firemansparky
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Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:42 pm

A glimmer of good news in the aviation world. The Antonov AN 225 is flying again after an overhaul.


https://www.popularmechanics.com/flight ... st-flight/
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:46 pm

cool

Whatever happened to the idea of building the second example? And even the wild ideas of buildings tens of them in China.
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Bricktop
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:13 pm

For me, this is the one plane in the world I want to spot. This is excellent news, and so now there's a chance I will get to see it, and however slim it's less impossible now..
 
jimatkins
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:26 pm

I missed a chance to see this one at ONT about 15 years ago- I was sick as a dog with bronchitis/pneumonia. That's what it took to keep me away. Come on big girl! Sunny SoCal beckons!
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Wed Mar 25, 2020 11:30 pm

I remember working for LH in IAH and walking from the arrival gate to baggage claim. I looked outside at the perfect time to watch her touch down by sheer coincidence.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
N8302A
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:01 am

Way back in the late '80s I was arriving at BDL (Bradley International Airport-Windsor Locks, Connecticut) an she just happened to be visiting around the time of Chernobyl to pick up supplies for the many millions affected by that disaster. Fortunately, tours were available prior to loading up her cargo bay. Incredible sight to see up close. An external data plate said it all....Max gross cargo weight: 250,000 kg/592,000 lbs...Max gross takeoff weight: 600,000 kg/1,320,000 lbs...unreal!
 
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ClipperYankee
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:31 am

It flew over my boat while fishing on a lake in Ontario, Canada, a few years ago. Very impressive. Something that large seems to move through the sky very slowly and takes a long time to fade from view.
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Northwest1988
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:17 am

Saw it at GSP in 2007. Definitely a very special moment! When was the last time this plane flew?
 
DFW17L
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:50 am

When that bad boy diverts because of weather at IAH, it sounds like ten freight trains are flying over the house. In some ways, I miss the Cold War.
 
gabik001
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:02 am

I missed her in 2004 at MKE and 2012 at PIA... Saw her overflying ORD in 2015.
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737max8
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:28 am

Northwest1988 wrote:
Saw it at GSP in 2007. Definitely a very special moment! When was the last time this plane flew?


I read October of 2018.
The thoughts and opinions expressed in my comments do not represent that of any airline or affiliate.
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744SPX
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:37 am

They ought to replace 1-for-1 those D-18T's with GEnx-2b's before they go out of production. Probably increase payload-range by 25-30%
 
andrej
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:56 am

Glad to know that An-225 is back! I had a pleasure seeing her in Prague in 1989. It is a massive plane.

N8302A wrote:
An external data plate said it all....Max gross cargo weight: 250,000 kg/592,000 lbs...Max gross takeoff weight: 600,000 kg/1,320,000 lbs...unreal!


Anybody knows its effective range at the Max Gross TO weight?

Thanks!
Andrej
 
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Moose135
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:19 am

I got a FlightAware alert on her today, and I thought it was a glitch in their system. Glad to see her in the air again. Hope to spot her one of these days.
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
Antarius
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:22 am

TWA772LR wrote:
I remember working for LH in IAH and walking from the arrival gate to baggage claim. I looked outside at the perfect time to watch her touch down by sheer coincidence.


I got to see it at IAH as well, pure chance that I was flying in that day.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
ATCtower
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:36 am

I’ll echo the giddy feelers out for this one.

It’s a single type airframe of the largest powered aircraft ever built. I would give a lot to see her in person and photograph her even as a lowly amateur.

I wish they published a schedule months in advance where she’ll be cause I would travel the world to see her.
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flee
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:24 am

Image20150516_KUL_UR-82060_1200_00 by f lee, on Flickr

I wonder how much more field performance and increased payload we can get if we slapped on six derated GEnX-2B engines to this aircraft?
 
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flee
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:38 am

744SPX wrote:
They ought to replace 1-for-1 those D-18T's with GEnx-2b's before they go out of production. Probably increase payload-range by 25-30%

They could also use a derated (and/or smaller diameter fan) RR Trent 7000, should GE cease production.

But it is probably more interesting to see if the two outermost engines can be dropped and four RR Trent XWBs get installed instead. Fuel economy would be so much better and the cost of flying this behemoth of an aircraft would be so much lower!

Not sure if there are any difficult avionics, aerodynamic or structural challenges to this kind of modification!
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:16 am

DFW17L wrote:
In some ways, I miss the Cold War.

