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Antaras
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FAA orders carriers to inspect 11 IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:24 am

https://simpleflying.com/a320-family-engine-maintenance/
FAA ordered carriers who operate IAE-powered A320-family airframes to perform urgent maintenance on the aircraft.
This order came after a Vietnam Airlines A321-231 had an engine exploded last week while taking off:
Image

Image

[Pic credit: tinhte.vn]

No one was injured by the incident. However, the incident burned a bunch of grass in SGN :D :
Image
[Cre: Báo Mới]

Upon examination of the affected aircraft, authorities discovered that the Airbus A321-231 airplane, powered by IAE V2533-A5 model turbofan engines, “experienced an uncontained high-pressure turbine (HPT) 1st-stage disk failure that resulted in an aborted takeoff”.

The FAA’s ruling was that this condition, if not addressed, could result in “release of high-energy debris, damage to the engine, damage to the airplane, and loss of the airplane.” Involving International Aero Engines V2500 powerplants, the emergency airworthiness directive (AD) has been issued to prevent further failures of high-pressure turbines.
Last edited by atcsundevil on Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited title for clarity
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scbriml
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect and re-check IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:10 am

Well that will be a lot less disruptive than it would have been in normal times.
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AirlineCritic
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect and re-check IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:48 am

Wow. Had not seen that incident earlier. Quite a fire from engine explosion!
 
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Antaras
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect and re-check IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:46 am

AirlineCritic wrote:
Wow. Had not seen that incident earlier. Quite a fire from engine explosion!

Somehow the grass was burnt and made that big smoke.....
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Chasensfo
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect and re-check IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:47 am

scbriml wrote:
Well that will be a lot less disruptive than it would have been in normal times.

Exactly, luckily most airlines will find the affected Airbuses neatly tucked together at their hubs.
 
FluidFlow
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect and re-check IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:52 am

I wonder if the FAA already knews what to look for. Inspecting is definetely a good thing but if you do not know what caused the engine failure it does not help a lot.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect and re-check IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:16 am

FluidFlow wrote:
I wonder if the FAA already knews what to look for. Inspecting is definetely a good thing but if you do not know what caused the engine failure it does not help a lot.


I'm guessing they're ordering a superficial borescope inspection, searching for obvious cracks. But you're right, they'll need to know more before any further specific actions are required, if at all.
It could just be a freak occurrence. V2500 have been pretty reliable until now. Not sure how they compare to the seemingly indestructible CFM56, but they're quite up there I'm sure.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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Polot
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect and re-check IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:28 am

Francoflier wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
I wonder if the FAA already knews what to look for. Inspecting is definetely a good thing but if you do not know what caused the engine failure it does not help a lot.


I'm guessing they're ordering a superficial borescope inspection, searching for obvious cracks. But you're right, they'll need to know more before any further specific actions are required, if at all.
It could just be a freak occurrence. V2500 have been pretty reliable until now. Not sure how they compare to the seemingly indestructible CFM56, but they're quite up there I'm sure.

According to the actual AD (found on FAA’s website) the high pressure turbine 1st stage disk with certain serial numbers installed on specific (by serial number) engines must be removed from service, and investigation into cause of failure is still ongoing.

It doesn’t sound like this is actually affecting most V2500 aircraft, only a dozen or so engines. I’m guessing the effected engines have similar dates of manufacture.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect and re-check IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:07 pm

Polot wrote:
According to the actual AD (found on FAA’s website) the high pressure turbine 1st stage disk with certain serial numbers installed on specific (by serial number) engines must be removed from service, and investigation into cause of failure is still ongoing.

It doesn’t sound like this is actually affecting most V2500 aircraft, only a dozen or so engines. I’m guessing the effected engines have similar dates of manufacture.


Thanks. That sounds like they are targeting an entire batch of turbine disks.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
FluidFlow
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect and re-check IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:12 pm

Polot wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
I wonder if the FAA already knews what to look for. Inspecting is definetely a good thing but if you do not know what caused the engine failure it does not help a lot.


I'm guessing they're ordering a superficial borescope inspection, searching for obvious cracks. But you're right, they'll need to know more before any further specific actions are required, if at all.
It could just be a freak occurrence. V2500 have been pretty reliable until now. Not sure how they compare to the seemingly indestructible CFM56, but they're quite up there I'm sure.

According to the actual AD (found on FAA’s website) the high pressure turbine 1st stage disk with certain serial numbers installed on specific (by serial number) engines must be removed from service, and investigation into cause of failure is still ongoing.

It doesn’t sound like this is actually affecting most V2500 aircraft, only a dozen or so engines. I’m guessing the effected engines have similar dates of manufacture.


Ah ok thanks for the info. Then it makes sense of course. Problem found, Problem hopefully solved. The inspection will then also show if it is a one off with the V2500 or if there is an underlying problem.
 
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scbriml
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect and re-check IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:20 pm

Polot wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
I wonder if the FAA already knews what to look for. Inspecting is definetely a good thing but if you do not know what caused the engine failure it does not help a lot.


I'm guessing they're ordering a superficial borescope inspection, searching for obvious cracks. But you're right, they'll need to know more before any further specific actions are required, if at all.
It could just be a freak occurrence. V2500 have been pretty reliable until now. Not sure how they compare to the seemingly indestructible CFM56, but they're quite up there I'm sure.

According to the actual AD (found on FAA’s website) the high pressure turbine 1st stage disk with certain serial numbers installed on specific (by serial number) engines must be removed from service, and investigation into cause of failure is still ongoing.

It doesn’t sound like this is actually affecting most V2500 aircraft, only a dozen or so engines. I’m guessing the effected engines have similar dates of manufacture.


Indeed, only eleven engines listed in the AD.

https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guid ... rgency.pdf

Engine Serial Number, HPT 1st-Stage Disk Serial Number
V10443 PKLBR73268
V10976 PKLBR73270
V11303 PKLBR38359
V11490 PKLBR38979
V12265 PKLBR73289
V15638 PKLBR37445
V15686 PKLBSC8047
V16372 PKLBR73861
V16570 PKLBR38629
V16468 PKLBR38981
V16622 PKLBR73862
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calstanford
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect and re-check IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:11 pm

Well thankfully those are self-grounding these days anyways.
 
kalvado
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect and re-check IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:03 pm

scbriml wrote:
Polot wrote:
Francoflier wrote:

I'm guessing they're ordering a superficial borescope inspection, searching for obvious cracks. But you're right, they'll need to know more before any further specific actions are required, if at all.
It could just be a freak occurrence. V2500 have been pretty reliable until now. Not sure how they compare to the seemingly indestructible CFM56, but they're quite up there I'm sure.

According to the actual AD (found on FAA’s website) the high pressure turbine 1st stage disk with certain serial numbers installed on specific (by serial number) engines must be removed from service, and investigation into cause of failure is still ongoing.

It doesn’t sound like this is actually affecting most V2500 aircraft, only a dozen or so engines. I’m guessing the effected engines have similar dates of manufacture.


Indeed, only eleven engines listed in the AD.

https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guid ... rgency.pdf

Engine Serial Number, HPT 1st-Stage Disk Serial Number
V10443 PKLBR73268
V10976 PKLBR73270
V11303 PKLBR38359
V11490 PKLBR38979
V12265 PKLBR73289
V15638 PKLBR37445
V15686 PKLBSC8047
V16372 PKLBR73861
V16570 PKLBR38629
V16468 PKLBR38981
V16622 PKLBR73862

I wonder how this can be a single batch with serial numbers all over the place. Or there is something else in common between these disks?
 
argentinevol98
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect and re-check IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:48 pm

kalvado wrote:
I wonder how this can be a single batch with serial numbers all over the place. Or there is something else in common between these disks?


Perhaps it has something to do with the manufacturing process used on those disks or maybe something to do with the specific raw materials used on those serial numbers? That could be the case. If IAE has good, detailed records about every little thing going on with each serial number I would imagine the FAA found some link between all of those specific engines.
"He sospechado alguna vez que la única cosa sin misterio es la felicidad, porque se justifica por sí sola"-Jorge Luis Borges
 
tu204
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect and re-check IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:50 pm

argentinevol98 wrote:
kalvado wrote:
I wonder how this can be a single batch with serial numbers all over the place. Or there is something else in common between these disks?


Perhaps it has something to do with the manufacturing process used on those disks or maybe something to do with the specific raw materials used on those serial numbers? That could be the case. If IAE has good, detailed records about every little thing going on with each serial number I would imagine the FAA found some link between all of those specific engines.


I am gonna guess that the turbine disks were made in one batch, and then those disks were installed on different, not necessarily sequential engines which are now listed.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
cat3appr50
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect 11 IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:11 pm

IMO, this is a big deal for a 7 year old aircraft, relative to an engine HP turbine uncontained failure at high speed (high energy) on takeoff. I find it incredible that the airline owner, VCAA, and others as reported noted, and surely after an inspection, that this was only a tire failure causing damage to the engine cowling, and not the very critical and dangerous failure of the IAE engine HP turbine. How could one miss this root cause originally, and not correct the initial reporting of same before the US FAA presented it in an EAD?
 
strfyr51
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect and re-check IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:23 pm

Francoflier wrote:
FluidFlow wrote:
I wonder if the FAA already knews what to look for. Inspecting is definetely a good thing but if you do not know what caused the engine failure it does not help a lot.


I'm guessing they're ordering a superficial borescope inspection, searching for obvious cracks. But you're right, they'll need to know more before any further specific actions are required, if at all.
It could just be a freak occurrence. V2500 have been pretty reliable until now. Not sure how they compare to the seemingly indestructible CFM56, but they're quite up there I'm sure.



. I've worked on the IAEV2500 is Very reliable. as much as the CFM56. I've worked with and on Both of them and would take a fleet of either. I've worked on the CFM-56 since the -2 on the DC8-71 and progressed through the -7 on the 737. I
worked on the IAE V2500 since United got the A320/A319 and never found them lacking in any way. So? Both engines rate a 4.0 in my book. My only Caveat?
I've seen a CFM stay on wing for 43,000 Hours, and have only seen a V2500 remain on wing for 32,000 hours so far, But that may have been exceeded since I retired in 2016.
 
argentinevol98
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect and re-check IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:37 pm

tu204 wrote:
I am gonna guess that the turbine disks were made in one batch, and then those disks were installed on different, not necessarily sequential engines which are now listed.


Good thought. That'd make a lot of sense.
"He sospechado alguna vez que la única cosa sin misterio es la felicidad, porque se justifica por sí sola"-Jorge Luis Borges
 
strfyr51
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect 11 IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:55 pm

So? My question is? exactly what was the failure? Was it an internal failure of the engine core? Or ? Was the engine Reverser cowl not locked properly? Uf you're ever seen the IAE reverser cowl not locked properly? Then the failure looks catastrophic. that cowl and reverser was damaged top, Bottom, front, and Back.
without us seeing down the core or up the tailpipe? it could be anything including Foreign Object Damage form the runway for all we know. There are quite a few
SDR's regarding the V2500 reverser and Cowl Latches. And We've fixed quite a few ourselves at United. But now since it's an Required inspection Item? (RII) in the USA? We see far fewer of them. I have no idea how it's handled in Viet Nam.
 
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Antaras
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect 11 IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:43 am

cat3appr50 wrote:
IMO, this is a big deal for a 7 year old aircraft, relative to an engine HP turbine uncontained failure at high speed (high energy) on takeoff. I find it incredible that the airline owner, VCAA, and others as reported noted, and surely after an inspection, that this was only a tire failure causing damage to the engine cowling, and not the very critical and dangerous failure of the IAE engine HP turbine. How could one miss this root cause originally, and not correct the initial reporting of same before the US FAA presented it in an EAD?


There are numbers of confusing news in Vietnam. Some said that the tire explosion damaged the engine. Some other said that the engine explosion made the tired busted?
I found an image from Tinh Tế shows that it was just a flat tire, and it wasn't blown
Image

It seems impossible for that flat tire to blown a big piece of the engine away:
Image
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tu204
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect 11 IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:50 am

Antaras wrote:
cat3appr50 wrote:
IMO, this is a big deal for a 7 year old aircraft, relative to an engine HP turbine uncontained failure at high speed (high energy) on takeoff. I find it incredible that the airline owner, VCAA, and others as reported noted, and surely after an inspection, that this was only a tire failure causing damage to the engine cowling, and not the very critical and dangerous failure of the IAE engine HP turbine. How could one miss this root cause originally, and not correct the initial reporting of same before the US FAA presented it in an EAD?


There are numbers of confusing news in Vietnam. Some said that the tire explosion damaged the engine. Some other said that the engine explosion made the tired busted?
I found an image from Tinh Tế shows that it was just a flat tire, and it wasn't blown
Image

It seems impossible for that flat tire to blown a big piece of the engine away:
Image


My thoughts too when I saw the Avherald event report.

Blown tire and an engine with a huge hole in the side of it (on the outside side) like that? Something must have been lost in the translation! Even if the nosewheel burst like that, there's no way it could have hit the side of the engine and caused a turbine disk to burst, there's shielding to prevent metal blades from getting ejected, which would easily hold shreds from causing any significant damage.

If we are supposing the pieces of tire got injested, also unlikely they went through two compressors, the combustion chamber and then made their way to the High Pressure Turbine and destroyed it ...
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
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Antaras
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect 11 IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:02 am

strfyr51 wrote:
So? My question is? exactly what was the failure? Was it an internal failure of the engine core? Or ? Was the engine Reverser cowl not locked properly? Uf you're ever seen the IAE reverser cowl not locked properly? Then the failure looks catastrophic. that cowl and reverser was damaged top, Bottom, front, and Back.
without us seeing down the core or up the tailpipe? it could be anything including Foreign Object Damage form the runway for all we know. There are quite a few
SDR's regarding the V2500 reverser and Cowl Latches. And We've fixed quite a few ourselves at United. But now since it's an Required inspection Item? (RII) in the USA? We see far fewer of them. I have no idea how it's handled in Viet Nam.


The only thing we knew here is that the engine couldn't be blown by a piece of tire.
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Antaras
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect and re-check IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:05 am

scbriml wrote:
Polot wrote:
Francoflier wrote:

I'm guessing they're ordering a superficial borescope inspection, searching for obvious cracks. But you're right, they'll need to know more before any further specific actions are required, if at all.
It could just be a freak occurrence. V2500 have been pretty reliable until now. Not sure how they compare to the seemingly indestructible CFM56, but they're quite up there I'm sure.

According to the actual AD (found on FAA’s website) the high pressure turbine 1st stage disk with certain serial numbers installed on specific (by serial number) engines must be removed from service, and investigation into cause of failure is still ongoing.

It doesn’t sound like this is actually affecting most V2500 aircraft, only a dozen or so engines. I’m guessing the effected engines have similar dates of manufacture.


Indeed, only eleven engines listed in the AD.

https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guid ... rgency.pdf

Engine Serial Number, HPT 1st-Stage Disk Serial Number
V10443 PKLBR73268
V10976 PKLBR73270
V11303 PKLBR38359
V11490 PKLBR38979
V12265 PKLBR73289
V15638 PKLBR37445
V15686 PKLBSC8047
V16372 PKLBR73861
V16570 PKLBR38629
V16468 PKLBR38981
V16622 PKLBR73862


Do anyone know that which airframes are/were installed with those HPT 1st-stage disk?
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WayexTDI
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect 11 IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:29 pm

Antaras wrote:
cat3appr50 wrote:
IMO, this is a big deal for a 7 year old aircraft, relative to an engine HP turbine uncontained failure at high speed (high energy) on takeoff. I find it incredible that the airline owner, VCAA, and others as reported noted, and surely after an inspection, that this was only a tire failure causing damage to the engine cowling, and not the very critical and dangerous failure of the IAE engine HP turbine. How could one miss this root cause originally, and not correct the initial reporting of same before the US FAA presented it in an EAD?


There are numbers of confusing news in Vietnam. Some said that the tire explosion damaged the engine. Some other said that the engine explosion made the tired busted?
I found an image from Tinh Tế shows that it was just a flat tire, and it wasn't blown
Image

It seems impossible for that flat tire to blown a big piece of the engine away:
Image

Time for that inner tire to be changed anyway, cord is showing badly...
Did the engine explosion cut a brake line? What's that puddle of fluid?
 
o0OOO0oChris
Posts: 114
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect 11 IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:36 pm

cat3appr50 wrote:
IMO, this is a big deal for a 7 year old aircraft, relative to an engine HP turbine uncontained failure at high speed (high energy) on takeoff.

That doesn't necessarily mean that the engine is 6 years old.
 
sgbroimp
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect 11 IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:57 pm

Well, they will start with that group of engines, but that does not mean that after their findings, case closed. They could determine there to be a need to test others, no?
 
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Antaras
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect 11 IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:53 am

WayexTDI wrote:
Time for that inner tire to be changed anyway, cord is showing badly...
Did the engine explosion cut a brake line? What's that puddle of fluid?

Sorry, I can't find any other picture to prove that. Seems that VN not allowing there staffs/technicians to "leak" any picture to prove that the brake line was cuttex.

However, I do believe that is the brake fluid.
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ei146
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect 11 IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:58 am

WayexTDI wrote:
Time for that inner tire to be changed anyway, cord is showing badly...
Did the engine explosion cut a brake line? What's that puddle of fluid?


The worn tire could be a direct result of the heavy braking at RTO. As you can see in the picture it left some rubber on the runway. And do we know if they sprayed the brakes with water for cooling? This would explain the puddle.
 
WayexTDI
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Re: FAA orders carriers to inspect 11 IAE-powered A320s after VN920 incident

Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:37 pm

ei146 wrote:
WayexTDI wrote:
Time for that inner tire to be changed anyway, cord is showing badly...
Did the engine explosion cut a brake line? What's that puddle of fluid?


The worn tire could be a direct result of the heavy braking at RTO. As you can see in the picture it left some rubber on the runway. And do we know if they sprayed the brakes with water for cooling? This would explain the puddle.

ABS wouldn't make just that one area of cords exposed. The rubber marks on the runway show that the ABS was working fine and consistently.

As far as water sprayed to cool the brakes, it would have left a much bigger puddle that the little one that's seen.

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