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bravoindia
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:14 am

SDF has 21 on Covid contact tracing. So 19 CPCs for the next week.
 
ATCSuggester
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:40 am

bravoindia wrote:
SDF has 21 on Covid contact tracing. So 19 CPCs for the next week.


Too easy! Just go ATC-0 during the day shift and bring back everyone for the UPS overnight push!

PCT gets a level 3 cleaning all the time now. They just cleaned our lobby, ops room etc. the other day due to someone testing positive. I heard a number being thrown around like $250k per cleaning or some crazy figure. Knowing what I know now I should have started a HAZMAT cleaning company about a year ago and gotten an FAA contract. I would be absolutely rolling in it!
 
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LAXintl
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:53 am

SNA tower closed at 4pm due to a shortage of controllers due to "probable" cases of infection.

https://www.ocregister.com/2020/12/20/c ... -affected/
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
leoben
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:47 pm

Plenty of ATC-0 in the Centers for last month or two for deep cleaning. Some strange routings in the middle of the night.
Here's a 752 doing a Tower Enroute Clearance last week for a ZDC closure:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/FDX ... /KPHL/KGSO
Look at the cleared route - that dog-leg at BWI - for the ADIZ?

Used to fly a bit of TEC back in the day doing GA in the Northeast and later with the regional on "Escape from New York" kind of days.

Did LGA-GSO at least once, but the routing took us west of Dulles, and after we were well clear of ZNY, we got a climb to cruise altitude.

Also did LGA-RIC several times, and it was always 8,000 all the way down. NYTracon- McGuire- Atlantic City- Dover- Salisbury- Norfolk- Potomac Approaches. If we were doing TEC, it was already a crappy day (usually convection) so the 8,000 ft and 250kts could make for some brutal flights. But still better than sitting in the refugee camp terminal at LGA. Good times.....

I would think that the Center closures are having a bigger effect out west - either much longer routings or having to change/cancel flights. If ZDV, ZAB or ZLC goes down, there arent many other options.
 
ATCJesus
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:05 pm

I work approach, but I’ve seen a lot of published routings that they have to fly overnight if a center goes down.
 
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UPlog
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:07 pm

I fly your boxes
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:56 am

UPlog wrote:
ZME went ATC zero this afternoon


Imagine if ZOA/KZAK (Oakland Center) went ATC zero.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/he ... c/oakland/

"Oakland Center is unique in that two distinctly different air traffic control functions are handled here. There is the normal en route air traffic control as well as an oceanic air traffic operation that manages the largest volume of international airspace in the world at one facility."

From wiki: "Oakland Center KZAK[4] also covers 18.7 million square miles of the Pacific Ocean, roughly 9.5% of the Earth's total surface area, making this the largest Area Control Center in the world by controlled surface area.[5]"
 
krsw757
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:32 pm

It’s the same at ZJX. The criteria for going atc zero seems to be completely different than any other facility because they can’t afford to lose ZJX. There really isn’t an option for routing aircraft around the center. It’s very interesting to drop everyone down to 170 and cancel ifr.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:28 pm

ZFW will go ATC zero today between 2145-2330z for COVID cleaning.

Be a fun afternoon for AA and WN @ DFW/DAL.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
maps4ltd
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:53 pm

LAXintl wrote:
ZFW will go ATC zero today between 2145-2330z for COVID cleaning.

Be a fun afternoon for AA and WN @ DFW/DAL.

Oh yeah, both are already seeing diversions.