Certainly one of the odder statements I've ever seen here. :hypnotized:


flee wrote:
Not sure if there are any difficult avionics, aerodynamic or structural challenges to this kind of modification!

Just a few.........

I mean, you're only completely changing the weights, balance, surface aerodynamics, wing reinforcement requirements, pylon, plumbing, fuel flow, thrust distribution, etc of an aircraft designed nearly a half-century ago.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
dkjoe
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:45 am

Just a few changes like a well-known, but currently grounded :| , American half-century old narrow body ;)
 
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zkojq
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:08 am

If you can reengine a DC8, you can reengine an AN225. Whether it's worthwhile is another question, especially given the high capital cost of six new engines and the aircraft's low utilisation rate.
First to fly the 787-9
 
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Antaras
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:22 am

How about an another An225 but having composite-wings and 3 pairs of GEnx-2B???
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firemansparky
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:43 am

How about the second AN 225 built with composite wings, 4 GE-90 engines, and a 787 cockpit?
 
744SPX
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:20 pm

The An-225 was upgraded some years back and currently has a 640 metric ton/1,411,000 lb Max TOW
 
744SPX
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:22 pm

zkojq wrote:
If you can reengine a DC8, you can reengine an AN225. Whether it's worthwhile is another question, especially given the high capital cost of six new engines and the aircraft's low utilisation rate.


True.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:29 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
I mean, you're only completely changing the weights, balance, surface aerodynamics, wing reinforcement requirements, pylon, plumbing, fuel flow, thrust distribution, etc of an aircraft designed nearly a half-century ago.

It happened with the C5. Not to say it wouldnt be difficult and expensive, but not insurmountable.
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Antaras
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:51 pm

firemansparky wrote:
How about the second AN 225 built with composite wings, 4 GE-90 engines, and a 787 cockpit?

The GE90 is quite obsolete now.
How about two GE9X (or Trent XWB-97 which powers the A350-1000)?
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Antaras
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:59 pm

744SPX wrote:
zkojq wrote:
If you can reengine a DC8, you can reengine an AN225. Whether it's worthwhile is another question, especially given the high capital cost of six new engines and the aircraft's low utilisation rate.


True.

Building some dozens of new An225 with bunches of improvements should be a better choice than install some new engines on a 31 years old airframe.
"low utilization rate?" Nah I don't think so. This aircraft will be useful for both non-commercial purposes (as a ultra-heavy military aircraft) or commercial aircraft. Not to mention its original purpose:
The Antonov An-225 was designed to airlift the Energia rocket's boosters and the Buran orbiter for the Soviet space program. It was developed as a replacement for the Myasishchev VM-T. The An-225's original mission and objectives are almost identical to that of the United States' Shuttle Carrier Aircraft.

Wikipedia

SPACE MISSIONS
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zkojq
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:31 pm

Antaras wrote:
Building some dozens of new An225 with bunches of improvements should be a better choice than install some new engines on a 31 years old airframe.
"low utilization rate?" Nah I don't think so. This aircraft will be useful for both non-commercial purposes (as a ultra-heavy military aircraft) or commercial aircraft. Not to mention its original purpose:


The AN225 as it is has a very low utilisation rate. Building more of them would result in a lower utilisation rate still, unless somehow that increases the demand for it. The AN225 is for special missions and outsized cargo - all the regular stuff can be flown much more efficiently in a 747F or 777F. Most outsized stuff can be done by an AN124 anyway.
First to fly the 787-9
 
744SPX
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:39 pm

Antaras wrote:
firemansparky wrote:
How about the second AN 225 built with composite wings, 4 GE-90 engines, and a 787 cockpit?

The GE90 is quite obsolete now.
How about two GE9X (or Trent XWB-97 which powers the A350-1000)?


FOUR GE9X. 2 wouldn't be nearly enough. The 225 is nearly twice the size of the 777-9X. In fact proposed Russian upgrades involved adding two more D-18T's for a total takeoff thrust of around 412,000 lbs (called it the An-325) So 4 GE9X would be about perfect. Although 6 GEnx-2b's would make more sense from an installation standpoint using existing plumbing.
 
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flee
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:11 pm

Antaras wrote:
firemansparky wrote:
How about the second AN 225 built with composite wings, 4 GE-90 engines, and a 787 cockpit?

The GE90 is quite obsolete now.
How about two GE9X (or Trent XWB-97 which powers the A350-1000)?

No way - if the aircraft experiences single engine failure, there is no way it would be able to take off on a single GE9X!
 
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crimsonchin
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:39 pm

Surely if you're going to replace the engines, you have to factor in clearance and what the wings can hold?

I know it's top-mounted, but using a GE9X or TXWB, both of which are probably 2x te size of the current engines the plane uses (this might be inaccurate, I didn't check the actual figures) surely creates some issues with how far down the engines hang and if the wing supports it?
 
schernov
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:21 pm

Here is a link to a cockpit take off video
https://korrespondent.net/ukraine/39874 ... -225-mryia
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:39 pm

With the rate at which this thing is utilized, there is pretty much zero chance that any re-engining would pay for itself. And, if you were going to re-engine, you'd want a cheap and easily serviceable workhorse like a CF6-80C2, not a newer and much more expensive engine with exotic materials that is primarily designed to eke out a bit better SFC for very-high-utilization passenger carriers.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:54 pm

Does this plane have a navigator (Third Officer) and a radio operator?
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:28 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
I mean, you're only completely changing the weights, balance, surface aerodynamics, wing reinforcement requirements, pylon, plumbing, fuel flow, thrust distribution, etc of an aircraft designed nearly a half-century ago.

It happened with the C5. Not to say it wouldnt be difficult and expensive, but not insurmountable.

No one made any inquiry nor claim of "insurmountable."

The question that the statement was in response to, asked would changes be "difficult"... the answer to which is, of course, yes.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
emadcat
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:51 pm

I saw it at Melbourne Florida MLB once, while just up the road at Cape Canaveral was the NASA 747 Shuttle transporter collecting one of the Shuttles to take to a Museum. Why oh why didn't anyone think to fly the Nasa 747 to MLB and park them both nose to nose for the one and only time in history? Sadly never to be repeated :(
 
firemansparky
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:57 am

Antonov Company has posted a short video on Twitter of a test flight.The only upgrade revealed is the installation of "the Ukrainian-made power-plant control system". The video can be found here:

https://interestingengineering.com/the- ... once-again

Also, found this brochure they published about the AN 225 and other aircraft they operate. Interesting read for the large Antonov cargo aircraft fans:

https://www.antonov-airlines.com/wp-con ... ochure.pdf
 
firemansparky
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:37 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Does this plane have a navigator (Third Officer) and a radio operator?


I believe the flight crew consists of pilot, co-pilot, navigator, radio operator, and two flight engineers.
 
FluidFlow
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:42 am

firemansparky wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Does this plane have a navigator (Third Officer) and a radio operator?


I believe the flight crew consists of pilot, co-pilot, navigator, radio operator, and two flight engineers.


I thought that there is also always a cargo specialist (sorry cant remember the precise designation) on board.

Anyway it is an amazing bird. The sound during take off is just impressive. Luckily it was a really nice day back in 2013 in ZRH. I hope it will be back one day. Fingers crossed someone needs a big turbine again that can only be flown in.
 
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flee
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:16 am

firemansparky wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Does this plane have a navigator (Third Officer) and a radio operator?

I believe the flight crew consists of pilot, co-pilot, navigator, radio operator, and two flight engineers.

Yes, there are six cockpit crew and numerous other crew, including mechanics. They also carry spare parts on board - so if anything goes wrong during a mission, there is support onsite!
 
andrej
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:29 am

firemansparky wrote:
Also, found this brochure they published about the AN 225 and other aircraft they operate. Interesting read for the large Antonov cargo aircraft fans:

https://www.antonov-airlines.com/wp-con ... ochure.pdf


Thanks for this link!
 
firemansparky
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:08 am

flee wrote:
firemansparky wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Does this plane have a navigator (Third Officer) and a radio operator?

I believe the flight crew consists of pilot, co-pilot, navigator, radio operator, and two flight engineers.

Yes, there are six cockpit crew and numerous other crew, including mechanics. They also carry spare parts on board - so if anything goes wrong during a mission, there is support onsite!


Thanks flee, I should have included them. I read that there are up to 20 additional personnel (load masters and mechanics).

I have been trying to find details on the overhaul, but with no luck. I did find a CNN article about the AN 225 that includes a photo gallery of the second incomplete frame:

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/anto ... index.html

You're welcome, andrej. As you can probably tell, this is one of my favorite aircraft.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:44 am

744SPX wrote:
Antaras wrote:
firemansparky wrote:
How about the second AN 225 built with composite wings, 4 GE-90 engines, and a 787 cockpit?

The GE90 is quite obsolete now.
How about two GE9X (or Trent XWB-97 which powers the A350-1000)?


