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flymco753
Posts: 3385
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:57 pm

NWAESC wrote:
nwadeicer wrote:
Or ride it out for 90 days which will take you to July, where you get two months back to normal before October 1st hits and the airlines don't have to honor the bailout requirements of no furloughs.


I think a lot of people don't fully grasp what's looming ahead.
I'm not too worried about the core hubs, but smaller stations I don't feel will have it so easy.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
flflyer
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 2:29 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:16 pm

SESGDL wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
flyboy80 wrote:
Could MSP, BOS, JFK/LGA, & SLC not theoretically do everything that DTW does today...?


Yes. I never could figure out having two hubs (MSP and DTW) so close together. No other airline does that.


Umm... AA: DCA, PHL, JFK, BOS. CLT and PHL are also close together. UA: LAX, SFO. AS: SEA, PDX. The list goes on.

Jeremy



EWR-IAD
 
tphuang
Posts: 4613
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:19 pm

umichman wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
onwFan wrote:
Seems like DL has cut many non-hub destinations from BOS for the month of April - SFO, ORD, DCA, EWR, LAS, AUS, MKE, ORF, etc. with most other routes reduced to once daily.


I think it is clear that many routes are going to be dropped altogether for April....even SAN-LAX & DFW/IAH-JFK are dropped for April, RDU/CVG are down to around 25 flights/day, ATL-MCO is down to 5 flights/day e.t.c

I think moving forward the important piece to watch is what routes will be dropped for the long-term, the consensus has changed rapidly in the past week or so, and now most believe this will be a longer term recovery than initially assumed.

So far, it appears DL is more willing to make cuts from BOS, CVG, & RDU, as opposed to SEA & LAX & that may mean that strategy carriers forward through the rest of the year & maybe into 2021


RDU and CVG seem to be taking it a lot harder than BOS. BOS still has flights to BNA, MCI, IND, PIT, PHL, JAX, CMH, and CLE in April. These are all cities that CVG or RDU will no longer have flights to in April (plus many others). They even still have BOS flights to BUF, RIC, and CHS in April which is pretty amazing to me.

BOS started out with a lot more flights. BOS is down to around 40 from 140+. RDU is from 80+ down to 25. The cuts are about the same.
 
flflyer
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 2:29 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:37 pm

Just for kicks, what is UA, AA CEO comp cuts? What's Gary doing at WN?
 
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NWAESC
Posts: 1381
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:55 pm

flymco753 wrote:
I think a lot of people don't fully grasp what's looming ahead.
I'm not too worried about the core hubs, but smaller stations I don't feel will have it so easy.[/quote]

I'm in one. I will be stunned if I'm still on the property come Halloween...
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
nwadeicer
Posts: 283
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:17 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:39 pm

NWAESC wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
I think a lot of people don't fully grasp what's looming ahead.
I'm not too worried about the core hubs, but smaller stations I don't feel will have it so easy.


I'm in one. I will be stunned if I'm still on the property come Halloween...[/quote]

This has the feeling of 2006 all over again. I was in a smaller station and was booted when NWA outsourced it. Luckly I could hold MSP, however Delta does not have the same type of "bumping rights" like NWA had. What are they going to let you do if you get ousted from your station? Make you go to ATL if you want to stay employed? No thank you... I agree with you that unfortunately there will be stations either outright closed up or outsourced. Look at FNT for example, checking their schedule they have 6 flights a day, all to and from ATL. That station is high seniority, if i'm Delta i'm looking at FNT and saying we're paying 20-30 people on average 32.00 an hour to work maybe a flight and a half per shift. That station will have a bullseye on it.
I miss the Red Tail
 
flyboy80
Posts: 2066
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:43 pm

I still feel theres a huge lack of consensus on where Delta, and all airlines, will be medium term- Fall/Winter 2020. Down 70%, 50% then? Incredibly hard to tell how fast the economy can rebuild and demand can recover while also not knowing how much pause is left due to the virus. Theres such an emphasis on parking the hundreds of aircraft, but aren't the vast majority of them parked short term, in the sense of a holiday weekend, but en masse? It's not like they are sending 600 aircraft to the desert to permanently seal/retire/scrap them? Another angle to the Delta network question is this: say there are some more knowns, and capacity stays go to 50% yoy for winter and into spring next year; even with the aid- won't one of the big 4 have to close its doors? I cant imagine a world without even one of these brands flying around and how one, such as AA, ceases and breaks up is a complicated assessment...but would certainly change the networks of the remaining players, including the smaller companies.
 
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flymco753
Posts: 3385
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:11 pm

nwadeicer wrote:
NWAESC wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
I think a lot of people don't fully grasp what's looming ahead.
I'm not too worried about the core hubs, but smaller stations I don't feel will have it so easy.


I'm in one. I will be stunned if I'm still on the property come Halloween...


This has the feeling of 2006 all over again. I was in a smaller station and was booted when NWA outsourced it. Luckly I could hold MSP, however Delta does not have the same type of "bumping rights" like NWA had. What are they going to let you do if you get ousted from your station? Make you go to ATL if you want to stay employed? No thank you... I agree with you that unfortunately there will be stations either outright closed up or outsourced. Look at FNT for example, checking their schedule they have 6 flights a day, all to and from ATL. That station is high seniority, if i'm Delta i'm looking at FNT and saying we're paying 20-30 people on average 32.00 an hour to work maybe a flight and a half per shift. That station will have a bullseye on it.[/quote]Because of FNT's seniority they're going to eat up DTW slots before anywhere else. A lot of BW agents in FNT have already contemplated where they'd go if they were shut down so most likely if they allow transfers to core hubs only, they'd eat up DTW spots like CVG did last time.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1935
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:12 pm

Delta doesn’t have to let them go where an agent wants too, they are non-union employees at will.
 
jordanh
Posts: 306
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:56 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:44 pm

nwadeicer wrote:
Actually, Ed is taking a 100% cut of his salary, for 6 months. Let's break it down a little. Now granted this was last years package however i'm sure it is close to this years.
Base pay: 891,667
Bonus+non equity incentive comp: 2,277,090
Total cash comp for the year-- 3,168,75
Stock award comp: 7,705,118
Option award value: 3,795,014
Total equity: 11,500,132
Total other: 313,559
Total compensation for 2019: 14,982,448
Ed is taking a cut of approximately 445,833 out of a combined 14,982,448, Basically the change you find underneath the seat of your car. Yet the employees of Delta have been "asked" heh heh, to take a pay cut of 25% of their pay for 3 months. Now you can, of course, take a 30 day Leave Of Absence and that satisfies the 90 day 25% pay cut. Or ride it out for 90 days which will take you to July, where you get two months back to normal before October 1st hits and the airlines don't have to honor the bailout requirements of no furloughs. Have a great day!


How can you think, "this was last years package however i'm sure it is close to this years."? Weren't all those incentives based on the airline's year-end profit? Do you really think they will have that this year? And those stock options... do you think stock options now are as valuable as they were last year? Maybe you haven't looked at any stock prices lately.

Boof02671 wrote:
Delta doesn’t have to let them go where an agent wants too, they are non-union employees at will.



If I recall correctly, Delta was the only major airline that didn't fire anybody after 9-11 (remember hearing about AA's employees receiving their termination notices on Christmas eve? Such a surprise from Santa!), because they offered very generous "packages" to employees who wanted to retire earlier. I know AA invoked the force majeure provision to rid themselves of union members; what good did the union do then? If history is right, Delta takes better care of its employees than any union does for theirs.

I don't have a dog in this flight, but I am very happy to have Delta as our new partner, and I think the bashing some people are giving them here is mostly jealously or sour grapes. If you do have a real gripe, please get your facts straight first.
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1935
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:48 pm

AA didn’t invoke force majuere, NW and US did.
 
deltairlines
Posts: 6974
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:14 pm

MD-90s are gone end of day April 1. There will still be ~132 daily MD-88 flights in the new schedule. They are ATL to:

BDL (4)
BNA (5)
CHS (5)
CMH (4)
DAB (3)
GRR (3)
HOU (3)
IND (4)
MCI (4)
MEM (5)
OMA (3)
ORF (4)
PHL (5)
PIT (4)
RDU (5)
RIC (4)
SAT (4)
SRQ (4)
STL (4)

Couple other things I noticed with the new April schedule:

- No more domestic widebody flights. JFK-LAX/SFO are all now 75W; Hawaii is all 757-200.
- 757-300s are all parked for April

Breakdown of US/Canada departures by fleet type (all numbers are approximate but should be close):
A220 - 88
A319 - 176
A320 - 98
A321 - 256
717 - 324
737-700 - 20
737-800 - 162
737-900 - 258
757-200 Domestic - 78
757-200 International Config - 30
MD-88 - 132
CRJ-200 - 348
CRJ-700 - 12
CRJ-900 - 418
E-170 - 0
E-175 - 260
E-175W - 156

I'll play around this afternoon and try to find the last MD-90 flights.
 
dlflynhayn
Posts: 302
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:55 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:15 pm

By listening to the Finance guys on the stock market today they all said DL will be fine because of the way the company is operated,All airlines will have to deal with obstacles ahead but mentioned AA as the one to look out for to be on a downward spiral quicker than others if this virus keeps up.When this is all over who knows maybe only two of the BIG 3 remain.
 
flyboy80
Posts: 2066
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:21 pm

Maybe it will soon (again) be the "Big Six" AS, AA, DL, WN, UA, B6 with UA, DL, AA shrinking considerably while B6 and AS maybe have opportunities in this.
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:23 pm

dlflynhayn wrote:
By listening to the Finance guys on the stock market today they all said DL will be fine because of the way the company is operated,All airlines will have to deal with obstacles ahead but mentioned AA as the one to look out for to be on a downward spiral quicker than others if this virus keeps up.When this is all over who knows maybe only two of the BIG 3 remain.

If one of the big 3 airlines goes bankrupt into Chapter 11, they all will eventually in the following 10 years. You can't have one of the airlines going out and restructuring/lowering their entire cost structure after this big of a crisis and expect the other two to compete effectively as before. It's too much of an advantage for one carrier to restructure like that.

Just like after 9/11, Delta & NW went bankrupt and restructured, US Airways did, United did, and AA tried not to but eventually had to since the others had lowered their cost structures. Careful what Delta fans wish for...
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 5766
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:25 pm

NWAESC wrote:
nwadeicer wrote:
Or ride it out for 90 days which will take you to July, where you get two months back to normal before October 1st hits and the airlines don't have to honor the bailout requirements of no furloughs.


I think a lot of people don't fully grasp what's looming ahead.



100 percent correct

We are headed for a major recession...the likes of which most people alive today never saw

Return to normal will reflect that
 
bigred10k
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:35 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:26 pm

Delta's most recent cuts have absolutely decimated CVG. If DL emerges as a smaller carrier and doesn't bring back these flights, one wonders about the overall viability of the CVG airport. Just too much in lost gate fees if it is relegated to a spoke in Delta's network.
 
MD8090orDRIVE
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:01 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:33 pm

deltairlines wrote:
MD-90s are gone end of day April 1. There will still be ~132 daily MD-88 flights in the new schedule. They are ATL to:

BDL (4)
BNA (5)
CHS (5)
CMH (4)
DAB (3)
GRR (3)
HOU (3)
IND (4)
MCI (4)
MEM (5)
OMA (3)
ORF (4)
PHL (5)
PIT (4)
RDU (5)
RIC (4)
SAT (4)
SRQ (4)
STL (4)

Couple other things I noticed with the new April schedule:

- No more domestic widebody flights. JFK-LAX/SFO are all now 75W; Hawaii is all 757-200.
- 757-300s are all parked for April

Breakdown of US/Canada departures by fleet type (all numbers are approximate but should be close):
A220 - 88
A319 - 176
A320 - 98
A321 - 256
717 - 324
737-700 - 20
737-800 - 162
737-900 - 258
757-200 Domestic - 78
757-200 International Config - 30
MD-88 - 132
CRJ-200 - 348
CRJ-700 - 12
CRJ-900 - 418
E-170 - 0
E-175 - 260
E-175W - 156

I'll play around this afternoon and try to find the last MD-90 flights.


My May 15th flight 2534 from ATL to RDU is still showing an MD-90 and I pray it stays that way.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2676
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:38 pm

flflyer wrote:
Just for kicks, what is UA, AA CEO comp cuts? What's Gary doing at WN?


Here at UA Munoz and Kirby have both given up their salary, and senior management has seen their pay reduced 40% - 50%, mid and low level management employees have had their pay reduced 20% - 25%.
 
Chriswebb775
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:37 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:01 pm

For a big airline delta .seems to be taking care of us ( the people who work there) yes it gets boring sometimes but I thank them for trying to keep us working ! unlike other airlines that are laying everyone off. I know our station mentality is it will get better again and when it does we will be ready .
9207DA
 
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NWAESC
Posts: 1381
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:10 pm

nwadeicer wrote:
This has the feeling of 2006 all over again. I was in a smaller station and was booted when NWA outsourced it. Luckly I could hold MSP, however Delta does not have the same type of "bumping rights" like NWA had. What are they going to let you do if you get ousted from your station? Make you go to ATL if you want to stay employed? No thank you... I agree with you that unfortunately there will be stations either outright closed up or outsourced. Look at FNT for example, checking their schedule they have 6 flights a day, all to and from ATL. That station is high seniority, if i'm Delta i'm looking at FNT and saying we're paying 20-30 people on average 32.00 an hour to work maybe a flight and a half per shift. That station will have a bullseye on it.


It’s either going to be like 2006, or closer to when MEM wound down, where people could go to any open spot on the system, and stay FT even if the spot was an RR one. I’m hoping for the latter, with a “good” early out package to help as well. That said, DL does have a relatively clear cut RIF policy. It’s worth a read. Hope we don’t have to use it...
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:11 pm

Chriswebb775 wrote:
For a big airline delta .seems to be taking care of us ( the people who work there) yes it gets boring sometimes but I thank them for trying to keep us working ! unlike other airlines that are laying everyone off. I know our station mentality is it will get better again and when it does we will be ready .


I sincerely hope you’re right!
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
nwadeicer
Posts: 283
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:17 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:15 pm

NWAESC wrote:
nwadeicer wrote:
This has the feeling of 2006 all over again. I was in a smaller station and was booted when NWA outsourced it. Luckly I could hold MSP, however Delta does not have the same type of "bumping rights" like NWA had. What are they going to let you do if you get ousted from your station? Make you go to ATL if you want to stay employed? No thank you... I agree with you that unfortunately there will be stations either outright closed up or outsourced. Look at FNT for example, checking their schedule they have 6 flights a day, all to and from ATL. That station is high seniority, if i'm Delta i'm looking at FNT and saying we're paying 20-30 people on average 32.00 an hour to work maybe a flight and a half per shift. That station will have a bullseye on it.


It’s either going to be like 2006, or closer to when MEM wound down, where people could go to any open spot on the system, and stay FT even if the spot was an RR one. I’m hoping for the latter, with a “good” early out package to help as well. That said, DL does have a relatively clear cut RIF policy. It’s worth a read. Hope we don’t have to use it...


Thanks, i'll give it a read. I would love for them to package up an early out option. Make it financially enticing though, if you want to oust the topped out folks like me, make it worthwhile and i'm gone.
I miss the Red Tail
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:31 pm

Chriswebb775 wrote:
For a big airline delta .seems to be taking care of us ( the people who work there) yes it gets boring sometimes but I thank them for trying to keep us working ! unlike other airlines that are laying everyone off. I know our station mentality is it will get better again and when it does we will be ready .

Who are the "other airlines that are laying everyone off" in the US? Delta seems to be the only carrier unilaterally cutting salaries by 25% for everyone right after they found out they didn't have to given the government bailout. https://www.ajc.com/blog/airport/more-t ... N8DYvsnxH/
 
Boof02671
Posts: 1935
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:15 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:54 pm

Chriswebb775 wrote:
For a big airline delta .seems to be taking care of us ( the people who work there) yes it gets boring sometimes but I thank them for trying to keep us working ! unlike other airlines that are laying everyone off. I know our station mentality is it will get better again and when it does we will be ready .

UA, AA nor WN has laid anyone off nor have they reduced hours for ground staff, unlike Delta who is cutting hours.
 
onwFan
Topic Author
Posts: 339
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:02 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:29 pm

bigred10k wrote:
Delta's most recent cuts have absolutely decimated CVG. If DL emerges as a smaller carrier and doesn't bring back these flights, one wonders about the overall viability of the CVG airport. Just too much in lost gate fees if it is relegated to a spoke in Delta's network.

At least in terms of destinations, WN will gladly backfill many of those routes. Most routes out of CVG which DL is likely to cut are big WN focus cities, like MCI, STL, PHX, LAS, DEN and Florida.
 
deltairlines
Posts: 6974
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 4:47 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:04 pm

MD8090orDRIVE wrote:
deltairlines wrote:
MD-90s are gone end of day April 1. There will still be ~132 daily MD-88 flights in the new schedule. They are ATL to:

BDL (4)
BNA (5)
CHS (5)
CMH (4)
DAB (3)
GRR (3)
HOU (3)
IND (4)
MCI (4)
MEM (5)
OMA (3)
ORF (4)
PHL (5)
PIT (4)
RDU (5)
RIC (4)
SAT (4)
SRQ (4)
STL (4)

Couple other things I noticed with the new April schedule:

- No more domestic widebody flights. JFK-LAX/SFO are all now 75W; Hawaii is all 757-200.
- 757-300s are all parked for April

Breakdown of US/Canada departures by fleet type (all numbers are approximate but should be close):
A220 - 88
A319 - 176
A320 - 98
A321 - 256
717 - 324
737-700 - 20
737-800 - 162
737-900 - 258
757-200 Domestic - 78
757-200 International Config - 30
MD-88 - 132
CRJ-200 - 348
CRJ-700 - 12
CRJ-900 - 418
E-170 - 0
E-175 - 260
E-175W - 156

I'll play around this afternoon and try to find the last MD-90 flights.


My May 15th flight 2534 from ATL to RDU is still showing an MD-90 and I pray it stays that way.


You will not be on an MD-90. They are all done flying on Wednesday.

May schedules have yet to be loaded. April got in over the weekend and that was a big enough load for the system. May will probably come next weekend, especially given that Easter weekend is a three day weekend for Delta Corporate employees.

The best hope for you is that ATL-RDU in April is going to be all MD-88 (5 times daily) for the April schedule. Given the amount of changes that need to be made, and one of the trends I've seen in this schedule change is that it's maybe 1 or 2 fleet types flying a certain route, I would expect that ATL-RDU will likely stay on the -88 for May.
 
nwadeicer
Posts: 283
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:17 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:24 pm

jordanh wrote:
nwadeicer wrote:
Actually, Ed is taking a 100% cut of his salary, for 6 months. Let's break it down a little. Now granted this was last years package however i'm sure it is close to this years.
Base pay: 891,667
Bonus+non equity incentive comp: 2,277,090
Total cash comp for the year-- 3,168,75
Stock award comp: 7,705,118
Option award value: 3,795,014
Total equity: 11,500,132
Total other: 313,559
Total compensation for 2019: 14,982,448
Ed is taking a cut of approximately 445,833 out of a combined 14,982,448, Basically the change you find underneath the seat of your car. Yet the employees of Delta have been "asked" heh heh, to take a pay cut of 25% of their pay for 3 months. Now you can, of course, take a 30 day Leave Of Absence and that satisfies the 90 day 25% pay cut. Or ride it out for 90 days which will take you to July, where you get two months back to normal before October 1st hits and the airlines don't have to honor the bailout requirements of no furloughs. Have a great day!


How can you think, "this was last years package however i'm sure it is close to this years."? Weren't all those incentives based on the airline's year-end profit? Do you really think they will have that this year? And those stock options... do you think stock options now are as valuable as they were last year? Maybe you haven't looked at any stock prices lately.

Boof02671 wrote:
Delta doesn’t have to let them go where an agent wants too, they are non-union employees at will.



If I recall correctly, Delta was the only major airline that didn't fire anybody after 9-11 (remember hearing about AA's employees receiving their termination notices on Christmas eve? Such a surprise from Santa!), because they offered very generous "packages" to employees who wanted to retire earlier. I know AA invoked the force majeure provision to rid themselves of union members; what good did the union do then? If history is right, Delta takes better care of its employees than any union does for theirs.

I don't have a dog in this flight, but I am very happy to have Delta as our new partner, and I think the bashing some people are giving them here is mostly jealously or sour grapes. If you do have a real gripe, please get your facts straight first.


True, the stock market is taking a dump right now. Knock of a couple million, funny reading that, knock off "a couple million" from his yearly compensation package. Trust me, Ed is not hurting for cash and is not living paycheck to paycheck
Since you don't have a "dog in this fight" i'll share some of the 20 some odd years that i've had a dog in this fight. I didn't get to enjoy the 7.5 years with Delta (look it up) However I did get to experience a lengthy layoff post 9/11, had to up and relocate as NWA outsourced my station, heck NWA wanted to outsource every single station with the exception of MSP, MEM and DTW. The IAM fought this and retained some stations. Took a 20% pay cut when NWA filed and now i'm taking another "temporary" 20-25% pay cut. Those same people running Delta now were with NWA at that time.
Now don't get me wrong, I love the job I do, I get paid very well to do my job. I get quite a bit of time off and have used that time to see the world, many times over. However i'm not blinded by any "love" for this airline. This is a business, they're in it to make money, lot's of it. Don't think for one minute that they wouldn't replace us with outsourced personnel if they thought they could get away with it. The only thing that is preventing them from stripping away more and more full time positions is that threat of a union. If you were to take a look at our internal job posting area the past few years you would see that 80-90% of ramp and counter positions that are available are ready reserve or seasonal ready reserve positions. Granted there are the occasional full time spots available in LA, NYC, SFO. Places where your dollar goes a long way..
I miss the Red Tail
 
Chriswebb775
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:37 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:31 pm

Boof02671 wrote:
Chriswebb775 wrote:
For a big airline delta .seems to be taking care of us ( the people who work there) yes it gets boring sometimes but I thank them for trying to keep us working ! unlike other airlines that are laying everyone off. I know our station mentality is it will get better again and when it does we will be ready .

UA, AA nor WN has laid anyone off nor have they reduced hours for ground staff, unlike Delta who is cutting hours.

Cutting hours is better then not having a job at all don't you think ? We have smaller much much lighter flights and I would rather have my hours reduced then not to have a job at all .we should be lucky we all get to keep our jobs not alot of people in the world can say that right now. Also I have talked to other people at other airlines and yes if they can not save cost from letting people do follow they intended to lay off people I know from other airlines are saying this is what they here from there local managment.
9207DA
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 261
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:44 pm

Chriswebb775 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
Chriswebb775 wrote:
For a big airline delta .seems to be taking care of us ( the people who work there) yes it gets boring sometimes but I thank them for trying to keep us working ! unlike other airlines that are laying everyone off. I know our station mentality is it will get better again and when it does we will be ready .

UA, AA nor WN has laid anyone off nor have they reduced hours for ground staff, unlike Delta who is cutting hours.

Cutting hours is better then not having a job at all don't you think ? We have smaller much much lighter flights and I would rather have my hours reduced then not to have a job at all .we should be lucky we all get to keep our jobs not alot of people in the world can say that right now. Also I have talked to other people at other airlines and yes if they can not save cost from letting people do follow they intended to lay off people I know from other airlines are saying this is what they here from there local managment.


In six months, United and Delta will be over staffed and will have to contemplate laying people off. The only difference is that, so far, United didn’t unilaterally lop 25% off their people’s salaries right after the bailout.
https://onemileatatime.com/united-airlines-layoffs/
 
B757Forever
Posts: 864
Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 3:23 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:12 pm

JAMBOJET wrote:
Chriswebb775 wrote:
Boof02671 wrote:
UA, AA nor WN has laid anyone off nor have they reduced hours for ground staff, unlike Delta who is cutting hours.

Cutting hours is better then not having a job at all don't you think ? We have smaller much much lighter flights and I would rather have my hours reduced then not to have a job at all .we should be lucky we all get to keep our jobs not alot of people in the world can say that right now. Also I have talked to other people at other airlines and yes if they can not save cost from letting people do follow they intended to lay off people I know from other airlines are saying this is what they here from there local managment.


In six months, United and Delta will be over staffed and will have to contemplate laying people off. The only difference is that, so far, United didn’t unilaterally lop 25% off their people’s salaries right after the bailout.
https://onemileatatime.com/united-airlines-layoffs/


"The only difference is that, so far, United didn’t unilaterally lop 25% off their people’s salaries right after the bailout" is an inaccurate statement. The 25% reduction in work hours was announced on March 20th, the stimulus was signed into law on the 27th. From the beginning of the Covid-19 meltdown, Ed Bastian had stated Delta would not wait for congress to act and that DL would put self-help plans in place, with or without government assistance. To claim this was done after the passing of the Stimulus is not accurate.
The Rolls Royce Dart. Noise = Shaft Horsepower.
 
JAMBOJET
Posts: 261
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:16 pm

B757Forever wrote:
JAMBOJET wrote:
Chriswebb775 wrote:
Cutting hours is better then not having a job at all don't you think ? We have smaller much much lighter flights and I would rather have my hours reduced then not to have a job at all .we should be lucky we all get to keep our jobs not alot of people in the world can say that right now. Also I have talked to other people at other airlines and yes if they can not save cost from letting people do follow they intended to lay off people I know from other airlines are saying this is what they here from there local managment.


In six months, United and Delta will be over staffed and will have to contemplate laying people off. The only difference is that, so far, United didn’t unilaterally lop 25% off their people’s salaries right after the bailout.
https://onemileatatime.com/united-airlines-layoffs/


"The only difference is that, so far, United didn’t unilaterally lop 25% off their people’s salaries right after the bailout" is an inaccurate statement. The 25% reduction in work hours was announced on March 20th, the stimulus was signed into law on the 27th. From the beginning of the Covid-19 meltdown, Ed Bastian had stated Delta would not wait for congress to act and that DL would put self-help plans in place, with or without government assistance. To claim this was done after the passing of the Stimulus is not accurate.

I doubt Delta was so irrelevant in DC lobbying as to have no idea what was about to be passed.
And let’s be real. What kind of company cuts 25% of salary of a guy making $20/hr loading bags preemptively when there’s KNOWN legislation moving forward in DC and none of your competitors have done the same?
If Ed wants to sacrifice, he’d announce a 25% cut of his total compensation of what it would otherwise be. He hasn’t.
 
Boof02671
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:22 pm

And Delta top out is $33 and change so it’s around $1,200 pay cut a month and I doubt they would qualify for unemployment for the cut in hours and pay.
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:43 pm

Chriswebb775 wrote:
Cutting hours is better then not having a job at all don't you think ?.


There seems to be three different schools of HR approaches on this matter:

UA: Layoffs are necessary despite government aid.

DL: Paycuts across the board despite government aid.

AA: Government aid is designed to keep people employed during this time (no action?).

Who is right? Conventional MBA programs teach its better to let go of deadweight (low performers) during a crisis like this than an across-the-board salary cut and risk losing high-performers, so DL is going against the grain here, but perhaps its taking this risk to contradict UA and provide positive PR opportunities after the crisis concludes, and also betting the bonuses still have its employees on its side.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:18 am

The cuts at DL are not only to conserve cash, but also to incentivize people to take leaves. If you take a week off a month (or a 30+ days total leave) you work your full hours the rest of this 90 period. There must be some appeal, given that over 21000 people across the company have taken some form of voluntary leave.

Would it have been better to just furlough? Maybe, maybe not. We could debate that for years. The work has certainly dried up. I guarantee NW would’ve invoked Force Majeure and whacked 2/3’s of us already.

DL is framing it as a “we’re all in this together” kind of deal. I’m paraphrasing, but it was something like “we were all in it during the highs, and we’re all in it for the lows.” Some people are all in, and some sprained their eyes rolling them. YMMV. We’ll find out if it’s truly a good news story or not after 9/30.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
jayunited
Posts: 2676
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:29 am

phatfarmlines wrote:
Chriswebb775 wrote:
Cutting hours is better then not having a job at all don't you think ?.


There seems to be three different schools of HR approaches on this matter:

UA: Layoffs are necessary despite government aid.

DL: Paycuts across the board despite government aid.

AA: Government aid is designed to keep people employed during this time (no action?).

Who is right? Conventional MBA programs teach its better to let go of deadweight (low performers) during a crisis like this than an across-the-board salary cut and risk losing high-performers, so DL is going against the grain here, but perhaps its taking this risk to contradict UA and provide positive PR opportunities after the crisis concludes, and also betting the bonuses still have its employees on its side.


United has not provided a single piece of positive PR spin on this at all. UA is being up front with their employees from now through September 30, 2020 no layoffs this includes management employees although all management employees depending on your level have seen our pay cut either 20%, 25%, 40% or 50%. Union represented employees will not see any pay cuts or forced reduction in hours per the bailout agreement. In fact UA has taken this a step futher and in the NY and NJ area UA is paying ground staff to stay home an extra day a program UA may expand to all domestic ground staff if necessary in order to keep people safe. What UA has told employees is furloughs and layoffs could be necessary after September 30th.

In order for an airline to qualify for the bailout they must agree to protect non-management hourly workers jobs and PAY. This is what UA is doing DL on the other hand has "asked" the frontline ground staff to take a pay cut while at the same time participating in the bailout. I asked this question earlier no DL employee answered so I'll ask it again: Before COVID-19 did DL classify their entire non-union front line ground staff as management employees or were you just consider at will only. Because the only way DL is able to get away with "asking" their ground staff to take a pay cut is if they classify them as management employees do to the fact that all management employees are exempt from the agreement the airlines came to with the Trump Administration. Hence the reason UA cut all management employees pay but left everyone else alone.
If DL's ground staff were not considered or classified as management prior to COVID-19 then DL should not "ask" them to take a 25% pay cut. That bailout money is supposed to used to support and protect non-management employees pay.

Another thing are DL's pay cuts truly across the board? DL pilots and dispatchers are union employees DL can not just cut their pay without first negotiation and coming to an agreement with those unions. Now that DL has been bailout by the tax payer it will be interesting to see if DL pilots and dispatchers join their non-union coworkers in taking a pay cut or if they decided otherwise.

One last thing do you really think UA employees are the only ones facing furloughs and layoff? If DL is leading their employees to believe that no layoffs are coming while at the same time say they will emerge a smaller carrier I wonder which airline is doing the true PR spin.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:54 am

DL frontline employees are not considered management. We are all classified as “scale” employees (as in on a payscale). Managers at all levels are considered “merit” employees, as their pay is based on certain bandwidths depending on what level they are currently working at.

DL has definitely been trying to rally the troops, but they’re also being pretty upfront about not ruling furloughs out.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
jordanh
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:09 am

jayunited wrote:
UA is being up front with their employees from now through September 30, 2020 no layoffs this includes management employees although all management employees depending on your level have seen our pay cut either 20%, 25%, 40% or 50%. Union represented employees will not see any pay cuts or forced reduction in hours per the bailout agreement. In fact UA has taken this a step futher and in the NY and NJ area UA is paying ground staff to stay home an extra day a program UA may expand to all domestic ground staff if necessary in order to keep people safe. What UA has told employees is furloughs and layoffs could be necessary after September 30th.


If I read this correctly, United is paying every employee below management level their full salaries, for the next six months, even though they are flying 20% or 25% of their schedule, and their loads (again, if I am reading the other topics correctly) are around 20% to 30%? That would mean they are actually bringing in less than 10% of their usual income. How is that even financially feasible? What is their total monthly income vs. payroll?

It would seem that they, rather than AA, might turn out to be the first candidate for bankruptcy.


jayunited wrote:
If DL is leading their employees to believe that no layoffs are coming while at the same time say they will emerge a smaller carrier I wonder which airline is doing the true PR spin.


United says the same thing:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1443605
 
United1
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Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:10 am

jordanh wrote:

If I read this correctly, United is paying every employee below management level their full salaries, for the next six months, even though they are flying 20% or 25% of their schedule, and their loads (again, if I am reading the other topics correctly) are around 20% to 30%? That would mean they are actually bringing in less than 10% of their usual income. How is that even financially feasible? What is their total monthly income vs. payroll?



The airline bailout Congress just agreed on basically subsidized all US airlines payroll for the next 6 months (through September 31st.). Which is why ALL of the US carriers should be able to pay all of their non management employees in full up until that point. That money was given to the airlines as a grant with some conditions attached....ie limiting executive pay, no layoffs until September 31st, no stock buybacks for the next 18 months or so...ect.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
B757Forever
Posts: 864
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:15 am

United1 wrote:
jordanh wrote:

If I read this correctly, United is paying every employee below management level their full salaries, for the next six months, even though they are flying 20% or 25% of their schedule, and their loads (again, if I am reading the other topics correctly) are around 20% to 30%? That would mean they are actually bringing in less than 10% of their usual income. How is that even financially feasible? What is their total monthly income vs. payroll?



The airline bailout Congress just agreed on basically subsidized all US airlines payroll for the next 6 months (through September 31st.). Which is why ALL of the US carriers should be able to pay all of their non management employees in full up until that point. That money was given to the airlines as a grant with some conditions attached....ie limiting executive pay, no layoffs until September 31st, no stock buybacks for the next 18 months or so...ect.


The reality of the situation for all carriers is that the passenger traffic has fallen off a cliff. April, May and June are a bloodbath for the carriers. July and August have a very small uptick in tickets sold. Delta is planning for and preparing for the time when the stimulus money runs out, which it will. Ed Bastian has been clear that DL cannot depend on extended bailouts and that DL must do everything in their power to self-help to survive this unprecedented downturn. The taxpayers and congress have little patience, especially for companies who appear to be approaching this situation without seriousness. This is the worst event the airline industry has ever seen. Sadly, it will not end well for many.
The Rolls Royce Dart. Noise = Shaft Horsepower.
 
whywhytee
Posts: 53
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:50 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:50 am

deltairlines wrote:
MD-90s are gone end of day April 1. There will still be ~132 daily MD-88 flights in the new schedule. They are ATL to:

BDL (4)
BNA (5)
CHS (5)
CMH (4)
DAB (3)
GRR (3)
HOU (3)
IND (4)
MCI (4)
MEM (5)
OMA (3)
ORF (4)
PHL (5)
PIT (4)
RDU (5)
RIC (4)
SAT (4)
SRQ (4)
STL (4)

Couple other things I noticed with the new April schedule:

- No more domestic widebody flights. JFK-LAX/SFO are all now 75W; Hawaii is all 757-200.
- 757-300s are all parked for April

Breakdown of US/Canada departures by fleet type (all numbers are approximate but should be close):
A220 - 88
A319 - 176
A320 - 98
A321 - 256
717 - 324
737-700 - 20
737-800 - 162
737-900 - 258
757-200 Domestic - 78
757-200 International Config - 30
MD-88 - 132
CRJ-200 - 348
CRJ-700 - 12
CRJ-900 - 418
E-170 - 0
E-175 - 260
E-175W - 156

I'll play around this afternoon and try to find the last MD-90 flights.


Is the MD-90 gone forever, or just stored? Hoping it’s the latter but I feel like it’s the former :(
 
flyguy89
Posts: 2764
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:02 am

bigred10k wrote:
Delta's most recent cuts have absolutely decimated CVG. If DL emerges as a smaller carrier and doesn't bring back these flights, one wonders about the overall viability of the CVG airport. Just too much in lost gate fees if it is relegated to a spoke in Delta's network.

I mean, all airports are seeing massive service reductions right now, so not unique to CVG. The viability of the entire airport though? It serves a metro area of 2.2 million and is also seeing a huge ramp up in cargo activity between the DHL and Prime Air hubs, so long-term it'll be fine.
 
n7371f
Posts: 1730
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:47 am

Sorry but anyone who thinks things are going to be perking way back up in September - God Bless you. Because it's going to be a mess.
 
questions
Posts: 2338
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:36 am

JAMBOJET wrote:
dlflynhayn wrote:
By listening to the Finance guys on the stock market today they all said DL will be fine because of the way the company is operated,All airlines will have to deal with obstacles ahead but mentioned AA as the one to look out for to be on a downward spiral quicker than others if this virus keeps up.When this is all over who knows maybe only two of the BIG 3 remain.

If one of the big 3 airlines goes bankrupt into Chapter 11, they all will eventually in the following 10 years. You can't have one of the airlines going out and restructuring/lowering their entire cost structure after this big of a crisis and expect the other two to compete effectively as before. It's too much of an advantage for one carrier to restructure like that.

Just like after 9/11, Delta & NW went bankrupt and restructured, US Airways did, United did, and AA tried not to but eventually had to since the others had lowered their cost structures. Careful what Delta fans wish for...


WN loves to gloat that they’ve never filed bankruptcy or laid off employees while the US3 have.

They are in for a rude awakening.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2676
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:37 pm

jordanh wrote:
If I read this correctly, United is paying every employee below management level their full salaries, for the next six months, even though they are flying 20% or 25% of their schedule, and their loads (again, if I am reading the other topics correctly) are around 20% to 30%? That would mean they are actually bringing in less than 10% of their usual income. How is that even financially feasible? What is their total monthly income vs. payroll?

It would seem that they, rather than AA, might turn out to be the first candidate for bankruptcy.



You guys are really drinking kool aid over at Delta. The whole purpose of the bailout was to protect non-management pay and jobs and it does not matter if you are union or a nonunion employee. If you are a non-management employee and your airline participates in the tax payer bailout you should still be making the same hourly wage you were making before COVID-19 began. The Federal Government is covering the non-management payroll for airlines that accept the bailout until September 30, 2020. Each individual airline is responsible to for management and executive pay and each individual airline is responsible for covering all remaining operational needs. The bailout funds are strictly to be used to cover payroll for ALL non-management employees.

Kudos to Delta they have managed to get bailout while at the same time re-classifying all their frontline employees at management hence the reason they have "asked" frontline employees to take a 25% pay cut. So frontline employees take the pay cut while Delta banks the remainder of the bailout funds only to use them later to support their operational needs. What makes this funny and sad at the same time is DL frontline employees don't even know that Delta Airlines is shafting them right now.

Normally UA is the airline that lies to and mistreat their employees, my how the tables have turned. Delta has you all so afraid of loosing your jobs as an at will employee that you all are willing to accept a 25% pay cut even tho the Federal Government is paying Delta Airlines your full pre-COVID-19 salary. I hate to say this but Delta is stealing 25% of every frontline nonunion employees pay. This is why certain members of Congress wanted congressional oversight to make sure airlines use these funds correctly and not take a bailout, then turn around and cut employees pay or furlough employees.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:24 pm

jayunited wrote:
If you are a non-management employee and your airline participates in the tax payer bailout you should still be making the same hourly wage you were making before COVID-19 began.


That's the rub. Our base rate(s) haven't changed one bit. Delta is simply manipulating the language in the bill. Our wages aren't cut; our total hours worked are. To be clear, I'm not arguing your larger point-I agree with you- I'm just sharing what the company's contention is.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
nwadeicer
Posts: 283
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:17 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:31 pm

But we're one big Delta family. You know, the Delta Difference.. As I stated before, if Delta could get away with making every front line employee a ready reserve or seasonal ready reserve they would in a heartbeat. When we merged with Delta the ratio of full time to part time/ready reserve was approximately 70/30. that number has changed to 50/50 and in some stations the ready reserves outnumber full time. This was not supposed to happen. Delta also knows what is needed to order a union vote, this is why you constantly see RR and seasonal RR positions available. Constantly changing numbers make it harder to get that 50 + 1 needed to secure a vote. These people would drop you down to RR so fast it would make your head spin if they could.
I miss the Red Tail
 
United1
Posts: 4096
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:59 pm

B757Forever wrote:
United1 wrote:
jordanh wrote:

If I read this correctly, United is paying every employee below management level their full salaries, for the next six months, even though they are flying 20% or 25% of their schedule, and their loads (again, if I am reading the other topics correctly) are around 20% to 30%? That would mean they are actually bringing in less than 10% of their usual income. How is that even financially feasible? What is their total monthly income vs. payroll?



The airline bailout Congress just agreed on basically subsidized all US airlines payroll for the next 6 months (through September 31st.). Which is why ALL of the US carriers should be able to pay all of their non management employees in full up until that point. That money was given to the airlines as a grant with some conditions attached....ie limiting executive pay, no layoffs until September 31st, no stock buybacks for the next 18 months or so...ect.


The reality of the situation for all carriers is that the passenger traffic has fallen off a cliff. April, May and June are a bloodbath for the carriers. July and August have a very small uptick in tickets sold. Delta is planning for and preparing for the time when the stimulus money runs out, which it will. Ed Bastian has been clear that DL cannot depend on extended bailouts and that DL must do everything in their power to self-help to survive this unprecedented downturn. The taxpayers and congress have little patience, especially for companies who appear to be approaching this situation without seriousness. This is the worst event the airline industry has ever seen. Sadly, it will not end well for many.


I don’t disagree with you that every airline is going to need to adapt in order to survive. UA and to some extent DL seem to be the two airlines in the US who are reacting the most to this which is not all that surprising to me. What is mind boggling to me as a tax payer is I just spent 50 billion dollars to ensure that all of the airlines could make payroll for the next six months. So what does DL do? Cut the number of hours offered to its employees thereby creating a hardship for those same employees we gave DL money to protect. So much for that DL family...
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
jordanh
Posts: 306
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Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:51 pm

jayunited wrote:
jordanh wrote:
If I read this correctly, United is paying every employee below management level their full salaries, for the next six months, even though they are flying 20% or 25% of their schedule, and their loads (again, if I am reading the other topics correctly) are around 20% to 30%? That would mean they are actually bringing in less than 10% of their usual income. How is that even financially feasible? What is their total monthly income vs. payroll? It would seem that they, rather than AA, might turn out to be the first candidate for bankruptcy.

You guys are really drinking kool aid over at Delta.


Why you quote me and say, "You guys... over at Delta" is a mystery. "Us guys" work for a carrier in South America - but if you think we can't see what is going on, you are mistaken. If your beloved UA doesn't take everything necessary to preserve its finances, then "you guys" at United may no longer... be working for United. Lots of jobs could be lost.

By the way, we - that means more than 40,000 employees - have seen our wages cut by 50%. And nobody is complaining, because we understand how serious this situation is. You brag about taking 100% from your airline, despite the airline earning about 8-10% of its usual revenue. With all the other expenses it has, in addition to payroll, I don't see how this is tenable. You can gloat about all you are making... until you head to the unemployment line in October.
 
B757Forever
Posts: 864
Joined: Tue May 04, 2010 3:23 am

Re: Delta plans to emerge a "smaller" carrier

Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:01 pm

United1 wrote:
B757Forever wrote:
United1 wrote:

The airline bailout Congress just agreed on basically subsidized all US airlines payroll for the next 6 months (through September 31st.). Which is why ALL of the US carriers should be able to pay all of their non management employees in full up until that point. That money was given to the airlines as a grant with some conditions attached....ie limiting executive pay, no layoffs until September 31st, no stock buybacks for the next 18 months or so...ect.


The reality of the situation for all carriers is that the passenger traffic has fallen off a cliff. April, May and June are a bloodbath for the carriers. July and August have a very small uptick in tickets sold. Delta is planning for and preparing for the time when the stimulus money runs out, which it will. Ed Bastian has been clear that DL cannot depend on extended bailouts and that DL must do everything in their power to self-help to survive this unprecedented downturn. The taxpayers and congress have little patience, especially for companies who appear to be approaching this situation without seriousness. This is the worst event the airline industry has ever seen. Sadly, it will not end well for many.


I don’t disagree with you that every airline is going to need to adapt in order to survive. UA and to some extent DL seem to be the two airlines in the US who are reacting the most to this which is not all that surprising to me. What is mind boggling to me as a tax payer is I just spent 50 billion dollars to ensure that all of the airlines could make payroll for the next six months. So what does DL do? Cut the number of hours offered to its employees thereby creating a hardship for those same employees we gave DL money to protect. So much for that DL family...


The four biggest US carriers combined are currently bleeding well in excess of 200M a day. Without fundamental, painful changes at each carrier, the stimulus money will do nothing but delay the inevitable. All carriers will need to drastically remake themselves if they have any expectation of surviving this event. Ed Bastian stated early on that DL would self-help and not depend on stimulus money. The action taken to reduce hours was initiated a week before the stimulus was passed due partly to a lack of confidence in our elected officials to act quickly coupled with the sobering reality that things cannot and will not be business as usual. DL is not focusing solely on making payroll through September, they are focusing on survival well past that time. I personally prefer they act sooner and more responsibly, you see it differently. That's OK.
I've seen some huge ups and downs in my 35 years in the airline industry, this one is by far the worst I've ever seen.
The Rolls Royce Dart. Noise = Shaft Horsepower.

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