Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Qf648
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:49 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:25 pm

Im sure AJ is quietly partying on this front. But, what if the revised VA starts eating margin into QF territory? Hard to think now, but everyone was raving over JB while QF was struggling with high costs and look now...
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 8468
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:04 pm

As has been said before, I'd be highly surprised if Alan Joyce is celebrating Virgin's downfall as Qantas have (had) VA precisely where they wanted them. A strong enough competitor to block anyone else from entering the market, but weak enough that they don't really pose much threat. The Virgin administration will either result in a highly capitalised company emerge free from the debt that was weighing it down, or Virgin being liquidated and leaving a gap in the market for someone with plenty of cash (China? Qatar?) to fill the void. Either way Qantas stand to face a more formidable competitor when the market rebounds.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 11163
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:53 pm

Swissport is expected to make around 80% or 2000 workers redundant in the next 5-10 days and will begin liquidating critical airport assets as well.

Swissport has notified Qantas, Jetstar and Virgin of its imminent closure of operations.

Swissport is also believed to be owed millions of dollars from Virgin which they believe they wont recoup and seen a 90% fall in revenue

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation ... 39d9586068
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
eta unknown
Posts: 2877
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2001 5:03 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:54 pm

Morrofinch wrote:
Further to my above comments:

"Virgin's administrator says there are more than ten parties interested in the airline, with some coming forward overnight #auspol" - @MattDoran91 (ABC SENIOR JOURNO)

At this stage, it seems positive. Now is not the time to panic that VA will be liquidated. That seems highly unlikely at this stage.

https://twitter.com/MattDoran91/status/ ... 21409?s=20


More than 10 parties interested in the airline I interpret as more than 10 parties came out of the woods to circle the scraps at the fire sale. Bear in mind the administrators also said they don't expect any redundancies- seriously, does anybody believe this crap?
 
81819
Posts: 2008
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 9:13 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:28 pm

qf789 wrote:
Swissport is expected to make around 80% or 2000 workers redundant in the next 5-10 days and will begin liquidating critical airport assets as well.

Swissport has notified Qantas, Jetstar and Virgin of its imminent closure of operations.

Swissport is also believed to be owed millions of dollars from Virgin which they believe they wont recoup and seen a 90% fall in revenue

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation ... 39d9586068


Thanks for posting.

This and similar type events will be another factor of the administration process that will need to be managed if VA are to return as a viable entity.

If we go back to the Ansett days the administrators were still trying to charge cafes with leases in Ansett terminals rent even though there were no customers.

It could be the case many existing VA suppliers (unsecured creditors) will decide to terminate supplying services as this represents less risk. It could also form part of the bargaining options.

From where I sit, both secured and unsecured creditors will need to equally take a hit if VA is to successfully start up again. Remember many of VA’s suppliers would be currently experiencing similar issues to VA.

There is
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2590
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:50 pm

eta unknown wrote:
Morrofinch wrote:
Further to my above comments:

"Virgin's administrator says there are more than ten parties interested in the airline, with some coming forward overnight #auspol" - @MattDoran91 (ABC SENIOR JOURNO)

At this stage, it seems positive. Now is not the time to panic that VA will be liquidated. That seems highly unlikely at this stage.

https://twitter.com/MattDoran91/status/ ... 21409?s=20


More than 10 parties interested in the airline I interpret as more than 10 parties came out of the woods to circle the scraps at the fire sale. Bear in mind the administrators also said they don't expect any redundancies- seriously, does anybody believe this crap?

What they said was they don't plan on redundancies and it would be a decision for a new owner. That is a fair position to take early in the adminstration.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 1984
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:37 pm

The Channel 10 example is the one to watch. Everyone had written it off and it was to be purchased at low prices by a Packer/Murdoch/Gordon consortium and cut to the bone

Im pretty sure Nine and Seven thought they'd have a clearer run with a small Ten, but they didnt and are perhaps better channels* for the community because of it.

*this is a subjective term given the content of 7/9/10 is at best a 5...
 
redroo
Posts: 584
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:28 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:06 pm

qf789 wrote:
Swissport is expected to make around 80% or 2000 workers redundant in the next 5-10 days and will begin liquidating critical airport assets as well.

Swissport has notified Qantas, Jetstar and Virgin of its imminent closure of operations.

Swissport is also believed to be owed millions of dollars from Virgin which they believe they wont recoup and seen a 90% fall in revenue

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation ... 39d9586068


Just saw this. Who does SWISSPORT handle in Australia besides Jetstar, Virgin and some of QF?
 
zkncj
Posts: 3914
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:17 pm

redroo wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Swissport is expected to make around 80% or 2000 workers redundant in the next 5-10 days and will begin liquidating critical airport assets as well.

Swissport has notified Qantas, Jetstar and Virgin of its imminent closure of operations.

Swissport is also believed to be owed millions of dollars from Virgin which they believe they wont recoup and seen a 90% fall in revenue

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation ... 39d9586068


Just saw this. Who does SWISSPORT handle in Australia besides Jetstar, Virgin and some of QF?


Most of NZ's operation in Australia was by SWISSPORT, so that would be bit of hit for them too. Although it NZ is still flying to Australia, but only a couple of flights per week.
 
Morrofinch
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:15 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:12 am

Breaking: The majority of bond holders are likely to block any bid which does not get them larger than a 60 cent return on their dollar investment. This makes it likely that many buyers will no longer interested and increases the chances of liquidation occurring.

Source: Nine Group
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 1984
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:49 am

Morrofinch wrote:
Breaking: The majority of bond holders are likely to block any bid which does not get them larger than a 60 cent return on their dollar investment. This makes it likely that many buyers will no longer interested and increases the chances of liquidation occurring.

Source: Nine Group


Posturing through the media.
 
81819
Posts: 2008
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 9:13 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:55 am

I thought this would be a fair number. If we consider $5 billion in debt x 60% = $3 billion and the current owners will loose their equity of $760 million in the business, a reorganisation of VA using 60 cents in the dollar will effectively wipe out more than 50% of debt. If we consider a new investor will bring equity and capital to the business, a Virgin Australia emerging from administration could have debt in the region of $1.5-2.5 billion.

If I remember correctly, a large part of the unsecured debt relates to loans from the airline investors. Some of the airlines could end up deciding to swap their debt for equity.

We could actually see a very competitive Virgin Australia mark 2 biting on the heels of QF once all of the dust settles.

This situation also highlights why government money ($1.4b) was never the right option. All a government loan would have done is secure the shareholder airlines equity in the business whilst at the same time guaranteeing their loans.

If we assume the major shareholders were a significant part of Virgin Australia’s problems, the administration process is a good opportunity to clean out the dysfunctional shareholders, as much as it is to clean out the books.

The administration process looks like it is going to be a win/win/win/win for the Australian people, Virgin Australia employees, the business community and tourism.
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 1984
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:02 am

Lots of talk about the woes of VA, but if it does come out a smaller, leaner carrier, adjusted to a smaller market (as others like DL are doing too), might this point to a problem at QF? It doesnt have the luxury of administration to allow it to adjust aircraft commitments etc so it, with its larger fleet, might have too much fleet for a possibly smaller market on the other side of the lockdown?
 
Qantas16
Posts: 771
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:51 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:23 am

zkncj wrote:
redroo wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Swissport is expected to make around 80% or 2000 workers redundant in the next 5-10 days and will begin liquidating critical airport assets as well.

Swissport has notified Qantas, Jetstar and Virgin of its imminent closure of operations.

Swissport is also believed to be owed millions of dollars from Virgin which they believe they wont recoup and seen a 90% fall in revenue

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation ... 39d9586068


Just saw this. Who does SWISSPORT handle in Australia besides Jetstar, Virgin and some of QF?


Most of NZ's operation in Australia was by SWISSPORT, so that would be bit of hit for them too. Although it NZ is still flying to Australia, but only a couple of flights per week.


They also handle mostly international LCCs such as Air Asia X, Cebu Pacific etc. They also handle all TT operations nationwide last I checked...
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 475
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:56 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:37 am

qf2220 wrote:
Lots of talk about the woes of VA, but if it does come out a smaller, leaner carrier, adjusted to a smaller market (as others like DL are doing too), might this point to a problem at QF? It doesnt have the luxury of administration to allow it to adjust aircraft commitments etc so it, with its larger fleet, might have too much fleet for a possibly smaller market on the other side of the lockdown?


That's a valid point.What will be the ideal size down the track ? Guess nobody knows right now. Also, despite having deeper pockets, how long can Qantas last before they start having difficulties?
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2590
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:54 am

NTLDaz wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
Lots of talk about the woes of VA, but if it does come out a smaller, leaner carrier, adjusted to a smaller market (as others like DL are doing too), might this point to a problem at QF? It doesnt have the luxury of administration to allow it to adjust aircraft commitments etc so it, with its larger fleet, might have too much fleet for a possibly smaller market on the other side of the lockdown?


That's a valid point.What will be the ideal size down the track ? Guess nobody knows right now. Also, despite having deeper pockets, how long can Qantas last before they start having difficulties?

QF will undoubtedly have issues particularly as their international business wil be virtually non-existent for another year. Domestic will also start very slowly so it is likely domestic may be around 50-60% of 2019 by December with international still under 10%. They do have cash currently but cash-burn will be an increasing problem.

This also throws up an issue for the government. They have been firm in stating that they support sectors not companies so they can't give a US-style grant to QF unless they also support REx and VA2 from within a sector package. There are already hints from the government that VA2 may be eligible for some new concessions; you'd assume QF would also benefit from whatever these are.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 475
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:56 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:11 am

tullamarine wrote:
NTLDaz wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
Lots of talk about the woes of VA, but if it does come out a smaller, leaner carrier, adjusted to a smaller market (as others like DL are doing too), might this point to a problem at QF? It doesnt have the luxury of administration to allow it to adjust aircraft commitments etc so it, with its larger fleet, might have too much fleet for a possibly smaller market on the other side of the lockdown?


That's a valid point.What will be the ideal size down the track ? Guess nobody knows right now. Also, despite having deeper pockets, how long can Qantas last before they start having difficulties?

QF will undoubtedly have issues particularly as their international business wil be virtually non-existent for another year. Domestic will also start very slowly so it is likely domestic may be around 50-60% of 2019 by December with international still under 10%. They do have cash currently but cash-burn will be an increasing problem.

This also throws up an issue for the government. They have been firm in stating that they support sectors not companies so they can't give a US-style grant to QF unless they also support REx and VA2 from within a sector package. There are already hints from the government that VA2 may be eligible for some new concessions; you'd assume QF would also benefit from whatever these are.


I'll be completely gobsmacked if there isn't a large airline assistance package coming. I mean they came up with a 715 million package when things weren't as bad as now ( a lot happens in a week ).
 
QF742
Posts: 200
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:00 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:27 am

I think now that VA have entered administration and sorting themselves out, a further industry package will make its way from the govt.

Re QF and what it can do to downsize, my guess is that domestic will be up and running again in the next few months and will prob get to 80% over the next 6 months. International will be slow, but given QF really only operate core international routes, I suspect that it’s network won’t take too long to rebound once restrictions are lifted.

If necessary, QF can rid itself of the 744s quicker and some of the A380s and A330s. However, QF is a very well managed airline and is less likely to need to make short term decisions to save itself.
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 475
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:56 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:32 am

QF742 wrote:
I think now that VA have entered administration and sorting themselves out, a further industry package will make its way from the govt.

Re QF and what it can do to downsize, my guess is that domestic will be up and running again in the next few months and will prob get to 80% over the next 6 months. International will be slow, but given QF really only operate core international routes, I suspect that it’s network won’t take too long to rebound once restrictions are lifted.

If necessary, QF can rid itself of the 744s quicker and some of the A380s and A330s. However, QF is a very well managed airline and is less likely to need to make short term decisions to save itself.


I hope your prognostications are correct but I feel they are pretty optimistic.
 
QF742
Posts: 200
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:00 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:36 am

NTLDaz wrote:
QF742 wrote:
I think now that VA have entered administration and sorting themselves out, a further industry package will make its way from the govt.

Re QF and what it can do to downsize, my guess is that domestic will be up and running again in the next few months and will prob get to 80% over the next 6 months. International will be slow, but given QF really only operate core international routes, I suspect that it’s network won’t take too long to rebound once restrictions are lifted.

If necessary, QF can rid itself of the 744s quicker and some of the A380s and A330s. However, QF is a very well managed airline and is less likely to need to make short term decisions to save itself.


I hope your prognostications are correct but I feel they are pretty optimistic.


Well I know as much as anyone, so I could either be right or wrong! But it is clear at the moment that things are going well in Australia and it’s likely social distancing measures will be lifted earlier than we had thought. Of course there’s the recession to follow... Just sharing my opinion :)
 
User avatar
a36001
Posts: 363
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:15 am

[quote="QF742"]I think now that VA have entered administration and sorting themselves out, a further industry package will make its way from the govt.

I agree with that. I think the government were not overly happy about aiding Virgin in their current form, a new smaller carrier that is not weighed down by so much debt and owners that are broke and unwilling to help and now might have a pathway out of trouble might allow the government to be more confident to pump billions into the industry as a whole knowing it will assist Virgin as well as the other airlines as opposed to assisting the industry then Virgin going under anyway potentially wasting those funds. IMO :-)
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 3641
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:15 am

The Swissport (Australia) potential liquidation might be more alarming. Airlines would not be able to restart quickly if there's no one to service the planes on the ramp. Their parent company (HNA Group, which also is the majority shareholder of Avolon Aerospace) is in huge trouble with its SAirGroup-type strategy (Swissport was once part of SAirGroup). Is there an Australian-owned company that could fill the void?
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2590
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:24 am

QF742 wrote:
I think now that VA have entered administration and sorting themselves out, a further industry package will make its way from the govt.

Re QF and what it can do to downsize, my guess is that domestic will be up and running again in the next few months and will prob get to 80% over the next 6 months. International will be slow, but given QF really only operate core international routes, I suspect that it’s network won’t take too long to rebound once restrictions are lifted.

If necessary, QF can rid itself of the 744s quicker and some of the A380s and A330s. However, QF is a very well managed airline and is less likely to need to make short term decisions to save itself.

I think your assessment of domestic is best-case (it may be different if Virgin falls over completely but that seems unlikely) and international is way too optimistic.

Only the 747s and a few A330s would be fully written down so a wider fleet retirement can't be undertaken without massive balance sheet pain.

You make it sound like International is a small part of the business when it contributes nearly 40% of group revenues. Looking at its route network when flights recommence it could look like this:
- UK - At best 2 787s a day for the forseeable future
- Europe (largely through EK JSA) - will shrink massively
- US - Depends on when US begins to recover but you'd expect the best you can hope for this time next year would be 2 daily A380s to LAX. Viabiity of SFO, DFW and ORD will all be questionable
- Africa - Probably OK given SAA is likely to fall over so 5 times a week on A380 is definitely possible.
- South America - No idea particularly with LATAM leaving Oneworld
- Asia - The expression complete [email protected] springs to mind. China and HKG were struggling before CV, Indonesia and Phillipines both struggling with CV and may not be able to take flights for a year, SIN was a hub with 2 A380s and 5 A330s a day; you'd expect a best case outcome for SIN would be 50% of this by March next year. Japan wont have the growth forecast but 2021 Olympics will help.
-Sunrise - Probably on the backburner for 3-4 years.

At best, you may see international recover 2019 volumes by 2025.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
Qantas16
Posts: 771
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:51 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:27 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
The Swissport (Australia) potential liquidation might be more alarming. Airlines would not be able to restart quickly if there's no one to service the planes on the ramp. Their parent company (HNA Group, which also is the majority shareholder of Avolon Aerospace) is in huge trouble with its SAirGroup-type strategy (Swissport was once part of SAirGroup). Is there an Australian-owned company that could fill the void?


Yes, though not necessarily Australian owned. The two other big players, Menzies and Dnata, as well as Oceania, though there are probably more. Not sure on the financial position of them but they are less reliant on VA (if at all). At least one of them would be able to step up.
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 475
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:56 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:29 am

QF742 wrote:
NTLDaz wrote:
QF742 wrote:
I think now that VA have entered administration and sorting themselves out, a further industry package will make its way from the govt.

Re QF and what it can do to downsize, my guess is that domestic will be up and running again in the next few months and will prob get to 80% over the next 6 months. International will be slow, but given QF really only operate core international routes, I suspect that it’s network won’t take too long to rebound once restrictions are lifted.

If necessary, QF can rid itself of the 744s quicker and some of the A380s and A330s. However, QF is a very well managed airline and is less likely to need to make short term decisions to save itself.


I hope your prognostications are correct but I feel they are pretty optimistic.


Well I know as much as anyone, so I could either be right or wrong! But it is clear at the moment that things are going well in Australia and it’s likely social distancing measures will be lifted earlier than we had thought. Of course there’s the recession to follow... Just sharing my opinion :)


As was I. As I said I truly hope you're right and it's fantastic how well we are coping with the virus. My pessimism is based on having been through a recession before ( thankfully a large amount of people here haven't had to) and they are terrible and take a long time to recover from. Absent a vaccine I can't see there being any meaningful international travel for quite a while.
 
Morrofinch
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:15 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:42 am

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquir ... 20c60663d7

Quite an article. It is such a complex issue.

Did JB make mistakes? Absolutely

But did he do what he promised? Yes and he did it well.

Ultimately the Board accepted his vision when they appointed him. What would VA be like if it had gone down the original plan? I think much smaller and probably JQ would have smashed it out long ago.
 
jrfspa320
Posts: 597
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:18 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:43 am

tullamarine wrote:
QF742 wrote:
I think now that VA have entered administration and sorting themselves out, a further industry package will make its way from the govt.
- Africa - Probably OK given SAA is likely to fall over so 5 times a week on A380 is definitely possible.
At best, you may see international recover 2019 volumes by 2025.


If SAA falls over, it wont generate huge amounts of extra traffic for QF from SYD, as a significant amount is local WA traffic. I can see QF more likely putting on a A330 flight from PER or MK adding further flights.
 
NTLDaz
Posts: 475
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:56 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:09 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
QF742 wrote:
I think now that VA have entered administration and sorting themselves out, a further industry package will make its way from the govt.
- Africa - Probably OK given SAA is likely to fall over so 5 times a week on A380 is definitely possible.
At best, you may see international recover 2019 volumes by 2025.


If SAA falls over, it wont generate huge amounts of extra traffic for QF from SYD, as a significant amount is local WA traffic. I can see QF more likely putting on a A330 flight from PER or MK adding further flights.


I guess that depends on how much of the SAA traffic is east coast originating. There would certainly be a proportion coming West on Virgin. How many I do not know. Is there any data on that anywhere ?
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 7537
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:17 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
QF742 wrote:
I think now that VA have entered administration and sorting themselves out, a further industry package will make its way from the govt.
- Africa - Probably OK given SAA is likely to fall over so 5 times a week on A380 is definitely possible.
At best, you may see international recover 2019 volumes by 2025.


If SAA falls over, it wont generate huge amounts of extra traffic for QF from SYD, as a significant amount is local WA traffic. I can see QF more likely putting on a A330 flight from PER or MK adding further flights.


How about a daily A380 from SYD with 3-4 days a week via PER like the 743 used to? Probably not that likely given the cost to run the A380 SYD-PER?

Depends on demand elsewhere if there is 789 capacity free then probably a 4-5 weekly 789 ex SYD initially and a 3-4 weekly A332 ex PER of no SA?
 
Morrofinch
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:15 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:02 am

Just in: It is understood that NH has approached SQ to try and reach a deal for VA. It is understood NH was interested in a 50/50 arrangement which SQ knocked back. SQ has reportedly given assurances it will not stand in the way of NH however.

Source: Reuters
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3060
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:39 am

Morrofinch wrote:
Just in: It is understood that NH has approached SQ to try and reach a deal for VA. It is understood NH was interested in a 50/50 arrangement which SQ knocked back. SQ has reportedly given assurances it will not stand in the way of NH however.

Source: Reuters


Link to this? Or literally "just in"?
 
User avatar
Chipmunk1973
Posts: 304
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:10 am

Only thing I found on Reuter’s was the following. Only indication is a creditors meeting on April 30.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKCN224087
Cheers,
C1973


B707, B717, B727, B734, B737, B738, B743, B77W, A300, A320, A332, A333, A339, A388, BAe146, Cessna 206.
 
Morrofinch
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:15 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:31 am

Ishrion wrote:
Morrofinch wrote:
Just in: It is understood that NH has approached SQ to try and reach a deal for VA. It is understood NH was interested in a 50/50 arrangement which SQ knocked back. SQ has reportedly given assurances it will not stand in the way of NH however.

Source: Reuters


Link to this? Or literally "just in"?


Chipmunk1973 wrote:
Only thing I found on Reuter’s was the following. Only indication is a creditors meeting on April 30.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKCN224087


2GB reported it and said based on a Reuter's report.
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 450
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:00 am

NTLDaz wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
Lots of talk about the woes of VA, but if it does come out a smaller, leaner carrier, adjusted to a smaller market (as others like DL are doing too), might this point to a problem at QF? It doesnt have the luxury of administration to allow it to adjust aircraft commitments etc so it, with its larger fleet, might have too much fleet for a possibly smaller market on the other side of the lockdown?


That's a valid point.What will be the ideal size down the track ? Guess nobody knows right now. Also, despite having deeper pockets, how long can Qantas last before they start having difficulties?


QF will survive much better for multiple reasons:

Far better managed. Billion dollars profits recently as opposed to 10 years of losses.

Better cash reserves. Wonder why they never bought 30 787s and 20 777X's every year? They were saving their cash for a rainy day.

Lower leased aircraft and owned aircraft that can be borrowed against.

Very profitable FF business that people will still be buying products in (big partnership with Woolworths supermarkets who have been making profits)

A leaner VA will pull out of secondary routes meaning QF has a monopoly on them.

QF better invested in the FIFO and charter market which is providing decent income for them at the moment.

The main domestic and trans Tasman player (more advantage with Air NZ weakened) that will be back to a fair proportion of it's existing capacity by year's end.

QF has 90% of corporate and government accounts, corporate players are already stating that holding meetings via zoom is detrimental to good business and they want face to face meetings back ASAP so good for the airline that flies them.

People aren't going out to bars, restaurants, cafes so lots of spare cash, and a big desire to visit friends and family interstate they haven't seen in months so when lockdown restrictions are ended they'll spend big on flights. This will help the new VA too but news at the moment is of VA in administration, so people will be reluctant to book with an airline that may not exist in a few months (ala the revived Ansett that only survived a few months after the initial September 01 collapse)

There will definitely be a smaller QF but it'll be in the international sphere for the next 2-3 years. 747 and 380 won't fly at all for 2-3 years. Doesn't cost much to keep the aircraft parked doing nothing, and their crews will be kept on indefinite stand downs (which is legal) instead of having to pay them a redundancy, again saving cash. International flying will come back after 12 months with a vaccine or when the media tire of talking about Coronavirus. Intra asian flying done by the 330 and EU/UK/SA done by 787. I still think Sunrise will go ahead in the 2022/3 timeframe, that will absorb the excess 747/380 crew so no redundancy payout and a market advantage in a monopoly.

If worse comes to worse QF has the advantage of the national carrier and the Aus government will want an international airline which VA can't provide so they'll lend them some cash to hold them over for the medium term. Hell they may even do it with a restructured VA which isn't burning cash out of industry fairness.

So my thought is most of QF Domestic, Regional and FF will survive and be profitable after 12 months. QF Int will be about half of it's capacity in 12-18 months, and then to a similar capacity to 2019 in 2023 when the A350 arrives.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2590
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:12 am

People aren't going out to bars, restaurants, cafes so lots of spare cash, and a big desire to visit friends and family interstate they haven't seen in months so when lockdown restrictions are ended they'll spend big on flights.

Absolutely no evidence of this. Discretionary travel will be average for quite a while and business travel won't return to pre-crisis levels for ages with lots of companies finding alternatives to travel.
Lower leased aircraft and owned aircraft that can be borrowed against.

Not really much unencumbered. They recently borrowed against the 787s. Given current market conditions unencumbered widebodies aren't much use as security.
Doesn't cost much to keep the aircraft parked doing nothing, and their crews will be kept on indefinite stand downs (which is legal) instead of having to pay them a redundancy, again saving cash.

Planes do have a cost sitting on the ground particularly if they are borrowed against. Indefinite furloughing of staff is not legal in Australia
QF has the advantage of the national carrier

Australia does not have a national carrier since Qantas was privatised 25 years ago. Both QF and VA are flag carriers.
QF Int will be about half of it's capacity in 12-18 months, and then to a similar capacity to 2019 in 2023 when the A350 arrives.

Seems wildly optimistic. A350 order will be deferred if Sunrise happens at all.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
AVB
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:43 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:23 am

The corporate monster rearing it’s ugly head once again.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... alty-rates

Whether legal or not, on an ethical level you just wouldn’t do what they did.
 
redroo
Posts: 584
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:28 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:45 am

tullamarine wrote:
People aren't going out to bars, restaurants, cafes so lots of spare cash, and a big desire to visit friends and family interstate they haven't seen in months so when lockdown restrictions are ended they'll spend big on flights.

Absolutely no evidence of this. Discretionary travel will be average for quite a while and business travel won't return to pre-crisis levels for ages with lots of companies finding alternatives to travel.
Lower leased aircraft and owned aircraft that can be borrowed against.

Not really much unencumbered. They recently borrowed against the 787s. Given current market conditions unencumbered widebodies aren't much use as security.
Doesn't cost much to keep the aircraft parked doing nothing, and their crews will be kept on indefinite stand downs (which is legal) instead of having to pay them a redundancy, again saving cash.

Planes do have a cost sitting on the ground particularly if they are borrowed against. Indefinite furloughing of staff is not legal in Australia
QF has the advantage of the national carrier

Australia does not have a national carrier since Qantas was privatised 25 years ago. Both QF and VA are flag carriers.
QF Int will be about half of it's capacity in 12-18 months, and then to a similar capacity to 2019 in 2023 when the A350 arrives.

Seems wildly optimistic. A350 order will be deferred if Sunrise happens at all.



Tullamarine is correct in terms of discretionary travel. Politicians are just starting to think about allowing elective surgery to commence. Then they will let cafes and gyms, etc, etc. it will be a brave politician that opens their state border soon. When they do there is not going to be a pent up demand to be flying interstate. People will be nervous about catching corona. Business will be exceptionally nervous for fear of litigation (you sent me to sydney and I got Coronavirus). Airlines will not reinstate their pre COVID schedule for fear of burning more cash. They will ramp up slowly as demand allows it.

International is even worse. Weekends in Bali are not coming back anytime soon for the Perth crowd. Politicians are inherently risk averse. No one wants to be blamed for the death of a relative. It will be softly softly in terms of opening up again. The airlines will be drip feeding planes back into the skies for a long time to come.

I could be wrong but i just can’t see life returning to normal quickly.
 
User avatar
Chipmunk1973
Posts: 304
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:55 am

Morrofinch wrote:
Chipmunk1973 wrote:
Only thing I found on Reuter’s was the following. Only indication is a creditors meeting on April 30.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKCN224087


2GB reported it and said based on a Reuter's report.


I would suggest you confirm a source before reporting it blindly. Making “blind” statements without thorough reference or source may be misleading.
Cheers,
C1973


B707, B717, B727, B734, B737, B738, B743, B77W, A300, A320, A332, A333, A339, A388, BAe146, Cessna 206.
 
User avatar
Chipmunk1973
Posts: 304
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:01 am

redroo wrote:
Tullamarine is correct in terms of discretionary travel. Politicians are just starting to think about allowing elective surgery to commence. Then they will let cafes and gyms, etc, etc. it will be a brave politician that opens their state border soon. When they do there is not going to be a pent up demand to be flying interstate. People will be nervous about catching corona. Business will be exceptionally nervous for fear of litigation (you sent me to sydney and I got Coronavirus). Airlines will not reinstate their pre COVID schedule for fear of burning more cash. They will ramp up slowly as demand allows it.

International is even worse. Weekends in Bali are not coming back anytime soon for the Perth crowd. Politicians are inherently risk averse. No one wants to be blamed for the death of a relative. It will be softly softly in terms of opening up again. The airlines will be drip feeding planes back into the skies for a long time to come.

I could be wrong but i just can’t see life returning to normal quickly.


My anticipation and expectation is that whilst there is a reduction in restrictions, that the federal government to continue subsidising domestic flights to not operate at 100% load factor. I.e. removal of middle seats to maintain separation. I would hope that they subsidise this for The next 4-6 weeks.
Cheers,
C1973


B707, B717, B727, B734, B737, B738, B743, B77W, A300, A320, A332, A333, A339, A388, BAe146, Cessna 206.
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 450
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:27 am

tullamarine wrote:
Absolutely no evidence of this. Discretionary travel will be average for quite a while and business travel won't return to pre-crisis levels for ages with lots of companies finding alternatives to travel.

We're a nation that hates being inside and loves to travel. I know people who travel interstate on a weekly basis and are itching to get going again, and I have it on good advice some of our largest businesses are unhappy with the "Zoom" method of business meetings and want face to face meetings and travel back ASAP.

Indefinite furloughing of staff is not legal in Australia


Negative, I have been told that IR lawyers have advised that indefinite stand downs (the term furlough has no meaning in Australia) are legal in Australia if the contract allows for it.

Australia does not have a national carrier since Qantas was privatised 25 years ago. Both QF and VA are flag carriers.


QF is under the sale act and has requirements on it's HQ location and majority ownership to be Australian. VA has UK branding and is owned 90% by Asian nations. It also has no historical sentiment for Australians. I think if you polled Aussies with a question of "What is our one national/Flag carrier?", It'd be minimum 95% for QF over VA. I don't think anyone would dispute that BA or Lufthansa are the UK or Germany's "National/Flag" carriers even though they aren't government owned. Qantas also has political value, no government wants to be the one who let Australia's 100 year old airline go under, it's also a strategic national asset.

Seems wildly optimistic. A350 order will be deferred if Sunrise happens at all.


Why not? QF have a reputation for long term planning, and very good financial management. Aircraft manufacturers will be handing out planes like candy bars to get sales going again. Carriers with good financial status and credit ratings will be looked upon favorably. A350/Sunrise would give them something most airlines salivate over that guarantees profits - a monopoly on routes.

I'm not saying QF won't have problems, I think it's international operations will be hampered for several years, and I doubt whether the 747/380 will return to the air again. But it's domestic, regional and FF side will come back within a year or so, especially against a weakened VA (which will survive if they downsize and make a profit more appropriate to their size).
 
redroo
Posts: 584
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:28 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:56 am

Agree that QF domestic will recover and it will be aided by whatever happens to Virgin (diminished or gone). However I can say that a return to hourly and half hourly flights between the capital cities is not being discussed within QF at this time.

The A350 is an interesting discussion in it own right. Yes if you can secure the financing for it and get a cracking deal from airbus then now is the time to go shopping. However given AJs caution over the balance sheet I think they’d need to see a return to semi normal operations before they’d commit any dollars. Not to say they may not order before them but no board is going to sign off that kind of purchase during an existential crisis like this.
 
User avatar
Chipmunk1973
Posts: 304
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:59 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
Absolutely no evidence of this. Discretionary travel will be average for quite a while and business travel won't return to pre-crisis levels for ages with lots of companies finding alternatives to travel.

We're a nation that hates being inside and loves to travel. I know people who travel interstate on a weekly basis and are itching to get going again, and I have it on good advice some of our largest businesses are unhappy with the "Zoom" method of business meetings and want face to face meetings and travel back ASAP.

Indefinite furloughing of staff is not legal in Australia


Negative, I have been told that IR lawyers have advised that indefinite stand downs (the term furlough has no meaning in Australia) are legal in Australia if the contract allows for it.

Australia does not have a national carrier since Qantas was privatised 25 years ago. Both QF and VA are flag carriers.


QF is under the sale act and has requirements on it's HQ location and majority ownership to be Australian. VA has UK branding and is owned 90% by Asian nations. It also has no historical sentiment for Australians. I think if you polled Aussies with a question of "What is our one national/Flag carrier?", It'd be minimum 95% for QF over VA. I don't think anyone would dispute that BA or Lufthansa are the UK or Germany's "National/Flag" carriers even though they aren't government owned. Qantas also has political value, no government wants to be the one who let Australia's 100 year old airline go under, it's also a strategic national asset.

Seems wildly optimistic. A350 order will be deferred if Sunrise happens at all.


Why not? QF have a reputation for long term planning, and very good financial management. Aircraft manufacturers will be handing out planes like candy bars to get sales going again. Carriers with good financial status and credit ratings will be looked upon favorably. A350/Sunrise would give them something most airlines salivate over that guarantees profits - a monopoly on routes.

I'm not saying QF won't have problems, I think it's international operations will be hampered for several years, and I doubt whether the 747/380 will return to the air again. But it's domestic, regional and FF side will come back within a year or so, especially against a weakened VA (which will survive if they downsize and make a profit more appropriate to their size).


I think you’re forgetting reality in that a business that has confined or reduced cash flows is not going to arbitrarily throw money for an aircraft for the sake of it..

Yes, like any prudent business, QF are being cautious but that does NOT mean they will be buying A350s wildly and blindly as you suggest. If anything, they will be slowing down the process to focus of best revenue returns which means that the aircraft required for PS will be procured over a longer time period.

When you take into consideration the flight yields that QF had prior to Covid, then an airplane of A380 capacity will be required at some point in time. You don’t just piss away an asset now just because it can’t be used within 6-12 months.

Business management is the focus of now, tomorrow, one month, three months, six months, one year, two years, etc.

*edit - put on reading glasses*
Cheers,
C1973


B707, B717, B727, B734, B737, B738, B743, B77W, A300, A320, A332, A333, A339, A388, BAe146, Cessna 206.
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 450
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:15 am

Chipmunk1973 wrote:

I think you’re forgetting reality in that a business that has confined or reduced cash flows is not going to arbitrarily throw money for an aircraft for the sake of it..

Yes, like any prudent business, QF are being cautious but that does NOT mean they will be buying A350s wildly and blindly as you suggest. If anything, they will be slowing down the process to focus of best revenue returns which means that the aircraft required for PS will be procured over a longer time period.

When you take into consideration the flight yields that QF had prior to Covid, then an airplane of A380 capacity will be required at some point in time. You don’t just piss away an asset now just because it can’t be used within 6-12 months.

Business management is the focus of now, tomorrow, one month, three months, six months, one year, two years, etc.

*edit - put on reading glasses*


Nowhere did I suggest that QF will be buying A350s wildly and blindly. They won't, because they have good financial discipline but will also have a plan and if the plan shows viability and return from Sunrise then they'll go for it. It may take 3 years or they may only go for a smaller number of aircraft initially to test the waters, but I wouldn't rule it out completely.

I disagree with you on the 380 loads, the only routes it'll be profitable on are less than 10hrs flying, SIN/HKG/NRT etc but the routes to Asia for the next year or two will be done via 330s or 787s. Flying 4 engined aircraft long distances is a loss maker, and QF can't afford that. I doubt the 380 will fly to LAX or LHR ever again. They really can't piss it away because it has no resale value.
 
User avatar
Chipmunk1973
Posts: 304
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:28 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
Chipmunk1973 wrote:

I think you’re forgetting reality in that a business that has confined or reduced cash flows is not going to arbitrarily throw money for an aircraft for the sake of it..

Yes, like any prudent business, QF are being cautious but that does NOT mean they will be buying A350s wildly and blindly as you suggest. If anything, they will be slowing down the process to focus of best revenue returns which means that the aircraft required for PS will be procured over a longer time period.

When you take into consideration the flight yields that QF had prior to Covid, then an airplane of A380 capacity will be required at some point in time. You don’t just piss away an asset now just because it can’t be used within 6-12 months.

Business management is the focus of now, tomorrow, one month, three months, six months, one year, two years, etc.

*edit - put on reading glasses*


Nowhere did I suggest that QF will be buying A350s wildly and blindly. They won't, because they have good financial discipline but will also have a plan and if the plan shows viability and return from Sunrise then they'll go for it. It may take 3 years or they may only go for a smaller number of aircraft initially to test the waters, but I wouldn't rule it out completely.

I disagree with you on the 380 loads, the only routes it'll be profitable on are less than 10hrs flying, SIN/HKG/NRT etc but the routes to Asia for the next year or two will be done via 330s or 787s. Flying 4 engined aircraft long distances is a loss maker, and QF can't afford that. I doubt the 380 will fly to LAX or LHR ever again. They really can't piss it away because it has no resale value.


“ Why not? QF have a reputation for long term planning, and very good financial management. Aircraft manufacturers will be handing out planes like candy bars to get sales going again. Carriers with good financial status and credit ratings will be looked upon favorably. A350/Sunrise would give them something most airlines salivate over that guarantees profits - a monopoly on routes”

How is that not wild and blind?

China is beginning to ease restrictions, as is North America (not that I agree with it). Tell me how you move those loads with limited slots?
Cheers,
C1973


B707, B717, B727, B734, B737, B738, B743, B77W, A300, A320, A332, A333, A339, A388, BAe146, Cessna 206.
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 450
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:54 am

Chipmunk1973 wrote:

“ Why not? QF have a reputation for long term planning, and very good financial management. Aircraft manufacturers will be handing out planes like candy bars to get sales going again. Carriers with good financial status and credit ratings will be looked upon favorably. A350/Sunrise would give them something most airlines salivate over that guarantees profits - a monopoly on routes”

How is that not wild and blind?

China is beginning to ease restrictions, as is North America (not that I agree with it). Tell me how you move those loads with limited slots?


It's not "wild and blind" because QF have good financial discipline and good planning. If you have the means to buy it and you know it'll be profitable isn't throwing caution to the wind it's good thinking. An example of being "wild and blind" is just buying airplanes because you can, maybe VA ordering the MAX in 2015 even when they were still making losses? Buying into Tigerair in 2012 even though it was unprofitable? Whatever "wild and blind" is if QF having assessed the market make a decision in the next year or so that Sunrise will be viable having assessed all the criteria then that would be a good decision. They definitely have access to the numbers which you or I don't have. It will be a different world in 12 months. You or I don't have a crystal ball and can only guess at what the market will be like. It may be that the virus is still raging and worldwide airlines are grounded. Or it may be that control measures have worked, a vaccine is in production and confidence is on the rise. Either way govern QF's track record I trust the current management team to make a smart decision.

Don't forget the planned EIS of the 350 was 2023. Three years away. I think the slots will be back by then.
Last edited by sierrakilo44 on Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
grjplanes
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:52 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:54 am

According to FR24 it looks like a flight is scheduled by SAA to operate CPT-PER with A346 on 25 April, for repatriation of Aussie citizens.

On SAA site it also gives information of a prospective flight (JNB-CPT-PER)

https://www.flysaa.com/za/en/repatriation.action
 
SYDSpotter
Posts: 899
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:10 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:54 am

Chipmunk1973 wrote:
Morrofinch wrote:
Chipmunk1973 wrote:
Only thing I found on Reuter’s was the following. Only indication is a creditors meeting on April 30.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKCN224087


2GB reported it and said based on a Reuter's report.


I would suggest you confirm a source before reporting it blindly. Making “blind” statements without thorough reference or source may be misleading.


That poster has a track record of posting whatever they come across in the media as gospel. Including a few days ago that MU had access to $80 billion USD in cash... :sarcastic:
319_320_321_332_333_359_388 / 734_737_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W_788_789
 
anstar
Posts: 3300
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:03 am

AVB wrote:
The corporate monster rearing it’s ugly head once again.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... alty-rates

Whether legal or not, on an ethical level you just wouldn’t do what they did.


Whats ugly about it? Its a $1500 a fortnight wage subsidy. So my understanding is the first $1500 you earn is subsidised no matter how its earnt.
 
NZ801
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:06 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:44 am

Chipmunk1973 wrote:
Morrofinch wrote:
Chipmunk1973 wrote:
Only thing I found on Reuter’s was the following. Only indication is a creditors meeting on April 30.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKCN224087


2GB reported it and said based on a Reuter's report.


I would suggest you confirm a source before reporting it blindly. Making “blind” statements without thorough reference or source may be misleading.


Yes I agree. We can’t spend the next few weeks/months mindlessly discussing every piece of information. Some sources are much better than others too. As Chipmunk1973 said, lets look for multiple sources quoting similar stories before posting on here rather than simply being first or having a ‘scoop’ or ‘breaking news’. The best journalists will check and double check even it means being later than the rest. It will raise the quality of conversation on here concerning VA if we can stay calm.
 
Morrofinch
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:15 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - April 2020

Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:46 am

John Thomas is considered a likely option to be the new CEO of VA on the other side according to AFR.

https://www.afr.com/companies/transport ... 422-p54m1d

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos