NW has returned to scheduled service effective 6/17. The aircraft had been kept in rolling parking at MSP and done periodic military charters and one-off revenue flights over the past 2 months
N581NW departed MZJ on 6/19

N593NW was scheduled to depart VCV to LAX on Wed 6/24, now cancelled
N582NW mx test flight QRO 6/24, scheduled to depart QRO to ATL on 6/25 or 6/26
N583NW mx test flight QRO 6/24, scheduled to depart QRO to ATL on 6/25 or 6/26
N589NW scheduled to depart QRO to ATL on Thu 6/25
N591NW scheduled to depart SBD to SLC on Thu 6/25

3 A320s have been removed from storage, currently in BOS & JFK
N361NW, N363NW, N365NW

3 additional A320 scheduled to be removed from storage in SBD this week
N349NW, N350NA, N364NW
 
panamair
Posts: 4332
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:41 pm

Apparently Ed announced in an internal memo today that Delta is unlikely to add many more flights post-August, especially given the recent spike in cases..

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-sa ... 38861.html
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8072
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:49 pm

He made similar comments in a CNBC interview last week, and frankly its not surprising based on how summer leisure is going to wind now, and business travel is going to limp along at only whatever is deemed critical and essential for the remainder of the year.

At least by what they are restoring through August, they have re-established decent connectivity at the core hubs.
 
lavalampluva
Posts: 1433
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:33 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:51 pm

panamair wrote:
Apparently Ed announced in an internal memo today that Delta is unlikely to add many more flights post-August, especially given the recent spike in cases..

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-sa ... 38861.html

Sounds like the EU to proposing a ban on US Citizens due to the spike in positive cases. If that happens that will have a huge impact on the Big 3.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
0newair0
Posts: 417
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:21 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:54 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
panamair wrote:
Apparently Ed announced in an internal memo today that Delta is unlikely to add many more flights post-August, especially given the recent spike in cases..

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-sa ... 38861.html

Sounds like the EU to proposing a ban on US Citizens due to the spike in positive cases. If that happens that will have a huge impact on the Big 3.
Believe this impact is being overstated. The big 3 are doing very little Europe flying now so a restriction or ban on US travel would have minimal impact on them.
That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3511
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a

Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:41 pm

0newair0 wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
panamair wrote:
Apparently Ed announced in an internal memo today that Delta is unlikely to add many more flights post-August, especially given the recent spike in cases..

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-sa ... 38861.html

Sounds like the EU to proposing a ban on US Citizens due to the spike in positive cases. If that happens that will have a huge impact on the Big 3.
Believe this impact is being overstated. The big 3 are doing very little Europe flying now so a restriction or ban on US travel would have minimal impact on them.


I think you could argue if this happens it would be a big impact. Maybe not from current levels, but from normal levels. The longer they go with low European service the more it hurts. Especially if it goes to basically zero.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8072
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:00 pm

I'm not sure its as big a financial/economic issue for DL than it is symbolic with the EU ban

Summer leisure/tourism demand was already gone for Summer 2020 and most of the rest of the year.
Even the flights that were going to operate were probably going to struggle to cover the variable costs considering their capacity/seat blocking limitations, lack of higher yielding business travel, and lack of close-in demand/bookings.

The demand that is going to come back is because of any family/personal/residential ties or critical business needs. This is essentially the "pent-up" demand that will come back as some as feasible and allowable. The discretionary TATL demand was already vaporized for the most part until 2021 at this point anyways.

DL just needs to get to a point of viable demand to limp them through until Feb/Mar of 2021 and hope to all heck that business travel ramps up and leisure travel for spring 2021 comes back.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5226
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:46 pm

panamair wrote:
Apparently Ed announced in an internal memo today that Delta is unlikely to add many more flights post-August, especially given the recent spike in cases..

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-sa ... 38861.html


Thanks for the article.

The Aug cuts we saw this past sunday's OAG is just the first adjustment. We will see another adjustment of capacity to down to 45% level as opposed to 55 to 60% that it is at right now. I'd expect the recent surges in Texas/Arizona/Florida to affect their decisions. If they are indeed not making any additions for the rest of the year, then I'm assuming the next time they increase capacity will be for late February and early March since January and early February is normally quite dead. That should give DL route planners an opportunity to figure out how to remake their network.

Also, I'm not sure how analysts can take their comments of being cash neutral by Q4 seriously when they are only getting 25% of the revenues for summer and not planning to add capacity rest of the year. Even if they can get more advanced booking for spring/summer international travel by December, I still don't see how that can reach anything close to at least 60 to 70% revenue that would be needed to be cash neutral. And even for rest of this summer, their cash burn situation is unlikely to change without additional capacity.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos