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aerohottie
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:54 am

Been told there is going to be a VA announcement this afternoon.
Any ideas?
I don't have any details, just told there is to be an announcement...
What?
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:07 am

VAH's trading suspension doesn't formally end until April 22.

If there's an annoucement today, I suspect it may be related to the recent news articles reporting on the "pointless" fight between NSW and QLD for the "VA mk II" HQ.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-20/ ... m/12151078
 
anstar
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:10 am

TN486T wrote:
^^No objections to foreign ownership, just as long as it's less than 50%. Why? 1. Because that's the restriction QF has, and we need a level playing field (I have read and heard so much about level playing fields lately, so please, no darn arguments about all the other things QF is and isn't) in relation to level playing fields. Here we are talking about majority foreign ownership of an airline in Australia.
2. Transportation (air and rail, I believe, is an essential service in this country) and we (the collective) need to be able to control if and when necessary for the public good. cheers


If foreign ownership wasn't allowed you would never have seen Virgin Blue start up. They were 100% foreign owned when they launched.
 
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a36001
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:36 am

SCFlyer wrote:
VAH's trading suspension doesn't formally end until April 22.

If there's an annoucement today, I suspect it may be related to the recent news articles reporting on the "pointless" fight between NSW and QLD for the "VA mk II" HQ.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-20/ ... m/12151078


God this is embarrassing! and these people run our economies! Wasn't one of the conditions of QLD helping VA was that the other states were to chip in also, if thats the case, what? did QLD expect NSW would give a QLD based company a free gift for nothing in return? It dosen't quite work that way! And then the way/tone QLD put it to NSW to "back off" this is turning into a farce! a big embarrassing farce :!:

Though having said, Virgin do have offices in Circular Quay but I think that is corporate and admin not ops :smile:
 
Williamsb747
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:05 am

Egypt air to fly B789 almost 18 hours SYD-CAI three times in late April

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... pril-2020/
B747>A340>A350>B777>MD11>B767>B757>MD88/90>B787>A380>A330>A220>A320>B737.
CPT JNB
 
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EK413
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Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:15 am

a36001 wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
VAH's trading suspension doesn't formally end until April 22.

If there's an annoucement today, I suspect it may be related to the recent news articles reporting on the "pointless" fight between NSW and QLD for the "VA mk II" HQ.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-20/ ... m/12151078


God this is embarrassing! and these people run our economies! Wasn't one of the conditions of QLD helping VA was that the other states were to chip in also, if thats the case, what? did QLD expect NSW would give a QLD based company a free gift for nothing in return? It dosen't quite work that way! And then the way/tone QLD put it to NSW to "back off" this is turning into a farce! a big embarrassing farce :!:

Though having said, Virgin do have offices in Circular Quay but I think that is corporate and admin not ops :smile:

Waiting to see the other states step in & offer VA $200million on the condition they relocate. Imagine they relocate to WA.


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Sparker
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:22 am

a36001 wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
VAH's trading suspension doesn't formally end until April 22.

If there's an annoucement today, I suspect it may be related to the recent news articles reporting on the "pointless" fight between NSW and QLD for the "VA mk II" HQ.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-20/ ... m/12151078


God this is embarrassing! and these people run our economies! Wasn't one of the conditions of QLD helping VA was that the other states were to chip in also, if thats the case, what? did QLD expect NSW would give a QLD based company a free gift for nothing in return? It dosen't quite work that way! And then the way/tone QLD put it to NSW to "back off" this is turning into a farce! a big embarrassing farce :!:

Though having said, Virgin do have offices in Circular Quay but I think that is corporate and admin not ops :smile:


I think it's unseemly the way that NSW seems to be piling on like this, trying to poach VA's headquarters. The reality is that having VA - or any second airline - is a benefit to the economy of every state and territory, by reducing transport costs and boosting... well... just about everything! Tourist, business, government and VFR travel, as well as freight, all benefit from lower prices and increased frequency as a result of having a reasonably competitive market for domestic, trans-Tasman and some international flights. Sure, Queensland benefits the most by virtue of VA having its corporate HQ in Brisbane, and were the first state to put money on the table. But NSW is cutting off its nose to spite its face, by torpedoing the Qld Government's proposal like this. If VA goes under, every state and territory will suffer, at least to some degree.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:45 am

Maybe the government's tactics are working. It is now being reported that an international airline is apparently partnering with private equity business to acquire VA as part of Scheme of Arrangement. Interestingly report also says the business would retain both domestic and international operations. Who wants to speculate on the international airline partner but if ongoing int'l ops is true, I would think an existing shareholder is a prime candidate?

Whtever happens it seems there are quite a few potential partners and VA will continue in one form or another which is good because I think just about everyone agrees that a monopoly domestic market would be the worst possible outcome.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:55 am

tullamarine wrote:
Maybe the government's tactics are working. It is now being reported that an international airline is apparently partnering with private equity business to acquire VA as part of Scheme of Arrangement. Interestingly report also says the business would retain both domestic and international operations. Who wants to speculate on the international airline partner but if ongoing int'l ops is true, I would think an existing shareholder is a prime candidate?

Whtever happens it seems there are quite a few potential partners and VA will continue in one form or another which is good because I think just about everyone agrees that a monopoly domestic market would be the worst possible outcome.


See the discussion in this thread over the weekend. News Corp media (both The Australian and SkyNews) are discussing China Eastern being the supposed saviour.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:04 am

News Corp rags mentions MU as the "so-called saviour", despite MU's existing partnership/JV with QF.

There was also another report regarding VA International (previously mentioned on this thread) where another E.I. mentioned that they were open to keeping the (owned) 77Ws for LAX only operations in conjunction with the existing partnership with DL (basically VAi/new identity's only international destination) going forward in that proposal.
Whilst putting their main focus in keeping the 737s for 2-class Domestic only Routes.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:21 am

SCFlyer wrote:
News Corp rags mentions MU as the "so-called saviour", despite MU's existing partnership/JV with QF.

There was also another report regarding VA International (previously mentioned on this thread) where another E.I. mentioned that they were open to keeping the (owned) 77Ws for LAX only operations in conjunction with the existing partnership with DL (basically VAi/new identity's only international destination) going forward in that proposal.
Whilst putting their main focus in keeping the 737s for 2-class Domestic only Routes.


Is there a link to the News Corp VA/MU stuff?
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 5:46 am

Ishrion wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
News Corp rags mentions MU as the "so-called saviour", despite MU's existing partnership/JV with QF.

There was also another report regarding VA International (previously mentioned on this thread) where another E.I. mentioned that they were open to keeping the (owned) 77Ws for LAX only operations in conjunction with the existing partnership with DL (basically VAi/new identity's only international destination) going forward in that proposal.
Whilst putting their main focus in keeping the 737s for 2-class Domestic only Routes.


Is there a link to the News Corp VA/MU stuff?


My apologies, was meant to say the News Corp Media rather than the rags (The media being the Sky News/Fox shows).

The commentators were referring back to the earlier Chinese Interest in VA via the earlier reports in the News Corp rags and as the poster above my earlier post mentioned, they were singling MU out. Whether if they had a "inside" source is questionable in itself.
 
Morrofinch
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:11 am

From a sunrise report this morning. To paraphrase the last two minutes:

"I spoke to a senior aviation source this morning. In real terms, taking over VA would cost 4.7 billion dollars when taking into account around 4.2 billion in net liabilities. When you could take over QANTAS for 5.5 billion, there has got to be questions as to why does MU want to buy VA before a voluntary administration?"

Does anyone here have any suggestions to what seems like expensive and irrational logic?

Source:

https://twitter.com/KeiraSavage00/statu ... 35937?s=20
 
Morrofinch
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:16 am

BREAKING:

From FINreview and Sky reports really seems like it is going to be voluntary administration or MU.

https://www.afr.com/street-talk/virgin- ... al_twitter
 
benjjk
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:23 am

The Guardian liveblog says they're expected to go into administration shortly.

What a terrible day, thoughts are with those employees.
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:34 am

a36001 wrote:
Though having said, Virgin do have offices in Circular Quay but I think that is corporate and admin not ops :smile:


That's correct, also Velocity is in SYD. Not sure why Virgin Australia needs this level of presence in two cities, if they're looking to cut costs they should just plan to be 100% based in BNE.
 
moa999
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:35 am

Street Talk article suggests Board meeting tonight with likelihood that Deloitte will be appointed administrator.
 
Morrofinch
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:40 am

Sky just reported just has reported some stuff about this next stage if administration occurs: (Apparently a Deloitte insider)
- All leases to broken
- Management given the boot
- Not one employee will receive pay from 1st May
- A "fire sale" of 737 and 777/ AOC etc to one buyer (wether that be a joint buyer or a single buyer or group buyer)

BUT- Sky are still sticking to the story that MU are still in with a chance at the board meeting tonight.
 
Pcoder
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:46 am

I'm wonder would happen with the Velocity points as velocity is its own company. Usually in these circumstances, people would lose their points, but i'm wondering since it is it's own company would they be safer?
 
Obzerva
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:51 am

Pcoder wrote:
I'm wonder would happen with the Velocity points as velocity is its own company. Usually in these circumstances, people would lose their points, but i'm wondering since it is it's own company would they be safer?


I just redeemed a token gift card, just in case...
 
xiaotung
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:54 am

It seems everyone is so pessimistic. A new company could still emerge from administration, right? It's obvious VA does not lack interested parties. What the voluntary administration does is to wipe out debt and existing shareholders. So this is not Ansett and all is not lost.
 
Pcoder
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:56 am

Obzerva wrote:
Pcoder wrote:
I'm wonder would happen with the Velocity points as velocity is its own company. Usually in these circumstances, people would lose their points, but i'm wondering since it is it's own company would they be safer?


I just redeemed a token gift card, just in case...


Yeah, I have redeemed a gift card just in case, so I don't lose everything. There' s is a bit of a thought if someone does buy the airline, you wouldn't want to piss off the customer base by getting rid of all the points customers had accrued.
 
DeltaB717
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:57 am

tullamarine wrote:
Maybe the government's tactics are working. It is now being reported that an international airline is apparently partnering with private equity business to acquire VA as part of Scheme of Arrangement. Interestingly report also says the business would retain both domestic and international operations. Who wants to speculate on the international airline partner but if ongoing int'l ops is true, I would think an existing shareholder is a prime candidate?

Whtever happens it seems there are quite a few potential partners and VA will continue in one form or another which is good because I think just about everyone agrees that a monopoly domestic market would be the worst possible outcome.


I would think, if it's true that international ops will remain, the top 5 contenders would have to be MU, DL, NH, SQ, EY. The last 2 of those have publicly said no, but companies say a lot of things right up until they say what they really mean.

Hopefully any forthcoming announcement is not administration :crossfingers: or, if it is, there's the silver lining of a conditional buyer.
 
QF742
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:01 am

While most of us will not be surprised by the news that VA will appoint an administrator, I really feel for their staff who are already doing it so tough.

I think there is surely an airline to be salvaged from the VA wreckage and re-emerge. It is in Australia’s interest to have two major airlines. I know many are saying on here that Covid will change travel forever. But I think otherwise - people have very short memories. We need a second carrier to help stimulate domestic travel demand when it resumes.
 
Morrofinch
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:07 am

I would like to publicly acknowledge the 10000 people who are going to have an absolute shattering day tomorrow. All of them, from the CEO to Flight Crew to the Maintenance to HR will be going through possibly the worst days of their live and probably much worse than many ever experience. It is a shattering thought.

I know we all like to engage in rumours/speculation/arm chair CEOing, including me, whilst this is not wrong and usually in good faith, I just wanted to send my prayers and thoughts to all VA staff and in particular those on this forum.
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:08 am

UA's extra (cargo?) flight currently heading SYD-LAX- it's a 787-10:
https://www.flightradar24.com/UAL2795/246182af
 
Obzerva
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:09 am

QF742 wrote:
While most of us will not be surprised by the news that VA will appoint an administrator, I really feel for their staff who are already doing it so tough.

I think there is surely an airline to be salvaged from the VA wreckage and re-emerge. It is in Australia’s interest to have two major airlines. I know many are saying on here that Covid will change travel forever. But I think otherwise - people have very short memories. We need a second carrier to help stimulate domestic travel demand when it resumes.


Agree, having gone through the AN experience, it was a highly emotional time. I felt for my colleagues, and other impacted industries then, and hoping that it's not the worst occurring now for VA.

If the airline isn't VA, then there is an airline there that's waiting to bust out of the cocoon, and hopefully as many of the staff can remain there.
 
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chepos
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Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:10 am

DeltaB717 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
Maybe the government's tactics are working. It is now being reported that an international airline is apparently partnering with private equity business to acquire VA as part of Scheme of Arrangement. Interestingly report also says the business would retain both domestic and international operations. Who wants to speculate on the international airline partner but if ongoing int'l ops is true, I would think an existing shareholder is a prime candidate?

Whtever happens it seems there are quite a few potential partners and VA will continue in one form or another which is good because I think just about everyone agrees that a monopoly domestic market would be the worst possible outcome.


I would think, if it's true that international ops will remain, the top 5 contenders would have to be MU, DL, NH, SQ, EY. The last 2 of those have publicly said no, but companies say a lot of things right up until they say what they really mean.

Hopefully any forthcoming announcement is not administration :crossfingers: or, if it is, there's the silver lining of a conditional buyer.

Some politicians in the US would have a field day if DL, who will be getting taxpayer money (a bailout like many other US carriers) to ride this crisis out is joining up with someone to acquire Virgin Australia. Yeah, doubt DL is spending money on others right now.

Whatever happens, best wishes to all the excellent VA staff.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited by chepos on Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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eta unknown
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:11 am

xiaotung wrote:
It seems everyone is so pessimistic. A new company could still emerge from administration, right? It's obvious VA does not lack interested parties. What the voluntary administration does is to wipe out debt and existing shareholders. So this is not Ansett and all is not lost.


It could- and could not. But the main point still is who in their right mind would buy VA for say $1 and assume $4.5B of debt in the current market? Just wait for it to crash and pick up the pieces at the fire sale. I'm still not convinced about MU- I can't even see any truth in it- (fake news?) why would they bother, especially as the Chinese Govt. is no longer encouraging foreign investment- remember the Hainan debacle?!?
 
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Chipmunk1973
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:12 am

Announcements to the ASX today by VAH. Ratings agencies Moody’s and Fitch have downgraded VA’s debt to another level down.

In a nutshell they stated that while debt to repaid is not maturing in the very near future (ie. within 3 months or less), the AU$900M cash on hand at mid March will not sustain current operational expenditure levels.

https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20200420/ ... 9vv5t0.pdf

https://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20200420/ ... pb0fvd.pdf
Cheers,
C1973


B707, B717, B727, B734, B737, B738, B743, B77W, A300, A320, A332, A333, A339, A388, BAe146, Cessna 206.
 
downdata
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:16 am

xiaotung wrote:
It seems everyone is so pessimistic. A new company could still emerge from administration, right? It's obvious VA does not lack interested parties. What the voluntary administration does is to wipe out debt and existing shareholders. So this is not Ansett and all is not lost.


The debt holders will have the final say on whether VA lives or dies. If they have to layoff all staff, break the leases and firesale the remaining assets to return a few cents on the $ for their debt outstanding than there won't be a company after that.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:16 am

Administration is very stressful but it is also the green shoots of the new airline. It was unlikely that anyone would come to the rescue with the existing debt load unaddressed. The government were not going to reward existing shareholders with funds if they weren't going to contribute also. Administration and rebirth, particularly if Australian super funds are involved, gives the government cover to move ground. Unfortunately not everyone will keep their jobs but fortunately, since the dark days of Ansett, any shortfall in redundancies is covered by the government so those employees who do lose their jobs won't be forced to wait up to 2 years to receive their entitlements.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
brucetiki
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:16 am

Morrofinch wrote:
I would like to publicly acknowledge the 10000 people who are going to have an absolute shattering day tomorrow. All of them, from the CEO to Flight Crew to the Maintenance to HR will be going through possibly the worst days of their live and probably much worse than many ever experience. It is a shattering thought.

I know we all like to engage in rumours/speculation/arm chair CEOing, including me, whilst this is not wrong and usually in good faith, I just wanted to send my prayers and thoughts to all VA staff and in particular those on this forum.


I second this - for some it's not the first time they've gone through this either.
The early bird catches the worm, the late bird will be featured on a You Tube video
 
Morrofinch
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:18 am

Some more positive speculation-

RN drive: Apparently VA asked all interested suitors to have a representative to video call into the Board meeting tonight:
The following airlines are rumoured to have agreed to appear so far:
MU
NH
QR
TK
EK
AF
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:21 am

downdata wrote:
xiaotung wrote:
It seems everyone is so pessimistic. A new company could still emerge from administration, right? It's obvious VA does not lack interested parties. What the voluntary administration does is to wipe out debt and existing shareholders. So this is not Ansett and all is not lost.


The debt holders will have the final say on whether VA lives or dies. If they have to layoff all staff, break the leases and firesale the remaining assets to return a few cents on the $ for their debt outstanding than there won't be a company after that.

The debtholders are in a bad position. If they accept a scheme of arrangement they will not get all their funds back but will have the opportunity for some funds plus shares in the new airline. If they opt for liquidation, it is likely they will lose everything as that would trigger redundancies and entitlements for all staff which could be up to $900M that would have to be repaid to the AU government in a preference lender position who will cover redundancy payments in advance of liquidation.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
xiaotung
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:23 am

downdata wrote:
xiaotung wrote:
It seems everyone is so pessimistic. A new company could still emerge from administration, right? It's obvious VA does not lack interested parties. What the voluntary administration does is to wipe out debt and existing shareholders. So this is not Ansett and all is not lost.


The debt holders will have the final say on whether VA lives or dies. If they have to layoff all staff, break the leases and firesale the remaining assets to return a few cents on the $ for their debt outstanding than there won't be a company after that.


Yes, but if there were potential buyers floating even before administration, there is reason to be optimistic as whatever debt holders decide, it's gotta be a lot cheaper for the buyers. It's also gotta be cheaper than starting a new airline not to mention the VA domestic network and Velocity were profitable?
Last edited by xiaotung on Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Chipmunk1973
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:28 am

Morrofinch wrote:
Some more positive speculation-

RN drive: Apparently VA asked all interested suitors to have a representative to video call into the Board meeting tonight:
The following airlines are rumoured to have agreed to appear so far:
MU
NH
QR
TK
EK
AF


So is this becoming a “Claytons Auction” whereby the above parties announce their bids and are given one or two more chances to make the best offer?
Cheers,
C1973


B707, B717, B727, B734, B737, B738, B743, B77W, A300, A320, A332, A333, A339, A388, BAe146, Cessna 206.
 
Morrofinch
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:31 am

Chipmunk1973 wrote:
Morrofinch wrote:
Some more positive speculation-

RN drive: Apparently VA asked all interested suitors to have a representative to video call into the Board meeting tonight:
The following airlines are rumoured to have agreed to appear so far:
MU
NH
QR
TK
EK
AF


So is this becoming a “Claytons Auction” whereby the above parties announce their bids and are given one or two more chances to make the best offer?


To an extent it appears that way. I reckon if you look at Channel 10 a few years back, that is what this may be like. Staff used their votes to win it for CBS and to be frank, Ten has never been in better shape. All we can do is pray that a new owner Airline comes along and is what CBS is to Ten for VA.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:31 am

Looks like it’s confirmed, they’ve gone into voluntary administration.
 
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Chipmunk1973
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:33 am

So with VA being a publicly listed company, does anyone know if they offered a share holder incentive scheme for staff? I.e. you sacrifice a portion of your fortnightly/monthly salary and at the end of the FY you’re awarded shares, usually, at a discounted rate.

If so, what happens to those shares when a company goes into administration?
Cheers,
C1973


B707, B717, B727, B734, B737, B738, B743, B77W, A300, A320, A332, A333, A339, A388, BAe146, Cessna 206.
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:35 am

xiaotung wrote:
downdata wrote:
xiaotung wrote:
It seems everyone is so pessimistic. A new company could still emerge from administration, right? It's obvious VA does not lack interested parties. What the voluntary administration does is to wipe out debt and existing shareholders. So this is not Ansett and all is not lost.


The debt holders will have the final say on whether VA lives or dies. If they have to layoff all staff, break the leases and firesale the remaining assets to return a few cents on the $ for their debt outstanding than there won't be a company after that.


Yes, but if there were potential buyers floating even before administration, there is reason to be optimistic as whatever debt holders decide, it's gotta be a lot cheaper for the buyers. It's also gotta be cheaper than starting a new airline not to mention the VA domestic network and Velocity were profitable?


Would also depend on the administrators final word if there is a viable operation from VA's assets that can operate as a "ongoing concern" while they search for a buyer - aka "Ansett Mk II"

If administrators doesn't deem a "VA mk II" is viable - the wind up/liquidation process begins.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2527
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:37 am

Chipmunk1973 wrote:
Morrofinch wrote:
Some more positive speculation-

RN drive: Apparently VA asked all interested suitors to have a representative to video call into the Board meeting tonight:
The following airlines are rumoured to have agreed to appear so far:
MU
NH
QR
TK
EK
AF


So is this becoming a “Claytons Auction” whereby the above parties announce their bids and are given one or two more chances to make the best offer?

The scheme of arrangement at the end of administration is all part of the auction. The bondholders will control this part of the process though they will also realise they are not dealing from a position of absolute strength as failure to get a scheme up will probably see them lose everything. There will be a few days of horsetrading but it is possible that it may all happen quite quickly.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:40 am

Chipmunk1973 wrote:
So with VA being a publicly listed company, does anyone know if they offered a share holder incentive scheme for staff? I.e. you sacrifice a portion of your fortnightly/monthly salary and at the end of the FY you’re awarded shares, usually, at a discounted rate.

If so, what happens to those shares when a company goes into administration?

I don't believe VA had a staff share scheme but in administration the shareholders are basically powerless and their shares worthless with debtholders assuming the role of shareholder.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
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Chipmunk1973
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:44 am

tullamarine wrote:
Chipmunk1973 wrote:
So with VA being a publicly listed company, does anyone know if they offered a share holder incentive scheme for staff? I.e. you sacrifice a portion of your fortnightly/monthly salary and at the end of the FY you’re awarded shares, usually, at a discounted rate.

If so, what happens to those shares when a company goes into administration?

I don't believe VA had a staff share scheme but in administration the shareholders are basically powerless and their shares worthless with debtholders assuming the role of shareholder.


:checkmark:

*edit* thanks is what I meant.
Cheers,
C1973


B707, B717, B727, B734, B737, B738, B743, B77W, A300, A320, A332, A333, A339, A388, BAe146, Cessna 206.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:52 am

Morrofinch wrote:
Some more positive speculation-

RN drive: Apparently VA asked all interested suitors to have a representative to video call into the Board meeting tonight:
The following airlines are rumoured to have agreed to appear so far:
MU
NH
QR
TK
EK
AF


I hate to be pessimistic, but I feel that was dreamed up in someone's head. If those parties do show up then I think it will only be to look at the books. Only the Qatari Government (QR) or Chinese Government (MU) would have the ability to throw down $4 billion or so in the current environment, and even then they have bigger issues to address (falling oil/gas prices for Qatar, and a domestic recession for the first time in almost 50 years for China)
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
ben175
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:01 am

Surely this warrants its own thread now? A devastating day for Australian aviation that shouldn’t be lost in the archives.
 
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allrite
Posts: 2614
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:28 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:01 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
I hate to be pessimistic, but I feel that was dreamed up in someone's head. If those parties do show up then I think it will only be to look at the books. Only the Qatari Government (QR) or Chinese Government (MU) would have the ability to throw down $4 billion or so in the current environment, and even then they have bigger issues to address (falling oil/gas prices for Qatar, and a domestic recession for the first time in almost 50 years for China)


I have read elsewhere (and I am not an expert in this) that, due to US and other trade restrictions, China has been short on US currency reserves and this has lead to the government restricting enterprises from going on overseas shopping sprees. So there may have to be strategic reasons to allow MU to make a purchase. It is not in China's interest for there to be another HNA.
I like artificial banana essence!
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2815
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:06 am

ben175 wrote:
Surely this warrants its own thread now? A devastating day for Australian aviation that shouldn’t be lost in the archives.



Just needing clarification here, they haven't actually collapsed right? There's still a chance for a buyer to save them?
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2527
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:07 am

Ishrion wrote:
ben175 wrote:
Surely this warrants its own thread now? A devastating day for Australian aviation that shouldn’t be lost in the archives.



Just needing clarification here, they haven't actually collapsed right? There's still a chance for a buyer to save them?

Definitely. It remains highly likely that it will re-emerge from administration though it will be smaller operation.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
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Chipmunk1973
Posts: 267
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:12 am

tullamarine wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Just needing clarification here, they haven't actually collapsed right? There's still a chance for a buyer to save them?

Definitely. It remains highly likely that it will re-emerge from administration though it will be smaller operation.


So just 738s for domestic ops and maybe the 777s for BNE/SYD-LAX?
Cheers,
C1973


B707, B717, B727, B734, B737, B738, B743, B77W, A300, A320, A332, A333, A339, A388, BAe146, Cessna 206.

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