FOUR GE9X. 2 wouldn't be nearly enough. The 225 is nearly twice the size of the 777-9X. In fact proposed Russian upgrades involved adding two more D-18T's for a total takeoff thrust of around 412,000 lbs (called it the An-325) So 4 GE9X would be about perfect. Although 6 GEnx-2b's would make more sense from an installation standpoint using existing plumbing.


Doubtful they would reduce the number of engines. Remember, they have to take an engine failure into consideration. It would also lose some wing bending relief from the missing outer engines and rudder authority might be an issue too.

The Trent 700, CF6 or GEnx-2b look good on paper, but actually weigh a fair bit more than the D-18T. The D-18T "only" weighs 4100 kg. The CF6-80E weighs 5090 kg, Trent 700 is 6160 kg and the Genx-2B is 5620 kg. That's anywhere from 6 to 12,5 tons of additional weight to be subtracted from the payload. They do of course provide fuel savings that make up for it, but this plane is all about lifting as much payload as possible, not necessarily over long distances or economic prices.
 
bevan7
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:06 pm

firemansparky wrote:
Antonov Company has posted a short video on Twitter of a test flight.The only upgrade revealed is the installation of "the Ukrainian-made power-plant control system". The video can be found here:

https://interestingengineering.com/the- ... once-again

Also, found this brochure they published about the AN 225 and other aircraft they operate. Interesting read for the large Antonov cargo aircraft fans:

https://www.antonov-airlines.com/wp-con ... ochure.pdf


What an interesting brochure. Thanks for that.
 
reltney
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:28 pm

Fireman sparky said it. There are 2. One was never finished but there is a study to finish it.

Hope they do. The 225 comes to Houston often. Been thru it once at 2 am when it came for oil rig parts.

Cheers
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
OUTLAW KNIVES.

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sailsail
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:06 pm

flee wrote:
Antaras wrote:
firemansparky wrote:
How about the second AN 225 built with composite wings, 4 GE-90 engines, and a 787 cockpit?

The GE90 is quite obsolete now.
How about two GE9X (or Trent XWB-97 which powers the A350-1000)?

No way - if the aircraft experiences single engine failure, there is no way it would be able to take off on a single GE9X!



Bingo!
That’s the big issue with new engines on the B52 as well. The rudder and tail can’t handle the engine out.
 
S0Y
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:38 pm

Here is a great trip report for its little brother AN-124
I imagine there a quite a few similarities, particularly from the cockpit and crewing perspective https://samchui.com/2020/02/18/flying-v ... n45h4hKhaQ
 
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ojjunior
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:28 pm

S0Y wrote:
Here is a great trip report for its little brother AN-124
I imagine there a quite a few similarities, particularly from the cockpit and crewing perspective https://samchui.com/2020/02/18/flying-v ... n45h4hKhaQ

Very nice. Had no idea about passenger area. Especially where it is.
Would love to see a similar material for the 225.
C'mon Sam, you can do it.
 
744SPX
Posts: 121
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Re: Antonov AN 225 Flies Again

Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:43 pm

VSMUT wrote:
744SPX wrote:
Antaras wrote:
The GE90 is quite obsolete now.
How about two GE9X (or Trent XWB-97 which powers the A350-1000)?


FOUR GE9X. 2 wouldn't be nearly enough. The 225 is nearly twice the size of the 777-9X. In fact proposed Russian upgrades involved adding two more D-18T's for a total takeoff thrust of around 412,000 lbs (called it the An-325) So 4 GE9X would be about perfect. Although 6 GEnx-2b's would make more sense from an installation standpoint using existing plumbing.


Doubtful they would reduce the number of engines. Remember, they have to take an engine failure into consideration. It would also lose some wing bending relief from the missing outer engines and rudder authority might be an issue too.

The Trent 700, CF6 or GEnx-2b look good on paper, but actually weigh a fair bit more than the D-18T. The D-18T "only" weighs 4100 kg. The CF6-80E weighs 5090 kg, Trent 700 is 6160 kg and the Genx-2B is 5620 kg. That's anywhere from 6 to 12,5 tons of additional weight to be subtracted from the payload. They do of course provide fuel savings that make up for it, but this plane is all about lifting as much payload as possible, not necessarily over long distances or economic prices.


I think they could make up for the additional engine weight by removing all the external payload attachment points on top of the fuselage which probably weigh 6-12 tons and are just dead weight without Buran, not to mention the drag they add. 6 engines would definitely be the way to go though and the GEnx-2b would give the biggest range increase of the options mentioned.

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