shorya
Topic Author
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:27 pm

Did Lockheed ever design competing aircraft to the 727/737/DC9?

Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:51 am

Hi everybody i was wondering if anybody knew if lockheed ever thought or even designed equivalents for the 727/737/DC9 or the 707/DC8?

Thanks & Regards
Shorya
Last edited by atcsundevil on Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Non descriptive title
 
twaconnie
Posts: 237
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:18 pm

Re: Did Lockheed ever design competing aircraft to the 727/737/DC9?

Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:12 pm

I'm not sure but I would have to say no. They went from the Electra to the L-1011.
 
User avatar
northstardc4m
Posts: 3346
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 11:23 am

Re: Did Lockheed ever design competing aircraft to the 727/737/DC9?

Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:47 pm

The L188 basically was the Lockheed attempt at the small to medium market. It got there first for the US and of not for the engine mount issues it might of held more of that market rather than opening the door for the 727 ect...

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
shorya
Topic Author
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:27 pm

Re: Did Lockheed ever design competing aircraft to the 727/737/DC9?

Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:52 pm

northstardc4m wrote:
The L188 basically was the Lockheed attempt at the small to medium market. It got there first for the US and of not for the engine mount issues it might of held more of that market rather than opening the door for the 727 ect...

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

Ohh, got it

Thanks & Regards
Shorya
 
User avatar
Spacepope
Posts: 4552
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 1999 11:10 am

Re: Did Lockheed ever design competing aircraft to the 727/737/DC9?

Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:56 pm

Yes, they designed the L-193 and actually won the USAF tanker competition with it back in the 1950s. The KC-135, which is sorta like a half cousin to the 707, is the interim tanker, constructed firstly just as a stopgap till Lockheed could get their house in order.

They never did.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_L-193
The last of the famous international playboys
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 10147
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Did Lockheed ever design competing aircraft to the 727/737/DC9?

Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:39 pm

northstardc4m wrote:
The L188 basically was the Lockheed attempt at the small to medium market. It got there first for the US and of not for the engine mount issues it might of held more of that market rather than opening the door for the 727 ect...

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

The Electra was always doomed because it was a prop. Even without its initial design issues the 727 was always ultimately going to crush it because by that point airlines were all in when it came to jets.
 
jimatkins
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:57 pm

Re: Did Lockheed ever design competing aircraft to the 727/737/DC9?

Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:41 pm

When I was a kid, I remember seeing in the Science Museum in Exposition Park, a set of desk models donated by the LA area companies showing their products. There was a Lockheed transport (don't remember any tanker booms or pods) with podded engines trailing behind the wing on pylons, kind of like a backwards B-47 dual engine pod. Never seen this anywhere else. Of course that was when I was in fifth grade in 1965!
 
shorya
Topic Author
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:27 pm

Re: Did Lockheed ever design competing aircraft to the 727/737/DC9?

Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:49 pm

I joined this community yesterday & got to know many things today, actually i was gathering info for my blog. You guys are really amazing thanks a lot.
 
shorya
Topic Author
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:27 pm

Re: Did Lockheed ever design competing aircraft to the 727/737/DC9?

Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:43 am

jimatkins wrote:
When I was a kid, I remember seeing in the Science Museum in Exposition Park, a set of desk models donated by the LA area companies showing their products. There was a Lockheed transport blog (don't remember any tanker booms or pods) with podded engines trailing behind the wing on pylons, kind of like a backwards B-47 dual engine pod. Never seen this anywhere else. Of course that was when I was in fifth grade in 1965!


Thanks for sharing this, I will add this on my blog.
 
Max Q
Posts: 8039
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: Did Lockheed ever design competing aircraft to the 727/737/DC9?

Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:04 am

It was kind of amazing Lockheed went from the Electra to the L1011 with nothing bridging that huge gap in capacity, performance and technology


Of course their incredible engineering talent and superb build quality could pretty much guarantee any manufacturing issues could be solved


Unfortunately that didn’t lead to commercial success
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
User avatar
Phosphorus
Posts: 815
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:38 am

Re: Did Lockheed ever design competing aircraft to the 727/737/DC9?

Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:07 pm

Max Q wrote:
It was kind of amazing Lockheed went from the Electra to the L1011 with nothing bridging that huge gap in capacity, performance and technology


Of course their incredible engineering talent and superb build quality could pretty much guarantee any manufacturing issues could be solved


Unfortunately that didn’t lead to commercial success


Probably it was these two factors:
1) they bet on turboprop for medium haul, and it went the wrong way (who could have thought the public would immediately equate "jets=modern", "props=ancient"? Even RAND Corporation was famously predicting commercial jets to be a dead-end)
2) they churned out a marvel of L-1011 and the market did not appreciate it enough to make it a commercial success.
that convinced Lockheed Martin to give up on airliners.

They decided to turn all their attention to where engineering talent and quality would be appreciated -- defense sector. At some point (maybe still is), I remember LM logo was having a slogan "We never forget who we're working for" as its part.

The strategy appears to have worked for them well.
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 4892
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Did Lockheed ever design competing aircraft to the 727/737/DC9?

Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:41 pm

Let’s see how good defense is. Boeing and Lockheed competed for the HL-X contract. Lockheed’s C-5 won, they sold 121 frames over about 20 years. Boeing’s design was redone as a commercial plane and sold 1500-ish frames over 40 years. Yeah, good business the government.
 
User avatar
Phosphorus
Posts: 815
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:38 am

Re: Did Lockheed ever design competing aircraft to the 727/737/DC9?

Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:06 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Let’s see how good defense is. Boeing and Lockheed competed for the HL-X contract. Lockheed’s C-5 won, they sold 121 frames over about 20 years. Boeing’s design was redone as a commercial plane and sold 1500-ish frames over 40 years. Yeah, good business the government.


They might have preferred to have both gov work and commercial. Commercial was eluding them, leading to losses. Relaunching commercial into a bloodbath of deregulated US air transport? With widebodies, in a fight between Boeing, MD and Airbus? Or into narrowbody sector, with Boeing, MD, Sud Aviation, Dassault, Fokker, Avro/BAC/Hawker, Fairchild Dornier, Airbus, and whatnot? They learned that they build good product at a high cost, and there were not enough people to pay the price that cover that cost. While government provided steady income.

Now, LM's market cap is what? 300+ bn$? ~5bn$ annual free cash flow. Without the trouble of dealing with vagaries of commercial transport sector.

Unromantic, I know. Still, bread on the table. And butter. And some caviar.
AN4 A40 L4T TU3 TU5 IL6 ILW I93 F50 F70 100 146 ARJ AT7 DH4 L10 CRJ ERJ E90 E95 DC-9 MD-8X YK4 YK2 SF3 S20 319 320 321 332 333 343 346 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 744 74M 757 767 777
Ceterum autem censeo, Moscovia esse delendam
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 4892
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Did Lockheed ever design competing aircraft to the 727/737/DC9?

Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:24 pm

I actually heard that comment from Lockheed’s C-5 chief engineer. Yes, they’ve done quite well by sticking with core competencies.
 
User avatar
JetBuddy
Posts: 2524
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:04 am

Re: Did Lockheed ever design competing aircraft to the 727/737/DC9?

Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:36 pm

Spacepope wrote:
Yes, they designed the L-193 and actually won the USAF tanker competition with it back in the 1950s. The KC-135, which is sorta like a half cousin to the 707, is the interim tanker, constructed firstly just as a stopgap till Lockheed could get their house in order.

They never did.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_L-193


Wow I've never heard of this one. Interesting.
 
tomaheath
Posts: 606
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:58 pm

Re: Did Lockheed ever design competing aircraft to the 727/737/DC9?

Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:05 pm

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N140 ... /KMHV/KMHV
There just happens to be a L1011 in the air now.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos