Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
N649DL
Posts: 989
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:55 pm

RobertS975 wrote:
TropicalSky wrote:
Thanks for the update...this is very telling in my opinion on where they (DAL) saw their STRONGEST REVENUE....moving forward and depending on the growth strength would be interesting to see with cities return first.

panamair wrote:

Well you can already get a glimpse of what S21 would look like for TATL with the schedule changes from this weekend. Of course S21 is a long time away and schedules will be continually modified, but it does give you an indication of what DL’s priorities are and where they think the traffic will be:

Out of the 77 TATL nonstop routes planned originally for S20, 52 are coming back so far for S21 and 25 have been removed for booking even into late June 2021:

TATL (Europe/Israel/Africa/India):

JFK nonstops to:
LHR, EDI, DUB, AMS, BRU, CDG, NCE, FRA, BER, ZRH, MXP, FCO, VCE, ATH, LIS, MAD, BCN, KEF, TLV, DSS, ACC, LOS.
Suspended: GLA, SNN, CPH, PRG and BOM

ATL nonstops to:
LHR, DUB, AMS, CDG, FRA, MUC, STR, FCO, MAD, BCN, JNB, LOS.
Suspended: MXP, VCE, BRU, ZRH, and DUS

DTW nonstops to:
LHR, AMS, CDG, FRA
Suspended: MUC, FCO

MSP nonstops to:
LHR, AMS, CDG
Suspended: KEF

BOS nonstops to:
LHR, DUB, AMS, CDG
Suspended: EDI, MAN, LGW, LIS, FCO (some of these were new for S20 and never even got to start)

SEA nonstops to:
AMS, CDG. No suspensions

SLC nonstops to:
AMS
Suspended: LHR, CDG

LAX nonstop to
CDG
Suspended: AMS

PDX nonstop to
AMS
Suspended LHR

RDU-CDG and CVG-CDG so far will return in S21 but not IND-CDG, MCO-AMS nor TPA-AMS



This makes the second time that BOS-FCO was announced but never started. It was killed by the traffic decline after 9/11 as well as by the pandemic.


IND-CDG on a 763 was way too much aircraft for the route anyway. I'm fairly convinced it was a business or state route that subsidized it. I think the aircraft allocation came from EWR-CDG and now I wonder if DL wishes they stayed put in that market over trying out IND?
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8156
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:11 pm

IND-CDG had a two-year subsidy from the Indiana State Economic Development office:
Year 1 - $55 per passenger up to a total cap of $3.5M
Year 2 - $35 per passenger up to a total cap of $2M

50-60% LF would net the full amount of the subsidy.
https://www.ibj.com/articles/68571-term ... ndy-market
 
Lootess
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:34 pm

I don't think there was any love lost at pulling EWR-CDG at the time, and with VS pulling the beloved flight 2 of EWR-LHR the decision makes even sense.

CVG-CDG has been around a long time, and it's decent performer being the former hub, and of course Glen likes CVG. No need to backtrack to ORD or trek up to DTW. If anything it's been why DTW usually gets by with one flight.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8156
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:39 pm

Activity has really slowed down since August 1, after the significant number of reactivations in June & July to support the increased schedule. Since the schedule isn't anticipated to grow significantly in the near term I'd imagine we will just continue to see this trickle of reactivations continue particularly based on maintenance checks and balancing the costs of continuing to keep in storage versus in light-duty usage.

Sat 8/1:
1 B752 VCV-LAX
1 B752 VCV-LAX
1 B752 MZJ-BOS
1 B763 ILN-JFK

Sun 8/2:
None

Mon 8/3
1 B738 MWH-ATL

Tue 8/4:
None

Wed 8/5
1 B752 MZJ-DTW
1 B739 MWH-ATL

Thu 8/6:
None

Fri 8/7:
1 B739 VCV-ATL (N878DN)

Sat 8/8:
1 A320 SBD-SAL (N378NW) (youngest A320 in fleet)
1 A319 SAL-ATL
1 A320 BHM-SAL

Sun 8/9:

Mon 8/10:
None

Returned to storage/retirement:
Mon 8/10:
1 B73G MCI-SBD (N309DE) (leaving storage at MCI likely to be parked at SBD)
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 5362
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:47 pm

N649DL wrote:
RobertS975 wrote:
TropicalSky wrote:
Thanks for the update...this is very telling in my opinion on where they (DAL) saw their STRONGEST REVENUE....moving forward and depending on the growth strength would be interesting to see with cities return first.




This makes the second time that BOS-FCO was announced but never started. It was killed by the traffic decline after 9/11 as well as by the pandemic.


IND-CDG on a 763 was way too much aircraft for the route anyway. I'm fairly convinced it was a business or state route that subsidized it. I think the aircraft allocation came from EWR-CDG and now I wonder if DL wishes they stayed put in that market over trying out IND?



"But really given the strength and -- of the frequent-flyer base and the loyalty we have in Indianapolis"

"Really exciting for us the results, too. Indianapolis to Paris is doing quite well in its first year of operation"
https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-tran ... ce-ca.aspx

"Delta has indicated that it plans to increase the frequency of the Paris route this September"

"The route has performed as well as other established markets with similar service, which is a promising sign"
https://www.ibj.com/articles/73896-one- ... lying-high
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
FSDan
Posts: 3340
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:44 pm

TropicalSky wrote:
i would think they (DAL) want their metal on CDG due to the higher yields with some business traffic whereas AMS tend to be connections

rjbesikof wrote:
jplatts wrote:

While DL has suspended LAX-AMS nonstop service, KL still has plans to serve AMS nonstop from LAX in Summer 2021.


KLM operates LAX-AMS year round. In the summer though, they operate a second later afternoon frequency (KL603/KL604) in addition to the early afternoon year round flight (KL601/KL602). Surprised Delta is leaving LAX-AMS to KLM while they will still help AF with LAX-CDG. Does anyone know why?


The yield makes no difference in this case. DL is in a profit-sharing JV with AF and KL on both these routes, so there's no incentive for DL to have its own metal on either route unless that's what makes the most sense operationally for the JV as a whole.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
onwFan
Topic Author
Posts: 470
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:02 pm

https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-ai ... texas/amp/

Looks like DL is dropping CVG-AUS. But they are retaining DFW & IAH? I would have thought the AUS route must be the one that would remain, given their wanting to establish a focus city there.
 
kavok
Posts: 844
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:10 pm

onwFan wrote:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-airlines-5-new-routes-delta-cincinnati-texas/amp/

Looks like DL is dropping CVG-AUS. But they are retaining DFW & IAH? I would have thought the AUS route must be the one that would remain, given their wanting to establish a focus city there.


It’s probably more of a situation where DL can always add back CVG-AUS at some point in the future when demand returns, should the focus city plans come to fruition. Basically, none of the other legacies are going to add CVG-AUS, so it is not handing those pax over to the competition by dropping the nonstop.

Obviously AA and UA will continue to serve DFW-CVG and IAH-CVG respectively, so there would be harm to DL in dropping those routes short term and turning those pax over to the nonstop offered by the competition.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3698
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:25 pm

kavok wrote:
onwFan wrote:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-airlines-5-new-routes-delta-cincinnati-texas/amp/

Looks like DL is dropping CVG-AUS. But they are retaining DFW & IAH? I would have thought the AUS route must be the one that would remain, given their wanting to establish a focus city there.


It’s probably more of a situation where DL can always add back CVG-AUS at some point in the future when demand returns, should the focus city plans come to fruition. Basically, none of the other legacies are going to add CVG-AUS, so it is not handing those pax over to the competition by dropping the nonstop.

Obviously AA and UA will continue to serve DFW-CVG and IAH-CVG respectively, so there would be harm to DL in dropping those routes short term and turning those pax over to the nonstop offered by the competition.


In addition to AA and UA continuing to serve DFW and IAH nonstop from CVG, WN adding DAL-CVG and HOU-CVG nonstop service and G4 adding HOU-CVG nonstop service are also possibilities. There is also enough room at both DAL and HOU to accommodate DAL-CVG and HOU-CVG nonstop service with the cuts that WN has made at DAL and HOU in the last 5 months as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic.

DL also still has a FF base in the Dallas/Fort Worth market to support DFW-CVG nonstop service on DL, even with the AA DFW hub and WN DAL home base.