I initially assumed weather but there's nothing that bad in the area.
Remind me, 2145-2330 is 3:45-5:30 Central?
Next flights:
Who knows? :/
 
MaxTrimm
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:07 pm

Lots of flights leaving DAL going TEC (tower enroute), then staying at 12,000 feet through TRACON airspace south towards Houston. At least that’s what it looks like is happening. Pretty fascinating to look at. Also, a cell of weather around Houston isn’t helping. AA1585 (B772, MCO-DFW) entered a hold for a little while off the coast of Louisiana, but now is heading northbound. I think ZFW should be reopening any minute now
 
MaxTrimm
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:11 pm

Seeing aircraft re-enter the airspace. Looks like some sectors are reopening right now
 
DEN1895
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:15 pm

AAL 280, ICN-DFW, diverted to DEN after changing course in New Mexico, also not sure what is going on at the airport as there are aircraft waiting at both ends of the runways for departures.
Image
 
MaxTrimm
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:17 pm

DEN1895 wrote:
AAL 280, ICN-DFW, diverted to DEN after changing course in New Mexico, also not sure what is going on at the airport as there are aircraft waiting at both ends of the runways for departures.
Image

There was a ground stop while ZFW was closed. Should be lifted for all IFR departures any minute now.
 
32andBelow
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:43 am

Why did zfw close so early. Cleaning are usually at like 2am
 
N47
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:58 am

This is what it looked like about 4 hrs ago:

Image
 
Miamiairport
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:34 am

N47 wrote:
This is what it looked like about 4 hrs ago:

Image


Flew MIA/DFW and got diverted to IAH. Fueled up then thunderstorms came up. 30 minute wait. Then the fuelers couldn't find the fuel slip (can't they just email to someone in Dallas?). Another 45 minutes looking for that. Then 20 minutes for a pushback crew. Then another 20 minutes waiting to be released. I'm rebooked on the last flight to PHX tonight leaving around 11PM. It's been a miserable day in Texas. Thank god I was in Business on a 772.
 
N965UW
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:21 am

I know I'm late on this, but last week on the 21st (around the same time as ZME), ZBW Area C went ATC zero. BOS traffic going to/from points south was taking the scenic route through NY state before turning into MA.
You can always go around
 
Miamiairport
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:59 am

I’m at DFW now & this is something else. Our inbound a/c is “ somewhere on the tarmac.” The GA just lost it mentally. The rebooking center is about 200 people deep. AA’s inability to recover operationally is on full display. Meanwhile it appears as though Spirit is quickly getting planes on & off the gates.
 
MaxTrimm
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:16 am

32andBelow wrote:
Why did zfw close so early. Cleaning are usually at like 2am

I heard it had something to do with FAA charts being updated tonight. I do not know why exactly this would need ATC staffing, but a licensed dispatcher I know mentioned that as a possible reason for the midday closure.
 
747fan
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:05 am

DEN1895 wrote:
AAL 280, ICN-DFW, diverted to DEN after changing course in New Mexico, also not sure what is going on at the airport as there are aircraft waiting at both ends of the runways for departures.
Image

The planes on the north side by the 17R/18L thresholds are almost certainly arrivals that just landed waiting on a gate. Given that everything likely came in at the about the same time once the ground stop was lifted plus numerous departures still on the gates that also couldn't leave DFW due to the same airspace issue combined with crews probably starting to time-out, etc. I can imagine it was "gridlocked."
I worked AA ramp control at DFW for a few years and this seems reminiscent of a typical high-impact thunderstorm event. I dealt with upwards of 30-40 planes holding for gates during those events there once the "flood gates" would open and all the diversions and ground-stopped flights would finally arrive.
 
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airportugal310
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:20 am

Miamiairport wrote:
I’m at DFW now & this is something else. Our inbound a/c is “ somewhere on the tarmac.” The GA just lost it mentally. The rebooking center is about 200 people deep. AA’s inability to recover operationally is on full display. Meanwhile it appears as though Spirit is quickly getting planes on & off the gates.


These posts are rather subjective in substance (dare I say teenage) and lacking any real information...I mean...are you really trying to compare AA’s operation at DFW to Spirit??
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
hayzel777
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:12 am

MaxTrimm wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Why did zfw close so early. Cleaning are usually at like 2am

I heard it had something to do with FAA charts being updated tonight. I do not know why exactly this would need ATC staffing, but a licensed dispatcher I know mentioned that as a possible reason for the midday closure.

So they needed to update charts but then were embarrassed so they lied to everyone and said they needed a COVID cleaning? I think not. The feds have been doing cleaning all throughout the day the last few weeks. They did it to ZME last week too.

The cleaning was on the NAS operation planning calls from ATCSCC in D.C., which the airlines are subscribed to. You would think AA would prepare the airport teams for it...
 
krsw757
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:48 pm

I find it hard to believe they would close an entire enroute facility down to update charts.
 
Miamiairport
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:18 pm

airportugal310 wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
I’m at DFW now & this is something else. Our inbound a/c is “ somewhere on the tarmac.” The GA just lost it mentally. The rebooking center is about 200 people deep. AA’s inability to recover operationally is on full display. Meanwhile it appears as though Spirit is quickly getting planes on & off the gates.


These posts are rather subjective in substance (dare I say teenage) and lacking any real information...I mean...are you really trying to compare AA’s operation at DFW to Spirit??


What do you mean? That is exactly the way the GA said word for word. Customer service counters were overwhelmed with lines of hundreds of people. Our plane departed at midnight and a number of flights were still waiting to board. Meanwhile I Spirit planes come in and out, even at IAH while we waited 45 minutes for a fuel slip (and other delays in a diversion). It also didn't help that the AC did not remain open like they normally do.

The only "teenager" here is a person like you that knows nothing but likes to make a smart ass comment on something you haven't a clue.
 
ilovepabst
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:46 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
airportugal310 wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
I’m at DFW now & this is something else. Our inbound a/c is “ somewhere on the tarmac.” The GA just lost it mentally. The rebooking center is about 200 people deep. AA’s inability to recover operationally is on full display. Meanwhile it appears as though Spirit is quickly getting planes on & off the gates.


These posts are rather subjective in substance (dare I say teenage) and lacking any real information...I mean...are you really trying to compare AA’s operation at DFW to Spirit??


What do you mean? That is exactly the way the GA said word for word. Customer service counters were overwhelmed with lines of hundreds of people. Our plane departed at midnight and a number of flights were still waiting to board. Meanwhile I Spirit planes come in and out, even at IAH while we waited 45 minutes for a fuel slip (and other delays in a diversion). It also didn't help that the AC did not remain open like they normally do.

The only "teenager" here is a person like you that knows nothing but likes to make a smart ass comment on something you haven't a clue.



IAH isn't in ZFW, wouldn't be affected directly other than routing around ZFW for inbounds and outbounds
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:31 pm

In case not everyone knows the FAA lingo:
Enroute Center Facility IDs:

ZAB-Albuquerque Center
ZAN-Anchorage Center
ZAU-Chicago Center (Aurora, IL)
ZBW-Boston Center
ZDC-Washington Center
ZDV-Denver Center
ZFW-Fort Worth Center
ZHU-Houston Center
ZID-Indianapolis Center
ZJX-Jacksonville Center
ZKC-Kansas City Center
ZLA-Los Angeles Center
ZLC-Salt Lake City Center
ZMA-Miami Center
ZME-Memphis Center
ZMP-Minneapolis Center
ZNY-New York Center
ZOA-Oakland Center
ZOB-Cleveland Center (Oberlin, OH)
ZSE-Seattle Center
ZTL-Atlanta Center
 
washingtonflyer
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:43 pm

They did COVID cleaning in the cab at LAX a few weeks back right around midnight. Made all the east-bound red eyes sit on the ground for a good hour plus.
 
AAtakeMeAway
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:35 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
airportugal310 wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
I’m at DFW now & this is something else. Our inbound a/c is “ somewhere on the tarmac.” The GA just lost it mentally. The rebooking center is about 200 people deep. AA’s inability to recover operationally is on full display. Meanwhile it appears as though Spirit is quickly getting planes on & off the gates.


These posts are rather subjective in substance (dare I say teenage) and lacking any real information...I mean...are you really trying to compare AA’s operation at DFW to Spirit??


What do you mean? That is exactly the way the GA said word for word. Customer service counters were overwhelmed with lines of hundreds of people. Our plane departed at midnight and a number of flights were still waiting to board. Meanwhile I Spirit planes come in and out, even at IAH while we waited 45 minutes for a fuel slip (and other delays in a diversion). It also didn't help that the AC did not remain open like they normally do.

The only "teenager" here is a person like you that knows nothing but likes to make a smart ass comment on something you haven't a clue.


I think this member if referring to you trying to compare the scale and size of AA's operation at DFW to Spirit's operation at DFW. It's certainly much more complicated for AA to recover from an event like this, due to the volume, than it is for any other carrier in ZFW.
As to the rest of your OP ... sounds 'bout right.
 
ATCSuggester
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:36 am

Shutting down ZFW in the middle of the afternoon apparently can cause headaches at DFW. Who would have thought!

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the next crew walking into the center has FDA personnel waiting to stick them with the vaccine before they plug in haha.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:20 am

MaxTrimm wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Why did zfw close so early. Cleaning are usually at like 2am

I heard it had something to do with FAA charts being updated tonight. I do not know why exactly this would need ATC staffing, but a licensed dispatcher I know mentioned that as a possible reason for the midday closure.

Erm, no. That makes exactly zero sense, so he/she needs to reconsider their theories! There is no chance in hell any center would go ATC zero for an airspace update.

Every time there's a reported case of COVID (probable or confirmed), it goes through a process called JCAT. It's a telcon that involves management from the facility, the region, I believe headquarters, and the union. They determine a course of action, which usually involves a CDC level 3 cleaning based on when the person was last in the facility, when they tested positive, and when the last deep clean was accomplished. They also determine if any contact tracing will be required. Typically this can be accomplished on the mids, but in some rare instances, it needs to occur during peak hours. I believe this happens when the affected employee who has tested positive was in the facility that day, thereby necessitating the cleaning process be accomplished ASAP for the safety of the workforce. This has happened recently to ZDC, ZME, I believe ZAU, and probably others. Obviously it's hugely disruptive, but that's why it's generally limited to extreme circumstances. Some traffic can continue tower enroute and staying below center airspace, but that's more difficult to accomplish in the midwest and west, as there are large swaths of airspace in which the center owns to the ground.
 
MaxTrimm
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Fri Jan 01, 2021 5:16 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
MaxTrimm wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Why did zfw close so early. Cleaning are usually at like 2am

I heard it had something to do with FAA charts being updated tonight. I do not know why exactly this would need ATC staffing, but a licensed dispatcher I know mentioned that as a possible reason for the midday closure.

Erm, no. That makes exactly zero sense, so he/she needs to reconsider their theories! There is no chance in hell any center would go ATC zero for an airspace update.

Every time there's a reported case of COVID (probable or confirmed), it goes through a process called JCAT. It's a telcon that involves management from the facility, the region, I believe headquarters, and the union. They determine a course of action, which usually involves a CDC level 3 cleaning based on when the person was last in the facility, when they tested positive, and when the last deep clean was accomplished. They also determine if any contact tracing will be required. Typically this can be accomplished on the mids, but in some rare instances, it needs to occur during peak hours. I believe this happens when the affected employee who has tested positive was in the facility that day, thereby necessitating the cleaning process be accomplished ASAP for the safety of the workforce. This has happened recently to ZDC, ZME, I believe ZAU, and probably others. Obviously it's hugely disruptive, but that's why it's generally limited to extreme circumstances. Some traffic can continue tower enroute and staying below center airspace, but that's more difficult to accomplish in the midwest and west, as there are large swaths of airspace in which the center owns to the ground.

Very interesting. I was wondering how chart updates would need ATC staffing. Guess I had a reason to be suspect. Happy New Year!
 
32andBelow
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:17 pm

MaxTrimm wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
MaxTrimm wrote:
I heard it had something to do with FAA charts being updated tonight. I do not know why exactly this would need ATC staffing, but a licensed dispatcher I know mentioned that as a possible reason for the midday closure.

Erm, no. That makes exactly zero sense, so he/she needs to reconsider their theories! There is no chance in hell any center would go ATC zero for an airspace update.

Every time there's a reported case of COVID (probable or confirmed), it goes through a process called JCAT. It's a telcon that involves management from the facility, the region, I believe headquarters, and the union. They determine a course of action, which usually involves a CDC level 3 cleaning based on when the person was last in the facility, when they tested positive, and when the last deep clean was accomplished. They also determine if any contact tracing will be required. Typically this can be accomplished on the mids, but in some rare instances, it needs to occur during peak hours. I believe this happens when the affected employee who has tested positive was in the facility that day, thereby necessitating the cleaning process be accomplished ASAP for the safety of the workforce. This has happened recently to ZDC, ZME, I believe ZAU, and probably others. Obviously it's hugely disruptive, but that's why it's generally limited to extreme circumstances. Some traffic can continue tower enroute and staying below center airspace, but that's more difficult to accomplish in the midwest and west, as there are large swaths of airspace in which the center owns to the ground.

Very interesting. I was wondering how chart updates would need ATC staffing. Guess I had a reason to be suspect. Happy New Year!

The airspace gets updated on the fly. And it usually gets updated a day or two before the chart change.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:16 pm

SNA has a delay program today due COVID staffing limitations again. Hourly arrival rate reduced to 10.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
hayzel777
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:40 am

LAXintl wrote:
SNA has a delay program today due COVID staffing limitations again. Hourly arrival rate reduced to 10.

Haven’t they been ATC Zero for a week? Probably still seriously short staffed; only those off the contact tracing/ 7-day quarantine can come back.
 
ATCSuggester
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:24 am

It looks like SNA only has 16 CPC's on staff so with COVID and contract tracing I bet they are hurting right now.

Looks like the average delay is 94 minutes with nationwide EDCT's in place using 20R for arrivals and departures.

Edit: I bet the controllers in the Coast area at SCT are having an awesome time doing uncontrolled field ops at SNA! /sarcasm
 
UPS757Pilot
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:37 am

KZNY went ATC limited at 0500z tonight, I’m guessing COVID-related.
 
m007j
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:18 am

ATCSuggester wrote:
It looks like SNA only has 16 CPC's on staff so with COVID and contract tracing I bet they are hurting right now.

Looks like the average delay is 94 minutes with nationwide EDCT's in place using 20R for arrivals and departures.

Edit: I bet the controllers in the Coast area at SCT are having an awesome time doing uncontrolled field ops at SNA! /sarcasm


SNA tower is closed until the 3rd. Flew in this afternoon and it was certainly challenging sharing the runways with 737s in my little single engine trainer. They've closed the small runway while the tower is closed but Socal was doing a nice job giving everyone a little extra space to get in.
 
m007j
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:19 am

hayzel777 wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
SNA has a delay program today due COVID staffing limitations again. Hourly arrival rate reduced to 10.

Haven’t they been ATC Zero for a week? Probably still seriously short staffed; only those off the contact tracing/ 7-day quarantine can come back.

They are indeed until the 3rd, and I believe even when it's back open they will be running reduced hours with a single runway
 
ATCJesus
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:16 pm

m007j wrote:
ATCSuggester wrote:
It looks like SNA only has 16 CPC's on staff so with COVID and contract tracing I bet they are hurting right now.

Looks like the average delay is 94 minutes with nationwide EDCT's in place using 20R for arrivals and departures.

Edit: I bet the controllers in the Coast area at SCT are having an awesome time doing uncontrolled field ops at SNA! /sarcasm


SNA tower is closed until the 3rd. Flew in this afternoon and it was certainly challenging sharing the runways with 737s in my little single engine trainer. They've closed the small runway while the tower is closed but Socal was doing a nice job giving everyone a little extra space to get in.


How about you take your little trainer somewhere else? We are in a pandemic, you know SNA is closed, but lets make socals life as hard as possible and fly on in...
 
DashTrash
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:11 am

ATCJesus wrote:
m007j wrote:
ATCSuggester wrote:
It looks like SNA only has 16 CPC's on staff so with COVID and contract tracing I bet they are hurting right now.

Looks like the average delay is 94 minutes with nationwide EDCT's in place using 20R for arrivals and departures.

Edit: I bet the controllers in the Coast area at SCT are having an awesome time doing uncontrolled field ops at SNA! /sarcasm


SNA tower is closed until the 3rd. Flew in this afternoon and it was certainly challenging sharing the runways with 737s in my little single engine trainer. They've closed the small runway while the tower is closed but Socal was doing a nice job giving everyone a little extra space to get in.


How about you take your little trainer somewhere else? We are in a pandemic, you know SNA is closed, but lets make socals life as hard as possible and fly on in...

Yep. Airport is closed to touch and goes. Take the hint on the rest unless you’re based there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
m007j
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:04 am

DashTrash wrote:
ATCJesus wrote:
m007j wrote:

SNA tower is closed until the 3rd. Flew in this afternoon and it was certainly challenging sharing the runways with 737s in my little single engine trainer. They've closed the small runway while the tower is closed but Socal was doing a nice job giving everyone a little extra space to get in.


How about you take your little trainer somewhere else? We are in a pandemic, you know SNA is closed, but lets make socals life as hard as possible and fly on in...

Yep. Airport is closed to touch and goes. Take the hint on the rest unless you’re based there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And who said we were doing touch and gos? Taking one student there on a cross country day trip on an IFR flight plan is too much to ask for Socal? They were friendly, extremely competent, happy to see us, and happy to accommodate us. Unless you are a Socal controller and we're personally affected by the one extra plane that came in one day, I respectfully suggest that you keep the judgements to yourselves.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:16 am

m007j wrote:
DashTrash wrote:
ATCJesus wrote:

How about you take your little trainer somewhere else? We are in a pandemic, you know SNA is closed, but lets make socals life as hard as possible and fly on in...

Yep. Airport is closed to touch and goes. Take the hint on the rest unless you’re based there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And who said we were doing touch and gos? Taking one student there on a cross country day trip on an IFR flight plan is too much to ask for Socal? They were friendly, extremely competent, happy to see us, and happy to accommodate us. Unless you are a Socal controller and we're personally affected by the one extra plane that came in one day, I respectfully suggest that you keep the judgements to yourselves.


It’s not like the airports busy anyway.
 
joeblow10
Posts: 583
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:42 am

m007j wrote:
DashTrash wrote:
ATCJesus wrote:

How about you take your little trainer somewhere else? We are in a pandemic, you know SNA is closed, but lets make socals life as hard as possible and fly on in...

Yep. Airport is closed to touch and goes. Take the hint on the rest unless you’re based there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And who said we were doing touch and gos? Taking one student there on a cross country day trip on an IFR flight plan is too much to ask for Socal? They were friendly, extremely competent, happy to see us, and happy to accommodate us. Unless you are a Socal controller and we're personally affected by the one extra plane that came in one day, I respectfully suggest that you keep the judgements to yourselves.


It’s good to see the never ending feud between pilots and controllers continues - even when on the internet :lol:
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Mon Jan 04, 2021 7:19 am

m007j wrote:
DashTrash wrote:
ATCJesus wrote:

How about you take your little trainer somewhere else? We are in a pandemic, you know SNA is closed, but lets make socals life as hard as possible and fly on in...

Yep. Airport is closed to touch and goes. Take the hint on the rest unless you’re based there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


And who said we were doing touch and gos? Taking one student there on a cross country day trip on an IFR flight plan is too much to ask for Socal? They were friendly, extremely competent, happy to see us, and happy to accommodate us. Unless you are a Socal controller and we're personally affected by the one extra plane that came in one day, I respectfully suggest that you keep the judgements to yourselves.

I mean no offense, but we have every right to judge, and I will explain why.

You are correct that flying in your single engine trainer is, as an isolated example, not causing undue stress to the NAS. However, you are not in a vacuum. People across the country have had the same idea as you since March, many of whom are trying to do things we could only briefly accommodate in April and May, but can't anymore.

Just about every facility has had to increase staffing from levels early in the pandemic to handle increased traffic numbers, the majority of which is not essential. Many facilities have returned to normal working schedules. We can't socially distance, we're constantly touching the same surfaces, and mask usage is largely impractical because of the difficulties it can cause in being understood on frequency. My facility alone has had no fewer than two dozen covid positives in the past month alone, and we've gone ATC-0 on average twice per week for more than two months. When a center like mine goes ATC-0, even on the mid shifts, it disrupts tens of thousands of people and can cost millions in additional fuel and other costs. We put our own health at risk — not to mention the health of our families — so that we can continue to fulfill our mission. We are all personally affected, so please do us the courtesy of acknowledging that just because we didn't work your specific flight, it doesn't mean that we're not still going to work every day to work flights like yours. Flights which are frankly unnecessary right now, and are causing us to get sick en masse...myself included.

Fact is, it's not just one extra plane, it's you and everyone else thinking that you're just one extra plane. You flying in your single engine trainer require the same workload and attention as an aircraft with hundreds of people on board. Add in one extra plane, and another extra plane, and another, and pretty soon we're trying to work just as much traffic as usual while trying to minimize our staffing.

Our primary focus right now should be expeditious handling of essential services, like vaccines and medevacs, not accommodating pilots trying to fly to fun airports. If you fail to recognize the increased workload that results from working IFR aircraft in/out of nontowered airports at a time where essential traffic should be given priority, then I suggest you take a tour of your local radar facility when this is over. Also, if you think they were "happy to see" you, then I question whether or not you've ever even met a controller!

I'm not trying to lecture you or discourage you or your student from flying, but please don't lecture us about whether or not we should feel personally affected. Because we are. Our point is that you can IFR cross-country anywhere — it shouldn't be to an airport dealing with irregular operations. Your student doesn't need to IFR to an ATC-0 SNA to gain instrument proficiency.

Nicknuzzii wrote:
It’s not like the airports busy anyway.

Traffic across the NAS is only down roughly 25% compared to last year. While that is significant, to say that many facilities aren't busy is incorrect. We are trying our best to minimize staffing and keep positions combined where possible to limit our exposures. For most of us sitting at a position, traffic numbers have been largely business as usual for quite some time, and in some cases, it's been busier/more complex than usual due to combined sectors. Combined sectors come with a whole host of complications. It's nothing we aren't trained to handle, but it means that often times, we're just as busy or busier than always.
 
m007j
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:05 pm

Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:15 am

Phew, I had no clue this would set off a firestorm but here we go. A little more explanation forthcoming...

atcsundevil wrote:
You are correct that flying in your single engine trainer is, as an isolated example, not causing undue stress to the NAS. However, you are not in a vacuum. People across the country have had the same idea as you since March, many of whom are trying to do things we could only briefly accommodate in April and May, but can't anymore.

Just about every facility has had to increase staffing from levels early in the pandemic to handle increased traffic numbers, the majority of which is not essential. Many facilities have returned to normal working schedules. We can't socially distance, we're constantly touching the same surfaces, and mask usage is largely impractical because of the difficulties it can cause in being understood on frequency. My facility alone has had no fewer than two dozen covid positives in the past month alone, and we've gone ATC-0 on average twice per week for more than two months. When a center like mine goes ATC-0, even on the mid shifts, it disrupts tens of thousands of people and can cost millions in additional fuel and other costs. We put our own health at risk — not to mention the health of our families — so that we can continue to fulfill our mission. We are all personally affected, so please do us the courtesy of acknowledging that just because we didn't work your specific flight, it doesn't mean that we're not still going to work every day to work flights like yours. Flights which are frankly unnecessary right now, and are causing us to get sick en masse...myself included.

Fact is, it's not just one extra plane, it's you and everyone else thinking that you're just one extra plane. You flying in your single engine trainer require the same workload and attention as an aircraft with hundreds of people on board. Add in one extra plane, and another extra plane, and another, and pretty soon we're trying to work just as much traffic as usual while trying to minimize our staffing.

Our primary focus right now should be expeditious handling of essential services, like vaccines and medevacs, not accommodating pilots trying to fly to fun airports. If you fail to recognize the increased workload that results from working IFR aircraft in/out of nontowered airports at a time where essential traffic should be given priority, then I suggest you take a tour of your local radar facility when this is over. Also, if you think they were "happy to see" you, then I question whether or not you've ever even met a controller!

I'm not trying to lecture you or discourage you or your student from flying, but please don't lecture us about whether or not we should feel personally affected. Because we are. Our point is that you can IFR cross-country anywhere — it shouldn't be to an airport dealing with irregular operations. Your student doesn't need to IFR to an ATC-0 SNA to gain instrument proficiency.


atcsundevil, I do have the highest regard for you personally, as a forum moderator and for your always thoughtful replies on this forum as well as you and your other ATC colleagues and sincerely appreciate all of the work you all do to keep us flying. You are correct in that we tend to lose sight of the bigger picture (and that's why we have you guys to keep us in line :)) and it's not always apparent the struggles you all go through in this era of social distancing.

The point is, sometimes I don't get to choose where my student has to go flying, sometimes dispatch insists that we go to this or that airport with a student because our company will breach a contract. While I'm bringing in a single engine trainer, it's not always because that was the cool or fun destination (heck, Carlsbad has a beach within 10 minutes of the airport), it's where my employer and the airline that contracted me and the school to teach their new pilots decided that their student was going to fly. In this particular case, my objection to this flight was overruled and I undertook the mission.

It's been a bleak few months and I respectfully posit that yes, while flight training is not the top of the totem pole, we also are trying to put food on our tables. If it means for me that I have to acquiesce to what was certainly a less-than-advisable decision to continue with this mission, I will do it. In our case, we have more than a few dozen CFIs who are more than willing to take mine and my colleagues' spots if we don't comply with what's asked of us (supply/demand and all that nonsense). You are absolutely correct- I could IFR cross country anywhere but the circumstances in this situation did not allow it.

I'm ashamed at what some of my fellow instructors have been requesting of our local TRACON, including taking students to the class B airport that we fly near. Discussions with our TRACON quickly put an end to that nonsense, but that's to also say that I do participate in an open line of communication with the TRACON and ARTCC. I am grateful to not be one of the CFIs that only operates in the airplane-only bubble that only ever talks to ATC while in an airplane because there's something new to learn each time we meet. I do use the term "happy to see me" lightly, as I'm sure you would like less traffic into an ATC0 airport, but that was to express surprise at controllers that chatted over frequency with us about personal topics much more than one would be accustomed to expect from a busy class C. Forgive me for assuming that their intentions were pure!

I certainly do not intend to lecture any of you as to how you should feel, but I did not take kindly to the comments preceding yours that challenged me with the snark. Those posters were certainly entitled to question the motives but answers might not be as forthcoming and there's going to be a little anger back if one automatically assumes that I'm completely ignorant. My post was certainly not a brag post as that whole endeavor was ill-advised as well as being a flight with extremely high workload that I would not like to repeat.
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 25349
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:23 pm

From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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jetblastdubai
Posts: 2024
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:23 am

Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:50 pm

LAXintl wrote:
ZJX will go ATC zero 2120-0020z.



0220 - 0520 local (if my math is right)
 
User avatar
UPlog
Posts: 716
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:45 am

Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:58 pm

No, more like 420pm-720pm.

EST is -5 from UTC
I fly your boxes
 
canyonblue17
Posts: 726
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:22 am

Re: US ATC Impacts from Coronavirus Thread

Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:03 pm

I'm at PBI and we are averaging about 4-hour delays on anything headed that way.
negative ghostrider the pattern is full

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