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sphealey
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Wisdom of parking large #s of aircraft at one airport in North America

Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:13 pm

I have seen reports from multiple sources of airlines parking large numbers of aircraft - making up a large percentage of their fleet - at one airport in North America. This brief article from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution is typical, implying that Delta will park up to 150 aircraft at ATL:

https://www.ajc.com/blog/airport/flight-cuts-delta-planes-parked-atlanta-airport-runway-taxiways/OWiNuoo6IzULD9ovSC3EwL/

I have to question the wisdom of putting so many aircraft at one location as North America enters tornado season [1]. Tornadoes can occur in any month in North America but April to June is the peak season: https://www.spc.noaa.gov/climo/online/monthly/newm.html. It would take only one large tornado to destroy a larger percentage of an airline's entire fleet as occurred to the B-36 fleet in 1952.

Dispersing an airline's fleet to multiple regional airports would mean it would take longer to get them back up and running as maintenance teams would have to travel from site to site, and the airlines would not have the price leverage over the regional airports that they have over their home base. But in terms of risk management its seems far wiser to me to disperse.

[1] Hurricane season as well. I assume no airline is parking at airports directly on the coast, but Atlanta and other southern locations can be affected by larger hurricanes
 
smartplane
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Re: Wisdom of parking large #s of aircraft at one airport in North America

Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:47 pm

Standard clause in a commercial aircraft hull insurance (ground) policy is to take all practicable steps to mitigate risk. Wouldn't have thought their financiers would be impressed to see such a concentration either, but everyone is distracted.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Wisdom of parking large #s of aircraft at one airport in North America

Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:55 pm

Hurricanes and tornados arent really prevalent in many parts of the US.

Also, whats to stop a crazy person from breaching an airport perimeter and hitting every airplane they see with a sledge hammer? Some things just happen.
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jetblueguy22
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Re: Wisdom of parking large #s of aircraft at one airport in North America

Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:58 pm

You need to have a balance between spreading the risk and minimizing the cost of storage.

Spreading the fleet over a massive amount of airports just isn’t cost efficient. How do you maintain them? What happens as they start coming back online? How do you ensure the security?

Parking 150 at ATL makes the most sense. TechOps is there and can work on them while they’re on the ground. You can do the required storage maintenance and best of all, you don’t have to move staffing around during a pandemic.

The statistical probability that ATL will be hit by a tornado is extremely small. And even if it does get hit, not all of the aircraft are parked in the same area.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Wisdom of parking large #s of aircraft at one airport in North America

Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:58 pm

Hurricanes aren’t really a concern because they come with days of warning. Take ERAU in DAB, which has scads of airplanes in a hurricane zone; they just move them if necessary. Moreover, it would take a crazily strong hurricane to produce conditions dangerous for aircraft hundreds of miles inland at ATL.
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KFLLCFII
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Re: Wisdom of parking large #s of aircraft at one airport in North America

Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:59 pm

sphealey wrote:
I have seen reports from multiple sources of airlines parking large numbers of aircraft - making up a large percentage of their fleet - at one airport in North America. This brief article from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution is typical, implying that Delta will park up to 150 aircraft at ATL:

https://www.ajc.com/blog/airport/flight-cuts-delta-planes-parked-atlanta-airport-runway-taxiways/OWiNuoo6IzULD9ovSC3EwL/

I have to question the wisdom of putting so many aircraft at one location as North America enters tornado season [1]. Tornadoes can occur in any month in North America but April to June is the peak season: https://www.spc.noaa.gov/climo/online/monthly/newm.html. It would take only one large tornado to destroy a larger percentage of an airline's entire fleet as occurred to the B-36 fleet in 1952.

Dispersing an airline's fleet to multiple regional airports would mean it would take longer to get them back up and running as maintenance teams would have to travel from site to site, and the airlines would not have the price leverage over the regional airports that they have over their home base. But in terms of risk management its seems far wiser to me to disperse.

[1] Hurricane season as well. I assume no airline is parking at airports directly on the coast, but Atlanta and other southern locations can be affected by larger hurricanes


Atlanta has 192 gates...How many would normally be taken up by Delta aircraft on any given night?
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MIflyer12
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Re: Wisdom of parking large #s of aircraft at one airport in North America

Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:21 pm

KFLLCFII wrote:

Atlanta has 192 gates...How many would normally be taken up by Delta aircraft on any given night?


Ding ding ding!

How many direct tornadoes has ATL experienced in the last 20 years? These are very, very low probability events in a specific spot.
 
Lrockeagle
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Re: Wisdom of parking large #s of aircraft at one airport in North America

Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:43 pm

KFLLCFII wrote:
sphealey wrote:
I have seen reports from multiple sources of airlines parking large numbers of aircraft - making up a large percentage of their fleet - at one airport in North America. This brief article from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution is typical, implying that Delta will park up to 150 aircraft at ATL:

https://www.ajc.com/blog/airport/flight-cuts-delta-planes-parked-atlanta-airport-runway-taxiways/OWiNuoo6IzULD9ovSC3EwL/

I have to question the wisdom of putting so many aircraft at one location as North America enters tornado season [1]. Tornadoes can occur in any month in North America but April to June is the peak season: https://www.spc.noaa.gov/climo/online/monthly/newm.html. It would take only one large tornado to destroy a larger percentage of an airline's entire fleet as occurred to the B-36 fleet in 1952.

Dispersing an airline's fleet to multiple regional airports would mean it would take longer to get them back up and running as maintenance teams would have to travel from site to site, and the airlines would not have the price leverage over the regional airports that they have over their home base. But in terms of risk management its seems far wiser to me to disperse.

[1] Hurricane season as well. I assume no airline is parking at airports directly on the coast, but Atlanta and other southern locations can be affected by larger hurricanes


Atlanta has 192 gates...How many would normally be taken up by Delta aircraft on any given night?

Isn’t the model to have most aircraft at out stations for RON and have the first flight of the day be to the hub?
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I got $20 says AA takes their 787's with GE powerplants. Just a hunch. Any takers?
 
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Polot
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Re: Wisdom of parking large #s of aircraft at one airport in North America

Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:02 pm

Lrockeagle wrote:
KFLLCFII wrote:
sphealey wrote:
I have seen reports from multiple sources of airlines parking large numbers of aircraft - making up a large percentage of their fleet - at one airport in North America. This brief article from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution is typical, implying that Delta will park up to 150 aircraft at ATL:

https://www.ajc.com/blog/airport/flight-cuts-delta-planes-parked-atlanta-airport-runway-taxiways/OWiNuoo6IzULD9ovSC3EwL/

I have to question the wisdom of putting so many aircraft at one location as North America enters tornado season [1]. Tornadoes can occur in any month in North America but April to June is the peak season: https://www.spc.noaa.gov/climo/online/monthly/newm.html. It would take only one large tornado to destroy a larger percentage of an airline's entire fleet as occurred to the B-36 fleet in 1952.

Dispersing an airline's fleet to multiple regional airports would mean it would take longer to get them back up and running as maintenance teams would have to travel from site to site, and the airlines would not have the price leverage over the regional airports that they have over their home base. But in terms of risk management its seems far wiser to me to disperse.

[1] Hurricane season as well. I assume no airline is parking at airports directly on the coast, but Atlanta and other southern locations can be affected by larger hurricanes


Atlanta has 192 gates...How many would normally be taken up by Delta aircraft on any given night?

Isn’t the model to have most aircraft at out stations for RON and have the first flight of the day be to the hub?


It really doesn’t matter, at peak times of the day ATL (and all airports at their peak times) are packed with aircraft, sometimes well over a hundred aircraft depending on the size of the hub. Often when weather is unexpectedly bad.

We don’t question the wisdom of having all these aircraft on the ground at once in these super hubs.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Wisdom of parking large #s of aircraft at one airport in North America

Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:29 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
Hurricanes and tornados arent really prevalent in many parts of the US.

Also, whats to stop a crazy person from breaching an airport perimeter and hitting every airplane they see with a sledge hammer? Some things just happen.


Or throw a molotov cocktail at every aircraft possible.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: Wisdom of parking large #s of aircraft at one airport in North America

Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:19 pm

The original poster is correct - it's not just tornado's but hail storms that could wreck havoc. I can't think of a part of the US that has more thunderstorms than the SE.

What was it 4 or 5 years ago Alabama, Mississippi and Oklahoma were by pounded by tornado's. Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada and California are the safest.
    300 319 320 321 707 717 720 727 72S 737 73S 734 735 73G 738 739 747 757 762 ARJ B11 C212 CRJ CR2 CR7 CR9 CV5 D8S DC9 D9S D94 D95 D10 DH8 DTO EMB EM2 E135 E145 E190 FH7 F28 F100 FTRIMTR HRN L10 L15 M80 M90 SF3 SWM YS11
     
    ltbewr
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    Re: Wisdom of parking large #s of aircraft at one airport in North America

    Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:31 pm

    Severe thunderstorms with high winds and hail are also a risk for aircraft. Likely airlines have done enough spreading around of aircraft to reduce risk from storm damage. As to risks of tornado damage, I would limit storage exposure in Oklahoma, Kansas, Arkansas, Texas with high risk of tornadoes.
     
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    Thunderboltdrgn
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    Re: Wisdom of parking large #s of aircraft at one airport in North America

    Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:53 pm

    ltbewr wrote:
    Severe thunderstorms with high winds and hail are also a risk for aircraft. Likely airlines have done enough spreading around of aircraft to reduce risk from storm damage.
    As to risks of tornado damage, I would limit storage exposure in Oklahoma, Kansas, Arkansas, Texas with high risk of tornadoes.


    What about Nashville/Tennessee?
    Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
     
    ltbewr
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    Re: Wisdom of parking large #s of aircraft at one airport in North America

    Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:56 pm

    Thunderboltdrgn wrote:
    ltbewr wrote:
    Severe thunderstorms with high winds and hail are also a risk for aircraft. Likely airlines have done enough spreading around of aircraft to reduce risk from storm damage.
    As to risks of tornado damage, I would limit storage exposure in Oklahoma, Kansas, Arkansas, Texas with high risk of tornadoes.


    What about Nashville/Tennessee?

    That recent event was a real abnormality, but I would also include parts of Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky and Ohio also with some history of tornados.
     
    FlyingElvii
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    Re: Wisdom of parking large #s of aircraft at one airport in North America

    Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:10 pm

    When you are trying desperately to conserve cash in a crisis, free ( or already paid for) parking is better than paying for parking elsewhere.

    Add in going to a low-utization operation, if they use the sit raft every other day or do, they don’t have to through the expense of inspections and mothballing.
     
    MohawkWeekend
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    Re: Wisdom of parking large #s of aircraft at one airport in North America

    Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:21 pm

    The Govt could offer free parking at airbases in the Southwest and at Davis-Monathan (sp?)
      300 319 320 321 707 717 720 727 72S 737 73S 734 735 73G 738 739 747 757 762 ARJ B11 C212 CRJ CR2 CR7 CR9 CV5 D8S DC9 D9S D94 D95 D10 DH8 DTO EMB EM2 E135 E145 E190 FH7 F28 F100 FTRIMTR HRN L10 L15 M80 M90 SF3 SWM YS11
       
      SkyVoice
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      Re: Wisdom of parking large #s of aircraft at one airport in North America

      Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:59 pm

      * * BAD JOKE ALERT * *

      The spring training complex for the Cincinnati Reds & the Cleveland Indians is located in Goodyear, Arizona, across the street from the Phoenix Goodyear Airport (GYR). Now that spring training has been postponed, perhaps the ball clubs can make a few bucks by parking planes there!
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      "Tough times don't last. Tough people do."

      - Robert H. Schuller
       
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      FLALEFTY
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      Re: Wisdom of parking large #s of aircraft at one airport in North America

      Sat Mar 21, 2020 10:10 pm

      The locations chosen for short or long-term aircraft storage are guided by 1) Ample parking space. 2) Runways, taxiways and ramps that can handle heavy jets. 3) Adequate airport security. 4) MRO infrastructure for large aircraft maintenance. 5) Availablilty of a qualified MRO contractor or subcontractor with experience maintaining large airliners.

      The following are some airports that meet the above criteria: ROW (American, United, others), VCV (just about every airline), MZJ (Delta, others), BYH (Delta), TUL (American), BFM (American, others), SBD (various airlines) and BHM (Delta). Others I can think of that also meet the criteria in my home state of Florida include LCQ (United and JetBlue get their A32X's serviced there) and VQQ (a former Navy Base near Jacksonville). I'm sure there are others.

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