WN adding CVG-AUS nonstop service might be a possibility once demand for domestic air travel returns to normal levels with DL dropping CVG-AUS nonstop service and F9 no longer serving AUS nonstop from CVG. WN might be able to make CVG-AUS nonstop service work if DL or F9 don't re-add CVG-AUS nonstop service as there were an average of 100 passengers per day on the DL and F9 CVG-AUS nonstop flights in Q3 2019 and as the PDEW of CVG-AUS was 131 passengers per day in Q3 2019.
 
FSDan
Posts: 3340
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:55 pm

onwFan wrote:
https://thepointsguy.com/news/united-airlines-5-new-routes-delta-cincinnati-texas/amp/

Looks like DL is dropping CVG-AUS. But they are retaining DFW & IAH? I would have thought the AUS route must be the one that would remain, given their wanting to establish a focus city there.


Not surprising, IMHO. I'm not sure what the local market is like for CVG-AUS, but it has to be way smaller than either CVG-DFW or CVG-IAH. Given that DL isn't chasing connecting traffic at CVG and that this was one of the most recent markets added, it makes sense that it's one of the first to go. Also, from the AUS point of sale side, I doubt CVG is a "must serve" destination in the way that JFK, LAX, SEA, and BOS are.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1237
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:30 pm

Any chance the October schedule is released tonight?
 
jb1087xna
Posts: 493
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:11 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:35 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Any chance the October schedule is released tonight?


Unless they’ve changed their major schedule update habits, doesn’t appear it has been released this weekend. Normally it hits mid-morning on Saturday, with aftermath cleanups (rescheduling/modifying reservations) happening the rest of the day and into Sunday.
My home base airport still shows the same schedule right now for October that has been shown since the beginning of the year. No way that holds.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2614
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:17 am

Any idea on what happens to MCO/TPA-AMS?
 
FSDan
Posts: 3340
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:34 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Any idea on what happens to MCO/TPA-AMS?


My guess is both are gone for at least the medium term. There's a chance DL or KL would pick MCO-AMS back up at some future point when demand recovers. But I think it'll take TPA quite a long time to get back to the level of transatlantic service they had in 2019. If they can keep BA to LGW and LH to FRA, they'll be doing pretty well IMHO.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:16 pm

I know Delta has zeroed out some of the TATL flying for next year. Have they done the same for TPAC yet?
 
kavok
Posts: 844
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:40 am

rjbesikof wrote:
I know Delta has zeroed out some of the TATL flying for next year. Have they done the same for TPAC yet?


Beyond the PVG flights, which are rolling schedule drops that appear more to do with US-China relations (I.e. the current 1 flight per week rule), DL has the following TPAC:

Operating:
ICN: ATL, DTW, SEA (KE also operates some destinations)
HND: ATL, DTW, LAX, SEA
PVG: DTW, SEA (1x weekly)
The ATL-ICN flights have seen frequency reductions.

Rolling Cancellations:
ICN: MSP
HND: MSP, PDX
NGO: DTW
PKX: DTW, SEA
PVG: ATL
All the HNL-Asia flights also appear to be rolling cancellations as well.

Off the Schedule:
KIX: SEA
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:04 am

kavok wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
I know Delta has zeroed out some of the TATL flying for next year. Have they done the same for TPAC yet?


Beyond the PVG flights, which are rolling schedule drops that appear more to do with US-China relations (I.e. the current 1 flight per week rule), DL has the following TPAC:

Operating:
ICN: ATL, DTW, SEA (KE also operates some destinations)
HND: ATL, DTW, LAX, SEA
PVG: DTW, SEA (1x weekly)
The ATL-ICN flights have seen frequency reductions.

Rolling Cancellations:
ICN: MSP
HND: MSP, PDX
NGO: DTW
PKX: DTW, SEA
PVG: ATL
All the HNL-Asia flights also appear to be rolling cancellations as well.

Off the Schedule:
KIX: SEA


Thank you kavok. Secondary Japan does not surprise me since Delta has no partner there. PDX is also not a surprise since Seattle and LAX are relatively close.
Why is HND going to have more flights this winter than ICN? Also, how is ICN-MNL doing?
 
GSPSPOT
Posts: 2544
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:44 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:36 pm

klm617 wrote:
TW870 wrote:
enilria wrote:
I do think SEA is a major flashpoint with AA/DL/AS all involved in it. Of course now is not the time to flush money down the toilet, so DL is not pressing the issue, but they are definitely not relatively backing off either. AA is clearly being aggressive, and I'd say AS has been somewhat aggressive with capacity as well post-COVID. It will be interesting to see if DL does anything "new" with its traditional interior hub structure during a prolonged COVID climbback. In past recessions one interior hub has fallen off the boat each time.


Agreed completely enilria. Also, debating hub structure right now is like rearranging the deck furniture on the titanic as it sinks. In the US, we botched the testing and contact tracing phase of the pandemic, so are not getting the "in between" period in the pandemic to the extent that Europe and Asia are, where some traffic comes back in a period pre-vaccine but while overall spread is low. To me, the only thing to talk about going forward is whether or not we also botch the vaccine roll-out. If the vaccine comes quickly and is administered smoothly, I think you will see an airline recovery and a hub structure about like it is now. If the vaccine roll out is slow, inefficient, and riddled with controversy, summer 2021 will basically be summer 2020, and then I do think you will see lots of hubs and focus cities shut down long term. But right now, we just don't have that information.


At this point I think we are looking at the virus dying out verse a vaccine coming on the market. To me we are going to have to wait until this thing runs it's course while doing things to stop the spread.

Sadly, I agree.
Great Lakes, great life.
 
Lootess
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:31 pm

kavok wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
I know Delta has zeroed out some of the TATL flying for next year. Have they done the same for TPAC yet?


Beyond the PVG flights, which are rolling schedule drops that appear more to do with US-China relations (I.e. the current 1 flight per week rule), DL has the following TPAC:

Operating:
ICN: ATL, DTW, SEA (KE also operates some destinations)
HND: ATL, DTW, LAX, SEA
PVG: DTW, SEA (1x weekly)
The ATL-ICN flights have seen frequency reductions.

Rolling Cancellations:
ICN: MSP
HND: MSP, PDX
NGO: DTW
PKX: DTW, SEA
PVG: ATL
All the HNL-Asia flights also appear to be rolling cancellations as well.

Off the Schedule:
KIX: SEA


Yeah, I looked in Sept and ATL-ICN has KE 789 daily, and some days DL flight 27 doesn't run.

ATL-PVG probably will be the last China frequency to come back online. As SEA and DTW are the primaries still targeted with the DOT limited slots.
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:26 pm

Could we see DL take over LAX to BNE or MEL now that VA will no longer do longhaul?
 
TropicalSky
Posts: 516
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 1:37 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:38 am

This is highly doubtful.......DAL during the good times was very cautious regarding longhaul flying and these routes aren't exactly in their wheelhouse. They weren't the strongest to SYDNEY with VA assistance what you think is gonna happen now with VA stuck in Chpt 11

rjbesikof wrote:
Could we see DL take over LAX to BNE or MEL now that VA will no longer do longhaul?
 
FSDan
Posts: 3340
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:43 am

rjbesikof wrote:
Could we see DL take over LAX to BNE or MEL now that VA will no longer do longhaul?


If they're able to continue connecting passengers to the most popular Oz destinations via SYD, that will probably be enough for the medium term.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8271
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:44 pm

TropicalSky wrote:
This is highly doubtful.......DAL during the good times was very cautious regarding longhaul flying and these routes aren't exactly in their wheelhouse. They weren't the strongest to SYDNEY with VA assistance what you think is gonna happen now with VA stuck in Chpt 11

rjbesikof wrote:
Could we see DL take over LAX to BNE or MEL now that VA will no longer do longhaul?


That VA is in Ch 11 isn't really the problem. The (shrunken) size of ops thru COVID and out of Ch 11 may be the problem. United flew 38 months through Chapter 11.

rjbesikof wrote:
Could we see DL take over LAX to BNE or MEL now that VA will no longer do longhaul?


I'm skeptical but it comes down to the rate of receipts for A350s (with the 777/77Ls going into retirement), and alternate uses for the A350s. DL hasn't announced the number/timing of deferred deliveries. If they get stuck taking aircraft they don't 'need'...
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 5362
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:11 pm

DL released its updated summer & winter TPAC & TATL schedule:
Image
Image
Image
https://news.delta.com/delta-brings-bac ... ummer-2021
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
alfa164
Posts: 3666
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:02 pm

So... mostly secondary European cities that won't be coming back next summer. No more CPH, DUS, or LIS (which I thought had been doing so well, it was changed from seasonal to year-round); AGP and TXL are really no surprise.

If VA remains a viable partner - albeit limited to domestic flights - I wonder if DL might consider adding BNE or even MEL (can the 350 handle that?) before the busy winter 2021 season.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
panamair
Posts: 4344
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:16 pm

alfa164 wrote:
So... mostly secondary European cities that won't be coming back next summer. No more CPH, DUS, or LIS (which I thought had been doing so well, it was changed from seasonal to year-round); AGP and TXL are really no surprise.


JFK-LIS is back starting next summer. The cities suspended are SNN, GLA, DUS, BER, PRG and CPH. The seasonal ones returning are KEF, NCE, VCE and ATH. EDI, LIS and STR were year-round pre-Covid but have been suspended for this winter, but they are scheduled to be back S21.
 
User avatar
klm617
Posts: 5106
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:04 am

Midwestindy wrote:
DL released its updated summer & winter TPAC & TATL schedule:
Image
Image
Image
https://news.delta.com/delta-brings-bac ... ummer-2021


I wonder what the status of Detroit - Beijing is.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
rjbesikof
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 4:21 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:17 am

Midwestindy wrote:
DL released its updated summer & winter TPAC & TATL schedule:
Image
Image
Image
https://news.delta.com/delta-brings-bac ... ummer-2021


My take on this schedule update:
1) They're giving India up to American and United.
2) HND and ICN will return to full schedules come spring.
3) BOS seems to be getting pulled down the most (LGW, FCO, EDI won't start).
4) They still intend on taking on AA (SEA and JFK will continue to be hubs).
5) DL is countering AA's LAX pulldown by keeping all but AMS (KLM still serves LAX-AMS).

Some Questions:
1) Why are they dropping KIX but not NGO?
2) What is the role of each hub going forward?
3) Could DL operate PRG, BER, and some of the other cities dropped on their own metal but from AMS or CDG instead of JFK?
 
User avatar
NWAESC
Posts: 1602
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:33 am

rjbesikof wrote:
1) Why are they dropping KIX but not NGO?


IIRC, NGO traffic has always been driven in large part by the auto industry (Toyota's HQ is there). That might've made the difference here.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8271
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:44 am

NWAESC wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
1) Why are they dropping KIX but not NGO?


IIRC, NGO traffic has always been driven in large part by the auto industry (Toyota's HQ is there). That might've made the difference here.


KIX has come and gone a few times. DTW-NGO goes back to 1992. https://www.deltamuseum.org/exhibits/de ... ades/1990s

Toyota Technical Center in Ann Arbor plus the KY, IN, WV manufacturing footprint of Toyota.
 
tjerome
Posts: 347
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:35 am

rjbesikof wrote:
3) BOS seems to be getting pulled down the most (LGW, FCO, EDI won't start).


BOS is losing LIS, EDI, LGW, MAN, FCO. The last 3 were supposed to have started this summer.
JFK is losing SNN, PRG, CPH, GLA, BER. Additionally they are losing 1 LHR frequency and KEF is not daily.

So equal complete destination losses, not factoring in frequencies out of JFK. Certainly BOS is a higher percentage due to the stark differences in amount of destinations from JFK.

rjbesikof wrote:
3) Could DL operate PRG, BER, and some of the other cities dropped on their own metal but from AMS or CDG instead of JFK?


Doubt it on these reasons:
1. AF/KL operate those flights already
2. Doubt the pilots could contractually be scheduled JFK-CDG-PRG without having to lay over in CDG, thus creating a longer rotation/more pay for them.
 
Lootess
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:33 am

klm617 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
DL released its updated summer & winter TPAC & TATL schedule:
Image
Image
Image
https://news.delta.com/delta-brings-bac ... ummer-2021


I wonder what the status of Detroit - Beijing is.


It'll return as soon as DOT and China agree to open up more mutual slots. PVG is priority.
 
User avatar
DLHAM
Posts: 528
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:10 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Aug 23, 2020 4:49 am

I had not expected Berlin to return. This is the third time now that Delta drops Berlin (1991-1997, 2005-2011, 2017-2020).
My Instagram Account: Instagram
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 617
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:10 pm

I think all A350s are active according to a.net so wondering how the 777's will be replaced? Is it by reshuffling 767s and A330s due to lesser demand? If so, the secondary European cities may not start for quite some time, funneling traffic through Amsterdam and Paris instead.
 
panamair
Posts: 4344
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:18 pm

Winter 2020-21 TATL frequencies and aircraft schedules updated this weekend:

JFK-LHR 764
JFK-DUB A333
JFK-AMS A339
JFK-BRU 764
JFK-CDG A333
JFK-FRA A333
JFK-ZRH A333
JFK-MXP A333
JFK-FCO A333
JFK-MAD A333
JFK-BCN A333
JFK-TLV A333
JFK-DSS 763ER
JFK-ACC 763ER

ATL-LHR A333
ATL-AMS A333
ATL-CDG A333
ATL-FRA A333
ATL-MUC A333
ATL-LOS A332
ATL-JNB A359

BOS-LHR 764
BOS-AMS A333
BOS-CDG 764

DTW-AMS A359
DTW-CDG A333

SEA-AMS A339
SEA-CDG A333
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 617
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:19 pm

Maybe Mumbai won't start because they rather go one on one with AA from SEA (?)
 
User avatar
DLHAM
Posts: 528
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:10 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:51 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
I think all A350s are active according to a.net so wondering how the 777's will be replaced? Is it by reshuffling 767s and A330s due to lesser demand? If so, the secondary European cities may not start for quite some time, funneling traffic through Amsterdam and Paris instead.


I think they will be replaced by nothing shortterm. Delta like all other airlines will emerge smaller from the crisis like the thread title says. Maybe some A350 flying on shorter routes will be replaced by new A330-900s and then the A350s go to replace some 777 flights. But some flights will surely never come back as well. Same with the 767-300ER, these dropped destinations are a conclusion of the retirement of parts of the 767-300ER fleet. If you reduce your fleet of course you will also have to reduce the schedule.
My Instagram Account: Instagram
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8271
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:04 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
I think all A350s are active according to a.net so wondering how the 777's will be replaced?


Maybe somebody will do a utilization schedule of the widebodies based on the current summer 2021 schedules. Lose 18 777/77L, lose a few (unknown number?) of 767s, add in some unknown number of 339s that DL can't defer.
 
TonyClifton
Posts: 266
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 3:19 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:22 pm

panamair wrote:
Winter 2020-21 TATL frequencies and aircraft schedules updated this weekend:

JFK-LHR 764
JFK-DUB A333
JFK-AMS A339
JFK-BRU 764
JFK-CDG A333
JFK-FRA A333
JFK-ZRH A333
JFK-MXP A333
JFK-FCO A333
JFK-MAD A333
JFK-BCN A333
JFK-TLV A333
JFK-DSS 763ER
JFK-ACC 763ER

ATL-LHR A333
ATL-AMS A333
ATL-CDG A333
ATL-FRA A333
ATL-MUC A333
ATL-LOS A332
ATL-JNB A359

BOS-LHR 764
BOS-AMS A333
BOS-CDG 764

DTW-AMS A359
DTW-CDG A333

SEA-AMS A339
SEA-CDG A333

A339 on JFK-AMS? Must be a first NY appearance for the Delta Neo at JFK.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8156
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:18 pm

All A350s are active but utilization is nowhere near full in the current environment.

Curious as to there are only 2 763 routes loaded this winter TATL but they have more frames than that active. Where else are they could to fly this winter?

Next summer the widebody fleet will be the following, at least on what has been announced:
- 18 77E/77L
- 7 763ER
+ x A339
+ x A359 (at least 2 that are doing flight test currently)
 
User avatar
klm617
Posts: 5106
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:29 pm

panamair wrote:
Winter 2020-21 TATL frequencies and aircraft schedules updated this weekend:

JFK-LHR 764
JFK-DUB A333
JFK-AMS A339
JFK-BRU 764
JFK-CDG A333
JFK-FRA A333
JFK-ZRH A333
JFK-MXP A333
JFK-FCO A333
JFK-MAD A333
JFK-BCN A333
JFK-TLV A333
JFK-DSS 763ER
JFK-ACC 763ER

ATL-LHR A333
ATL-AMS A333
ATL-CDG A333
ATL-FRA A333
ATL-MUC A333
ATL-LOS A332
ATL-JNB A359

BOS-LHR 764
BOS-AMS A333
BOS-CDG 764

DTW-AMS A359
DTW-CDG A333

SEA-AMS A339
SEA-CDG A333


It still amazes me that there is no DTW-LHR seems they'd want to connect on of the worlds premier destinations with their 2nd biggest hub. DTW is the only hub with no London service.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8156
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:46 pm

No, it’s not surprising at all the low demand and travel restriction environment through the winter.
You know these are not ordinary times.

Oct-Mar only ATL, JFK, BOS have LHR service.
In spring 2021, DTW, MSP come back along with another ATL flight.
 
TonyClifton
Posts: 266
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 3:19 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Aug 23, 2020 4:24 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
No, it’s not surprising at all the low demand and travel restriction environment through the winter.
You know these are not ordinary times.

Oct-Mar only ATL, JFK, BOS have LHR service.
In spring 2021, DTW, MSP come back along with another ATL flight.

Yep, and DTW-BOS/JFK-LHR adds under 200 miles. Right now it’s more cost effective to route whatever pax through those two cities. I highly doubt the pax volume is there for a dedicate flight this winter season, but DTW LHR will absolutely return.
 
User avatar
klm617
Posts: 5106
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Aug 23, 2020 5:19 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
No, it’s not surprising at all the low demand and travel restriction environment through the winter.
You know these are not ordinary times.

Oct-Mar only ATL, JFK, BOS have LHR service.
In spring 2021, DTW, MSP come back along with another ATL flight.


Yes but Detroit is still the number 2 hub in the Delta network and it has more feed than either JFK or BOS.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14572
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Aug 23, 2020 5:33 pm

NWAESC wrote:
rjbesikof wrote:
1) Why are they dropping KIX but not NGO?


IIRC, NGO traffic has always been driven in large part by the auto industry (Toyota's HQ is there). That might've made the difference here.


Yup. And NGO also has essentially zero TPAC competition.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
panamair
Posts: 4344
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:41 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Curious as to there are only 2 763 routes loaded this winter TATL but they have more frames than that active. Where else are they could to fly this winter?


Domestic I believe: JFK-LAX is the main one. So far DL has been operating 5-6 daily flights in this market (October so far has been cut from the pre-Covid usual 8-9x daily to 6x) so that will probably be about 4 frames minimum.
 
panamair
Posts: 4344
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Aug 23, 2020 7:55 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
I think all A350s are active according to a.net so wondering how the 777's will be replaced?


Maybe somebody will do a utilization schedule of the widebodies based on the current summer 2021 schedules. Lose 18 777/77L, lose a few (unknown number?) of 767s, add in some unknown number of 339s that DL can't defer.


DL has only announced their TATL and TPAC plans for S21 but nothing for LatAm yet so I am assuming what's currently published in the schedules:

A359 will be around 15-16 frames needed (also taking into account reduced frequencies in some markets); 13 in fleet now; 2 ready to be delivered
ATL-HND; ICN; JNB
LAX-HND; PVG; SYD
DTW-HND; ICN; PVG
MSP-HND

A339 will be around 9 frames needed: 5 in fleet currently
SEA-HND; ICN; PVG; PKX; AMS
ICN-MNL
JFK-AMS

A333 will be about 29 frames; fleet size is 31
JFK-AMS; FCO (2x); MXP; ATH (2x); TLV (2x); GRU
BOS-AMS
DTW-AMS (3x); CDG
ATL-AMS (3x); CDG (2x); FCO; GRU
SEA-CDG
MSP-AMS (2x); CDG
LAX-CDG

A332 will be about 7-8 frames; this one is kind of a mess in terms of the routes being all over the place for now. Fleet size is 11
JFK-NCE; LOS
ATL-LOS
DTW-NGO
MSP-ICN
PDX-AMS; HND

764 will be around 18 frames: fleet size is 21
JFK-LHR (2x); BRU; FRA; ZRH; CDG (2x)
ATL-LHR (2x); FRA; MUC; SCL
DTW-LHR; FRA
MSP-LHR
BOS-LHR; CDG

763ER will be around 23 frames (international only, not including JFK-LAX yet):
JFK-LIS; EDI; KEF; MAD; BCN; DUB; VCE; DSS; ACC
ATL-DUB; MAD; BCN; STR; EZE; GIG; LIM
SLC-AMS; CDG
BOS-DUB
RDU-CDG
CVG-CDG
HNL-HND
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26253
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:45 pm

Lootess wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
DL released its updated summer & winter TPAC & TATL schedule:
Image
Image
Image
https://news.delta.com/delta-brings-bac ... ummer-2021


I wonder what the status of Detroit - Beijing is.


It'll return as soon as DOT and China agree to open up more mutual slots. PVG is priority.


Delta has the authority to fly DTWPEK. You are confusing route authorities with the current limited allowance of U.s.-China flights which does not apply to summer 2021. Detroit-Beijing has been discontinued for the time being.
a.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 20286
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:12 pm

With Delta coming out a smaller carrier, is there any news on Delta Tech Ops? For example, have they announced any change in what engines they support? Slide 10 of the following was the latest I saw, with some of the "future engines" now supported. (Note, this is an old link. I'm not sure if 2017 or 2018):
https://www.iata.org/contentassets/f03b ... erview.pdf

I'd imagine the MD-90 support would go away. I would think the MD-88 would also, but I am less certain that has been decided as their might be outside contracts I am unaware of. I wouldn't imagine DL would keep the support unless profitable.

It would be interesting to know how Delta TechOps changes.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 617
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:43 pm

panamair wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
I think all A350s are active according to a.net so wondering how the 777's will be replaced?


Maybe somebody will do a utilization schedule of the widebodies based on the current summer 2021 schedules. Lose 18 777/77L, lose a few (unknown number?) of 767s, add in some unknown number of 339s that DL can't defer.


DL has only announced their TATL and TPAC plans for S21 but nothing for LatAm yet so I am assuming what's currently published in the schedules:

A359 will be around 15-16 frames needed (also taking into account reduced frequencies in some markets); 13 in fleet now; 2 ready to be delivered
ATL-HND; ICN; JNB
LAX-HND; PVG; SYD
DTW-HND; ICN; PVG
MSP-HND

A339 will be around 9 frames needed: 5 in fleet currently
SEA-HND; ICN; PVG; PKX; AMS
ICN-MNL
JFK-AMS

A333 will be about 29 frames; fleet size is 31
JFK-AMS; FCO (2x); MXP; ATH (2x); TLV (2x); GRU
BOS-AMS
DTW-AMS (3x); CDG
ATL-AMS (3x); CDG (2x); FCO; GRU
SEA-CDG
MSP-AMS (2x); CDG
LAX-CDG

A332 will be about 7-8 frames; this one is kind of a mess in terms of the routes being all over the place for now. Fleet size is 11
JFK-NCE; LOS
ATL-LOS
DTW-NGO
MSP-ICN
PDX-AMS; HND

764 will be around 18 frames: fleet size is 21
JFK-LHR (2x); BRU; FRA; ZRH; CDG (2x)
ATL-LHR (2x); FRA; MUC; SCL
DTW-LHR; FRA
MSP-LHR
BOS-LHR; CDG

763ER will be around 23 frames (international only, not including JFK-LAX yet):
JFK-LIS; EDI; KEF; MAD; BCN; DUB; VCE; DSS; ACC
ATL-DUB; MAD; BCN; STR; EZE; GIG; LIM
SLC-AMS; CDG
BOS-DUB
RDU-CDG
CVG-CDG
HNL-HND



Interesting. Thanks. Smart move to retire the 777 during this time.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos