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ZK-NBT
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Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:27 am

DavidJ08 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
Sounds like some services have been informed that its likely we'll be extending level 4 for another couple of weeks, by the way some services are now making moves.

But even at level 3, there won't be flights to all destinations... Stuff article today saying that not until Level 2 will Air NZ be required to fly to every destination (per the 900m loan agreement with the government).
Source: https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/120 ... ic-airline

Happy to eat my hat later on, but I'm seeing more general pessimism on the post-COVID climate, and potentially some "clean house" moves contemplated before but brought to action by COVID. ("Airways chief executive Graeme Sumner said the locations under review were those where air traffic had been low even before the outbreak." - this said to me that those locations were already not optimistic before, but have become completely unsustainable given the expected lasting impacts of COVID.)


The every destination is interesting, without the feed from International services and with the general downturn that will follow for some time some of these regional ports will surely only get 1-2 services a day that might have had 4-5 daily before? It would seem the Q300 will be around for some time then not that I was aware of any plans to get rid of them.

The article did say the airline had no plans to dispose of any aircraft yet, I’m guessing this included the widebody fleet given it also said they could look to defer or even cancel future 781s and A321s for domestic.

Some aircraft will go surely given they will be at least 30% smaller in day 12 months time, even if it’s deferring the remaining A320/321 on order while getting rid of the last regional CEOs and maybe the first 4 domestic birds which I believe come off lease in 2021, 387 pilots are being made redundant. I can’t see them needing many of the 777 fleet for a while, the 77W is good for freight maybe, well respected user said here the 772 fleet may well not fly again.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:40 am

Isn't there in any event a medium term plan to centralise most ATC with "virtual" control towers?
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
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Zkpilot
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:22 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
DavidJ08 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
Sounds like some services have been informed that its likely we'll be extending level 4 for another couple of weeks, by the way some services are now making moves.

But even at level 3, there won't be flights to all destinations... Stuff article today saying that not until Level 2 will Air NZ be required to fly to every destination (per the 900m loan agreement with the government).
Source: https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/120 ... ic-airline

Happy to eat my hat later on, but I'm seeing more general pessimism on the post-COVID climate, and potentially some "clean house" moves contemplated before but brought to action by COVID. ("Airways chief executive Graeme Sumner said the locations under review were those where air traffic had been low even before the outbreak." - this said to me that those locations were already not optimistic before, but have become completely unsustainable given the expected lasting impacts of COVID.)


The every destination is interesting, without the feed from International services and with the general downturn that will follow for some time some of these regional ports will surely only get 1-2 services a day that might have had 4-5 daily before? It would seem the Q300 will be around for some time then not that I was aware of any plans to get rid of them.

The article did say the airline had no plans to dispose of any aircraft yet, I’m guessing this included the widebody fleet given it also said they could look to defer or even cancel future 781s and A321s for domestic.

Some aircraft will go surely given they will be at least 30% smaller in day 12 months time, even if it’s deferring the remaining A320/321 on order while getting rid of the last regional CEOs and maybe the first 4 domestic birds which I believe come off lease in 2021, 387 pilots are being made redundant. I can’t see them needing many of the 777 fleet for a while, the 77W is good for freight maybe, well respected user said here the 772 fleet may well not fly again.

Certainly all remaining A320R to go.
Also agree about the early A320D aircraft (the ones without the sharklets), being domestic birds their cycles are way up there and even their hours are fairly high given their normal utilisation 15 hours a day with quick turn arounds. I think they will still be looking at new A321 for domestic (maybe delayed) especially if going forward AKL further delays the new domestic terminal (and especially if JQ pulls out). Works out cheaper to run fewer A321 than more A320 services (especially if you can put freight in the hold).
I think at least 4 of the 77E will go, they’ll probably keep the others as the costs of keeping them are minimal and fuel prices are low.
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ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:59 am

Zkpilot wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
DavidJ08 wrote:
But even at level 3, there won't be flights to all destinations... Stuff article today saying that not until Level 2 will Air NZ be required to fly to every destination (per the 900m loan agreement with the government).
Source: https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/120 ... ic-airline

Happy to eat my hat later on, but I'm seeing more general pessimism on the post-COVID climate, and potentially some "clean house" moves contemplated before but brought to action by COVID. ("Airways chief executive Graeme Sumner said the locations under review were those where air traffic had been low even before the outbreak." - this said to me that those locations were already not optimistic before, but have become completely unsustainable given the expected lasting impacts of COVID.)


The every destination is interesting, without the feed from International services and with the general downturn that will follow for some time some of these regional ports will surely only get 1-2 services a day that might have had 4-5 daily before? It would seem the Q300 will be around for some time then not that I was aware of any plans to get rid of them.

The article did say the airline had no plans to dispose of any aircraft yet, I’m guessing this included the widebody fleet given it also said they could look to defer or even cancel future 781s and A321s for domestic.

Some aircraft will go surely given they will be at least 30% smaller in day 12 months time, even if it’s deferring the remaining A320/321 on order while getting rid of the last regional CEOs and maybe the first 4 domestic birds which I believe come off lease in 2021, 387 pilots are being made redundant. I can’t see them needing many of the 777 fleet for a while, the 77W is good for freight maybe, well respected user said here the 772 fleet may well not fly again.

Certainly all remaining A320R to go.
Also agree about the early A320D aircraft (the ones without the sharklets), being domestic birds their cycles are way up there and even their hours are fairly high given their normal utilisation 15 hours a day with quick turn arounds. I think they will still be looking at new A321 for domestic (maybe delayed) especially if going forward AKL further delays the new domestic terminal (and especially if JQ pulls out). Works out cheaper to run fewer A321 than more A320 services (especially if you can put freight in the hold).
I think at least 4 of the 77E will go, they’ll probably keep the others as the costs of keeping them are minimal and fuel prices are low.


There may well be some spare Regional A320 capacity that can be used on domestic if they aren’t needed on International or wide bodies can cover.

I hope airlines give up on this US frequency thing where you run flights on the same route every 15 mins when you could use a larger aircraft every 30 mins, I’m not saying NZ should use a 777 every 2 hrs btw on domestic. I’m sure A321s will be needed in future. Good point on JQ, if they dropped out then the A321 would be needed sooner maybe.

I agree on the 77E tbh, pretty sure there are also 3 leased 77Ws, I still wonder if getting out of those 3 77Ws and 4 leased 772s early is how they will go, who knows? Probably not even NZ know yet, but I can’t see how 387 pilots get layed off and no aircraft leaving. This thing isn’t going to end quickly at all.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:07 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
I hope airlines give up on this US frequency thing where you run flights on the same route every 15 mins when you could use a larger aircraft every 30 mins, I’m not saying NZ should use a 777 every 2 hrs btw on domestic. I’m sure A321s will be needed in future. Good point on JQ, if they dropped out then the A321 would be needed sooner maybe.

Did NZ ever run 15 minute frequencies? I thought AKL-WLG and AKL-CHC were both half hourly during the peak and hourly off-peak?

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
wstakl
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:21 am

Is it odd that NZ are still allowing international bookings in these uncertain times? I need to get to Japan in October and December and can still book online.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:27 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
I hope airlines give up on this US frequency thing where you run flights on the same route every 15 mins when you could use a larger aircraft every 30 mins, I’m not saying NZ should use a 777 every 2 hrs btw on domestic. I’m sure A321s will be needed in future. Good point on JQ, if they dropped out then the A321 would be needed sooner maybe.

Did NZ ever run 15 minute frequencies? I thought AKL-WLG and AKL-CHC were both half hourly during the peak and hourly off-peak?

V/F


I don’t think so, I get more frequency at either end of the business day if larger aircraft aren’t available, I was more using the US as an example, I may be off btw. QF did on SYD-MEL particularly run 15 mins apart more so once the 763 was retired.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:29 am

While a slightly different business need. It begs the question. If WLG can grow post COVID-19 why is it so infeasible for AKL to do the same.

WLG will only pull long haul flights once AKL is nearing meaningful capacity or as an alternative while in addition to AKL. (i.e it's highly unlikely we will see a new carrier in WLG without having a presence in AKL first)

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/120915 ... fog-clears
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:36 am

DavidJ08 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
Sounds like some services have been informed that its likely we'll be extending level 4 for another couple of weeks, by the way some services are now making moves.

But even at level 3, there won't be flights to all destinations... Stuff article today saying that not until Level 2 will Air NZ be required to fly to every destination (per the 900m loan agreement with the government).
Source: https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/120 ... ic-airline

Happy to eat my hat later on, but I'm seeing more general pessimism on the post-COVID climate, and potentially some "clean house" moves contemplated before but brought to action by COVID. ("Airways chief executive Graeme Sumner said the locations under review were those where air traffic had been low even before the outbreak." - this said to me that those locations were already not optimistic before, but have become completely unsustainable given the expected lasting impacts of COVID.)


Ports can still have flights without a manned tower I believe or there is some work being done around this. Maybe it's the virtual tower thing.

Either way Airways have struggled with resources of late and having someone in a tower clearing flight schools and so forth is a waste of resource and money.

It's looking like NZ will drop some domestic ports at least in the short term by the looks though.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:44 am

wstakl wrote:
Is it odd that NZ are still allowing international bookings in these uncertain times? I need to get to Japan in October and December and can still book online.


It's a hard one. One one hand, no one has closed the border and you're prepared to, and need to operate, if allowed. (bearing in mind being a responsible corporate at the time like this so guided by Ministry of Heath).

If the border is open, you will have wanted sales open. You don't be given an extra loan to operate empty once the flights start flying again.

If it's so unlikely why don't they close it?

Buy refundable or wait! that's my advise.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:51 am

Sad day for the New Zealand airline industry - 1460 Cabin Crew at NZ togo, on top of the 500 from the VA New Zealand base.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/120946954/cronavirus-reports-that-1450-air-nz-cabin-crew-jobs-to-go-amid-airlines-covid19-hit

777/787 - 950
A320 - 300
ATR/Q300 - 210


Sounds like the 77E's gone, alone with the Q300s?
 
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SelandiaBaru
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:40 am

NZ6 wrote:
Ports can still have flights without a manned tower I believe or there is some work being done around this. Maybe it's the virtual tower thing.

Either way Airways have struggled with resources of late and having someone in a tower clearing flight schools and so forth is a waste of resource and money.

It's looking like NZ will drop some domestic ports at least in the short term by the looks though.


They can and do but it does limit the efficiency and adds a level of risk when the number of movements reaches a certain level. The virtual tower thing is still a way off and even then there is the potential in a reduction in efficiency the way they want to operate that (all being equal and if movements return to something approaching pre-Covid-19 levels).

Clearing flight schools might seem like a waste of resource and money but that doesn't really matter when you are having to make evasive manoeuvres to save the lives of 50 or 68 passengers. Uncontrolled aerodrome operations are right up there on the risk martix.

This is very much a shot across the bow. But let's not discount the real effect it will have on safety, there's a reason we have thankfully avoided accidents on the Dash and ATR and proper ATC plays a part in that.
 
darrellpearce
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:43 am

Just to correct you all on the ATR 72 500'S there are 6 that are stored. Not 7 as pointed out in the post. ZK-MCO belongs to Air Chathams. The remaining 6 ATR 72-500'S are ZK-MCB, ZK-MCC, ZK-MCJ, ZK-MCP, ZK-MCU, ZK-MCY are the only ones stored waiting for new owners.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:51 am

darrellpearce wrote:
Just to correct you all on the ATR 72 500'S there are 6 that are stored. Not 7 as pointed out in the post. ZK-MCO belongs to Air Chathams. The remaining 6 ATR 72-500'S are ZK-MCB, ZK-MCC, ZK-MCJ, ZK-MCP, ZK-MCU, ZK-MCY are the only ones stored waiting for new owners.


Those -500s biggest lifeline will be if they get converted to freighters for the regional routes, other than in the current climate there fate is likely going to an coke can.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:03 am

NZ6 wrote:
While a slightly different business need. It begs the question. If WLG can grow post COVID-19 why is it so infeasible for AKL to do the same.

WLG will only pull long haul flights once AKL is nearing meaningful capacity or as an alternative while in addition to AKL. (i.e it's highly unlikely we will see a new carrier in WLG without having a presence in AKL first)

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/120915 ... fog-clears


If WLG can grow, hmm it’s an interesting one, I’ve never really thought the runway would be extended, the way things were going before Covid 19, had things had continued at the rate they were going maybe it would have been feasible with a longer runway that 2-3 airlines may have looked at WLG from Asia, SQ from SIN non stop, and maybe carriers like CX, CZ. Now I feel things are back to square 1, will SQ return Via MEL? There was some deal with the council for how many years?

I agree any long haul flights to WLG would certainly be by airlines well established in AKL.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:07 am

I wonder since it seems likely the new domestic terminal at AKL will be delayed again, which at least will give some room with the current downturn. Will NZ at some point look to run an A320 from CHC and WLG even again from the international terminal for international connections? There will be room for a while at International to do that you would think without having to use buses.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:15 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
I wonder since it seems likely the new domestic terminal at AKL will be delayed again, which at least will give some room with the current downturn. Will NZ at some point look to run an A320 from CHC and WLG even again from the international terminal for international connections? There will be room for a while at International to do that you would think without having to use buses.


Over the next 18months the current domestic terminal could probably shut-up shop, with Pier A being Domestic and Pier B being International.
 
NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:28 am

Looks like Air NZ will have to fly to all 20 domestic destinations for the next two years the period of the government loan. Even if they lose money on many of the thin routes. Hopefully demand will recover as currently only at 1% the forward bookings are showing. But will take time.

But it is an election year. And the last thing the Government wanted was to hand out almost a billion dollars worth of taxpayer cash, then face the prospect of the airline pulling out of some regions.



https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/120 ... 8GM211UNfw
 
zkeoj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:33 pm

SelandiaBaru wrote:
NZ6 wrote:

Clearing flight schools might seem like a waste of resource and money but that doesn't really matter when you are having to make evasive manoeuvres to save the lives of 50 or 68 passengers. Uncontrolled aerodrome operations are right up there on the risk martix.



This. Also, it is important for future pilots to learn communications with the tower. And, towers still do visual "inspections", for example if landing gear won't retract or deploy and the pilot does a fly-by to see whether this is just an indicator issue, or indeed a problem wit the gear...
 
zkeoj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:34 pm

NZ516 wrote:
Looks like Air NZ will have to fly to all 20 domestic destinations for the next two years the period of the government loan. Even if they lose money on many of the thin routes. Hopefully demand will recover as currently only at 1% the forward bookings are showing. But will take time.

But it is an election year. And the last thing the Government wanted was to hand out almost a billion dollars worth of taxpayer cash, then face the prospect of the airline pulling out of some regions.



https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/120 ... 8GM211UNfw


Shane Jones will make sure that won't happen :sarcastic:
 
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qf789
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:26 am

Swiss 77W seen below departing AKL on its repatriation flight

Image

https://twitter.com/FlySWISS/status/124 ... 50913?s=20
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qf789
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:08 am

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qf789
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:22 am

Yesterday NZ had 373 passengers booked on 14 domestic flights

https://twitter.com/CamWallace_NZ/statu ... 44864?s=20

Meanwhile the HKG-AKL had 64 passengers booked with only 2 turning up for the flight

https://twitter.com/CamWallace_NZ/statu ... 38816?s=20
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qf789
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:37 am

Swiss 77W pushing back at AKL with 2 LH A388's in the background

Image

https://twitter.com/LX_Newsroom/status/ ... 07523?s=20
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qf789
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:48 am

Lufthansa A388 did a flyover on departing AKL

Image

https://twitter.com/MichaelFieldNZ/stat ... 83489?s=20
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NZ516
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:59 pm

zkncj wrote:
Sad day for the New Zealand airline industry - 1460 Cabin Crew at NZ togo, on top of the 500 from the VA New Zealand base.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/120946954/cronavirus-reports-that-1450-air-nz-cabin-crew-jobs-to-go-amid-airlines-covid19-hit

777/787 - 950
A320 - 300
ATR/Q300 - 210


Sounds like the 77E's gone, alone with the Q300s?


What would be very interesting to know is how many crew members are currently working on each type of aircraft. So with the reductions announced one will be able to see the dramatic change of flying. For example the wide body crew loosing 900 positions what did it start with. They might soon have 75% less in headcount going forward. Even the regional crew are heavily affected might be up to half going. It's a very sad situation for everyone who have now lost their careers. Who won't find new jobs so easily in the current state of the economy.
 
aerokiwi
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:27 pm

qf789 wrote:
Swiss 77W pushing back at AKL with 2 LH A388's in the background

Image

https://twitter.com/LX_Newsroom/status/ ... 07523?s=20


Wow. Just... wow! A Swiss 77W and two - TWO! - LH A380s at AKL. Just amazing. But weirdly, a sight you kinda hope never to see again.

Has AKL announced whether they're going to start shuttering some parts of the airport yet? I may have missed that.
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:19 pm

NZ516 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
Sad day for the New Zealand airline industry - 1460 Cabin Crew at NZ togo, on top of the 500 from the VA New Zealand base.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/120946954/cronavirus-reports-that-1450-air-nz-cabin-crew-jobs-to-go-amid-airlines-covid19-hit

777/787 - 950
A320 - 300
ATR/Q300 - 210


Sounds like the 77E's gone, alone with the Q300s?


What would be very interesting to know is how many crew members are currently working on each type of aircraft. So with the reductions announced one will be able to see the dramatic change of flying. For example the wide body crew loosing 900 positions what did it start with. They might soon have 75% less in headcount going forward. Even the regional crew are heavily affected might be up to half going. It's a very sad situation for everyone who have now lost their careers. Who won't find new jobs so easily in the current state of the economy.


If say you averaged out the 900 at 12 per shift, that is around 75 shifts in theory.

Maybe around 15-20 aircraft gone?
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:23 pm

zkncj wrote:
Sad day for the New Zealand airline industry - 1460 Cabin Crew at NZ togo, on top of the 500 from the VA New Zealand base.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/120946954/cronavirus-reports-that-1450-air-nz-cabin-crew-jobs-to-go-amid-airlines-covid19-hit

777/787 - 950
A320 - 300
ATR/Q300 - 210


Sounds like the 77E's gone, alone with the Q300s?


What we do know is, long haul or widebody crew won't be required for sometime. Or at least anywhere near the numbers they had.

A320 won't be impacted as badly due to the potential for domestic and fingers crossed short-haul flights in the near future albeit heavily reduced. Regional flights reduced for sometime as well.

The airline is saying they simply can't pay wages for these staff who simply don't have the work. That's partly why you see so many widebody numbers.

They have an avenue back into the airline in due course, however, I just wish there was some law which prevented the airline taking this step and instead allowed them to be stepped down without pay until X date. Meaning the airline had to take them back and go through a proper restructure process once the new normal was known.

I can see this being a process where the airline can essentially play god with the staff they want back if they do.

As for the 77E's it's the natural choice to shrink your fleet... time will tell if it's all of them and for good or not.
 
NZ6
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:37 pm

zkncj wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
Sad day for the New Zealand airline industry - 1460 Cabin Crew at NZ togo, on top of the 500 from the VA New Zealand base.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/120946954/cronavirus-reports-that-1450-air-nz-cabin-crew-jobs-to-go-amid-airlines-covid19-hit

777/787 - 950
A320 - 300
ATR/Q300 - 210


Sounds like the 77E's gone, alone with the Q300s?


What would be very interesting to know is how many crew members are currently working on each type of aircraft. So with the reductions announced one will be able to see the dramatic change of flying. For example the wide body crew loosing 900 positions what did it start with. They might soon have 75% less in headcount going forward. Even the regional crew are heavily affected might be up to half going. It's a very sad situation for everyone who have now lost their careers. Who won't find new jobs so easily in the current state of the economy.


If say you averaged out the 900 at 12 per shift, that is around 75 shifts in theory.

Maybe around 15-20 aircraft gone?


Getting into very dangerous assumptions here.

Don't get caught up in being bogged down with assumptions or "joining the dots" incorrectly.

The airline (rightly or wrongly) is trying to draw out their lifespan with the money they have and (I believe) is reluctant to use the loan money where they can.

They're spending millions in wages for staff who essentially have no work and won't do for some time. The airline (rightly or wrongly) are in my opinion offloading staff to save money with the intent to rehire in due course when their work returns.

Don't directly draw a line between crew numbers and future fleet size. It's highly likely you'll end up on the wrong number.

Speculation is, if the airline used the loan money many more jobs would be saved. I can't 100% confirm how accurate this is as only Exco would know with any certainty, however, that's the word out of several unions. What's the truth... who knows.
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:16 pm

Another fly-past from a Lufthansa A380 over Auckland this morning: https://www.flightradar24.com/DLH357/24585f22

(Sorry didn't get any photos but no doubt they will appear)

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:25 pm

Looks like NZ current has an 789 on the way to ICN as NZ1943 cargo flight?

On an general rule are the NZ6XXX passenger flights, and the NZ1XXXX cargo flights?

It seems the 789 and 77W’s are still being kept very busy with Cargo/Passengers Charters at the moment.
 
zkeoj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:38 pm

zkncj wrote:
Looks like NZ current has an 789 on the way to ICN as NZ1943 cargo flight?

On an general rule are the NZ6XXX passenger flights, and the NZ1XXXX cargo flights?

It seems the 789 and 77W’s are still being kept very busy with Cargo/Passengers Charters at the moment.


And ZK-OKR on AKL-CHC!

https://www.flightradar24.com/ANZ6015/2458843f
 
DavidJ08
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:20 am

zkeoj wrote:

NZ6015 seems to be the number used for repositioning AKL-CHC for the subsequent CHC-YVR-FRA flights (which have thus far been numbered NZ1952), so I'm expecting that's where OKR will be headed later in the afternoon.

zkncj wrote:
Looks like NZ current has an 789 on the way to ICN as NZ1943 cargo flight?

On an general rule are the NZ6XXX passenger flights, and the NZ1XXXX cargo flights?

It seems the 789 and 77W’s are still being kept very busy with Cargo/Passengers Charters at the moment.

I think the opposite - 6xxx are the empty flights (reposition flights and I think 608x are cargo?), and NZ19xx are the charters (which I assume are passenger flights).
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:25 am

zkncj wrote:
Looks like NZ current has an 789 on the way to ICN as NZ1943 cargo flight?

On an general rule are the NZ6XXX passenger flights, and the NZ1XXXX cargo flights?

It seems the 789 and 77W’s are still being kept very busy with Cargo/Passengers Charters at the moment.


It will be cargo, hard to say I was going to say the 6xxx maybe positioning, but then I see some flights with 6xxx both ways including IAH, so I would say it’s a mix.


zkeoj wrote:
zkncj wrote:
Looks like NZ current has an 789 on the way to ICN as NZ1943 cargo flight?

On an general rule are the NZ6XXX passenger flights, and the NZ1XXXX cargo flights?

It seems the 789 and 77W’s are still being kept very busy with Cargo/Passengers Charters at the moment.


And ZK-OKR on AKL-CHC!

https://www.flightradar24.com/ANZ6015/2458843f


I would imagine OKR will do another CHC-YVR-FRA service, so positioning it down from AKL as they have been doing each time.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:35 am

Saw an article somewhere today that quoted Cam Wallace (Air NZ) saying that engineers are working on a way to convert a 772 into a pure cargo aircraft!
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:05 am

777ER wrote:
Saw an article somewhere today that quoted Cam Wallace (Air NZ) saying that engineers are working on a way to convert a 772 into a pure cargo aircraft!


Think it was on Executive Traveler - which was referencing back to an previous twitter tweet from him around removing the Y seats on 77E to be bulk loaded.

There an few photos around of airlines that have done this to there a330s. So no reason it couldn’t be done with an 77E.

Event if there is no officially 77E freight conversions programmes at the moment, with the current climate anything possiable.

The 4x 77E that are own being converted to freight could be an wise choice.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:16 am

Is MH still taking passengers from AKL? They seem to been pretty solid at operating AKL in the past week. Assuming there must be an decent amount of fresh cargo ex-AKL to KUL to make the flight worth it.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:42 am

zkncj wrote:
Is MH still taking passengers from AKL? They seem to been pretty solid at operating AKL in the past week. Assuming there must be an decent amount of fresh cargo ex-AKL to KUL to make the flight worth it.


Effective from tomorrow MH will reduced to 1 weekly for the rest of the month, the flight will be cancelled from 1 May 20

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... t-10apr20/
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:45 am

Emirates latest updates

Both DXB-AKL and DXB-SYD-CHC will return 1 Jun 20, both with A380's
DXB-DPS-AKL cancelled till 1 Sep 20, previously was to return 1 Jul 20

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... t-11apr20/
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Kiwiandrew
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:01 am

qf789 wrote:
Emirates latest updates

Both DXB-AKL and DXB-SYD-CHC will return 1 Jun 20, both with A380's
DXB-DPS-AKL cancelled till 1 Sep 20, previously was to return 1 Jul 20

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... t-11apr20/


Hmm, they say that now, but I will believe it when I see it.

If we manage to eradicate Covid-19 here in Aotearoa/New Zealand , then I foresee very strict quarantine/limitations for inbound passengers until an effective vaccine is developed/tested/widely available. That is not something I see happening within less than 3 months. If EK really want to run empty A380s to/from both AKL and CHC, I guess that is their business, but it seems both unwise and unlikely to me.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:23 am

qf789 wrote:
Emirates latest updates

Both DXB-AKL and DXB-SYD-CHC will return 1 Jun 20, both with A380's
DXB-DPS-AKL cancelled till 1 Sep 20, previously was to return 1 Jul 20

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... t-11apr20/


I struggle to see the DPS-AKL sector ever return, it was the backpacker bargain flight over the non-stop. Sad though it was great value with AKL-DPS for around $2000 return in J!

Kiwiandrew wrote:
If we manage to eradicate Covid-19 here in Aotearoa/New Zealand , then I foresee very strict quarantine/limitations for inbound passengers until an effective vaccine is developed/tested/widely available. That is not something I see happening within less than 3 months. If EK really want to run empty A380s to/from both AKL and CHC, I guess that is their business, but it seems both unwise and unlikely to me.


While I support the current stance, they can’t hold fort New Zealand for ever (Unless we’re going for third world status), they will have to open then boarders at somestage this year, otherwise we’re all going broke.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:52 am

Kiwiandrew wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Emirates latest updates

Both DXB-AKL and DXB-SYD-CHC will return 1 Jun 20, both with A380's
DXB-DPS-AKL cancelled till 1 Sep 20, previously was to return 1 Jul 20


Hmm, they say that now, but I will believe it when I see it.

If we manage to eradicate Covid-19 here in Aotearoa/New Zealand , then I foresee very strict quarantine/limitations for inbound passengers until an effective vaccine is developed/tested/widely available. That is not something I see happening within less than 3 months. If EK really want to run empty A380s to/from both AKL and CHC, I guess that is their business, but it seems both unwise and unlikely to me.

Yes, I agree this is very optimistic. Governments all over will be very reluctant to open up to all comers for many months, even years in some cases, unless pax go into quarantine. Once a vaccine is available (next year?) or there is confidence in the "immunity certificates some countries are considering, then loads will improve. As long as there are serious restrictions airlines will bleed.

In NZ's case it may be that the Cooks and Samoa (zero infections so far) are the first destinations to return to something approaching normality. Tonga's in the same category but the recent cyclone may have damaged infrastructure. I suspect Australia will be next, but I doubt all routes will come straight back at once. China, paradoxically, may be our Next big potential tourist saviour if infections can be eliminated. Certainly it's looking more positive than Japan. As for the USA - don't hold your breath. I can imagine any passenger from there coming here in the foreseeable future will have to stay their two weeks in quarantine.

Maybe NZ'S SYD-RAR route could yet be a winner given Asia will take a while to come back? Holidaying in a Covid-free place may appeal to Aussies. Just dreaming...
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:03 am

qf789 wrote:
Emirates latest updates

Both DXB-AKL and DXB-SYD-CHC will return 1 Jun 20, both with A380's
DXB-DPS-AKL cancelled till 1 Sep 20, previously was to return 1 Jul 20

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... t-11apr20/


Last update SYD-CHC was going to be a 77W, better on freight and it’s not like they will need 3 A380s to SYD anytime soon. The 77W is far better for CHC anytime.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:11 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Emirates latest updates

Both DXB-AKL and DXB-SYD-CHC will return 1 Jun 20, both with A380's
DXB-DPS-AKL cancelled till 1 Sep 20, previously was to return 1 Jul 20

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... t-11apr20/


Last update SYD-CHC was going to be a 77W, better on freight and it’s not like they will need 3 A380s to SYD anytime soon. The 77W is far better for CHC anytime.


Yes I agree that the 77W should be used. As pointed out in the Australian Thread EK would be better using the 77W over the A388 for its freight capabilities. Over the past week or so we have seen QR add extra frequencies over operating the A388, to maximise on ability to carry freight
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DavidByrne
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:23 am

Who knows? Perhaps Emirates even know what they're doing?
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ZK-NBT
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:30 am

DavidByrne wrote:
Who knows? Perhaps Emirates even know what they're doing?


TBH I don’t think quite a few airlines know what they are doing, however EK are being very optimistic with their overall schedule.
 
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:30 am

zkncj wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
Sad day for the New Zealand airline industry - 1460 Cabin Crew at NZ togo, on top of the 500 from the VA New Zealand base.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/120946954/cronavirus-reports-that-1450-air-nz-cabin-crew-jobs-to-go-amid-airlines-covid19-hit

777/787 - 950
A320 - 300
ATR/Q300 - 210


Sounds like the 77E's gone, alone with the Q300s?


What would be very interesting to know is how many crew members are currently working on each type of aircraft. So with the reductions announced one will be able to see the dramatic change of flying. For example the wide body crew loosing 900 positions what did it start with. They might soon have 75% less in headcount going forward. Even the regional crew are heavily affected might be up to half going. It's a very sad situation for everyone who have now lost their careers. Who won't find new jobs so easily in the current state of the economy.


If say you averaged out the 900 at 12 per shift, that is around 75 shifts in theory.

Maybe around 15-20 aircraft gone?


Thanks for your estimate number for what could go in the fleet. But what I was really interested in is the numbers in each group to begin with be nice to find out. Say the ATR/Q300 crew started with 500 and we know how many are going 210 we could have an idea of what the change could be. The number 500 is just used as an example I have know idea what it actually is.
 
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SXI899
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:52 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
zkncj wrote:
Looks like NZ current has an 789 on the way to ICN as NZ1943 cargo flight?

On an general rule are the NZ6XXX passenger flights, and the NZ1XXXX cargo flights?

It seems the 789 and 77W’s are still being kept very busy with Cargo/Passengers Charters at the moment.


It will be cargo, hard to say I was going to say the 6xxx maybe positioning, but then I see some flights with 6xxx both ways including IAH, so I would say it’s a mix.


6XXX are flight without pax (ie. positioning or cargo). The 19XX series are pax flights (see the FRA charters for the German govt).
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:57 pm

An Aerolineas Argentinas A332 will depart EZE to do EZE-AKL-PVG cargo run on 15th of April

https://twitter.com/AvionesenEzeiza/sta ... 88289?s=20
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