Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
CraigAnderson
Posts: 539
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:28 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:36 am

More Qantas rescue flights underway for Lima, Buenos Aires and Johannesburg, with India and Manila said to follow.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... uth-africa
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 7462
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:43 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
More Qantas rescue flights underway for Lima, Buenos Aires and Johannesburg, with India and Manila said to follow.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... uth-africa


I would have thought they may have used the 744s for South Africa and South America.
 
BNEFlyer
Posts: 245
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:41 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:17 am

openskies88 wrote:
Virgin Australia will operate a charter from Brisbane to Auckland, Hong Kong and Paris on the B777 commencing this Saturday:

Saturday 11th April
VA9940 BNE-AKL
VA9015 AKL-HKG

Sunday 12th April
VA9015 HKG-CDG
VA9941 CDG-HKG

Tuesday 14th April
VA16 HKG-BNE

The return flight, CDG-BNE will be non-stop.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2666
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:28 am

BNEFlyer wrote:
openskies88 wrote:
Virgin Australia will operate a charter from Brisbane to Auckland, Hong Kong and Paris on the B777 commencing this Saturday:

Saturday 11th April
VA9940 BNE-AKL
VA9015 AKL-HKG

Sunday 12th April
VA9015 HKG-CDG
VA9941 CDG-HKG

Tuesday 14th April
VA16 HKG-BNE

The return flight, CDG-BNE will be non-stop.


Was that filed or something?

The jet is expected to leave Paris' Charles de Gaulle airport later that day as VA9941, making its way back to Hong Kong on Monday 13 April, where it will become Virgin's VA16 Hong Kong-Brisbane repatriation flight, departing on the morning of Tuesday 14 April.


https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... cue-flight
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 11104
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:30 am

Suparna 744F at SYD after arriving from WUH on Wednesday night

Image

https://twitter.com/www16Right/status/1 ... 58560?s=20
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 11104
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:34 am

KLM's second repatriation flight arriving into SYD, this one being operated by 772 PH-BQO wearing 100 year decals

Image

https://twitter.com/www16Right/status/1 ... 20352?s=20
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
CraigAnderson
Posts: 539
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:28 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:52 am

BNEFlyer wrote:
openskies88 wrote:
Virgin Australia will operate a charter from Brisbane to Auckland, Hong Kong and Paris on the B777 commencing this Saturday:

Saturday 11th April
VA9940 BNE-AKL
VA9015 AKL-HKG

Sunday 12th April
VA9015 HKG-CDG
VA9941 CDG-HKG

Tuesday 14th April
VA16 HKG-BNE

The return flight, CDG-BNE will be non-stop.


Has Virgin Australia dropped the HKG-BNE 'rescue flight', then?
 
Ivarino
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 3:36 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:52 am

An AN-124 coming into SYD later this afternoon from CMB as ADB3351. Quite a rare plane coming into SYD.

Wonder what it's carrying, given its come from Kiev and then CMB, or if its for exports mainly.
Last edited by Ivarino on Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
CraigAnderson
Posts: 539
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:28 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:53 am

qf789 wrote:
KLM's second repatriation flight arriving into SYD, this one being operated by 772 PH-BQO wearing 100 year decals

Image

https://twitter.com/www16Right/status/1 ... 20352?s=20


Such a shame that we only get to see KLM back in such dire circumstances, and wouldn't have minded seeing Lufthansa and Austrian like they did in AKL.
 
Ivarino
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue May 07, 2019 3:36 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:56 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
qf789 wrote:
KLM's second repatriation flight arriving into SYD, this one being operated by 772 PH-BQO wearing 100 year decals

Image

https://twitter.com/www16Right/status/1 ... 20352?s=20


Such a shame that we only get to see KLM back in such dire circumstances, and wouldn't have minded seeing Lufthansa and Austrian like they did in AKL.


We did have an Austrian 772 come a week or two ago, direct VIE-SYD then back via PEN
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 11104
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:57 am

VA's T1 at PER is now closed until further notice, VA ops from T2 are continuing

https://twitter.com/PerthAirport/status ... 02497?s=20
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 11104
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:01 am

Tomorrow Qantas is operating 1 flight between MEL and SYD but no return flight. The flight is being operated by a Q400 and going via CBR. For the return leg JQ will be the only airline offering a SYD-MEL service

https://twitter.com/FATIIIAviation/stat ... 35905?s=20
Forum Moderator
 
SYDSpotter
Posts: 882
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:10 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:15 am

qf789 wrote:
Tomorrow Qantas is operating 1 flight between MEL and SYD but no return flight. The flight is being operated by a Q400 and going via CBR. For the return leg JQ will be the only airline offering a SYD-MEL service

https://twitter.com/FATIIIAviation/stat ... 35905?s=20


So there will be more capacity on the 2x daily XPT service (partial coach from Albury to Melbourne) from SYD to MEL than there will be on VA/QF/JQ combined....

The complete shut-down of International services certainly hurt QF/VA, the almost non-existent services between the SYD-MEL-BNE traditional cash cow routes is just staggering. International services are still a while off, but lets hope domestic starts to open up soon.
319_320_321_332_333_359_388 / 734_737_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W_788_789
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1649
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:49 am

ArtV wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Right now there is 1 QF737 airborne in all of Australia


Which should indicate the VA shutdown is as much an industry issue (QF shutdown anyone?), and not just VA is screwed. There simply is no demand, so why fly planes with no pax.

The question is not whether the VA shutdown means the carrier won't survive, but whether it has the reserves to withstand a prolonged shutdown (absolutely it does not) or whether the government will step in to assist (highly questionable given the multiple other demands government will have on it). The government would have to borrow money to pump into VA and would expect to get that back in one way or another. Given the size of VA's debts already, and its previous inability to make ends meet, would that be a sensible investment? Many would say not.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
JRPLANES
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:03 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:59 am

There's an Omni Air International 767-200 plane from Honolulu (HNL) due to land tonight at Brisbane Airport (BNE)

Flight OY6193 from Honolulu
https://fr24.com/OAE6193/24578f77
 
Captdasbomb
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:08 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:16 am

qf789 wrote:
VA's T1 at PER is now closed until further notice, VA ops from T2 are continuing

https://twitter.com/PerthAirport/status ... 02497?s=20


Wouldn't be surprised if T2 becomes a Mon - Fri operation soon
 
Captdasbomb
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:08 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:19 am

SYDSpotter wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Tomorrow Qantas is operating 1 flight between MEL and SYD but no return flight. The flight is being operated by a Q400 and going via CBR. For the return leg JQ will be the only airline offering a SYD-MEL service

https://twitter.com/FATIIIAviation/stat ... 35905?s=20


So there will be more capacity on the 2x daily XPT service (partial coach from Albury to Melbourne) from SYD to MEL than there will be on VA/QF/JQ combined....

The complete shut-down of International services certainly hurt QF/VA, the almost non-existent services between the SYD-MEL-BNE traditional cash cow routes is just staggering. International services are still a while off, but lets hope domestic starts to open up soon.


Don't see a soon before the end of winter
 
User avatar
vhqpa
Posts: 1698
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:21 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:24 am

There's an AN-124 inbound to SYD from CMB UR-82009
"There you go ladies and gentleman we're through Mach 1 the speed of sound no bumps no bangs... CONCORDE"
 
ben175
Posts: 799
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:44 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:59 am

It was less than a week ago people said it would be impossible for QF/VA to completely stop transcontinental services when I brought up the idea. This is one for the history books.
 
BNEFlyer
Posts: 245
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:41 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:27 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
BNEFlyer wrote:
openskies88 wrote:
Virgin Australia will operate a charter from Brisbane to Auckland, Hong Kong and Paris on the B777 commencing this Saturday:

Saturday 11th April
VA9940 BNE-AKL
VA9015 AKL-HKG

Sunday 12th April
VA9015 HKG-CDG
VA9941 CDG-HKG

Tuesday 14th April
VA16 HKG-BNE

The return flight, CDG-BNE will be non-stop.


Has Virgin Australia dropped the HKG-BNE 'rescue flight', then?

VA9941 will he operated by VH-VPD. VA15/16 by VH-VPH.
 
BNEFlyer
Posts: 245
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:41 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:28 am

Ishrion wrote:
BNEFlyer wrote:
openskies88 wrote:
Virgin Australia will operate a charter from Brisbane to Auckland, Hong Kong and Paris on the B777 commencing this Saturday:

Saturday 11th April
VA9940 BNE-AKL
VA9015 AKL-HKG

Sunday 12th April
VA9015 HKG-CDG
VA9941 CDG-HKG

Tuesday 14th April
VA16 HKG-BNE

The return flight, CDG-BNE will be non-stop.


Was that filed or something?

The jet is expected to leave Paris' Charles de Gaulle airport later that day as VA9941, making its way back to Hong Kong on Monday 13 April, where it will become Virgin's VA16 Hong Kong-Brisbane repatriation flight, departing on the morning of Tuesday 14 April.


https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... cue-flight

Yes, the ET article is incorrect. VA will be doing a BNE-HKG-BNE flight, but with a different aircraft to the CDG flight.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2475
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:48 am

With VA down to one flight per day, T3 at MEL is closing and its sole MEL-SYD-MEL rotation will be out of T1 (Qantas Domestic). Skybus between MEL and the CBD has also suspended all operations until further notice.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1717
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:57 am

PJC62 wrote:
How about this. Once upon a time, a bloke called Tony Fernandes started a very small LCC in Malaysia with one 733. Now Air Asia is everywhere throughout Asia. Fernandes is personally cashed up to the hilt (rumor is about +- 600 Mill), and has always loved his network in Australia. I bet you a pound of rice cake that if VA goes under, then he personally (along with his mates) jump at a total LCC in Australia. If VA sells what aircraft/assets they have, then his other mates in Air Asia surely would throw some 320's with mates rates to him (maybe a couple 330’s as well). Boom, Air Asia Australia could be born. Air Asia tag line is “Air Asia, Now Everyone Can Fly”. Air Australia, “Now every Bogan has wings”.
Also just forget that he is under close watch by the Malaysia Govt, they have enough to worry about with MH at this time.

That will be the last thing I want. AirAsia is known for cutting corners and QZ8501 is a great example on that. Although they're big they're not known for getting a lot of profits either (correct me on this part as my knowledge is old)

I bet he'll do whatever he can if he's setting up shops here to 1) bring in cheap SEA labours on domestic sectors; 2) outsource whatever he can overseas and 3) minimise tax he has to pay down here.

And if you ever try and get a refund for any reason.... Well, good luck with that. Waiting for 2+ months are norm for them.

Not something that I would like to see IMHO.

Michael
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 11104
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:13 am

Malaysia Airlines latest changes effective from Sunday

MEL - operating on selected dates in April
PER - operating on selected dates, cancelled from 2 May 20
SYD - 8 weekly A333, cancelled from 4 May 20

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... t-10apr20/
Forum Moderator
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2788
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:57 am

qf789 wrote:
ArtV wrote:
Found some Avalon photos of the parked aircraft: https://www.facebook.com/AvalonAirport/ ... 9080062987


Here are some pics

Image

Image

Image

Image

https://twitter.com/AvalonAirportAU/sta ... 87746?s=20


Amazing photos. Magnificent and just God awful all at once.
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2788
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:13 am

DavidByrne wrote:
ArtV wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Right now there is 1 QF737 airborne in all of Australia


Which should indicate the VA shutdown is as much an industry issue (QF shutdown anyone?), and not just VA is screwed. There simply is no demand, so why fly planes with no pax.

The question is not whether the VA shutdown means the carrier won't survive, but whether it has the reserves to withstand a prolonged shutdown (absolutely it does not) or whether the government will step in to assist (highly questionable given the multiple other demands government will have on it). The government would have to borrow money to pump into VA and would expect to get that back in one way or another. Given the size of VA's debts already, and its previous inability to make ends meet, would that be a sensible investment? Many would say not.


Or the government guarantees the debt, which carries a risk of default but isn't immediately a cash payment from the government. I'm not sure if that would be listed as an asset or a liability.

Debt is also repaid over time, not in one lump sum. So yes VA has $5bn on debt now but $1.2bn of that is due next year, not the full amount. Don't get me wrong, huuuuuge challenge. But not insurmountable with an industry-wide, strategic intervention by government.

It's been suggested that BA, for instance, is just waiting out the VS collapse before cornering the British government for a bailout. QF, substantially more exposed to the international market than VA in terms of revenue, may be following a similar path, though media reports suggest it can hold out a year.
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 2803
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:17 am

eamondzhang wrote:
PJC62 wrote:
How about this. Once upon a time, a bloke called Tony Fernandes started a very small LCC in Malaysia with one 733. Now Air Asia is everywhere throughout Asia. Fernandes is personally cashed up to the hilt (rumor is about +- 600 Mill), and has always loved his network in Australia. I bet you a pound of rice cake that if VA goes under, then he personally (along with his mates) jump at a total LCC in Australia. If VA sells what aircraft/assets they have, then his other mates in Air Asia surely would throw some 320's with mates rates to him (maybe a couple 330’s as well). Boom, Air Asia Australia could be born. Air Asia tag line is “Air Asia, Now Everyone Can Fly”. Air Australia, “Now every Bogan has wings”.
Also just forget that he is under close watch by the Malaysia Govt, they have enough to worry about with MH at this time.

That will be the last thing I want. AirAsia is known for cutting corners and QZ8501 is a great example on that. Although they're big they're not known for getting a lot of profits either (correct me on this part as my knowledge is old)
I bet he'll do whatever he can if he's setting up shops here to 1) bring in cheap SEA labours on domestic sectors; 2) outsource whatever he can overseas and 3) minimise tax he has to pay down here.
And if you ever try and get a refund for any reason.... Well, good luck with that. Waiting for 2+ months are norm for them.
Not something that I would like to see IMHO.
Michael


A call centre can be outsourced overseas and he can outsource many ground staff positions, but he still has to pay high local operating fees/charges. The Jetstar experience revealed foreign crew can only work domestic flights if part of an international tag flight:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-14/ ... s/10107814
 
moa999
Posts: 923
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:33 am

PJC62 wrote:
How about this. Once upon a time, a bloke called Tony Fernandes started a very small LCC in Malaysia with one 733. Now Air Asia is everywhere throughout Asia. Fernandes is personally cashed up to the hilt (rumor is about +- 600 Mill), and has always loved his network in Australia. I bet you a pound of rice cake that if VA goes under, .


Other than the fact that Fernandes and Kamarudin are currently facing bribery charges in Malaysia thanks to Airbus sponsorship of a certain now defunct F1 team.

And AirAsiaX which is almost worthless and they have been trying to create value by merging with MH, and Air Asia Groups share price which is also at record lows and barely has a market cap larger than Virgin Aus.

Tony has more than enough problems closer to home, and with the low oil price the Malaysian Govt has limited money to help.
 
User avatar
SCFlyer
Posts: 577
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:36 am

Also to add, the Air Asia group currently shares some similar financial issues like VA.

Air Asia X's long haul division overhaul (inc overseas subsidiaries) is a money-loser and drain overall, with perhaps 1 or 2 routes 'profitable' at best, whereas their short haul divisions across the entire group is at best marginal overall.

Like with VA, it's also argued that the AirAsia group shoud pull out of long-haul and just concentrate on domestic/short haul regional.
 
dredgy
Posts: 488
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:13 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:19 am

DavidByrne wrote:
ArtV wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Right now there is 1 QF737 airborne in all of Australia


Which should indicate the VA shutdown is as much an industry issue (QF shutdown anyone?), and not just VA is screwed. There simply is no demand, so why fly planes with no pax.

The question is not whether the VA shutdown means the carrier won't survive, but whether it has the reserves to withstand a prolonged shutdown (absolutely it does not) or whether the government will step in to assist (highly questionable given the multiple other demands government will have on it). The government would have to borrow money to pump into VA and would expect to get that back in one way or another. Given the size of VA's debts already, and its previous inability to make ends meet, would that be a sensible investment? Many would say not.


Virgin's cash reserves are pretty good for the size of their business, but yes they won't last that long. Qantas' advantage is it has access to credit, which Virgin does not. However both Australian major airlines are in a much better position than many foreign ones. A government loan that will be repaid is a fairly low risk investment to keep Australians employed and the airline market competitive, and the government would likely make money from it if Virgin survives the next 3-5 years.
 
ben175
Posts: 799
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:44 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:31 am

Right now it looks like QF is recommencing PER-MEL/SYD on Friday 24th of April, with nothing but a one-off PER-SYD on the 20th.

I think the next week will be very telling whether or not this suspension is extended. Does anyone have any info on what transcon loads have been like in the past week?
 
Flyingsottsman
Posts: 798
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:32 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:31 am

Wow Sydney is seeing some famous European airliners come in, it looks like by to the 70,80s when LH, KL and other European airlines use to fly in. Just a shame it has to be because of this horrible decease that's plaguing the world at this time. I would love to see the European airlines come back to Australia again what are the chances once CONVID 19 is over that European airlines might come back to Australia?
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 2803
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:05 am

Flyingsottsman wrote:
I would love to see the European airlines come back to Australia again what are the chances once CONVID 19 is over that European airlines might come back to Australia?

With the exception of BA and maybe TK (if it ever starts): absolutely zero. The flight time from Europe is too long and the yields sometimes less than Europe-Asia where the aircraft can return to base much quicker.
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 11104
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:28 pm

ZNE is currently positioning SYD-MEL as QF6006, apart from that no Qantas or Virgin planes in the air
Forum Moderator
 
waoz1
Posts: 580
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:31 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:28 am

eta unknown wrote:
Flyingsottsman wrote:
I would love to see the European airlines come back to Australia again what are the chances once CONVID 19 is over that European airlines might come back to Australia?

With the exception of BA and maybe TK (if it ever starts): absolutely zero. The flight time from Europe is too long and the yields sometimes less than Europe-Asia where the aircraft can return to base much quicker.


Flights to Perth would be reasonable probably not the east... may never happen but Perth - London is successful.
 
zkncj
Posts: 3809
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:57 am

qf789 wrote:
ZNE is currently positioning SYD-MEL as QF6006, apart from that no Qantas or Virgin planes in the air


Looks like VA9940 BNE-AKL (77W) has been delayed by 11hours, so there often of been an flight if it was on-time.

So Australia longest domes flight today was BNE-NLK-BNE.
 
Sydscott
Posts: 3513
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:58 am

dredgy wrote:
DavidByrne wrote:
ArtV wrote:

Which should indicate the VA shutdown is as much an industry issue (QF shutdown anyone?), and not just VA is screwed. There simply is no demand, so why fly planes with no pax.

The question is not whether the VA shutdown means the carrier won't survive, but whether it has the reserves to withstand a prolonged shutdown (absolutely it does not) or whether the government will step in to assist (highly questionable given the multiple other demands government will have on it). The government would have to borrow money to pump into VA and would expect to get that back in one way or another. Given the size of VA's debts already, and its previous inability to make ends meet, would that be a sensible investment? Many would say not.


Virgin's cash reserves are pretty good for the size of their business, but yes they won't last that long. Qantas' advantage is it has access to credit, which Virgin does not. However both Australian major airlines are in a much better position than many foreign ones. A government loan that will be repaid is a fairly low risk investment to keep Australians employed and the airline market competitive, and the government would likely make money from it if Virgin survives the next 3-5 years.


If Virgin, Rex or Qantas need to be re-structured to survive this they should all follows Australia's Insolvency system. That would allow for:

1. An Administrator to take control of the airline on behalf of Creditors;
2. The Administrator can re-structure both the airlines operations and the airlines debts;
3. The Administrator can set Virgin up for re-emergence once the environment picks up.

An Administration of Virgin is not necessarily a death sentence but what it does do is allow for a deal to be struck between Creditors for a debt to equity swap. So if the Administrator can make a business case for a profitable operation to emerge out of what is now Virgin then Creditors swap debt for equity which means Virgins repayment obligations disappear. That effectively wipes out shareholders but also allows for a new Virgin to emerge afterwards.

So Virgin, and Rex, should both have to follow the laws as they stand and go through the processes already in place to deal with businesses that can't pay their bills. In the current environment, especially given the likely glut in aircraft post this pandemic, this should allow for a dramatic fall in aircraft leasing payments as well. So there are lots of potential positives for an Administration of the current business.
 
moa999
Posts: 923
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:59 am

Unfortunately Australia doesn't have a Chapter 11 process like the US - what an administrator can/can't do is far more limited.
 
Aviator34ID
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:34 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:43 am

I think Sydscott has the correct approach in allowing VA to go into administration if necessary. The existing shareholders have to be the ones to take the first haircut, followed by the existing creditors. Then, as Borghetti said today, the business can be restructured to survival mode and start again. Or not. Forget the notion that 2 airlines is somehow vital to Australia's survival. That's a luxury. We are in the greatest economic disaster for a hundred years.
 
User avatar
CraigAnderson
Posts: 539
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:28 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:49 am

Aviator34ID wrote:
I think Sydscott has the correct approach in allowing VA to go into administration if necessary. The existing shareholders have to be the ones to take the first haircut, followed by the existing creditors. Then, as Borghetti said today, the business can be restructured to survival mode and start again. Or not. Forget the notion that 2 airlines is somehow vital to Australia's survival. That's a luxury. We are in the greatest economic disaster for a hundred years.


Where did Borghetti say this? Would be interested to read his take, especially as since leaving VA he had been pretty silent on commenting about the airline.
 
TN486T
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:18 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:50 am

^^Post 386 - well done, we have the systems, lets use them, no exception, cheers
 
User avatar
SCFlyer
Posts: 577
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:57 am

Borghetti's predecessor Godfrey was also quoted with similar comments in today's (paywalled) Australian article.

"Mr Godfrey said the airline had lost its cost advantage over the Qantas Group and any private or public investment should be contingent on Virgin Australia chief executive Paul Scrurrah forcing through a massive restructure to make the carrier viable in the long term."


Edit: Added Source: https://www.theaustralian.com.au/busine ... om=htc_rss
Last edited by SCFlyer on Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
Aviator34ID
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:34 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:57 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
Aviator34ID wrote:
I think Sydscott has the correct approach in allowing VA to go into administration if necessary. The existing shareholders have to be the ones to take the first haircut, followed by the existing creditors. Then, as Borghetti said today, the business can be restructured to survival mode and start again. Or not. Forget the notion that 2 airlines is somehow vital to Australia's survival. That's a luxury. We are in the greatest economic disaster for a hundred years.


Where did Borghetti say this? Would be interested to read his take, especially as since leaving VA he had been pretty silent on commenting about the airline.


This morning's Weekend Australian.
 
User avatar
CraigAnderson
Posts: 539
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:28 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:18 am

I read the article with Brett Godfrey but didn't see anything from Borghetti.
 
rukundo
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:10 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:37 am

zkncj wrote:
qf789 wrote:
ZNE is currently positioning SYD-MEL as QF6006, apart from that no Qantas or Virgin planes in the air


Looks like VA9940 BNE-AKL (77W) has been delayed by 11hours, so there often of been an flight if it was on-time.

So Australia longest domes flight today was BNE-NLK-BNE.


Flights Stats shows a delay of 24hrs: https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... FEQ4dUDCAs

Flight Aware shows a delay of 4hrs: https://fr.flightaware.com/live/flight/VHVPD

While on Paris Aeroport, flight from Hong Kong should arrive à 10h00, instead of 7h30 : https://www.parisaeroport.fr/en/passeng ... ris%20(All)&other=HKG&comp=&date=20200412&following=0&schedule=-1&isArrival=True

I m bit confused
 
rukundo
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:10 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:11 am

rukundo wrote:
zkncj wrote:
qf789 wrote:
ZNE is currently positioning SYD-MEL as QF6006, apart from that no Qantas or Virgin planes in the air


Looks like VA9940 BNE-AKL (77W) has been delayed by 11hours, so there often of been an flight if it was on-time.

So Australia longest domes flight today was BNE-NLK-BNE.


Flights Stats shows a delay of 24hrs: https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... FEQ4dUDCAs

Flight Aware shows a delay of 4hrs: https://fr.flightaware.com/live/flight/VHVPD

While on Paris Aeroport, flight from Hong Kong should arrive à 10h00, instead of 7h30 : https://www.parisaeroport.fr/en/passeng ... ris%20(All)&other=HKG&comp=&date=20200412&following=0&schedule=-1&isArrival=True

I m bit confused


first link is not the good one, but flightstats showed a delay of 4hrs
 
Aviator34ID
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:34 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:14 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
I read the article with Brett Godfrey but didn't see anything from Borghetti.


My mistake. Mixed up my CEO's :ashamed:
 
Sydscott
Posts: 3513
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2003 11:50 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:30 am

SCFlyer wrote:
Borghetti's predecessor Godfrey was also quoted with similar comments in today's (paywalled) Australian article.

"Mr Godfrey said the airline had lost its cost advantage over the Qantas Group and any private or public investment should be contingent on Virgin Australia chief executive Paul Scrurrah forcing through a massive restructure to make the carrier viable in the long term."


Edit: Added Source: https://www.theaustralian.com.au/busine ... om=htc_rss


The other thing about "Public Investment" is that having Virgin go through a re-structure using our existing insolvency system means any Government "loan" would then have a far higher probability of being paid back. That same "Public Investment" could then be made available to Rex and Qantas on similar terms in that the Government is the priority Creditor and takes precedence over all others. Rex would likely also need to go through an insolvency process to achieve that. QF would likely need to negotiate with its existing Lenders to allow for the Government to have a priority.

But at the end of the day our existing insolvency system can deal with both Virgin and Rex and that should happen before the Government gets involved.
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 11104
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:32 am

Another visitor for SYD yesterday, the AN124 arriving from CMB

Image

https://twitter.com/www16Right/status/1 ... 19264?s=20
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 11104
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:05 am

For those interested on what was on the AN124, it had one large container sized item onboard and will be departing SYD empty

https://twitter.com/www16Right/status/1 ... 89794?s=20
Forum Moderator

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos